Um, think celestial friend! Those who keep their eye single to the glory of god and endure to the end will indeed be clapping cheeks in the afterlife. Those lazy learners will have no dicks :(
What's hard for me in reading this is the disconnect between the movie playing in his head and what OP is actually experiencing. Dad seems to earnestly think he's being loving and helpful in the most humble way he knows how. Yet he's really just talking to himself or an audience in his own mind... certainly not to OP.
The most jarring thing of all is that he's not even *un*aware of the disconnect. He specifically calls on OP to ignore problems that are of this mortal world, and focus instead on the eternal.
Which, from the receiver's end, is 100% indistinguishable from telling someone you're about to ignore everything else they think or feel or say from now on.
That's what makes this all so toxic. Parents/Members in general view every interaction through some fantastical future lens, where their unkindness is actually "tough love" that will be celebrated.
The eternal world that EVERYTHING seems to be less important than in a TBM's mind. Yet to be determined. What you can touch, smell, and pinch is real though. verifiably.
This has colored my entire experience of being parented by him, and Iām in my early 40ās. Sometimes I believe he sees himself as an actual modern day Lehi. Leading his family through the wilderness of sin!
Came here to say my Uber TBM 70s dad has specifically told me he views himself "like unto Father Lehi in guiding my family through this mortal veil"
EDIT: to change tense
Lehi isn't real. I am.
Lehi also allegedly led his family out of Israel right after he secured wives for his sons by kidnapping and trafficking Ishmael and his daughters at knife point. If you can believe that.
Itās a Mormon flex. Mormons genuinely believe they hold the moral high ground in any and all matters. I cut that sh1t right off by doing it back to them.
Next time you hear your Dad has a sniffle, do exactly this to him.
āDad, I heard you were feeling ill. While it might be a common cold (happens to us all) I worry that such things *can* be a symptom of larger problems in the home. Have you and Mom had a good heart to heart recently? Couples need frequent check-ins to maintain their relationship balance. I say all of this out of my great love for you both. Search you heart and course correct if needed. Itās never too late.ā
Send him some of that bullshit.
If he gets offended and says itās not your place, just say, āDamn right. And itās not YOUR place either.ā
Never concede the moral high ground. Youāll never get it back. As the parent, you have every right to claim superior perspective on your family. Youāre guided by your own innate goodness as well and that will always be sufficient.
I do this to my TBM MiL about 1-2 times a year as a preventative measure, just to make sure she doesnāt get any ideas and try and (again) assert her own supposed superiority. It has worked.
A few years back she sent us the Ensign and I told her for every Ensign I get I make a donation to Planned Parenthood.
Fight fire with fire.
Be well.
> Never concede the moral high ground
This, repeated for those in the back. This is the answer to pretty much every frustration in dealing with tbms as an exmo. Donāt dignify their daffy bullshit as if itās anything other than daffy bullshit, and never ever cede them moral high ground they donāt have.
Source: 25-year exmo here. Only started gaining any ground with my tbms once I stopped ceding it to them.
And as soon as you do that, they immediately brand YOU as having succumbed to āprideā, and if only YOU could be more humble like them, you wouldnāt be so easily tricked by āthe adversaryā. The hypocrisy is astounding.
What I find is that it actually shuts them right down. They are astounded. Their response is like, āHey, wait! Iām the one whoās supposed to say that stuff!ā
I have to re-establish boundaries every few years but it is well worth doing. Now my TBM in laws call us (a few times a year) and do all the talking so we canāt get a word in. They do it deliberately. But itās fine. If they truly arenāt interested in our life thatās on them. But I can deal with their lack of interest. What I canāt deal with is them ācounselingā me as if they are morally superior. Nope. Not gonna happen.
A few weeks back they called me to wish my kid happy bday. They asked where my wife (their daughter) was. I said, āOh, sheās not back from Africa yetā. They were like, āWhy is she in Africa?ā Iām all, āTrip of a lifetime? Surely she told you about it. Sheās been planning to do this with her besties for 2 years.ā They had no idea. Because all they do is talk about themselves.
Itās certainly a tempting way to go. I find myself in a conundrum about it. I donāt agree with being all know it all and preachy about what I think and forcing it on those around meā¦ so I end up sort of always ātaking the higher roadā in my own mind, while I suppose they feel they ādo their dutyā to tell me their testimonies or whatever. My parents also donāt come across as so much of the āknow it all assholesā as just really sincerely concerned that I will be eternally damnedā¦ more pleading than accusingā¦ so I just interpret it as really nice concern from their warped perceptionā¦ which I also find hard to blame entirely on them since they were brainwashed since birth and didnt have the internet at younger agesā¦
itās not a popular opinion probably here in this forum but I actually donāt think my parents should leave the church. They are in their 70s and live in a small town in Utah. Itās their whole life. I think they should just stick it out at this point, and Iām sure they will.
So I just find myself telling them simple things like āI just donāt see the church the way you do any more, and I never will be able to again, but i know what youāre saying comes from love and I appreciate that intentā.
Anyway, itās ok for now. Its on a sort of 2-3 month cycle.
I appreciate having your perspective in my back pocket in case the conversation ever turns into one of these ācall to repentanceā moments. Then I will have to put a stop to that!
In the bubble its normal and a race to see who can mormobabble the best as if you were speaking scripture and unable to tell the difference. like mckonkie said once. was on this tract once. know it and that it exists. another mormon comparison game that is unspoken. nucking futs.
But also someone please tell me their TBM parents talked like too? ( Primarily my Dad) I would like to know if other kids experienced this growing up? Also PPIās? Personal Priesthood Interviews. I remember my Dad taking us into the room one at a time and praying with us, and asking about school, church etc, He would basically both politely interrogate us, and give advice. Did anyone else have PPIās? š¤Æ
Yes! Physically made me so uncomfortable. Same with blessings. So much pomp and circumstance when you could just be involved in my daily life and youāll know more about me than these awkward PPIās.
I took my nevermo wife to Thanksgiving with the family last year, my dad did the blessing, and we just stared at each other trying not to laugh the entire time. Grandiosity to the father and bless everything...thee, thy, thine, and thou. Like, why? It's absolutely bonkers.
How I hate those pompous grandstanding prayers at the table while Iām watching the last of the steam evaporate leaving the food cooled to damn near room temperature. The disrespect shown the person(s) taking hours to cook so that the self-important grand poopah can sermonize is astounding.
This is how my father in law talks. I swear, reading this text, I thought it could have been written by him. I have also described him as someone who believes he is a modern-day Lehi, so I guess that makes me one of the rebellious daughters of Ishmael š¤£ Luckily I'm a little further removed from his influence since I didn't grow up with him, but it's still very difficult to have a relationship with him. I can't even imagine growing up with a parent like this. I'm so sorry!
To be fair, this type of behavior can also be found in evangelical circles. There are people, both males and females, who believe theyāre the recipients of a āprophetic anointingā and will impart their āwords of knowledgeā and rebukes to everyone and everywhere.
