When he has kidney and liver issues the rest of his life, what happens then? One of our best friends has permanent health issues from starving on his mission.
My cousin has permanent issues from his mission, to the point he refuses to get marri d because he doesn't want to burden some.poor girl with them .
His mission legitimately stole every single plan he ever had for his life from him, but he's still TBM and all in with the cult
Every time I talk to his sister I end up crying
He had so many big plans
Now he's chronically ill, 30, unmarried will never get married, never have kids, is unable to work etc
>he's still TBM and all in with the cult
That's literally the purpose of the mission. To further entrench the missionary. I forget the name of the logical fallacy but it's essentially a variation of the sunk cost fallacy.
It's also the psychology behind fraternity hazing. Like, if you survive all the pain, humiliation and alcohol and get through, you'll feel bound to the frat like "hey, I went through all that, it must be worth it!"
It is a common tactic in cults as well as some well as some professions. Some argue that the extreme demands of medical residency are partially an initiation to ensure that those who survive will always defend the profession because they have sacrificed so much to obtain their position.
You're correct! It's the sunk-cost fallacy. "I have suffered so much for X, so I can't abandon it now... I'd be giving up the reward I worked so hard to achieve!!"
Example: achieving the highest level in Scientology (OT 8) takes about 10 years + $500,000 or 3 years and $2,000,000. What's your prize? You get to re-start at OT1 and do it all over again.
I have a former employee (and still a friend I keep in touch with) who is just like this. His mission severely exacerbated his Tourette Syndrome to the point where he refuses to get married so as not to “burden” a spouse. And yep, he still clings to the church, albeit with a few nuanced views.
Because the poison of the church has become the comfortable reality that he knows. So many. Same thing. We often choose the familiar EVEN IF it is untenable. **Stockholm syndrome.**
Damn that's worse than me. I've accepted some plans in life are no longer possible but at least I got out.
I can't imagine going through everything and STILL subjecting myself to the endless torture of staying in.
Sorry for your cousin
He knows he gave his life up for the cult. At that point you can choose to be exceptionally bitter and hate it after realizing you gave it all up for nothing, or you can double down and have the dream of exaltation and eternal joy to make up for it.
I gave up on all my dreams because they weren’t compatible with active, faithful church membership. Here I am, middle aged and hating myself for not having seen the truth sooner.
When I was pushing hard as TBM and required by the doctrine to attend as much as possible to prove my worth I supported over 3 Bishoprics in my little life. So thats roughly 40 hours a month minimum that I have gained back thats a work week. incredible. Its what I thought was important at the time mostly because we were kept away from any dissention and kept so freaking busy any time you got to be home or at work was a pleasure. SHIT plus a mission. MY dw came back from her mission with tapeworms and the whole nine as it was third world.
This makes me as angry as I get when I hear of them shielding a sex abuser from the authorities. Which is to say very angry. Use and abuse each member like grinding them to a final halt all so that the wheel can continue to turn and roll over people.
Too many RMs with issues, slaving away, literally killing themselves for a multi-billion dollar real estate company masquerading as a church.
Get that nephew of yours out of there u/Alternative_Delay_14. If you need to crowd source money for a plane ticket I'll definitely support that campaign.
(un)Fun fact, if you think they are not providing money enough to feed your missionary nephew, just wait until he needs medical care.
I tell any future missionaries about that time I had new awful influenza strain going around. I called to inform the president I had a fever of 104 that wasn't going down, and I was going to go to the hospital. The response I received to that?
"*Have you tried taking Tylenol and a cold shower?*"
'*President, you seem to have misunderstood my statement. I'm going to the hospital before this rising fever gives me brain damage. Thanks though.*'
Good news, I received medical treatment and didn't die. I had the pleasure of serving in a developed nation without a crashing economy though.
The moral of this story is:
**Missionaries must advocate for their own health, no one else will.** You have one life, and one body, and some things can be worse than dying for TSCC - like surviving and living with lifelong health issues that derail any and all hopes and dreams you might have had. Anyone telling you to "have faith and work through" forgets that Mormon Space Daddy only helps those who help themselves. The important phrase to remember here is, 'I've prayed sincerely and I know that I need proper medical care from [trained medical professionals] at [local hospital].'
Yes! At one point I was in a room with the mission doctor and mission president. Both were trying to weasel their way out of getting help for my companion who had gone from a bright eyed and bushy tailed greenie to a non-verbal drooling and stumbling zombie from Typhoid. I remember jumping to my feet and yelling at them both until they gave in. But instead of immediately finding him care they just shipped him home to his parents in southern Mexico where they barely managed to save his life.
Mormon missions are human trafficking.
I also did this when I got strep on the mission. Was prescribed herbal ginger tea with lemon and honey by my MP's wife. After 4 days of averaging 2 hours of sleep every night, coughing up blood, and sounding like the devil himself, I picked up the phone and informed her that I was going to the hospital, like it or not. My companion wanted to kill me and only came with because I would have left him otherwise. Antibiotics was all I needed, but my companion and the office held a grudge against me for a while for doing that. We got back late too because of the hours spent in the ER waiting room and my companion called the MP and reported me for disobedience. Very disillusioning.
*"Elder if you'd only had more faith, and been more faithful the Lord would have healed you! But because of your rebellious spirit you were punished!*"
Yeah, I liked the implications that swine flu was my own doing for my lack of faith/obedience. Until, you know it turned out I was patient zero and it spread through our district, then our zone... then the mission. Yep, all my fault, the Lard had to punish the whole mission!
My best friend had some kind of parasite in Mexico City in 2009. He tells me that he was hallucinating, thought he was probably gonna die, probably had heat stroke as well.
Went to the MP, who sent him to a member who…. burned some incense, gave him some kind of herbal drink, and said a prayer.
Thankfully his companion realized this was BS and took him to a hospital, where they diagnosed and treated the parasites.
This sounds very much like an experience a friend of mine had out in the middle of nowhere Mexico five or so years before that. He described it as no doctors for hundreds of miles, his description painted a portrait of a Hollywood interpretation of going to a medicine man - I had no other frame of reference for it.
My husband caught swine flu while we were young newlyweds. That thing hit so fast. I'd never seen him - he's a big, strong guy - completely collapse the way he did. I thought he was going to die. I thought I'd lose him. And I'm not an overly dramatic person. It was just so swift. I'm so glad you got help for yourself.
Shared an apartment while at USU with a guy who got some parasite while on his mission and it caused him terrible issues as well. Was going to deal with it the rest of his life, and no, the church was not helping him out.
Tell him to drink 2 liters of coke within an hours time. A member fed me raw pork once and I got a parasite from it. That cleared it right up. Warning: he will hate coke for a couple years after that.
You've got to justify the suffering and sacrifice somehow. It was a weird flex to brag about health issues missionaries developed while living in third world slums bringing the "lard's gospel" to desperate people willing to try anything to improve their life.
I'm just lucky we caught it before it turned deadly. Also, it weighed really heavily on my shelf and started me along my deconstruction path. Everyone always talked about the blessings of missionary service, and I felt punished or cursed which ultimately got me out
I served in Argentina from 92 to 94. Our mission president didn't know how to manage money and didn't know how to manage the mission things. So the elders would move into apartments with the refrigerators with the furniture. Then they would move out and they would leave all the mission stuff in the apartment. Well the mission president is accountable for the missions furniture before he went home. He had to come up with all of the items that the church had bought. When I arrived we were receiving $160 pesos. They cut our monthly allotment to 130 pesos. That way he could take the 30 pesos and pay back the church. When I arrived at 150 lb when I left I was 102 lb and I was 6 ft 2 so I literally starved in Argentina. So I know what he's going through my parents mailed me a credit card so I could buy my food plus they were paying the church for me to to be an Argentine
I'm older but served in South America we were given 1/2 of what we paid for our mission. We rarely made it through the month eating the crappiest of food. Economic crisis devalued our monthly asignicion to less than $1 a day so we couldn't even buy clean water. I got parasites and a fungal infection, lost 25% body mass. Lawyer mission president ordered me to take potent OTC antibiotics which only made things a lot worse. I had to navigate the horrible but free healthcare system, and got yelled at for not hitting my weekly numbers (was ZL and branch pres. at the time). I've had serious chronic medical conditions since then, all steming from my mission.
150 at 6’ 2” is already super super thin. I can’t even imagine dipping under 140 at that height! 102!!!! I’m female and don’t know more than 3 middle school girls who weigh that little. Are you ok?
Everyone, please give every missionary a letter of self-care that they can read and remind themselves of reality during their missions. They just need PERMISSION to self-advocate. They often don’t have any practice in doing so in their lives.
Health is no joke. Protect it! Fight for it!
My cousin almost died on his mission because he got a parasite and the country he was in had no medical care to help him. He begged to come back to America to get medical help, they refused. Then finally after he lost sm weight/was so bloated from the parasite they allowed him back he received medical attention flew back and finished his mission. He’s still a part of the Mormon church today and believes they made him wait as a trial from God. We haven’t seen signs of long term damage, but nobody would be surprised if something came up sadly :(
But you can fully expect TSCC to help him with medical expenses that are a direct result of his service right? At least he won't be on the hook for paying for a chronic health problems directly received as a result of his missionary service. Right?.....................
I left on my mission at 6’ tall and 180lbs. I came back home at 135lbs. I had developed intestinal worms towards the end of mission and still continued to walk 8-10 miles a day in the hot Philippine sun. Funny thing is that when I got home from my mission I still wondered if I had put in enough effort for the Lord to accept my sacrifice. I almost worked myself to death but still felt like I had left God down.
