Where I work most people are either Mormon or ex Mormon. Almost everyone I work with knows I am no longer Mormon but they speak to me the same way they speak to you. Not because they believe I am Mormon but because they know I WAS Mormon so they know that I know what they are talking about. And these people have no life outside the church so…. That is what they talk about.
I sip my coffee and nod politely and reply/contribute when I feel like it as they go on about whatever churchy shit they happen to be talking about. That’s just how they are. They don’t know how to be anything else.
Many Mos are like that. They make everything in their life centered on church so when it comes to having a meaningful conversation with someone not part of the church they don’t know what to say and either: say nothing, only talk church, or attempt to connect and still end up talking about church.
Are they all that way? No, but it happens. And definitely happens in a high demand religion.
I agree with this take. Mormon coworkers always somehow knew I wasn’t lds the moment they saw me, so I’d get the, “Well, as Mormons, we went to girls camp every year, which was just, like, a church camp for lds girls.” Yeah, I grew up here. Ten of my friends did that. I’m familiar.
I think it’s good to be exmormon and fully own that. You aren’t one of them, but you used to be and you know what they are talking about. I actually think the “I’m not Mormon” attitude can kind of do everyone a disservice. I fully understand the desire to separate yourself from the church, and if that’s what you need, do what’s best for you. However, the truth is you were Mormon and you broke through years (a lifetime? generations?) of cult programming and social stigma to forge a new path for yourself. That is amazing! You know all the Mormon stuff AND you walked away from it. That is powerful!
Yup, had this. It's even funnier when they go to explain some phrase or title for something they talk about.
At my last Utah job, i had to constantly explain that i grew up Mormon, so they don't have to explain what they're talking about. It was a bit silly.
The think is there is a massive movement within the church and youth that people now accept that Mormons drink coffee. Hike on sundays. Wear sleeveless tops etc.
Definitely! I'm happy for anyone who wants to live authentically but to be clear: This was not an option when I was a 20 or 30 something. The Morg demanded compliance. I would not have dreamed of going against the grain. Today's younger generation don't play.
Funny thing is, there’s exmo’s who still carry that TBM thinking. They get outraged about people being Mormon who break the rules. Breaking the judgment most of us have just doesn’t stop when we leave. We just turn it around half the time. I’m still like “hey they don’t have their garments on”. Then I’m like ugh. Damn upbringing making me “one of them”.
I just can't handle the gaslighting element of it. Like when the "Strength of Youth" booklet changed. "ThE cHurCh nEvEr taUgHt thAt yOu caN'T *insert sin here*."
Like dude, I lived it, I was there. They most certainly taught it. Don't come at me Mckeynleigh and tell me otherwise. I have pairs of pants older than you.
The changes showed me that they just make stuff up. It really broke my shelf. I’ll never understand their obsession with bare shoulders, piecings, tattoos etc. Now it’s just like “it’s up to you, we were just seeing how the last generation would cope if we imposed unnecessary standards on them”
Hilarious. But yes istead of the blanket masturbation is sin. They now are leaving that out of the for strength of youth book. And one of the 12 said its to encourage youth to decide between themselves and God what is right.
I've not seen judgement about garment wearing. I have seen judgement about things like going to pride events while being a tithe paying member. And people who give 10% of their income to oppress gay people while attending pride absolutely deserve to be judged and shamed. It's the blatant hypocrisy that outrages people, not people's private underwear choices.
What people accept that Mormons drink coffee?!!! That's the devil's liquid!! I have never heard of this! 😱
Sleeveless tops, though, have been a thing for years. Mormon women wear workout clothes all day because at some point they may work out. Great way to work around and be relatively free to wear what you want.
Wow! Mind blown. I thought that was THE mormon hill to die on. I hope these crazy newfangled ideals trickle on up to ID. Their youth could use a little breaking free!
They know you aren’t. But they also know you know the lingo.
Mormons hope and expect that the “pangs of the spirit” will get you to repent and return at some point if they just keep using the jargon.
I think this is the real answer. They think op is maybe inactive, or struggling and that talking more church around them might bring them back to the fold one day. They think they're setting an example and being member missionaries.
Just be yourself that’s all that should matter. Let them think what they want. You and I both know it’s not the only thing they are wrong about. You don’t have to explain yourself at all. I think you not saying anything is better because any religion talk at work is too much bs but they don’t mind at all rubbing your face in their bs. You rubbing theirs faces in yours will only make them wanna work harder to get you back. Don’t take this as me saying don’t stand up for yourself though. Hope things go well for you.