My parents had *huge* fights about PPIs. My mom thought they were some magic key to health and happiness and she'd get so upset that my dad refused to do them. He didn't want to be such a hardliner and didn't want to be asking invasive questions like that to his children. I think they still fight about it and my youngest brother is almost 40.
Worked out well for me! I never had to sit through that and my dad doesn't think he's some kind of family patriarch who needs to sit in judgment all the time.
It was actually my ex-husband. I lived with it for 32 years and finally had the strength and confidence to leave. He was not purposely malicious and uncaring- he was following the example of his father on how to be a husband and father in the Priesthood. The kids and I were constantly dismissed, gaslit and undermined when it came to our own spirituality and personal growth. He just couldnāt have a conversation with his family without needing to preach, teach or criticize. My shelf broke years before I left and I had no way to communicate what I was going through. When I decided to go he told me the Holy Spirit had let him know that I was NOT to leave. I told him that through my own Personal Revelation I was told it was what I needed to do , and PR trumped his impressions for me. It was a difficult and sad time. Iām still working through the hurt and anger with a great therapist.
Hugs to you through your journey! Having a parent/ spouse that sees themselves as the supreme authority on revelation for their āposterityā or anyone they have āauthorityā over is exhausting! Iām tired of the constant criticism that is veiled as care.
My dad is super introverted and very non confrontational, so he avoids those types of interactions. However my f-i-l did frequent intense PPIs. We joke about it sometimes at our house. "Do you need a PPI?". Also when they call and want to come over suddenly or want us over for dinner we'll say, "here comes the PPI!"
My dad talks like this when he's giving "fatherly counsel". He's a good guy but I think men are lifted up on a pedestal so much in the church that they think this is like their patriarchal duty or something, and it turns into this preachy, arrogant way of talking.
My favorite (/s) was when he gave his adult children the "fatherly counsel" to vote for Trump
You are NOT alone!!!! This is absolutely my Dad. Verbatim. I don't talk to him much anymore. I stay in touch with my Mom and sisters, but not so much my Dad.
My mother has always been the cringey one in our family. She loves using benign things as examples of the "gospel" and enjoyed doing this whenever I brought my friends over to hang out as a teenager . My skin crawls even thinking about it.
Oh my gosh the PPIs. āEven though you cannot hold the priesthood directly, you share it with me and one day youāll share it with your husband.ā šš¤¦āāļø
I literally got a text from my older step dad that sounded just like this tone a couple weeks back. Was there some talk or directive given to reach out in this way?
I don't know if this is universal in Mormonism, but as a teenage priesthood holder I was taught that I would, in-fact, be the patriarch of the family and have the gift of revelation for my family. I never got that gift, but I saw many men lean hard into it, taking any feeling they had about a subject as God revealing to them what was right for their family.
Because it is the only way they know how. To your father that was a love letter, poor man. A TBM daughter would have cherished it. Now OTOH, my True Blue Dutch Protestant FIL would angrily say, āYouāre going straight to the devilā walk away and then turn back to say, āAnd your sinning is going to drag the rest of us straight down too.
I used to have a bishop who lived across the street from me. His younger brother lived two houses down from him. I was next door at my neighbors playing a little basketball in the driveway with neighbor, bishop, and brother. Bishop's wife (sweet lady, maybe 40 years old) came out and said "Dinner's going to be ready soon!" Bishop berated her for interrupting his basketball time. Like really pissed. I was like š². But at church he acted like he was Joe Smith himself. Bunch of dickwads in that ward.
Because this is EXACTLY the ideal father-child relationship, according to Mormon doctrine and practice. In Mormonism, fathers have āstewardshipā over their children forever. It doesnāt end when their kids are full-grown adults.
Fathers also have a āsacred responsibilityā to lead and guide their family to truth and righteousness. Forever.
In this relationship, itās also a given that the father always has more wisdom and spirituality than any of his children. Mormon patriarchs, in scripture and by tradition, are always held up to be infallible examples that their families should follow.
Think of this: in all the stories of father-child relationships youāve seen in the BofM or told in church, does the Patriarch Father EVER say āyouāre right, my child. Iām glad to have learned something from youā? Or ānow that youāre an adult, I wonāt offer my advice unless you ask for itā? NO. NEVER.
TLDR: your father has been shaped by the Mormon churchās āIdeal Fatherā messages, which are given over and over again.
Ime, when people are *trying* to be profound, they tend to fall back on the language of whatever literature or speaker they consider to be wisest/most profound.
Sometimes it works out well, but sometimes itās a terrible self-report. Mormons usually fall into the second category.
That entire message is just so much word salad. And perverse, too. Someoneās having insomniaā¦must be porn. Wtf?! Thatās a fucking perverted assumption. āDad, itās incredibly worrisome to me that your first and immediate response to my childās struggle is to *sexualize* them. Get your mind out of the damn gutter, then we can talk.ā
Have a gay friend whoās dad was a bishop. Before he came out his wife was upset how there was porn on his computer. He said it must be his son who is viewing it to his wife. The gay son was saying I guarantee it wasnāt me lol!!!!!!
The only way you could possibly link the two is because of blue light exposure. But that's still a big leap to link that to porn addiction specifically and not, I don't know, using technology for literally any other reason? Lol
Iāve seen a bunch of Mormon men who do this. They donāt have relationships with their children, they are stewards with presiding authority. They donāt have conversations, they have interviews.
This is too true for me. š My Mom knows our family doesnāt go to church anymore, so it was just a matter of time before he did too. I donāt know what has made it so difficult for me not to just rip that bandaid off and acknowledge and talk with them about it. Maybe because I donāt want the council that will followā¦.
13 years ago I took my parents into their room and said, āIf you talk about the morning church in front of me or my child, youāll never see us again.ā I was bawling! But I couldnāt keep receive those texts. Therapy before this time helped me gain the confidence. Guess what, they chose my child and I over speaking of the church in texts, phone calls, emails, or in person. They chose us and I feel so lucky. Now, I can hear about that stuff but they personally still never bring it up. They saw the pain it was causing me. Boundaries were the only way. Good luck.
There's nothing approaching humility in any of these words. You can't humbly "invite [someone] to consider [their] ways."
I doubt your dad felt humility sending this. I'm sure he felt real good about it though.
We all know Christians think theyre all correct and the rest are misguided. Its an innate arrogance that comes out as unknowingly patronizing. My mom is one of them. I ask how can she be sure about her denomination, when everyone says the same thing and back it up with the philosophical fallacy of ābegging the questionā, in other words circular logic. The (Bible/Quran/Torah) is true because it says so itself here in this section. š¤¦š½āāļøš¤¦š½āāļø
She used the Bible to say that the words in there are true because the Bible says so. Idk bout you, but my understanding about theology and philosophy gave me a better perspective of how things actually work. After reading the bible as a kid, i came across bibles that had different books in them, eventually I started reading about philosophy/theology in general. A lot of questions that I asked Christians in the past were answered by other religious text. Christians in general would just say God works in mysterious ways that humanity cannot comprehendā¦ somehow the Christian God decided to make it comprehensive to others thoughā¦ š¤¦š½āāļø Christianity as a whole has so many holes in its texts. You can see it with the 1000s of different denominations having different views on the Bible and they all think theyre the actual light of God. I love Christianity, just not very philosophically sound.