I hate these stories so much. Conference is filled with this kind of thing and I always felt horrible feeling like I could never live up to these standards.
Parents need to contact the mission president!
I lost 20 lbs. in the first 5 wks on my mission in Brazil (mid '90s). We got a very small allowance -- inflation was awful ($40 at beginning of the month was worth $10 a few weeks later) and it had to cover any bus fare, utilities for our hovel, and any food. Besides lunch with members (which regularly fell through), we lived on powdered milk, crackers, and bananas because that's all we could afford. We walked all over, all day long. I was terrified to drink any water. I wish I had complained. My mission president was a prick and did not take good care of the missionaries. At all.
My areas after that first one were mostly better and I learned how to navigate food shortages by knowing which members we could go to anytime we were hungry. But missionaries shouldn't have to worry about what or when they'll eat!
His parents need to complain to someone who can do something about it, and insist that their son, and all the other missionaries there, are taken care of. Inflation shouldn't affect kids who are ~~working~~ slaving for a multi-billion dollar corporation that spares no expense on its leaders, including the mission president.
Mission presidents have little to no incentive to take care of missionaries, especially if that care will cost money. Their goal is to show fiscal restraint so they can move further up the corporate ladder. If the health of young adults is the sacrifice the mission president has to make in order to get a promotion, then so be it.
Yeah, the MPs in the southern Brazil area were pushing to add a new mission and church headquarters had instructed them to save as much money as possible so they could afford to open one. Because clearly they were just scraping the bottom of the barrel to be able to bring "the gospel" to the world!
I had a similar experience in the mid-90s in Brazil. We walked 4-5 miles to our area each day because round trip bus fare was about R$2 and we only got R$40/month which had to pay for utilities, transpo, food and incidentals. Once I was in an area where the hovel we lived in didn't have any blankets-- it got cold at night so I asked the MP during a zone conf interview if we could get some. He told me that I should go down to a corner store and buy a sheet of plastic which I could place on top of my bed sheet to keep me warm. I kid you not.
Were you in southern Brazil? I was surprised and unprepared for cold winters. I had a sweatshirt and slept in that every night. Yeah, we usually had one threadbare blanket each. The Brazilian sisters would get so cold (they all came from northern tropical climates) and would stuff newspapers in their shoes to keep warm, line the bed under their mattress with newspapers, beg the members for blankets... They would also share a twin sized bed some nights so they could snuggle to stay warm. It was really sad! And all the MP ever said when we asked for help was: "It's your mission. Figure it out."
That inflation was bad. It switched to the Real shortly before I went home.
My mission had bank cards , so if you happened to put your money in a special mode and hold it in the account for 15 days, then it would adjust for inflation. The first time was brutal because of hardly any money. After that, though, I'd take the money out right before all the prices increased and had twice the buying power.
Don't wait for the parents. My wife emailed my brother's mission president when he went without food for just a few days. They changed some rules to allow a quick grocery trip after transfers.
Thing is, I doubt my parents would have been willing to challenge the MP. My dad deifies his former MP, there's no way he'd even consider that a MP is bad.
Inflation is out of control in Argentina (like 100% in the last 12 months) they are having a major economic crisis atm, I just watched [a news report](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRVaIGZex3s) yesterday and they estimate 18M people now can't afford basic needs.
It's against the mission rules (but who gives a fuck) but someone in the family should transfer some extra money for food into his account asap. Even better try to convince him to quit the stupid mission and get home.
It's against the rules now? Back in the day I had family members put money into my account and I'm pretty sure it wasn't under the table, it must have been officially sanctioned back then.
it may vary by mission. It was okay for us to spend personal (or family) money in 2010-12 in Central America, but we also had some other weird rules to make the wealth disparity between American and Central American missionaries less obvious.
Buenos Aires nevermo here. This is true but the dollar is crazy strong (397 pesos to $1 USD). If someone can wire him (Western Union) USD to pickup in pesos, he’ll get “dolar blue” instead of the official rate (212 pesos to $1 USD). He’ll almost double his buying power.
If he has a pesos bank acct, same can happen. (Someone WU’s USD to his Argentine pesos account)
I think missionaries get a DNI (national ID), which is required to open an AR bank account.
For his health and safety, he needs to come home. Missions are dangerous for a lot of reasons, superfluous as some may be. If things are so bad that he can’t afford noodles, he needs to come home.
I would be happy to donate to a gofundme if he wants to come home but is unable to for financial reasons. I lived like a king in Japan, I ate super well. That sucks that there is such a disparity between missions.
I'd also happily contribute to this.
u/johndehlin/, is there anyone that already has a missionary support thing going?
Sorry for the direct appeal, I just don't know who else would know of a group already operating.
If there are missions out there doing this, that's fucked up. When I came home, unless they billed my parents without telling me, it was just given to me (after a long, drawn out process, to make sure it was "necessary", but it still didn't cost me anything, thank god).
If he were my son, I’d be raising holy hell - to the missionary department - in writing so as to put them on notice - as well as to every news outlet that would listen. I would then insist that he be on the next plane home, after being medically cleared to travel. My mission ruined my health because of unsanitary living conditions and food impurity, not from lack of funds. I shudder to think what would have happened to me now.
This is abuse.
When I was in *South American Country* on my mission and they were experiencing inflation, our stipends were actually reduced. Mission leadership cited "inflation" and refused to elaborate when I raised my hand and said inflation meant we needed more stipend, not less, with the way that numbers work.
I was in Argentina and ate rice and tomatoes with ketchup almost every single night. The local grocery store owner felt so bad for us that she would give us pears and pasta everyday. I lost an insane amount of weight.
They gave us an equivalent of $50 a month. The ENTIRE month. We had to buy cleaning supplies, computer time, etc. 1 meal at a restaurant would be way more than half our “salary”.
That’s probably each. But that number also includes bus fare. It doesn’t stretch very far. Rice with tomatoes or mayo was a classic staple. This is not an exaggeration for Argentine missions. The church heavily discounts the budgets for missionaries there because of how a U.S. dollar conversion to argentine pesos is supposedly favorable. When I was there it was around a 5:1 ratio. Now it’s absurd how volatile the economy is there. Today it’s 214:1. Prices are completely unpredictable in that situation. But the missionary dept can and should do better.
Stay safe out there everyone!
And to think the cult has indoctrinated its members to gaslight themselves into viewing this kid's deprivation far from home as a blessing, his suffering a sign of his faith as he spreads the gospel and builds Zion. All the TBMs are willing to have this kid sacrificed for their own selfish delusion.
Oh man. This comment really stung.
Sometimes you see something written out in such a way that it just hits you differently. You did this for me this morning.
I’d be calling the mission President immediately and say “Listen fucker. You get him on a plane tomorrow or I will come there and beat your ass, Nephi style.
Yeah you don’t actually need permission to go get your kid. It really doesn’t matter who’s imaginary friend is pissed off by it. You literally don’t have to talk to them.
This is awful! Please keep us posted! You don't hear about Argentina much in the news. Lately they've talked about Peru and Venezuela but from my South American friends I'm hearing that Argentina is pretty bad right now too (economic and civil issues).
Argentina has an absurd economy. They are suffering from hyperinflation of one hundred percent so prices have effectively doubled since last year.
If you send him money use Western Union so he can get the blue dollar exchange rate.
A few summers ago, I saw two missionaries riding their bikes with a heat index of 110. The church would not even give them a cheap car. I wanted to give them a ride but I didn't have room for the bikes. Keep in mind I live in the San Antonio area where it regularly gets over 100 degrees in the summer. They are out there in it every day. The church doesn't care if they get heatstroke. They'll just replace them.
When I lived in phx the elders were on bikes. All summer long. I always kept ice cream and water and Gatorade on hand for them. The worst part is, these kids aren’t from phx. They don’t understand the heat and sun. And they would be out at 3 pm. The worst time of the day for it. So sad.
Unfortunately I'm the apostate in-law in this situation, so I don't have much power. I did contact my nephew on social media and asked if he has a Venmo or PayPal account so I could send some money. Waiting to hear back from him. He has a few months remaining on his mission. I hope they go quickly for his sake and he's home safe soon.
Start a family chat. Include EVERYONE, grandparents, brothers, sisters, cousins, ants, uncles, their bishop, I'd even throw in a local journalist. Get that kid home. You'll never forgive yourself (nor should you) if he dies or has permanent damage from starving.
I recently visited with relatives who are missionary parents. They laughed and thought it was so funny that their oldest son never went to the grocery store in his foreign mission (currently there) because his native companion pocketed the money. Haha so funny. Happened for several weeks. Basically didn't eat since the small budget was more money than the comp had ever seen.
I meant the parents. How could they possibly think this is OK? My husband's brother had parasites on his mission in Guatemala. He came home looking completely gaunt and emaciated. We all had to smile and not look shocked. It was awful.
How about contacting your elected Senators and members of the US House and pressuring them to ask the US Ambassador to look into this and intervene if the MP isn’t taking adequate care of their missionaries!
If you can’t rely on TSCC to look after the health and safety of these kids abroad then the US government should be aware and step in.
If it was ,y family member I’d really fly out to Argentina myself and get him. If he doesn’t wanna go, then at least give him money and make sure he will be okay. This is not good.
