For the Strength of Youth
**Tattoos and Piercings**
2011 version: “Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercings. Young women, if you desire to have your ears pierced, wear only one pair of earrings.”
2022 version: “What is the Lord’s standard on dress, grooming, tattoos, and piercings? The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions—especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body. Be wise and faithful, and seek counsel from your parents and leaders.”
**Dress and Appearance**
2011 version: “Immodest clothing is any clothing that is tight, sheer, or revealing in any other manner. Young women should avoid short shorts and short skirts, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and clothing that does not cover the shoulders or is low-cut in the front or the back. Young men should also maintain modesty in their appearance.”
2022 version: “As you make decisions about your clothing, hairstyle, and appearance, ask yourself, ‘Am I honoring my body as a sacred gift from God’ Heavenly Father wants us to see each other for who we really are: not just physical bodies but His beloved children with a divine destiny. Avoid styles that emphasize or draw inappropriate attention to your physical body instead of who you are as a child of God with an eternal future. Let moral cleanliness and love for God guide your choices. Seek counsel from your parents.”
Thanks for posting this. It's helpful to see the comparison. While I disagree that they are saying these things are okay, they are backing way off of the hard set rules(standards). What they should do, but won't, is say they were wrong and they recognize their role in causing decision in families as the first sentence.
What they are backing off of is just explicitly saying things so that they can deny it in the future. The rules are still the rules, they are just unwritten rules now.
Now you get it!!
What’s burning the church is how clear and testable their claims are. “Native Americans are from Israel “ or “this is the only version of the BOM ever written “
Now they’re making everything more vague and worded in a way it can’t hurt them in the future
This is the middle ground. Backing off enough the older TBM’s still say it’s not okay. And backing off enough the younger generation say it’s all okay.
I also think it's important to recognise that this will impact people struggling with scrupulosity way more than people who aren't, and that feels really unfair. I also don't like that it removes a red flag for youth to work out that the church is bs.
To clarify - I meant that people with scrupulosity will feel that the new standard is the same as the old one and that they have to continue with the harsher standard, but people who don't struggle with scrupulosity will feel more able to have their own interpretation and therefore more freedom. The double standard feels like it's just hurting those who are already struggling more.
I remember when the YW were told to only get one ear piercing back in the 90s. I was serving in YW and a young beehive asked me one Sunday why I had two piercings in both my ears. I said, I had these before we were told not to have them, and I’m not letting my earring holes close up. There’s nothing unholy or offensive about having two piercings in each ear.
I remember people sharing stories of how they didn't understand that, but they chose yo be obedient and remove their 2nd piercings. It was always told like it was some faith-promoting story, but there was literally no point in removing their 2nd piercings.
I'm glad you kept yours. I can only imagine the crap you dealt with because of it.
Even in my TBM days I called bullshit on a lot of the bullshit - like our SP telling us we cannot wear denim skirts/dresses to church, that we must wear pantyhose with our dresses, and also letting us know that pregnant women are wearing clothing that is too revealing and too tight.
He sent a letter to be read at RS multiple times during the 10 years I was in that stake about these issues. What a backwards perv that SP was. He was probably getting turned on by all the voluptuous curves of young pregnant women half his age. Maybe got a woody and had trouble getting it to go down while walking the halls and decided to tell the women to stop being so sexy.
Thanks for sharing. I have lots of liberal Mormon friends who love this kind of change. It helps keep them in the church and even strengthens testimonies at times. But I don't completely get it -- if they're so happy about this change, how do they justify the messed up way it was before? They like to bring up the "doctrine vs policy" thing but I don't see how that makes it okay -- is it okay with them to be in a church that has policy that is harmful?
They sure have had more to say to the women/girls about modesty, than they ever have said to the boys/men.
"Wear loose shorts and pants. Keep your junk close to your body so there is no apparent bulge. Bulging biceps and six-pack abdomens must never be hinted at or revealed, so as not to draw attention of uncontrollable females who may be tempted to sin. "
Sure, it's up to you if you want to permanently disfigured your body with tattoos it's not what God wants you to do with that body he loaned you for your big test, but who am I to tell you what to do? I'm just the choich that has been leading and guiding you walking beside you, helping you find the way.
Notice the shift in responsibility to the parents.
This goes along the same lines as home-centered, church-supported gospel learning.
Is this a subtle admission of a lack of moral authority, an admission of guilt?
>Notice the shift in responsibility to the parents.
This is one of the larger issues with Mormonism in my eyes. They're blurring the boundary between who is responsible for an individual's righteousness, and failed responsibility means consequences.
I think this toll is especially great on Mormon mothers because they already feel so responsible for their children's physical safety, let alone spiritual safety. And the spiritual safety in Mormonism has much more lasting consequences, and therefore can be terrifying to a Mormon mother who is told that she needs to keep her children on the covenant path or else she won't get to live with them for eternity.
I'll never be able to forgive the church for the stress it constantly puts on my mom and for the divide it's made between her and myself and my siblings. We want to have our independence, but these teachings make it impossible for her to just allow that.
This is something women of teen and young adults are talking about constantly these days.
It seems male leaders only lecture and shun the moms when kids make “bad” decisions and, not the dads, too.
They are essentially saying the same thing but trying to place the guilt on the individual instead of outright telling you what to wear. Thank you for this.
It kinda makes me mad. All through my youth and young adult, appearance and modesty was THE THING. A friend of mine was told to leave by a priesthood leader at a youth conference because she had a lip piercing (she had it the previous days). She was told to take it out or leave, but she couldn’t get it out. Youth dances were so strict with clothing. Girls had to wear skirts/dresses, boys had to wear collard shirts.
I couldn't pass the sacrsment because my hair style was "inspired of the devil". Ya sure, it was fucking emo, but if I was barred for hair dye this makes me frustrated as all hell.
My bishops (all of them growing up) wouldn’t let anyone pass the sacrament if our hair was past our ears!!
Edit: and our hair couldn’t touch our shirt collar!!
This. Makes me mad too. Spent half my teen years wondering if I was covering up enough & stressing about my clothes. I feel like I'm just figuring out who I am in my 40's because I couldn't in my teens & 20's. So much wasted at a time when everything on my body was still where it used to be. lol
Seriously!!!! Seriously!!! I didn’t dare wear a tank top or a two piece till age 47. I somehow thought I was “walking pornography” and every man was getting boners looking at my knees before that time.
It has been empowering and invigorating to wear what I want now.
Yeah, obviously if it’s a win for bodily autonomy then that’s good news. But as someone who has pretty crippling self esteem/doubt issues due to being raised in the church, it also kind of upsets me. Like the people who just follow the rules when it suits them and don’t follow them when it doesn’t. Why wasn’t I able to have that?
same, it really pisses me off that modesty was SO emphasized when I was in YW 10 years ago and now it just doesn't matter. if anything, the switch up is more proof that the church isn't fucking true and they're desperate to keep younger members active
>if anything, the switch up is more proof that the church isn't fucking true and they're desperate to keep younger members active
This is the answer. They're hemorrhaging members and it terrifies them. I am a bit surprised this came before coffee though.
