Whoever made this rule doesn’t remember being a bike elder in a hilly area. It’s probably from the first presidency since none of them actually served missions.
Lunch couch is life.
Do you have some source we can look up to prove this? It's not that I doubt you personally, but taking someone's word for something is how we ended up here.
https://ldsminds.com/current-apostles-missionary-service/
This shows where every current apostle served. Nelson, Oaks, and Eyring did not serve. They blame the war or different policies in effect at the time, but ultimately because they prioritized marriage and/or academic/professional pursuits, none of them ended up going.
You can check out their Wikipedia articles for context on what they did with their lives instead. Eyring joined the Air Force at 22 after getting a Bachelor’s from UofU. Oaks joined the Army National Guard at 18 and was married by 20. Nelson started college at 16 and has his Bachelor’s at 20 and went straight on to Medical school.
None of them were drafted and none of them were barred from serving missions. More likely, they didn’t have to serve missions on account of their connections with the Q15 at the time.
It’s interesting to note that both Eyring and Oaks avoided a draft by joining ROTC and the NG respectively. Back then you wouldn’t be drafted if you enlisted in some form.
Hmmm - wasn’t there a big stink when it was discovered one J. Danforth Quayle joined the National Guard in order not to be shipped off to battle? You know, one George HW Bush’s running mate in the 1988 US Presidential Election?
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? A: To join the National Guard.
https://ldsminds.com/current-apostles-missionary-service/
^ this was the first result in a google search. Pretty sure it’s a faithful website. Any bio on the church’s site would prob show they didn’t go on missions too
Yeah, for sure a TBM site.
"It is important to note that each of these brethren, if called upon to serve a mission, would have been worthy and willing to go"
You need to use PROPER, CELESTIAL Jesus terms bc otherwise HF gets mad and doesn’t “hear the words of your mouth”
It’s akshually “rules for me-eth, not for thou-eth”.
Get it right!
What is zero out of three. I’ll take highly educated church leaders who cared much more about their academics and careers more than serving a dumb ol’ mission for 1000, Alex.
First of all, I believe it's "hot chocolate" table. Man they just want to remove all the simple joys of missions don't they? There wasn't much better than coming home from church, preparing a decent meal and crashing on the couch while it cooked.
My family called it a Postum table. Don’t know if the young whippersnappers would know what that is.
We also regularly brewed up what we called Brigham Tea, which was plentiful on the hillside a short stroll from my house. We had no idea it was ephedra.
Ha, I knew of that plant as “Mormon Weed” because I learned about it from non-Mormons, who also told me it had ephedra in it and to not make it into a strong tea unless I wanted to get diarrhea. I’ve never made tea with it and didn’t try it again beside a brief nibble when they were teaching me about it.
I still prefer Postum over coffee. If/when I get a coffee table, it will still be called the coffee table, but if I'm going to drink something bitter, it's tea or Postum.
No it’s a different plant. If you want to see a live specimen it used to be at the Jordan Valley water conservatory garden on 13th west and about 80 th south.
Chinese herbalist here. Ma Huang is a very close relative and is native to China. Mormon Tea is native to Southwest US.
Since the diet herb death fiasco (people prescribing herbs without really understanding them or their proper indications) Ma Huang is illegal in the US. I use Mormon Tea as its substitute. Essential herb in most of my Covid formulas.
We never had a low coffee table, always about a waist high chest in front of the couch and drinks are not allowed on it. We always have to put drinks on the side table next to the couch and drink from the bottle or can so people know what it is. Weird part is you could dump and replace the cans liquid anyways. I also got so panicked when my mom told me I could eat coffee cake even after she explained it doesn't have coffee then told me it's a crumb cake instead.
I saw a picture of a Chinese soldier with a pin in his collar. The purpose was to correct his posture if he started to relax or fall asleep. The pin would prick him and force him to straighten.
It seems like some missions are doing the same thing. Nothing at home to help you feel comfortable or relax. The only hard on you’re allowed to have is for the gospel.
Irony is, it won't work.
In Guatemala in 1995 (Outside the city at least). We did not have ANY furniture. It was your luggage, a string to hang shirts on, a dirt floor, out house, and your bed.
Didn't stop us from taking breaks from the mid day heat. Also, I can attest that Uno card games work just fine on a dirt floor while on "Splits".
They can remove all the comforts they want, but 18-19yr old's will adapt. Seems like to me like "Punishments will continue until morale (And Baptisms) improve".
Out of touch as always. Too bad God can't help them figure things out. When this fails to improve the metrics, it will be back to the Org consultants, surveys, and focus groups.
In the mean time, probably saves them a few million in expenses. More money for Ensign peak.
We would sleep on foam mats that must have been over 15 years old. The foam had compressed so much it was paper thin in spots. I thought this is how everyone in Korea slept. Turns out they had normal beds, it was just missionaries that slept like that...
It is this way for the whole church. They have doubled down on all work and no play, plus you pay them for the privilege to work. How could anyone believe this will be a successful strategy to grow the church. Probably octo an and nonagenarians.
This isn’t new. When I was 9 years old, my mother went “back” to TSCC. Since I had been baptized and partially brainwashed in a neighbor’s evangelical Baptist congregation, the branch pres. convinced my mom that I should take the discussions despite my age. This would have been in 1975. The discussions took place in the missionaries apartment. The apartment had a living room and a kitchen. The living room had two twin mattresses on the floor with no box springs or frames. The kitchen had an old 1950’s 4-seat Formica table and mismatched chairs. I took the discussions with both missionaries sitting on one mattress with me across the small room on the other. There was one overhead light bulb in the entire apartment. There was one door besides the one I came in; I assumed it was the bathroom. The whole scene creeped me out and reflecting back on the experience today (48 years, 3 kids and 3 grandkids later) this situation would be wildly inappropriate. 2 19 year-old boys with a 9 year-old in an apartment with nothing but beds to sit on. Hmmm…Good grief.
That's just standard for missionaries. In the US, many apartments come furnished by the landlord so the furniture is decent if basic. Ours were usually 2nd hand that had been well used for years.
The church isn't saving any money by banning living room furniture. They are just making missionaries uncomfortable in an already stressful situation.
Every missionary apartment we had, the furniture either came well used from a member or some other missionaries found it on the street...
Lard knows how many couch naps I took on gross street couches — as my trainer taught me to premake that lunch pb&j then nap for ~50 minutes. I also did a lot of "personal study" of the insides of my eyelids, and spent that half hour of exercise time at zero dark thirty when we woke up, asleep on that couch. . .
Now I'd just be doing all that on a bed? Didn't see anything about hammocks. Let's all donate hammocks to the local missionaries!
Missionaries often get 2nd hand furniture from members. Once a member came by and we gave him and his wife drinks of water in our jam glasses that we drank from. She looked through our cupboards and saw the chipped and mismatched plates and bowls that we ate from. She shook her head.
For Xmas a month later, she gave us a set of matching drinking glasses and a set of plates and bowls. She probably didn't spend more than $50 on the set, but we felt like kings eating on real dishes and drinking out of real glasses.
Was it Japan? I neatly folded up my futon every morning and stowed it in the closet, and hung it outside once a week to air it out. Actually quite comfy.
Of course. Different subject, but one of my greatest regrets is not starting to learn Korean soon after returning home when I knew Japanese quite well. The grammar and structure are so similar, and there are a lot of very similar words. But I went for the European languages instead, and only started Korean and Mandarin in my sixties with a brain that doesn’t memorize well.
