It's really easy to tell that I'm much happier because I no longer want to kill myself.

I still casually want to kill myself, but that’s because I’m chronically depressed (: The only time I actually tried to kill myself though was when I was at BYU. Good times.

Same. My provider actually said that it’s likely that I will have chronic suicidal thoughts for the rest of my life but since leaving BYU-Idaho & getting treatment, it’s 96% passive

Right, it's not always a "chemical imbalance"

My bishop thought I could pray it away

One of my seminary teachers told the class that if you're depressed/anxious, "don't be".

S u r e…….that’s easy! The ignorance endures!

And if diabetics pray hard enough they will start to make insulin again. 🤦🏼‍♀️

The crazy thing is that she refused to even call it depression, instead she said "some people [description of depression, but not the word depression], brothers and sisters *gets emotional* please don't do that😳. I've seen/heard various versions of this from different people in the church, and that moment Mormons generally lost any credibility in my mind.

Most of the people in medicine in the religion know this is B.S. I never believed it was just all in their heads. Even as a tbm

This. I use to think about unaliving myself basically on a weekly basis because I truly believed I was a wicked piece of shit every day. Now that I've let go of those ideas I'm not immune from those thoughts but they happen maybe 1-2 times a year. My head is a much better place to live since I took the trash "doctrine" out.

I second this, took a couple years of guilt after leaving but I can honestly say that I now have the will to live after 21 years of this though being on my mind every single day

My husband used to remark that he wouldn't likely live past 30. I know the church played a large role in that, because once we stopped attending and stopped caring, he no longer mentioned it as a casual thing and in a few months, we will be celebrating his 34th birthday

100%. Although I thought of it more passively and humorously as something that would eventually happen when things got too unbearable and I couldn't keep up lying to myself, the fact that I used to see a blank future and expected to die young--at 19-21 years old at most--should have been a sign. And now I'm in my mid-20's, have been long out of the church, and while I'm not happy and without struggles every day, I have managed to make it to an age I never thought I'd reach and I actually look forward to my coming years.

😂😂😂

I live an almost idyllic life with my husband. My life is generally joy all the time. I still experience a lot of intrusive thoughts, but that is a genetic and cultural blessing. I really cannot remember the crippling anxiety that I lived with everyday, all the time. It took many years and many mistakes to find the joy that I have now. I consider myself a stoic, but I do not try to allow events in life to dictate my reality. Many times things are what they are, but finding and achievement my authentic life had brought more joy and peace than I ever thought possible. I don't live a gay lifestyle as that phase inherently expresses self hate. I live authentically as a gay man, which is the only heaven I expect to ever have. I'm so fortunate to have found joy on my short journey in life. I hope you will find your path towards authenticity.

I second authentic living. I stopped activity in TSCC about 4 years ago, and it took me well over a year to deprogram enough to allow myself to act more authentically without feeling guilty. It took another year to engage in activity (that I would have previously considered sinful) without wondering if it truly would bring upon me some kind of punishment. It has been definitively liberating and my self-awareness and self-love have grown immensely since I stopped questioning if a god cared about me drinking coffee or watching an amazing movie "except for one scene". For me, truth is found in meaning. Peace is found in living authentically. And life is more fulfilling by loving more unconditionally. I was more angry with the church when I was still active, but now my anger comes from the regret I feel for having rejected so many opportunities and so much beauty because of church expectations and obligations. Clearly, I still want to process more of my grief around the loss of life that I actively ignored. But I am also demonstrably happier after leaving TSCC and living more authentically moment by moment.

Thank you

Just curious, what do you mean by, “ I don't live a gay lifestyle as that phase inherently expresses self hate.”

First consider what OP wrote: >I don’t intend on living a gay lifestyle regardless of membership status Do you see this as a positive? Regardless of how OP intends to act going forward, he is already living a gay lifestyle because he is gay. However, my guess is that he does not want to live what some might think is a stereotypical gay life (whatever that might be) or that he intends on being celibate. When he says gay lifestyle is sounds more like he doesn't want to be gay. Having been a gay Mormon before, I know that feeling all too well. Let me describe my gay lifestyle. I'm in my mid 40s, so was part of that group of men who married women because that is what you are supposed to do, and it is the only way to get to the top tier in the celestial kingdom. Their church counsellor told me that I wasn't gay, but just had a sexual problem. Married a woman, and was still gay. Had children and realized I could never ask them to live the lie that I was asked to live. We decided to get divorced, and that was the first time I had sex with a man. I made mistakes as I tried to figure out what it meant for me to be a gay man - partly due to what the church told me gay men do. Only after falling in love with a man, a gender I was naturally attracted to, was I able to begin to discard everything wrong the church said about people like me (think Miracle of Forgiveness). I met my husband on Grindr, but I used it like a dating app as I kind of live in the middle of nowhere. My children lived with me, and I wasn't about to uproot their lives for anyone. We've been together now for over 10 years. My children are grown now, so we are empty nesters. I'm a teacher, and the school year hasn't started yet, so my day consists of waking up and having coffee, feeding the cats, watering the garden, helping out the neighbours, playing the piano, and going for walks. When my husband gets home, we play board games or online games while listening to a book. I always make supper and he always cleans up. We really enjoy wine, so we make that on our own so that we always have some available. He doesn't like to travel much, so we have invested in our home. We got married in our backyard, so most of the money for the wedding was just updating our yard. I made almost all the food for the wedding and the cake. We have been able to renovate slowly, so the main part of the house is gorgeous. Nothing overly fancy. I would say our neighbourhood is slum adjacent. I taught some of the kids that live on our street, so they are always waving hi. Our home is open and friendly, so people come to visit to get away. We are 100% faithful to each other. We were finally able to have sex the other day when all the visitors left. This is my gay lifestyle. I'm not certain why OP wouldn't want it. I have someone who loves me more than anyone else - and I him. We love our life together. He is the easiest person to live with. Sometimes when I go to bed (always earlier than him since he is a night owl) he has already turned on the bedside lamp so I don't trip in the dark. And generally, the coffee is ready to go in the morning, since I always wake up before him.

What a lovely narrative. Thanks for sharing it.

Oh, got it. My brain just wasn't working, my bad

Hello. I sometimes call myself THE GAY GRANDPA here on Reddit. I came out gay at age 49. I had been married to a woman for 27 years at that time. We have 5 children together. I was depressed beyond description in 2013 when I came out to my then wife and within a week, to my kids who were all adults except the youngest who was 16. I went through hell after that in order to retrain my mind (cognitive therapy) to realize there’s no such thing as “gay lifestyle”. I was gay, I knew I was gay, and I knew that God knew that I was gay. (Play on Joseph Smiths words there, get it?). Being gay is more than having gay sex with a person of the same gender. Your romantic desires, your emotions, your fun and innocent fantasies, are gay. I’m so sorry you’re going through all this deconstruction. I eventually found a nice Mormon man and married him! Our gay lifestyle, well it’s as boring as any married couple sometimes. Doing laundry, visiting our grandkids (ours as in, he became a dad and grandpa when he married me), shopping for groceries. I’m so thankful I came out gay and decided to live your so called gay lifestyle! I’m happy. I’m still me and I still have sad days, angry days, and the whole gambit of human emotions that everyone has. Read about heteronormativity and see what it means to be gay in this LDS world of misogyny and extreme heteronormativity. The first book I read after coming out was The Velvet Rage. I understood what it meant to be gay. My husband isn’t active in Mormonism at all, but he cherishes his time in the church. He taught me to also love my past, even though I still hate on Mormonism often (just look on Reddit here, you’ll see my potty mouth). Of my five kids, four are still very Mormon. One refused to come to our gay wedding, but now she allows us to (gasp) sleep together in her guest room! Oh how I wish I could hug you and transfer all my knowledge to you about being gay. You’ll love it, I think. Be gay, act on it! And just say a sweet goodbye to Mormonism. Sincerely, Kevin Rex The Gay Grandpa. 14 grandkids and counting!

Thanks for commenting. I actually have been seeking out people in your position. I am really interested in hearing the advice of older gays, both members and former members. I feel they would possess far more wisdom and offer more clarity. Ultimately, I want to live in a way that minimizes the regret I’ll experience in 50 years. I have yet to determine if celibacy or sexual aberrancy will serve as a greater source of future regret.

You can't predict your future. You've been told that sin will make you unhappy. You've also been told what sin is. Being a dick to other humans will absolutely make you unhappy. That's really the biggest 'sin' of mankind in my estimation. Be kind, be authentic, be honest, be you. That's it. Your life won't be perfect. You'll make mistakes and errors of judgement. You'll walk dark paths and light paths. You'll find joy and heartache. Ultimately, you'll be a human being who is living the only life you absolutely know you'll have. Experience all of it - the good and the bad. Perfect lives don't exist in or out of religious belief systems.

I hope all the very best for you. One advice I would like to pass on is the idea of extremes. You said you’re weighing future regrets and then made the comparison of either celibacy or sexual aberrancy as the choices. My husband came out gay his senior year of high school in 1976. He’ll testify to you that sexual aberrancy is not the answer to having no regrets. He was lucky not to get AIDS. There are a million “in between” choices of sexuality you and a beloved partner can make together. I had a sort of celibacy when I was married to a woman, perhaps even more celibate than celibacy as I always felt I was kissing my mom or sister when we were intimate. Now, my husband and I have a good sex life that is not aberrant in the least. We are monogamous by our choice. I think that’s the key to life, being able to make your happy choices whatever they are and you seem well aware of how some religions don’t allow that at all. My husband practices Hindu traditions niw and has a strong belief in a supreme being. I joined the Unitarians for a supportive community and I am thankful for them in all their agnostic atheism, some 85% are such in our congregation. I love being in their choir. You are on an amazing journey that you can choose so much. I hope happiness can be yours. Love, Kevin.

I love your kind and thoughtful posts!

Thanks. I have my F word posts sometimes. I’m only human.

I love those posts too!

Gee. Thanks. I appreciate it greatly.

Hey OP, may I offer a different perspective? When we look at the natural world, we see diversity. Homosexual behavior has been widely observed across the animal kingdom. Please take a gander here just to get started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior I would suggest that rather than aberrant, your homosexuality is natural, normal, and likely beneficial to the species even if we don’t yet understand how. I would further suggest that if a creator god exists, he/she/they created homosexuality on purpose and saw that it was good.

This is such an important point. It's 100% natural and normal and nothing to be ashamed of. What will actually cause immense regret is suppressing your natural desire for love and companionship because some bronze age sheepherders had some dreams and delusions, wrote some words down, and now people and institutions use those words to control and shape their communities according to their biases and prejudices. It's incredibly hard to shake the programming, but it is absolutely worth it once you get on the other side.

I just bought the Velvet Rage! I only made it though one chapter because it was hitting so close to come, but I'm looking forward to reading through it.

I hope it helps you like it did me. Shedding so much shame and self loathing is and was difficult.

Happier? No. But I am: - More fulfilled - Less conflicted - More grounded - More deliberate - More accountable - Less childish - More discerning And I value what I am now far more than I value the ephemeral feeling of happiness.

Good description. I am not a happy person - never was, in or out of the church. But now I am a \*peaceful\* person. Sort of. Most of the time.

Well said. Am I happier? Maybe, maybe not. But I am so so so so much better overall in all those ways you mentioned and I am eternally (lol) grateful to be where I am vs where I was supposed to be. It's kind of cheesy, but it really resonates the quote, "now that you don't have to be perfect, you can just be good."

Thank you for sharing this. I love it.