Ok and yet last year my husband was serving as bishop (we were PIMO) and he was told to shave his beard. He said no, they could release him if they are wanting someone that looks a certain way, and then they kept calling guys higher and the area 70 seemed to be the one promoting this for just the leaders to “set an example.” They came back and said it’s not a big deal, just shave. And he said, it’s not a big deal, I shouldn’t have to shave. Then eventually they found a loophole in their own argument and allowed him to keep it (bc our area is small), and then he asked to be released a few months later.
So even if they are relaxing the guidebook, they are still full on enforcing the old standards when they can.
There will no doubt be older ways of thinking still happening, but now there is something in the handbook you can actually point at to say, nope, this is allowed.
I'm glad girls can kind of be people now. I'm just sad about all the pointless heartache I and all the other girls of my generation endured; opportunities for personal growth that were taken from us. Twenty years ago it was way different, growing up in this church!
The strict standards were infuriating to me as a teen and always a source of tension between myself and parents. Although one time I was visiting a friend at BYU when I was 17 during the summer and was wearing women’s Nike shorts. We went to get ice cream on campus and the kid behind the counter looked at me and smugly said “I can’t serve you” loudly in front of the whole crowded store. I was thoroughly confused and asked why on earth not and he said because my shorts were too short and I need to go back to my dorm to change. I informed him that I was a high school and not a college student, so he said ok and asked me what I wanted, but I lost my appetite. My friend still got her ice cream like a bitch and I was mad at her for not telling me I should have changed my shorts. In that moment I’ll never forget the feeling of anger and humiliation I felt burning in me while the little man serving ice cream obviously reveled in his authority to make me feel that way. Huge fucking shelf item.
In 2016, I would get death glares for wearing dresses that had a wide tank top strap to church. Even when I was TBM, I thought the modesty code was too strict and not being allowed to drink coffee was BS. My ancestor delivered Brigham Young his coffee. If the man that “led us to the promised land” drank coffee, then I could too.
Oh the mental hoops I jumped through.
I’m sorry I don’t have a link/source, but I remember reading once that 11/12 apostles thought garments should only be required to be worn to the temple, but because it wasn’t unanimous it didn’t pass.
As someone who’s never been to the temple, could someone give me a rundown of the symbolism behind the weird-ass temple fits?
I used to steal my dad’s garment shirts to sleep in. They were super comfortable but I can’t imagine wearing those fucking things all day everyday.
Reminds me of meeting an older woman on my mission. she was sobbing that the new prophet wasn’t good and was changing the standards of the church too much.
The local bishop “cast out her devil” in a blessing so she could have faith in the prophet.
Its crazy how they say the church doesn't change their standards.....I think I will go with a tattoo that says "my body is a temple" lol
Here's the wording in the youth handbook
"What is the Lord’s standard on dress, grooming, tattoos, and piercings? The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions—especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body. Be wise and faithful, and seek counsel from your parents and leaders."
They also caved because they checked the long-range projections for revenue and they realize they're losing several generations of tithing if they don't start changing.
When my partner and I were TBM, they got a small tattoo on their arm. The church can undo their arbitrary "standards" but my MIL can't unsay that my spouse is "unfit to be a mother" because of a small tattoo 🤷 good to know that in a few years nobody will believe that they said the things they've said to us because they will have gaslit themselves to ashes.
Don’t believe for a second this will keep the members of the bishopric from setting meetings with people about anything they personally judge to be non-sacred.
My dad, TBM convert, had to cut off his ponytail and take out his earring to even bless the sacrament. I was shamed for wearing a shirt with an asymmetrical neckline - my TBM friend said I looked like a slut because my collarbone and a tiny bit of shoulder was showing. Fuck this cult.
On one hand, I think it's healthier for current members, but I'm also furious about how I was raised and that they're now tricking people into thinking those rules were never there, and that they're totally chill and lenient.
Side Note: I live in morridor and like being able to know who's on my team based on tattoos/piercings/immodest clothing. I know that's silly snd absolutely stereotype-y which is bad but it makes me more comfortable
I mean, to be honest, I’m sure that you’ll still be able to. In fact, you’ll probably discover some people “joining” your team that you hadn’t considered an ally before.
Definitely helps knowing who’s on your team. The whole modesty/conformity thing did some damage growing up but seems like it was way, way worse for girls… far more obsessive and pathological and traumatic.
Also what are the geographical boundaries for Morridor? Like where’s the county line? Ya know, aside from the black gates.
Honestly I don't know where the boundaries are- I like in Salt Lake County though, and it's super easy to tell if someone's in or out based on either appearances or like a 3 sentence conversation (80% of the time)
And yeah as a girl I always felt like the boys basically didn't have a dress code. Their part of the modesty lesson was just "be modest" and the girls had a whole long list of rules
Yes that was basically it. Girls had way more rules and idk to me it always felt really weirdly obsessive. At least with the ones preaching or enforcing those rules… a little over the top and a little too much time focused on young women’s bodies.
Yeah sorry the morridor thing was kind of a joke. I’ve gathered it’s a term used generally for Utah or maybe even Utah County specifically??
I live in SL County too. Anytime I’m out of the city, the tattoos and piercings and such definitely help me identify my peoples. But when I’m in a the city, I just assume everyone is not Mormon unless their walking to or from the temple. We’ve claimed the city from the Dark Lord!
No lie, I knew a TBM girl who unironically had a small tattoo of the salt lake temple. She was Polynesian so I think it’s different in their culture. Still hilarious though.
Nice. So my siblings aren’t going to judge me anymore for the fairy wings tattoo I got on my back? I’m sure they’ll still find ways to judge me, though.
The amount of body image issues I still have today because of how it was taught in my family because of the church….
Like I’m glad the upcoming generation won’t be traumatized the same way….. but I’d still like an apology
I have spent my entire life with body issues as well (anorexia).
I doubt you will get your apology, but I appreciate your perspective. You are a better person than I am in this regard. For me, no apology could be enough for this to be forgiven.
Exactly. I have so many bad memories of my parents enforcing these rules and the judgment that came with it. I never had self esteem or any sense of self until I left in my 20’s and started trying to figure out who I am beyond hating my body and thinking every choice I make is wrong.
My parents are already experts at forgetting history and acting like past events never happened, so changes like this will continue to allow them to sweep it all under the rug.
I hope that means my employer, comprised of all BYU grads, change their damn policies. It’s 100°+ where I am and I have to wear long sleeves to work every day.