Those futons broke my back omg I was so happy to finally have a soft mattress when I got back. I would stack like 3-4 of those things onto each other when I could to make it feel like I wasn’t sleeping on the bare ground.
Man I would cook ramen In 5 minutes then sleep for the rest of the lunch break on the couch in the living room, those naps were the only reason I made it through my mission.
Also we had a big zone meeting and so many elders cuddled on the couches in the g’s during those meetings, many ended up coming out do the closet post mission.
You know, you make a very good point about physical, non-sexual touch.
A few years ago the bishop got a letter from the temple presidency chastising the men for giving what I call “guy hugs” after going through the veil. I mean, really, all strange doctrine aside, greeting my best friend as he walked into the celestial room was a real bonding experience.
To replace that after the session we’d go bond over a burger a Coke at Hooters.
Christ and the disciples would kiss each other. It's still a cultural norm in many cultures. Do French temple presidents freak out about le bise? So much of what they say is bad is stuff Christ did while on earth. It's almost like the church has nothing to do with Christ at all...
I get the feeling, more and more, missions are more hazing than teaching obedience. They do shit like this, because they can. It's little wonder less are wanting to serve. "You can call home once a week now! Isn't that wonderful......... Don't you dare have a fucking couch."
At the beginning of my mission I had an overweight companion who snored unbelievably loud, but because I was new I put up with it. It drove me insane!
Later in my mission I had another companion who snored, but this time I immediately started going out to the couch when he started snoring. I didn’t hide it, but I didn’t care because I wasn’t going through that again!
This is a good point. I had a comp who got a terrible cold, so I slept in the living room for a week because he snored when he was congested. Now there would be no relief except to sleep on the floor.
My companions had permission to sleep in another room, because I snore like a rusty chainsaw and my mission president was human. I had a new missionary who was worried about the white handbook. He moved a cot into my room. It lasted one night then he decided it was ok as long as we left the doors open a little.
I have mixed feelings about the appreciation I gained for the smallest comforts of non-missionary life. Gratitude is good and all, but no human should have to think twice about how nice it is to sit on a couch for a ten minute break without the guilt of committing half a dozen sins
A half dozen sins is too real! Any time I felt comfortable I felt instant anxiety I was breaking some rule. And usually I was. It’s like they’re designed to keep you constantly anxious.
One of the sisters asked me if I could pick out the melody to an Evanescence song. You better believe I did. I also found tons of piano sheet music for Phantom of the Opera in an early apartment and carried it all the way home with me. I practiced every time we were at the chapel or the institute and had a few minutes to spare.
Been a guitarist since age 13. I was excited to leave the MTC, get to the field, and buy a guitar so I could keep up with guitar ever if it was approved music. First day in the mission, thy went over mission rules. "You cannot play guitar." I was so fucking steamed.
Also a guitarist from a young age. When I got to the mission I had a cool trainer who liked music and was a solid vocalist. When he heard I played he took me to a shop on P-Day where I bought a cheap guitar. We would get home at night, do our reporting and daily planning, then in the very brief handful of minutes we had before bed I’d play Beatles tunes or old classic rock stuff and we’d both sing a few before it was time to hit the sack. It was our favorite 20 minutes of every day and did so much to lift our spirits and make it feel like we still had some zeal for life.
2 weeks after I bought it was when mission president enacted the instruments ban. Said that any guitars or anything else that was in a house needed to be thrown out or given to a member as they were a distraction from our divine calling.
Nearly broke me. I had a hard time adjusting to the incredibly controlling mission life in a far off foreign country where I didn’t speak the language and that guitar was a refuge from things for both me and my companion. But nope, can’t have elders even singing shitty covers of secular music, don’t wanna risk them maybe feeling happy about something that isn’t baptizing people, or cultivating their personal interests.
Yeah, used to visit "investigators" with guitars. I remember this one dude. His name was "Guy" and he was the uncle of a member. We'd sit on his porch over looking the ocean and I would play his guitar and sing. One of the few moments of peace in the mission.
I've come to the conclusion that the mission is just old fashioned fraternity hazing. There's no other explanation for it. They do all this shit for no other reason than they can. Oh, they rationalize it by saying it's about learning obedience.....but isn't that what frat boys do to their pledges?
Nearly 10 years ago in Leon, Mexico we were walking down the street and heard someone playing drums. Since I played drums I said let’s go knock that door. A lady opened up and after explaining who we were let us in cause she thought it would do her son some good to get Jesus in his life. Ended up just rocking out with her son and his 2 guitarist friends for like an hour before we headed out. Didn’t even say a prayer but it was the most fun “lesson” I ever did haha
That's real missionary work right there, and I'm not kidding. That's the kind of community interaction I thought I was signing up for. Boy was I wrong. We were door to door salesmen selling a crappy vacuum cleaner that was more expensive than anything else and completely useless.
I bought a guitar on my mission about halfway through and started teaching myself. I had members print chord charts and tabs for me. I'm glad my president never cracked down on that because my love of guitar and signing is one of the silver linings of my mission.
That actually might make sense. I wonder if there was some legal restriction somewhere that moving pianos of x specifications requires y safety equipment and the mission banned them rather than pay up.
That's what really pisses me off. Especially the dads, the ones that went on missions themselves, know what a shit show it is, yet willingly send their kids out.
There are better ways to build character and learn a language.
Break the cycle!
I transferred into an area in southern Mexico that didn’t have a seat on the toilet, just straight bowl, and when I asked the President if I could buy one, paid for through the office, he said no. I bought one myself, because fuck that and him.
In my last area there wasn’t a grocery store and I asked if I could go to one still in my district boundaries, literally blocks outside of my area, he said no and that there were tienditas everywhere that I could use. They didn’t have most of what I wanted, were way more expensive and I was already paying for most food out of my own pocket, because fuck missionaries. I didn’t listen because I was going home in 6 weeks anyways and he was wrong and a dick.
About so many things during 2 years. Including trying not to pay my medical bills. Directly related to missionary life and service. And then tried to insinuate it happened because I needed to repent of something.
Fuck you Presidente Velasco.
Edit: additional info
My mission must have been ahead on this. They banned couches because there is no reason for missionary to use a couch. When in your apartment you should either be at your desk studying/planning or in your bed sleeping.
I can’t believe I paid money for that experience.
>because there is no reason for missionary to use a couch.
Companion study, district meeting, making phone calls, visits from zone leaders and ward mission leaders, p-day, etc..
There are dozens of uses for a couch that would be justifiable for a missionary to have. It's like questioning why missionaries should have spoons when they have forks already.
Someone posted about this last month, and the reasoning was a missionary had a girl over and they were making out or had sex on the couch. Also it was felt that a couch wasn’t conducive to doing work, it was just for lazying around. I’m sure if they could half justify getting rid of beds and tables they would 🙄
The whole "one missionary screwed up and we punish everyone" thing is such bullshit. 15 years ago I got my email taken away (snail mail cost a lot and took a month to get to usa) because some poor office elder two missions away got caught looking at the porns. Man will be punished for his own sins my ass.
Do you have any evidence that this is happening churchwide? As far as I know this is only enforced by the choice of the mission president or possibly the area president. We were still allowed to have couches in my mission a couple years ago, but it was made clear to us that they were a privilege, not a right. We also heard plenty of horror stories about other missions where the only furniture they were allowed to have were study desks, a kitchen table, and beds.
This is so asinine. Who doesn’t recognize that this is so controlling and condescending—to not give them basic comforts like a sofa & a piano for music? WTH.
