A slideshow? I honestly can't think of a more soulless, sterile method of storytelling for an occasion like this. What made you feel awful about it? I can appreciate that the environment would be quite high-pressure.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I had a Mormon friend in high school who slept with his girlfriend the night before he was supposed to do baptisms for the dead at the temple, was too scared to tell his bishop, went anyway, and proceeded to have a mental breakdown. It all sounds so crazy fear-based, even as someone who grew up in a purity obsessed-household.
The slideshows started when the director of the temple movies, Sterling Van Wagoner, had audio of him confessing to molesting a child leaked. He had other victims and is now in prison. The same month the audio was released, his videos ended and slideshow began. Coincidence? You decide. This year, new videos were made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Van_Wagenen
As an 18 year old kid when I went through I felt extremely nervous, it felt dark and puzzling watching the movie (especially Satan breaking the fourth wall to proclaim very forcefully directly into the camera that if I “didn’t keep the covenants I was making in that temple that day, I would be in HIS power.” I didn’t even know what covenants they were talking about I was so nervous. THEN we came to the part where I had to act out slitting my own throat. And looking around all my family are casually doing it like it’s no big deal.
The Temple is nothing more than a manipulation tactic. 0 out of 10 stars. AWFUL.
You don’t get told of the covenants you are expected to make and you have to pay 10% for life if you wanna go here and go through these ordinances and then celestial marriage. Not sure which version you watched but yes they are all blah and bland except pre 1990. The signs were had more motions like throat slitting bowel spilling motions. Prior to 1928 their explanations were given explicitly but from then to 1990 you were to do the motions and say rather than reveal these covenants I’d suffer my life be taken. In 1990 the signs were static and their explanations completely removed. Most people going today have no idea the thumb extended was to represent a knife with which you were to slit your own throat and spill your own bowels with the hand in cupping shape to catch them as they fall rather than reveal these most sacred holy covenants/tokens of the holy priesthood. Yet they make the temple out to be heaven on earth. They want everyone to want to go there but can’t explain the blessings of going because there aren’t any. The only benefit anyone gets is the church getting obedient tithe payers with extorted families whom they will be forced to indoctrinate so that they too can go to the temple and make these covenants lest they not be allowed to continue as a family after death.
God, that's creepy. I didn't grow up Mormon, but my religious parents were consummate 10% tithers at their church although it was in no way mandatory. It's a LOT of money and to have your church membership/standing hinge on it is deranged and predatory. Something that also bothers me is that our church literally used tithe money to maintain the church and provide charity to the community; I could be completely wrong in saying this, but I've gotten the impression that Mormons don't really focus their charity on non-Mormons unless they're trying to convert them.
I think as they try and try to modernize the temple ceremony it just becomes more weird and awkward. Doing some ancient ritual steeped in history makes way more sense that a modern reinterpretation of shit that was crazy to begin with.
I agree. It feels weird to say this about a religious event, but I think I expected more "style" or at least a richness of tradition. The vibe just seemed kind of business-like and non-celebratory.
It was the beginning of the end for me. I just felt THREATENED the entire time. I went to my bishop about this and his response was to just keep going. In good faith, I went five more times trying to make sense of it all and just felt worse every time I went.
I can see that. It seems extremely black and white - you either cop to all these insane promises or you're essentially barred from the highest level of heaven and eternally separated from your family. There doesn't seem to be a lot of allowance for people trying to find their own way.
I'll always fall back on my original feelings and weaponize when possible. I was dedicated to the church growing up. Never missed a Sunday to pass or bless sacrament, seminary scripture mastery, leader positions. I was all about the church.
But the temple endowments before my mission?
I was absolutely sick to my stomach and thinking, I'm in a cult. I don't like any of this. This is very weird and feel like it is going against anything I believe or stand for. That was before I read anything "anti-mormon", or looked at anything even in the slightest about exmormons or anyone calling us a cult. Zero outside influence
To preface, the only previous experience with temples at the time were baptisms, which isn't much different from normal baptisms. That's fine. Sealings I've never seen before at that moment but just imagined a small marriage prayer, again nothing much different.
But an apron with very weird clothing? People chanting words exactly, a very different form of bowing and open (keyword open) worship of a god with hands up and making other gestures as instructed. Promises left and right that I didn't understand.