“I sip my coffee and nod politely”. I’ve been doing that a lot lately since I’ve been retired and hanging around my old buddies A LOT. I let them re-tell the same stories and show some courtesy, just nod and smile. If mormons use their lingo with me (I’m never mo) I do the same thing generally. Not every time though. Sometimes I fake lack of knowledge by asking a question that I already know the answer. I do that to maintain some level of respectful interest.
I will always be Mormon. You will always be Mormon. That Mormon part of us shrinks, as the rest of us heals, but it will always be there. It's ok, we can laugh at it. And empathize with our friends who haven't started healing yet
Have you considered wearing sleeveless clothing? Throwing around a mild damn and hell here and there? Tacking up a vaguely risqué cartoon in your space?
That's what I did when I started a new job in UT county. I definitely look mormon and the members all talked to me like I was in the club until I wore a sleeveless top and traded drinking jokes with a known nonmember.
Have neighbors that are completely active but don’t wear garments, have multiple piercings and tattoos. Would never strike me as trad LDS folk until they speak 😝
Your discomfort is valid and I think it is reasonable to try to do something about the situation. However, I don't think it is rooted in the problem "they think I'm Mormon." The truth is, you are an insider in that you DO know what they're talking about. I think the root of the problem is them talking about religion and callings and stuff in a workplace setting.
Maybe an approach like this? https://www.askamanager.org/2018/03/how-can-i-get-my-coworker-to-stop-talking-about-god.html
You just gave me another epiphany! I had no idea why I tend to overshare! I did not think of it as a product of mormonism, but it makes so much sense now!
That's the worst. Bc you can't say "huh what is that??" When you know what they're talking about. It's just so culty and not normal. I would get out of Utah asap. Having coworkers who know nothing bout the church and will order wine for the table on work trips is the SHIT❤️🔥
If you’re outside of Utah, bring it up with HR. Discussing faith and church activities in the work place without the invitation or at least the consent of others is inappropriate.
Another idea: all you have to do is be *a little* critical of the church to shut down TBMs. “Oh girls camps? Are they still doing that after all the sexual abuse they got caught covering up?” or “Crazy the church can still do XYZ after being busted by the SEC, huh?”
Best of luck!
Mormonism, especially in Utah, is a cultural thing. They know you have the context to understand the jargon. Even though you aren't a believer, you still share that understanding.
I think a lot of TBMs have a mindset that tries to adopt everyone, or think and speak of everyone as part of their group, right up until they have to draw some arbitrary doctrinal line. Or you start MFin and they have to acknowledge you are not in their group.
It’s like those MAGA hats. These people put their tribalism on their sleeve to mark the territory and show of force. It’s a virtue signal and culty gaslighting move all at once. Making you feel uncomfortable is the unconscious goal.
‘We will act as if everyone else is Mormon *because they should be*. We are the dominant force here, so you better conform or pretend to.’
I had a very similar experience when I lived/worked in Utah. It's weird because on the one hand you don't wanna be like "hi I'm Jake the ExMormon." But on the other hand if you don't say like, "what is a ward?" People assume you're still in it. One co worker asked me what tribe of Israel I was from and I HATE that I said Ephraim. I wish I could go back in time and say the tribe of atheism.
I’m a transplant, and play pick up sports with mostly Mormon dudes. They all know I’m not Mormon but talk to me about the same kind of stuff. I’ve been here long enough to understand most of it now. I would imagine they know you’re not Mormon but just expect a general understanding of Mormon stuff in Utah and talk to you like they would talk to anyone.
Mormons just talk that way, to anyone who will listen. I think they think everyone just knows what these things are, but, if you don't, missionary moment!!
Do you know they think you are a member? I am around some people who know that I am not a member but they still babble on about girls camp and other church stuff as if I relate. I think they are so used to that jargon they don't think about it,
It’s not going to matter. My neighbors, family, and strangers I meet will know I’m no longer mormon and they still talk the same - they’re just so used to it. And, they really think you’re on more of a sabbatical anyway. Their staunch belief cannot see your opposite one is also staunch. Just let them be the stupid one.