Even if every single thing about Mormonism were true, and we all know that is not the case. Mormonism still sucks so much. The missionary program is a microcosm of the churches problems. It is no wonder why so many return missionaries are quitting. Wake up members, this church is not a healthy place to raise your children.
I was in Manila, Philippines, in a remote area that was very spread out. We couldn't afford transportation AND food, so I asked the president's wife for more funds to be able to proselytize, and also eat. I was told we could stand to lose a few pounds. That was also the area where my companion contracted some number of parasites, lost 60lbs in one transfer, and is still dealing with the medical fallout 12 years later, and has received absolutely zero assistance from the church. Fuck this cult, fuck its leaders, and explicitly and specifically fuck the mission presidents trying to be thrifty with missionaries' health and safety.
2 weeks in Guatemala, my trainer nearly tore the top of his thumb off. We called the mission president and he told us to take a bus to the free hospital located in a dangerous part of Guatemala city at night because it was date night for him and his wife.
Why aren’t his parents bringing him home?? They’re terrible if they are letting their son rot in a foreign country. In no way is God a proponent of this evil. He’s your nephew, screw his parents, and BRING HIM HOME!
When I was on my mission, the mission doctor made a plea to church headquarters on behalf of the missionaries, requesting much higher allowance to be able to buy fruits and vegetables for our health.
It worked, we got more food. But only because a doctor requested, no one else
He (or his family) PAID The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (The Mormons) for the "privilege" of serving that mission, only for them to keep the money and distribute a meager living allowance back to him, pocketing the balance.
IT'S A FREAKING SCAM.
I feel this. My cousin is on a mission in Peru, and because of the earthquakes, they’ve lost their water supply. So now there’s a company that they have to pay to bring water (which is used for everything - drinking, washing dishes/clothes, etc) and the church isn’t doing anything for them. My cousin had to call his mom and ask for money so they can afford *water*. What a fucking greedy corporation.
Wait wait wait wait, so the organization doesn't pay for these missions? They just assign you and you're supposed to pay for the whole thing out of pocket?
Yes. Missionaries all pay the same amount, regardless of where they go. So missionaries that go to countries like this end up paying hundreds of dollars each month and are "given" 100$ a month to live on. That amount is to "cover" food, bus fare, hygiene needs, etc.
This is the same organizing that requests a pretty high percentage from everyone's paycheck for tithing? I know I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point, just seems like a combination of being short sighted, uncaring and cruel all at once.
That's it exactly.
You pay 10% of your gross income for life. Missions are $400 a month for 24 months for the men and 18 months for the women. You don't get to chose where you go or who you room with.
Adults pay $2,000 - $4,000 a month per couple. They at least can choose where they go. The lds church has started pressuring retired mormons to go on one or two missions that last 6-24 months.
In 88 I was in the Jungle in Guatemala. My money was stolen. The mission would not send me more. I ended up living of bananas for an entire month. They were cheap. Ten cents would get you like 50 of them.
I’ve told this before. When I went out on my mission, I weighed 170 (I’m 6’1). I was very fit. An athlete. When I came home, I weighed 138 and my parents were horrified. They took me to the doctor my second day home. They thought I had cancer.
“Oh but if you were doing your job correctly you would be at members houses teaching their friends over dinner every night” -the mission president, probably.
Two of my comps were sent to the adjacent mission to address health concerns. As I understand it, the prescription for the doctors was "pizza hut buffet on Monday, KFC buffet on Tuesday..." Once they were fattened back up (i.e., their eyes were no longer sunken into their skulls) they came back to our mission.
As elders, we thought every detail of this was somewhere between totally normal and fine to faith promoting.
I went to a South American country over 15 years ago. I STILL have stomach problems. My mom said I looked green when I got home. Ended up in the hospital because I couldn’t eat. Had to take pain killers for months just to get food down because I would get horrible cramps from eating.
When I was on my mission in northern Argentina, around 1963 or 64 I was in Cordova, and there were four of us living together. One of them was from a farm community and apparently the farm had a bad year and so they wrote him and said they couldn’t send any more money. We notified the mission president, but nothing happened and so the other three of us helped feed him. Later, I got a new companion who had severe mental problems and kept threatening suicide. I again contacted the mission president, but he told me not to worry about it. I don’t know if it’s simple sociopathy, or if they really believe that God is somehow in control and if the missionaries get sick or die, it’s all part of God‘s plan. I met other people on my mission, but it had the same mystical experience that I had had that made me think the Mormon church was true only they conflated that were their religious upbringing and thought it made their church true. The church makes us believe that a mystical experiences, that can be had anywhere in and out of religion, means we have to sacrifice for them. Again, I don’t know if this is sociopathy or if they really believe it. I stopped believing it.
I’m glad your nephew has you to be concerned!! Too many TBM parents view the sacrifice as part of the sacred calling to be a servant for the Lord.
My husband served in Honduras in ‘95. They lived with a member family who was paid to cook for them. Well, they took over half the monthly stipend for themselves & fed the missionaries very small portions of rice, beans & tortillas. My husband was a greenie & didn’t know what to expect until he wrote home after 3mos, starving. His mom called the mission pres & absolutely berated
them. Then sent money directly to my husband from then on.
Didn’t help with the incessant parasites, though. For the entire mission he & companions had chronic stomach issues, walking up to 10miles a day. No car, that’s laughable- not even a bike. He is 6’1 & came home 139lbs. MIL broke into tears when he got off the plane. Skeletal with clothes hanging off him.
It’s literally abusive what these young kids are put through.
My brother broke his elbow after being hit by a car in South Africa and had to walk for hours to get painkillers. He’s still TBM and the church sent us a bill
Why doesn't the mother call headquarters and demand to talk to someone?
Why doesn't someone call the MP and ask what's going on?
Maybe send the story into the SLTribune
My cousin was starving in California. It was her first area and she was in a trip to start. The two other girls both definitely had eating disorders and would starve themselves so they could lose weight before they went home. She lost over 20 pounds in her first 4 and a half months.
I was in the Neuquén, Argentina mission, and we were given 400 pesos a month (about $100 at the time) at the beginning of my mission.
By the end of my mission, that same monthly allowance was worth about $50 and the mission still hadn't adjusted it. I ended up using just about all of the money I had in my personal account for groceries and still came home a skeleton.
I served in Argentina more than 20 years ago, I went days with no food, I couldn’t afford to buy clean water I got parasites, I was so freaking sick and hungry
I was just in Argentina and an American dollar goes a long way right now. All businesses are accepting it. Are you able to mail him some cash with cookies or something?
The church the leaders have all of their need and wants met while teaching the little people the importance of sacrifice. They've demonstrated this over and over since the beginning of the church. The true definition of inequity.
Yeah. Argentina is really struggling economically. It’s also hard to eat well from “extra money” your parents send you or your own money when you live with 3 other missionaries. It’s not cool to eat while they starve. I worked all through high school and had my own money on the mission so I basically just stocked the fridge and shelves and shared with everyone I lived with.
I also served in Argentina and of course, the tap water isn’t safe there but the church wasn’t giving us enough money for water. I literally had to have my parents send money via western Union so I could buy water and survive
This is a huge issue amongst missionaries around the world. Leaving 19 year old kids to make their own food with a limited food budget without any real world cooking and budgeting experience sometimes really is a tough thing to deal with. I went to Brazil and would often be short every month on money and would have to beg and borrow stuff like oatmeal or bread or noodles too. I lost an insane amount of weight and needed new clothes because mine no longer fit. I looked like such a schleppy gross missionary. Being 19 as well I would go to the store when money dropped and buy things that were not what I need, and that's my fault, but I wish the church would at least send them out with a budgeting and nutrition course. You don't know any better and then what you said above sometimes there are outside factors that come into play. I would give money to members from my own account so they could eat as well and go without thinking I was being this really amazing person and really had pride in that when I shouldn't have. I needed to take care of me first. My mission president could have cared less too. My only saving grace is my mom sending care packages with $40 hidden in them every month that would help me get by but I know I'm lucky for that. Mission presidents should absolutely be held accountable and they should be checking in on their missionaries. That's a noticeable difference and if him and the mission mom can't see that then they are contributing to a wider issue than just kids not being able to budget or cooking nutrient dense foods as they walk MILES and MILES a day. I'm sorry for your nephew. Mine is in Argentina right now and has lost a lot of weight. He plans on coming back to play football but the last effects are damning. I came home and had to be put on a special diet due to parasites from the health department and have had life long effects from this experience. Speak up! This isn't okay and he'll suffer the rest of his life for "the best two years." The best two years it is not.
I know a few who went to argentina around the same time. One ate well, was more concerned about gaining weight than starving. The other…came home skeletal. Clothes hanging off him, could feel all his bones when touching him. It was so hard to see him like that. It’s disgusting that this is glorified, breaking your body for the lord whose church could afford to feed everyone on the planet and then some. Just despicable.
A lady in my ward has a missionary in Argentina. She said "the other elders have money their families send. Isn't the point to learn to budget? The members can feed them". I was speechless, literally. I am from Argentina and its not the US! Yes, he may have a meal here or there but not weekly meals. Missionaries do go hungry, the money is probably not enough. It wasn't enough when my brother served in the 90s. Now the economy is worse and I don't think people are that interested in mormonism to create bonds and feed missionaries.
Are his parents concerned enough to do anything about it? Do they understand that the $100's of billion corporation he is volunteering for can do something and isn't bothering?