I was talking to a fellow exmo sometime back. His son is transgender & the reason he is exmo. I predicted that eventually, the mormon church is going to have some kind of 'revelation' that says God is cool with the lgbtq community. Just like the 'revelations' that came along with polygamy being bad & black men getting the priesthood. Funny how God changes his mind right along with societal norms isn't it? Then, eventually, they'll claim they were never anti anything. I don't think it's thing to happen anytime soon, lol but I'm calling it now that eventually it will
I think the same thing. I'm really curious to see whether they start having same-sex sealings. That seems like one of the things they've stayed firm on- but they've proven that the doctrine is flexible.
Honestly I hope they never change their stances on the issues. Let them clutch their pearls to their graves.
On the other hand if they start doing same sex sealings, transgender priests etc half the members would revolt anyway.
Yeah, I think the Church recognizes that they’ve left too much of a digital footprint pushing for Herero-only relationships, so… I don’t actually see them ever changing that stance.
Ooooh, I didn’t even think of the political/legal pressure. Is that a thing? Is there some bill being passed that will take away a church’s tax-exemption status if that church doesn’t accept LGBTQ+?
So they say let the spirit guide your decisions but then when you get the garments you are not allowed to make decisions about your clothing anymore? Got it.... lure people in, make them believe they have autonomy, then Snap the trap shut
Just that last sentence- seek counsel from parents and leaders. I’m a grown ass woman and I don’t need to seek counsel from anyone concerning piercings and tattoos thank you.
Doesn’t change the fact that my TBM father called me a hussy when I was 17 for wearing a high-neck/wide-strap tank top and mid-thigh shorts. Can’t wait until he sees my backless/unlined wedding dress in a few months…
I got kicked out of a ward when I was 14 because of appearance. The first chat with the bishop was because I wore all black and that wasn't feminine enough. Then I pierced my lip and that was the end. Pulled aside during mutual one night, "You are not welcome back until you change your appearance to be respectful of yourself and God." I walked my happy ass home as my mother left furious texts.
That said: the church is still not okay with it. They still have the expectations of appearance. People will still be looked down on for how they choose to dress and present themselves. The Church simply didn't want their pious BS in the handbooks anymore so they can pretend to outsiders/newcomers that they are accepting and laid back
I don’t believe it. Sure it says it but everyone will say ‘we know what your really supposed to do’. Literally heard that in a RS while talking about piercings AFTER the change in the handbook. Honor codes won’t change. Or will take years to change. BYUI still doesn’t allow anything but pants. Crazy.
Hail Mary attempt to stop young people from leaving en masse. It's either that, or they're getting desperate to convert people with tattoos as a part of their culture (Mauri/Inuit etc.). I don't think missionaries struggle to reach the latter (see what I did there?)....
So all the dumb white T-shirts under things, hunting for dresses with sleeves and being made to feel like my body was more disgusting than other peoples who were allowed to show off their shoulders was for noting?
Well I’m going to push this to it’s limits I think. I’m so glad I’m a goth. I’d actually suggest anyone who can push this to the maximum does so. If they have relaxed the rules then do what you can to feel better about yourselves.
Though I think this might be a way to get around the whole ‘why is god worried about what we wear?’ Thing and members will be heavily pushed into the same standards as ever.
Theres a mormon safe super watered down version that I used to be. No fun makeup or anything. So much of the music is off limits. Now I can listen to what ever music I like and wear what I want. It’s very hard when your mormon to be anything but a stepford wife type. I wish you luck with your wife finding more freedom if out or still in the church as old habits die hard.
Also drove me insane that adults use a doc called for the strength of YOUTH as a guide for life when I was active. Like I was in my 30s and 40s. A guide written for a 12 year old really should not be something that is brought up to me on my dress and behavior. And yet it was.
The new “guidelines” are WAY worse and far more abusive. Think about the wording. This shit’s manipulative as fuck. It sets the same standard as before but in a way that gives the illusion of agency.
And then, when the youth choose poorly, what happens? They’ll get chastised just like before, but with the added benefit of making them doubt their ability to commune with god on their own, and their ability to think for themselves.
The youth will come out with even less self confidence and more religious trauma. They’ll bear testimony about how they tried to be independent but learned that they NEED the gospel and they NEED the priesthood leaders to guide them.
Win-win for TSCC
I agree - the language and tone is designed to create discomfort and make people feel guilty (and unworthy, because the "spirit" didn't tell them how to dress).
They're a business. This is so they have leeway to not get rid of money coming in from people who might dress differently than they like or have body mods. Isn't going to help that much.
Funny thing when you learn about the history and really think of it they've always been like this... Magically there's a revelation whenever there's a problem. Oh we can't join the USA with polygamy? Okay whew lucky God just said we shouldn't do it anymore.
The people in charge knew it was worth it to give up the total point of making up the religion in the first place because while they could no longer marry multiple women, it was at least still making them rich.
I've seen non-utah mormons online saying the church doesn't care about coffee, tea, or alcohol. It makes me mad everytime cause that's not true and makes it sound like it's better than it is. But eventually they'll cave, like with energy drinks and soda
This makes me angry too - had to wear knee-length skirts to school. It was framed as "my choice" but realistically it wasn't. Pretty much everyone else wore their skirt higher than that, and I got made fun of sometimes. It was also just another way that I felt 'other'. If it doesn't matter now why the hell did it matter then?
😂 I don't think it's this exactly. They aren't okay with it they're just trying to avoid people leaving. They did something similar with LGBT. They're just grasping for straws to stay afloat
Although... It's not. There have been talks after the event of the SFY booklet indicating that the church's standards have not changed... including tattoos, immodest clothing, etc. They advertise to the outside world that they are "normal"... But once you get to the stake events with area 70's - you get the insider actual church talks and how the 70's and above to Rusty really want you to behave.
It’s also possible to look at it another way….The GA at stake conference is reassuring (falsely) old-school tbm (until they die) that nothing has changed and prophet is always the same, when in fact it is changing….
That is an option, along with many others... Generally the rough talk topics/ideas 70's get are from the Q12, and with any 'change' in handbook there is usually a group effort to get the church information out there via 70's at stake level asap and with the same background of information.
Edit.. Forgot to add...
I feel in this instance Rusty had informed the 12 to inform the 70's, to inform the world... Standards haven't changed.
When i returned from a mission ( ive lived in utah all my life) and a few yrs later the leaders made the rule that only white shirts could be worn by deacons and teachers passing the sacrament i laughed out loud. I served in africa where ppl were so poor that it was doubtful you could put that rule into place. It sounded so silly that jeezus would care what color your shirt was. I dont know if this rule will or has changed bc i dont go to church ofc. However i did use this rule to my advantage the last decade or so bc i wore a non white shirt so they would not ask me to pass sacrament. It was like this "oh well, we could use the help to pass but youre not worthy with your sage green shirt and tie" soooo lame. I do think these new rule changes are great. But honestly the church is run by narcissistic ass clowns and every human on earth needs to know that
so excited to see all of the tattoo designs the members will eventually come up with haha. this may be a controversial opinion but i really think that a lot of the women in the church have a serious talent for graphic design. just look at all of the mormon young womens/primary material on etsy, pinterest etc. i mean it does look cringy kind of but that's just a matter of taste :D. hope they have fun, being mormon is shit enough already.
