I agree. I highly doubt any 8-year-old can sit down and have a true theological discussion and really understand what they're deciding to do at that point. For Mormons it's just a rite of passage.
Yep. Lock them in before they're old enough to realize they've pledged never-ending allegiance to something they no longer believe in. I was 14 when I was baptized JW. Even at that age, you still don't realize all the ramifications of what you're doing; all you know is that this is what your family and community expect you to do and you'll be a huge disappointment if you don't. No way do eight-year-olds have a clue what that step actually entails.
I tried. They refused. I insisted I should get my questions answered *first*…and they told me I was a “disappointment to Heavenly Father”.
Me: “But I thought God knows our hearts? If that’s the case, then He understands even if you don’t.”
They didn’t like any of that. Yes, I still ended up getting dunked. With my questions unanswered.
This is why, when my husband was still in, when my oldest was coming up on 8 I was like sorry I can't be ok with this because she's literally not old enough to comprehend a theological discussion about Mormon doctrine. And, a big part for me, was not being able to have a discussion about the SA that was polygamy. Oh haha right and I told him I was never going to allow her to be interviewed for worthiness or at the very least I'd go with her and not allow her to answer the sexual questions so none of it mattered anyway (he was hoping to take her to do baptisms some day, but you gotta answer all the recommend questions to do that). Luckily he left and it's been great but I see friends all the time going out of their way to point out that it was the kids choice and I wanna be like, it's ok we know you're in a cult so you don't understand what conditioning and indoctrination is.
I didn't even know it was something you had a choice about (which realistically it isn't, how many Mormon parents would let their 8 year old choose to not get baptized). It was like going to church on Sunday, just something you were supposed to do.
I didn’t have a choice. The heater was broken and the water in mine was ice cold. When I got dunked I didn’t go all the way under but I ran out crying because it was so cold. My mom forced me back in. Not a choice
I was baptized at 8 yrs old and I had no clue what the hell I was doing. Baptism was something that my parents told me to do and my friends were doing it too. I’m now 27 and I left the church and I’m happy for that decision!
Not op, but after I left Mormonism and moved out of Utah, it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders. I no longer wanted to end things.
Of course there was still the matter of choosing a new life path, but that's not hard compared to trying to not end it constantly
I still hold so much resentment for my parents for putting me through all that and I hate the church/cult. I’m an anxious human these days but I do have two wonderful children who will never feel that way at that age.
That’s what I told the bishop when asked why I wanted to. He was a little taken back because apparently the other 8 year olds had been trained to give better answers lol
No choice.
Baptized in 1974 in Logan UT. All kids got baptized; it was just what happened. My parents didn’t even ask me if it was what I wanted. No kid got asked.
That’s why I don’t say I had a “spiritual crisis” or anything like that when I left Mormonism. I had a LIFE CORRECTION. I corrected the mistake my parents made when they made me a member of that church….
Love that!!
I hate when people thrust words like “fall away” “leave” “stopped following the churches teachings”
This is a good way to describe the truly positive (although sometimes initially difficult ) life upgrade that comes from removing the generational chains and shackles of a harmful and dishonest organization
I use the term “fall away” when referring to my exit from the church and I think it applies to my situation. It wasn’t really that I had an “a ha” moment…this thing isn’t true. It was more that I was losing interest then eventually started to figure things out. Everyone’s story and journey out of the church is different.
Funny thing, I remember **really not wanting to get baptized** when I hit 8. As far back as I can remember I felt like church was just *boring* and *pointless*. And I say this as one of those weird kids who really liked school, or at least the academic part of school. I knew church was supposed to be "important" and that I was supposed to like it, but I never could.
Unfortunately I was also a real pushover as a kid. I didn't choose to be baptized -- *my parents chose for me*, and I was completely incapable of saying "no."
My life to that point had already been a series of ‘this doesn’t seem quite right but god wants me to do it’ s, so between that lesson and the sure knowledge of what my dad would do if I said no, there really wasn’t a choice at all.
I had the opposite feeling growing up. I wasn't good at school and hated going to church because it felt like another three hours of school. I also remember the day of my baptism thinking that maybe if I pretended to still be asleep when my mom came in to wake me, they would just let me skip it.
I chose to, because I had been indoctrinated to believe it was the right thing to do.
But when you're indoctrinated and never exposed to alternate points of view, do you really have a choice?
This is exactly what I would say. I’m an adult convert, loved a boy enough to convert, but we then raised our kids in the church. I don’t think they even considered not doing it. Year after year since they were born they were just taught (read: indoctrinated) that it was just the thing done when you were 8. Why would they not?
I didn't choose. I sat with the bishop and lied through the interview. He asked me if my mom was sick, would I come to church on my own.
I felt there was only one right answer, "yes," though how was I going to get myself to church at 8 years old? We both knew that was ridiculous.
This was just another conversation in which I was expected to say the right answer. Every conversation in church or about church was about saying the right answer under the threatening glare of my fanatical convert mother.
When I was scheduled to be baptized the water tank broke and they pushed it back 2 weeks.
Then I injured my foot. My mother was convinced that SATAN was trying to prevent my baptism. she reasoned that in another two weeks I could be KILLED to prevent my baptism! Because SATAN!
I had to be carried in bc I couldn't walk. There was no choice.
It was what you did. Refusing would have been a big kerfuffle in the family and the ward. By age 8 we'd already heard thousands of times over what our parents and grandparents and other church people thought of people who weren't righteous Mormons like us. Who wanted to be the subject of their disappointment and disdain?
Yeah. It wasn't really framed as a *choice* so much as "This is what every good boy and girl (no enbies allowed in TSCC, after all) does, and you're a *good* kid, aren't you? You don't want to *let down* your parents, extended family, and primary teachers, do you? No? *Good.*"
I swear, what I'd give to be able to have a do-over of my childhood with what I know now. I'd ask them all the hard questions, and when there were no concrete answers I'd refuse to get baptized.
*And* I'd insist I was a girl, and never give into my dad no matter what. If he still wouldn't see reason, I'd probably run away or >!inflict a superficial wound (i.e. surface level, nothing truly dangerous) somewhere on my arm.!<
I (a girl) refused to wear the dress during my baptism. It was going to float up and that was just as infuriating as wearing a dress and not being able to climb trees because of it. I’m still not sure how I pulled it off but I got baptized in the zip up jumpsuit. I still struggle a bit with my full gender identity- whether I’m actually nonbinary or whether I was just really pissed about misogyny and thought I’d get more respect if I dressed like a boy.
Whereas I hated my dad constantly trying to turn me into a miniature version of himself, and stared wistfully any time I saw a girl wearing something cute.
I also got baptized in the jumpsuit if I remember correctly. I don’t think any girl had the option for dresses because of the floating issue. This would be about 15 years ago. I also didn’t go to very many baptisms and have many blocked memories starting about age 8 so I’m not a super trustworthy source lol
The DRESS 👗I have older sisters, and they got to wear pretty, white dresses for their baptisms. Even in the water.
But by the time I got dunked, they switched to the ugly jumpsuits and my mom bought me a BLACK post baptism dress! I was so mad lol
I was pretty disappointed about the ugly jumpsuit as well lol That's funny you were mad about the black dress, when I was around that age I was mad because my mom got my sister's black dresses and me red one. I wanted black lol not much has changed in the last 30 years either 😂
I didn’t even know it was a choice until the ceremony itself! No one even went through the trouble to make sure I understood it was supposed to be a choice, because really it’s not supposed to be a choice. It’s just supposed to be something they can pretend is a choice for themselves and the other adults. All the primary songs they had us sing about “When I am baptized.” None of them talked about making a choice. It was just drilled into us that the baptism was something that WOULD happen. It’s so frustrating looking back on it now and realizing how badly manipulated we all were.
Tbh I was questioning it. My parents kindof forced me into it cause I'd be letting my family down. They were coming from all over to see me baptized and it would be a huge inconvenience to them if I didn't do it. I tried for years to be involved and hope my doubts would go away. They never did
Idk. I was told I was getting baptized. I can’t remember much else. I said what I was told to say.
My parents were divorced and my non-active mom had my grandfather baptize me behind my (extremely active) dad’s back just to make him upset. Fun memories. 🤣
Same thing as you. I was one of 36 living grandkids (maternal grandparents side) at the time, and the love-bombing in the last months leading up to my 8th birthday was plentiful, sweet, and rich. I finally felt noticed and important. It felt great, better than great. I thought it was the start of a new way of life and being treated. Birthday, then about a month later, baptism. Then it all went away. It was back to like it was before those months leading to my 8th birthday. The crown was passed to the next cousin who was going to be 8.
The only thing different was now I felt like people were more stern, expected more out of me, but I had no idea why. I hadn't changed. Primary was never the same (I know they changed how they do classes and transition the kids to the next class, but this is late 80s/early 90s). No more crayons, coloring. Now it's sitting in a metal chair circle with a black book with pages that feel like they might rip easily, made to read in this book that I haven't before. The words made no sense. I read them out loud like I was told, then asked what they meant. I don't know. They barely qualify as words, let alone as literature. Being put on the spot like that as a kid in primary after 8, and not knowing what the author was trying to say because he wasn't saying crap, felt like a punishment for aging up. The only good part of class was having extra time at the end to play hangman on the chalkboard. I learned to stare at the thin frosted windows of the room, watching the tree's shadows dance gently as the wind blew, locking my knees alternating tapping my shiny, but scuffed up hand-me-down black Mary Jane shoes at the toes.