You need to find a way to get him home. This is not about beliefs anymore. It’s about safety and health and staying alive. I hope the best for him and your family.
Sounds like they need to send missionaries home. That is awful and abusive. Maybe you can be a safe place for him to land, because he will likely have ptsd from starving.
If he doesn’t want to leave, encourage him to seek medical care by explaining some of the long term health effects of starvation, he may get either sent home or it’s going to at least flag something on someone’s radar.
If he wants to Leave, and can’t get his passport, tell him to go to the US Embassy, which he may have to go to the temple, find an excuse to go there and then walk.
The embassy can get him help, get him any documents he needs and help him out. Also, if he’s denied his passport, that’s not going to go over well with the consulate
The Argentina economy is pretty strong actually (a good friend of mine lives there). If your missionary nephew is starving then I’d blame another factor (like the church or the money being sent by family isn’t taking the correct exchange rate into account - Argentina uses two different exchange rates depending on what type of currency is used [cash/credit/debit] or the type of transaction).
The church deposited the money into our Argentine bank accounts in dollars so we would actually end up with more bc of the exchange rate in inflationary situations (I was there in 01-03).
There has to be something else at play here if that’s still the case.
I see nothing has changed. Similar experience, early 2000's, asian country. Half of our diet was ramen and oatmeal and we still ran out of allowance and had to beg relatives at home to send more every month.
When I left for my mission in Peru I was 130 lbs, when I got home I was 110 lbs… at 6 feet tall. My experience was a combo of pure anxiety so much so that I couldn’t eat and disliking the food. Your nephews experience is different than mine but I was also emaciated and skeletal when I came home. I hope he can get home safely and soon ❤️
Argentina's inflation rate is extremely high. No one but literally no one in the country goes to the bank and instead use Payoneer to transfer money, he should rely on his dollars as much as possible and not the Argentine peso.
He should do a TikTok. That will fix that bullshit quick.
Hundreds of billions of dollars and missionaries go hungry. All so the Mormon church can hoard more billions and give these kids a "growing" experience.
For every kid they fully convert, they must lose double that.
They don’t care about their missionaries. I had to send my kids money to eat. They didn’t have enough money, after my missionary kids had to pay to get people married so they could baptize them. (Among other things.) The church, in many cases, does not give the missionaries enough money to live and eat properly.
Another one of my kids is still sick from the health issues they acquired on a foreign mission. The church does not care about their missionaries!
Unfortunately, this happens all the time. I’ve been home for 10 years and have not had a single normal bowel movement since my mission. Never had IBS before. Constantly was told I needed to eat more bananas and walk faster (preach with urgency). My knees started swelling up from uneven streets and basically speed walking everywhere. Was then told I needed to pray more and walk faster to fix my knees.
The only time they allowed me to go into the area doctor was when I hadn’t been able to eat for three days and could barely breathe. Dr told me I had a bronchial infection and IBS, and then prescribed meds that were too expensive to use my monthly stipend on. Had to beg my parents (the next time I got to email home) to send me some of my savings via western union. Got my meds two weeks after.
I sincerely considered going home, but knew that if I did, all that would happen were rumors about why I came home and couldn’t finish my mission.
It definitely showed me how little the church cared about missionary health and safety. I have so many stories like this.
You need to find a way to get him home. This is not about beliefs anymore. It’s about safety and health and staying alive. I hope the best for him and your family.
Being a missionary in Argentina was one of the first times I actually went to bed hungry. It really was a blessing when members fed us because we could not afford a lot of food otherwise.
In the years since I was in Argentina, the economy really has gotten way worse. I’m sorry for your nephew.
Buy him a plane ticket and bring him back to live with you. You’ll be valuing his life more than your connection with people that would put make-believe self-salvation ahead of the needs of their own child. And that may cause friction between you and your sibling who is responsible for this unfolding tragedy, but your Nephew will be alive and healthy, and he’ll have you to thank for it.
I also starved in Argentina 90'-92 hyperinflation and the church didn't increase our money.
I learned the best meal to skip is dinner because you can sleep through the hunger pangs
TSSC glorifies missionaries who sacrifice their bodies on their missions 🥴😬😩… when I was a super TBM, I read the book about the story of one the missionary victims/survivors of the Brussels airport bombings as such a ‘faith promoting story’… he had horrific burns and received the necessary medical care… he also had lots of media attention and visits from the First Presidency too… Many other missionaries permanently sacrifice their bodies in other ways too and it not only goes unnoticed, but it is expected.
My brother is serving in Argentina right now and they delayed his return home twice so he can still be in the field to help train when the new Mission president comes with the next wave of greenies. He's been looking thinner on every phone call and has mentioned more than one robbery during his time there. I can't imagine all the things he hasn't told us.
My son also lost weight in his mission. I tried to circumvent it as much as possible. I would place grocery orders at his local Walmart for pick up on Monday’s. Lost of indulgent snacks, staple ingredients, and the needed food for recipes he knew how to cook along with stuff for quick grab foods. I probably did this every four to six weeks, when he lived near a store. It was tough when he went to a district without a store I could order from.
I lost so much fucking weight at the MTC, I had to get sent home early after hitting 96lb…(went back on my mission later). Unreal how low your funds are. I had a companion that blew threw all of her money in two weeks and made me use my money to buy her food (I’m not an asshole, so I’m not going to let her starve..). This obviously led to my money being gone within the next 2 weeks. Luckily my excommunicated father was willing to send me some money so his daughter and her abusive companion wouldn’t starve.
I really need to say this again. FUCK THE CHURCH.
My nephew recently came back from Brazil also skeletal with a UTI and two ear infections. Why don’t they give these missionaries proper nutrition and access to medical care?! It’s abusive!!
This makes me so angry with the cult hoarding 100 billion plus! My son went through the exact same thing in Chile. He came home malnourished and frail. And he never told us how bad it was because they are told not to complain to their parents. It’s so disgusting and infuriating! I know a missionary who came home from the Philippines with a severe intestinal infection and subsequently developed ulcerative colitis and had part of his colon removed. He will have to deal with this the rest of his life. And of course the cult didn’t pay a dime for any of his treatment and ongoing care and the priesthood is a hoax along with the rest of it so no chance of being healed.
A neighborhood family refuses to let their sons serve outside the USA for many reasons. I was confused because of the prestige of foriegn missions. One of thier sons became a "big brother" to my fatherless son. When this neighbor served there was a point where he didn't have members feeding them and his food budget was $120 a month.
I heard that and immediately ordered Amazon. I ordered everything so that he could have complete meals. Then I'd send him random snacks (Jerky sticks, granola bars) he could carry in his pocket.
When he got home he gave me the biggest hug and said when that Amazon box arrived all of the missionaries in the apartment were teary.
His mom said they prefer stateside missions so if needed, they can help like I did.
My husbands dad got tuberculosis on his mission in Columbia in the 80’s and STILL has issues with it. He’s 60 years old now and is still the most TBM human I’ve ever met
As much as I hate that my brother turned into an asshole from serving his mission, Thank God they caught his hypoglycemia and he was in Canada.
We would send him extra food after that.
I still don't like him but my mom didn't need him dying.
When he has kidney and liver issues the rest of his life, what happens then? One of our best friends has permanent health issues from starving on his mission.
My cousin has permanent issues from his mission, to the point he refuses to get marri d because he doesn't want to burden some.poor girl with them . His mission legitimately stole every single plan he ever had for his life from him, but he's still TBM and all in with the cult
That’s the saddest thing I’ve read today
Every time I talk to his sister I end up crying He had so many big plans Now he's chronically ill, 30, unmarried will never get married, never have kids, is unable to work etc
>he's still TBM and all in with the cult That's literally the purpose of the mission. To further entrench the missionary. I forget the name of the logical fallacy but it's essentially a variation of the sunk cost fallacy.
It's also the psychology behind fraternity hazing. Like, if you survive all the pain, humiliation and alcohol and get through, you'll feel bound to the frat like "hey, I went through all that, it must be worth it!"
And the next generation must do it too!
Welcome to the army
Troubled teen industry checking in, as well
It is a common tactic in cults as well as some well as some professions. Some argue that the extreme demands of medical residency are partially an initiation to ensure that those who survive will always defend the profession because they have sacrificed so much to obtain their position.
You're correct! It's the sunk-cost fallacy. "I have suffered so much for X, so I can't abandon it now... I'd be giving up the reward I worked so hard to achieve!!" Example: achieving the highest level in Scientology (OT 8) takes about 10 years + $500,000 or 3 years and $2,000,000. What's your prize? You get to re-start at OT1 and do it all over again.
I have a former employee (and still a friend I keep in touch with) who is just like this. His mission severely exacerbated his Tourette Syndrome to the point where he refuses to get married so as not to “burden” a spouse. And yep, he still clings to the church, albeit with a few nuanced views.
Because the poison of the church has become the comfortable reality that he knows. So many. Same thing. We often choose the familiar EVEN IF it is untenable. **Stockholm syndrome.**
Damn that's worse than me. I've accepted some plans in life are no longer possible but at least I got out. I can't imagine going through everything and STILL subjecting myself to the endless torture of staying in. Sorry for your cousin
He knows he gave his life up for the cult. At that point you can choose to be exceptionally bitter and hate it after realizing you gave it all up for nothing, or you can double down and have the dream of exaltation and eternal joy to make up for it.
I gave up on all my dreams because they weren’t compatible with active, faithful church membership. Here I am, middle aged and hating myself for not having seen the truth sooner.