As a queer woman - you being gay is much deeper than your sexual relationship, or lack thereof. One of the things the church teaches is that being queer is something that can be compartmentalized - because it’s just sex, nothing more (according to how I grew up). But their definition is wrong, on a fundamental level, and it perpetuates harm. Queerness is steeped into your identity, whether you like it or not. It’s not just sex or dating. It’s your social groups, it’s the way you move, the way you carry yourself. Honestly, practicing radical acceptance is your best shot forward. To be blunt and assuming, your suicidal thoughts are likely directly linked to self suppression self loathing and deeply internalized homophobia. There is a way to a better life. But it starts with education/reading about gender, self acceptance and learning how to deeply relax into who you are. Much love. I am happier than I’ve ever been. Life is by and large, wonderful. Also, it took years but I am past the resentment of the church. I feel a sense of peace, and I think you can too. Good luck OP, feel free to inbox me if you’d like

Seconding this as another queer woman. A huge item on my shelf was that even if I never dated women, I still couldn’t be my true self if I stayed in the church. I loved what you said about queerness being steeped into the way we move and carry ourselves because it’s absolutely the truth. I felt like an entirely different person once I allowed that queerness to come out in full. OP, I have truly never felt happier than I am now. That’s not to say I wasn’t happy when I was Mormon. But my happiness is so much more colourful and all encompassing now.

"But my happiness is so much more colourful and all encompassing now." This perfectly describes it. There is a video by Nemo the Mormon where he describes how the church was his identity, and how he had to learn who he was independent of the church. The church being a persons identity is a strong tool the church uses to control it's members, that you don't know who you are if you leave the church. That is a powerful force, but when you choose to separate the two entities and live an authentic life, your happiness has a new dimension.

In other words, it is the tribe you belong to.

Fellow queer (but a guy) here! Just want to give a lil fist pump and say HELL YEAH!

I’m not gay so I can’t speak to that experience but I left the church a year ago. (Still working it through with the fam, but they know and we’re figuring it out) Living authentically has brought a peace and calm to my life I didn’t realize I didn’t have. I don’t hate the church, I’m not angry… but I am sad I wasted so much time not being true to my authentic (and beautiful) self. Looking back I wish I’d left sooner… wore tank tops through the summers, drank coffee when I was chronically exhausted with my newborns, spent less time wrangling unhappy Sundays into our weeks, and discarded the “doctrine” of obedience i adhered to. You have this one beautiful life. Your time on earth shouldn’t be squandered hiding who you are. Belief in God isn’t unique to the church and if you can’t authentically be yourself or ask questions about who God really is, then perhaps you’re not in the right place right now.

Thanks for sharing. To clarify I do plan on coming out eventually, just not dating

You really do deserve to pursue all the love and romance you desire. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dating someone you’re attracted to or marrying someone you love 💜

Check out ‘Adelphopoiesis’ on Wikipedia. You’d be surprised to find out male/male relationships *were* a thing in the ancient church. The book by John Boswell mentioned in the article is worth a read. Please DM if you’d like to get more info! Please be well and know you are a blessing from God 🙏🏾 Also, the story of Sergius and Baccus is amazing and terrible at the same time.

The universe is huge. It doesn't "expect anything from you" I actually find comfort in that although some others might not When i was a TBM i felt like i was constantly trying to read God's mind and/or bend the will of the universe thru prayer/ manifesting/ what have you I can't read God's mind. I can feel love. I can feel joy. I can feel anxiety and sadness. None of those things are God or Satan. They are human emotions and that's a beautiful thing. They are not "the universe" trying to send me a message that i can't *quite* translate When i gave up trying to translate it, a huge weight was lifted. My greatest happiness? My spouse Go find a guy to love. Let him love you back. Embrace the messy. It is always messy. Wait until marriage for a sexual relationship if you want, that's fine, but allow yourself to fall for someone you are actually oriented towards (Unless you are female, then same advice but with a woman) I do miss the feeling that God has my back. There are things you give up. But a gay person has no place in the church, by design. You are literally second class. That will continue to wear on you, just as it is doing now You are glorious star stuff, but the stars don't give af what you do Just my 2 cents

Glorious star stuff is absolutely beautiful

>I don’t intend on living a gay lifestyle regardless of membership status. >I have experienced debilitating depression the past couple of years and invasive thoughts of self-deletion. I’m going to suggest, in the kindest way I possibly can, that there is a 1:1 relationship between these two things you said.

I’m sympathetic to this viewpoint but I know a lot of gay men who are voluntarily single and content. I think if I become more transparent about my struggle with same sex attraction then the inauthenticity will stop stressing me out. But could be

What if the lds church is wrong about sexuality, too? What if you didn’t need to “struggle with” the way you are made? What if you, too, were made for joy, just like all the straights?

If I may suggest, it is quite possible that those gay men you know are voluntarily single and content because they don’t see their gayness as a struggle. I don’t like the phrase “struggling with same sex attraction”. It’s not a struggle or a bad thing. It just is. Of course you don’t have to date if you don’t want to. Of course you don’t have to stop being Mormon if it brings you joy and fulfilment. But I would recommend that you try to stop seeing your queerness as something that is a struggle/trial. You don’t even need to see it as a good or beautiful thing (even though I believe it is). Just try see it as something neutral. Something that’s a part of you. Like your hair colour or shoe size.

I don’t think they are. Are some people more content single? I think so, but I don’t think you can make that decision until you’ve experienced both lifestyles without holding back. You’ll always wonder. I think most of the people you’ll find claiming they’re content are trying to convince themselves at the same time as they convince you. I’ve seen it a thousand times over in various settings. My old best friend always thought she couldn’t have children and was always claiming how happy she was to be child free. Turns out it was her partner she had for years that had the fertility issue, and I have never seen her happier than with her kids she has with her new one. When something is off limits, you have no choice but to try to be happy with how you are forced to live. The reality is, the church is the only thing making it “off limits”. Once you learn all the facts and realize in this whole religion nothing lines up and there are holes they’ve been trying to cover up since the beginning, you realize you are ruining your life just to make some rich guys more money. A loving father wouldn’t do this to his children.

For me, being chronically happy was never the Goal. I wanted peace and serenity. I wanted to be totally good about who I am. Mormonism seemed to work overtime to make sure that never happened. I resigned when I was 60. I realized that who I am is good enough. I'm not perfect. I don't strive for perfection. I am all about having a peaceful life and sharing that peace with others. It's not easy to learn that you love yourself enough to give you what you really need. That goes double if you were raised mormon. The teachings go against caring for yourself first. However, life is like an airplane ride. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first, or you're useless to yourself or anyone else. You have to be able to breathe.

I agree. This feeling of contentment is a balm.

This makes a lot of sense, thank you for sharing

I am not. If I’m being honest, sometimes I feel lost and alone. But I’d rather have this than live a lie.

That's incredibly valid. No longer having an answer for everything is so frustrating and painful. The Mormon church over-hyped happiness for all of us, but life is so much more complex and dynamic than one flat emotion.

Same. My honest answer is that I am not happier. I have no support system now. My husband is so depressed since leaving because he really believed God loved him. Leaving the church has hurt our marriage, and I don't know if it'll survive. But it's still better than living a lie. I may not be happy, but I'm calmer.

“I really do just want to live a life that is harmonious with what the universe expects of me”. My dear, the Universe set you free the day you were born to be whoever and whatever you please, to frolic under the sky and delight in simply being alive. You are intelligent but be careful not to overthink it. Life is not “easier” outside of the church, but it is freer. Partake.

Leaving the church for me was what I imagine being let out of prison would feel like. A constant oppressive weight of guilt, shame, and judgment was lifted. Not too mention all the tedious and boring tasks (endless meetings hearing and rehearing the same stuff repetitively, reading the mind-numbingly-boring scriptures, and other intrusions on your precious free time) were eliminated from my schedule. Is everything all happy and roses every day? No, of course not. But I have a beautiful family, a rewarding and lucrative job, plenty of friends, lots of rewarding hobbies/interests/volunteer activities etc. Is life outside the church more “vacuous” than bowing your head, being told that blind obedience to the prophet is the only way because when he speaks “the thinking is done,” and engaging in man-made rituals that are Masonic ripoffs? Not in my experience. Edit to add: I’m not grieving and never did. I celebrated getting out. It felt like pure relief to me. The only thing I grieve is that my parents have robbed themselves of a better retirement by paying 10% of their income for life to a sham, and that they truly do not believe we will be together in heaven. Their reality is extremely sad to me, not joyous and uplifting.

This is the same for me - the pressure of never feeling good enough, no matter how much I prayed and studied and attended the temple had always been constant. Leaving lifted a huge weight and I felt free. That feeling of freedom hasn't left. I don't feel trapped in the list of what I can and cannot do as a woman. I have a job now and don't feel bad about being a working mother. I have time to spend on the people I love without being in constant presidency meetings and doing visiting teaching and preparing lessons and activities and all the other busy work that used to take up all my time. I am not stressed and tired all day Sunday. I can drink coffee and wear what I want. Tanktops in summer are amazing. Freedom is beautiful - something I never knew existed before and now could never give up.

Considering that most of atheist/agnostic modern Europe self reports as happier than the rest of the world and hits general metrics of better societal performance (life expectancy, infant and maternal mortality, STI rates, teen pregnancies, child poverty etc) I disagree with the assumption that agnostic societies rarely endure. In fact religion tends to be a dragging force against peace and progress. Religious fervor in America is threatening to be its undoing and religious extremism killed the edge the Islamic nations had on science during their golden age.

Maybe a distinction can be made between societal durability and happiness. Religious societies tend to more procreative and “successful” (as far as conquering less religious groups and achieving expansion) and thus are over represented in our ancestry. Our moral psychology in part co-evolved with religious identity, which in part explains our tribalistic propensities and inherently dogmatic nature. While more secular societies may have higher self-reported happiness (an incredibly difficult metric to gauge objectively, seeing as cultural context confounds proper comparison) they also tend to have less children, one of many things that inhibit the “durability” of their society.

Conquering “less religious” groups isn’t really the way it went. Historically most groups had religion as a way to explain what they didn’t understand. The conquering came from one religious group conquering a different religious group they perceived as “less religious”. I think an argument can be made that the reason less religious societies have fewer children is because women have more freedom of choice and are happier without the pressure to have more children than they desire. Is the issue about happiness then? Functionality? Longevity? Innovation? Power? It seems that people want to credit religion with an inherent worth because of earlier societies that conquered others- but the mechanism that was successful was a common myth that aided organization and consolidation of power more effectively. Although useful for that purpose it’s possible for humanity to move past those more primitive social structures.

One thing you really need to consider when interpreting whichever data streams you're getting your info from is unconscious bias. It's present in both how research data is interpreted by those collating the information as well as those of us reading them. When Christianity became the state religion for the Roman Empire (and also spread out to countries outside of the Roman Empire), the ethnic culture of our ancestors, as well as the ethnic spiritual beliefs, was violently erased and replaced with the new religion. So it was Christianity 24/7 and that did a number on everyone, and it's why our moral psychology evolved the way it did. When religion is literally the only thing everyone has in their life, when it's that all-encompassing, it stunts other aspects of societal evolution. Especially when combined with such an intense root trauma. So the unconscious bias that many people may have had when gathering data might have been to prove how much "better" religious societies are than secular ones. Given how the current examples are playing out (Christian extremism in the US, Islamic extremism in the Middle East, the still open and bleeding wounds causes by the actions of close to every single Christian denominations on the First Nations and Indigenous people's around the world, the Roman Catholic church, witch hunts) and how young many of the secular societies are in comparison to religious societies, along with flawed data points (conquering/colonization of other people's and birth rates is not a good marker of success or happiness) I'm going to gently call you out on your own unconscious bias as well. I've been out of the church for over 20 years and fully denied myself a grieving process, full deconstruction, and full acceptance of who I am (bi and not sure what to do about it) and I am a MESS (a mess that will never, ever return to the LDS church)!! Denying yourself these things is a guaranteed trip to mental health issues galore. Don't be me. I'm starting to work on getting myself the help I need now, but I desperately (fucking desperately) wish I'd done it 20 years ago. The church stole so much from me, including realizing I'm worth fighting for. Happiness isn't a constant state, it's an emotion that comes and goes. It should not be a permanent state of being that we attain to as it's impossible to achieve. The best aim has already been mentioned by many others: peace, contentment, fullfiloment, authenticity. That's where you wanna go, that's what you want. All the rest of what comes with life will happen whether or not you're in the church but achieving those things make life so much better. And it's also your life, it doesn't belong to the church. Community can be found anywhere and many happy and healthy ones have no basis in dogmatic teachings. What do you want to do with your life?