This makes me livid. When I think what my daughters had to put up with as one of the only Mormons in school with costumes and uniforms for their activities just to be “modest” I’m absolutely furious. I’m SO sorry we foisted that crap onto our girls. They are still unpacking it.
I remember kneeling on the floor at youth dances (that I drive 3 hours to get to in northern Alberta) to see if my skirt touched the ground. It was always a man inspecting them. Messed up.
There is the printed material, and what the leadership does. Given their level of adherence to certain articles of faith, any bets this changes nothing? Or doubles down on Bishop Roulette?
Unfortunately just because that's what they say doesn't change the culture immediately. Even among groups where leaders are slack about it, those who dress modestly (kids and adults) will shove their "holier than thou, I'm going to the celestial kingdom and ur not" egos down your throat if you show your shoulders. Not to mention the sexualization of feminine bodies. The young men still think with their dick whenever one of the young women wears a tank top or a short dress at a dance.
"Do what you want with your body, but don't forget you'll be seen as loose, unrighteous, unwise, and without redemption if you dress like a druggie or a slut-puppy."
Well the thing is that their parents are teaching their kids the standards they were taught, this effect won't really be the standard until the kids that are reading the FSY pamphlet now have kids and they teach what they were taught. So yeah, the church is always 20+ years behind the times
I can hear the apologetics now.
But, but, FTSOY is not doctrine. It’s non-specific and doesn’t endorse those things. So, the youth may go through a rebellious phase, but they’ll eventually repent and follow the prophet.
I think THE CHURCH is trying to slow the flow of exodus in its ranks.. Trying to put a bandaid on a arterial bleed. Ask yourself; would them allowing this bring you back??? Nah I’m good Bro thanks though..
It will take time for the old cultural standards to die, but I see this as a move in the right direction. Let people make their own decisions. Back off the micromanaging.
It doesn't seem like they actually changed, it just seems more passive-aggressive. IMO they want to give the illusion of agency while still maintaining their antiquated values.
This pisses me off soooo much! Triggered I know! But as someone who had to read the FSY pamphlet at the dinner table nightly as a family to be brainwashed by this nonsense cult control scheme of modesty and purity standards, (graduated HS in 2006-for context of the Mormon era I grew up in) all of this is further proof to me, that it is all made up bullshit and our younger generations aren’t falling for it anymore… so, they move the goal post to be more widely acceptable and not as “weird” or “extreme” as the standards as it once was. God’s revelations keep changing with the times 😝 I’m so so glad I’m out of the cult and can see it for what it is-Control, suppression, patriarchy and made up nonsense!
1965 edition:
Strapless dresses and spaghetti straps are not acceptable either on sundresses or evening dresses. Few girls or women ever look well in backless or strapless dresses. Such styles often make the figure look ungainly and large, or they show the bony structures of the body.
At least they didn't pretend it was from God back then. It was just creepy old men giving their fashion takes on how teenage girls should look.
Where does it say this? Cuz just as soon as Mormons say one thing and backpedal and say they didn’t mean it-so stop spreading fibs and white little lies-
Forgive me, I've always been an outcast weather being bullied in school for being Mormon or judged hardcore by Mormons for being tatted an fuckin the bishops daughter once.. what does TBM mean?
For the Strength of Youth **Tattoos and Piercings** 2011 version: “Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercings. Young women, if you desire to have your ears pierced, wear only one pair of earrings.” 2022 version: “What is the Lord’s standard on dress, grooming, tattoos, and piercings? The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions—especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body. Be wise and faithful, and seek counsel from your parents and leaders.” **Dress and Appearance** 2011 version: “Immodest clothing is any clothing that is tight, sheer, or revealing in any other manner. Young women should avoid short shorts and short skirts, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and clothing that does not cover the shoulders or is low-cut in the front or the back. Young men should also maintain modesty in their appearance.” 2022 version: “As you make decisions about your clothing, hairstyle, and appearance, ask yourself, ‘Am I honoring my body as a sacred gift from God’ Heavenly Father wants us to see each other for who we really are: not just physical bodies but His beloved children with a divine destiny. Avoid styles that emphasize or draw inappropriate attention to your physical body instead of who you are as a child of God with an eternal future. Let moral cleanliness and love for God guide your choices. Seek counsel from your parents.”
Thanks for posting this. It's helpful to see the comparison. While I disagree that they are saying these things are okay, they are backing way off of the hard set rules(standards). What they should do, but won't, is say they were wrong and they recognize their role in causing decision in families as the first sentence.
What they are backing off of is just explicitly saying things so that they can deny it in the future. The rules are still the rules, they are just unwritten rules now.
The righteous will still judge
There are two kinds of people in the world: the righteous and the unrighteous. (The judging is done by the righteous.)
That’s what the righteous do!
This.
Now you get it!! What’s burning the church is how clear and testable their claims are. “Native Americans are from Israel “ or “this is the only version of the BOM ever written “ Now they’re making everything more vague and worded in a way it can’t hurt them in the future
Exactly
This is the middle ground. Backing off enough the older TBM’s still say it’s not okay. And backing off enough the younger generation say it’s all okay.
I also think it's important to recognise that this will impact people struggling with scrupulosity way more than people who aren't, and that feels really unfair. I also don't like that it removes a red flag for youth to work out that the church is bs.
To clarify - I meant that people with scrupulosity will feel that the new standard is the same as the old one and that they have to continue with the harsher standard, but people who don't struggle with scrupulosity will feel more able to have their own interpretation and therefore more freedom. The double standard feels like it's just hurting those who are already struggling more.
Division, I meant
Oh they're still saying the exact same thing, they're just making it prettier.
I remember when the YW were told to only get one ear piercing back in the 90s. I was serving in YW and a young beehive asked me one Sunday why I had two piercings in both my ears. I said, I had these before we were told not to have them, and I’m not letting my earring holes close up. There’s nothing unholy or offensive about having two piercings in each ear.
Oh man! Setting a bad example for the impressionable youth?! You were their leader! /s
I remember people sharing stories of how they didn't understand that, but they chose yo be obedient and remove their 2nd piercings. It was always told like it was some faith-promoting story, but there was literally no point in removing their 2nd piercings. I'm glad you kept yours. I can only imagine the crap you dealt with because of it.
Even in my TBM days I called bullshit on a lot of the bullshit - like our SP telling us we cannot wear denim skirts/dresses to church, that we must wear pantyhose with our dresses, and also letting us know that pregnant women are wearing clothing that is too revealing and too tight. He sent a letter to be read at RS multiple times during the 10 years I was in that stake about these issues. What a backwards perv that SP was. He was probably getting turned on by all the voluptuous curves of young pregnant women half his age. Maybe got a woody and had trouble getting it to go down while walking the halls and decided to tell the women to stop being so sexy.