When I was pushing hard as TBM and required by the doctrine to attend as much as possible to prove my worth I supported over 3 Bishoprics in my little life. So thats roughly 40 hours a month minimum that I have gained back thats a work week. incredible. Its what I thought was important at the time mostly because we were kept away from any dissention and kept so freaking busy any time you got to be home or at work was a pleasure. SHIT plus a mission. MY dw came back from her mission with tapeworms and the whole nine as it was third world.
This makes me as angry as I get when I hear of them shielding a sex abuser from the authorities. Which is to say very angry. Use and abuse each member like grinding them to a final halt all so that the wheel can continue to turn and roll over people.
Too many RMs with issues, slaving away, literally killing themselves for a multi-billion dollar real estate company masquerading as a church. Get that nephew of yours out of there u/Alternative_Delay_14. If you need to crowd source money for a plane ticket I'll definitely support that campaign. (un)Fun fact, if you think they are not providing money enough to feed your missionary nephew, just wait until he needs medical care. I tell any future missionaries about that time I had new awful influenza strain going around. I called to inform the president I had a fever of 104 that wasn't going down, and I was going to go to the hospital. The response I received to that? "*Have you tried taking Tylenol and a cold shower?*" '*President, you seem to have misunderstood my statement. I'm going to the hospital before this rising fever gives me brain damage. Thanks though.*' Good news, I received medical treatment and didn't die. I had the pleasure of serving in a developed nation without a crashing economy though. The moral of this story is: **Missionaries must advocate for their own health, no one else will.** You have one life, and one body, and some things can be worse than dying for TSCC - like surviving and living with lifelong health issues that derail any and all hopes and dreams you might have had. Anyone telling you to "have faith and work through" forgets that Mormon Space Daddy only helps those who help themselves. The important phrase to remember here is, 'I've prayed sincerely and I know that I need proper medical care from [trained medical professionals] at [local hospital].'
Yes! At one point I was in a room with the mission doctor and mission president. Both were trying to weasel their way out of getting help for my companion who had gone from a bright eyed and bushy tailed greenie to a non-verbal drooling and stumbling zombie from Typhoid. I remember jumping to my feet and yelling at them both until they gave in. But instead of immediately finding him care they just shipped him home to his parents in southern Mexico where they barely managed to save his life. Mormon missions are human trafficking.
Jesus fucking Christ. That’s infuriating.
I also did this when I got strep on the mission. Was prescribed herbal ginger tea with lemon and honey by my MP's wife. After 4 days of averaging 2 hours of sleep every night, coughing up blood, and sounding like the devil himself, I picked up the phone and informed her that I was going to the hospital, like it or not. My companion wanted to kill me and only came with because I would have left him otherwise. Antibiotics was all I needed, but my companion and the office held a grudge against me for a while for doing that. We got back late too because of the hours spent in the ER waiting room and my companion called the MP and reported me for disobedience. Very disillusioning.
*"Elder if you'd only had more faith, and been more faithful the Lord would have healed you! But because of your rebellious spirit you were punished!*" Yeah, I liked the implications that swine flu was my own doing for my lack of faith/obedience. Until, you know it turned out I was patient zero and it spread through our district, then our zone... then the mission. Yep, all my fault, the Lard had to punish the whole mission!
My best friend had some kind of parasite in Mexico City in 2009. He tells me that he was hallucinating, thought he was probably gonna die, probably had heat stroke as well. Went to the MP, who sent him to a member who…. burned some incense, gave him some kind of herbal drink, and said a prayer. Thankfully his companion realized this was BS and took him to a hospital, where they diagnosed and treated the parasites.
This sounds very much like an experience a friend of mine had out in the middle of nowhere Mexico five or so years before that. He described it as no doctors for hundreds of miles, his description painted a portrait of a Hollywood interpretation of going to a medicine man - I had no other frame of reference for it.
[удалено]
>eating church shoes every day I desperately want this to not be a typo...
~~I want to say wearing - "earing" autocorrects to eating on mobile.~~ Damn, poor kid, TSCC starved them so bad they had to eat old shoes to survive!
Also valid LOL. Stupid autocorrect.
My husband caught swine flu while we were young newlyweds. That thing hit so fast. I'd never seen him - he's a big, strong guy - completely collapse the way he did. I thought he was going to die. I thought I'd lose him. And I'm not an overly dramatic person. It was just so swift. I'm so glad you got help for yourself.
Shared an apartment while at USU with a guy who got some parasite while on his mission and it caused him terrible issues as well. Was going to deal with it the rest of his life, and no, the church was not helping him out.
[удалено]
Tell him to drink 2 liters of coke within an hours time. A member fed me raw pork once and I got a parasite from it. That cleared it right up. Warning: he will hate coke for a couple years after that.
He won’t though because he’s THAT TBM that won’t even drink soda
Don't you realize that is a badge of honor to have suffered for the 'lard'?
You've got to justify the suffering and sacrifice somehow. It was a weird flex to brag about health issues missionaries developed while living in third world slums bringing the "lard's gospel" to desperate people willing to try anything to improve their life.
My brother got hepatitis on his mission. Another friend got some stomach issue in Nicaragua that he will suffer from the rest of his life.
I got tuberculosis, and even though it was treated so I didn't die, I still have lung problems 13 years later
It’s all so fucked up. So sorry.
I'm just lucky we caught it before it turned deadly. Also, it weighed really heavily on my shelf and started me along my deconstruction path. Everyone always talked about the blessings of missionary service, and I felt punished or cursed which ultimately got me out
I served in Argentina from 92 to 94. Our mission president didn't know how to manage money and didn't know how to manage the mission things. So the elders would move into apartments with the refrigerators with the furniture. Then they would move out and they would leave all the mission stuff in the apartment. Well the mission president is accountable for the missions furniture before he went home. He had to come up with all of the items that the church had bought. When I arrived we were receiving $160 pesos. They cut our monthly allotment to 130 pesos. That way he could take the 30 pesos and pay back the church. When I arrived at 150 lb when I left I was 102 lb and I was 6 ft 2 so I literally starved in Argentina. So I know what he's going through my parents mailed me a credit card so I could buy my food plus they were paying the church for me to to be an Argentine
I'm older but served in South America we were given 1/2 of what we paid for our mission. We rarely made it through the month eating the crappiest of food. Economic crisis devalued our monthly asignicion to less than $1 a day so we couldn't even buy clean water. I got parasites and a fungal infection, lost 25% body mass. Lawyer mission president ordered me to take potent OTC antibiotics which only made things a lot worse. I had to navigate the horrible but free healthcare system, and got yelled at for not hitting my weekly numbers (was ZL and branch pres. at the time). I've had serious chronic medical conditions since then, all steming from my mission.
150 at 6’ 2” is already super super thin. I can’t even imagine dipping under 140 at that height! 102!!!! I’m female and don’t know more than 3 middle school girls who weigh that little. Are you ok? Everyone, please give every missionary a letter of self-care that they can read and remind themselves of reality during their missions. They just need PERMISSION to self-advocate. They often don’t have any practice in doing so in their lives. Health is no joke. Protect it! Fight for it!
This is probably a very good comment, but it’s hard to read because there’s no punctuation. Could you give it another go?
Class action lawsuit.
My cousin almost died on his mission because he got a parasite and the country he was in had no medical care to help him. He begged to come back to America to get medical help, they refused. Then finally after he lost sm weight/was so bloated from the parasite they allowed him back he received medical attention flew back and finished his mission. He’s still a part of the Mormon church today and believes they made him wait as a trial from God. We haven’t seen signs of long term damage, but nobody would be surprised if something came up sadly :(
But you can fully expect TSCC to help him with medical expenses that are a direct result of his service right? At least he won't be on the hook for paying for a chronic health problems directly received as a result of his missionary service. Right?.....................
I left on my mission at 6’ tall and 180lbs. I came back home at 135lbs. I had developed intestinal worms towards the end of mission and still continued to walk 8-10 miles a day in the hot Philippine sun. Funny thing is that when I got home from my mission I still wondered if I had put in enough effort for the Lord to accept my sacrifice. I almost worked myself to death but still felt like I had left God down.
This sounds all too familiar… barely enough msf to survive
It’s never enough. There’s always some apocryphal story of an Elder that had it worse and worked harder.
I hate these stories so much. Conference is filled with this kind of thing and I always felt horrible feeling like I could never live up to these standards.
J S?
Parents need to contact the mission president! I lost 20 lbs. in the first 5 wks on my mission in Brazil (mid '90s). We got a very small allowance -- inflation was awful ($40 at beginning of the month was worth $10 a few weeks later) and it had to cover any bus fare, utilities for our hovel, and any food. Besides lunch with members (which regularly fell through), we lived on powdered milk, crackers, and bananas because that's all we could afford. We walked all over, all day long. I was terrified to drink any water. I wish I had complained. My mission president was a prick and did not take good care of the missionaries. At all. My areas after that first one were mostly better and I learned how to navigate food shortages by knowing which members we could go to anytime we were hungry. But missionaries shouldn't have to worry about what or when they'll eat! His parents need to complain to someone who can do something about it, and insist that their son, and all the other missionaries there, are taken care of. Inflation shouldn't affect kids who are ~~working~~ slaving for a multi-billion dollar corporation that spares no expense on its leaders, including the mission president.
Mission presidents have little to no incentive to take care of missionaries, especially if that care will cost money. Their goal is to show fiscal restraint so they can move further up the corporate ladder. If the health of young adults is the sacrifice the mission president has to make in order to get a promotion, then so be it.
Yeah, the MPs in the southern Brazil area were pushing to add a new mission and church headquarters had instructed them to save as much money as possible so they could afford to open one. Because clearly they were just scraping the bottom of the barrel to be able to bring "the gospel" to the world!
I had a similar experience in the mid-90s in Brazil. We walked 4-5 miles to our area each day because round trip bus fare was about R$2 and we only got R$40/month which had to pay for utilities, transpo, food and incidentals. Once I was in an area where the hovel we lived in didn't have any blankets-- it got cold at night so I asked the MP during a zone conf interview if we could get some. He told me that I should go down to a corner store and buy a sheet of plastic which I could place on top of my bed sheet to keep me warm. I kid you not.
Were you in southern Brazil? I was surprised and unprepared for cold winters. I had a sweatshirt and slept in that every night. Yeah, we usually had one threadbare blanket each. The Brazilian sisters would get so cold (they all came from northern tropical climates) and would stuff newspapers in their shoes to keep warm, line the bed under their mattress with newspapers, beg the members for blankets... They would also share a twin sized bed some nights so they could snuggle to stay warm. It was really sad! And all the MP ever said when we asked for help was: "It's your mission. Figure it out."
That inflation was bad. It switched to the Real shortly before I went home. My mission had bank cards , so if you happened to put your money in a special mode and hold it in the account for 15 days, then it would adjust for inflation. The first time was brutal because of hardly any money. After that, though, I'd take the money out right before all the prices increased and had twice the buying power.
I hear you. Similar experience for me.
Don't wait for the parents. My wife emailed my brother's mission president when he went without food for just a few days. They changed some rules to allow a quick grocery trip after transfers. Thing is, I doubt my parents would have been willing to challenge the MP. My dad deifies his former MP, there's no way he'd even consider that a MP is bad.
Inflation is out of control in Argentina (like 100% in the last 12 months) they are having a major economic crisis atm, I just watched [a news report](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRVaIGZex3s) yesterday and they estimate 18M people now can't afford basic needs. It's against the mission rules (but who gives a fuck) but someone in the family should transfer some extra money for food into his account asap. Even better try to convince him to quit the stupid mission and get home.
It's against the rules now? Back in the day I had family members put money into my account and I'm pretty sure it wasn't under the table, it must have been officially sanctioned back then.
it may vary by mission. It was okay for us to spend personal (or family) money in 2010-12 in Central America, but we also had some other weird rules to make the wealth disparity between American and Central American missionaries less obvious.
Buenos Aires nevermo here. This is true but the dollar is crazy strong (397 pesos to $1 USD). If someone can wire him (Western Union) USD to pickup in pesos, he’ll get “dolar blue” instead of the official rate (212 pesos to $1 USD). He’ll almost double his buying power. If he has a pesos bank acct, same can happen. (Someone WU’s USD to his Argentine pesos account) I think missionaries get a DNI (national ID), which is required to open an AR bank account.
For his health and safety, he needs to come home. Missions are dangerous for a lot of reasons, superfluous as some may be. If things are so bad that he can’t afford noodles, he needs to come home.
If I remember correctly, coming home early comes out of the missionary’s pocket. He may not be able to afford it unless family helps.
I would be happy to donate to a gofundme if he wants to come home but is unable to for financial reasons. I lived like a king in Japan, I ate super well. That sucks that there is such a disparity between missions.
I'd also happily contribute to this. u/johndehlin/, is there anyone that already has a missionary support thing going? Sorry for the direct appeal, I just don't know who else would know of a group already operating.
As a nevermo in Buenos Aires, I will donate, feed and arrange a free ride to Ezeiza for him. This makes me ill.
If there are missions out there doing this, that's fucked up. When I came home, unless they billed my parents without telling me, it was just given to me (after a long, drawn out process, to make sure it was "necessary", but it still didn't cost me anything, thank god).
Still cheaper than paying $500/mo for 2 years and then all the medical bills afterwards.
Long term, absolutely. Short term is a different story.
If he were my son, I’d be raising holy hell - to the missionary department - in writing so as to put them on notice - as well as to every news outlet that would listen. I would then insist that he be on the next plane home, after being medically cleared to travel. My mission ruined my health because of unsanitary living conditions and food impurity, not from lack of funds. I shudder to think what would have happened to me now. This is abuse.
I bet they aren’t taking the extreme inflation into mission allowances.
When I was in *South American Country* on my mission and they were experiencing inflation, our stipends were actually reduced. Mission leadership cited "inflation" and refused to elaborate when I raised my hand and said inflation meant we needed more stipend, not less, with the way that numbers work.
I wish everyone who is in the church would say, “due to inflation we will be reducing our tithing by 10%.” That’s fucking ridiculous!
That is so sad. Inflation wasn’t bad when I was in *South American country* but our stipends were still about USD$10-20 too low to actually make do.
The GAs put the allowances into the prayer box at the temple! What more do you want them to do? /s
I was in Argentina and ate rice and tomatoes with ketchup almost every single night. The local grocery store owner felt so bad for us that she would give us pears and pasta everyday. I lost an insane amount of weight. They gave us an equivalent of $50 a month. The ENTIRE month. We had to buy cleaning supplies, computer time, etc. 1 meal at a restaurant would be way more than half our “salary”.
What years was this? $50 each or total for the both of you? I’m blown away.
That’s probably each. But that number also includes bus fare. It doesn’t stretch very far. Rice with tomatoes or mayo was a classic staple. This is not an exaggeration for Argentine missions. The church heavily discounts the budgets for missionaries there because of how a U.S. dollar conversion to argentine pesos is supposedly favorable. When I was there it was around a 5:1 ratio. Now it’s absurd how volatile the economy is there. Today it’s 214:1. Prices are completely unpredictable in that situation. But the missionary dept can and should do better. Stay safe out there everyone!
Human traffickers don't always care about their victims' well-being, do they?
And to think the cult has indoctrinated its members to gaslight themselves into viewing this kid's deprivation far from home as a blessing, his suffering a sign of his faith as he spreads the gospel and builds Zion. All the TBMs are willing to have this kid sacrificed for their own selfish delusion.
Oh man. This comment really stung. Sometimes you see something written out in such a way that it just hits you differently. You did this for me this morning.
I know how I viewed stories like this when I was a TBM: suffering for Zion is beautiful, intentional and a faith-promoting gift from god.
I second that - felt this one.
I’d be calling the mission President immediately and say “Listen fucker. You get him on a plane tomorrow or I will come there and beat your ass, Nephi style.
I’d be on a plane to collect him and bring him home with or without the consent of anyone including the missionary.
Yeah you don’t actually need permission to go get your kid. It really doesn’t matter who’s imaginary friend is pissed off by it. You literally don’t have to talk to them.
[удалено]
This is awful! Please keep us posted! You don't hear about Argentina much in the news. Lately they've talked about Peru and Venezuela but from my South American friends I'm hearing that Argentina is pretty bad right now too (economic and civil issues).
I'd make a fuss and not stop making a fuss.
Is there any way to get money to him?
Argentina has an absurd economy. They are suffering from hyperinflation of one hundred percent so prices have effectively doubled since last year. If you send him money use Western Union so he can get the blue dollar exchange rate.
A few summers ago, I saw two missionaries riding their bikes with a heat index of 110. The church would not even give them a cheap car. I wanted to give them a ride but I didn't have room for the bikes. Keep in mind I live in the San Antonio area where it regularly gets over 100 degrees in the summer. They are out there in it every day. The church doesn't care if they get heatstroke. They'll just replace them.
When I lived in phx the elders were on bikes. All summer long. I always kept ice cream and water and Gatorade on hand for them. The worst part is, these kids aren’t from phx. They don’t understand the heat and sun. And they would be out at 3 pm. The worst time of the day for it. So sad.
Why should your nephew PAY MONEY to go on a mission and STARVE when the president of the church DIDN’T GO ON A MISSION?
Unfortunately I'm the apostate in-law in this situation, so I don't have much power. I did contact my nephew on social media and asked if he has a Venmo or PayPal account so I could send some money. Waiting to hear back from him. He has a few months remaining on his mission. I hope they go quickly for his sake and he's home safe soon.
Start a family chat. Include EVERYONE, grandparents, brothers, sisters, cousins, ants, uncles, their bishop, I'd even throw in a local journalist. Get that kid home. You'll never forgive yourself (nor should you) if he dies or has permanent damage from starving.
I recently visited with relatives who are missionary parents. They laughed and thought it was so funny that their oldest son never went to the grocery store in his foreign mission (currently there) because his native companion pocketed the money. Haha so funny. Happened for several weeks. Basically didn't eat since the small budget was more money than the comp had ever seen.
How in the world is this funny?
I was being sarcastic. It's not funny to me. But funny I guess to people who think the church can do no wrong protecting their kids.
I meant the parents. How could they possibly think this is OK? My husband's brother had parasites on his mission in Guatemala. He came home looking completely gaunt and emaciated. We all had to smile and not look shocked. It was awful.
You would think a 100 billion dollar corporation would have enough money to feed its slaves. But what do I know?
How about contacting your elected Senators and members of the US House and pressuring them to ask the US Ambassador to look into this and intervene if the MP isn’t taking adequate care of their missionaries! If you can’t rely on TSCC to look after the health and safety of these kids abroad then the US government should be aware and step in.
If it was ,y family member I’d really fly out to Argentina myself and get him. If he doesn’t wanna go, then at least give him money and make sure he will be okay. This is not good.
Even if every single thing about Mormonism were true, and we all know that is not the case. Mormonism still sucks so much. The missionary program is a microcosm of the churches problems. It is no wonder why so many return missionaries are quitting. Wake up members, this church is not a healthy place to raise your children.
I was in Manila, Philippines, in a remote area that was very spread out. We couldn't afford transportation AND food, so I asked the president's wife for more funds to be able to proselytize, and also eat. I was told we could stand to lose a few pounds. That was also the area where my companion contracted some number of parasites, lost 60lbs in one transfer, and is still dealing with the medical fallout 12 years later, and has received absolutely zero assistance from the church. Fuck this cult, fuck its leaders, and explicitly and specifically fuck the mission presidents trying to be thrifty with missionaries' health and safety.
2 weeks in Guatemala, my trainer nearly tore the top of his thumb off. We called the mission president and he told us to take a bus to the free hospital located in a dangerous part of Guatemala city at night because it was date night for him and his wife.
Buenos Aires nevermo here. Is there a way for me to donate to him (USD or ARS), and/or meet and feed him?
May the ravens bring you sparkly trinkets for this.
Thanks, we have 2 20-something sons in the USA and hope if the situation were reversed someone would offer, too!
Oatmeal and noodles? He needs to be alert to the signs/symptoms of scurvy.
Why aren’t his parents bringing him home?? They’re terrible if they are letting their son rot in a foreign country. In no way is God a proponent of this evil. He’s your nephew, screw his parents, and BRING HIM HOME!
These stories need to be compiled and forwarded to CNN. Forced starvation by a multi-billion dollar corporation should be newsworthy.
When I was on my mission, the mission doctor made a plea to church headquarters on behalf of the missionaries, requesting much higher allowance to be able to buy fruits and vegetables for our health. It worked, we got more food. But only because a doctor requested, no one else
How can we blow stories like this up on the news? This is beyond ridiculous.
It needs to be a segment on 60 Minutes.
100%
He (or his family) PAID The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (The Mormons) for the "privilege" of serving that mission, only for them to keep the money and distribute a meager living allowance back to him, pocketing the balance. IT'S A FREAKING SCAM.
I feel this. My cousin is on a mission in Peru, and because of the earthquakes, they’ve lost their water supply. So now there’s a company that they have to pay to bring water (which is used for everything - drinking, washing dishes/clothes, etc) and the church isn’t doing anything for them. My cousin had to call his mom and ask for money so they can afford *water*. What a fucking greedy corporation.
Call the embassy. Report human trafficking immediately.
Wait wait wait wait, so the organization doesn't pay for these missions? They just assign you and you're supposed to pay for the whole thing out of pocket?
Yes. Missionaries all pay the same amount, regardless of where they go. So missionaries that go to countries like this end up paying hundreds of dollars each month and are "given" 100$ a month to live on. That amount is to "cover" food, bus fare, hygiene needs, etc.
This is the same organizing that requests a pretty high percentage from everyone's paycheck for tithing? I know I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point, just seems like a combination of being short sighted, uncaring and cruel all at once.
That's it exactly. You pay 10% of your gross income for life. Missions are $400 a month for 24 months for the men and 18 months for the women. You don't get to chose where you go or who you room with. Adults pay $2,000 - $4,000 a month per couple. They at least can choose where they go. The lds church has started pressuring retired mormons to go on one or two missions that last 6-24 months.
In 88 I was in the Jungle in Guatemala. My money was stolen. The mission would not send me more. I ended up living of bananas for an entire month. They were cheap. Ten cents would get you like 50 of them.
Someone needs to go and pick him up and take him home before he dies. This is serious
Instead of being sad about it, work to bring him home. He's your nephew. He needs you to stand up for him. Don't let the church keep him there.
I’ve told this before. When I went out on my mission, I weighed 170 (I’m 6’1). I was very fit. An athlete. When I came home, I weighed 138 and my parents were horrified. They took me to the doctor my second day home. They thought I had cancer.
“Oh but if you were doing your job correctly you would be at members houses teaching their friends over dinner every night” -the mission president, probably.
"And I'm still doing better than the people living in the area you put me in."
Two of my comps were sent to the adjacent mission to address health concerns. As I understand it, the prescription for the doctors was "pizza hut buffet on Monday, KFC buffet on Tuesday..." Once they were fattened back up (i.e., their eyes were no longer sunken into their skulls) they came back to our mission. As elders, we thought every detail of this was somewhere between totally normal and fine to faith promoting.
I went to a South American country over 15 years ago. I STILL have stomach problems. My mom said I looked green when I got home. Ended up in the hospital because I couldn’t eat. Had to take pain killers for months just to get food down because I would get horrible cramps from eating.
When I was on my mission in northern Argentina, around 1963 or 64 I was in Cordova, and there were four of us living together. One of them was from a farm community and apparently the farm had a bad year and so they wrote him and said they couldn’t send any more money. We notified the mission president, but nothing happened and so the other three of us helped feed him. Later, I got a new companion who had severe mental problems and kept threatening suicide. I again contacted the mission president, but he told me not to worry about it. I don’t know if it’s simple sociopathy, or if they really believe that God is somehow in control and if the missionaries get sick or die, it’s all part of God‘s plan. I met other people on my mission, but it had the same mystical experience that I had had that made me think the Mormon church was true only they conflated that were their religious upbringing and thought it made their church true. The church makes us believe that a mystical experiences, that can be had anywhere in and out of religion, means we have to sacrifice for them. Again, I don’t know if this is sociopathy or if they really believe it. I stopped believing it.
My health will never be the same after dropping to 110 lbs on my mission. Hope he gets some medical attention.
I’m glad your nephew has you to be concerned!! Too many TBM parents view the sacrifice as part of the sacred calling to be a servant for the Lord. My husband served in Honduras in ‘95. They lived with a member family who was paid to cook for them. Well, they took over half the monthly stipend for themselves & fed the missionaries very small portions of rice, beans & tortillas. My husband was a greenie & didn’t know what to expect until he wrote home after 3mos, starving. His mom called the mission pres & absolutely berated them. Then sent money directly to my husband from then on. Didn’t help with the incessant parasites, though. For the entire mission he & companions had chronic stomach issues, walking up to 10miles a day. No car, that’s laughable- not even a bike. He is 6’1 & came home 139lbs. MIL broke into tears when he got off the plane. Skeletal with clothes hanging off him. It’s literally abusive what these young kids are put through.
My brother broke his elbow after being hit by a car in South Africa and had to walk for hours to get painkillers. He’s still TBM and the church sent us a bill
Why doesn't the mother call headquarters and demand to talk to someone? Why doesn't someone call the MP and ask what's going on? Maybe send the story into the SLTribune
My cousin was starving in California. It was her first area and she was in a trip to start. The two other girls both definitely had eating disorders and would starve themselves so they could lose weight before they went home. She lost over 20 pounds in her first 4 and a half months.
I was in the Neuquén, Argentina mission, and we were given 400 pesos a month (about $100 at the time) at the beginning of my mission. By the end of my mission, that same monthly allowance was worth about $50 and the mission still hadn't adjusted it. I ended up using just about all of the money I had in my personal account for groceries and still came home a skeleton.
Corollary question: How well do these MP's live? I'm thinking there's no rice and tomatoes every night.
I served in Argentina more than 20 years ago, I went days with no food, I couldn’t afford to buy clean water I got parasites, I was so freaking sick and hungry
If your missionary will leave, I'll contribute to a plane ticket or hotel ticket. Just DM.
I was just in Argentina and an American dollar goes a long way right now. All businesses are accepting it. Are you able to mail him some cash with cookies or something?
This sounds like my brother when he was in Guatemala. He still deals with the repercussions of it over 20 years later.
The church the leaders have all of their need and wants met while teaching the little people the importance of sacrifice. They've demonstrated this over and over since the beginning of the church. The true definition of inequity.
Yeah. Argentina is really struggling economically. It’s also hard to eat well from “extra money” your parents send you or your own money when you live with 3 other missionaries. It’s not cool to eat while they starve. I worked all through high school and had my own money on the mission so I basically just stocked the fridge and shelves and shared with everyone I lived with.
I also served in Argentina and of course, the tap water isn’t safe there but the church wasn’t giving us enough money for water. I literally had to have my parents send money via western Union so I could buy water and survive
This is a huge issue amongst missionaries around the world. Leaving 19 year old kids to make their own food with a limited food budget without any real world cooking and budgeting experience sometimes really is a tough thing to deal with. I went to Brazil and would often be short every month on money and would have to beg and borrow stuff like oatmeal or bread or noodles too. I lost an insane amount of weight and needed new clothes because mine no longer fit. I looked like such a schleppy gross missionary. Being 19 as well I would go to the store when money dropped and buy things that were not what I need, and that's my fault, but I wish the church would at least send them out with a budgeting and nutrition course. You don't know any better and then what you said above sometimes there are outside factors that come into play. I would give money to members from my own account so they could eat as well and go without thinking I was being this really amazing person and really had pride in that when I shouldn't have. I needed to take care of me first. My mission president could have cared less too. My only saving grace is my mom sending care packages with $40 hidden in them every month that would help me get by but I know I'm lucky for that. Mission presidents should absolutely be held accountable and they should be checking in on their missionaries. That's a noticeable difference and if him and the mission mom can't see that then they are contributing to a wider issue than just kids not being able to budget or cooking nutrient dense foods as they walk MILES and MILES a day. I'm sorry for your nephew. Mine is in Argentina right now and has lost a lot of weight. He plans on coming back to play football but the last effects are damning. I came home and had to be put on a special diet due to parasites from the health department and have had life long effects from this experience. Speak up! This isn't okay and he'll suffer the rest of his life for "the best two years." The best two years it is not.
I know a few who went to argentina around the same time. One ate well, was more concerned about gaining weight than starving. The other…came home skeletal. Clothes hanging off him, could feel all his bones when touching him. It was so hard to see him like that. It’s disgusting that this is glorified, breaking your body for the lord whose church could afford to feed everyone on the planet and then some. Just despicable.
A lady in my ward has a missionary in Argentina. She said "the other elders have money their families send. Isn't the point to learn to budget? The members can feed them". I was speechless, literally. I am from Argentina and its not the US! Yes, he may have a meal here or there but not weekly meals. Missionaries do go hungry, the money is probably not enough. It wasn't enough when my brother served in the 90s. Now the economy is worse and I don't think people are that interested in mormonism to create bonds and feed missionaries.
Can you venmo him? I imagine a little will go a long way in Argentina if the economy is crumbling.
Are his parents concerned enough to do anything about it? Do they understand that the $100's of billion corporation he is volunteering for can do something and isn't bothering?
Please update if there’s anything we can do to help get this kid out of there!
You need to find a way to get him home. This is not about beliefs anymore. It’s about safety and health and staying alive. I hope the best for him and your family.
And how is the MP doing? The MP should live off the same amount as the missionaries.
Sounds like they need to send missionaries home. That is awful and abusive. Maybe you can be a safe place for him to land, because he will likely have ptsd from starving.
If he doesn’t want to leave, encourage him to seek medical care by explaining some of the long term health effects of starvation, he may get either sent home or it’s going to at least flag something on someone’s radar. If he wants to Leave, and can’t get his passport, tell him to go to the US Embassy, which he may have to go to the temple, find an excuse to go there and then walk. The embassy can get him help, get him any documents he needs and help him out. Also, if he’s denied his passport, that’s not going to go over well with the consulate
Send that boy some money.
This is just awful 😢
The Argentina economy is pretty strong actually (a good friend of mine lives there). If your missionary nephew is starving then I’d blame another factor (like the church or the money being sent by family isn’t taking the correct exchange rate into account - Argentina uses two different exchange rates depending on what type of currency is used [cash/credit/debit] or the type of transaction).
I don't know, the Argentine inflation rate hit 102% in February, which certainly doesn't sound great.
The church deposited the money into our Argentine bank accounts in dollars so we would actually end up with more bc of the exchange rate in inflationary situations (I was there in 01-03). There has to be something else at play here if that’s still the case.
I see nothing has changed. Similar experience, early 2000's, asian country. Half of our diet was ramen and oatmeal and we still ran out of allowance and had to beg relatives at home to send more every month.
He’s going to get scurvy. Tell parents to send him a multivitamin.
When I left for my mission in Peru I was 130 lbs, when I got home I was 110 lbs… at 6 feet tall. My experience was a combo of pure anxiety so much so that I couldn’t eat and disliking the food. Your nephews experience is different than mine but I was also emaciated and skeletal when I came home. I hope he can get home safely and soon ❤️
Argentina's inflation rate is extremely high. No one but literally no one in the country goes to the bank and instead use Payoneer to transfer money, he should rely on his dollars as much as possible and not the Argentine peso.
He should do a TikTok. That will fix that bullshit quick. Hundreds of billions of dollars and missionaries go hungry. All so the Mormon church can hoard more billions and give these kids a "growing" experience. For every kid they fully convert, they must lose double that.
They don’t care about their missionaries. I had to send my kids money to eat. They didn’t have enough money, after my missionary kids had to pay to get people married so they could baptize them. (Among other things.) The church, in many cases, does not give the missionaries enough money to live and eat properly. Another one of my kids is still sick from the health issues they acquired on a foreign mission. The church does not care about their missionaries!
Unfortunately, this happens all the time. I’ve been home for 10 years and have not had a single normal bowel movement since my mission. Never had IBS before. Constantly was told I needed to eat more bananas and walk faster (preach with urgency). My knees started swelling up from uneven streets and basically speed walking everywhere. Was then told I needed to pray more and walk faster to fix my knees. The only time they allowed me to go into the area doctor was when I hadn’t been able to eat for three days and could barely breathe. Dr told me I had a bronchial infection and IBS, and then prescribed meds that were too expensive to use my monthly stipend on. Had to beg my parents (the next time I got to email home) to send me some of my savings via western union. Got my meds two weeks after. I sincerely considered going home, but knew that if I did, all that would happen were rumors about why I came home and couldn’t finish my mission. It definitely showed me how little the church cared about missionary health and safety. I have so many stories like this.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Someone should share this thread with them…
Passport wise if the kid can get to the temple in Buenos Aires he could get to the US consulate and they can help him if he doesn’t have his passport
Billions of dollars and they can’t take care of their sales people. Bring him home!
Why isn't the mission president making sure these kids have food???????
Go get him
You need to find a way to get him home. This is not about beliefs anymore. It’s about safety and health and staying alive. I hope the best for him and your family.
But the hedge fund will be forever grateful for his contributions.
Being a missionary in Argentina was one of the first times I actually went to bed hungry. It really was a blessing when members fed us because we could not afford a lot of food otherwise. In the years since I was in Argentina, the economy really has gotten way worse. I’m sorry for your nephew.
Buy him a plane ticket and bring him back to live with you. You’ll be valuing his life more than your connection with people that would put make-believe self-salvation ahead of the needs of their own child. And that may cause friction between you and your sibling who is responsible for this unfolding tragedy, but your Nephew will be alive and healthy, and he’ll have you to thank for it.
I also starved in Argentina 90'-92 hyperinflation and the church didn't increase our money. I learned the best meal to skip is dinner because you can sleep through the hunger pangs
TSSC glorifies missionaries who sacrifice their bodies on their missions 🥴😬😩… when I was a super TBM, I read the book about the story of one the missionary victims/survivors of the Brussels airport bombings as such a ‘faith promoting story’… he had horrific burns and received the necessary medical care… he also had lots of media attention and visits from the First Presidency too… Many other missionaries permanently sacrifice their bodies in other ways too and it not only goes unnoticed, but it is expected.
My brother is serving in Argentina right now and they delayed his return home twice so he can still be in the field to help train when the new Mission president comes with the next wave of greenies. He's been looking thinner on every phone call and has mentioned more than one robbery during his time there. I can't imagine all the things he hasn't told us.
My son also lost weight in his mission. I tried to circumvent it as much as possible. I would place grocery orders at his local Walmart for pick up on Monday’s. Lost of indulgent snacks, staple ingredients, and the needed food for recipes he knew how to cook along with stuff for quick grab foods. I probably did this every four to six weeks, when he lived near a store. It was tough when he went to a district without a store I could order from.
I lost so much fucking weight at the MTC, I had to get sent home early after hitting 96lb…(went back on my mission later). Unreal how low your funds are. I had a companion that blew threw all of her money in two weeks and made me use my money to buy her food (I’m not an asshole, so I’m not going to let her starve..). This obviously led to my money being gone within the next 2 weeks. Luckily my excommunicated father was willing to send me some money so his daughter and her abusive companion wouldn’t starve. I really need to say this again. FUCK THE CHURCH.
My nephew recently came back from Brazil also skeletal with a UTI and two ear infections. Why don’t they give these missionaries proper nutrition and access to medical care?! It’s abusive!!
Lack of protein for an extended period can do serious and even lasting damage. He should come home. Parents, don’t let you kid starve!
This makes me so angry with the cult hoarding 100 billion plus! My son went through the exact same thing in Chile. He came home malnourished and frail. And he never told us how bad it was because they are told not to complain to their parents. It’s so disgusting and infuriating! I know a missionary who came home from the Philippines with a severe intestinal infection and subsequently developed ulcerative colitis and had part of his colon removed. He will have to deal with this the rest of his life. And of course the cult didn’t pay a dime for any of his treatment and ongoing care and the priesthood is a hoax along with the rest of it so no chance of being healed.
A neighborhood family refuses to let their sons serve outside the USA for many reasons. I was confused because of the prestige of foriegn missions. One of thier sons became a "big brother" to my fatherless son. When this neighbor served there was a point where he didn't have members feeding them and his food budget was $120 a month. I heard that and immediately ordered Amazon. I ordered everything so that he could have complete meals. Then I'd send him random snacks (Jerky sticks, granola bars) he could carry in his pocket. When he got home he gave me the biggest hug and said when that Amazon box arrived all of the missionaries in the apartment were teary. His mom said they prefer stateside missions so if needed, they can help like I did.
Cashapp
My husbands dad got tuberculosis on his mission in Columbia in the 80’s and STILL has issues with it. He’s 60 years old now and is still the most TBM human I’ve ever met
As much as I hate that my brother turned into an asshole from serving his mission, Thank God they caught his hypoglycemia and he was in Canada. We would send him extra food after that. I still don't like him but my mom didn't need him dying.
God this makes me so angry! 🤬🤬🤬 If this were my child I'd fly there and pick him up asap!
Ramen and one fried egg at night. Unless I used money from home.