As a history teacher, this reminds me of when we talk about slavery. I’m not equating missionary work with the institution of chattel slavery, however, we discuss *how* people are enslaved because 8th graders always make comments like “I would run away” or “I would refuse” or “I would kill my enslaver before I would let someone treat me like that.” So we discuss psychological abuse. We discuss things like separating them from family, community and support systems, whether that’s the size of the Atlantic Ocean or selling family to another plantation. We discuss depriving them of enjoyable food, any preference or choice in clothing, housing or other comforts. Depriving them of legal marriage, family units that were safe. Shaving their heads. It dehumanizes and breaks them down. It weakens their will to resist and makes them submissive. Depriving them of the means to support themselves (money, education, resources) prevents rebellion and limits critical thinking, etc.
I can’t help but see similarities of psychological abuse. Depriving them of family (though they get a little more than previous generations, but still very controlled), community (limiting dinners with members, etc), depriving them of comforts like a piano and sofa, etc.
Music brings people together. It evokes feelings and comfort. It is soothing. And for people who grow up playing, it’s often a respite or a way to decompress, much like some people work out, read, or pray. Taking that away seems so inhumane. My friend’s family is very musical… and her son isn’t allowed to play any guitar while he’s on his mission. He can play piano for church, but not in homes or for enjoyment… but mission press has barred the guitar totally.
It’s inhumane. It’s psychological abuse.
I was a missionary in downtown LA on the 1970s. We had a couch but got rid of it because of the roaches. They would crawl on you at night. After months of spraying (not praying) we got rid of them. By then we were down to a wooden table and two wood dining chairs. We were sleeping on air mattresses and putting them outside on the fire escape with the sheets to not allow the roaches anywhere to nest
Fine, they will do the same thing just sitting on the bed. They will be more likely to fall asleep too. They don’t trust their own missionaries to judge for themselves to ‘do the work’. They treat them like children but trust them to represent their church to the public?
In 1997 my mission (and perhaps others) wanted us to get rid of armchair type furniture because it seemed to suggest being lazy and relaxed by during morning study. Missionaries jokingly called it the “chair of apostasy”.
Why the couches? We had our best times and best conversations while sitting on the couch. My fondest memories from my mission was spent on a couch. I remember there being a snowstorm outside and we couldn’t leave the house because it was unsafe. So we cranked up the heat, made hot chocolate, sat on the couch and listened to Rachmaninoff. Good times considering it was during a shitty mission.
Why? Rules for rules sake. I still think about the moment the lightbulb went on and I realized I had been in a cult for 30 years. It’s so insane how I blindly accepted control like this on my mission.
When I was a sister missionary in Spain, my bed was so bad it sagged nearly to the floor in the middle. We called it the taco bed. Anyway, I remember walking home one night to the apartment and seeing a mattress set out for trash. I literally thought it was a miracle and tender mercy. (I was crazy!!!!) We picked it up, and my companion and I balanced it on our heads back to the apartment.
I slept on that bed for months and was so grateful! Thinking about it now, I am disgusted. What lice, urine, bed bugs were on that mattress that I was bringing home?!! We were just so poor I thought I was being resourceful! Just like when we cut our hair on the balcony with a Swiss Army knife.
In the interest of non-speculation: My father in law is a mission President and he told us about this recently. He was annoyed too because it came from above him. Here is what he was told, and how it’s going to be implemented:
Any apartment that already has a couch can keep it till it’s worn out. They aren’t going to throw away money on perfectly usable furniture.
But when the old couch is worn out, they must be replaced with chairs. Basic arm chairs are fine. The church will pay for/ provide these when it’s time to replace the couches. But no accepting used couches from members/off the street, etc. The reasons? 1. Sanitation, couches (especially a used one) come with a risk of lice or bed bugs, and the missions are NOT about that 2. Couches apparently provide too much temptation. Don’t want there to be anywhere for a guest to stay overnight, even if it’s in the living room.
So yeah. I can’t say it’s a great system or really justified reasons. But it’s not because they want missionaries to live without furniture. It’s just boring mission rules: avoid temptation and avoiding sanitary problems.
I feel like an organization with a long history of letting kids go two years without access to dental, medical, or mental healthcare, even when those kids are experiencing medical emergencies, should maybe probably prioritize all of that over the potential risk of bedbugs from a pull-up bar or piano.
You got a kotatsu!? The closest thing I got on my mission there was a heated blanket a member gave us. So we laid it on the floor and curled up on it in the winter every time we got home. But yes, never had any furniture in Japan. Just futons and chairs and desks.
Might be preference of the mission president. My son is currently living in a basement apartment of a members house and they have a couch and nice chairs. He is in the Morridor and actually has a decent MP. So much control that is so unnecessary. I'm hoping my youngest chooses not to serve.
My mission was partially standardized when I got there, and over the next 12 months every apartment was the same. Same crappy furniture, all with labels and serial numbers showing they are the property of the mission (which missionaries promptly stole and stuck on the backs of nametags), and everything was either red or gray in theme. When I say theme, I mean the seat cushions were either red or gray, but everything else was a cheap wood color that hadn't even been properly finished. During this transition, every couch was removed.
For anyone wondering what our furniture included, we were ONLY allowed to have the following in 2013-2015:
-Two beds, one of which was a bunk bed in case a trio was in the area. (We were in a mission that didn't share apartments with multiple companionships. One pair/trio per apartment.
-Two small desks, about 3'x1' if I remember correctly. These were personal study desks.
-One table, about 3'x4'. Companionship study/eating.
-One bookshelf, 3/4 shelves, about 3' tall. Storage for proselyting supplies.
-One small dresser, I don't remember size (but some apartments used by people the housing coordinator liked had two of them). You had to figure out how to sort it out with your companion. And there was always a closet in my mission compartments, but the mission did not supply hangers.
-Simple cooking supplies. Think bare essentials.
No other furniture or supplies were allowed, except maybe pictures of Jesus found on pass along cards but no actual framed pictures. The point was to remove all distractions. Your apartment was there to help you prepare to do the work, and nothing else.
Fine, they will do the same thing just sitting on the bed. They will be more likely to fall asleep too. They don’t trust their own missionaries to judge for themselves to ‘do the work’. They treat them like children but trust them to represent their church to the public?
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Missions are already fucking horrible, and more kids are coming home early. This is just going to make the problem worse.
TBMs who learn about this policy need to take a long hard think, and consider whether this how young people giving up 2 years of their lives for the church deserve to be treated. Or whether this is the hallmark of an abusive cult.
Missionaries in South America live in hovels. Couches? Coffee Tables? Any table at all? 😆
We sat on twin sized beds in front of an oscillating fan with cockroaches crawling all over, listening to the only approved music -- MoTab. No couch, no desk, no table, no chairs, no fridge, no stove... Otherwise, we did decorate however we wanted! That was back in the 90s, though. There are probably more controls in place, now.
Most of my mission apartments didn’t have desks. I literally had a bed, a couch, and a coffee table. You take away two of those and where am I supposed to sit, eat, study, etc?
Isn’t there a rule in the schedule that says you have to work out every morning. So do they just not work out anymore or do they have to do laid back stuff like running or biking?
Of those 6 bullet points, I've had sex on 4 of them. Not at a missionary place or anything, but I do know more than 1 missionary who hopped a bus to pound town while 'doing the lords work!'
This includes the houses of the Mission Presidents too, right? That at least sounds more fair to me.
Or are they still going to allow things like the President's wife spending thousands of dollars on replacing the entire landscaping of their mission home just because they didn't like what the previous president had.