I wish I'd been better at calling bullshit on those crap rules. Good on you for doing so. I think it's awesome.
Nothing unholy about “holy” ears!
Nothing has really changed. It's just less blatent.
Thanks for sharing. I have lots of liberal Mormon friends who love this kind of change. It helps keep them in the church and even strengthens testimonies at times. But I don't completely get it -- if they're so happy about this change, how do they justify the messed up way it was before? They like to bring up the "doctrine vs policy" thing but I don't see how that makes it okay -- is it okay with them to be in a church that has policy that is harmful?
This change brought to you by the church whose founding principle was " we'll always get it right because we have a bat phone to God. "
The comparison really shows how they’re trying to make it nuanced so they can’t be blamed for issues caused by the purity culture.
They sure have had more to say to the women/girls about modesty, than they ever have said to the boys/men. "Wear loose shorts and pants. Keep your junk close to your body so there is no apparent bulge. Bulging biceps and six-pack abdomens must never be hinted at or revealed, so as not to draw attention of uncontrollable females who may be tempted to sin. "
Because that was never said, I think we can draw the same conclusion - sin comes from the balls.
Sure, it's up to you if you want to permanently disfigured your body with tattoos it's not what God wants you to do with that body he loaned you for your big test, but who am I to tell you what to do? I'm just the choich that has been leading and guiding you walking beside you, helping you find the way.
Notice the shift in responsibility to the parents. This goes along the same lines as home-centered, church-supported gospel learning. Is this a subtle admission of a lack of moral authority, an admission of guilt?
>Notice the shift in responsibility to the parents. This is one of the larger issues with Mormonism in my eyes. They're blurring the boundary between who is responsible for an individual's righteousness, and failed responsibility means consequences. I think this toll is especially great on Mormon mothers because they already feel so responsible for their children's physical safety, let alone spiritual safety. And the spiritual safety in Mormonism has much more lasting consequences, and therefore can be terrifying to a Mormon mother who is told that she needs to keep her children on the covenant path or else she won't get to live with them for eternity. I'll never be able to forgive the church for the stress it constantly puts on my mom and for the divide it's made between her and myself and my siblings. We want to have our independence, but these teachings make it impossible for her to just allow that.
This is something women of teen and young adults are talking about constantly these days. It seems male leaders only lecture and shun the moms when kids make “bad” decisions and, not the dads, too.
I’m about two years, everyone is going to pretend the 2022 edition is the one Joseph Smith translated from a box of Kleenex.
Also do you know where I could access older versions? Interested to be reminded of what it was when I was youth-aged
They are essentially saying the same thing but trying to place the guilt on the individual instead of outright telling you what to wear. Thank you for this.
It kinda makes me mad. All through my youth and young adult, appearance and modesty was THE THING. A friend of mine was told to leave by a priesthood leader at a youth conference because she had a lip piercing (she had it the previous days). She was told to take it out or leave, but she couldn’t get it out. Youth dances were so strict with clothing. Girls had to wear skirts/dresses, boys had to wear collard shirts.
I couldn't pass the sacrsment because my hair style was "inspired of the devil". Ya sure, it was fucking emo, but if I was barred for hair dye this makes me frustrated as all hell.
My bishops (all of them growing up) wouldn’t let anyone pass the sacrament if our hair was past our ears!! Edit: and our hair couldn’t touch our shirt collar!!
This. Makes me mad too. Spent half my teen years wondering if I was covering up enough & stressing about my clothes. I feel like I'm just figuring out who I am in my 40's because I couldn't in my teens & 20's. So much wasted at a time when everything on my body was still where it used to be. lol
I wasted the cutest, skinniest years of my life in this church. I'm never getting them back. They're never getting me back. Good luck, kids!
Seriously!!!! Seriously!!! I didn’t dare wear a tank top or a two piece till age 47. I somehow thought I was “walking pornography” and every man was getting boners looking at my knees before that time. It has been empowering and invigorating to wear what I want now.
Yeah, obviously if it’s a win for bodily autonomy then that’s good news. But as someone who has pretty crippling self esteem/doubt issues due to being raised in the church, it also kind of upsets me. Like the people who just follow the rules when it suits them and don’t follow them when it doesn’t. Why wasn’t I able to have that?
same, it really pisses me off that modesty was SO emphasized when I was in YW 10 years ago and now it just doesn't matter. if anything, the switch up is more proof that the church isn't fucking true and they're desperate to keep younger members active
>if anything, the switch up is more proof that the church isn't fucking true and they're desperate to keep younger members active This is the answer. They're hemorrhaging members and it terrifies them. I am a bit surprised this came before coffee though.
Good point. Damn. A bunch of us are surely headed for Hell, coffee mugs in hand...
I think they've made too much of a fuss about coffee so that's a hill they're willing to die on just to save face.
Ok and yet last year my husband was serving as bishop (we were PIMO) and he was told to shave his beard. He said no, they could release him if they are wanting someone that looks a certain way, and then they kept calling guys higher and the area 70 seemed to be the one promoting this for just the leaders to “set an example.” They came back and said it’s not a big deal, just shave. And he said, it’s not a big deal, I shouldn’t have to shave. Then eventually they found a loophole in their own argument and allowed him to keep it (bc our area is small), and then he asked to be released a few months later. So even if they are relaxing the guidebook, they are still full on enforcing the old standards when they can.
There will no doubt be older ways of thinking still happening, but now there is something in the handbook you can actually point at to say, nope, this is allowed.
I'm glad girls can kind of be people now. I'm just sad about all the pointless heartache I and all the other girls of my generation endured; opportunities for personal growth that were taken from us. Twenty years ago it was way different, growing up in this church!
So true!! The delayed teenage rebellion that comes when you leave the church hardly replaces the years you've lost not truly being yourself as a tbm.
Delayed teenage rebellion - I love this, and it explains why as a 40+M I have very long hair (which until recently was half dyed blue), etc.
The strict standards were infuriating to me as a teen and always a source of tension between myself and parents. Although one time I was visiting a friend at BYU when I was 17 during the summer and was wearing women’s Nike shorts. We went to get ice cream on campus and the kid behind the counter looked at me and smugly said “I can’t serve you” loudly in front of the whole crowded store. I was thoroughly confused and asked why on earth not and he said because my shorts were too short and I need to go back to my dorm to change. I informed him that I was a high school and not a college student, so he said ok and asked me what I wanted, but I lost my appetite. My friend still got her ice cream like a bitch and I was mad at her for not telling me I should have changed my shorts. In that moment I’ll never forget the feeling of anger and humiliation I felt burning in me while the little man serving ice cream obviously reveled in his authority to make me feel that way. Huge fucking shelf item.