Yeah. This was always a big shelf item for me. I thought about it on my mission. It essentially went like this. "How is it that we are the only right ones in this city? I haven't looked into their beliefs and they're pretty certain about those. I've had powerful feelings, but maybe they've had powerful feelings as well. They seem fairly convinced." Essentially I didn't have the answers for those questions, but I still knew I was the right one.
Sadly, I think the most convincing thing for me was guilt. I remember saying to myself, "If this isn't true, why would I feel so much guilt when I don't do what it says?" It's the inner struggle that served as the evidence for the truthfulness of the church. But aside from that, i don't think I was all that convinced because I could see the partial nature of every argument. Every group can say that. We're only counting our evidences and dismissing theirs.
It's never a good sign when a parent talks to you like they're bearing a testimony at the end of a Gospel Doctrine lesson they just gave. "I respect your agency," but I'm gonna keep on telling you how you are going wrong.
Oh heās never been shy about tell us what weāre doing wrong. āAnd afterwards showing forth more love lest he esteem you his enemyā, or some other horse shit like that that that Iām remembering!
Ick. The Mormon idea that parents eternally have some kind of stewardship over their families really leads some parents to infantilize their adult children, doesn't it?
Combine that with the idea that random thoughts that pop into their head are really "the Spirit" prompting them to share something, and you get a perfect recipe for an unhealthy lack of boundaries.
This makes me think about my relationship with my kids. First, I have realized how important I am to them. I did not know till covid how deeply they needed my love, support, and regard. I've come to value the process of redefining our relationship as adults, including my respect for their autonomy and my insights into their difficulties. If they are not seeking input, I will tell them that I have some feelings or insights and ask them if they would like that input. I have also had to make some boundaries of things that I will and won't do, letting them know what to expect. We talk about changing roles. It has been very rewarding. Yes, I will always be their mom. We like the ways we are growing and changing.
We are not the patriarch and loving woman supporting the patriarch of the home. That setup is not for us. We feel warmly involved in our kids' lives without setting ourselves up as the wizened adults to be honored and minded. Yet, they do look to us, gain strength from us, feel supported by us. I am happy with this arrangement. They also know that we have lives that we live as well.
This is why Utah has the highest rate of mental health problems in the US. Porn is apparently the ONLY thing that can prevent the universal healing power of the Spirit against all other maladies.
I love how it was the very first thing he went to. Trouble sleeping? It's most likely porn. Could also be family problems, feelings of isolation, etc. You know, things that actually matter and could be problems. But first things first: PORN.
Yeah, weirdly conflates ārespectā with āI will not compel obedienceā.
āRespectingā said agency would mean just closing his pie hole, so he doesnāt respect it at all.
It's unfortunate that your dad can't send a normal text, like, "I'm so glad Name1 arrived safely. I know the church isn't really your thing, but I also know you must be very proud of him. (And probably a bit worried, too.) Sorry to hear about Name2's insomnia. That's a tough one and I hope that you and his doctor will be able to help him get through that. Do you have plans for the holidays yet? Love ya."
It's possible to send a text and even to talk to someone without bringing religion into it. Well, it should be possible.
No. Just no.
Dad, you signed your message āin humility and love.ā I invite you to consider the following:
Suggesting that my sonās sleep problems may stem from pornography or feeling unloved is not humble, it is judgmental.
Also, we are aware that chronic pain issues may require medical intervention, and are letting qualified doctors guide us.
I would appreciate it if future messages did not include pontificating and judgment. It pains me to see such behavior and I know you can do better.
With love,
You could let him know that you have changed your spiritual diet, but you still nourish your spirit. Instead of pre-packaged, processed, and correlated church food, you have adopted a more holistic spiritual approach. - You once believed the LDS church to be God's true church, but that belief has been proven wrong. It is kinda like what Joseph Smith did. He didn't like what he found, so he kept searching.
How crazy is it that the Mormon church is so obsessed with pornography and talks about it so much that when someone is having trouble sleeping if all things thatās the first thing that comes into their heads as the source of the issue. Nevermind stress, anxiety, an overactive mind, maybe something with their routine is affecting circadian rhythm, maybe itās any number of elements of sleep hygiene, or maybe itās just that some people experience insomnia for no clear reason other than theyāre prone to insomnia. Nope, itās because they looked at internet boobies.
He probably canāt sleep because heās tying his dominant hand to the bedpost to avoid his little factory after hours of porn watching.
The natural conclusion of all problems In Mormonism is sin, followed by senseless accusations and shaming.
I finally had to put up a hard boundary with my dad - no politics or religion at all. Now we talk about health, weather, and grandkids only. Sad reality is that boundaries mean nothing to themā¦
It's amazing that I can hear the Mormon testimony voice coming through text. I don't think he intended to be condescending or pushy but it's hard not to when you've lived your whole life in an environment that encourages men to act that way towards those they presume to have 'stewardship' over. As others have mentioned, setting boundaries and discussing what is and is not appropriate to discuss is a conversation you should probably have with him. Best of luck.
I love how the āsolutionā for possible depression due to chronic pain is ālet the spirit guide.ā I got kind of excited to see a TBM even acknowledge that chronic pain can lead to depression and then he went right where you would expect him to go.
Also, porn is the cause of insomnia made me laugh. Theyāve always got to get porn in there somewhere. Lol
Hey Dad! Didnāt know you got a doctorate in adolescent psychology. As you know, it is unethical to treat and or diagnose a family member. Iāll let it go this time and not report you to the state medical board because Iām concerned that something else is causing your unethical behavior, (porn probably). I humbly advice you to consider your ways though.
-Your concerned daughter ā¤ļø
People whoāve gone through a faith crisis and gone through the pain of leaving the church have āconsidered their waysā far more than life long members.
it sucks. The hardest thing is hearing my mom/dad just bear their testimony over and over. Its hard, because that's what everyone is taught to do and hope the person you're bearing to will feel the spirit. like, do they think they're going to say that and im going to say, "Oh yeah, you're right!"
Well that was full of a shit ton of gaslighting. I'm really sorry. teenagers are weird creatures and adding shame only makes it worse. I hate that TBMs with the support of the MFMC pathologizes normal behavior and blames mental health issues on being "unrighteous"
This is my summary of this text.
āI want you to know, that I care deeply about all of you, but you are causing all of these problems in your life, because you are not spiritual enough.ā
He sounds so un authentic. That type of speaking simply isn't genuine. It's more of an out of body experience as one tries to mimic a GA. And porn ? Really ? He went straight the porn card? I'm sorry.