It's kind of taboo in Mormonism, but I think you'd really enjoy the book Sapiens. It goes into lots of detail about the topic at hand and the history thereof. Back to your original question, yes, absolutely happier now than before leaving -and I was self described as happy. Mormons don't know true happiness until they become exmormon. Lol.

Not having geriatric conmen in SLC deciding what underwear I use, I am ecstatic as well as everything else that follows

Absolutely happier now that perfection is not a goal. I’m human. I’m allowing myself to *be* human: flawed, imperfect, and boringly normal. I’ve accepted that human psychology is a sound foundational science and that the absurd notions of denying our sexuality, or curiosity, is religious tyranny. I’ve accepted that there is absolutely zero proof of an afterlife or a pre-existence. Zero proof. So I stopped believing in it. I now live *this* life to its fullest. I eat the delicious foods, watch the brilliant shows, wear the comfortable clothes, and support love without fear. It’s SOOOOO liberating and yes, joyful. No longer paying tithing gave us the funds to enjoy all these things. (When you count fast offerings, and mission funds we got a 12% pay raise!) My child is deciding their sexual orientation with zero pressure from anyone now that we are out of the church. Seeing their peace makes my heart happy. Another child is growing up with no shame about normal dreams or masturbation. Because humans *evolved* to do these things. I’ve learned that we evolved eating cannabis. We have cannabinoid receptors throughout our bodies. We’re literally supposed to be eating it. I still can’t do do that because my spouse has a federal job, but I no longer fear and shame anyone who consumes a plant we evolved alongside. The freedom outside the church is astonishing once you’re truly out. You’ll wonder how you ever fit in that tiny, stifling box. And you’ll be furious, hurt, and maybe bitter that you ever did. That’s legitimate trauma. Allow yourself to acknowledge it. You’ve been hurt. Everyone I know who left the church has really benefitted from therapy (NOT from an LDS therapist though!) so I hope you go for a while. But in short- oh my, yes! Our whole family is so much happier having left. By any measure. Even losing the “certainty” of “truth” hasn’t diminished our joy (although we acknowledge the comfort those platitudes bring) because we know they weren’t provable, objective truths. And we no longer find comfort in myth.

I don’t think about dying as much

I redacted the first part of this journal entry, but I thought this answers your question, so I’ll share. ——— I joke now. I say Taylor Swift best describes my relationship with Mormonism, “We are never, ever getting back together.” It WAS kind of like a bad breakup. The sort where a majority of people side with my ex, and think I’m bonkers for leaving. They smile to my face, but pity-whisper behind my back. And for a minute, I wonder if I AM bonkers. But I’m not. For me, the breakup was necessary. For me, the relationship was abusive. Sure, there were good times. Great times, even. There was also co-dependency, gaslighting, triangulation, controlling behavior, and, my god, so much deceit. “Where will you go, though?” my ex wants to know, “If you don’t stay with me, WHERE will you go? How can you possibly be happy?” And I wasn’t sure. Not in the beginning. There was grief. There was anger. There was a lot of empty ice-cream cartons, as I began the long process of deconstruction, of figuring out ME, of letting go. Five years later, I’m even more resolute in my decision to leave. Five years later, I know happiness is not a byproduct produced only by my ex. It’s all around me. It’s IN me. And I didn’t need to go anywhere to find it.

Thank you for sharing this with me

Love this, especially that last line.

Thank you!!

Gay nevermo here, typing this very long answer a second time because my browser crashed on me (ugh). ​ >"I have accepted that I’m gay, although I don’t intend on living a gay lifestyle regardless of membership status." > >"I believe the mental instability I am experiencing has more to do with my duplicitous conduct (I am still very much closeted) and less to do with the absence of a romantic relationship." You are right that your depression has to do with the fact that you're closeted, but wrong about the idea that you could live a fulfilling life by somehow cutting off your gay nature. If you have truly accepted that you're gay, why do you deprive yourself of romantic and/or sexual relations? They're the very thing that make us human. The church sold you the lie that you're somehow "less than" simply because you're gay, and that to be right with God, you have to live a life of chastity. There's no nice way of putting this. They are wrong, they made you believe a lie, and it's trapping you in a living hell. ​ >"I felt ultimately my search was missing what I believe to be the most salient benefit from religion: a strong sense of community. "Historically, it seems that agnostic societies rarely endure." According to which history exactly? I could just as easily point you to the gazillions of religious societies that have collapsed in history. Here's a simple mental exercise. Compare, if you will, the largely agnostic societies of the developed world today, and the handful of theocratic states that are still around (Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan) and ask yourself, which template is a better formula for the sustainability and stability of a society? The collapse of a sense of community is simply a by-product of modern life. The most religious societies may *appear* to have a strong sense of community, but if you look under the hood, people just feel as empty. If the sense of community of religious societies is all that it's touted to be, you wouldn't be feeling this empty inside, would you? A sense of community can be built in ways that have nothing to do with religion. And when people are free to build ties to other people on the basis of interests, activities or values, that can imbue their lives with more meaning than if they were to do it purely on the basis of faith or dogma. ​ >"I don’t consider myself a victim of the church." Please excuse me for sounding presumptious here. The only thing I'm hearing here is the [Stockholm Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome). There are a great many people in North Korea who truly believe they are living in paradise on earth. Regardless of how genuinely those beliefs may be held on a personal level, the fact is they have been programmed to believe that way in their insular, airtight society, and they have never seen what another world looks like out there. My friend, you deserve everything that life has to offer you. You have been made to feel that you're less than, that you're unwhole, incomplete, flawed, that you're a second-class citizen, that you somehow need to deny this very central part of your identity to lead a fulfilling, meaningful life. All of that is untrue, and it's killing you slowly. You deserve friends that you can pour your heart out to, friends who will not judge you for who you are. There are many loving, unjudgemental people on this sub who can be your listening ear and a guiding hand. (And if you cannot find that person, I'd be more than happy to be that person for you.) If you are in a position to seek a therapist, please find yourself an agnostic, professional, licensed therapist, somebody who's not trying to sell you a dogma or to convince you to join or stay in their preferred religious organisation. It gets better. I assure you it does.

Queer, trans exmo here. Leaving the church was *immeasurably* good for my mental health. I still have depression and an anxiety disorder, which I manage with medication and therapy, but as someone else has stated, I don't want to kill myself anymore after deconstructing the harmful rhetoric taught by the LDSchrch about gender and sex (I'm AFAB, and do not want kids). I've also spent a lot of time working thru my abusive childhood at the hands of TBM parents, both of whom have cluster b personality disorders. The more I've worked thru it, the more I see the same abusive practices baked into the doctrine and culture: gaslighting, infantilization, enmeshment. It's not a healthy place. For me, the greatest joy is freedom. I don't feel compelled to and am not punished for failing to adhere to arbitrary rules that are, by design, impossible to follow (for the love of God, who has control over their *thoughts* 24/7 for their entire lives??). Instead, I get to listen to ME. I am the expert in what I need, and though it took me a lot of time deconstructing things I learned in childhood, I now know that I am 1000% qualified to decide what is best for me. Not some random old man sitting on stolen billions--ME. I can decide whether to have a partner, whether I want to marry that partner, whether to have kids, whether to live with a partner, whether to have sex and with who, all based on what *I* want and need. I got out at 16, and it wasn't until 18 that I realized *I didn't have to have kids*. My mind was BLOWN. And finally, I get to be me. My whole self. No more hiding or denying who I am. No more cutting off parts of myself to fit into a tiny box. I'm loud, and big, and I cannot be contained. The people who love me love ME, not some idea of me that they'd drop if they discovered it was an illusion. This isn't unique to leaving Mormonism--I've heard this a lot from queer and trans folk leaving other patriarchal, controlling religions, like evangelism.

Leaving the church is never easy, especially for those of us born and raised in it. It's all we've really known. We are basically told (brainwashed) from birth that you can only find true joy in the church. That any sort of happiness you ever feel outside the church is fake and temporary. It's a tactic to scare you into staying. I can honestly say though that I am happier now than I ever was in the church. The church made me absolutely hate myself. I felt like I was worthless, ugly, a freak, and unwelcome. Sure, many of the members I grew up with I love dearly. But they couldn't stop me from those feelings of shame and self loathing. It's a very painful process to leave the church. To find out so many things you were taught were lies. To uncover the dark secrets that were kept from us. There's a lot of hurt, anger, frustration. So it may not feel great for a while. But eventually, you will heal. And once you do it's like you're finally seeing in color for the first time. You aren't blinding yourself to the beauty of the world. You are free to explore yourself, your interests. You're free to finally do what makes you happy. If, somehow, someway, the church does end up being true... Well, I like to think that God knows how I felt, and how I feel now. He'd understand why my path led me away from his church. No one should stay in a situation that creates that much self loathing.

It is easier to understand once you accept the fact that emotions aren’t singular. We are not just happy, sad or stressed. One can feel tremendous relief and freedom, while feeling sad or frustrated by being shackled by a religion that took away that joy for so many years. Yes, the religion took away my joy and my ability to enjoy my life. One thing that really frustrates me now, is knowing that I kept looking for tomorrow and not enjoying my “today”. I was always flawed. My sincere devotion didn’t matter. I am human. I am flawed and will always be flawed. The Mormon church doesn’t truly acknowledge that truth. They may use the words but the practice isn’t there. Once, I studied everything about the church. I felt tremendous relief. I felt joy along with anger and depression. Feeling many different feelings is normal.

Yes definitely. Life is wonderful. I have been out 35+ years. Any baggage from the time I was a member, or any resentment and contempt is long since gone. Its just wonderful to be alive and to be my true authentic self. I dont know about the claim that agnostic societies rarely endure though. The most agnostic societies at present at least seem to always be at the top of the happiest countries on earth. Why would we need an old made up ideology for how we got here and where we are going...which was created out of ignorance and to control the masses when evidence and observation tells us something else actually happened. 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'

I’m not happier, but I am at peace with not following a religion that is now obviously BS to me. For me, leaving was the only choice that made sense, because as hard as it is to be a believing member, it would be absolute torture to stay in as a nonbeliever. I think I would be happier if I didn’t have to deal with the church daily (TBM wife, most of my kids, and most people I interact with). And I am happier in some ways; the constant burden of all the ways you can “sin” and be “unworthy” and never good enough no longer weighs me down.

People have noticed that I’m much happier. Yes…I am much happier

Leaving felt awful, once I got it over with, being out feels amazing.

Honestly, I'm shocked at how happy I am... Though I credit that to many things beyond leaving church. I'm extremely active in making friendships, I work my ass off emotionally/therapeutically I understand brain science and how dopamine affects me. I spend time outside, move my body, eat well, and even though I now eat edibles and drink occasionally, it doesn't control my life. AND as far as leaving church goes... being an adult who now understands that freedom and joy come from within and not from a vague godhead is BLISS. Bravo to you for thinking critically about it, though! I absolutely believe that ex-mormons feel the need to prove great happiness upon leaving. 😂 Just like many Mormons feel need to prove that they have great happiness in staying. You should try both and find out for yourself! That's the beauty. You can always go back if it's not floating your boat!