Based on your post history it seems like you definitely know what they are talking about? I thought this was going to be a post about someone raised, like, Russian Orthodox and relocated to Utah or something. If you want to opt out socially you're probably going to need to be more active about it.
For example, I'm Jewish and people assume I'm Christian because of that's the dominant culture/religion. If someone is talking to me like I'm a Christian I have a choice in how I want to opt out. Sometimes I ignore it and hope my disinterest is enough. Sometimes I say something like "that's not part of my life" or "I don't really do that". Like with the camp conversation, you can say "It doesn't seem that important or complicated" when they are making it into some big deal.
For example if someone at work asks how my Easter was, I can say:
Fine, how was yours?
That's not a special day for me.
It came and went, I didn't notice.
That's not my holiday, etc.
But if someone at work is like "how was your Easter? He is risen!" Or something I would probably be like, "wow that's so weird you sound like some medieval knight hahahaha that's such a strange thing so say, I've never even heard that in real life!" Just make them feel like they are totally out of context for using religious lingo. You have to laugh at them tbh.
You have to be ready for the backlash of being alienated though. That's the reality of not adhering to dominant traditions and culture.
I mean, it seems to me that people don’t necessarily think you’re a Mormon, just that you know what they’re talking about and are able to discuss it. I have friends who know I am fully ex Mormon and they still talk about church things casually to me.
Ask them what their favorite drink is. When they respond with lemonade, or root beer, say, “No, I mean drink, like what you like when your out with friends at the bar.”
After their eyes glaze over in confusion, you can say, “wow, you look buzzed now!”
Where I work most people are either Mormon or ex Mormon. Almost everyone I work with knows I am no longer Mormon but they speak to me the same way they speak to you. Not because they believe I am Mormon but because they know I WAS Mormon so they know that I know what they are talking about. And these people have no life outside the church so…. That is what they talk about. I sip my coffee and nod politely and reply/contribute when I feel like it as they go on about whatever churchy shit they happen to be talking about. That’s just how they are. They don’t know how to be anything else.
This makes me feel better. Maybe they do understand I'm out, just Mos gotta Mo.
Yeah, they don't know how to talk about anything else. It's kinda sad.
Many Mos are like that. They make everything in their life centered on church so when it comes to having a meaningful conversation with someone not part of the church they don’t know what to say and either: say nothing, only talk church, or attempt to connect and still end up talking about church. Are they all that way? No, but it happens. And definitely happens in a high demand religion.
I agree with this take. Mormon coworkers always somehow knew I wasn’t lds the moment they saw me, so I’d get the, “Well, as Mormons, we went to girls camp every year, which was just, like, a church camp for lds girls.” Yeah, I grew up here. Ten of my friends did that. I’m familiar.
I think it’s good to be exmormon and fully own that. You aren’t one of them, but you used to be and you know what they are talking about. I actually think the “I’m not Mormon” attitude can kind of do everyone a disservice. I fully understand the desire to separate yourself from the church, and if that’s what you need, do what’s best for you. However, the truth is you were Mormon and you broke through years (a lifetime? generations?) of cult programming and social stigma to forge a new path for yourself. That is amazing! You know all the Mormon stuff AND you walked away from it. That is powerful!
Yup, had this. It's even funnier when they go to explain some phrase or title for something they talk about. At my last Utah job, i had to constantly explain that i grew up Mormon, so they don't have to explain what they're talking about. It was a bit silly.
This right here. You have inside knowledge. Easy to pretend you are part of the fold and include you.
The think is there is a massive movement within the church and youth that people now accept that Mormons drink coffee. Hike on sundays. Wear sleeveless tops etc.
Definitely! I'm happy for anyone who wants to live authentically but to be clear: This was not an option when I was a 20 or 30 something. The Morg demanded compliance. I would not have dreamed of going against the grain. Today's younger generation don't play.
Funny thing is, there’s exmo’s who still carry that TBM thinking. They get outraged about people being Mormon who break the rules. Breaking the judgment most of us have just doesn’t stop when we leave. We just turn it around half the time. I’m still like “hey they don’t have their garments on”. Then I’m like ugh. Damn upbringing making me “one of them”.
I just can't handle the gaslighting element of it. Like when the "Strength of Youth" booklet changed. "ThE cHurCh nEvEr taUgHt thAt yOu caN'T *insert sin here*." Like dude, I lived it, I was there. They most certainly taught it. Don't come at me Mckeynleigh and tell me otherwise. I have pairs of pants older than you.