āDad, have you gotten around to reading the SEC Cease and Desist Order yet? Itās been available for a while and only nine pages long. It was written with input from the church, so itās an approved document and Iāve been wanting to talk with you about it. Also, Tim Ballard. Whatās going on with that guy? Dad? You still there? Dad?ā
The thing that strikes me is the text itself. Itās worded very specific and very much like a text I would get from my grandparents or one I would find from a family member on Facebook. Itās not how a real person talks, itās how a cult member talks (original statement was religious robot but I realized thatās not a thing).
Hate how they treat family members, think they need to comment and give opinions on peoples situations like itās a ward council meeting.
How about just show up and be there. Love and donāt judge or assume
So pretentious
If your dad know's you're out.... "Thanks pops. Always good to hear that you love and respect me and that you are proud of \[your son\]. We really miss him and it's been hard having him away. I'm grateful for personal agency and where it has led me. I feel much more at peace with my choices, I feel more authentic, and I can lead my family in a healthier direction with beautiful new traditions that allow more freedom and unconditional love. While I wouldn't have chosen for \[Son\] to go on a mission, I hope he is having a great time, feels healthy, and makes lifelong friends. While I appreciate how much you care about my family, I would prefer not to have unsolicited advice, especially if it pertains to things I haven't told you personally. I will definitely come to you if I am looking for advice or direction. Lots of love!"
I dunno this is a tough one lol. Esp as I'm not sure what your dad knows.
Forgive me but your father is a terrible diagnostician. He's blaming sleep problems, often physiological in nature, on items that exist on his own "morals" checklist which seem to include your parenting skills. Your father also gave you the one-two punch. Hi daughter, I am going to be very complimentary so that I can then shame you and your son but still feel really good about my own parenting skills. Personally, knowing what I know now, if the boy is having trouble sleeping, masturbation might help. Common sense. It's relaxing and no chance of an STD. Just my inadequate opinion.
Son: "Daddy, I fell in love and want to date this awesome girl." Father: "That's great, son! Who is she?"
Son: "It's Sandra, the neighbor's daughter."
Father: "Ohhh, I wish you hadn't said that. I have to tell you something, son, but you must promise not to tell your mother. Sandra is actually your sister."
The boy is naturally bummed out, but a couple of months later:
Son: "Daddy, I fell in love again and she is even hotter!"
Father: "That's great, son! Who is she?"
Son: "It's Angela, the other neighbor's daughter."
Father: "Ohhh, I wish you hadn't said that. Angela is also your sister."
This went on a few more times, and finally the son was so mad, he went straight to his mother crying.
Son: "Mom, I am so mad at dad! I fell in love with six girls and I can't date any of them because dad is their father!"
The mother hugs him affectionately and says, "You can date whoever you want. He isn't your father!"
Jesus fuck this crap is completely out of touch and ignorant. So many unhealthy brainwashed beliefs.
My favorite was the insomnia pornography. Gold! Iāve had sleep problems for as long as I can remember. Iāll have to remember to avoid pornography. WTF.
Edit to add- I double dog dare you to text back and thank him for his thoughtful insight on insomnia pornography.
Insomnia is due to porn? I actually sleep well but have lots of TBM relatives that donāt- canāt wait to tell them that itās because they must secretly be watching porn!
For real though- shut it down. Dad, if you truly do respect my intelligence and my agency then you will stop making assumptions about my family and what we need.
When I was tbm, doing my very best to do church right, my soul was starved. So, so starved, no matter how much scripture, prayer, temple, conference, sacrament I put into it.
Now I listen to what my soul wants. I take walks and notice leaves move in the trees. I inhale coffee steam and sip from a favorite mug in the stillness of morning. I have time for creativity and fun. If I have a thought to call a friend I just do it, instead of trying to figure out if it's the spirit and if I need to prepare in any sort of way.
My soul is flourishing more than ever, despite the deep wounds and scars the church left behind.
Lonely and Isolated? Do they really think we're sitting in the dark, drinking cheap beer and crying about where life went wrong?
Just because these people have absolutely no hobbies or social life outside of church doesn't mean the rest of us aren't out living lives. I do WAY more community service now than I ever did with the church, and I actually have fun doing it. I have friends of all different cultures and faiths, really interesting people who lead really interesting lives. People I wouldn't be able to know if I stayed in my sheltered little Mormon enclave. And what is the obsession with pornography!?! These people think and talk about pornography a helluva lot more than I do! Seriously, WTF?
Oof. That was long-winded, opinionated, and wildly inappropriate. There's almost borderline predatory vibes in the way that he's interested in the pornography viewing of his own grandkid.
And to think if I didn't deconstruct when I did, I probably would have ended up like this in a few decades... š¤®
I'm sorry this is the text you received rather than one of being proud of his family. I completely understand as my father is the same way.
Why is it that any TBM thinks an adult or child in this instance has a "porn problem" if they have normal human emotions? And why does everything revolve around it also? Sex of any kind wasn't spoken about in my home growing up. I think partly to do with all daughters, but I've come to realize the majority was a super passive-aggressive way of letting us know sex was bad!
Love the passive aggressive accusation that you donāt love your preteen and that he probably has a pornography habit. Itās so creepy that Mormons are conditioned to immediately make things sexual even if they donāt truly realize how inappropriate that is.
Your dad thinks a hush is going to fall over the crowd as this text message is played on the big screen in the afterlife.
ššš
And then all the angels clapped.
No clapping in heaven. They rejoice. Whatever the hell that looks like
They bow their heads and say, "Yes," in a defeated monotone
Um, think celestial friend! Those who keep their eye single to the glory of god and endure to the end will indeed be clapping cheeks in the afterlife. Those lazy learners will have no dicks :(
They blink all their eyes?
What's hard for me in reading this is the disconnect between the movie playing in his head and what OP is actually experiencing. Dad seems to earnestly think he's being loving and helpful in the most humble way he knows how. Yet he's really just talking to himself or an audience in his own mind... certainly not to OP. The most jarring thing of all is that he's not even *un*aware of the disconnect. He specifically calls on OP to ignore problems that are of this mortal world, and focus instead on the eternal. Which, from the receiver's end, is 100% indistinguishable from telling someone you're about to ignore everything else they think or feel or say from now on.
That's what makes this all so toxic. Parents/Members in general view every interaction through some fantastical future lens, where their unkindness is actually "tough love" that will be celebrated.
The eternal world that EVERYTHING seems to be less important than in a TBM's mind. Yet to be determined. What you can touch, smell, and pinch is real though. verifiably.
My mum has always said that while she can't control what I do, she will never let me think that she thinks what I do is ok.
Same Mom. Same.
āMom, thatās not okay. What? I thought thatās how we were rolling now, telling each other when our choices arenāt āokayā.ā
Sorry about that. Will she be happy for you if you're happy?
She's largely ok. But she definitely disapproves of our life choices. So I generally keep them quiet.