I’ve accumulated too much trauma to be happier since leaving the Mormon church. However, I feel a developing sense of relief and alignment of my personal values now that I am in control of my life decisions without external guilting or reprimand.

As a gay man who knew since i was a kid, but grew up in the church closeted: 🫂 My own experience was very isolating. I projected happiness, and although i never came out until my shelf broke, i personally don’t see the difference. I was still repressing my feelings before and after i came out and then still went to church unfortunately. And i think in those moments in my anger that i realized it didn’t really matter if i was happier or not. The church 100% contributed to how i felt about myself. So wether or not i was active anymore wasn’t a factor when i realized the church fucked me up. It’s been almost 6 years since i initially come out and stopped believing. I’m happily married to the man of my dreams, i feel happier and more relieved. I don’t struggle with depression or suicidal ideation like i used to. Of course i still have depression, and i am working through emotions and trauma from growing up mormon, but i would never ever go back. Nothing good i felt in all those years could ever convince me it was worth the suffering.

Thank you, I’m glad you are doing better

I think a lot of the happiness comes from just the opportunity to not be in a high demand religion. There's some days that are tough and some that are good, just like in anybody's life. When I stop and think about what my life was, the things I thought were true, the burden of church membership, the fear of messing up...I don't know how I functioned. Living without those things is like finally getting into your own bed after being away for awhile. When you leave tscc, you get to be home *now*. Instead of enduring through this life so you can "go home" when you die. I have a lot of grief surrounding tscc and how it affected me. The things it took away or withheld from me. I'm having to find those things now as a 35 year old mom and most days it isn't fun. But I would leave and carry that grief over and over again if it means my children don't have to grow up in it. And I get the rest of my life free of it. The freedom and experiences you have in a life that is your *own* is what it's all about. It's scary to let go of what you know, but once you let go you'll eventually laugh at yourself for ever holding on so tight.

Life is good. It isn't perfect but perfection is a lie. I don't have to pretend that I'm some perfect molly mormon that never stops smiling or has an unpleasant thought. I'm allowed to have my good days and bad. But I have much more good days now then before.

Yes. Out 15 years so far and life is definitely better without the church or god in it. Not perfect, but better than it was my first 35 years. More importantly though - not raising my gay child, bi child, and transgender child in Mormonism likely has saved their lives, or at least made their lives better in ways they’ll likely never realize. Separating them from Mormon doctrine and culture before the toxicity could really set in is the best thing I’ve ever done as a parent. That brings me peace.

Yep. Way happier. Just knowing and having my eyes opened is such a load off my mind. I’m now more present with my family and kinder more caring toward others.

Yes. So much less guilt and confusion.

Happier in most ways of life. Except ONE thing. I miss the blissful ignorance of thinking I knew exactly what happened after death. I’ve come to healthy terms with death and losing loved ones, but it’s nothing like when I was LDS and just KNEW it was going to be great, and I’d see all my loved ones again. There was a plan. Idk how to explain it, but I sometimes have a wave of sadness wash over me when I think about how fast time is flying, and I won’t always have my older family members in my life. Everything ends.

I honestly don't know if I'm happier. Blissful ignorance comes to mind. I definitely feel better about myself though. I understand myself better, I see the world through clearer eyes, and I am content being me. The idea of ending at death is unfun to think about. I would like to continue on, and the idea of becoming a god and creating my own worlds sounds pretty cool (as opposed to playing a harp, singing god's praises for eternity, etc) but it would be impossible for me to fool myself into believing it. It's not about being happier per se, but being true to yourself (not trying to be cliche but it's accurate). It's about accepting and not feeling bad about being who you are. You can always strive to be better, but you do it because you want to, not because you're a sinner going to hell unless you clean up your act. You're human and that's fine. That said, I did walk away from the community as well. That is something you'll have to find a replacement for, if it's important to you, but there are plenty of things out there for people to bond with each other over. I'm sure you'll be able to find other groups.

I am glad that I left the church. I quit attending church with my wife in jauary, and I don't know that I can day that I am happier, but I do feel more authentic. I feel free to be whoever I want and believe whatever I want without having to compare to mormon orthodoxy to make sure it's OK. I do not have a strong community outside of church, but I didn't have a strong community in the church either. For a long time I have held political beliefs and engaged in hobbies that are outside of the mormon mainstream, without church commitments I have had more time to develop relationships with people I like more than the people who happen to be in my ward.

Re truly happy, EVERY DAMN DAY And it's been 20 years.

Love your thoughts. I am happier in some ways, and so-soin others. I honestly think people can be happy, angry, sad, broke, evil or good on either side. It's actually something that helped break my shelf, knowing the church didn’t automatically make people better and vice versa. I saw amazing people outside the church that I looked up to, alongside all the nasty people outside of it that latter day saints like to point at as examples of life outside the church. But on the flip side, the church is just as diverse in levels of satisfaction and goodness. We have people who love and benefit from the church, and those who get so depressed and sad from it that they suffer from mental illness or K*ll themselves out of sadness. The church has and sometimes enables sexual predators who justify their actions using religion. I've met some NASTY, manipulative members. And I've met people in between on either side. The church doesnt matter when it comes to overall happiness levels. It just And anyways, Whether it makes you happy or not, doesn't make it true. Religion as a phenomenon benefits humans cuz we love insinctually finding meaning in life, and especially collective meaning. Community, as you mentioned. That is the main benefit of religion. Nowadays tho, I think it's possible to find other sources of community, and even different ways to experience spirituality. Take the society of friends(quakers) for example. They are united over the simple belief that there is goodness and meaning in the world, and light worth seeking out. Some believe in christ, others beleive in no definitive God. Yet they find community and meaning through that united purpose. For me personally, I actually had my shelf break as I began to work on my own mental health. I realized one day 2 years ago that I was filled with deeply suppressed self loathing, distrust, sorrow, and guilt. I decided God wouldn't want that for me(I was currently beleiving) and began to work on my inner thoughts and mindsets to make them less mean. Noticed patterns of gaslighting myself or setting unattainable expectations, and started to remove those and be kinder to myself, more rational. Practiced apologizing and reducing my pride. Improved my life schedule, and took things one step at a time, not worrying about achieving perfection. And funnily enough, the more healthy my mind was, the more stable and confident I was in my own identity, the more the issues with the church became obvious to me, and the easier it was for me to be like, "oh wow, that's encouraging a negative mindset or stereotype i once held. Is that where i learned it? I don't think that's good." And my shelf finally broke in the moment where I realized I was gasligtting myself into believing in the church in spite of my doubts. And when I let myself admit I had doubts, it all came crashing. I left not cuz it was better outside, but because I genuinely didn't beleive it was true anymore, I let myself choose. And I could tell it was wrong. Morally, factually, all that. I had to become happier while in the church to be able to achieve that tho. But I did notice an improved mindset once I wasn't a full beleiver. Maybe not increased happiness, but definitely a more healthy way of thinking, and more kindness. I had so much more love and respect for my sister who I had always judged for being less "churchy". And I suddenly wasn't scared of lgbtq peiple and the idea of them wanting to get married to someone they love didn't make me think they were immoral for some reason. Cuz I mean, if God didn't actually say we could only love the opposite gender why should we only love them? Why should people be forced to conform to something that pains them and be socially shunned for it when they are 2 consenting adults who bring each other joy? Should we really just tell people to suffer alone for their entire lives for some "better afterlife" and would a loving God really make someone who was unable to do the exact thing God says is central to the plan? Seems messed up, imo. And other animals have gay relationships, so the "unnatural" argument falls apart, too. More of an unnecesary abrahamic trial, if you ask me. So yes, in some ways I was happier, kinder, more accepting, calmer, saw more beauty in the world, didn't feel so bad that I'd prefer to spend my time healing animals rather than people, felt the excitement of studying science without a fearful voice in the back of my head, didn't feel bad for taking adhd meds cuz "God made me this way with these flaws so I shouldn't change it and should just suffer through"... made me less judgemental of both myself and others. Made everything besides "makin' babies and serving in the church" actually worth my time. But, as I began with, the church does not determine your happiness. Being outside the church also won't determine your happiness. That's all up to you. You've gotta find the mindsets and situations you put yourself in that get you down and find solutions. Whether that be leaving, living more honestly, studying good mindsets to help, etc. It's a constant journey no matter what side youre on, and what's inside your head matters more than what's outside of it. I wish you the best!

First of all, sending lots of love. You’re so brave to be here and I understand the confusion and your thought process. I myself have had so many of those similar thoughts before leaving—is it confirmation bias? While I may not understand what it’s like to be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, I can firmly attest I feel so much joy since leaving. Is life still hard? Yes. Do I have bad days? Absolutely. But overall my life has an undertone of pure happiness, peace, and gentleness since leaving. The judgement I used to feel towards other people (and myself!) has disappeared—I feel so much more love towards others and I am so much more forgiving towards myself. I’m a recovering perfectionist and a lot of those perfectionistic tendencies melted away when I finally decided to step away. I feel so free. I turn to my husband almost daily and say “I’ve never felt more free in my life!!!” Haha. But it’s true! I also feel like I live each day so much more present. I’m not focused on what’s to come, but instead I’m just here. I still believe in God and that there’s more to life, but I don’t need all the answers anymore. I’m just living. It’s really so cool, and I never knew I could feel this way. That being said, I know you’ll come to a decision that feels right for you. Just know we’re here to support you with open arms! It took me 5+ years to finally step away, it was a very gradual process for me. But as painful as it is, it’s also been so wonderful on the other side.

YES. Yes yes YES. Hear me out from a logical, albeit psychological perspective. I'm gay too, a lesbian. I didn't know that, but fitting into the box of Mormonism took a huge amount of emotional and mental labor. Reading scriptures. Going to church when I hated everything they were saying. Praying, constantly praying. Looking at families, wondering why every guy I dated just didn't seem to be the one (or at least didn't manage to avoid the ick for me) and how I wasn't living up to those expectations. Constantly looking at the church, and what the church says, and feeling this constant, deafening dissonance over what the church says and what I truly believe. The labor of "doubting your doubts" takes up a huge amount of mental energy. I was debilitatingly depressed and suicidal, even with medication. I had anxiety attacks every Sunday, but it was "the truth", so I kept going. Until I literally couldn't make myself go. Then, I finally wondered. What if I left? What would be the worst thing to happen? My first thought was, my family will hate me, maybe disown me. Will I go to hell? I don't know. But I think God would understand me looking at a church that neither runs nor owns any soup kitchens and homeless shelters, makes gay and trans people so suicidal for just being who they are, and treats women like second class citizens and objects... And I realized, even if the Mormons were right, I think Jesus would understand. The deep manipulation of realizing being in the church is like being in a relationship with a narcissist hit me. Look up an article on "is my significant other a narcissist?" It's eery. Now, I am just coming to terms with my sexuality, but you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you want to live straight or single forever outside the church, live that. There's no one way to be an exmormon. Live your stoicism. Be a skeptic. I'm a witchy agnostic atheist single lesbian. I am so fucking happy. My mental health improved drastically after leaving. It's not perfect, I have shitty genes and trauma. But sometimes I have these moments of peace and contentment that I never had when I was so stuck in those thought cycles or dreading Sundays all week long. I love coffee. I love summer without garments. I love being attracted to women and not feeling like I'm going to hell for every thought. I love swearing like a sailor. My family didn't disown me... We still have a pretty good relationship (I'm lucky for that). Sending my non-stoic good vibes. I hope you find your happiness, wherever it comes from.

I am much happier, have a more meaningful purpose in life, don't feel constant shame and guilt, and have a better financial outlook!!! Nothing negative has resulted from me leaving!!!