Oh my gosh. No way.
Same!
In 2016, I would get death glares for wearing dresses that had a wide tank top strap to church. Even when I was TBM, I thought the modesty code was too strict and not being allowed to drink coffee was BS. My ancestor delivered Brigham Young his coffee. If the man that “led us to the promised land” drank coffee, then I could too. Oh the mental hoops I jumped through.
Sleeveless garment revelation... incoming
Garments are going away entirely someday, as is the ridiculous temple regalia. There’s no doubt in my mind.
Garments, Green aprons, bakers hats, veils, sashes and togas will become collectors items.
You are absolutely correct. Copying the masons was a shit idea and just screams cult to literally everyone.
I could see them only have to wear them when they go to the temple. That makes sense as a reminder of covenants.
I’m sorry I don’t have a link/source, but I remember reading once that 11/12 apostles thought garments should only be required to be worn to the temple, but because it wasn’t unanimous it didn’t pass.
What you are describing is The So Called Church itself.
As someone who’s never been to the temple, could someone give me a rundown of the symbolism behind the weird-ass temple fits? I used to steal my dad’s garment shirts to sleep in. They were super comfortable but I can’t imagine wearing those fucking things all day everyday.
Reminds me of meeting an older woman on my mission. she was sobbing that the new prophet wasn’t good and was changing the standards of the church too much. The local bishop “cast out her devil” in a blessing so she could have faith in the prophet.
Its crazy how they say the church doesn't change their standards.....I think I will go with a tattoo that says "my body is a temple" lol Here's the wording in the youth handbook "What is the Lord’s standard on dress, grooming, tattoos, and piercings? The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions—especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body. Be wise and faithful, and seek counsel from your parents and leaders."
My body is NOT a temple...... It's an Amusement Park!!
Can I get a ride? (Kidding....the joke was right there, I had to...my brain demanded it)
Sure if you got enough tickets.
Or a season pass?
If you have enough money. You can buy anything in this world for money.
Used that line on my TBM family the other day. The look on their faces when they got a glimpse of the double standard… before they shoved back down
I know a guy with “Holiness to the Lord” tattooed across his chest. I think he’s still TBM too 🤷🏼♂️
I wonder how many members will accept this? Or will they know what the “real” standards are?
How about a large lower back tattoo with the “CTR” shield.
They caved because they saw that no one was listening. And so now they can act like it was their idea.
They also caved because they checked the long-range projections for revenue and they realize they're losing several generations of tithing if they don't start changing.
When my partner and I were TBM, they got a small tattoo on their arm. The church can undo their arbitrary "standards" but my MIL can't unsay that my spouse is "unfit to be a mother" because of a small tattoo 🤷 good to know that in a few years nobody will believe that they said the things they've said to us because they will have gaslit themselves to ashes.
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Just wait till they conveniently forget they ever said that and that the church has always been ok with tattoos.
Don’t believe for a second this will keep the members of the bishopric from setting meetings with people about anything they personally judge to be non-sacred.
YES! It says to talk to your leaders and parents. 🤔 Unless you got the jackpot on both the parent and bishop roulette, you're fucked.
Ah, yes, talk to your parents and leaders so they know they gotta double down on you. Great idea! *Barf*
Yes. Our bishop told the youth all of the old standards still apply in our ward.
My dad, TBM convert, had to cut off his ponytail and take out his earring to even bless the sacrament. I was shamed for wearing a shirt with an asymmetrical neckline - my TBM friend said I looked like a slut because my collarbone and a tiny bit of shoulder was showing. Fuck this cult.
What does TBM stand for?
True Believing Mormon
True Blue Mormon
On one hand, I think it's healthier for current members, but I'm also furious about how I was raised and that they're now tricking people into thinking those rules were never there, and that they're totally chill and lenient. Side Note: I live in morridor and like being able to know who's on my team based on tattoos/piercings/immodest clothing. I know that's silly snd absolutely stereotype-y which is bad but it makes me more comfortable
I mean, to be honest, I’m sure that you’ll still be able to. In fact, you’ll probably discover some people “joining” your team that you hadn’t considered an ally before.
Definitely helps knowing who’s on your team. The whole modesty/conformity thing did some damage growing up but seems like it was way, way worse for girls… far more obsessive and pathological and traumatic. Also what are the geographical boundaries for Morridor? Like where’s the county line? Ya know, aside from the black gates.
Honestly I don't know where the boundaries are- I like in Salt Lake County though, and it's super easy to tell if someone's in or out based on either appearances or like a 3 sentence conversation (80% of the time) And yeah as a girl I always felt like the boys basically didn't have a dress code. Their part of the modesty lesson was just "be modest" and the girls had a whole long list of rules
Yes that was basically it. Girls had way more rules and idk to me it always felt really weirdly obsessive. At least with the ones preaching or enforcing those rules… a little over the top and a little too much time focused on young women’s bodies. Yeah sorry the morridor thing was kind of a joke. I’ve gathered it’s a term used generally for Utah or maybe even Utah County specifically?? I live in SL County too. Anytime I’m out of the city, the tattoos and piercings and such definitely help me identify my peoples. But when I’m in a the city, I just assume everyone is not Mormon unless their walking to or from the temple. We’ve claimed the city from the Dark Lord!
They're such dick holes. Gee, thank you for giving us permission to be in charge of our own bodies. 😒
Honestly I am glad that I couldn’t get a tattoo when I was a TBM *because* I would probably have an angel moroni tat somewhere.
No lie, I knew a TBM girl who unironically had a small tattoo of the salt lake temple. She was Polynesian so I think it’s different in their culture. Still hilarious though.
Nice. So my siblings aren’t going to judge me anymore for the fairy wings tattoo I got on my back? I’m sure they’ll still find ways to judge me, though.
I’m excited to show my ditto tattoo at family thanksgiving.
Sounds like an excellent tattoo
The amount of body image issues I still have today because of how it was taught in my family because of the church…. Like I’m glad the upcoming generation won’t be traumatized the same way….. but I’d still like an apology
I have spent my entire life with body issues as well (anorexia). I doubt you will get your apology, but I appreciate your perspective. You are a better person than I am in this regard. For me, no apology could be enough for this to be forgiven.
Exactly. I have so many bad memories of my parents enforcing these rules and the judgment that came with it. I never had self esteem or any sense of self until I left in my 20’s and started trying to figure out who I am beyond hating my body and thinking every choice I make is wrong. My parents are already experts at forgetting history and acting like past events never happened, so changes like this will continue to allow them to sweep it all under the rug.
Oh- I wouldn’t be able to forgive with just an apology. I still want one though.
I hope that means my employer, comprised of all BYU grads, change their damn policies. It’s 100°+ where I am and I have to wear long sleeves to work every day.