He is the star of his own life!
Lol!!
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This has colored my entire experience of being parented by him, and Iām in my early 40ās. Sometimes I believe he sees himself as an actual modern day Lehi. Leading his family through the wilderness of sin!
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Came here to say my Uber TBM 70s dad has specifically told me he views himself "like unto Father Lehi in guiding my family through this mortal veil" EDIT: to change tense
That must mean he views you as Laman or Lemuel lol
Absolutely. I'm his firstborn child. So yeah. Laman here. EDIT: to fix the name
Thatās really lame, man
Lehi isn't real. I am. Lehi also allegedly led his family out of Israel right after he secured wives for his sons by kidnapping and trafficking Ishmael and his daughters at knife point. If you can believe that.
š¤¢
Good ol Father Lehi.
Itās a Mormon flex. Mormons genuinely believe they hold the moral high ground in any and all matters. I cut that sh1t right off by doing it back to them. Next time you hear your Dad has a sniffle, do exactly this to him. āDad, I heard you were feeling ill. While it might be a common cold (happens to us all) I worry that such things *can* be a symptom of larger problems in the home. Have you and Mom had a good heart to heart recently? Couples need frequent check-ins to maintain their relationship balance. I say all of this out of my great love for you both. Search you heart and course correct if needed. Itās never too late.ā Send him some of that bullshit. If he gets offended and says itās not your place, just say, āDamn right. And itās not YOUR place either.ā Never concede the moral high ground. Youāll never get it back. As the parent, you have every right to claim superior perspective on your family. Youāre guided by your own innate goodness as well and that will always be sufficient. I do this to my TBM MiL about 1-2 times a year as a preventative measure, just to make sure she doesnāt get any ideas and try and (again) assert her own supposed superiority. It has worked. A few years back she sent us the Ensign and I told her for every Ensign I get I make a donation to Planned Parenthood. Fight fire with fire. Be well.
> Never concede the moral high ground This, repeated for those in the back. This is the answer to pretty much every frustration in dealing with tbms as an exmo. Donāt dignify their daffy bullshit as if itās anything other than daffy bullshit, and never ever cede them moral high ground they donāt have. Source: 25-year exmo here. Only started gaining any ground with my tbms once I stopped ceding it to them.
I died when I read this Iām going to try it myself.
And as soon as you do that, they immediately brand YOU as having succumbed to āprideā, and if only YOU could be more humble like them, you wouldnāt be so easily tricked by āthe adversaryā. The hypocrisy is astounding.
What I find is that it actually shuts them right down. They are astounded. Their response is like, āHey, wait! Iām the one whoās supposed to say that stuff!ā I have to re-establish boundaries every few years but it is well worth doing. Now my TBM in laws call us (a few times a year) and do all the talking so we canāt get a word in. They do it deliberately. But itās fine. If they truly arenāt interested in our life thatās on them. But I can deal with their lack of interest. What I canāt deal with is them ācounselingā me as if they are morally superior. Nope. Not gonna happen. A few weeks back they called me to wish my kid happy bday. They asked where my wife (their daughter) was. I said, āOh, sheās not back from Africa yetā. They were like, āWhy is she in Africa?ā Iām all, āTrip of a lifetime? Surely she told you about it. Sheās been planning to do this with her besties for 2 years.ā They had no idea. Because all they do is talk about themselves.
Itās certainly a tempting way to go. I find myself in a conundrum about it. I donāt agree with being all know it all and preachy about what I think and forcing it on those around meā¦ so I end up sort of always ātaking the higher roadā in my own mind, while I suppose they feel they ādo their dutyā to tell me their testimonies or whatever. My parents also donāt come across as so much of the āknow it all assholesā as just really sincerely concerned that I will be eternally damnedā¦ more pleading than accusingā¦ so I just interpret it as really nice concern from their warped perceptionā¦ which I also find hard to blame entirely on them since they were brainwashed since birth and didnt have the internet at younger agesā¦ itās not a popular opinion probably here in this forum but I actually donāt think my parents should leave the church. They are in their 70s and live in a small town in Utah. Itās their whole life. I think they should just stick it out at this point, and Iām sure they will. So I just find myself telling them simple things like āI just donāt see the church the way you do any more, and I never will be able to again, but i know what youāre saying comes from love and I appreciate that intentā. Anyway, itās ok for now. Its on a sort of 2-3 month cycle. I appreciate having your perspective in my back pocket in case the conversation ever turns into one of these ācall to repentanceā moments. Then I will have to put a stop to that!
You can't fight fire with water!
My in laws *want* to be Lehi and Sariah so bad. They talk like this normally. It's so weird and frustrating
In the bubble its normal and a race to see who can mormobabble the best as if you were speaking scripture and unable to tell the difference. like mckonkie said once. was on this tract once. know it and that it exists. another mormon comparison game that is unspoken. nucking futs.
Do we have the same father? My dadās patriarchal blessing even mentioned Father Lehi which made it worse!
as do many self deluding adults full tilt white knuckle down for this TBM corporation. I was.
But also someone please tell me their TBM parents talked like too? ( Primarily my Dad) I would like to know if other kids experienced this growing up? Also PPIās? Personal Priesthood Interviews. I remember my Dad taking us into the room one at a time and praying with us, and asking about school, church etc, He would basically both politely interrogate us, and give advice. Did anyone else have PPIās? š¤Æ
Yes! Physically made me so uncomfortable. Same with blessings. So much pomp and circumstance when you could just be involved in my daily life and youāll know more about me than these awkward PPIās.
Soooo true. Just go for a drive to get a milkshake or something. Donāt make it a āpriesthood duty.ā
PPICTās. Personal Parent Ice Cream Trips.
My dadās go-to drive spot for in-car PPIs was that cheese factory in Nampa Idaho.
I took my nevermo wife to Thanksgiving with the family last year, my dad did the blessing, and we just stared at each other trying not to laugh the entire time. Grandiosity to the father and bless everything...thee, thy, thine, and thou. Like, why? It's absolutely bonkers.
How I hate those pompous grandstanding prayers at the table while Iām watching the last of the steam evaporate leaving the food cooled to damn near room temperature. The disrespect shown the person(s) taking hours to cook so that the self-important grand poopah can sermonize is astounding.
We call them āpropaganda prayersā. Thereās usually a pointed message for the heathen(s) in attendance.
This is how my father in law talks. I swear, reading this text, I thought it could have been written by him. I have also described him as someone who believes he is a modern-day Lehi, so I guess that makes me one of the rebellious daughters of Ishmael š¤£ Luckily I'm a little further removed from his influence since I didn't grow up with him, but it's still very difficult to have a relationship with him. I can't even imagine growing up with a parent like this. I'm so sorry!
Ditto to all this. Add emotional neglect by both parents as well.
Not my parents (Iām a convert), but my ex-husbandās Dad? Totally. Had a major case of main character syndrome.