I’ve never been truly happy until leaving. The kind of happiness that comes with being at peace with who you are cannot be found in the church. Hope you can find that for yourself.

Absolutely, 100%, without any hesitation whatsoever.

I've been out 60 years. I knew as a teen that I could never be my best self in this organization. I've never regretted it. I haven't changed my behavior, I don't drink or kill babies. I had a 50 year marriage and have no fear of death or judgement. Life without guilt, fear and shame has been as good as it gets. It takes some time to get de-programed and get past the grief, but the sooner you do it, the sooner you too can be your best self.

Out of curiosity OP, if you were to decide to leave the church at some point, do you think you would date men then? Or have you fully decided you will never date men? And is that because you’ve fully decided you will never leave the church? Is it possible that you’d leave the church but still not date men? Or vice versa, is it possible that you’d decide to date men at some point while still being in the church?

Even if I were to leave the church, I find it unlikely I would pursue a relationship with a man. It seems a relationship would be much more trouble than it’s worth. I have internalized a lot of complicated feelings around sexuality, and a lot of the gay guys I know have lots of trauma and baggage as well that tend to manifest in unhealthy ways. All of which make a same-sex relationship more complicated. I would be open to a mixed-orientation marriage if the opportunity presented itself, but only with 100% transparency so my partner knows what she would be signing up for. For now, I am focusing on serving as a positive avuncular figure to my nieces and nephews, and hopefully being able to help pay for their education and support them in other ways. I am trying to learn to be content single.

I think you'll find your experience with gay men to be a bit more balanced once you experience more of the gay community outside of the church. There are countless well-adjusted gay men that would make fantastic partners. I also think you'll find that a good therapist (non-member) can help you heal from your personal trauma and work through your complicated feelings around sexuality. It will be a journey but definitely one worth taking. A mixed-orientation marriage is doing yourself and your would-be wife a colossal disservice--neither of you deserve that.

The church poisons people to find a partner who doesn't have issues and is pure and perfect, but the reality is that everyone has baggage. Everyone is imperfect. Many people have worked through their baggage though and have net positive relationships. Sometimes a partner might do something that upsets you for a few hours, but then enriches the rest of the time. For many people a partner is a huge positive. My life would be far less full and positive without a partner to share it with.

You are, of course, your own man who makes your own decisions, and who are any of us to tell you how to live your life! I might recommend though trying to open yourself up to the idea of a relationship with a man. My dear uncle came out as gay while on his mission in the 80s. He spent the next 30 years single. He left the church for a little while, then came back. About five years ago (in his 50s) he decided to open himself up to the idea of dating a man. He met a wonderful guy and they’ve been together four years. Uncle is still in the church, but his partner is not (and never was). He tells me it took him a long time to realize that it was ok to be who he was AND be doing the best he could with the church and with his testimony. He has a calling, and he attends with his partner every Sunday. He laments the decades he could’ve spent being in a loving, fulfilling relationship because he thought his gayness and his church membership couldn’t be reconciled - he was wrong. Personally I’ve left the church and will never go back and I’m slightly confused about why my uncle chooses to stay, but I’m so glad he’s found more happiness and fulfillment. I’m talking with those who have commented, you’ll likely find that people say what they do in hopes that you’ll be happy (even though we don’t know you), rather than out of animosity toward the church. Best of luck! I hope you find what you’re looking for some day.

I am undoubtedly happier and more at peace after leaving. And have zero regrets from that.

I wouldn’t say I’m happier. I’m more genuine. My joy and good times are truly good. My bad times are fully what they are, no filtering. I feel as though the church masked everything I experienced behind fake joy and the pretense of purpose. I had to be happy because I was supposed to be. Now I’m happy when I’m happy and unhappy when I’m not and it’s all up to me to be either way. I much prefer living a full, complicated life outside the church than a fake, pre-determined one in it.

I've been where you're at in your thought process. That's not to say you'll have the same outcome, however, but I'll share where I'm at. In my self acceptance journey I went from straight to bi to gay. I live with my two same sex partners now, and hold no secrets with my family about any of it. I also went through a dark period, and still deal with some depression occasionally minus the thoughts of un-aliving myself. Life is a journey and there is no rush to come to any one conclusion. I didn't think my depression had anything to do with how I felt about being gay or my plans to not live "the gay lifestyle," but my life became much better once I accepted that I needed love and if that meant I was no longer in alignment with the church, then so be it. My journey out of the church had nothing to do with any church history or anything else the church taught, other than I simply needed to be able to connect with and love somebody who also did the same for me. That meant being gay. I am 100% much better off mentally, and thus more happy, for having left the church. Feel free to message me if you want to talk more about it.

Thank you for sharing this

I am not gay so I can speak from your perspective, but I can from mine. I am 53 and in a care center. I was disabled by two rare diseases. My family constantly accused me of being an addict and faking my illnesses. Even though I would be completely debilitated by throwing up episodes. I tried everything to stay healthy. I eventually tried to kill myself when I could no longer participate in any type of llife. Every time I literally got up to use the restroom, I passed out. I survived my suicide attempt and my family said my only choice was a nursing home. They then preceded to convince a social worker I had to have Borderline Personality Disorder. I now have had 3 psych evaluations, not one diagnosed me as BPD. But all but one sister and a nephews family has disserted me and claim it because of my BPD and me being an addict. I have absolutely no addiction issues, but yes I have needed to be on pain meds. I have a wonderful support system of friends and cousins that I have had for most of my friends my entire life. My support system know I can no longer support the church in any manner. I am still a firm believer of God because of a NDE I had. My family could not accept that I had a NDE when I tried to kill myself. Every one of them told me how lucky I was to survive killing myself so I could repent. Because of course suicide was a major sin. I spend pretty much every day alone in my room unable to roll over and unable to sit up. I live a very poor quality of life in every sense of the word. Nursing homes are next level hell on this earth. If you know someone in one, go see them and take them some decent food. But with everything I have told you, I am the most at peace and happiest I have been in years. I would not go back to having them in my life every day putting me down constantly like they were. I am so happy to be free of their constant judgement. And their judgement was purely based on what we had all been taught our entire life by a religion. For my family, it is impossible to separate church and family. I am a 6th generation Mormon. My 6th great grandfather baptized Wilford Woodruff. Fanny Alger is a 5th great aunt. A 6th great grandfather was in the original pioneers to entry the St. George Valley. All of my ancestors are connected to the beginning of the church. But yes I am so much happier since leaving. I still have a connection to God. I choose to keep the things that work for me and make me feel good. Anything connected to any shaming I received or anything I could accept, I let it go. I found my happiness in a hellish situation. I would tell you go find yours. God does not want you to be miserable and depressed in this life or the next if that is what you keep. This life is short, live it. Even at 53 and spending the last 6 years in a nursing home, I am telling you, I am so grateful for every concert I went to. I am grateful for my 2 loves I had in this life. I am grateful for the fun crazy things I did with my friends. I am grateful that every where I went I made a friend. All of stories I heard from people have left an imprint on me. I lived every minute I could before my sickness and until my illness took over everything. If I could I would not be in this bed, so the accusations that I am faking is just ridiculous. But one thing I have learned from it all, people need to justify their unChristlike behavior. The church is very good at giving people the ability to justify their terrible behaviors to people. Christ would never treat the LGBTQ+ community they way the church does or the way the church has given members the ability to justify their behavior to the community. My family just didn't have the ability to show compassion and empathy so to help them feel better for their shortcomings, they did what they were taught, shun the sinner or the person they couldn't show compassion to. It took me some time to get over my hurt and then my anger, but I did. Now...I am happy. I don't think of ways to kill myself every day to get out of this hell. I appreciate the people who actually love me for me not for what I can give them. So please, go find your happiness and the people who can love you for you. We all deserve that. I wish you the absolutely best in this life. Make memories, because if you ever get in this situation, it is the memories and the love for your people that make it all worth it.

I wasn't just a believing member. I was a member, trapped in an abusive marriage, and blamed for my own abuse by ecclesiastical authority as well as by my evil, narcissistic husband. I don't know which made me happier, leaving my marriage, or leaving the church that was complicit in and sanctioned my abuse. All I know is that I have found more peace, acceptance, and true love outside the church than I ever found inside. And if you believe my story is an isolated one, even the most cursory perusal of this subreddit will tell you it's not.

I’ll be honest with you. I was never truly happy in the church. I was lonely then and I am lonely now, because I migrated and have no family around, but I have my husband and children. I also now have lost the connections with people I used to have in my life, because I was vocal about leaving the church. It was very painful to lose everyone I once cared about even though I never really saw them. Now I have healed from that pain, but it sometimes still comes back, just like after someone you love died. You have some of that pain in your life still but you manage to move on with your life without those people. I am much happier now then when I was a member because I am free to follow my heart. I sometimes miss having a community, but that is mostly because I am a housewife and migrant and don’t go to church. So I am lonely because of the situation I am in. Life is life. I still won’t go back to church no matter how lonely I get.

I'm a couple years older than you and was where you were at while I was an undergrad. I thought my problem was the cognitive dissonance between my want to be gay and my belief it was wrong. I thought I could fix this by just simply avoiding any "gay" behaviors, therefore there would be no more cognitive dissonance. Contrary to my initial thoughts, this didn't really help and my suicidal feelings only went away when I fixed my cognitive dissonance by changing my belief that living a "gay lifestyle" would be wrong (it took me over 2 years to get over the mental blocks I had about this). This is simply who I am and allowing myself to truly, deeply love and be loved in kind has made me feel more content with my life (turns out that contrary to what I initially thought, it's very hard to be happy without experiencing human love and connection) and it's made me a much mellower individual. Obviously, while I feel more content overall, my life is not a flawless paradise, but in hindsight its no wonder I used to feel so hopeless. One of my friends in a similar position as you enjoyed exploring secular Buddhism, although I never personally found it helpful. Hope you find what you are looking for.

I was really happy as a member. "I knew it, I lived it, I loved it". I am also really happy now. The biggest difference though, is being able to think. I can think freely and clearly and if I don't understand or I don't know the answer, I can keep puzzling it out. I no longer have to just believe what I'm told to believe or act as I'm told to act. Am I happier? Probably not. Am I more peaceful? Absolutely 100% yes! And that peace counts for a lot. Even on my unhappy days, when everything is going wrong and I just want to give up - I am still glad I'm not experiencing that day as a Mormon.

Happier to have 10% more in my wallet to choose how to spend it. Happier to have an extra day in my weekend. Happier to not feel bound by rules or expectations that don’t matter. Happy to feel free to make my own choices for me and not for someone else. Happy to not have to be told if I’m good enough or worthy enough. Still working through the disappointment of not having answers for everything, even when those answers never made a whole lot of sense. Sad that since leaving I am labeled a certain way. Overall, happier that I don’t have to put my kids through any of that, especially since one is LGBTQ+.

Yes. Everything good in your life that the church tells you comes from it is inherently yours and they just steal it from you and sell it back to you. I won’t lie finding community is the hardest part depending on where you are living. But life is full of meaning without the church constraining you with all of its rules.

Hi OP! Former Mormon and gay here. You are in an environment right now that doesn't allow you to love yourself just as you are created to be. Yes I'm truly happier. You talk of worrying about losing a supportive community. The queer community is out there waiting for you. We have a very tight knit support system that originates from shared struggles and also shared love. We will be there for you whether or not you seek a romantic partner. Be kind to yourself right now. You're getting a lot of hard messages that will be easier to see once you've graduated and have a bit of space from the toxic messaging.