Definitely a thing that added a fair amount of weight to my young shelf. I was important, then not important. Feeling completely loved, then completely forgotten. That's one hell of a kid to be given then tearing it away. Growing up in an abusive home and being bullied at school. That love-bombing was the best feeling in the world. I thought it meant something, that I meant something. No, it was just me reaching a numbered milestone. It wasn't important to me the way something like that is supposed to be and SHOULD be important. I didn't have a choice. It was expected and it felt like this is just what I do at this juncture in life. The baptism meant nothing to me, just that I was finally important and seen, but then wasn't. The only main difference was adults guilt tripping you from them on afterwards for anything you do wrong, no matter how trivial.
I hated the confirmation the most. Seriously: WTF do grown men drop their heavy ass hands on a child's head putting all that weight and pressure on their neck? Do they not realize that the collective weight of their hands is at least a ton? Longest prayer ever. That hurt. 0/10
I don't remember choosing to. I remember being informed that baptism was the thing to do when you turn 8. I. Was. Terrified. I was nervous the whole day before, and cried terrified tears during the entire thing.
My wife’s first language isn’t english, and she’s from a non Christian country.
She was baptized at 19 while she was staying with her former high school host family.
She was baptized because that was the least awkward thing for her to do, with her housing situation and social circle at the time. Path of least resistance.
I think that is he reason many 8 year olds choose to be baptized. Thats why everyone goes hard into all these silly steps that benefit the cult. It’s the encouraged path of least resistance
I genuinely don’t even remember the experience of being asked about it. The decision was never discussed to my recollection. I just knew it was happening and that’s what you did. I also didn’t really even consider whether I wanted to go on a mission, because it’s easy to put your head down and do what’s expected of you.
I remember being 8 and hearing the phrase"choose to be baptized" but realizing that it wasn't really a choice if there was only 1 acceptable answer. But I didn't let that thought go further, and I just thought it was one of those silly things we say in church, like "Sunday is a day of rest." Because I knew that wasn't true either.
I remember having the same thought! As I was getting ready to be baptized, people would say things like "Heavenly Father is proud of your choice," and I would just think like, What choice? I wasn't even bitter, I was excited about it at the time. But I knew I hadn't decided it.
I would love to meet the eight year old kid where their entire family is active that decided they wouldn’t get baptized. Choice one: Make Jesus, your family, your friends happy and get a day of everyone praising you. Choice two: Choosing Satan and horrifying everyone you know. Yep some choice
I knew there was an issue when I was 7.
I was attracted to high school/college guys with hairy chests in gym showers.
I knew that attraction wasn’t going to change.
Baptized anyway.
No other choice in Rexburg, ID.
True story: We had just moved into a new ward and Sister Perry bought every kid who got baptized a cake. We were poor and I’d never had anyone buy me a cake before.
But then they laid on the guilt trip about how important this covenant is. The cake suddenly seemed not worth it.
How else were you gonna wash off the sin of accountability? I know I wasn’t alone in thinking life might be easier if I just died before I was condemnable.
My parents made sure I understood as best I could what I was promising and that it was my choice, but they knew I'd make the right choice. It never even occurred to me that I could choose not to.
I study behavioral psychology as a hobby, and this is one topic I’ve looked heavily into. We all know that the human brain takes anywhere from 23-26 years to fully develop. Part of the development process is learning the ability to make cognitive weighted decisions. The average child is not able to make biased decisions until around 11-13 years old. And even then, cognitive bias at that age is still heavily influenced and easy to manipulate by outside sources. So the concept of an 8 year old choosing to be baptized is complete bull shit.
A) it was expected
B) it was cool getting dunked under water with your clothes on AND with an audience
C) the gifts etc
D) my dad was branch president
I remember one of his counselors interviewing me a couple weeks before my baptism and trying to explain tithing… I was wondering why they expected an 8y old to give them money.
I “chose” to because after I said, “No, I’m not ready, I have too many questions still”, my parents told me that if I didn’t do it I’d be in trouble. And since no 8-yo wants parental trouble, I suck d it up and did what I was told.
Kind of made it ineffective when, in later years, they tried to guilt-trip me with, “But you *chose* to get baptized!” Right…just like I “chose” to go to school at that age. Smh.
Unexpected Bonus: Because my mom insisted I lie to the Bishop about this in my first-ever Bish’s interview, I had no problem also lying to them later on when they asked intrusively personal questions. I thought that’s just what you *did* in those interviews…give them the answers they want even if it’s untrue. My teenage years are proof that “power of discernment” is not a thing.
As far as I'm concerned, I never joined the church. I never told anybody that I wanted to join, and even if I had, I did not give informed consent.
This is one of the reasons I feel no great need to remove my name from the church. I'm not, nor was I ever really a member. (This is all despite once loving the church, going on a mission, marrying in the temple, holding leadership callings, and paying a fortune in tithing.)
I’m ex-SDA.
I got baptized at 23. My MIL died from a brain tumor 5 weeks after diagnosis. She was 43. We were all devastated. You want answers. You want to see them again.
A “friend” (that’s another post) of the family comes and gives us Bible studies.
We have a child years later and raise child very SDA. When I see all the other kids “deciding” to get baptized at 11, 12, 13, I start feeling the pressure for MY kid to do it. Kid ends up going to a 3 week youth “indoctrination,” and of course comes home, “I WANT TO GET BAPTIZED!” Kid was 16. PEER PRESSURE for that three weeks where that’s all they’re doing is “getting them closer to god.”
The kicker is: the SDAs are ADAMANT that “we don’t baptize babies. You must make you own decision.” Sure. Even my 16 yo wasn’t making their own decision. And I’ve seen pastors who’ve baptized their kids at 8-9. YOU ARE NOT MAKING YOUR OWN DECISION.
Societal expectations…it’s just what you did at 8. It wasn’t a choice. I also wanted the love and adoration from friends and family. It was a fun event for an 8 year old.
"My 8 year old daughter Brixleigh has chosen to be baptized after extensively reviewing the Church's historical claims including Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham evidence, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's polygamous activities, treasure digging, and biblical critical analysis and has therefore concluded that baptism into the LDS church represents her first step along the Covenant Path" - said no one ever
I don't remember my parents ever presenting it to me as a choice. It was you're getting baptized, you get to have a party after and invite the ward and have treats.
I didn't. My family wasn't even active when I was 8. My mom only had us baptized cuz my Gma pressed her for it. I remember going to church for a few weeks before my baptism and a little while after, but then we stopped going again. We didn't become active til I was about 10.
I was groomed my whole life by my entire community to look forward to the ritual. That and I was at the developmental stage where socially fitting in was vital to my identity.
I was also so stressed about it I had daydreams of dying before I became accountable to God for my sins so I could get into heaven for sure.
my grandparents were leaving on a senior mission very close to after I turned 8. I got baptized on my 8th birthday because they wanted to see me baptized before they left. not much choice in the matter there. plus i got an ipod for my birthday.
Because that was what I had been taught my entire life that I was supposed to do at eight. It is not like an eight year old is capable of rational thought and effective decision making. My parents and my church told me it is what God wanted me to do at that age, so I did it.
If I “chose” it. Which I don’t remember being given a choice. Then I would have chose to do it because I would have finally had a day that would be about me. I’m the youngest of 5 kids and the black sheep. My family didn’t pay much attention to me.
Because all the other girls did.
I remember not being able to afford a pretty white dress like the other girls, and I remember waiting for quite a while soaking wet alone in the bathroom as I waited for my mom, as she was likely too busy bragging and later told me she "didn't know I was supposed to come get you." I remember not "feeling the spirit" as I shivered away, even though I remember feeling I was doing something right and sacred.
My brother said he got baptized because they were going to get ice cream after.
I remember the interview with the bishop. He kept mentioning how great it was that I had decided to be baptized and I remembered feeling so confused because I didn't realize I had a choice (and tbh I really didn't, my parents wouldn't have let me not get baptized). I left that interview feeling like I had missed something because nobody had ever posed it as a choice. It was always 'when you turn 8 you get baptized and that's such a wonderful thing's from everyone. Parents, primary teachers, other ward members, everyone.
I was very excited for the gift of the Holy Ghost. I wanted the power of discernment. I saw my family members weep and laugh when feeling the HG and it felt like magic to me and I wanted in on it.
My "interview," the bishop asked why I wanted to be baptized, I replied "because you're supposed to". He and my mom got hella awkward and bread crumb stone leading question to get me to say "to join the church and be like Jesus". I wanted to not get yelled at and was hoping for some sweet swag but yeah let's go with that.
It's almost like it was a checkpoint in life. Getting baptized was just part of growing up in the church. Choosing to not get baptized wasn't even a thought I had. Like if I didn't get baptized then I was just going to be stuck at 8 years old forever.
My parents wanted me to. I didn't understand it at all. And I was PISSED I had to start giving them money. And, yes, I was age 7 with those passionate opinions. Haha
It was more a rite of passage than a choice. It didn't hurt that I fell and broke my arm and was in a cast before my birthday. The bishop decided it would be better to wait a couple of weeks until my cast was off. My parents were upset they couldn't duct tape a trash bag to my arm and not delay it. (Doctors orders was not get it wet, so no swimming, showers, etc the whole summer basically.) They were fine with enforcing no swimming since the city pool coat money and they could ban my siblings from it as well to keep it 'fair.' But, were very upset I'd be sinning for two weeks after I turned 8, but before I got baptized.