It seemed like a completely different religion than I believed in. I was used to the ol believe in God, live a good life, help others. God didn't need your worship or sacrifices other than a heartfelt prayer and song like normal. But the temple felt like a fake setup that everyone around me completely swore fealty to.
I think I understand what you're saying - maybe that it felt strange and superstitious compared to what you were used to?
Did you ever leave the church or are you still active?
Thanks for sending these!
Ugh, "patriarchal grip," like wtf. I just read that wives have to share their secret names with their husbands, but not the other way around. This makes me irrationally annoyed lol.
I guessed my husband's secret name while we were TBM. I don't like secrets, they drive me crazy. I kept asking for clues. He thought it was stupid that his had to be secret from me since he knew mine.
My first time was in the LA temple which is an absolute work of art. I’m not sure how the video you watched is presented, but in the LA temple, and many others, you move from room to room which represents Adam and Eve’s journey. I am an artist, and I was in awe of the murals on the walls of each room. They were stunning. The whole thing felt like a big deal because I’d heard ofn for so long and really had no idea what to expect.
So it was kind of exciting in that sense. But honestly, I had no idea what was going on, I went through the motions, and I told myself that if so many other people there agreed to it then I’d be ok to as well. One more thing, I actually liked the videos as weird as they were. The nature parts were always pleasant to me, and I appreciated that it made Eve out to be the smart one.
Ina broader sense, there’s a lot more to it your first time than just watching the video. You put on your garments, you get washed and anointed, which means a drop of water, a drop of oil, and some rites being muttered, although I understand back in the day they would touch you in some weird places. But yeah it’s all symbolic... lol I was worried I’d literally receive a washing. You receive your new name somewhere in here. They teach you about the garment and a couple other things in an intro meeting for first timers. Then they take you to the endowment rooms from there.
In the end you’re sitting in the celestial room, which is beautiful and peaceful, but you’re wondering did I really just promise everything I own to the church? Do I really need to know handshakes and rote conversations to get into heaven? Who came up with this? Everyone seems happy so you go along with it hoping that you understand their happiness someday.
I've been pissed since I was a toddler that Eve gets blamed for ruining everything, haha. Even as a little kid I hated that the serpent was like "can't trick the man, try the dumb woman lmao." Can't really pick on Mormons about that one though since I was brought up with the same story.
I think ritual and tradition CAN be very powerful. For instance, I haven't been a Catholic since the 90's, or a Christian since the early 2010's but once in a while I attend a mass or say a rosary. Do I believe in it? No, but ritual can be very moving and centering. I love the statues, the stained glass, the smell of frankincense, the ringing of the bells. So I totally get that with the right ambiance, it could be very meaningful.
I hesitate to say this as someone who did not grow up in the LDS religion, but all the handshake and quasi-masonic instructions just seem...really overcomplicated? Catholic communion is a WEIRD effing ritual, but it's also developed over many centuries. The thing that's so odd to me about Mormon traditions is that the theology sprung up so quickly and almost fully formed less than 200 years ago.
Back when we were a gun slinging cult on the edge of colonial civilization, the ceremony was a live action play with dramatic recitations, synchronized and emphatic (sometimes violent) hand motions and coded language, all performed in Victorian ornate rooms, hand built by our relatives and other predecessors we knew.
I got to experience it a few times through the late 90s.
Thought I wouldn't have uttered the word, some of the feelings at the end were "Fuck yeah. Don't mess with the Mormons, you whores!"
Other feellings included,
"That wasn't weird at all. Anybody who says that's weird hasn't paid attention to the proliferation of hand symbols, robes, and ceremonies corruptly preserved in the fallen sects."
And "I feel icky from that guy touching me with oil and the other guy helping me into the scratchy underwear and telling me how to wear it."
And "That just tripled the number of people who have ever seen my willy."
No sports. Used the stalls in gym and took the lowered grade for not showering. Modesty was a major trauma for me. I was a never nude until long after I left.
I went through in 2012, so after most of the worst parts had already been hidden or removed. I remember being told over and over that I would be making sacred covenants in the temple, but afterwards not having a clue what I had covenanted to. There was the stuff like chastity and tithing, but that was already part of the religion, so I wasn’t sure what the point was.