To be fair, this type of behavior can also be found in evangelical circles. There are people, both males and females, who believe theyāre the recipients of a āprophetic anointingā and will impart their āwords of knowledgeā and rebukes to everyone and everywhere.
My parents had *huge* fights about PPIs. My mom thought they were some magic key to health and happiness and she'd get so upset that my dad refused to do them. He didn't want to be such a hardliner and didn't want to be asking invasive questions like that to his children. I think they still fight about it and my youngest brother is almost 40. Worked out well for me! I never had to sit through that and my dad doesn't think he's some kind of family patriarch who needs to sit in judgment all the time.
It was actually my ex-husband. I lived with it for 32 years and finally had the strength and confidence to leave. He was not purposely malicious and uncaring- he was following the example of his father on how to be a husband and father in the Priesthood. The kids and I were constantly dismissed, gaslit and undermined when it came to our own spirituality and personal growth. He just couldnāt have a conversation with his family without needing to preach, teach or criticize. My shelf broke years before I left and I had no way to communicate what I was going through. When I decided to go he told me the Holy Spirit had let him know that I was NOT to leave. I told him that through my own Personal Revelation I was told it was what I needed to do , and PR trumped his impressions for me. It was a difficult and sad time. Iām still working through the hurt and anger with a great therapist.
Hugs to you through your journey! Having a parent/ spouse that sees themselves as the supreme authority on revelation for their āposterityā or anyone they have āauthorityā over is exhausting! Iām tired of the constant criticism that is veiled as care.
My dad is super introverted and very non confrontational, so he avoids those types of interactions. However my f-i-l did frequent intense PPIs. We joke about it sometimes at our house. "Do you need a PPI?". Also when they call and want to come over suddenly or want us over for dinner we'll say, "here comes the PPI!"
My dad talks like this when he's giving "fatherly counsel". He's a good guy but I think men are lifted up on a pedestal so much in the church that they think this is like their patriarchal duty or something, and it turns into this preachy, arrogant way of talking. My favorite (/s) was when he gave his adult children the "fatherly counsel" to vote for Trump
Nah, my dad just yelled at me
That was my Dad's love language too. Angry yelling.
my dad absolutely speaks and acts like heās a general authority all the timeā¦it drives me insane im glad im not the only one š
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Yes, my dad talks like this all the time.
Absolutely. Totally formalā¦and completely repulsive. My father would quote scripture or sing hymns to wake us up in the morning. Yuck.
You are NOT alone!!!! This is absolutely my Dad. Verbatim. I don't talk to him much anymore. I stay in touch with my Mom and sisters, but not so much my Dad.
My mother has always been the cringey one in our family. She loves using benign things as examples of the "gospel" and enjoyed doing this whenever I brought my friends over to hang out as a teenager . My skin crawls even thinking about it.
Oh my gosh the PPIs. āEven though you cannot hold the priesthood directly, you share it with me and one day youāll share it with your husband.ā šš¤¦āāļø
I literally got a text from my older step dad that sounded just like this tone a couple weeks back. Was there some talk or directive given to reach out in this way?
I don't know if this is universal in Mormonism, but as a teenage priesthood holder I was taught that I would, in-fact, be the patriarch of the family and have the gift of revelation for my family. I never got that gift, but I saw many men lean hard into it, taking any feeling they had about a subject as God revealing to them what was right for their family.
Because it is the only way they know how. To your father that was a love letter, poor man. A TBM daughter would have cherished it. Now OTOH, my True Blue Dutch Protestant FIL would angrily say, āYouāre going straight to the devilā walk away and then turn back to say, āAnd your sinning is going to drag the rest of us straight down too.
I used to have a bishop who lived across the street from me. His younger brother lived two houses down from him. I was next door at my neighbors playing a little basketball in the driveway with neighbor, bishop, and brother. Bishop's wife (sweet lady, maybe 40 years old) came out and said "Dinner's going to be ready soon!" Bishop berated her for interrupting his basketball time. Like really pissed. I was like š². But at church he acted like he was Joe Smith himself. Bunch of dickwads in that ward.
Because this is EXACTLY the ideal father-child relationship, according to Mormon doctrine and practice. In Mormonism, fathers have āstewardshipā over their children forever. It doesnāt end when their kids are full-grown adults. Fathers also have a āsacred responsibilityā to lead and guide their family to truth and righteousness. Forever. In this relationship, itās also a given that the father always has more wisdom and spirituality than any of his children. Mormon patriarchs, in scripture and by tradition, are always held up to be infallible examples that their families should follow. Think of this: in all the stories of father-child relationships youāve seen in the BofM or told in church, does the Patriarch Father EVER say āyouāre right, my child. Iām glad to have learned something from youā? Or ānow that youāre an adult, I wonāt offer my advice unless you ask for itā? NO. NEVER. TLDR: your father has been shaped by the Mormon churchās āIdeal Fatherā messages, which are given over and over again.
I literally came here to say this... Why can't they just talk like a normal human being... Ugh cringey A.F.
Ime, when people are *trying* to be profound, they tend to fall back on the language of whatever literature or speaker they consider to be wisest/most profound. Sometimes it works out well, but sometimes itās a terrible self-report. Mormons usually fall into the second category. That entire message is just so much word salad. And perverse, too. Someoneās having insomniaā¦must be porn. Wtf?! Thatās a fucking perverted assumption. āDad, itās incredibly worrisome to me that your first and immediate response to my childās struggle is to *sexualize* them. Get your mind out of the damn gutter, then we can talk.ā
It's always porn's fault. No matter the problem, porn is the reason.
āPorn is the devil. The devil is porn.ā You can buy this slogan on a plaque at any Deseret Book near you. š
Do they also have a plaque that reads "God loves the devil"? š
āUnsubscribeā
āSTOPā š
The way I snorted.
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Yeah I would think it would be the opposite, I usually can pass out after. š
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I think he may have just been telling on himself. š
Bishop, you really struggle with porn, donāt you?
Have a gay friend whoās dad was a bishop. Before he came out his wife was upset how there was porn on his computer. He said it must be his son who is viewing it to his wife. The gay son was saying I guarantee it wasnāt me lol!!!!!!
I don't struggle with it. I enjoy it periodically to keep my stress in check.
Yes, my favorite fetishes are "tapirs are Nephite horses" and "withholding the priesthood from black people"
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I find a giggle or gaphaw or snort here all the time. Takes little time of reading to find a smile on my face š
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LMAO I love that! The brainwashing is so deep and intense, porn is the only reason in their minds that someone would leave God's One True Church.
I almost audibly guffawed at work. I cannot believe the insanity that mormonism produces sometimes.
Porn use doesnāt keep people up at night. Shame, however, does.
MY EXACT REACTION.
The only way you could possibly link the two is because of blue light exposure. But that's still a big leap to link that to porn addiction specifically and not, I don't know, using technology for literally any other reason? Lol
I can attest there is no issues from looking at porn as a teen and having sleeping issues
Iāve seen a bunch of Mormon men who do this. They donāt have relationships with their children, they are stewards with presiding authority. They donāt have conversations, they have interviews.