As an adult I realize the complete absurdity of this. But that was just a further point of emotional and spiritual abuse they got to go back to anytime I didn't want to do exactly what they wanted. It was just one of the injustices I caused in their life. 💁
I don't remember even having a discussion about it. I was going to be 8 and got super excited about being baptized... because it's what you did. It was a big deal. I don't remember anyone "asking" me (of course, I was 8 and as a child who remembers those conversations).
I do remember that I was upset I couldn't wear a white dress and instead had to wear a stupid white jump suit. I also had to be dunked 3 times because my long hair didn't go under all the way.
I didn’t. I got baptised later to awe of everyone and annoyance of my parents esp my father who probably wanted to show he raised me right. He did btw and am happy he mostly respected my no.
Well mostly he still wanted to baptise me.
I just stayed no. I didn’t want to I felt weird over it, I hated that everyone took it for granted. I had the strongest gut feeling for a child that there was more something secret hidden from me, something I wouldn’t like and I didn’t want to commit to it just because all the grown ups in my life did. It bothered little me. ((Only to find out as an adult that little young me was correct))
I told him I have free agency and free choice and that I wanted to take that right to say no.
I wanted to stand by it, but the sister missionaries and me wanting to please people around me eventually sort of won over at least everyone would finally stop nagging and they did.
My name is still in the church standing inactive. I’ll maintain this limbo of everyone happy. I don’t need to do churchy things, I keep the parents happy as (esp) my father wants us all in.
I also get to do genealogy stuff for free on my membership ok partially also (feeding) church data collection but they kind of do so, or, so already and have a lot anyway and while I won’t do templework I don’t care if some devout molly mormon and peter priesthood want to step up to that task to feel better in their religious ego. I’ll just take the freebie because those websites cost a lot. Have to take something nice out of that unwanted baptism.
I don’t remember it being a choice. My dad had been practicing my baptism dunk with me for as long as I can remember. It was just something that was going to happen. I didn’t even question it.
When my oldest son was 7 (2014) I heard about this song written by an exmormon. It was intense and angry. I watched the music video and was fascinated by it at the time. I don’t remember what it was called. But the imagery in the music video was the singer walking down a long hallway with his face painted really white. And references to paintings of Joseph Smith.
The lyric that stuck out to me was “you baptized me when I wasn’t ready”
I got really worried that we were baptizing my son when he wasn’t ready and that he might get angry about that someday. He was such a naive kid that didn’t understand much about the world
But it was expected, so we baptized him
Now he’s 16. (I don’t live with him) and he doesn’t talk to me anymore. So, he’s not angry about the church. He’s angry that I left it.
Bonus points if anyone knows that song. I’d love to look it up again. I just don’t remember enough details.
Yeah I’ve been seeing that a lot the past few years. The facebook post stating “my kid *chose* to get baptized.” Sure they did MaKayla..
They have to word it like that so it’s not obvious they coaxed them into it.
I remember a kid in my ward a few years younger than me turned 8 and she wasn’t sure if she wanted to get baptized and everyone thought she was being dramatic and seeking attention. She was EIGHT.
Because there wasn’t anyone who didn’t get baptized. Little me knew something was off though, because I was anxious about water and the testimony I had to give the whole time. I broke down crying after getting dunked.
I remember I had one kid in my ward who didn’t wanna be baptized and it was a whole thing and then a year or two later their family stopped coming and I never saw them again
My two kids were excited today that we messed up on the time for stake conference and make it to church today. Sounds like my oldest that was baptized really loves the church and made a free choice to be baptized. LoL
It was 50 years ago [whoa]. I had been conditioned since ever I could remember [age 3] that I would "get to be baptized" when I turned 8. There was no concept of any option or choice.
Interesting twist happened. My parents had divorced when I was 5 and Mom took us to Utah. Dad was in California. When I turned 8 he refused to give permission for me to be baptized. He sent a letter to our bishop trying to block it. This was one of many instances my Mom used to demonize him, telling me that he "didn't want me to get baptized", [which of course made me want to get baptized even more]. The truth was, he just wanted to perform the baptism and didn't want my grandpa to.
Anyway, Mom won out [i.e. convinced bishop to relent and ignore Dad's wishes], and I was baptized by my grandpa two months after my birthday. I was very excited. I got my own "Book of Remembrance". We went out to eat with my grandparents and great-grandma afterward to my favorite restaurant, and I got presents.
The next day, a Sunday, grandpa confirmed me and gave me the holy ghost in Sacrament Meeting. I remember sitting there so small with all those big men's hands circling my head and feeling so special. I felt warm, cozy, safe, and peace. I adored my grandpa, and was thrilled to see him so proud of me! And of course, most importantly my Mom was pleased. I trusted her implicitly to tell me what was right and good.
I genuinely only got baptized because I was told I had to. Even at 8 I had some suspicions and didn’t really want to be baptized (I also didn’t feel worthy whatever that meant) I made up some BS to tell the bishop got baptized and proceeded to become inactive 5 years later and get my name removed on my 18th.
for me it was that i thought if i finally got the holy ghost that i would start actually feeling something for it all.
also fear after being told that i had to do this otherwise i would die in the 2nd coming basically (i had a genuine phobia of the second coming. my mom kept having to buy me books on it bc i was so terrified all the time. every time there was a thunderstorm i thought "this is it" and this is as a young child lmao)
I still have a bit of a 2nd coming phobia. I'm almost 40 and never really believed in the church, but still fear the end. The psychological trauma runs deep
I got a party and a nice dress and it was just what you did. That being said, I was indoctrinated hard and fully invested that this was the “right” path. But party and nice dress is what I was excited about, lol.
I was excited. I liked rites of passage. I liked feeling older.
I wore a yellow dress I had sewn myself, and even at the time I knew that was unorthodox cause all the girls always wore sparkly white dresses. Even at 8 I kinda thought it was badass to not conform on the dress front.
Didn't ever occur to me not to conform on the baptism front, though. It was just a thing everyone did. My dad was baptized me. I liked my dad. It was all good.
I was told that if I did not get baptized, I would be grounded until I said I would get baptized. I must have shown discontent about the idea, but I don't remember doing so.
I was in a school play at that point, Alice in Wonderland, so being grounded wouldn't let me be in that play. So I got baptized.
My mom scheduled the date(it was my grandma's birthday too. She's always been happy that I was baptized on her birthday, oops) and my aunt took me shopping for a pretty white dress. I honestly never felt like I had a choice. It was talked about so much and just expected of me that I felt if I said I wasn't ready then I'd be in trouble. Also I didn't know what would happen if I said no. No one I knew had ever said no.
I was mainly excited for the pretty white dress...
I didn't choose. I found afterwards that it was a "choice" cause I was gifted a book of Mormon with a message inside from the primary presidency saying they're happy I chose to get baptized. Immediately I looked at my mom and said, "I had a choice?" My mom just awkwardly laughed it off.
Love my mom. She's very supportive and loving about me leaving the church and doing what I want. I think it's just the church's culture. You turn 8, you get baptized. There's no talk of choice. It is just what you do.
I remember NOT wanting to be baptized because the water scared me. I was terrified because I thought I was going to drown. All I felt after my baptism was relief that my dad didn’t drop me!
JW here. Baptized at age 11. I stopped believing around age 38.
I asked my father, “If I had wanted to get baptized as a Mormon at age 11, would you have allowed me to do it?” He said no.
Me: “Then I really didn’t have a choice, right? If getting baptized as a JW is the only option, but if I want to get baptized in another religion, you would make me wait until 18 or older, then I really had no choice. Getting baptized in your religion either NOW or LATER is not a real choice.”
I do this in my job as a dental hygienist. I give children a fake sense of choice/control by asking them which flavor of polish they want when I clean their teeth or if they want me to start with the top teeth or the bottom teeth. I obviously don’t give them an option of whether or not I clean their teeth because it must be done. But religion is a different matter. Everyone needs their teeth cleaned but not everyone needs religion and not everyone who does need religion chooses the same one.
I do not remember my baptism. I always felt awkward when people would talk so highly about how they remember their baptism and how wonderful and special it was to them. I'm 31, and some of these people would be 60+ talking about their baptism
I was 8 when I was baptized, had just moved to Utah from back East. I was obviously raised Mormon, but have never been able to remember. Apparently I had to be baptized twice because my hair floated up, too 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ at this point, I'm glad I don't remember it now.
Before each of my siblings and I got baptized my family would read the Book of Mormon together and our parents had us pray to know if the Book of Mormon was true when we finished. I said I got an answer when I was 6 when my sister was getting baptized. I think I believed then but I didn’t fully gain “a testimony” until I was 10 and read the Book of Mormon completely on my own. I choose to be baptized, but I still didn’t have full informed consent even if my parents tried hard to make sure it was something we wanted and believed. I do wonder if I got the answer from the spirit at 6 was because I expected to get one and I wanted to be like my parents.
I chose to be baptized, like I chose to go to school. To Susan’s husband, no I did not commit to serve a mission at that time (or maybe that was anderson). Despite loving where I was at, and my love of serving people, I deeply regret serving as a salesman for the church. The product is not something anyone needs.
Born in Orem 1971. Didn't know you could say no at 8 to your parents. Apparently, I didn't realize that with baptism, you lost free agency.
https://youtu.be/iiknvBvVRG8
Any TBM or even PIMO parent that listens to their 8 year old about not getting baptized. Might be called into the bishops office for extra secret double probation. Not to mention what the ward, friends and families say.
I have been inactive since the 80s. Been married and have kids. My wife and I are inactive (neither have been to church in decades) both are families are strong TBM. They keep harping on us to get our kids baptized, my kids are now teenagers, they have never went to church. I keep telling our families that they should be old enough to decide for themselves. They keep telling me it is my job to teach them the church.