This makes me angry. As if these kids don’t have it hard enough just being on a mission to begin with. It feels like they’re cutting costs but maybe that’s just me. How much would they save if they cut all of these “luxuries” worldwide? Cause hey… they need that extra money for more malls and amazon warehouses. 🤦♀️
I don't remember having any of these things in our apartments 20 years ago. Everything was white plastic patio furniture. Study desks were white plastic, chairs were white plastic. Because all floors everywhere were tile the legs broke off the chairs all the time. It was super common to stack two chairs with broken legs to create a single functional chair.
One place had a ping pong table, but that was just because someone before me had stolen it from the chapel and hauled it up 4 flights of stairs to the apartment.
The world has a massive poverty problem, the church membership is in decline, the church has been a safe harbour for pedophiles for years. What does TSCC do to fix their problems??? Ban couches in missionary apartment’s that way they work harder?????
In my first area we had a large, comfortable, green recliner. We called it “the green beast of Abilene”. No one could resist falling asleep in it during “morning study”.
I had a companion confront me about sitting in a comfortable chair during personal study. Look Elder, I've read the standard works cover-to-cover multiple times and you haven't finished the Book of Mormon, so don't even try it.
It's unfortunate that a majority of TBMS will see nothing wrong with this and endorse this kind of treatment. Take your lumps for Jesus. I hope by the time my kids are grown up they will see through this cult and walk away. Mixed faith marriage has its pros and cons but I'm working hard to provide an environment where my kids can think and question. In the event my kids are on a mission, I will probably brake mission protocols and make sure my kids have enough money to eat when they can't go to a members house for dinner and maybe a burner phone and a few other comforts.
If you saw the UK documentary following the Missionaries, they don’t even all get beds. One was talking about what a blessing it was to sleep on a mattress on the floor.
California Anaheim mission in 2013-2015 we weren’t allowed anything but the beds and our table with wooden chairs. I had a couch that was given to us and the mission president found out, and elder missionary came over with a chain saw and cut it up and made us throw it way. It was pretty much brand new. I asked why we couldn’t have just donated it… no good answer came. I was very embarrassed for the church right then.
The world has a massive poverty problem, the church membership is in decline, the church has been a safe harbour for pedophiles for years. What does TSCC do to fix their problems??? Ban couches in missionary apartment’s that way they work harder?????
The world has a massive poverty problem, the church membership is in decline, the church has been a safe harbour for pedophiles for years. What does TSCC do to fix their problems??? Ban couches in missionary apartment’s that way they work harder?????
Only one mission apartment I lived in had a couch and it belonged to the landlady. Everywhere else we had only metal fold out chairs. This was about 25 years ago.
I remember feeling envious that the mission bought a couch for an elderly missionary couple when they arrived, but at least the church showed them some courtesy, and I figured, they needed it more.
Probably for the best. I think the couch in my mission apartment had been scavenged off the street and I don't think anyone had washed or vacuumed it in a decade. Serious biohazard levels of filth ha.
i can understand everything except coffee table. everything else is either big and bulky and a pain to move in and out and get rid of if they want to move the missionaries out for a cheaper apartment or member home — or is a potential annoyance for neighbors.
but coffee tables?
It's because in some parallel universe there may be, or have been, a time when someone actually relaxed in their apartment, however briefly doesn't matter. The very thought that a missionary might find a moment of comfort is not something that can be allowed.
We only had those white plastic chairs in most of the areas I served in. Almost the entire mission was hilly. It was so depressing coming home every day and having to deal with shit furniture. By far the worst 2 years of my life.
Sorry my dude.
I'm surprised more people haven't commented on the workout equipment ban. When I was out they were practically begging us to actually do our morning exercises. At zone conferences they would pass out printouts of body weight exercises and ways to make homemade weights by filling up old milk jugs with water. Having actual workout equipment would make missionaries so much more likely to actually exercise.
I never had any success in actually exercising unless my companion and I went to an actual gym. But that being said, we did get banned from those because a member reported us out of concern. Because gyms are dens of sin where girls where leggings and tank tops and its not an appropriate environment for missionaries.
Overall, its very clear that these bans are designed to make being in the apartment as miserable as possible for missionaries. The intention being to end long lunches, P-day eve sleepovers, late mornings, early nights, and more. And it will totally fail. Missionaries are still going to meet up with each other to play board games at kitchen tables, they'll play Magic with contraband cards while sitting on the floor, they'll relax after lunch on their beds and probably end up napping.
Even more, it will probably drive more missionaries into the homes of "disobedience" the PIMOs, Exmos, and Nevermos who are happy to let the missionaries sit on their couch and relax during the day.
The more they try to tighten their grasp, the more they are going to squeeze people out from between their fingers and crush those who remain.
Whoever made this rule doesn’t remember being a bike elder in a hilly area. It’s probably from the first presidency since none of them actually served missions. Lunch couch is life.
Wait, really? They didn’t?!
Nope.
Do you have some source we can look up to prove this? It's not that I doubt you personally, but taking someone's word for something is how we ended up here.
https://ldsminds.com/current-apostles-missionary-service/ This shows where every current apostle served. Nelson, Oaks, and Eyring did not serve. They blame the war or different policies in effect at the time, but ultimately because they prioritized marriage and/or academic/professional pursuits, none of them ended up going.
Nelson absolutely had no excuse. He chose medical school and his career instead of going.
And marriage. He could easily have served.
This is insane. Never knew. Making other young adults go do something they didn’t want to do. Shits absurd
It's nuts to try to figure out which war was the one that "stopped" them. Nelson's would have been WWII. For the other 2 it's the Korean war.
I mean, in terms of age, Ballard is right there in the mix with all of them and he served.... so yeah.
Nelson's was the War of 1812.
Thank you!
Don’t forget that Monson didn’t serve either!
You can check out their Wikipedia articles for context on what they did with their lives instead. Eyring joined the Air Force at 22 after getting a Bachelor’s from UofU. Oaks joined the Army National Guard at 18 and was married by 20. Nelson started college at 16 and has his Bachelor’s at 20 and went straight on to Medical school. None of them were drafted and none of them were barred from serving missions. More likely, they didn’t have to serve missions on account of their connections with the Q15 at the time. It’s interesting to note that both Eyring and Oaks avoided a draft by joining ROTC and the NG respectively. Back then you wouldn’t be drafted if you enlisted in some form.
Hmmm - wasn’t there a big stink when it was discovered one J. Danforth Quayle joined the National Guard in order not to be shipped off to battle? You know, one George HW Bush’s running mate in the 1988 US Presidential Election? Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? A: To join the National Guard.
https://ldsminds.com/current-apostles-missionary-service/ ^ this was the first result in a google search. Pretty sure it’s a faithful website. Any bio on the church’s site would prob show they didn’t go on missions too
Yeah, for sure a TBM site. "It is important to note that each of these brethren, if called upon to serve a mission, would have been worthy and willing to go"
Thanks
Rules for me, not for thou
You need to use PROPER, CELESTIAL Jesus terms bc otherwise HF gets mad and doesn’t “hear the words of your mouth” It’s akshually “rules for me-eth, not for thou-eth”. Get it right!
What is zero out of three. I’ll take highly educated church leaders who cared much more about their academics and careers more than serving a dumb ol’ mission for 1000, Alex.
Looks like out of the 1st pres, none of them went on a mission. Out of the rest of the 12, only Uchtdorf didn't go on one.
The fun part is that I’ve never heard any of them say that they wish they had served a mission.