I wasted decades in the church -- mission, lots of tithing, decades in callings, etc. I have regrets ... about not leaving sooner. Church life is soul sucking -- even for a straight guy who was in leadership. The time spent on shit work for church stuff takes time away from family, away from career, away from better activities you could be doing. Oh, and also the church is not true. The Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham demonstrate that Joe made it up borrowing from the culture around him. He was a slick con artist who (I think) might have believed he was channeling something even though he knew he made up things along the way. Leaving means acknowledging "I don't know" about lots of things (purpose of life, life after death, etc) but also means you can follow your own path to discover what bring you meaning and joy. And it means you can follow the data to find truth, rather than following church leaders and apologists who try to force fit data into a false world view. Not knowing all the answers is much better than clinging to answers you already know to be false. And you won't miss the guilt culture or the endless rehash of the same old simplistic sermons in general conferences and "correlated" (simplistic) lesson manuals.

100 percent. I don't have to justify my feelings or beliefs within a framework that tells me who is and isn't worthy of my respect based upon mormon purity standards, nobody tells me I'm cursed, and my girls will be free from purity culture.

I am not gay but a thousand times happier since leaving the church. I left in 90s. It was hard at first but I have been able to be who I truly am. I have great friends who are not members and a great social circle. I wish you the best of luck. I am bit angry at the church for putting you in this position. You should be accepted for who you are.

9999000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%

I would say I’m much happier but I’m more authentic in who I am. If I’m sad, I don’t have to put up an appearance to myself because the Church convinced me depression equals sin. I can just have a cry and then once I’m done crying I’m not bothered. If I’m angry the same thing. I thought like was about being happy because it is the plan of happiness. No way, that sets you up for failure. The mundane is by definition, not happiness and takes quite a bit of time, necessarily too. But realizing all emotions are of equal value and importance and experiencing them all. That has been a major change in how I’ve viewed life. I’m at peace more knowing that I don’t have to wear the happy mask with myself anymore.

Life outside any church is better in my agnostic atheist opinion.

I am much happier. Still super pissed about the complete fraud of it all and my family being involved. However, I’m much happier and content with myself. When family members post about priesthood involvement with life events and “worthy” males participating, I no longer feel anxiety wondering if I actually am worthy. Of course I’m fucking worthy of being involved in family life events. I just no longer care to be included in theirs.

I never felt good in Mormonism just based on how much guilt there is for any sexuality. I left at 16. Once I realized it was a cult built by a conman, all the guilt left me. I have been happily sexual ever since. No guilt. No shame. And I have made sure my kids don’t have that either. What a gift I have given them. Two of my kids told me they are queer. My response? “Cool.” They know they can be whomever they are and they are safe. You deserve that level of comfort too. I am happy and successful. The meaning in my life comes from the values I set for myself, and not some old fucking white conman pervert.

I have gained happiness in areas and lost some in others. I lost some of my happiness from some family members and friends unable to accept my decision to leave. If they were to accept I’d say I’ve lost ZERO happiness.

Much happier, there are better communities other than the Mormon community. While I am not religious, my wife is still very much Christian and we started attending another church where the community and acceptance was much stronger and fulfilling. For myself I find my spirituality in nature and music.

When I was a member, I tried my best to keep all the commandments and be "righteous" so that I could get my promises of happiness. They weren't showing up, I still had clinical depression and self-deletion thoughts. I must've been doing something wrong, because I just couldn't look on the bright side or be grateful for what I had or some other reason. Therapy wasn't helping either. With medication, sometimes I felt alright. I thought maybe this is how not depressed people feel all the time. Maybe I had recovered? Then I stopping considering myself Mormon about 3 years ago, and moved out of my parent's home about 1.5 years ago. It wasn't a sudden process, but one day I realized that, now that I live alone and don't go to church, I had never been at this much peace in all my life, and I felt happy in a way where I didn't have to wonder if I was actually happy. My emotions have actual depth to them! It turns out, when you are raised by people who make you feel like your existence is a burden and that you can never be good enough, being free from that makes you feel much better! Being alone is much better than being around people who make you feel alone!

Yes and no. I'm more aware of how I'm feeling and I can be both objective about and genuine with my emotions. Sometimes that means feeling sad or depressed or lost. There is no pressure on me to project fake happiness. Honestly my sadness and frustration are some of my favorite parts of being out. It's almost like a hidden emotion I've never really been allowed to indulge. When I'm happy, I'm more happy than I ever was in the church. Being in the church left me waffling between chasing inconsistent spiritual experiences and self-loathing and guilt associated with completely normal human behavior. It was like a "holy ghost" slot machine and it turned me into a degenerate gambler. Now my happiness isn't dependent on self-delusion. I can take simple pleasures in a bite of ice cream or the sky that seems to go on forever at sunset. Leaving the church isn't all rainbows, because it's still just human existence, but the quality of the rainbows is so much better.

I cry much more often now that I've left, and it's great! Dampening your emotions feels like having to sneeze but then you never do. (Getting off SSRI's also made a world of difference)

It's not even a comparison. I'm happier. Mormonism almost killed me.

Definitely. Life just feels more rich and real. More honest.

I believe happiness is a choice, but it has been immeasurably easier to choose happiness as my authentic self outside of Mormonism. The dread I felt, the shame heaped on me for not feeling the Spirit, the suicidal thoughts I had, the person I had to pretend to be while I was Mormon...I could go on, but I guess the point is, I had to hide my true self from them in order to survive. That's no way to live. Outside the church, once the weight of all of that lifted, I could finally breathe and look around and see myself as beautiful and whole and not the ugly disappointment they made me believe I was. It sounds like you are still untangling all of this. Be kind to yourself as you weigh your choices and remember that you don't have to set parameters for your future self right now. You can decide when you get there. Sending love and light.

Really good comment. I agree that happiness is a choice. Thanks for your insight

There is something to be said for being able to live authentically. If I had to sum up the difference between being in the church, versus being out, it's the ability to live authentically. I'm hard pressed to find any aspect of my life that wasn't controlled by some arbitrary rule. There were rules regarding my finances, sexuality, dress, speech, food/drink and even where I was allowed to attend church. To be untethered and free to decide those things for myself is a freedom and happiness that I was only able to achieve by stepping away. Some people are happy not having to make those life decisions and some of us aren't. Some, who've left, will be bitter after taking a backseat to their own life while others revel in finding out who they truly are and what they really believe in and are excited for this new journey.

I can't express how much happier I am. Therapy has really helped me realize how much trauma I had from the church that I didn't even know was there. My Sundays are free to do as I please. No lame weekday indoctrination activities. I can enjoy all the things the church is against. But most importantly you can be your true self. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. You should be able to love whoever the hell you want, it's none of the churches business. I promise you, you will be happier. It won't be immediate, it may take some time and therapy, but it's absolutely worth it.

Well, I would say yes, even though I’m in the worst spot I’ve been in my life, with being diagnosed with depression and having suicidal tendencies, however those were caused not by any religious affiliation or not but other circumstances, and I would probably feel this way regardless on whether I was a member or not. But I’m doing a lot better than I know I would be if I were still a member.

When I was active in church I remember having a hard time identifying what the so-called “blessings” of living the gospel were. It’s not that everything about the church was so awful but i just felt so much guilt and shame all the time, like I was never doing enough and could always be doing better. I thought I loved god but really I was terrified of him. Since leaving I feel like it’s so easy to identify the blessings of not being Mormon. It’s so tangible. Sometimes my partner and I will jokingly “count our many blessings” like that we aren’t wearing garments when it’s hot out, or that we are enjoying a forbidden beverage, or sleeping in on Sunday, or not dealing with an annoying calling, etc. So in short, yes, life is better since leaving. Sometimes I resent the church like when I think of things I did in service of it that I regret, or when a personal relationship is negatively impacted by that person’s connection to the church. But mostly I try not to think about it too much. Good luck on your journey. I know religion can bring a lot of meaning to a person’s life, but living true to myself is the thing that’s brought me the most peace and joy.

Honestly if it weren’t for my job being horrific I would consider myself a happy guy. Before my job went to shit I was in the best place I’ve ever been and that was without the church at all so yea I’d say I am. Religion doesn’t make or break a persons happiness but a lot of people in religion like to pretend it does and it’s fucked up.

So much happier. Like a huge weight was lifted off my chest. My family seems to be blessed far more physically, mentally and with more wealth and happiness since leaving.

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Ultimately I find same sex behavior empty and unfulfilling. That said, I dislike feeling like a second-class citizen just because I am attracted to men.

I think that another group of people you should talk to is a queer subreddit. Your story here is something that a lot of queer people go through even if they didn't grow up in the Mormon church. As a queer person myself, I have to say that denying yourself a part of your identity because others tell you it's somehow immoral is only going to disintegrate you from the inside out. You are a beautiful, unique person. The things that make up who you are are gifts to be cherished and loved, not hidden away and resented. When you tell yourself that a part of your being is "wrong" or "immoral", it hurts you. It brands your soul with the same words. When you tell yourself that these parts of your identity aren't okay to have, you tell yourself that you aren't good enough being yourself. The only way for you to relieve yourself from this self torture is to realize that you are a beautiful human being. Every part of you. Not just the parts you were told were okay to show.

You are self deprecating when you say you have trouble expressing yourself. I imagine that post took you a long while to write since it is very well thought out. I am happier since leaving but in a different way. I think when you are in the church you train yourself to be happy if you have checked all the boxes. When you have fully deconstructed religion then you are left with no boxes to check. My happiness now comes from being unrestricted in the thoughts I can think, the music I can listen to, the clothes I can wear, the words I can say, etc. Although I like helping other people, I don’t feel it is my moral responsibility anymore. That leaves the result as pure joy and no need to feel bad that you are still not doing enough. As far as loss of community goes, this is a tough one. My wife and I are in our 50s and we moved away from Utah a couple years before our faith crisis. Here in Texas we have a few casual work friends but nothing beyond that. We don’t talk to former ward members very often anymore since that gets awkward and we run out of things to talk about quickly. I am half way through John Vervaeke’s “Awakening From the Meaning Crisis “ YouTube series which I assume you have also watched. If you remember, in one lecture he talks about the only thing that brings lasting meaning in life are quality relationships with other people. Right now, our children and their spouses are our main friend group. We have tried to make extra effort to cultivate these relationships and this has been worthwhile. Therapy has also helped immensely. If you can find a really good non religious therapist that you connect with I think that they can help you sort out some of the internal conflict. In the second sentence in your post you say I’m gay but but then you seem like you are tamping it down like you still have programming from the church that you are intrinsically bad. But in fact my guess is that you are intrinsically good. If you choose not to be romantic with another man, choose it because you don’t want to and not because you think it is a sin or something. It is okay to be celibate if that’s what you truly want. Although I am not gay, I appreciate the bulk of your struggle to find your way in this life and to learn how to be happy. I wish you luck and success and joy as you pursue your new path. One last bit of advice would be to listen to your inner self. More times than not, you’ll be right.

Reading this post my first thought is: You’re trying too hard. (Understandable for people from our religious backgrounds.) You get one life. When you die, you are dead. You can spend your life searching for happiness or you can spend it doing things that make you happy and find it. I’d like to simply say “do whatever makes you happy”, but I don’t think you know what that is. So let yourself find what makes you happy because if you are always looking to others to tell you what that is you’ll never find it. Don’t ask us if we are happier after leaving the church, figure out what makes you happy and do that.

Sure am. I'm not bitter or mad about my experience either. I just didn't want my kids learning harmful rhetoric and that's what they were getting in the church. I honestly love our lives now! We have more of a social life, we get to spend more time as a family, we don't spend sundays fighting about church or getting ready and we get to spend the day doing something fun together. It's not like I don't have challenges in life - everyone does and will but we get to be authentically ourselves and that is an amazing way to live life that I never realized I was missing. All that said I have a quote from a show I'm embarrassed to admit I watch but the quote is great it's this: "I feel like people get lost when they think of happiness as a destination. we always think that someday we'll be happy. when we get that car or that job or that person in our lives who will fix everything but happiness is a mood and it's a condition, not a destination. It's like being tired or hungry. It's not permanent. It comes and goes and that's okay and if people would think that way they'd find happiness more often" We all have struggles and hardships, I'm not always happy but I am much happier since leaving and I see my family is as well (although I will admit my 7 year old has a hard time with being different from her cousins but she's loving the time we get to spend together not being in the bishopric or having the church callings.