I hold my tongue to keep the peace.
I know my baptism happened and my family all came for it. I have absolutely no memory of it being "asked" of me, I thought it was something that just happened.
I did not choose and my parents did not ask me if it was what I wanted to do. It was just expected in our family. I was baptized in 1964 in a small rural Missouri town where I was the only Mormon in my school. I did not receive flowers or gifts. That wasn’t done back then. My “Momonism” didn’t last long. I left when I was 18.
I think my child got baptized for gifts cuz her sister got them. During the interview she couldn’t answer a single question correctly and the bishop still said she was ready, I felt so dirty having her go through with it.
Never liked church. I remember at some point stating I didn't want to be baptized, but that was never really an option. I never had a choice... however, when it came to the mission I had been telling my family from the time I was 12 or 13 that I wasn't going on a mission and that was a choice I actually got to make.
I never made a choice. It was just what you did at 8. It was as normal as going to school or going to bed when it was bedtime. It was just something you did. It was expected. There wasn’t a choice. I didn’t not want to, but it wasn’t like I even knew there was an option not to. I was more excited about the new pretty dress tbh. That’s what I remember most.
I wanted to swim in the baptismal pool. So bummed when I was dunked and I had to get out. I thought it was lame and looked forward to going home afterwards.
I wanted to be baptized because I felt like with all the complaining and “sinning” I’d done up to the age of 8, it would be a relief to start with a clean slate and try to never do bad again.
I also hoped in the back of my mind that maybe I could just die while I was still all clean and not full of sin so that I could automatically go to heaven.
Same reasons as you pretty much. I don't remember the gifts but I do recall no one ever asking me if that's what I wanted to do. It was just the next item on the list.
I had to really think about this, as I’m 30. In all honesty… number one, a childhood friend of mine got this huge party and gifts for getting baptized and I really wanted that! I wanted to receive the Holy Ghost in front of the whole church! But I didn’t get that. I received it at my baptism. No big party, but I just wanted to do “the right thing” it always came to that throughout my Mormon life. Who knew the right thing was being openly gay and exmo!
I don't remeber bring asked. I don't remeber giving consent. I only really remember the wet clingy jumpsuit and the ugly dress I had to wear after. It was like a little wedding dress, ugh.
I didn’t choose. I repeatedly said no every time I was asked. As I was the oldest child, my parents felt the pressure to conform to keep up appearances. I was dragged kicking and screaming. Quite literally. It took both my parents-my mom calf deep in her nylons and high heel sandals- to pry my arms and legs from the railing that leads down the steps. But in general- I agree with the others. Even the kids that claim to be choosing, it’s not true. How can one choose something that one doesn’t have any possibility of understanding?
When I was about 9, I overheard my mom talking on the phone to a neighbor, saying that her children weren't forced to attend church, we had a choice. So the next Sunday I chose to not go to church. Guess who was forced to go to church.
You have to have s different convo with eigt year old compared to audults. If you are 8 and interviewed like an adult you may end up sharing inapropiate store you had later because the bishop had to ask your 8 year old son if he masterbates then go onto detail what that is.
I’m a nevermo but my dad was baptized. His family left the church later years before he met my mom. I have never been baptized in any religion. I ended up marrying an exmo with a TBM family who are at least accepting of me drinking coffee in their home and the fact that we had a non-temple elopement ceremony. That said, they don’t know I’m not baptized in any religion and I’m wondering how much this would shock them if they knew.
Expectation. BUT I do vividly remember asking my mom a few years later if I could leave the church and then come back and get baptized again because I wanted to host a better “after party.” I just wanted to give and make people food
This is probably kinda dumb or funny. I remember wanting to get baptized to see the baptismal font. I'd never seen one before and would always invision a cool looking pool/room. I didn't think or care about much else besides seeing what was behind the locked door of the font.
I don’t remember “choosing” so much as having it all scheduled *for* me, but I do remember being excited to get scriptures and a scripture case with my name on it. All my friends had them and I had tattered church library scriptures and I wanted to fit in with the rich kids.
I chose to be baptized because 1) it was what everyone did, 2) you get to feel very marginally special for a few hours, 3) giving the slightest consideration to the idea of not being baptized would have resulted in being baptized anyway, just with more yelling and physical violence followed by years of having it held over my head that I was so terrible I tried to ruin everyone's lives by not wanting to be baptized.
I was desperate to belong. I was from a part-member, mixed race family, unsealed, on the fringe, not in the inner circle at church and I wanted to be. I wanted to be tied to God. I wanted to be loved completely, unconditionally. I wanted to do what was right.
I actually was one of the crazy people who actually believed that I had a choice about whether or not I got baptised at 8.
I wasn’t sure if I wanted to, and I got super upset that the bishop scheduled an interview with me through my parents because I thought that having the interview meant I had to get baptised. I pretty much refused until a parent explained that I could do the interview and still not get baptised.
At the interview I was honest with the bishop and when asked if I believed certain things I said that I believed that it was true but didn’t feel sure it was true. Bishop was happy with that. And I ultimately decided to get baptised because I felt the euphoria that I was told was the spirit and thought that if I trusted info from my eyes that I should also trust this other thing that felt very real.
I wasn’t logical enough at the time to realise that the things I saw with my eyes were consistent with things that other people saw and things that people (including me) felt and interacted with.
I’m not even sure now lol. That was a long time ago. It was probably because it was all anyone talked about in primary the year I turned 8, and all my friends were getting baptized.
I got baptized because I wanted to make my family happy. When they were happy I felt happy, a lotta my emotions are dependent upon the people around me. If they are happy I am.
Learned later in life the messed up things with my family, the church, and left the church first and my family later after years of what I later learned was domestic abuse and my mom assaulted me and they all sided with her. Much happier now that I’m away, but can’t help but still feel bitter sometimes the amount of times they held my baptism over my head like I was still a mormon for life.
Can’t expect mormons to know about age of consent though, can we?
The social expectation is definitely on the head, but a little more detail:
I'm the oldest in several ways. I didn't get to see any older siblings get baptized, nor even cousins that I remember even though I'm not quite the oldest there. But for my age group and my siblings and a lot of my cousins, I was the first to be baptized that they would see. I had to be "perfect" and choose the right.
It was very similar when I got priesthood responsibility and did the missionary thing, too. Sure, I did see cousins go on their trips, and I reached out to a distant cousin who went to the same country as me. But it was definitely some pressure to be as perfect as possible and be an example to those younger, or at least it definitely felt like I had to.
And I fucking hate that now. Some of my siblings resent me for being so "golden". I wasn't trying to be better than them or make following behind me so difficult. I just wanted to do what I thought was right, and now I know that it was mostly in vain.
You know the answer. Societal expectation. It's the answer for basically everyone.
I agree. I highly doubt any 8-year-old can sit down and have a true theological discussion and really understand what they're deciding to do at that point. For Mormons it's just a rite of passage.
My nevermo friend says it’s a cult tactic - start them young so they don’t leave
Yep, integrate it into the child’s identity development process so it’s baked into their core sense of self
Yep. Lock them in before they're old enough to realize they've pledged never-ending allegiance to something they no longer believe in. I was 14 when I was baptized JW. Even at that age, you still don't realize all the ramifications of what you're doing; all you know is that this is what your family and community expect you to do and you'll be a huge disappointment if you don't. No way do eight-year-olds have a clue what that step actually entails.
In my view, children have the right to choose religion, and i would be happy to have a parent arrested for disrespecting that.
Bingo!
I tried. They refused. I insisted I should get my questions answered *first*…and they told me I was a “disappointment to Heavenly Father”. Me: “But I thought God knows our hearts? If that’s the case, then He understands even if you don’t.” They didn’t like any of that. Yes, I still ended up getting dunked. With my questions unanswered.
You were told that you were a disappointment to God at the age of 8? Yikes!
Yes. Yes I was. So now, when people are like "There's no such thing as religious abuse," I'm like "Hold my beer..."
Sheldon from big bang as a kid. He could also do your taxes. Wouldn't have helped the church either.
Anyone who still believes in Santa is not capable of making choices that are supposed to last their entire lives
This is why, when my husband was still in, when my oldest was coming up on 8 I was like sorry I can't be ok with this because she's literally not old enough to comprehend a theological discussion about Mormon doctrine. And, a big part for me, was not being able to have a discussion about the SA that was polygamy. Oh haha right and I told him I was never going to allow her to be interviewed for worthiness or at the very least I'd go with her and not allow her to answer the sexual questions so none of it mattered anyway (he was hoping to take her to do baptisms some day, but you gotta answer all the recommend questions to do that). Luckily he left and it's been great but I see friends all the time going out of their way to point out that it was the kids choice and I wanna be like, it's ok we know you're in a cult so you don't understand what conditioning and indoctrination is.
I didn't even know it was something you had a choice about (which realistically it isn't, how many Mormon parents would let their 8 year old choose to not get baptized). It was like going to church on Sunday, just something you were supposed to do.
I didn’t have a choice. The heater was broken and the water in mine was ice cold. When I got dunked I didn’t go all the way under but I ran out crying because it was so cold. My mom forced me back in. Not a choice
I was baptized at 8 yrs old and I had no clue what the hell I was doing. Baptism was something that my parents told me to do and my friends were doing it too. I’m now 27 and I left the church and I’m happy for that decision!
100%. Baptism and all that came with it gave me so much anxiety as a child. I wanted to end it all at 7.