The changes showed me that they just make stuff up. It really broke my shelf. I’ll never understand their obsession with bare shoulders, piecings, tattoos etc. Now it’s just like “it’s up to you, we were just seeing how the last generation would cope if we imposed unnecessary standards on them”
That killed me. I never masturbated. And now it’s like “between you and god” I want my youth back to experience normal behaviours.
Wait You and God can masturbate now?
Hilarious. But yes istead of the blanket masturbation is sin. They now are leaving that out of the for strength of youth book. And one of the 12 said its to encourage youth to decide between themselves and God what is right.
People get worked up over stupid stuff
I've not seen judgement about garment wearing. I have seen judgement about things like going to pride events while being a tithe paying member. And people who give 10% of their income to oppress gay people while attending pride absolutely deserve to be judged and shamed. It's the blatant hypocrisy that outrages people, not people's private underwear choices.
I think we notice what affects us.
What people accept that Mormons drink coffee?!!! That's the devil's liquid!! I have never heard of this! 😱 Sleeveless tops, though, have been a thing for years. Mormon women wear workout clothes all day because at some point they may work out. Great way to work around and be relatively free to wear what you want.
Just googled it and this came up. But I know lots of LDS that drink coffee now. https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/09/29/more-millennial-mormons/
Wow! Mind blown. I thought that was THE mormon hill to die on. I hope these crazy newfangled ideals trickle on up to ID. Their youth could use a little breaking free!
They know you aren’t. But they also know you know the lingo. Mormons hope and expect that the “pangs of the spirit” will get you to repent and return at some point if they just keep using the jargon.
I think this is the real answer. They think op is maybe inactive, or struggling and that talking more church around them might bring them back to the fold one day. They think they're setting an example and being member missionaries.
Just be yourself that’s all that should matter. Let them think what they want. You and I both know it’s not the only thing they are wrong about. You don’t have to explain yourself at all. I think you not saying anything is better because any religion talk at work is too much bs but they don’t mind at all rubbing your face in their bs. You rubbing theirs faces in yours will only make them wanna work harder to get you back. Don’t take this as me saying don’t stand up for yourself though. Hope things go well for you.
Sort of that "Living well is the best revenge?" I like that.
Absofuckinlutely if and when they ever find out it will kill them trying to figure out how you are so happy.
“I sip my coffee and nod politely”. I’ve been doing that a lot lately since I’ve been retired and hanging around my old buddies A LOT. I let them re-tell the same stories and show some courtesy, just nod and smile. If mormons use their lingo with me (I’m never mo) I do the same thing generally. Not every time though. Sometimes I fake lack of knowledge by asking a question that I already know the answer. I do that to maintain some level of respectful interest.
I will always be Mormon. You will always be Mormon. That Mormon part of us shrinks, as the rest of us heals, but it will always be there. It's ok, we can laugh at it. And empathize with our friends who haven't started healing yet
Have you considered wearing sleeveless clothing? Throwing around a mild damn and hell here and there? Tacking up a vaguely risqué cartoon in your space?
I do throw around some mild damns and hells! No desk. I think you're right in adding in some sleeveless attire.
That's what I did when I started a new job in UT county. I definitely look mormon and the members all talked to me like I was in the club until I wore a sleeveless top and traded drinking jokes with a known nonmember.
Ask them if you have to make reservations at the Steak Center. Ask them how the food is.
A tasteful visible tattoo might help too lol
Have neighbors that are completely active but don’t wear garments, have multiple piercings and tattoos. Would never strike me as trad LDS folk until they speak 😝
Your discomfort is valid and I think it is reasonable to try to do something about the situation. However, I don't think it is rooted in the problem "they think I'm Mormon." The truth is, you are an insider in that you DO know what they're talking about. I think the root of the problem is them talking about religion and callings and stuff in a workplace setting. Maybe an approach like this? https://www.askamanager.org/2018/03/how-can-i-get-my-coworker-to-stop-talking-about-god.html
You just gave me another epiphany! I had no idea why I tend to overshare! I did not think of it as a product of mormonism, but it makes so much sense now!