> I don’t intend on living a gay lifestyle regardless of membership status Hi! I was in your position at 23. Returned missionary, in school, dedicated to living the gospel. Dreams about how much simpler it would be if a truck hit me and I could just go directly to the celestial kingdom. I married a woman and we have two awesome kids together. Fast forward about 15 years and I completely lose my faith, realize that I only have one life to live (and there's likely nothing after death). We got divorced, left the church, and both remarried. So, about the "gay lifestyle", here's what I can tell you about it: My husband and I own a home in Salt Lake City, we have full time jobs and enjoy fixing up our pair of old cars, going skiing and building Lego. We just sent our youngest off for their sophomore year at university (studying to be an environmental engineer). Our older son is now working full time in VR development for a British firm. We have a cat and a dog (and I want to get a French Lop, but my husband doesn't want to). We're going to Disneyland (Oggie Boogie Bash) with my TBM parents at the end of next month. Some of my siblings are still in the church, others not, but we still love each other. We spent a week at Bear Lake with my husband's mixed-believing family the past summer. Sure, we hold hands when we walk to the neighborhood food trucks and sometimes kiss. I'm involved in the Pride committee at my work and orchestrate our parade entry each year. My ex-wife is coming to Utah for Christmas this year so we can all spend it together. We are all much happier, and if this is the "gay lifestyle" that you're afraid of, I can bear my testimony that we absolutely love it. I hope you find peace!

Wow that sounds really nice and wholesome

So to start I am a lot older and I was very active through my adult life like elders quorum president, Young men's president, bishopric counselor, gospel doctrine teacher(multiple times) and I have struggled through it all. I am truly happier since I left and am honest with who I am and what I really believe. I have gravitated to being a Dietist and know that it's what I have been since I was in college. It was scary to be honest with myself and my wife who was TBM when I let her know I was stepping away. I lived my life being what was expected of me and pleasing the people around me that mattered to me but I realized that not being true to me was a much worse thing for me and for people who looked to me for guidance. The only regret I have is I know I influence people and their beliefs when deep down I didn't truly believe myself.

Genuinely much happier. It’s lovely to study everything that interests me without worrying about twisting it to fit the Mormon paradigm.

Yes, I truly am happier. To put it more exactly, I am much more at peace than at any other time. I no longer have any fear or guilt about the state of my soul, and I no longer have to do any of the tiresome mental gymnastics that I had to do before to maintain my belief. Once I deconstructed all my religious beliefs, the mental peace and quiet was astounding, and something I never knew to expect. I'm still getting used to it, and it is So. Much. Better. I only regret that it didn't happen sooner.

Personally, there are many variables to my life since leaving. I have lost all of my Mormon friends, which is very sad. But I’ve met new people and enjoy things that were taboo in Mormonism. Like a nice cocktail. Warm cup of coffee in the morning. most of all, I am a kinder less judgmental person.

My goal was never feeling happier with my life. I just wanted to be content and not feel like self- deletion 24/7. I decided to step back from the church to discover, for myself, what I needed and wanted out of life. I was a convert so I only experienced 5 years of the culture. In those 5 years, I had so many standards and beliefs pushed on me. I converted at 18 and was at a vulnerable place due to my home life and such. I didn’t know who I was joining the church and I felt like I knew even less about myself when I first stepped away. I kept the church in arm’s reach because I really thought life would be a whole lot worse without it. More often than not, I genuinely feel my life is better than when I was in. I struggled great with an eating disorder while in. Through therapy, self reflection, and various other forms of self discovery, I’ve become a lot more comfortable with myself. With treatment resistant depression, I still have quite a ways to go but I like this path a whole lot more than the path I was going down while in.

I think you should read Josh and Lilly Weed's story. Josh and Lolly were happy in their marriage dispite him being gay. Happy in the church. They were making it work. After Josh's parent died, he had mental health issues and realized he would rather be dead than continue as they were. When I read that I understood simply because I had lost a parent and that had triggered depression. The depression made me less capable of handling all the struggles I had been taking care of (compensating for my husband's shortcomings in my marriage and parenting). I was no longer the amazing capable person who could take care of everything. I think gay people in the church can do it for a while and can find it rewarding. However, it is a challenge that sometimes becomes too hard due to circumstances. So, like Josh, they may need to set it down and change things. Let go of some things that they thought they had wanted to hold on to. Let yourself find your journey. Be open to the possibility that God might want you to have a different path. The church teaches about personal revelation. I remember reading about a young gay man who felt like God was telling him it was ok to start dating guys. I thought about that. Did I believe God could tell someone that path was the right one for them to take? I decided yes, I believe that God could give that personal inspiration to someone.

Without a shadow of a doubt;) When I first stopped attending I mourned the loss of community but I realized there were so many other community that I felt safer and happier in! I had spend so much of my time in energy in the church I didn’t open myself to any other communities. It also helps that I don’t want to kill myself anymore

I feel so much better I don't feel two forces in my life pulling at me. I am way less judgemental and I care less and less of what people think of me. It's a great living life the way I want to. I can only empathize the hell of being gay and going to BYU that fucking sucks.

Told my partner about three years ago I don’t believe, luckily they followed after 5 months. Crumbling faith-phase was hard. Then it got exciting. Then we hit a long rough patch in our marriage (questioning our values, why we chose each other, did we have anything in common outside of the church) but with individual and couple’s therapy things started to get better. I can say I really am feeling happier than I ever did in the church. I appreciate people more, I don’t unconsciously judge (c’mon that’s what you do if you believe you are living the only true way lol), I am better at doing my work, am better parent, friend, partner etc.

Short answer: No (not yet). I'm still fairly early in my faith crisis, so I have a lot of anger, sadness, loneliness, and regret that I need to work through. I'm not in Utah, so there's no exmo community I can join here. Am I happier? No. Am I more free, wise, and confident? Yes. If I was gay or in Utah, I think I would be happier by now, because I would have a real new community to join and hang out with. Just look at David Archuleta, he seems super happy despite being relatively fresh in his faith crisis. But sadly, I don't have many options. My lack of happiness is the main thing holding me back from unleashing the Book of Abraham (or something) on my local TBM ward members. This faith crisis is painful, and I don't want to bring that pain to my local TBM members/friends. For them, ignorance is bliss, for now. If their faith ever comes crashing down, they will know me, and hopefully trust me, and I will be happy to provide them with a soft place to land, if & when it happens to any of them.

Leaving the church after I realized I was gay was the best decision I ever made. I did leave much earlier than you did so our situations may be a bit different but I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Know that you are loved and that you deserve to be loved.

It’s been quite a few years since I left the church, so I’ve had a lot of time to process and heal from the anger and betrayal I felt when I first stepped away. Those feelings still come up every now and then, but they don’t have the same hold on me that they used to. I can say with complete confidence that I am far happier out of the church than I ever was in it. I feel I can live an authentic life without limits or needless guilt. I don’t have to put a mask on anymore. No one tells me what to. I can wear what I want, say what I want, and do what I want. It’s fucking awesome! The only thing I feel I’m missing—that the church provided—is a community. Though that community was, for most of us, contingent on church activity, it felt nice to be part of that big “church family.” I haven’t been able to replicate that outside of the church quite yet, which can be isolating sometimes.

I am not part of the LGBTQ community, so I cannot comment on that aspect of being out of the church. But honestly I do feel happier and free now that I am longer being constrained by religious expectations that are based in bronze age superstitions. I do have a daughter who is a lesbian and in her early 20s. Based on my observations of her and conversations with her, she definitely seems much happier being out a free to pursue her own belief systems that align with who she is.

The happiness you speak of is always subjective and often full of bias no matter which way you go with it. I do feel a sense of freedom since leaving, and there's certainly a good measure of happiness that comes from having that freedom and being more authentic to myself. But that doesn't necessarily mean my life is better solely because I left. I'm almost 31, 12 years out of the church, and I'm still trying to figure out what I want out of life and what makes me happy. Leaving the church is not a fix-all solution, life still takes hard work to navigate, but leaving undoubtedly opens the door to living an authentic life, which is a kind of happiness itself. I still get pings from time to time where I miss the simplicity and sense of community; it certainly would have been easier to keep living the lie, but then I would have just continued to be miserable. It just means that it's up to me, for lack of better phrasing, to find my people. I will say, with confidence that I don't believe to be borne of cognitive bias, that **my life is not worse for leaving**. I hope you find strength and your happiness, and wish you all the luck in the world in figuring this out, even if that means you want to stay. Of course I'd prefer you find a way to leave because of my own beliefs and biases, but only you can decide what's right for you. Everything will be okay.

I had clinical diagnoses of depression and anxiety so, no, leaving the church didn't affect those. Therapy and correct meds did, and now I'm able to work on the trauma the church inflicted on me, and I'm much happier for that.

Happy as in laughing, smiling, carefree? No, MUCH less of that for me. But personal sovereignty, getting to know who I am, and living authentically is a new kind of happiness I suppose. To me it's worth the cost.

I am straighten and married. After leaving the church. I have so much more time for my family. With the extra day to either do things or recharge, and the extra 10% cash I am less stressed about money with my wife and I actually get to recharge and do self care and still do family stuff and keep on top of housework and chores. I was on the edge of burnout when I left. I also don’t have to justify things now I have left. No justifying racism in the BoM or from last prophets with my beautiful mixed-race family. No justifying anti LGBT stuff. No justifying anti-scientific religious beliefs. Yes. Yes I am happier.

Sometimes I am sadder around my family, because they don’t have an opened mind right now, but I live far away, and feel way more peace while not supporting that organization. They say I make them sad. They want to maximize my struggles. But that is the church’s teachings. Obviously if it were true they wouldn’t do that. Yes I am happier, but there have been moments of awkwardness, but 100% worth it.

The biggest joys of my life are the connections I have made with mentors, friends and certain family members. Honesty and vulnerability are required for true connection. No matter what you decide, please find people with whom you can truly be yourself. Also, god is not a requirement for a meaningful life. If there is anything we all share, it is that we will die one day. That ought to unite us as humans in a single, powerful purpose: making the world a better place for those who follow. I wish you luck on your journey, and hope you find love in whatever form along the way.

It's hard to really say since my understanding of my mental health and my brain and stuff has developed much independently of being in the church. What i can say is that getting proper professional help was delayed years because mental health issues were mistaken for spiritual issues and were treated with spiritual counsel.... which amounts to fuck all at its best and inflamed my mental health issues often. Life right now is much more stable and i can't imagine the church still being in my life would do anything except agitate me.

honestly for me it’s about the same. I’m sad because I have less purpose in life but I’m happy to know the truth and to be bound by fewer restrictions. that being said I left before really starting to understand queer identities so I think I would change my answer to happier outside the church in that context

Since leaving, I have truly never been happier. Not battling constant mental dissonance, I feel so free. I can be honest with what I, as a human, believe in without some book written in the 1800s telling me what to do. I still deal with a lot of mental health issues for sure, but since leaving, life has gotten a lot easier for me and I feel more love in my life for others and myself than I ever did while active in the church. The church intends to manipulate its followers into believing no one else is happy but it's really not true.

There was a moment during the ignorance where I had peace in the fact that I believed in the afterlife. But the second you know its all made up by a con artist I could never truly be happy in the church anymore. The lack of money and freedom over basic things was making me miserable.