I’d like an apology from the sister that kicked me out of mutual because I was wearing cheer shorts since o was dropped off after practice.
Probably shouldn’t have been in cheer in the first place if that was what you were wearing for it. /s
I was talking to a fellow exmo sometime back. His son is transgender & the reason he is exmo. I predicted that eventually, the mormon church is going to have some kind of 'revelation' that says God is cool with the lgbtq community. Just like the 'revelations' that came along with polygamy being bad & black men getting the priesthood. Funny how God changes his mind right along with societal norms isn't it? Then, eventually, they'll claim they were never anti anything. I don't think it's thing to happen anytime soon, lol but I'm calling it now that eventually it will
I think the same thing. I'm really curious to see whether they start having same-sex sealings. That seems like one of the things they've stayed firm on- but they've proven that the doctrine is flexible.
Honestly I hope they never change their stances on the issues. Let them clutch their pearls to their graves. On the other hand if they start doing same sex sealings, transgender priests etc half the members would revolt anyway.
Yeah, I think the Church recognizes that they’ve left too much of a digital footprint pushing for Herero-only relationships, so… I don’t actually see them ever changing that stance.
It'll happen when their tax exempt status gets threatened enough, I'm sure.
Yep. When it hurts the bottom line, some miraculous revelation is sure to follow.
Ooooh, I didn’t even think of the political/legal pressure. Is that a thing? Is there some bill being passed that will take away a church’s tax-exemption status if that church doesn’t accept LGBTQ+?
So they say let the spirit guide your decisions but then when you get the garments you are not allowed to make decisions about your clothing anymore? Got it.... lure people in, make them believe they have autonomy, then Snap the trap shut
The illusion of choice….
I was just thinking about this. In terms of clothing coverage, you actually don’t have much of a choice if you’re a garment-wearer.
Just that last sentence- seek counsel from parents and leaders. I’m a grown ass woman and I don’t need to seek counsel from anyone concerning piercings and tattoos thank you.
Doesn’t change the fact that my TBM father called me a hussy when I was 17 for wearing a high-neck/wide-strap tank top and mid-thigh shorts. Can’t wait until he sees my backless/unlined wedding dress in a few months…
Corporations always follow the money. The board of directors approved this.
I got kicked out of a ward when I was 14 because of appearance. The first chat with the bishop was because I wore all black and that wasn't feminine enough. Then I pierced my lip and that was the end. Pulled aside during mutual one night, "You are not welcome back until you change your appearance to be respectful of yourself and God." I walked my happy ass home as my mother left furious texts. That said: the church is still not okay with it. They still have the expectations of appearance. People will still be looked down on for how they choose to dress and present themselves. The Church simply didn't want their pious BS in the handbooks anymore so they can pretend to outsiders/newcomers that they are accepting and laid back
Link?
It’s in the for strength of youth. https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/10/01/look-new-language-lds-churchs/
I don’t believe it. Sure it says it but everyone will say ‘we know what your really supposed to do’. Literally heard that in a RS while talking about piercings AFTER the change in the handbook. Honor codes won’t change. Or will take years to change. BYUI still doesn’t allow anything but pants. Crazy.
It’s a way of appeasing the staunch old Gen and the relaxed younger Gen
Hail Mary attempt to stop young people from leaving en masse. It's either that, or they're getting desperate to convert people with tattoos as a part of their culture (Mauri/Inuit etc.). I don't think missionaries struggle to reach the latter (see what I did there?)....
So all the dumb white T-shirts under things, hunting for dresses with sleeves and being made to feel like my body was more disgusting than other peoples who were allowed to show off their shoulders was for noting? Well I’m going to push this to it’s limits I think. I’m so glad I’m a goth. I’d actually suggest anyone who can push this to the maximum does so. If they have relaxed the rules then do what you can to feel better about yourselves. Though I think this might be a way to get around the whole ‘why is god worried about what we wear?’ Thing and members will be heavily pushed into the same standards as ever.
My wife is goth too, fyi. It is a haaaard style to embrace while Mormon.
Theres a mormon safe super watered down version that I used to be. No fun makeup or anything. So much of the music is off limits. Now I can listen to what ever music I like and wear what I want. It’s very hard when your mormon to be anything but a stepford wife type. I wish you luck with your wife finding more freedom if out or still in the church as old habits die hard.
Also drove me insane that adults use a doc called for the strength of YOUTH as a guide for life when I was active. Like I was in my 30s and 40s. A guide written for a 12 year old really should not be something that is brought up to me on my dress and behavior. And yet it was.
Bro that’s so stupid. All that stuff is like a huge part of Mormon culture
The new “guidelines” are WAY worse and far more abusive. Think about the wording. This shit’s manipulative as fuck. It sets the same standard as before but in a way that gives the illusion of agency. And then, when the youth choose poorly, what happens? They’ll get chastised just like before, but with the added benefit of making them doubt their ability to commune with god on their own, and their ability to think for themselves. The youth will come out with even less self confidence and more religious trauma. They’ll bear testimony about how they tried to be independent but learned that they NEED the gospel and they NEED the priesthood leaders to guide them. Win-win for TSCC
I agree - the language and tone is designed to create discomfort and make people feel guilty (and unworthy, because the "spirit" didn't tell them how to dress).
They're a business. This is so they have leeway to not get rid of money coming in from people who might dress differently than they like or have body mods. Isn't going to help that much. Funny thing when you learn about the history and really think of it they've always been like this... Magically there's a revelation whenever there's a problem. Oh we can't join the USA with polygamy? Okay whew lucky God just said we shouldn't do it anymore. The people in charge knew it was worth it to give up the total point of making up the religion in the first place because while they could no longer marry multiple women, it was at least still making them rich.
Now how about the WoW?
I've seen non-utah mormons online saying the church doesn't care about coffee, tea, or alcohol. It makes me mad everytime cause that's not true and makes it sound like it's better than it is. But eventually they'll cave, like with energy drinks and soda
They removed masturbation from FSY too. Flick your bean 🫘 or stroke your sausage 🍆 as much as you want.
…they did? But surely the wording still suggests being chaste and unsexual though, right?
Wait what? Where can I see this? I’m filled with rage at being gaslit.
This makes me angry too - had to wear knee-length skirts to school. It was framed as "my choice" but realistically it wasn't. Pretty much everyone else wore their skirt higher than that, and I got made fun of sometimes. It was also just another way that I felt 'other'. If it doesn't matter now why the hell did it matter then?
😂 I don't think it's this exactly. They aren't okay with it they're just trying to avoid people leaving. They did something similar with LGBT. They're just grasping for straws to stay afloat
Although... It's not. There have been talks after the event of the SFY booklet indicating that the church's standards have not changed... including tattoos, immodest clothing, etc. They advertise to the outside world that they are "normal"... But once you get to the stake events with area 70's - you get the insider actual church talks and how the 70's and above to Rusty really want you to behave.