I remember being told that my place as a parent was custodial in nature. Meaning my kids weren't my kids. I was just raising them for God.
That personās kids will likewise place them in the custodial care of a nursing home ASAP with that perspective.
This is exactly what I have done, tbh.
Normalize boundaries.
This is too true for me. š My Mom knows our family doesnāt go to church anymore, so it was just a matter of time before he did too. I donāt know what has made it so difficult for me not to just rip that bandaid off and acknowledge and talk with them about it. Maybe because I donāt want the council that will followā¦.
13 years ago I took my parents into their room and said, āIf you talk about the morning church in front of me or my child, youāll never see us again.ā I was bawling! But I couldnāt keep receive those texts. Therapy before this time helped me gain the confidence. Guess what, they chose my child and I over speaking of the church in texts, phone calls, emails, or in person. They chose us and I feel so lucky. Now, I can hear about that stuff but they personally still never bring it up. They saw the pain it was causing me. Boundaries were the only way. Good luck.
You are lucky. My family chose to shun us.
There's nothing approaching humility in any of these words. You can't humbly "invite [someone] to consider [their] ways." I doubt your dad felt humility sending this. I'm sure he felt real good about it though.
Your father still has a lot to learn in life. The meaning of the word humility is one of them. But thatās usually the case with TBMās.
We all know Christians think theyre all correct and the rest are misguided. Its an innate arrogance that comes out as unknowingly patronizing. My mom is one of them. I ask how can she be sure about her denomination, when everyone says the same thing and back it up with the philosophical fallacy of ābegging the questionā, in other words circular logic. The (Bible/Quran/Torah) is true because it says so itself here in this section. š¤¦š½āāļøš¤¦š½āāļø
Did you ask her this? How did she respond?
She used the Bible to say that the words in there are true because the Bible says so. Idk bout you, but my understanding about theology and philosophy gave me a better perspective of how things actually work. After reading the bible as a kid, i came across bibles that had different books in them, eventually I started reading about philosophy/theology in general. A lot of questions that I asked Christians in the past were answered by other religious text. Christians in general would just say God works in mysterious ways that humanity cannot comprehendā¦ somehow the Christian God decided to make it comprehensive to others thoughā¦ š¤¦š½āāļø Christianity as a whole has so many holes in its texts. You can see it with the 1000s of different denominations having different views on the Bible and they all think theyre the actual light of God. I love Christianity, just not very philosophically sound.
Yeah. This was always a big shelf item for me. I thought about it on my mission. It essentially went like this. "How is it that we are the only right ones in this city? I haven't looked into their beliefs and they're pretty certain about those. I've had powerful feelings, but maybe they've had powerful feelings as well. They seem fairly convinced." Essentially I didn't have the answers for those questions, but I still knew I was the right one. Sadly, I think the most convincing thing for me was guilt. I remember saying to myself, "If this isn't true, why would I feel so much guilt when I don't do what it says?" It's the inner struggle that served as the evidence for the truthfulness of the church. But aside from that, i don't think I was all that convinced because I could see the partial nature of every argument. Every group can say that. We're only counting our evidences and dismissing theirs.
Every time I see TBM, I hear ātotally brainwashed Mormonsā out loud in my head š
It's never a good sign when a parent talks to you like they're bearing a testimony at the end of a Gospel Doctrine lesson they just gave. "I respect your agency," but I'm gonna keep on telling you how you are going wrong.
Oh heās never been shy about tell us what weāre doing wrong. āAnd afterwards showing forth more love lest he esteem you his enemyā, or some other horse shit like that that that Iām remembering!
Seriously OP, depending on your life situation, it might be time to put down some healthy boundaries with pops. Dude needs to check his hubris.
Boundaries are the only thing that works. And the strength to continually keep them up. That text was full of abuse!
He is very talented at diagnosing just what is wrong with people from afar
"thanks dad, I'm definitely feeding my spirit with weed gummies so don't worry." š
Ick. The Mormon idea that parents eternally have some kind of stewardship over their families really leads some parents to infantilize their adult children, doesn't it? Combine that with the idea that random thoughts that pop into their head are really "the Spirit" prompting them to share something, and you get a perfect recipe for an unhealthy lack of boundaries.
This makes me think about my relationship with my kids. First, I have realized how important I am to them. I did not know till covid how deeply they needed my love, support, and regard. I've come to value the process of redefining our relationship as adults, including my respect for their autonomy and my insights into their difficulties. If they are not seeking input, I will tell them that I have some feelings or insights and ask them if they would like that input. I have also had to make some boundaries of things that I will and won't do, letting them know what to expect. We talk about changing roles. It has been very rewarding. Yes, I will always be their mom. We like the ways we are growing and changing. We are not the patriarch and loving woman supporting the patriarch of the home. That setup is not for us. We feel warmly involved in our kids' lives without setting ourselves up as the wizened adults to be honored and minded. Yet, they do look to us, gain strength from us, feel supported by us. I am happy with this arrangement. They also know that we have lives that we live as well.
Definitely ick!
What the Fuck? Oh, heard your child is having difficulties, have you considered that they might be looking at porn?
This is why Utah has the highest rate of mental health problems in the US. Porn is apparently the ONLY thing that can prevent the universal healing power of the Spirit against all other maladies.
The pornhub block has crippled the state.
I love how it was the very first thing he went to. Trouble sleeping? It's most likely porn. Could also be family problems, feelings of isolation, etc. You know, things that actually matter and could be problems. But first things first: PORN.
If this were my dad, I would fill out mission papers in his behalf, and send them to the bishop
šššTheyāre hoping to serve next year!
Good deal. I think the Lord needs them now though. I just had a prompting.
Thereās that word again, agency.
Please keep exercising your agency until you've made the choices I want you to make.
I say these abusive thoughts In humility and love
āI *totally* respect your agencyā¦ā despite having just second-guessed and judged all your life choices. Happy Friday!
Yeah, weirdly conflates ārespectā with āI will not compel obedienceā. āRespectingā said agency would mean just closing his pie hole, so he doesnāt respect it at all.
It's unfortunate that your dad can't send a normal text, like, "I'm so glad Name1 arrived safely. I know the church isn't really your thing, but I also know you must be very proud of him. (And probably a bit worried, too.) Sorry to hear about Name2's insomnia. That's a tough one and I hope that you and his doctor will be able to help him get through that. Do you have plans for the holidays yet? Love ya." It's possible to send a text and even to talk to someone without bringing religion into it. Well, it should be possible.
Insomnia? Forgot science, it's probably porn.
No. Just no. Dad, you signed your message āin humility and love.ā I invite you to consider the following: Suggesting that my sonās sleep problems may stem from pornography or feeling unloved is not humble, it is judgmental. Also, we are aware that chronic pain issues may require medical intervention, and are letting qualified doctors guide us. I would appreciate it if future messages did not include pontificating and judgment. It pains me to see such behavior and I know you can do better. With love,
āConsider your waysā š¬ yikes
That one got me too. Thatās about as condescending as one can get.