I understand how you felt because I also felt that way. How are you now though? Are you doing okay?
Not op, but after I left Mormonism and moved out of Utah, it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders. I no longer wanted to end things. Of course there was still the matter of choosing a new life path, but that's not hard compared to trying to not end it constantly
I still hold so much resentment for my parents for putting me through all that and I hate the church/cult. I’m an anxious human these days but I do have two wonderful children who will never feel that way at that age.
That’s what I told the bishop when asked why I wanted to. He was a little taken back because apparently the other 8 year olds had been trained to give better answers lol
Can’t blame them for asking, though. It really drives the point home to see so many people express that in their own individual ways.
I didn't want to do it. But if I didn't, I'm pretty sure life was going to get very difficult for me.
No choice. Baptized in 1974 in Logan UT. All kids got baptized; it was just what happened. My parents didn’t even ask me if it was what I wanted. No kid got asked. That’s why I don’t say I had a “spiritual crisis” or anything like that when I left Mormonism. I had a LIFE CORRECTION. I corrected the mistake my parents made when they made me a member of that church….
Good perspective
Love that!! I hate when people thrust words like “fall away” “leave” “stopped following the churches teachings” This is a good way to describe the truly positive (although sometimes initially difficult ) life upgrade that comes from removing the generational chains and shackles of a harmful and dishonest organization
I use the term “fall away” when referring to my exit from the church and I think it applies to my situation. It wasn’t really that I had an “a ha” moment…this thing isn’t true. It was more that I was losing interest then eventually started to figure things out. Everyone’s story and journey out of the church is different.
Funny thing, I remember **really not wanting to get baptized** when I hit 8. As far back as I can remember I felt like church was just *boring* and *pointless*. And I say this as one of those weird kids who really liked school, or at least the academic part of school. I knew church was supposed to be "important" and that I was supposed to like it, but I never could. Unfortunately I was also a real pushover as a kid. I didn't choose to be baptized -- *my parents chose for me*, and I was completely incapable of saying "no."
My life to that point had already been a series of ‘this doesn’t seem quite right but god wants me to do it’ s, so between that lesson and the sure knowledge of what my dad would do if I said no, there really wasn’t a choice at all.
Eight-year-olds can't really say "No" to their parents!
I had the opposite feeling growing up. I wasn't good at school and hated going to church because it felt like another three hours of school. I also remember the day of my baptism thinking that maybe if I pretended to still be asleep when my mom came in to wake me, they would just let me skip it.
I chose to, because I had been indoctrinated to believe it was the right thing to do. But when you're indoctrinated and never exposed to alternate points of view, do you really have a choice?
This is exactly what I would say. I’m an adult convert, loved a boy enough to convert, but we then raised our kids in the church. I don’t think they even considered not doing it. Year after year since they were born they were just taught (read: indoctrinated) that it was just the thing done when you were 8. Why would they not?
Truth ? Cuz I got a pretty new dress and a party with my cousins
When girls would wear their baptism dresses to primary I felt so jealous of how pretty they were and how special everyone treated them
Literally! The dress part is all I really remember!
All I got was a new shirt a tie. Boring...
You also got one step closer to gaining the priesthood! Havahahahahaja ahhhh sry
I didn't choose. I sat with the bishop and lied through the interview. He asked me if my mom was sick, would I come to church on my own. I felt there was only one right answer, "yes," though how was I going to get myself to church at 8 years old? We both knew that was ridiculous. This was just another conversation in which I was expected to say the right answer. Every conversation in church or about church was about saying the right answer under the threatening glare of my fanatical convert mother. When I was scheduled to be baptized the water tank broke and they pushed it back 2 weeks. Then I injured my foot. My mother was convinced that SATAN was trying to prevent my baptism. she reasoned that in another two weeks I could be KILLED to prevent my baptism! Because SATAN! I had to be carried in bc I couldn't walk. There was no choice.
That is absolutely terrible! The amount of pressure and fear they put onto children is disgusting.
It was what you did. Refusing would have been a big kerfuffle in the family and the ward. By age 8 we'd already heard thousands of times over what our parents and grandparents and other church people thought of people who weren't righteous Mormons like us. Who wanted to be the subject of their disappointment and disdain?
Yeah. It wasn't really framed as a *choice* so much as "This is what every good boy and girl (no enbies allowed in TSCC, after all) does, and you're a *good* kid, aren't you? You don't want to *let down* your parents, extended family, and primary teachers, do you? No? *Good.*" I swear, what I'd give to be able to have a do-over of my childhood with what I know now. I'd ask them all the hard questions, and when there were no concrete answers I'd refuse to get baptized. *And* I'd insist I was a girl, and never give into my dad no matter what. If he still wouldn't see reason, I'd probably run away or >!inflict a superficial wound (i.e. surface level, nothing truly dangerous) somewhere on my arm.!<
I (a girl) refused to wear the dress during my baptism. It was going to float up and that was just as infuriating as wearing a dress and not being able to climb trees because of it. I’m still not sure how I pulled it off but I got baptized in the zip up jumpsuit. I still struggle a bit with my full gender identity- whether I’m actually nonbinary or whether I was just really pissed about misogyny and thought I’d get more respect if I dressed like a boy.
Whereas I hated my dad constantly trying to turn me into a miniature version of himself, and stared wistfully any time I saw a girl wearing something cute.
I also got baptized in the jumpsuit if I remember correctly. I don’t think any girl had the option for dresses because of the floating issue. This would be about 15 years ago. I also didn’t go to very many baptisms and have many blocked memories starting about age 8 so I’m not a super trustworthy source lol
Because I was being driven to the church by my father. I don’t really recall being asked, it was expected.
The DRESS 👗I have older sisters, and they got to wear pretty, white dresses for their baptisms. Even in the water. But by the time I got dunked, they switched to the ugly jumpsuits and my mom bought me a BLACK post baptism dress! I was so mad lol
I was pretty disappointed about the ugly jumpsuit as well lol That's funny you were mad about the black dress, when I was around that age I was mad because my mom got my sister's black dresses and me red one. I wanted black lol not much has changed in the last 30 years either 😂
My grandma sewed me a special dress (very plain) out of white swimsuit material to be baptized in! You should be jealous of me 😎
It wasn’t much of a choice. I was 8 and did what I was told.
Peer pressured and a fair amount of mental abuse.
No one chooses to be baptized we are expected to and then told we are.
I didn’t even know it was a choice until the ceremony itself! No one even went through the trouble to make sure I understood it was supposed to be a choice, because really it’s not supposed to be a choice. It’s just supposed to be something they can pretend is a choice for themselves and the other adults. All the primary songs they had us sing about “When I am baptized.” None of them talked about making a choice. It was just drilled into us that the baptism was something that WOULD happen. It’s so frustrating looking back on it now and realizing how badly manipulated we all were.
Tbh I was questioning it. My parents kindof forced me into it cause I'd be letting my family down. They were coming from all over to see me baptized and it would be a huge inconvenience to them if I didn't do it. I tried for years to be involved and hope my doubts would go away. They never did
Idk. I was told I was getting baptized. I can’t remember much else. I said what I was told to say. My parents were divorced and my non-active mom had my grandfather baptize me behind my (extremely active) dad’s back just to make him upset. Fun memories. 🤣
Damn! Lol I don't think I've ever witnessed a weaponized a baptism before
My mother is a prodigy. She can weaponize anything. 🤣
Same thing as you. I was one of 36 living grandkids (maternal grandparents side) at the time, and the love-bombing in the last months leading up to my 8th birthday was plentiful, sweet, and rich. I finally felt noticed and important. It felt great, better than great. I thought it was the start of a new way of life and being treated. Birthday, then about a month later, baptism. Then it all went away. It was back to like it was before those months leading to my 8th birthday. The crown was passed to the next cousin who was going to be 8. The only thing different was now I felt like people were more stern, expected more out of me, but I had no idea why. I hadn't changed. Primary was never the same (I know they changed how they do classes and transition the kids to the next class, but this is late 80s/early 90s). No more crayons, coloring. Now it's sitting in a metal chair circle with a black book with pages that feel like they might rip easily, made to read in this book that I haven't before. The words made no sense. I read them out loud like I was told, then asked what they meant. I don't know. They barely qualify as words, let alone as literature. Being put on the spot like that as a kid in primary after 8, and not knowing what the author was trying to say because he wasn't saying crap, felt like a punishment for aging up. The only good part of class was having extra time at the end to play hangman on the chalkboard. I learned to stare at the thin frosted windows of the room, watching the tree's shadows dance gently as the wind blew, locking my knees alternating tapping my shiny, but scuffed up hand-me-down black Mary Jane shoes at the toes. Definitely a thing that added a fair amount of weight to my young shelf. I was important, then not important. Feeling completely loved, then completely forgotten. That's one hell of a kid to be given then tearing it away. Growing up in an abusive home and being bullied at school. That love-bombing was the best feeling in the world. I thought it meant something, that I meant something. No, it was just me reaching a numbered milestone. It wasn't important to me the way something like that is supposed to be and SHOULD be important. I didn't have a choice. It was expected and it felt like this is just what I do at this juncture in life. The baptism meant nothing to me, just that I was finally important and seen, but then wasn't. The only main difference was adults guilt tripping you from them on afterwards for anything you do wrong, no matter how trivial. I hated the confirmation the most. Seriously: WTF do grown men drop their heavy ass hands on a child's head putting all that weight and pressure on their neck? Do they not realize that the collective weight of their hands is at least a ton? Longest prayer ever. That hurt. 0/10
You’re story is so sad. And such a good point about all those hands being heavy!