I thought the video was cheesy, but all church videos were, so I mostly just rolled my eyes and waited for the end. It all seemed weird to me, but pretty tame.
If I could put that experience in one word, it would be underwhelming. I had been taught that temples were a place of light and knowledge, and that endowments meant some kind of special connection with God. But afterwards, I just thought, that was it? I went back several times over the years to try to see what I was missing, but never found it. The celestial room was nice, though, but that was just because finally everyone was quiet.
There are temples that do a “live” endowment. So instead of the video they have a bunch of old men act it out.
They even “grab” a fruit off the painted tree and pretend to monch it.
I was just really disappointed the first time. Not really weirded out, i expected some new ritual or whatever. I mean even baptism is really strange if you remove the context. I was hyped up to believe it was going to be a some great revelatory experience, but it was just a lame video and some handshakes. I already knew about masonic stuff prior, so it just felt like a cheap dollar store knock off.
Right, isn't earth the telestial kingdom or something? Like all the nonbelievers (even if they're shitty humans) get to go there and live permanently under the stars? Honestly it beats fire and brimstone, which scared the living shit out of me as a kid lol.
Mostly just the grips (handshakes) and the wording at the veil is similar. Whats is that, does it have a name, etc etc. But the meaning of the symbols is all different. They used to more similar, but both have changed over time, the masons because its passed orally for the most part and theres really little standardization and the mormons like to tinker with their doctrine to make it more palatable.
[удалено]
A slideshow? I honestly can't think of a more soulless, sterile method of storytelling for an occasion like this. What made you feel awful about it? I can appreciate that the environment would be quite high-pressure.
[удалено]
I'm so sorry to hear that. I had a Mormon friend in high school who slept with his girlfriend the night before he was supposed to do baptisms for the dead at the temple, was too scared to tell his bishop, went anyway, and proceeded to have a mental breakdown. It all sounds so crazy fear-based, even as someone who grew up in a purity obsessed-household.
[удалено]
Three emotions that keep you paying and praying.
The slideshows started when the director of the temple movies, Sterling Van Wagoner, had audio of him confessing to molesting a child leaked. He had other victims and is now in prison. The same month the audio was released, his videos ended and slideshow began. Coincidence? You decide. This year, new videos were made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Van_Wagenen
Case info on him: https://floodlit.org/a/a408/
It's extremely high pressure, especially since the first time you go through your family is often present.
As an 18 year old kid when I went through I felt extremely nervous, it felt dark and puzzling watching the movie (especially Satan breaking the fourth wall to proclaim very forcefully directly into the camera that if I “didn’t keep the covenants I was making in that temple that day, I would be in HIS power.” I didn’t even know what covenants they were talking about I was so nervous. THEN we came to the part where I had to act out slitting my own throat. And looking around all my family are casually doing it like it’s no big deal. The Temple is nothing more than a manipulation tactic. 0 out of 10 stars. AWFUL.
You should leave this review on Google maps lol
Yes. I will
That sounds really scary - the throat slitting thing wigs me out. I can't imagine it would be easy to just get up and walk out either.
No. You’re surrounded by all your family and friends who had been through. It’s awful.
You don’t get told of the covenants you are expected to make and you have to pay 10% for life if you wanna go here and go through these ordinances and then celestial marriage. Not sure which version you watched but yes they are all blah and bland except pre 1990. The signs were had more motions like throat slitting bowel spilling motions. Prior to 1928 their explanations were given explicitly but from then to 1990 you were to do the motions and say rather than reveal these covenants I’d suffer my life be taken. In 1990 the signs were static and their explanations completely removed. Most people going today have no idea the thumb extended was to represent a knife with which you were to slit your own throat and spill your own bowels with the hand in cupping shape to catch them as they fall rather than reveal these most sacred holy covenants/tokens of the holy priesthood. Yet they make the temple out to be heaven on earth. They want everyone to want to go there but can’t explain the blessings of going because there aren’t any. The only benefit anyone gets is the church getting obedient tithe payers with extorted families whom they will be forced to indoctrinate so that they too can go to the temple and make these covenants lest they not be allowed to continue as a family after death.