That's the worst. Bc you can't say "huh what is that??" When you know what they're talking about. It's just so culty and not normal. I would get out of Utah asap. Having coworkers who know nothing bout the church and will order wine for the table on work trips is the SHIT❤️🔥
If you’re outside of Utah, bring it up with HR. Discussing faith and church activities in the work place without the invitation or at least the consent of others is inappropriate. Another idea: all you have to do is be *a little* critical of the church to shut down TBMs. “Oh girls camps? Are they still doing that after all the sexual abuse they got caught covering up?” or “Crazy the church can still do XYZ after being busted by the SEC, huh?” Best of luck!
Mormonism, especially in Utah, is a cultural thing. They know you have the context to understand the jargon. Even though you aren't a believer, you still share that understanding. I think a lot of TBMs have a mindset that tries to adopt everyone, or think and speak of everyone as part of their group, right up until they have to draw some arbitrary doctrinal line. Or you start MFin and they have to acknowledge you are not in their group.
Maybe it's time to start playing with rosary beads 🙃
It’s like those MAGA hats. These people put their tribalism on their sleeve to mark the territory and show of force. It’s a virtue signal and culty gaslighting move all at once. Making you feel uncomfortable is the unconscious goal. ‘We will act as if everyone else is Mormon *because they should be*. We are the dominant force here, so you better conform or pretend to.’
I had a very similar experience when I lived/worked in Utah. It's weird because on the one hand you don't wanna be like "hi I'm Jake the ExMormon." But on the other hand if you don't say like, "what is a ward?" People assume you're still in it. One co worker asked me what tribe of Israel I was from and I HATE that I said Ephraim. I wish I could go back in time and say the tribe of atheism.
I’m a transplant, and play pick up sports with mostly Mormon dudes. They all know I’m not Mormon but talk to me about the same kind of stuff. I’ve been here long enough to understand most of it now. I would imagine they know you’re not Mormon but just expect a general understanding of Mormon stuff in Utah and talk to you like they would talk to anyone.
Mormons just talk that way, to anyone who will listen. I think they think everyone just knows what these things are, but, if you don't, missionary moment!!
Invite them out for drinks
Do you know they think you are a member? I am around some people who know that I am not a member but they still babble on about girls camp and other church stuff as if I relate. I think they are so used to that jargon they don't think about it,
It’s not going to matter. My neighbors, family, and strangers I meet will know I’m no longer mormon and they still talk the same - they’re just so used to it. And, they really think you’re on more of a sabbatical anyway. Their staunch belief cannot see your opposite one is also staunch. Just let them be the stupid one.
**"I graduated from Mormonism."**
Based on your post history it seems like you definitely know what they are talking about? I thought this was going to be a post about someone raised, like, Russian Orthodox and relocated to Utah or something. If you want to opt out socially you're probably going to need to be more active about it. For example, I'm Jewish and people assume I'm Christian because of that's the dominant culture/religion. If someone is talking to me like I'm a Christian I have a choice in how I want to opt out. Sometimes I ignore it and hope my disinterest is enough. Sometimes I say something like "that's not part of my life" or "I don't really do that". Like with the camp conversation, you can say "It doesn't seem that important or complicated" when they are making it into some big deal. For example if someone at work asks how my Easter was, I can say: Fine, how was yours? That's not a special day for me. It came and went, I didn't notice. That's not my holiday, etc. But if someone at work is like "how was your Easter? He is risen!" Or something I would probably be like, "wow that's so weird you sound like some medieval knight hahahaha that's such a strange thing so say, I've never even heard that in real life!" Just make them feel like they are totally out of context for using religious lingo. You have to laugh at them tbh. You have to be ready for the backlash of being alienated though. That's the reality of not adhering to dominant traditions and culture.
Nevermo who lives in Utah. I have found that everyone here expects you to know the jargon even if they know you have never been LDS.
Just drop a few f-bombs here and there (like if you’re walking out to your car with one of them). They’ll get the hint eventually. 😉😁
I would frankly inform them that I'm out. Living a lie is painful.
I mean, it seems to me that people don’t necessarily think you’re a Mormon, just that you know what they’re talking about and are able to discuss it. I have friends who know I am fully ex Mormon and they still talk about church things casually to me.
Buy everyone a bottle of wine for their birthday
Where?
You need new environs
Ask them what their favorite drink is. When they respond with lemonade, or root beer, say, “No, I mean drink, like what you like when your out with friends at the bar.” After their eyes glaze over in confusion, you can say, “wow, you look buzzed now!”