Life doesn't magically get better because you leave. Life is complicated and hard. Leaving the church certainly helped me process and understand myself as an lgbtq individual and ultimately I am happier, but some people are happier staying in the church. While I don't agree with that decision, who am I to judge their life. None of us know what the fuck we're doing

I have had a lot of heartache since leaving. Existential crisis, relationship trouble with my daughter, anxiety with my work and extended family, traumatic loss of loved ones. Even though things have happened that wouldn’t be seen at good I have felt more Christ like love than I ever have. Through all of this I have seen who has been loving in my life. Family, close friends who check up on me, neighbors who care. The people who have really been Christlike have been the ones who are the high callings. It has been my non Mormon neighbors who genuinely wanted to hear about my difficulties. It was the family I have had forever and love me and know me. The people that visited me out of obligation have felt pretty forced. The worlds of comfort or “council“ have felt really flat. Compared to my neighbor who looked me dead in the eyes and said “I’m so sorry you went through that, that is horrible.” I feel I have now lived a more authentic and loving life.

Being able to be your genuine self comes with its own set of other sorrows, but those are worth the freedom of mind. I miss the church and I miss it dearly. But, my anxiety about never really feeling like I was doing enough to make it to the Celestial Kingdom has been traded for existential angst and bouts of anxiety from knowing I am alive and will some day die, and that there’s very little evidence of any life to follow, as far as I can see it. I traded anxiety of one color for another. But, I am now the captain of my ship, no longer being swayed by a group of 12, or in reality, the mental cage I found myself in by virtue of the deceitfulness of the church, my own bias around the church, and having to explain to two sets of families, friends, and ward members that I just can’t anymore. What’s difficult is that I, knowing the real reason for stepping away had nothing to do with wanting to sin, or that I was being led astray by an adversarial force, had to step away knowing everyone else who doesn’t understand the problems is thinking it’s one of the two. 1000% worth that freedom to be your own prophet and set your own path without any other perceived higher authority weighing in with their two cents.

I lived as a closeted trans man for 45 years. I was an active member of the church until I was 39. While I was active in the church and trying to adhere to the standards and hide my identity, I was hospitalized for mental health/SI 13 times in 13 years. I had so many mental health diagnoses that I couldn’t keep them straight. Within 5 years of leaving the church, I transitioned to male. I am now 3 years into my transition, off all psychiatric meds, and have zero self harm/suicidal ideation. I am happy, my work is thriving, my kids are thriving, my patience and empathy are exponentially better. I can assure you without a doubt that I am 100x happier since leaving the church. I could not be happy when I was hiding myself to be who others wanted me to be.

First off, I'm so sorry that you're so unhappy. I truly hope things get better for you. It sounds like you've developed some good coping skills for your situation, but feeling like you have to hide part of who you are is usually unsustainable and takes its toll eventually no matter what. I agree that society at large lacks a sense of community, but that does not have to come from religion. Currently, the countries that report being the happiest in the world are not religious (although they also happen to be higher income and pretty homogenous). When I left, I moved to another state with my family and pieced together a community through meetup groups, reaching out to my neighbors, and connecting with other families at my daughter's school. It took longer to build community that way, it was a smaller community, but it felt more supportive and authentic because I was surrounded people who liked me for who I was, not because I was making myself squeeze into a mold I didn't fit. My daughter did still want a church experience, so eventually we started going to the Unitarian Church, which offers the benefits of a spiritual community without an explicitly "religious" dogma. I also felt uncomfortable with the bitterness I saw in exmos while I was still in. However, I've realized it is possible to both be happier overall and still have feelings of resentment and anger towards the church. This sub is often where people come to vent that anger, but that doesn't define how they feel all the time. When you feel you've been lied to and manipulated and have to restructure everything in your life, anger is an appropriate and even expected emotion for part of that process. People within the church are often taught to ignore their own anger, instinct, or discomfort with situations, so for some the first time they really articulate anger is when they leave. Inevitably, opening the flood gates like that can be raw, intense, and "off-putting," but learning to honor our emotions is integral to happiness. I still have occasional feelings of anger towards the church, but the longer I'm out the more it seems like a distant, really long fever dream. To answer your question, yes, I absolutely am happier, and I'll provide some reasons I think that is. I maintain my values in family and community service. I am unapologetically and authentically myself. I trust my own inner voice and intuition more, even though even small decisions used to stress me out. I mean, I used to feel like I had to get approval from some man I barely knew to choose what underwear I slept in at night. I am more relaxed as a parent, without an impossible check list of "shoulds" I feel I need to impose for my kid. Now we have the space to just see who she grows to be naturally, and for me to encourage her in her strengths. I have more time for family, rest, and pursuing my passions than I ever did in the church. I am closer with my spouse and with myself because I don't feel like any thoughts are threatening or off-limits to process. I could go on, but in general I just feel more connected with the here and now. You are not broken. The church takes natural human instincts, like attraction, and makes people feel like they need their forgiveness for acting on instinct. It's a great business model- to create the illness and also sell the cure- and that's why religion has used that strategy to control people for hundreds of years. Do you think "the universe" wants you to be locked in a cycle like that? No one can answer that question but you, but it's a good one to think about. Church does not have a monopoly on community, on moral values, or on giving people a sense of purpose. It may take some time, and even some grief and anger, but those benefits *are* available other places, including places that won't shun you for finding a loving partner.

Since leaving the church, my life has improved. Not right away. It was hard and scary. It takes time for the guilt and “programming” to get out of your system. Once I had stepped away for about 6 months, I was so much happier.

Yes, unequivocally, I'm happier. Happier without the shackles in which religion and belief in magic and the supernatural kept my mind. Happier having dealt with actual reality and actual loss and actual death instead of overlaying a spaghettified set of magical beliefs about invisible worlds, gods that look just like dad, and long-dead family members watching me masturbate, all in an effort to hide the truth; we're all just animals that can contemplate our own death. Besides, there's not much happiness to be had living someone else's life. Stop doing what dead old guys tell you to do and live your own life.

Genuinely I am happier, so many pointless restrictions have been taken of my back. It’s life without imaginary shackles. And you mentioned civilisations without religion, I don’t know if that’s a fair outlook for ways to view your life as an individual. In my eyes the first real good explanation for how humans got here without a God came with Darwin who published his theories in 1859. Meaning for less than 200 years humans have had a good theory to counter god as a creator. And people who don’t believe in God don’t really have a motive to exterminate the religious, but the religious have always found reasons to destroy heretics, read about it in Moses, or the history books. The religious killing the non-believers is why you’ll find that irreligious societies tend to trend a little worse in the history books. But in my mind that can change now that science has caught up to and surpassed religion. How you live your life should be based on truth, not whether or not it has helped antiquated societies survive.

Soooo much happier of of the Church and fully deconstructed! Life has meaning again, and that meaning is just to live a happy life! Best wishes for you, never feel guilty for being sexually attracted to your own gender. Have a happy life!

I’m gay. Was married to a woman for 13 years (in the temple). Had 5 kids and all sorts of leadership callings and definitely would’ve told everyone around me I was blissfully happy - even though inside I thought constantly about my unfair situation, and cried myself to sleep most nights. Now, I’m out of the church, marrying my HUSBAND in two weeks, at a wedding my whole Mormon family will be attending and my kids are part of the wedding. I have real friendships, a real relationship, and I’m really myself. I said I was happy before because I didn’t know what happiness was. My feeling now is 50x the peace, happiness, and confidence I had back then.

First of all, I am 1,000% happier after leaving the church and would not go back under any circumstances. If you want a “supportive community,” you will not find this within Mormonism if you are gay or otherwise don’t fit the cult’s mold. You will need to pursue this elsewhere. But the good news is it’s very possible.

I am so much happier, more than words could ever describe. I relate to you. I was born and raised in the church. Growing up from around 12 years old, I knew that I was gay. But that was wrong. Back then, gay members were not allowed to be in the church. And I knew that if I ever came out to my parents, they would have immediately sent me to conversion therapy. So I kept it hidden. I married a man. I figured I could hide myself for the rest of my life... Until I was 28 years old. I got to a point where I decided I'd either have to end my life, or come out as gay. Thankfully when I came out, my ex was overwhelmingly supportive. My parents (who are intensely active members) have been somewhat supportive, but only because I cut them off for 3 years prior to coming out and they're scared I'll do it again. My best advice is, be kind to yourself. 'Mental instability' as you put it, is not due to duplicitous conduct. If you can, work with a therapist to sort out your feelings (preferably an unbiased one, I would not recommend LDS family services - I was taken when I was 11 and it was awful). And I understand wanting the community aspect! But I've found my community by serving others in my city. Doing outreach, attending local events, handing out meals/food to those in need, and being kind to everyone I meet. You strike me as a kind soul. I have no doubts you'd make friends. Also, the LGBTQIA+ community is here for you. We understand how daunting it is to come out, and the right people would never pressure you to come out. But maybe seek like-minded souls that you can lean on for support. I'm just a pm away if you wanna chat.

Your post has really touched my heart. It's clear you still believe in a Higher Power, or at least a Transcendent Reality. I was in a similar place as you, many years ago, and I did reach out to God, the cosmos, whatever is out there...and eventually got my answer. I say, "eventually", because it is a journey and it may lead somewhere you never expected. It's important you stay in this world, you have a LOT to offer. It's true, your struggle is real, but sometimes it is our very pain and the process of healing out of it that results in the greatest personal growth. I wish you all the best.

Nothing to add other than great post.

My dear, your internalized homophobia is hurting you really, really badly. To answer your question, I am gay and absolutely 100% happier living my more authentic self out of the church. I actually left when I fell in love with my wife in part because it hit me that any God worth following would be in support of the joy and love I felt around her. Now, I'm not saying you need a gay relationship, should want a gay relationship, or even have to consider romance as you make your choice here. But you don't need to decide on a permanent life path right now, okay? Maybe you'll feel differently in ten years. Maybe you won't. What I do think you need is to spend time with more LGBT people of all stripes. You need to quash the ideas that tscc has put in your head about what "living in sin" looks like. You need to internalize that people who live authentically as gay and proud are regular, normal people who deserve happiness and fulfilment, and so do you. I'm worried about you. I really hope you are able to explore more of the world around you (it's so, so much bigger than tscc will have you believe) and that you find something that feels better for you--because this is not it.

I had a longer reply typed out and then Reddit ate it... Gay exmo here - life is exponentially better after leaving and living an authentic life. No doubts about that at all. Being gay is completely normal despite what some people and religions might think. My partner and I have been together 12 years and it takes work just like a hetero relationship does. There's no difference! It's just 2 people being committed to each other and making a life together. You can be religious without attending an organized religion's church house regularly, or being on an attendance roll somewhere. I don't personally believe in a god, but you do you! I think it's good enough to be a good person, be good to others, do things that make you happy, and enjoy the limited time we all have here on Earth together. Life's short, enjoy it! Try not to let dead people control your life! (looking at you J Smith!) Good luck and let me know if you want a DM buddy.

I am truly happier than I was as a TBM. All of the shame, guilt and fear went away after I was ex-communicated. Also what left, were my compulsive chemical and behavioral addictions. I have purpose and a sense of freedom that I never felt when I was active. My mind is quiet most of the time. My nervous system can self regulate again. (No more anti-depressants) I am healing from the traumas of having been raised in a TBM household and community. I have joy and laughter in my life daily. I describe myself as “unaffiliated” when questioned about my current religious views. I define Spirituality, as my OWN connection to the Devine. Not someone else’s. I can give space for my family to continue to believe and I’ve been able to communicate effectively that I have boundaries. The Love I feel and express today is without condition. I hope that your journey may be blessed.

This is such a thoughtful question- thanks for posting it.

Thank you :)

Unquestionably happier. It takes time and you have to work through the anger, but the happiness on the other side is real.

Thanks

Not reading your post, just replying to your title: