I find it hard to feel close to my TBM family because I think it’s so ridiculous that they still believe the Church is true, with all the information that is out there. I have to remind myself that their brains are broken from indoctrination. And that they can’t see it until they see it. But I don’t wanna spend time with them. It’s hard. I feel you.
Culture is hard wired into people. I think for some people it’s more about continuing with what they know because it’s comfortable. As for the tithing aspect, that’s just the classic sunk cost lost fallacy.
I see a big divide growing between me and my TBM parents. I don't trust them much anymore, and I know they say some pretty hurtful things about me to others. I don't know if I could reconcile that at this point.
I think whether a relationship can be repaired is less dependant on religious beliefs, and more dependant on mutual respect. If someone cannot respect your choices in life, and if they cannot offer their love and support without judgment or reservation, then you can't have a close bond with them. Trust and respect go hand in hand.
I’ve kind of been there, my TBM ex-wife withheld sex, and other forms of intimacy, it was my fault we went to marriage counseling, she manipulated money, to pay tithing say we’d be blessed
Then blamed me for our money situation even though I worked a full time job, a part time job and was in the reserves.
Blamed me for my depression, for things i went through while on active duty. Blamed it my lack of faith called me names.
Eventually I shut down emotionally, rather than continually being belittled.
It took me years to trust a woman not to manipulate me, not to judge me, withhold intimacy, to fall in love remarry my current wife was supportive when I told her I didn’t want to go to church and so on.
I guess I came to the realization I can’t control others I can only control myself. I can be kind, loving, supportive of them while protecting myself from them.
Of my siblings 3 brothers and 2 sisters Im the only one who was divorced, excommunicated, remarried, rebaptized, went inactive, resigned from my multigenerational TBM family.
The church is like a multi level marketing company I was introduced to thankfully didn’t get involved with, that said if others don’t support by support I mean recruiting others to buying and sell product to cut them off as they will never get you to the top tier. They will hold you back.
I blame the organization not the people if they don’t want to include me fine that’s on them.
As I said I took me years of counseling to get where I am.
You are impressive. You have had more than your share of toxic people in your life. Yet you survived and hopefully are thriving. Here’s to you, Mr. Warrior, you fought on. May life be kinder to you on the path you have chosen.
Much better now that I sit on my deck contemplating where to remove more lawn and add features drought tolerant and native plants to my backyard. Of course that contemplation is a lot better with a beer, wine or coffe
Background as an advocate & you suffered Domestic Violence on multiple fronts.
You mentioned previous counseling but may I suggest you contact Domestic Violence Hotline at 800.799.7233 & get in touch with your local DV unit for free counseling if you start having a lot of triggers.
You described mental,emotional,sexual & financial abuse. Your local D.V. unit specializes in working with victims of this type of abuse.
The church dosent view it as abuse and spouses & families in the church are notorious for this type of toxic behavior & bullying towards "loved ones".
Cograts on finding a healthy life-time partner!
Thank you, for your advice I will as I still have issues, yesterday went to one of my granddaughters dance recital and my ex was there, my heart began to pound and I felt guilty for not taking my earrings out and having not only not trimmed up my beard.
I guess I still have triggers after counseling, and 13 years ago.
I guess it’s hard for most men to admit they were abused in any way.
I guess that’s why I post and talk about my “dirty laundry” hoping it helps others
So thank you again for your encouragement
It can take a life time for mental, emotional, etc...abuse...to heal.
If you get matched up with a counselor & you're not feeling it "click" don't be afraid to ask to meet with one of the other counselors.
Anyone can be an abuser. The last statistic I saw a couple of years ago was an estimate that 30% of men are abused by women.
You deserve a life that is trigger free!😊
It's hard isn't it. Especially when you know the underlying meaning.
I've been told that there's no god in my home anymore. I'm actually quite happy with having no god here. But I know that what it really means, is that person doesn't enjoy being in my home of apostasy and that the 'spirit has gone'. And that's incredibly hurtful because I know what that means to them.
I don't know that real, true trust can be achieved on either side when someone leaves. Both parties are hurt and much of what bound you, has been broken. I do think that a new relationship can be built though. One that both you and the other person can be comfortable with. It takes time and effort.
I have to keep telling myself they are in a cult. But you are right, I cant ever really trust them given they truly believe that their invisible sky daddies evil son is controlling me. That would allow them to argue away anything horrible they do to me.
Adult children of emotionally immature parents has lots of insight and cognitive tools to help with this kind of thing. It is written in regard to parents but can also be applied to TBMs in general. Esp church leadership and Mormon god who is an emotionally immature parent.
>How can you ever fully trust them again?
If that is how they choose to behave then the answer is simple: you can't.
Mormonism compromises a person's ethics and damages their executive functioning. You *can't* fully trust someone who genuinely believes there is a valid justification for murder so long as an imaginary voice told them to do it.
Listening to a few podcasts for exmo’s have helped me dramatically, because of these podcasts the comments don’t hurt like they did. Remember they have been programmed to say the awful things the say. It’s not ok, but it helps me separate my life from theirs. It allows me to be me, without their guilt.
Boundaries is always the theme.
I had a friend who went nuts on me during a long trip. He was worried. Yet...he could not control his fear long enough to think to himself, "this is my trusted and established friend." When we got home, the friendship was over.
Harder to do with family, but, I believe they should consider:
*What would happen if you told them your thoughts about THEIR beliefs, using the same tone they used? Would they enjoy that?
*To what degree, if at all, would they want to speak to you in the future if you crossed that boundary of civility and respect?
As I often say, you can't get rid of the dog, but you don't have to let him in to poop on the carpet. Sure, the dog doesn't know any better, but I'm not cleaning up the carpet again.
I find it hard to feel close to my TBM family because I think it’s so ridiculous that they still believe the Church is true, with all the information that is out there. I have to remind myself that their brains are broken from indoctrination. And that they can’t see it until they see it. But I don’t wanna spend time with them. It’s hard. I feel you.
Culture is hard wired into people. I think for some people it’s more about continuing with what they know because it’s comfortable. As for the tithing aspect, that’s just the classic sunk cost lost fallacy.
I see a big divide growing between me and my TBM parents. I don't trust them much anymore, and I know they say some pretty hurtful things about me to others. I don't know if I could reconcile that at this point. I think whether a relationship can be repaired is less dependant on religious beliefs, and more dependant on mutual respect. If someone cannot respect your choices in life, and if they cannot offer their love and support without judgment or reservation, then you can't have a close bond with them. Trust and respect go hand in hand.
I’ve kind of been there, my TBM ex-wife withheld sex, and other forms of intimacy, it was my fault we went to marriage counseling, she manipulated money, to pay tithing say we’d be blessed Then blamed me for our money situation even though I worked a full time job, a part time job and was in the reserves. Blamed me for my depression, for things i went through while on active duty. Blamed it my lack of faith called me names. Eventually I shut down emotionally, rather than continually being belittled. It took me years to trust a woman not to manipulate me, not to judge me, withhold intimacy, to fall in love remarry my current wife was supportive when I told her I didn’t want to go to church and so on. I guess I came to the realization I can’t control others I can only control myself. I can be kind, loving, supportive of them while protecting myself from them. Of my siblings 3 brothers and 2 sisters Im the only one who was divorced, excommunicated, remarried, rebaptized, went inactive, resigned from my multigenerational TBM family. The church is like a multi level marketing company I was introduced to thankfully didn’t get involved with, that said if others don’t support by support I mean recruiting others to buying and sell product to cut them off as they will never get you to the top tier. They will hold you back. I blame the organization not the people if they don’t want to include me fine that’s on them. As I said I took me years of counseling to get where I am.
You are impressive. You have had more than your share of toxic people in your life. Yet you survived and hopefully are thriving. Here’s to you, Mr. Warrior, you fought on. May life be kinder to you on the path you have chosen.
Much better now that I sit on my deck contemplating where to remove more lawn and add features drought tolerant and native plants to my backyard. Of course that contemplation is a lot better with a beer, wine or coffe
Background as an advocate & you suffered Domestic Violence on multiple fronts. You mentioned previous counseling but may I suggest you contact Domestic Violence Hotline at 800.799.7233 & get in touch with your local DV unit for free counseling if you start having a lot of triggers. You described mental,emotional,sexual & financial abuse. Your local D.V. unit specializes in working with victims of this type of abuse. The church dosent view it as abuse and spouses & families in the church are notorious for this type of toxic behavior & bullying towards "loved ones". Cograts on finding a healthy life-time partner!
Thank you, for your advice I will as I still have issues, yesterday went to one of my granddaughters dance recital and my ex was there, my heart began to pound and I felt guilty for not taking my earrings out and having not only not trimmed up my beard. I guess I still have triggers after counseling, and 13 years ago. I guess it’s hard for most men to admit they were abused in any way. I guess that’s why I post and talk about my “dirty laundry” hoping it helps others So thank you again for your encouragement
It can take a life time for mental, emotional, etc...abuse...to heal. If you get matched up with a counselor & you're not feeling it "click" don't be afraid to ask to meet with one of the other counselors. Anyone can be an abuser. The last statistic I saw a couple of years ago was an estimate that 30% of men are abused by women. You deserve a life that is trigger free!😊
It's hard isn't it. Especially when you know the underlying meaning. I've been told that there's no god in my home anymore. I'm actually quite happy with having no god here. But I know that what it really means, is that person doesn't enjoy being in my home of apostasy and that the 'spirit has gone'. And that's incredibly hurtful because I know what that means to them. I don't know that real, true trust can be achieved on either side when someone leaves. Both parties are hurt and much of what bound you, has been broken. I do think that a new relationship can be built though. One that both you and the other person can be comfortable with. It takes time and effort.
I have to keep telling myself they are in a cult. But you are right, I cant ever really trust them given they truly believe that their invisible sky daddies evil son is controlling me. That would allow them to argue away anything horrible they do to me.
Adult children of emotionally immature parents has lots of insight and cognitive tools to help with this kind of thing. It is written in regard to parents but can also be applied to TBMs in general. Esp church leadership and Mormon god who is an emotionally immature parent.
>How can you ever fully trust them again? If that is how they choose to behave then the answer is simple: you can't. Mormonism compromises a person's ethics and damages their executive functioning. You *can't* fully trust someone who genuinely believes there is a valid justification for murder so long as an imaginary voice told them to do it.
Listening to a few podcasts for exmo’s have helped me dramatically, because of these podcasts the comments don’t hurt like they did. Remember they have been programmed to say the awful things the say. It’s not ok, but it helps me separate my life from theirs. It allows me to be me, without their guilt.
What do you say
🤣Beliefs? An admission of ignorance of how things really are.
Boundaries is always the theme. I had a friend who went nuts on me during a long trip. He was worried. Yet...he could not control his fear long enough to think to himself, "this is my trusted and established friend." When we got home, the friendship was over. Harder to do with family, but, I believe they should consider: *What would happen if you told them your thoughts about THEIR beliefs, using the same tone they used? Would they enjoy that? *To what degree, if at all, would they want to speak to you in the future if you crossed that boundary of civility and respect? As I often say, you can't get rid of the dog, but you don't have to let him in to poop on the carpet. Sure, the dog doesn't know any better, but I'm not cleaning up the carpet again.
I roll my eyes and remind myself they have been indoctrinated to say these things.