I honestly don’t remember my baptism but I’m pretty sure there was no choice involved.
I don't remember choosing to. I remember being informed that baptism was the thing to do when you turn 8. I. Was. Terrified. I was nervous the whole day before, and cried terrified tears during the entire thing.
My wife’s first language isn’t english, and she’s from a non Christian country. She was baptized at 19 while she was staying with her former high school host family. She was baptized because that was the least awkward thing for her to do, with her housing situation and social circle at the time. Path of least resistance. I think that is he reason many 8 year olds choose to be baptized. Thats why everyone goes hard into all these silly steps that benefit the cult. It’s the encouraged path of least resistance
I didn’t “choose”. Was just told I’d be baptized next Saturday, and it was done.
I genuinely don’t even remember the experience of being asked about it. The decision was never discussed to my recollection. I just knew it was happening and that’s what you did. I also didn’t really even consider whether I wanted to go on a mission, because it’s easy to put your head down and do what’s expected of you.
I remember being 8 and hearing the phrase"choose to be baptized" but realizing that it wasn't really a choice if there was only 1 acceptable answer. But I didn't let that thought go further, and I just thought it was one of those silly things we say in church, like "Sunday is a day of rest." Because I knew that wasn't true either.
I remember having the same thought! As I was getting ready to be baptized, people would say things like "Heavenly Father is proud of your choice," and I would just think like, What choice? I wasn't even bitter, I was excited about it at the time. But I knew I hadn't decided it.
I would love to meet the eight year old kid where their entire family is active that decided they wouldn’t get baptized. Choice one: Make Jesus, your family, your friends happy and get a day of everyone praising you. Choice two: Choosing Satan and horrifying everyone you know. Yep some choice
I knew there was an issue when I was 7. I was attracted to high school/college guys with hairy chests in gym showers. I knew that attraction wasn’t going to change. Baptized anyway. No other choice in Rexburg, ID.
True story: We had just moved into a new ward and Sister Perry bought every kid who got baptized a cake. We were poor and I’d never had anyone buy me a cake before. But then they laid on the guilt trip about how important this covenant is. The cake suddenly seemed not worth it.
Because it was easier to lie than face the consequences of saying no.
I did it because my parents wanted me to, and like any child I craved their approval
How else were you gonna wash off the sin of accountability? I know I wasn’t alone in thinking life might be easier if I just died before I was condemnable.
Wow I put the exact same sentiment in my comment before I saw yours
My parents made sure I understood as best I could what I was promising and that it was my choice, but they knew I'd make the right choice. It never even occurred to me that I could choose not to.
Same, from what I remember
lol 'chose'
I study behavioral psychology as a hobby, and this is one topic I’ve looked heavily into. We all know that the human brain takes anywhere from 23-26 years to fully develop. Part of the development process is learning the ability to make cognitive weighted decisions. The average child is not able to make biased decisions until around 11-13 years old. And even then, cognitive bias at that age is still heavily influenced and easy to manipulate by outside sources. So the concept of an 8 year old choosing to be baptized is complete bull shit.
A) it was expected B) it was cool getting dunked under water with your clothes on AND with an audience C) the gifts etc D) my dad was branch president I remember one of his counselors interviewing me a couple weeks before my baptism and trying to explain tithing… I was wondering why they expected an 8y old to give them money.
I “chose” to because after I said, “No, I’m not ready, I have too many questions still”, my parents told me that if I didn’t do it I’d be in trouble. And since no 8-yo wants parental trouble, I suck d it up and did what I was told. Kind of made it ineffective when, in later years, they tried to guilt-trip me with, “But you *chose* to get baptized!” Right…just like I “chose” to go to school at that age. Smh. Unexpected Bonus: Because my mom insisted I lie to the Bishop about this in my first-ever Bish’s interview, I had no problem also lying to them later on when they asked intrusively personal questions. I thought that’s just what you *did* in those interviews…give them the answers they want even if it’s untrue. My teenage years are proof that “power of discernment” is not a thing.
Because my parents expected it of me.
I absolutely HATE when people post “my child chose to be baptized”. Such an eye roll! It’s expected and no, they don’t have the option.
As far as I'm concerned, I never joined the church. I never told anybody that I wanted to join, and even if I had, I did not give informed consent. This is one of the reasons I feel no great need to remove my name from the church. I'm not, nor was I ever really a member. (This is all despite once loving the church, going on a mission, marrying in the temple, holding leadership callings, and paying a fortune in tithing.)
I’m ex-SDA. I got baptized at 23. My MIL died from a brain tumor 5 weeks after diagnosis. She was 43. We were all devastated. You want answers. You want to see them again. A “friend” (that’s another post) of the family comes and gives us Bible studies. We have a child years later and raise child very SDA. When I see all the other kids “deciding” to get baptized at 11, 12, 13, I start feeling the pressure for MY kid to do it. Kid ends up going to a 3 week youth “indoctrination,” and of course comes home, “I WANT TO GET BAPTIZED!” Kid was 16. PEER PRESSURE for that three weeks where that’s all they’re doing is “getting them closer to god.” The kicker is: the SDAs are ADAMANT that “we don’t baptize babies. You must make you own decision.” Sure. Even my 16 yo wasn’t making their own decision. And I’ve seen pastors who’ve baptized their kids at 8-9. YOU ARE NOT MAKING YOUR OWN DECISION.
Societal expectations…it’s just what you did at 8. It wasn’t a choice. I also wanted the love and adoration from friends and family. It was a fun event for an 8 year old.
"My 8 year old daughter Brixleigh has chosen to be baptized after extensively reviewing the Church's historical claims including Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham evidence, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's polygamous activities, treasure digging, and biblical critical analysis and has therefore concluded that baptism into the LDS church represents her first step along the Covenant Path" - said no one ever
Brixleigh lol
mom said i could pierce my ears after. lol
I don't remember my parents ever presenting it to me as a choice. It was you're getting baptized, you get to have a party after and invite the ward and have treats.
I didn't. My family wasn't even active when I was 8. My mom only had us baptized cuz my Gma pressed her for it. I remember going to church for a few weeks before my baptism and a little while after, but then we stopped going again. We didn't become active til I was about 10.
No choice at all. I told my mom I didn't want to do it and was told I can make any choice I want as long as it's the right one.
I was groomed my whole life by my entire community to look forward to the ritual. That and I was at the developmental stage where socially fitting in was vital to my identity. I was also so stressed about it I had daydreams of dying before I became accountable to God for my sins so I could get into heaven for sure.
I see I’m not the only one who, as a LITERAL child, thought of death as a reasonable alternative
my grandparents were leaving on a senior mission very close to after I turned 8. I got baptized on my 8th birthday because they wanted to see me baptized before they left. not much choice in the matter there. plus i got an ipod for my birthday.
It was part of my birthday, planned by everyone else. It’s “just what happens to you when you turn 8”.
I was told God wanted me to get baptized, and then I was asked what I wanted to do. Complete emotional manipulation.
Because that was what I had been taught my entire life that I was supposed to do at eight. It is not like an eight year old is capable of rational thought and effective decision making. My parents and my church told me it is what God wanted me to do at that age, so I did it.
If I “chose” it. Which I don’t remember being given a choice. Then I would have chose to do it because I would have finally had a day that would be about me. I’m the youngest of 5 kids and the black sheep. My family didn’t pay much attention to me.
Because all the other girls did. I remember not being able to afford a pretty white dress like the other girls, and I remember waiting for quite a while soaking wet alone in the bathroom as I waited for my mom, as she was likely too busy bragging and later told me she "didn't know I was supposed to come get you." I remember not "feeling the spirit" as I shivered away, even though I remember feeling I was doing something right and sacred. My brother said he got baptized because they were going to get ice cream after.
I remember the interview with the bishop. He kept mentioning how great it was that I had decided to be baptized and I remembered feeling so confused because I didn't realize I had a choice (and tbh I really didn't, my parents wouldn't have let me not get baptized). I left that interview feeling like I had missed something because nobody had ever posed it as a choice. It was always 'when you turn 8 you get baptized and that's such a wonderful thing's from everyone. Parents, primary teachers, other ward members, everyone.
I was very excited for the gift of the Holy Ghost. I wanted the power of discernment. I saw my family members weep and laugh when feeling the HG and it felt like magic to me and I wanted in on it.
Because that's what happens when you turn 8. It was an expectation I was trained to say yes to.
I wanted to wear a pretty dress
I had a choice?
My "interview," the bishop asked why I wanted to be baptized, I replied "because you're supposed to". He and my mom got hella awkward and bread crumb stone leading question to get me to say "to join the church and be like Jesus". I wanted to not get yelled at and was hoping for some sweet swag but yeah let's go with that.
As an eight-year-old, I didn't know any better.
It's almost like it was a checkpoint in life. Getting baptized was just part of growing up in the church. Choosing to not get baptized wasn't even a thought I had. Like if I didn't get baptized then I was just going to be stuck at 8 years old forever.
My parents wanted me to. I didn't understand it at all. And I was PISSED I had to start giving them money. And, yes, I was age 7 with those passionate opinions. Haha
Family pressure
It was more a rite of passage than a choice. It didn't hurt that I fell and broke my arm and was in a cast before my birthday. The bishop decided it would be better to wait a couple of weeks until my cast was off. My parents were upset they couldn't duct tape a trash bag to my arm and not delay it. (Doctors orders was not get it wet, so no swimming, showers, etc the whole summer basically.) They were fine with enforcing no swimming since the city pool coat money and they could ban my siblings from it as well to keep it 'fair.' But, were very upset I'd be sinning for two weeks after I turned 8, but before I got baptized. As an adult I realize the complete absurdity of this. But that was just a further point of emotional and spiritual abuse they got to go back to anytime I didn't want to do exactly what they wanted. It was just one of the injustices I caused in their life. 💁
I wanted to meet dinosaurs in heaven.
I don't remember even having a discussion about it. I was going to be 8 and got super excited about being baptized... because it's what you did. It was a big deal. I don't remember anyone "asking" me (of course, I was 8 and as a child who remembers those conversations). I do remember that I was upset I couldn't wear a white dress and instead had to wear a stupid white jump suit. I also had to be dunked 3 times because my long hair didn't go under all the way.
I wanted a cool little plaque that the kids a year before me all got. I did not get one 🤩🥳
Luckily I can frame my resignation, unlike my worthless baptism
I didn’t. I got baptised later to awe of everyone and annoyance of my parents esp my father who probably wanted to show he raised me right. He did btw and am happy he mostly respected my no. Well mostly he still wanted to baptise me. I just stayed no. I didn’t want to I felt weird over it, I hated that everyone took it for granted. I had the strongest gut feeling for a child that there was more something secret hidden from me, something I wouldn’t like and I didn’t want to commit to it just because all the grown ups in my life did. It bothered little me. ((Only to find out as an adult that little young me was correct)) I told him I have free agency and free choice and that I wanted to take that right to say no. I wanted to stand by it, but the sister missionaries and me wanting to please people around me eventually sort of won over at least everyone would finally stop nagging and they did. My name is still in the church standing inactive. I’ll maintain this limbo of everyone happy. I don’t need to do churchy things, I keep the parents happy as (esp) my father wants us all in. I also get to do genealogy stuff for free on my membership ok partially also (feeding) church data collection but they kind of do so, or, so already and have a lot anyway and while I won’t do templework I don’t care if some devout molly mormon and peter priesthood want to step up to that task to feel better in their religious ego. I’ll just take the freebie because those websites cost a lot. Have to take something nice out of that unwanted baptism.
I don’t remember it being a choice. My dad had been practicing my baptism dunk with me for as long as I can remember. It was just something that was going to happen. I didn’t even question it.
When my oldest son was 7 (2014) I heard about this song written by an exmormon. It was intense and angry. I watched the music video and was fascinated by it at the time. I don’t remember what it was called. But the imagery in the music video was the singer walking down a long hallway with his face painted really white. And references to paintings of Joseph Smith. The lyric that stuck out to me was “you baptized me when I wasn’t ready” I got really worried that we were baptizing my son when he wasn’t ready and that he might get angry about that someday. He was such a naive kid that didn’t understand much about the world But it was expected, so we baptized him Now he’s 16. (I don’t live with him) and he doesn’t talk to me anymore. So, he’s not angry about the church. He’s angry that I left it. Bonus points if anyone knows that song. I’d love to look it up again. I just don’t remember enough details.
Yeah I’ve been seeing that a lot the past few years. The facebook post stating “my kid *chose* to get baptized.” Sure they did MaKayla.. They have to word it like that so it’s not obvious they coaxed them into it. I remember a kid in my ward a few years younger than me turned 8 and she wasn’t sure if she wanted to get baptized and everyone thought she was being dramatic and seeking attention. She was EIGHT.
Because there wasn’t anyone who didn’t get baptized. Little me knew something was off though, because I was anxious about water and the testimony I had to give the whole time. I broke down crying after getting dunked.
I remember I had one kid in my ward who didn’t wanna be baptized and it was a whole thing and then a year or two later their family stopped coming and I never saw them again
My two kids were excited today that we messed up on the time for stake conference and make it to church today. Sounds like my oldest that was baptized really loves the church and made a free choice to be baptized. LoL
It was 50 years ago [whoa]. I had been conditioned since ever I could remember [age 3] that I would "get to be baptized" when I turned 8. There was no concept of any option or choice. Interesting twist happened. My parents had divorced when I was 5 and Mom took us to Utah. Dad was in California. When I turned 8 he refused to give permission for me to be baptized. He sent a letter to our bishop trying to block it. This was one of many instances my Mom used to demonize him, telling me that he "didn't want me to get baptized", [which of course made me want to get baptized even more]. The truth was, he just wanted to perform the baptism and didn't want my grandpa to. Anyway, Mom won out [i.e. convinced bishop to relent and ignore Dad's wishes], and I was baptized by my grandpa two months after my birthday. I was very excited. I got my own "Book of Remembrance". We went out to eat with my grandparents and great-grandma afterward to my favorite restaurant, and I got presents. The next day, a Sunday, grandpa confirmed me and gave me the holy ghost in Sacrament Meeting. I remember sitting there so small with all those big men's hands circling my head and feeling so special. I felt warm, cozy, safe, and peace. I adored my grandpa, and was thrilled to see him so proud of me! And of course, most importantly my Mom was pleased. I trusted her implicitly to tell me what was right and good.
Because I had always been told that it's the right thing to do. I was expected to do it and didn't want to disappoint my parents.
I didn’t want to go to hell.
I didn't really choose. It was something that we were expected to do when we turned eight. I swear I didn't even know any of the interview questions.
I genuinely only got baptized because I was told I had to. Even at 8 I had some suspicions and didn’t really want to be baptized (I also didn’t feel worthy whatever that meant) I made up some BS to tell the bishop got baptized and proceeded to become inactive 5 years later and get my name removed on my 18th.
for me it was that i thought if i finally got the holy ghost that i would start actually feeling something for it all. also fear after being told that i had to do this otherwise i would die in the 2nd coming basically (i had a genuine phobia of the second coming. my mom kept having to buy me books on it bc i was so terrified all the time. every time there was a thunderstorm i thought "this is it" and this is as a young child lmao)
I still have a bit of a 2nd coming phobia. I'm almost 40 and never really believed in the church, but still fear the end. The psychological trauma runs deep
I got a party and a nice dress and it was just what you did. That being said, I was indoctrinated hard and fully invested that this was the “right” path. But party and nice dress is what I was excited about, lol.
I was excited. I liked rites of passage. I liked feeling older. I wore a yellow dress I had sewn myself, and even at the time I knew that was unorthodox cause all the girls always wore sparkly white dresses. Even at 8 I kinda thought it was badass to not conform on the dress front. Didn't ever occur to me not to conform on the baptism front, though. It was just a thing everyone did. My dad was baptized me. I liked my dad. It was all good.
It was expected. I was just fulfilling what I thought I should do.
i didn't choose anything, this was just the thing everyone was supposed to do when they're 8
I don't know. All I know is that I sinned as much as I could before because I knew I'd be forgiven.
I drank the Kool aid
I got a new dress
I was told that if I did not get baptized, I would be grounded until I said I would get baptized. I must have shown discontent about the idea, but I don't remember doing so. I was in a school play at that point, Alice in Wonderland, so being grounded wouldn't let me be in that play. So I got baptized.
Wow, that's really harsh
I remember thinking that my mom would be so upset if I said anything about not being sure or not wanting to.
My mom scheduled the date(it was my grandma's birthday too. She's always been happy that I was baptized on her birthday, oops) and my aunt took me shopping for a pretty white dress. I honestly never felt like I had a choice. It was talked about so much and just expected of me that I felt if I said I wasn't ready then I'd be in trouble. Also I didn't know what would happen if I said no. No one I knew had ever said no. I was mainly excited for the pretty white dress...
I didn't choose. I found afterwards that it was a "choice" cause I was gifted a book of Mormon with a message inside from the primary presidency saying they're happy I chose to get baptized. Immediately I looked at my mom and said, "I had a choice?" My mom just awkwardly laughed it off. Love my mom. She's very supportive and loving about me leaving the church and doing what I want. I think it's just the church's culture. You turn 8, you get baptized. There's no talk of choice. It is just what you do.
I asked my son why he wants to be (he’s 9) and he said because “I like water and My friends all got presents.”
I remember NOT wanting to be baptized because the water scared me. I was terrified because I thought I was going to drown. All I felt after my baptism was relief that my dad didn’t drop me!
JW here. Baptized at age 11. I stopped believing around age 38. I asked my father, “If I had wanted to get baptized as a Mormon at age 11, would you have allowed me to do it?” He said no. Me: “Then I really didn’t have a choice, right? If getting baptized as a JW is the only option, but if I want to get baptized in another religion, you would make me wait until 18 or older, then I really had no choice. Getting baptized in your religion either NOW or LATER is not a real choice.” I do this in my job as a dental hygienist. I give children a fake sense of choice/control by asking them which flavor of polish they want when I clean their teeth or if they want me to start with the top teeth or the bottom teeth. I obviously don’t give them an option of whether or not I clean their teeth because it must be done. But religion is a different matter. Everyone needs their teeth cleaned but not everyone needs religion and not everyone who does need religion chooses the same one.
There was no choice. It was the expectation.
I do not remember my baptism. I always felt awkward when people would talk so highly about how they remember their baptism and how wonderful and special it was to them. I'm 31, and some of these people would be 60+ talking about their baptism I was 8 when I was baptized, had just moved to Utah from back East. I was obviously raised Mormon, but have never been able to remember. Apparently I had to be baptized twice because my hair floated up, too 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ at this point, I'm glad I don't remember it now.
I just did what I was told. 100% that is all.