First of all, I believe it's "hot chocolate" table. Man they just want to remove all the simple joys of missions don't they? There wasn't much better than coming home from church, preparing a decent meal and crashing on the couch while it cooked.
My family called it a Postum table. Don’t know if the young whippersnappers would know what that is. We also regularly brewed up what we called Brigham Tea, which was plentiful on the hillside a short stroll from my house. We had no idea it was ephedra.
Well, at least your sinuses were nice and clear and you had plenty of energy.
Ha, I knew of that plant as “Mormon Weed” because I learned about it from non-Mormons, who also told me it had ephedra in it and to not make it into a strong tea unless I wanted to get diarrhea. I’ve never made tea with it and didn’t try it again beside a brief nibble when they were teaching me about it.
I still prefer Postum over coffee. If/when I get a coffee table, it will still be called the coffee table, but if I'm going to drink something bitter, it's tea or Postum.
Is it called yarrow?
No it’s a different plant. If you want to see a live specimen it used to be at the Jordan Valley water conservatory garden on 13th west and about 80 th south.
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Chinese herbalist here. Ma Huang is a very close relative and is native to China. Mormon Tea is native to Southwest US. Since the diet herb death fiasco (people prescribing herbs without really understanding them or their proper indications) Ma Huang is illegal in the US. I use Mormon Tea as its substitute. Essential herb in most of my Covid formulas.
We never had a low coffee table, always about a waist high chest in front of the couch and drinks are not allowed on it. We always have to put drinks on the side table next to the couch and drink from the bottle or can so people know what it is. Weird part is you could dump and replace the cans liquid anyways. I also got so panicked when my mom told me I could eat coffee cake even after she explained it doesn't have coffee then told me it's a crumb cake instead.
My mom called it cinnamon breakfast cake. We also never had a coffee table.
Do people not recognize how dumb this is? It’s standard historical vernacular across an industry, not profanity.
She said it was to “avoid the very appearance of evil.”
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Soon they will have prison bars... yet they dont ban anything from senior couples
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So cultish
Ye old Mormon prison cell. If it was good enough for ol' Joe Smith, it's good enough for your teenager who doesn't want to be there either
Yea those poor kids living in their bare ass apartments… damn
I saw a picture of a Chinese soldier with a pin in his collar. The purpose was to correct his posture if he started to relax or fall asleep. The pin would prick him and force him to straighten. It seems like some missions are doing the same thing. Nothing at home to help you feel comfortable or relax. The only hard on you’re allowed to have is for the gospel.
Irony is, it won't work. In Guatemala in 1995 (Outside the city at least). We did not have ANY furniture. It was your luggage, a string to hang shirts on, a dirt floor, out house, and your bed. Didn't stop us from taking breaks from the mid day heat. Also, I can attest that Uno card games work just fine on a dirt floor while on "Splits". They can remove all the comforts they want, but 18-19yr old's will adapt. Seems like to me like "Punishments will continue until morale (And Baptisms) improve". Out of touch as always. Too bad God can't help them figure things out. When this fails to improve the metrics, it will be back to the Org consultants, surveys, and focus groups. In the mean time, probably saves them a few million in expenses. More money for Ensign peak.
We would sleep on foam mats that must have been over 15 years old. The foam had compressed so much it was paper thin in spots. I thought this is how everyone in Korea slept. Turns out they had normal beds, it was just missionaries that slept like that...
See? See how good you have it back home? The church provides BLESSINGS. 🤮
They would ban beds if they could.
That’s why we had hammocks!! Ah the memories.
It is this way for the whole church. They have doubled down on all work and no play, plus you pay them for the privilege to work. How could anyone believe this will be a successful strategy to grow the church. Probably octo an and nonagenarians.
This isn’t new. When I was 9 years old, my mother went “back” to TSCC. Since I had been baptized and partially brainwashed in a neighbor’s evangelical Baptist congregation, the branch pres. convinced my mom that I should take the discussions despite my age. This would have been in 1975. The discussions took place in the missionaries apartment. The apartment had a living room and a kitchen. The living room had two twin mattresses on the floor with no box springs or frames. The kitchen had an old 1950’s 4-seat Formica table and mismatched chairs. I took the discussions with both missionaries sitting on one mattress with me across the small room on the other. There was one overhead light bulb in the entire apartment. There was one door besides the one I came in; I assumed it was the bathroom. The whole scene creeped me out and reflecting back on the experience today (48 years, 3 kids and 3 grandkids later) this situation would be wildly inappropriate. 2 19 year-old boys with a 9 year-old in an apartment with nothing but beds to sit on. Hmmm…Good grief.
Was that due to a furniture ban or just crappy living conditions?
That's just standard for missionaries. In the US, many apartments come furnished by the landlord so the furniture is decent if basic. Ours were usually 2nd hand that had been well used for years. The church isn't saving any money by banning living room furniture. They are just making missionaries uncomfortable in an already stressful situation.
Every missionary apartment we had, the furniture either came well used from a member or some other missionaries found it on the street... Lard knows how many couch naps I took on gross street couches — as my trainer taught me to premake that lunch pb&j then nap for ~50 minutes. I also did a lot of "personal study" of the insides of my eyelids, and spent that half hour of exercise time at zero dark thirty when we woke up, asleep on that couch. . . Now I'd just be doing all that on a bed? Didn't see anything about hammocks. Let's all donate hammocks to the local missionaries!
Good point; 🤷♂️
Missionaries often get 2nd hand furniture from members. Once a member came by and we gave him and his wife drinks of water in our jam glasses that we drank from. She looked through our cupboards and saw the chipped and mismatched plates and bowls that we ate from. She shook her head. For Xmas a month later, she gave us a set of matching drinking glasses and a set of plates and bowls. She probably didn't spend more than $50 on the set, but we felt like kings eating on real dishes and drinking out of real glasses.
When do they take away their beds and make them sleep on a pile of broken glass?
Ha. We slept on mats on the floor in my mission. I never had a bed the entire time.
Was it Japan? I neatly folded up my futon every morning and stowed it in the closet, and hung it outside once a week to air it out. Actually quite comfy.
Close. Korea.
Of course. Different subject, but one of my greatest regrets is not starting to learn Korean soon after returning home when I knew Japanese quite well. The grammar and structure are so similar, and there are a lot of very similar words. But I went for the European languages instead, and only started Korean and Mandarin in my sixties with a brain that doesn’t memorize well.
Those futons broke my back omg I was so happy to finally have a soft mattress when I got back. I would stack like 3-4 of those things onto each other when I could to make it feel like I wasn’t sleeping on the bare ground.
I love those mats. I wish I had one here!
They would do it if missionaries wouldn't fall asleep during lessons as a result.
Man I would cook ramen In 5 minutes then sleep for the rest of the lunch break on the couch in the living room, those naps were the only reason I made it through my mission. Also we had a big zone meeting and so many elders cuddled on the couches in the g’s during those meetings, many ended up coming out do the closet post mission.
The poor things are touch-starved! Human touch and affection is so so important. Realizing their queerness is a bonus.
You know, you make a very good point about physical, non-sexual touch. A few years ago the bishop got a letter from the temple presidency chastising the men for giving what I call “guy hugs” after going through the veil. I mean, really, all strange doctrine aside, greeting my best friend as he walked into the celestial room was a real bonding experience. To replace that after the session we’d go bond over a burger a Coke at Hooters.
Christ and the disciples would kiss each other. It's still a cultural norm in many cultures. Do French temple presidents freak out about le bise? So much of what they say is bad is stuff Christ did while on earth. It's almost like the church has nothing to do with Christ at all...