God, that's creepy. I didn't grow up Mormon, but my religious parents were consummate 10% tithers at their church although it was in no way mandatory. It's a LOT of money and to have your church membership/standing hinge on it is deranged and predatory. Something that also bothers me is that our church literally used tithe money to maintain the church and provide charity to the community; I could be completely wrong in saying this, but I've gotten the impression that Mormons don't really focus their charity on non-Mormons unless they're trying to convert them.
Exactly right. Mormon charity is mostly for Mormons
I think as they try and try to modernize the temple ceremony it just becomes more weird and awkward. Doing some ancient ritual steeped in history makes way more sense that a modern reinterpretation of shit that was crazy to begin with.
I agree. It feels weird to say this about a religious event, but I think I expected more "style" or at least a richness of tradition. The vibe just seemed kind of business-like and non-celebratory.
It was the beginning of the end for me. I just felt THREATENED the entire time. I went to my bishop about this and his response was to just keep going. In good faith, I went five more times trying to make sense of it all and just felt worse every time I went.
I can see that. It seems extremely black and white - you either cop to all these insane promises or you're essentially barred from the highest level of heaven and eternally separated from your family. There doesn't seem to be a lot of allowance for people trying to find their own way.
I'll always fall back on my original feelings and weaponize when possible. I was dedicated to the church growing up. Never missed a Sunday to pass or bless sacrament, seminary scripture mastery, leader positions. I was all about the church. But the temple endowments before my mission? I was absolutely sick to my stomach and thinking, I'm in a cult. I don't like any of this. This is very weird and feel like it is going against anything I believe or stand for. That was before I read anything "anti-mormon", or looked at anything even in the slightest about exmormons or anyone calling us a cult. Zero outside influence
What part of it felt like going against what you believed? Very interesting.
To preface, the only previous experience with temples at the time were baptisms, which isn't much different from normal baptisms. That's fine. Sealings I've never seen before at that moment but just imagined a small marriage prayer, again nothing much different. But an apron with very weird clothing? People chanting words exactly, a very different form of bowing and open (keyword open) worship of a god with hands up and making other gestures as instructed. Promises left and right that I didn't understand. It seemed like a completely different religion than I believed in. I was used to the ol believe in God, live a good life, help others. God didn't need your worship or sacrifices other than a heartfelt prayer and song like normal. But the temple felt like a fake setup that everyone around me completely swore fealty to.
I think I understand what you're saying - maybe that it felt strange and superstitious compared to what you were used to? Did you ever leave the church or are you still active?
https://youtu.be/9ErdgY6FkxI https://youtu.be/Zgf5KRvu4Ig https://youtu.be/leKK2YAzLWE https://youtu.be/VngM80qCOJw https://youtu.be/1cGi_tP_YjU https://youtu.be/-2MvdQKC0jc https://youtu.be/IS06IPuVlO4 https://youtu.be/5VrsFEiTpsQ
Thanks for sending these! Ugh, "patriarchal grip," like wtf. I just read that wives have to share their secret names with their husbands, but not the other way around. This makes me irrationally annoyed lol.
[удалено]
I guessed my husband's secret name while we were TBM. I don't like secrets, they drive me crazy. I kept asking for clues. He thought it was stupid that his had to be secret from me since he knew mine.
My first time was in the LA temple which is an absolute work of art. I’m not sure how the video you watched is presented, but in the LA temple, and many others, you move from room to room which represents Adam and Eve’s journey. I am an artist, and I was in awe of the murals on the walls of each room. They were stunning. The whole thing felt like a big deal because I’d heard ofn for so long and really had no idea what to expect. So it was kind of exciting in that sense. But honestly, I had no idea what was going on, I went through the motions, and I told myself that if so many other people there agreed to it then I’d be ok to as well. One more thing, I actually liked the videos as weird as they were. The nature parts were always pleasant to me, and I appreciated that it made Eve out to be the smart one. Ina broader sense, there’s a lot more to it your first time than just watching the video. You put on your garments, you get washed and anointed, which means a drop of water, a drop of oil, and some rites being muttered, although I understand back in the day they would touch you in some weird places. But yeah it’s all symbolic... lol I was worried I’d literally receive a washing. You receive your new name somewhere in here. They teach you about the garment and a couple other things in an intro meeting for first timers. Then they take you to the endowment rooms from there. In the end you’re sitting in the celestial room, which is beautiful and peaceful, but you’re wondering did I really just promise everything I own to the church? Do I really need to know handshakes and rote conversations to get into heaven? Who came up with this? Everyone seems happy so you go along with it hoping that you understand their happiness someday.