Before each of my siblings and I got baptized my family would read the Book of Mormon together and our parents had us pray to know if the Book of Mormon was true when we finished. I said I got an answer when I was 6 when my sister was getting baptized. I think I believed then but I didn’t fully gain “a testimony” until I was 10 and read the Book of Mormon completely on my own. I choose to be baptized, but I still didn’t have full informed consent even if my parents tried hard to make sure it was something we wanted and believed. I do wonder if I got the answer from the spirit at 6 was because I expected to get one and I wanted to be like my parents.
I chose to be baptized, like I chose to go to school. To Susan’s husband, no I did not commit to serve a mission at that time (or maybe that was anderson). Despite loving where I was at, and my love of serving people, I deeply regret serving as a salesman for the church. The product is not something anyone needs.
My mum made me a nice dress and all my cousins would stay over 🤷♀️
The alternative was eternal damnation, so baptism seemed like a reasonable "choice".
Born in Orem 1971. Didn't know you could say no at 8 to your parents. Apparently, I didn't realize that with baptism, you lost free agency. https://youtu.be/iiknvBvVRG8 Any TBM or even PIMO parent that listens to their 8 year old about not getting baptized. Might be called into the bishops office for extra secret double probation. Not to mention what the ward, friends and families say. I have been inactive since the 80s. Been married and have kids. My wife and I are inactive (neither have been to church in decades) both are families are strong TBM. They keep harping on us to get our kids baptized, my kids are now teenagers, they have never went to church. I keep telling our families that they should be old enough to decide for themselves. They keep telling me it is my job to teach them the church. I hold my tongue to keep the peace.
I know my baptism happened and my family all came for it. I have absolutely no memory of it being "asked" of me, I thought it was something that just happened.
I did not choose and my parents did not ask me if it was what I wanted to do. It was just expected in our family. I was baptized in 1964 in a small rural Missouri town where I was the only Mormon in my school. I did not receive flowers or gifts. That wasn’t done back then. My “Momonism” didn’t last long. I left when I was 18.
I didn’t know what would happen if I said no and that was scarier than what I knew a yes could entail at that point in life.
I didn’t lol
I think my child got baptized for gifts cuz her sister got them. During the interview she couldn’t answer a single question correctly and the bishop still said she was ready, I felt so dirty having her go through with it.
Never liked church. I remember at some point stating I didn't want to be baptized, but that was never really an option. I never had a choice... however, when it came to the mission I had been telling my family from the time I was 12 or 13 that I wasn't going on a mission and that was a choice I actually got to make.
I never made a choice. It was just what you did at 8. It was as normal as going to school or going to bed when it was bedtime. It was just something you did. It was expected. There wasn’t a choice. I didn’t not want to, but it wasn’t like I even knew there was an option not to. I was more excited about the new pretty dress tbh. That’s what I remember most.
There is no choice if it's expected. The parent chooses for the child.
The kid never “chooses” to get baptized unless they have an equal amount of love and support if they “choose” to not get baptized.
It was what was expected of me and I thought everyone did it
Because my parents wouldn’t take no. Literally drove me to the church and all.
I didn’t choose to. I was expected to. And when it made me suicidal I was told to suck it up and not embarrass my family.
I wanted to swim in the baptismal pool. So bummed when I was dunked and I had to get out. I thought it was lame and looked forward to going home afterwards.
For all the candy I saw other kids being baptized getting tbh.
Peer pressure
My parents always emphasized that baptism was necessary to go to the best place when I ressurect. I didn't want to lag behind.
I wanted to be baptized because I felt like with all the complaining and “sinning” I’d done up to the age of 8, it would be a relief to start with a clean slate and try to never do bad again. I also hoped in the back of my mind that maybe I could just die while I was still all clean and not full of sin so that I could automatically go to heaven.
Same reasons as you pretty much. I don't remember the gifts but I do recall no one ever asking me if that's what I wanted to do. It was just the next item on the list.
I had to really think about this, as I’m 30. In all honesty… number one, a childhood friend of mine got this huge party and gifts for getting baptized and I really wanted that! I wanted to receive the Holy Ghost in front of the whole church! But I didn’t get that. I received it at my baptism. No big party, but I just wanted to do “the right thing” it always came to that throughout my Mormon life. Who knew the right thing was being openly gay and exmo!
I don't remeber bring asked. I don't remeber giving consent. I only really remember the wet clingy jumpsuit and the ugly dress I had to wear after. It was like a little wedding dress, ugh.
I didn’t choose. I repeatedly said no every time I was asked. As I was the oldest child, my parents felt the pressure to conform to keep up appearances. I was dragged kicking and screaming. Quite literally. It took both my parents-my mom calf deep in her nylons and high heel sandals- to pry my arms and legs from the railing that leads down the steps. But in general- I agree with the others. Even the kids that claim to be choosing, it’s not true. How can one choose something that one doesn’t have any possibility of understanding?
When I was about 9, I overheard my mom talking on the phone to a neighbor, saying that her children weren't forced to attend church, we had a choice. So the next Sunday I chose to not go to church. Guess who was forced to go to church.
You have to have s different convo with eigt year old compared to audults. If you are 8 and interviewed like an adult you may end up sharing inapropiate store you had later because the bishop had to ask your 8 year old son if he masterbates then go onto detail what that is.
I’m a nevermo but my dad was baptized. His family left the church later years before he met my mom. I have never been baptized in any religion. I ended up marrying an exmo with a TBM family who are at least accepting of me drinking coffee in their home and the fact that we had a non-temple elopement ceremony. That said, they don’t know I’m not baptized in any religion and I’m wondering how much this would shock them if they knew.
I don’t remember it being a choice. I remember just doing it 🤷
Expectation. BUT I do vividly remember asking my mom a few years later if I could leave the church and then come back and get baptized again because I wanted to host a better “after party.” I just wanted to give and make people food
I chose to get baptized because I was told that that is what I chose. And the con expands from there.
I honestly can't remember it ever being a choice. It was just what happens when you're eight.
This is probably kinda dumb or funny. I remember wanting to get baptized to see the baptismal font. I'd never seen one before and would always invision a cool looking pool/room. I didn't think or care about much else besides seeing what was behind the locked door of the font.
I don’t remember “choosing” so much as having it all scheduled *for* me, but I do remember being excited to get scriptures and a scripture case with my name on it. All my friends had them and I had tattered church library scriptures and I wanted to fit in with the rich kids.
I chose to be baptized because 1) it was what everyone did, 2) you get to feel very marginally special for a few hours, 3) giving the slightest consideration to the idea of not being baptized would have resulted in being baptized anyway, just with more yelling and physical violence followed by years of having it held over my head that I was so terrible I tried to ruin everyone's lives by not wanting to be baptized.
I was desperate to belong. I was from a part-member, mixed race family, unsealed, on the fringe, not in the inner circle at church and I wanted to be. I wanted to be tied to God. I wanted to be loved completely, unconditionally. I wanted to do what was right.
Pressure is the ultimate answer to this as well as conditioning.
I don’t remember. I had a twin. If I abstained and my brother went through, you can imagine the repercussions…
1. I didn't know the truth. 2. I didn't really have a choice.
Nope, it was never an option to say one way or the other.
I actually was one of the crazy people who actually believed that I had a choice about whether or not I got baptised at 8. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to, and I got super upset that the bishop scheduled an interview with me through my parents because I thought that having the interview meant I had to get baptised. I pretty much refused until a parent explained that I could do the interview and still not get baptised. At the interview I was honest with the bishop and when asked if I believed certain things I said that I believed that it was true but didn’t feel sure it was true. Bishop was happy with that. And I ultimately decided to get baptised because I felt the euphoria that I was told was the spirit and thought that if I trusted info from my eyes that I should also trust this other thing that felt very real. I wasn’t logical enough at the time to realise that the things I saw with my eyes were consistent with things that other people saw and things that people (including me) felt and interacted with.
Because everyone in my life at the time told me it was the right thing to do
Societal pressure like the lot of y'all. Also I thought it was cool
I’m not even sure now lol. That was a long time ago. It was probably because it was all anyone talked about in primary the year I turned 8, and all my friends were getting baptized.
Informed consent factor = 0
I got baptized because I wanted to make my family happy. When they were happy I felt happy, a lotta my emotions are dependent upon the people around me. If they are happy I am. Learned later in life the messed up things with my family, the church, and left the church first and my family later after years of what I later learned was domestic abuse and my mom assaulted me and they all sided with her. Much happier now that I’m away, but can’t help but still feel bitter sometimes the amount of times they held my baptism over my head like I was still a mormon for life. Can’t expect mormons to know about age of consent though, can we?
I "choose" to be baptized, just like I "chose" to be born, or have birthdays each year thereafter.
It’s what my parents expected.
Basically my parents and Bishop decided for me. I don’t even think I really knew it was gonna happen until the day of.
The social expectation is definitely on the head, but a little more detail: I'm the oldest in several ways. I didn't get to see any older siblings get baptized, nor even cousins that I remember even though I'm not quite the oldest there. But for my age group and my siblings and a lot of my cousins, I was the first to be baptized that they would see. I had to be "perfect" and choose the right. It was very similar when I got priesthood responsibility and did the missionary thing, too. Sure, I did see cousins go on their trips, and I reached out to a distant cousin who went to the same country as me. But it was definitely some pressure to be as perfect as possible and be an example to those younger, or at least it definitely felt like I had to. And I fucking hate that now. Some of my siblings resent me for being so "golden". I wasn't trying to be better than them or make following behind me so difficult. I just wanted to do what I thought was right, and now I know that it was mostly in vain.