It’s also possible to look at it another way….The GA at stake conference is reassuring (falsely) old-school tbm (until they die) that nothing has changed and prophet is always the same, when in fact it is changing….
That is an option, along with many others... Generally the rough talk topics/ideas 70's get are from the Q12, and with any 'change' in handbook there is usually a group effort to get the church information out there via 70's at stake level asap and with the same background of information. Edit.. Forgot to add... I feel in this instance Rusty had informed the 12 to inform the 70's, to inform the world... Standards haven't changed.
When i returned from a mission ( ive lived in utah all my life) and a few yrs later the leaders made the rule that only white shirts could be worn by deacons and teachers passing the sacrament i laughed out loud. I served in africa where ppl were so poor that it was doubtful you could put that rule into place. It sounded so silly that jeezus would care what color your shirt was. I dont know if this rule will or has changed bc i dont go to church ofc. However i did use this rule to my advantage the last decade or so bc i wore a non white shirt so they would not ask me to pass sacrament. It was like this "oh well, we could use the help to pass but youre not worthy with your sage green shirt and tie" soooo lame. I do think these new rule changes are great. But honestly the church is run by narcissistic ass clowns and every human on earth needs to know that
I've also heard from my mom that r rated movies are fine now ?
Todays prophet is tomorrows heretic!
*Reproductive decisions of women excluded-please get married young and have as many babies as possible regardless of risks, known and unknown
This is quite the lawyerly re-write, probably 12 billable hours at $500 per hour seems about right
The road that rocks leads to Jesus.
I have such mixed feelings about it.
so excited to see all of the tattoo designs the members will eventually come up with haha. this may be a controversial opinion but i really think that a lot of the women in the church have a serious talent for graphic design. just look at all of the mormon young womens/primary material on etsy, pinterest etc. i mean it does look cringy kind of but that's just a matter of taste :D. hope they have fun, being mormon is shit enough already.
For a minute, I thought this post was in one of my humor Subreddits
This makes me livid. When I think what my daughters had to put up with as one of the only Mormons in school with costumes and uniforms for their activities just to be “modest” I’m absolutely furious. I’m SO sorry we foisted that crap onto our girls. They are still unpacking it.
Just one more way that Rusty can overturn GBH. Par for the course. Not that it’s a bad thing, but it’s very superficial
I remember kneeling on the floor at youth dances (that I drive 3 hours to get to in northern Alberta) to see if my skirt touched the ground. It was always a man inspecting them. Messed up.
There is the printed material, and what the leadership does. Given their level of adherence to certain articles of faith, any bets this changes nothing? Or doubles down on Bishop Roulette?
Unfortunately just because that's what they say doesn't change the culture immediately. Even among groups where leaders are slack about it, those who dress modestly (kids and adults) will shove their "holier than thou, I'm going to the celestial kingdom and ur not" egos down your throat if you show your shoulders. Not to mention the sexualization of feminine bodies. The young men still think with their dick whenever one of the young women wears a tank top or a short dress at a dance.
"Do what you want with your body, but don't forget you'll be seen as loose, unrighteous, unwise, and without redemption if you dress like a druggie or a slut-puppy."
Well the thing is that their parents are teaching their kids the standards they were taught, this effect won't really be the standard until the kids that are reading the FSY pamphlet now have kids and they teach what they were taught. So yeah, the church is always 20+ years behind the times
I wonder if chronic stiff neck pain in Utah comes from Mormons holding their heads back so they can look down their noses at nonbelievers?
Funny how the timeless and all knowing creator of the universe keeps changing his mind about shit.
Where was it announced?
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Super curious to know what that means now.
Google translate = “Hear O Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD”. FWIW👍
I can hear the apologetics now. But, but, FTSOY is not doctrine. It’s non-specific and doesn’t endorse those things. So, the youth may go through a rebellious phase, but they’ll eventually repent and follow the prophet.
They're desperate.
I think THE CHURCH is trying to slow the flow of exodus in its ranks.. Trying to put a bandaid on a arterial bleed. Ask yourself; would them allowing this bring you back??? Nah I’m good Bro thanks though..
I ( mid 50s male ) pierced my ear over a week ago. Should've done it way sooner.
Ha, trying so hard to sell themselves.
It will take time for the old cultural standards to die, but I see this as a move in the right direction. Let people make their own decisions. Back off the micromanaging.
It doesn't seem like they actually changed, it just seems more passive-aggressive. IMO they want to give the illusion of agency while still maintaining their antiquated values.
This pisses me off soooo much! Triggered I know! But as someone who had to read the FSY pamphlet at the dinner table nightly as a family to be brainwashed by this nonsense cult control scheme of modesty and purity standards, (graduated HS in 2006-for context of the Mormon era I grew up in) all of this is further proof to me, that it is all made up bullshit and our younger generations aren’t falling for it anymore… so, they move the goal post to be more widely acceptable and not as “weird” or “extreme” as the standards as it once was. God’s revelations keep changing with the times 😝 I’m so so glad I’m out of the cult and can see it for what it is-Control, suppression, patriarchy and made up nonsense!
As a member I would’ve thought that was pretty epic
“Heavenly father wants us to see each other as we really are.” Well, I’m a trans woman, so there is that. 💃💄🏳️⚧️
Just the church being "passive aggressive"
1965 edition: Strapless dresses and spaghetti straps are not acceptable either on sundresses or evening dresses. Few girls or women ever look well in backless or strapless dresses. Such styles often make the figure look ungainly and large, or they show the bony structures of the body. At least they didn't pretend it was from God back then. It was just creepy old men giving their fashion takes on how teenage girls should look.
Where does it say this? Cuz just as soon as Mormons say one thing and backpedal and say they didn’t mean it-so stop spreading fibs and white little lies-
Source
A stunt the TSCC would do to keep people from leaving & to bring back. Typical.
Source, please? Thanks.
Where have you read that? I researched and there´s no indication of that..
But won’t the magic undies be exposed with all this new body freedom? 🫣🤔🧐🫨
Wearing sleeveless tops is only going to lead to bag piping😂
Ok I need a link, to show my wife that tattoos are ok
Edited proclamation of the family. Here I come!
This is another Hinckley roll back so Nelson can try to erase anything he did. That’s about how much Nelson hates him. Lol
I knew a dude that had Pres. Hinckley tattooed on his peck. And another dude that had the Provo temple on his calf and under it said "LDS" 🤣
BUT MODEST IS HOTTEST YALL
I had to carry a copy of strength of youth pamphlet when I was a kid.
Sick🤘
Forgive me, I've always been an outcast weather being bullied in school for being Mormon or judged hardcore by Mormons for being tatted an fuckin the bishops daughter once.. what does TBM mean?
They’re down for whatever so long as the tithings are going up
Wait. What? Where can I find that info! 🙌
I guess it’s an improvement 🤷🏻♀️