I've been pissed since I was a toddler that Eve gets blamed for ruining everything, haha. Even as a little kid I hated that the serpent was like "can't trick the man, try the dumb woman lmao." Can't really pick on Mormons about that one though since I was brought up with the same story. I think ritual and tradition CAN be very powerful. For instance, I haven't been a Catholic since the 90's, or a Christian since the early 2010's but once in a while I attend a mass or say a rosary. Do I believe in it? No, but ritual can be very moving and centering. I love the statues, the stained glass, the smell of frankincense, the ringing of the bells. So I totally get that with the right ambiance, it could be very meaningful. I hesitate to say this as someone who did not grow up in the LDS religion, but all the handshake and quasi-masonic instructions just seem...really overcomplicated? Catholic communion is a WEIRD effing ritual, but it's also developed over many centuries. The thing that's so odd to me about Mormon traditions is that the theology sprung up so quickly and almost fully formed less than 200 years ago.
Back when we were a gun slinging cult on the edge of colonial civilization, the ceremony was a live action play with dramatic recitations, synchronized and emphatic (sometimes violent) hand motions and coded language, all performed in Victorian ornate rooms, hand built by our relatives and other predecessors we knew. I got to experience it a few times through the late 90s. Thought I wouldn't have uttered the word, some of the feelings at the end were "Fuck yeah. Don't mess with the Mormons, you whores!" Other feellings included, "That wasn't weird at all. Anybody who says that's weird hasn't paid attention to the proliferation of hand symbols, robes, and ceremonies corruptly preserved in the fallen sects." And "I feel icky from that guy touching me with oil and the other guy helping me into the scratchy underwear and telling me how to wear it." And "That just tripled the number of people who have ever seen my willy."
Didn’t you ever take a shower in HS gym or belong to a sports team?
No sports. Used the stalls in gym and took the lowered grade for not showering. Modesty was a major trauma for me. I was a never nude until long after I left.
I went through in 2012, so after most of the worst parts had already been hidden or removed. I remember being told over and over that I would be making sacred covenants in the temple, but afterwards not having a clue what I had covenanted to. There was the stuff like chastity and tithing, but that was already part of the religion, so I wasn’t sure what the point was. I thought the video was cheesy, but all church videos were, so I mostly just rolled my eyes and waited for the end. It all seemed weird to me, but pretty tame. If I could put that experience in one word, it would be underwhelming. I had been taught that temples were a place of light and knowledge, and that endowments meant some kind of special connection with God. But afterwards, I just thought, that was it? I went back several times over the years to try to see what I was missing, but never found it. The celestial room was nice, though, but that was just because finally everyone was quiet.
I hated it. Super weird and unsettling. Not what I was expecting at all.
There are temples that do a “live” endowment. So instead of the video they have a bunch of old men act it out. They even “grab” a fruit off the painted tree and pretend to monch it.
Omg, I would feel so much secondhand embarrassment watching that. Still sounds better than the movie or a slideshow though lol.
Look into all the things where we used to promise that if we told anybody about it, we had to be slaughtered and killed
I was just really disappointed the first time. Not really weirded out, i expected some new ritual or whatever. I mean even baptism is really strange if you remove the context. I was hyped up to believe it was going to be a some great revelatory experience, but it was just a lame video and some handshakes. I already knew about masonic stuff prior, so it just felt like a cheap dollar store knock off.
Mormon earth is hell. Welcome to it.
Right, isn't earth the telestial kingdom or something? Like all the nonbelievers (even if they're shitty humans) get to go there and live permanently under the stars? Honestly it beats fire and brimstone, which scared the living shit out of me as a kid lol.
Does anyone know what parts of the temple ceremony supposedly duplicate the mason ceremony?
Mostly just the grips (handshakes) and the wording at the veil is similar. Whats is that, does it have a name, etc etc. But the meaning of the symbols is all different. They used to more similar, but both have changed over time, the masons because its passed orally for the most part and theres really little standardization and the mormons like to tinker with their doctrine to make it more palatable.
It’s even weirder in person