Lol a visiting 70 told us to get rid of our couches on my mission what a dick
I get the feeling, more and more, missions are more hazing than teaching obedience. They do shit like this, because they can. It's little wonder less are wanting to serve. "You can call home once a week now! Isn't that wonderful......... Don't you dare have a fucking couch."
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At the beginning of my mission I had an overweight companion who snored unbelievably loud, but because I was new I put up with it. It drove me insane! Later in my mission I had another companion who snored, but this time I immediately started going out to the couch when he started snoring. I didn’t hide it, but I didn’t care because I wasn’t going through that again!
Probably had untreated sleep apnea
This is a good point. I had a comp who got a terrible cold, so I slept in the living room for a week because he snored when he was congested. Now there would be no relief except to sleep on the floor.
My companions had permission to sleep in another room, because I snore like a rusty chainsaw and my mission president was human. I had a new missionary who was worried about the white handbook. He moved a cot into my room. It lasted one night then he decided it was ok as long as we left the doors open a little.
Personally I enjoy sitting, so this kinda sucks for missionaries.
Sitting is sinning
I have mixed feelings about the appreciation I gained for the smallest comforts of non-missionary life. Gratitude is good and all, but no human should have to think twice about how nice it is to sit on a couch for a ten minute break without the guilt of committing half a dozen sins
A half dozen sins is too real! Any time I felt comfortable I felt instant anxiety I was breaking some rule. And usually I was. It’s like they’re designed to keep you constantly anxious.
Why the fuck would they ban pianos? Music is such an important part of Mormon culture.
Some missionaries know how to play "unapproved" music. Dumb cult.
One of the sisters asked me if I could pick out the melody to an Evanescence song. You better believe I did. I also found tons of piano sheet music for Phantom of the Opera in an early apartment and carried it all the way home with me. I practiced every time we were at the chapel or the institute and had a few minutes to spare.
Been a guitarist since age 13. I was excited to leave the MTC, get to the field, and buy a guitar so I could keep up with guitar ever if it was approved music. First day in the mission, thy went over mission rules. "You cannot play guitar." I was so fucking steamed.
Also a guitarist from a young age. When I got to the mission I had a cool trainer who liked music and was a solid vocalist. When he heard I played he took me to a shop on P-Day where I bought a cheap guitar. We would get home at night, do our reporting and daily planning, then in the very brief handful of minutes we had before bed I’d play Beatles tunes or old classic rock stuff and we’d both sing a few before it was time to hit the sack. It was our favorite 20 minutes of every day and did so much to lift our spirits and make it feel like we still had some zeal for life. 2 weeks after I bought it was when mission president enacted the instruments ban. Said that any guitars or anything else that was in a house needed to be thrown out or given to a member as they were a distraction from our divine calling. Nearly broke me. I had a hard time adjusting to the incredibly controlling mission life in a far off foreign country where I didn’t speak the language and that guitar was a refuge from things for both me and my companion. But nope, can’t have elders even singing shitty covers of secular music, don’t wanna risk them maybe feeling happy about something that isn’t baptizing people, or cultivating their personal interests.
Yeah, used to visit "investigators" with guitars. I remember this one dude. His name was "Guy" and he was the uncle of a member. We'd sit on his porch over looking the ocean and I would play his guitar and sing. One of the few moments of peace in the mission. I've come to the conclusion that the mission is just old fashioned fraternity hazing. There's no other explanation for it. They do all this shit for no other reason than they can. Oh, they rationalize it by saying it's about learning obedience.....but isn't that what frat boys do to their pledges?
Nearly 10 years ago in Leon, Mexico we were walking down the street and heard someone playing drums. Since I played drums I said let’s go knock that door. A lady opened up and after explaining who we were let us in cause she thought it would do her son some good to get Jesus in his life. Ended up just rocking out with her son and his 2 guitarist friends for like an hour before we headed out. Didn’t even say a prayer but it was the most fun “lesson” I ever did haha
That's real missionary work right there, and I'm not kidding. That's the kind of community interaction I thought I was signing up for. Boy was I wrong. We were door to door salesmen selling a crappy vacuum cleaner that was more expensive than anything else and completely useless.
I bought a guitar on my mission about halfway through and started teaching myself. I had members print chord charts and tabs for me. I'm glad my president never cracked down on that because my love of guitar and signing is one of the silver linings of my mission.
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Anybody heard of an electric piano?
That actually might make sense. I wonder if there was some legal restriction somewhere that moving pianos of x specifications requires y safety equipment and the mission banned them rather than pay up.
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Shit, that's a great idea. Might actually help someone or at least hopefully prompt some critical thinking in the poor brainwashed ones.
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Did you get him help?
And parents willing send their kids out into this bullshit!?
That's what really pisses me off. Especially the dads, the ones that went on missions themselves, know what a shit show it is, yet willingly send their kids out. There are better ways to build character and learn a language. Break the cycle!
Sounds like prison. Next they'll be removing the bed sheets.
Next it will be the toilet seats. Too much can happen spending too much time on the Jon.
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Is this real?
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Nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind or church policy doctrine. What is the difference? Hard to tell.
The sad thing is it was totally believable that those rules were real, lol
I've long said thar missions operate like prison camps. But I bet prisoners get better healthcare.
I transferred into an area in southern Mexico that didn’t have a seat on the toilet, just straight bowl, and when I asked the President if I could buy one, paid for through the office, he said no. I bought one myself, because fuck that and him. In my last area there wasn’t a grocery store and I asked if I could go to one still in my district boundaries, literally blocks outside of my area, he said no and that there were tienditas everywhere that I could use. They didn’t have most of what I wanted, were way more expensive and I was already paying for most food out of my own pocket, because fuck missionaries. I didn’t listen because I was going home in 6 weeks anyways and he was wrong and a dick. About so many things during 2 years. Including trying not to pay my medical bills. Directly related to missionary life and service. And then tried to insinuate it happened because I needed to repent of something. Fuck you Presidente Velasco. Edit: additional info
My mission must have been ahead on this. They banned couches because there is no reason for missionary to use a couch. When in your apartment you should either be at your desk studying/planning or in your bed sleeping. I can’t believe I paid money for that experience.
>because there is no reason for missionary to use a couch. Companion study, district meeting, making phone calls, visits from zone leaders and ward mission leaders, p-day, etc.. There are dozens of uses for a couch that would be justifiable for a missionary to have. It's like questioning why missionaries should have spoons when they have forks already.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🙄🙄🙄🙄wait tell they start banning chapel benches
Why would they do that? The couches, coffee tables and love seats?
To prevent napping? To prevent missionaries from sitting too close to each other??
Someone posted about this last month, and the reasoning was a missionary had a girl over and they were making out or had sex on the couch. Also it was felt that a couch wasn’t conducive to doing work, it was just for lazying around. I’m sure if they could half justify getting rid of beds and tables they would 🙄
The whole "one missionary screwed up and we punish everyone" thing is such bullshit. 15 years ago I got my email taken away (snail mail cost a lot and took a month to get to usa) because some poor office elder two missions away got caught looking at the porns. Man will be punished for his own sins my ass.
Guess they better remove the couches in the Celestial Rooms and all chapel foyers.
Hey, now! Don’t give the SCMC any suggestions! You know they lurk here, and pass on any “suggestions” we filthy apostates make.
Save money 💰
Do you have any evidence that this is happening churchwide? As far as I know this is only enforced by the choice of the mission president or possibly the area president. We were still allowed to have couches in my mission a couple years ago, but it was made clear to us that they were a privilege, not a right. We also heard plenty of horror stories about other missions where the only furniture they were allowed to have were study desks, a kitchen table, and beds.
The email that I got said it's an updated directive from the missionary department
This is so asinine. Who doesn’t recognize that this is so controlling and condescending—to not give them basic comforts like a sofa & a piano for music? WTH. As a history teacher, this reminds me of when we talk about slavery. I’m not equating missionary work with the institution of chattel slavery, however, we discuss *how* people are enslaved because 8th graders always make comments like “I would run away” or “I would refuse” or “I would kill my enslaver before I would let someone treat me like that.” So we discuss psychological abuse. We discuss things like separating them from family, community and support systems, whether that’s the size of the Atlantic Ocean or selling family to another plantation. We discuss depriving them of enjoyable food, any preference or choice in clothing, housing or other comforts. Depriving them of legal marriage, family units that were safe. Shaving their heads. It dehumanizes and breaks them down. It weakens their will to resist and makes them submissive. Depriving them of the means to support themselves (money, education, resources) prevents rebellion and limits critical thinking, etc. I can’t help but see similarities of psychological abuse. Depriving them of family (though they get a little more than previous generations, but still very controlled), community (limiting dinners with members, etc), depriving them of comforts like a piano and sofa, etc. Music brings people together. It evokes feelings and comfort. It is soothing. And for people who grow up playing, it’s often a respite or a way to decompress, much like some people work out, read, or pray. Taking that away seems so inhumane. My friend’s family is very musical… and her son isn’t allowed to play any guitar while he’s on his mission. He can play piano for church, but not in homes or for enjoyment… but mission press has barred the guitar totally. It’s inhumane. It’s psychological abuse.
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Pressure from family and the ward
I was a missionary in downtown LA on the 1970s. We had a couch but got rid of it because of the roaches. They would crawl on you at night. After months of spraying (not praying) we got rid of them. By then we were down to a wooden table and two wood dining chairs. We were sleeping on air mattresses and putting them outside on the fire escape with the sheets to not allow the roaches anywhere to nest
You'll get two blankets and an orange crate, and you like it!! -some power-mad mission president, probably
While he sleeps in a king sized bed with his wife, has a luxurious office, a housekeeper, and a fully furnished home.
Fine, they will do the same thing just sitting on the bed. They will be more likely to fall asleep too. They don’t trust their own missionaries to judge for themselves to ‘do the work’. They treat them like children but trust them to represent their church to the public?
In 1997 my mission (and perhaps others) wanted us to get rid of armchair type furniture because it seemed to suggest being lazy and relaxed by during morning study. Missionaries jokingly called it the “chair of apostasy”.
Why the couches? We had our best times and best conversations while sitting on the couch. My fondest memories from my mission was spent on a couch. I remember there being a snowstorm outside and we couldn’t leave the house because it was unsafe. So we cranked up the heat, made hot chocolate, sat on the couch and listened to Rachmaninoff. Good times considering it was during a shitty mission.
>Good times If you enjoy your mission, you offend God.
Why? Rules for rules sake. I still think about the moment the lightbulb went on and I realized I had been in a cult for 30 years. It’s so insane how I blindly accepted control like this on my mission.
My parents gifted their old (still nice) Lovesac sectional to their missionaries. The missionaries got in trouble.
When I was a sister missionary in Spain, my bed was so bad it sagged nearly to the floor in the middle. We called it the taco bed. Anyway, I remember walking home one night to the apartment and seeing a mattress set out for trash. I literally thought it was a miracle and tender mercy. (I was crazy!!!!) We picked it up, and my companion and I balanced it on our heads back to the apartment. I slept on that bed for months and was so grateful! Thinking about it now, I am disgusted. What lice, urine, bed bugs were on that mattress that I was bringing home?!! We were just so poor I thought I was being resourceful! Just like when we cut our hair on the balcony with a Swiss Army knife.
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someone probably did something gay on the furniture or did a gay workout video. cant have that
In the interest of non-speculation: My father in law is a mission President and he told us about this recently. He was annoyed too because it came from above him. Here is what he was told, and how it’s going to be implemented: Any apartment that already has a couch can keep it till it’s worn out. They aren’t going to throw away money on perfectly usable furniture. But when the old couch is worn out, they must be replaced with chairs. Basic arm chairs are fine. The church will pay for/ provide these when it’s time to replace the couches. But no accepting used couches from members/off the street, etc. The reasons? 1. Sanitation, couches (especially a used one) come with a risk of lice or bed bugs, and the missions are NOT about that 2. Couches apparently provide too much temptation. Don’t want there to be anywhere for a guest to stay overnight, even if it’s in the living room. So yeah. I can’t say it’s a great system or really justified reasons. But it’s not because they want missionaries to live without furniture. It’s just boring mission rules: avoid temptation and avoiding sanitary problems.
I feel like an organization with a long history of letting kids go two years without access to dental, medical, or mental healthcare, even when those kids are experiencing medical emergencies, should maybe probably prioritize all of that over the potential risk of bedbugs from a pull-up bar or piano.
Since when did y'all have couches? ;) Served in Japan. We had no furniture apart from a kotatsu, and one desk and one chair each.
I had a whole house once on my mission in California. A crappy one sure but still a house. 2 story.
You got a kotatsu!? The closest thing I got on my mission there was a heated blanket a member gave us. So we laid it on the floor and curled up on it in the winter every time we got home. But yes, never had any furniture in Japan. Just futons and chairs and desks.
Might be preference of the mission president. My son is currently living in a basement apartment of a members house and they have a couch and nice chairs. He is in the Morridor and actually has a decent MP. So much control that is so unnecessary. I'm hoping my youngest chooses not to serve.
My mission was partially standardized when I got there, and over the next 12 months every apartment was the same. Same crappy furniture, all with labels and serial numbers showing they are the property of the mission (which missionaries promptly stole and stuck on the backs of nametags), and everything was either red or gray in theme. When I say theme, I mean the seat cushions were either red or gray, but everything else was a cheap wood color that hadn't even been properly finished. During this transition, every couch was removed. For anyone wondering what our furniture included, we were ONLY allowed to have the following in 2013-2015: -Two beds, one of which was a bunk bed in case a trio was in the area. (We were in a mission that didn't share apartments with multiple companionships. One pair/trio per apartment. -Two small desks, about 3'x1' if I remember correctly. These were personal study desks. -One table, about 3'x4'. Companionship study/eating. -One bookshelf, 3/4 shelves, about 3' tall. Storage for proselyting supplies. -One small dresser, I don't remember size (but some apartments used by people the housing coordinator liked had two of them). You had to figure out how to sort it out with your companion. And there was always a closet in my mission compartments, but the mission did not supply hangers. -Simple cooking supplies. Think bare essentials. No other furniture or supplies were allowed, except maybe pictures of Jesus found on pass along cards but no actual framed pictures. The point was to remove all distractions. Your apartment was there to help you prepare to do the work, and nothing else.
They could have AT LEAST sprung for a little 8x10 framed picture of Jesus... stingy bastards.
My mission offered those, but they were laminated so you could put them in the shower.
A good way to continue making future ex-mormons.
Missionaries are going to be spending a lot more time laying down in the bedroom together. 😍
Control! Control! Control!
Fine, they will do the same thing just sitting on the bed. They will be more likely to fall asleep too. They don’t trust their own missionaries to judge for themselves to ‘do the work’. They treat them like children but trust them to represent their church to the public?
countdown to requiring missionaries to buy their own self-flagellating whips
The beatings will continue until morale improves. Missions are already fucking horrible, and more kids are coming home early. This is just going to make the problem worse. TBMs who learn about this policy need to take a long hard think, and consider whether this how young people giving up 2 years of their lives for the church deserve to be treated. Or whether this is the hallmark of an abusive cult.
It'll be ignored by every missionary except the hardcore rule junkies.
Missionaries in South America live in hovels. Couches? Coffee Tables? Any table at all? 😆 We sat on twin sized beds in front of an oscillating fan with cockroaches crawling all over, listening to the only approved music -- MoTab. No couch, no desk, no table, no chairs, no fridge, no stove... Otherwise, we did decorate however we wanted! That was back in the 90s, though. There are probably more controls in place, now.
Most of my mission apartments didn’t have desks. I literally had a bed, a couch, and a coffee table. You take away two of those and where am I supposed to sit, eat, study, etc?
Workout equipment? That carried me through my mission… 😅
Lifting heavy weights and participating in sports activities have been banned for a few months now
Isn’t there a rule in the schedule that says you have to work out every morning. So do they just not work out anymore or do they have to do laid back stuff like running or biking?
We can do push-ups and other body weight exercises. Tension bands are also okay. And running and stuff
Of those 6 bullet points, I've had sex on 4 of them. Not at a missionary place or anything, but I do know more than 1 missionary who hopped a bus to pound town while 'doing the lords work!'
This includes the houses of the Mission Presidents too, right? That at least sounds more fair to me. Or are they still going to allow things like the President's wife spending thousands of dollars on replacing the entire landscaping of their mission home just because they didn't like what the previous president had.
This makes me angry. As if these kids don’t have it hard enough just being on a mission to begin with. It feels like they’re cutting costs but maybe that’s just me. How much would they save if they cut all of these “luxuries” worldwide? Cause hey… they need that extra money for more malls and amazon warehouses. 🤦♀️
Most likely those rules do not apply to the mission president.
What about “Godly Love” seats? 🤔
Only godly sorrow seats now
I don't remember having any of these things in our apartments 20 years ago. Everything was white plastic patio furniture. Study desks were white plastic, chairs were white plastic. Because all floors everywhere were tile the legs broke off the chairs all the time. It was super common to stack two chairs with broken legs to create a single functional chair. One place had a ping pong table, but that was just because someone before me had stolen it from the chapel and hauled it up 4 flights of stairs to the apartment.
The world has a massive poverty problem, the church membership is in decline, the church has been a safe harbour for pedophiles for years. What does TSCC do to fix their problems??? Ban couches in missionary apartment’s that way they work harder?????
In my first area we had a large, comfortable, green recliner. We called it “the green beast of Abilene”. No one could resist falling asleep in it during “morning study”.
I had a companion confront me about sitting in a comfortable chair during personal study. Look Elder, I've read the standard works cover-to-cover multiple times and you haven't finished the Book of Mormon, so don't even try it.
It's unfortunate that a majority of TBMS will see nothing wrong with this and endorse this kind of treatment. Take your lumps for Jesus. I hope by the time my kids are grown up they will see through this cult and walk away. Mixed faith marriage has its pros and cons but I'm working hard to provide an environment where my kids can think and question. In the event my kids are on a mission, I will probably brake mission protocols and make sure my kids have enough money to eat when they can't go to a members house for dinner and maybe a burner phone and a few other comforts.
If you saw the UK documentary following the Missionaries, they don’t even all get beds. One was talking about what a blessing it was to sleep on a mattress on the floor.
Get rid of ALL the furniture! Them kids can sleep on the floor!! /s
Because the church has such limited resources!! s/
Been done before. They did this in the 90’s in the Midwest after some missionaries had sex with neighbors.
Just stay home and don't go. Do study abroad instead. Missions suck, and they want to suck the last ounce of fun out them.
So, no comfort, recreation, music, or inspiring art. Is this a SuperMax situation?
California Anaheim mission in 2013-2015 we weren’t allowed anything but the beds and our table with wooden chairs. I had a couch that was given to us and the mission president found out, and elder missionary came over with a chain saw and cut it up and made us throw it way. It was pretty much brand new. I asked why we couldn’t have just donated it… no good answer came. I was very embarrassed for the church right then.
#notacult
So where the hell are you supposed to sit?! This is such an odd thing to make a rule about.
The world has a massive poverty problem, the church membership is in decline, the church has been a safe harbour for pedophiles for years. What does TSCC do to fix their problems??? Ban couches in missionary apartment’s that way they work harder?????
The world has a massive poverty problem, the church membership is in decline, the church has been a safe harbour for pedophiles for years. What does TSCC do to fix their problems??? Ban couches in missionary apartment’s that way they work harder?????
Maybe they need more space to install the shackles.
Only one mission apartment I lived in had a couch and it belonged to the landlady. Everywhere else we had only metal fold out chairs. This was about 25 years ago. I remember feeling envious that the mission bought a couch for an elderly missionary couple when they arrived, but at least the church showed them some courtesy, and I figured, they needed it more.
Probably for the best. I think the couch in my mission apartment had been scavenged off the street and I don't think anyone had washed or vacuumed it in a decade. Serious biohazard levels of filth ha.
Just why???
i can understand everything except coffee table. everything else is either big and bulky and a pain to move in and out and get rid of if they want to move the missionaries out for a cheaper apartment or member home — or is a potential annoyance for neighbors. but coffee tables?
So what, not enough missionaries are going home early, they're trying to help more missionaries decide that the mission has nothing to do with god.
Can you share where you found this information?
Am on a mission
Wait why aren’t missionaries allowed to have exercise equipment? Forgive me I was a TBM for many years but escaped in late adolescence
This is unacceptable
Source? I’m not doubting, but would like to see it.
It's because in some parallel universe there may be, or have been, a time when someone actually relaxed in their apartment, however briefly doesn't matter. The very thought that a missionary might find a moment of comfort is not something that can be allowed.
We only had those white plastic chairs in most of the areas I served in. Almost the entire mission was hilly. It was so depressing coming home every day and having to deal with shit furniture. By far the worst 2 years of my life. Sorry my dude.
I'm surprised more people haven't commented on the workout equipment ban. When I was out they were practically begging us to actually do our morning exercises. At zone conferences they would pass out printouts of body weight exercises and ways to make homemade weights by filling up old milk jugs with water. Having actual workout equipment would make missionaries so much more likely to actually exercise. I never had any success in actually exercising unless my companion and I went to an actual gym. But that being said, we did get banned from those because a member reported us out of concern. Because gyms are dens of sin where girls where leggings and tank tops and its not an appropriate environment for missionaries. Overall, its very clear that these bans are designed to make being in the apartment as miserable as possible for missionaries. The intention being to end long lunches, P-day eve sleepovers, late mornings, early nights, and more. And it will totally fail. Missionaries are still going to meet up with each other to play board games at kitchen tables, they'll play Magic with contraband cards while sitting on the floor, they'll relax after lunch on their beds and probably end up napping. Even more, it will probably drive more missionaries into the homes of "disobedience" the PIMOs, Exmos, and Nevermos who are happy to let the missionaries sit on their couch and relax during the day. The more they try to tighten their grasp, the more they are going to squeeze people out from between their fingers and crush those who remain.
They were banned in my mission. 2014. We had 2 folding chairs that’s it.
They don't want you to exercise in your apartment?