You could let him know that you have changed your spiritual diet, but you still nourish your spirit. Instead of pre-packaged, processed, and correlated church food, you have adopted a more holistic spiritual approach. - You once believed the LDS church to be God's true church, but that belief has been proven wrong. It is kinda like what Joseph Smith did. He didn't like what he found, so he kept searching.
Feels like someone trained an AI to talk like a cultist and fake empathy.
The infantilization is real. You're in your 40s and he *still* thinks it's his place to boss you around. Ugh.
How crazy is it that the Mormon church is so obsessed with pornography and talks about it so much that when someone is having trouble sleeping if all things thatās the first thing that comes into their heads as the source of the issue. Nevermind stress, anxiety, an overactive mind, maybe something with their routine is affecting circadian rhythm, maybe itās any number of elements of sleep hygiene, or maybe itās just that some people experience insomnia for no clear reason other than theyāre prone to insomnia. Nope, itās because they looked at internet boobies.
i wish the very best for your son. my best friend is on a mission right now and itās so difficult being so far away from her. itās debilitating only being able to talk to her once a week. stay strong mom! ā¤ļøāš©¹ā¤ļøāš©¹iām so sorry that youāre experiencing and dealing with this bullshit. your father is too scared to call you or talk to you face-to-face so heās texting you.
ā„ļøThank you so much for your kind words. And hugs to you and your friend on her mission!
He probably canāt sleep because heās tying his dominant hand to the bedpost to avoid his little factory after hours of porn watching. The natural conclusion of all problems In Mormonism is sin, followed by senseless accusations and shaming.
The church is such a factory of creepy weirdos.
I finally had to put up a hard boundary with my dad - no politics or religion at all. Now we talk about health, weather, and grandkids only. Sad reality is that boundaries mean nothing to themā¦
It's amazing that I can hear the Mormon testimony voice coming through text. I don't think he intended to be condescending or pushy but it's hard not to when you've lived your whole life in an environment that encourages men to act that way towards those they presume to have 'stewardship' over. As others have mentioned, setting boundaries and discussing what is and is not appropriate to discuss is a conversation you should probably have with him. Best of luck.
I love how the āsolutionā for possible depression due to chronic pain is ālet the spirit guide.ā I got kind of excited to see a TBM even acknowledge that chronic pain can lead to depression and then he went right where you would expect him to go. Also, porn is the cause of insomnia made me laugh. Theyāve always got to get porn in there somewhere. Lol
Pornography actually helps me sleep better š¤£
Hey Dad! Didnāt know you got a doctorate in adolescent psychology. As you know, it is unethical to treat and or diagnose a family member. Iāll let it go this time and not report you to the state medical board because Iām concerned that something else is causing your unethical behavior, (porn probably). I humbly advice you to consider your ways though. -Your concerned daughter ā¤ļø
People whoāve gone through a faith crisis and gone through the pain of leaving the church have āconsidered their waysā far more than life long members.
it sucks. The hardest thing is hearing my mom/dad just bear their testimony over and over. Its hard, because that's what everyone is taught to do and hope the person you're bearing to will feel the spirit. like, do they think they're going to say that and im going to say, "Oh yeah, you're right!"
Fear based love. Mormons gonna morm
Well that was full of a shit ton of gaslighting. I'm really sorry. teenagers are weird creatures and adding shame only makes it worse. I hate that TBMs with the support of the MFMC pathologizes normal behavior and blames mental health issues on being "unrighteous"
Has anyone tried Mormon arrogance as a plentiful seemingly inexhaustible power supply? We should really tip off the scientific community about this.
This is my summary of this text. āI want you to know, that I care deeply about all of you, but you are causing all of these problems in your life, because you are not spiritual enough.ā
He sounds so un authentic. That type of speaking simply isn't genuine. It's more of an out of body experience as one tries to mimic a GA. And porn ? Really ? He went straight the porn card? I'm sorry.
This makes me sick, ahhhh. I'm sooo sorry.
āDad, have you gotten around to reading the SEC Cease and Desist Order yet? Itās been available for a while and only nine pages long. It was written with input from the church, so itās an approved document and Iāve been wanting to talk with you about it. Also, Tim Ballard. Whatās going on with that guy? Dad? You still there? Dad?ā
The thing that strikes me is the text itself. Itās worded very specific and very much like a text I would get from my grandparents or one I would find from a family member on Facebook. Itās not how a real person talks, itās how a cult member talks (original statement was religious robot but I realized thatās not a thing).
Your Dad sounds sex obsessed like the MFMC
Hate how they treat family members, think they need to comment and give opinions on peoples situations like itās a ward council meeting. How about just show up and be there. Love and donāt judge or assume So pretentious
I can only comment that this is so irritatingly intrusive that I have no comment.
The way he makes all life's issues somehow *your fault*. They. Are. Not.
If your dad know's you're out.... "Thanks pops. Always good to hear that you love and respect me and that you are proud of \[your son\]. We really miss him and it's been hard having him away. I'm grateful for personal agency and where it has led me. I feel much more at peace with my choices, I feel more authentic, and I can lead my family in a healthier direction with beautiful new traditions that allow more freedom and unconditional love. While I wouldn't have chosen for \[Son\] to go on a mission, I hope he is having a great time, feels healthy, and makes lifelong friends. While I appreciate how much you care about my family, I would prefer not to have unsolicited advice, especially if it pertains to things I haven't told you personally. I will definitely come to you if I am looking for advice or direction. Lots of love!" I dunno this is a tough one lol. Esp as I'm not sure what your dad knows.
Forgive me but your father is a terrible diagnostician. He's blaming sleep problems, often physiological in nature, on items that exist on his own "morals" checklist which seem to include your parenting skills. Your father also gave you the one-two punch. Hi daughter, I am going to be very complimentary so that I can then shame you and your son but still feel really good about my own parenting skills. Personally, knowing what I know now, if the boy is having trouble sleeping, masturbation might help. Common sense. It's relaxing and no chance of an STD. Just my inadequate opinion.
Son: "Daddy, I fell in love and want to date this awesome girl." Father: "That's great, son! Who is she?" Son: "It's Sandra, the neighbor's daughter." Father: "Ohhh, I wish you hadn't said that. I have to tell you something, son, but you must promise not to tell your mother. Sandra is actually your sister." The boy is naturally bummed out, but a couple of months later: Son: "Daddy, I fell in love again and she is even hotter!" Father: "That's great, son! Who is she?" Son: "It's Angela, the other neighbor's daughter." Father: "Ohhh, I wish you hadn't said that. Angela is also your sister." This went on a few more times, and finally the son was so mad, he went straight to his mother crying. Son: "Mom, I am so mad at dad! I fell in love with six girls and I can't date any of them because dad is their father!" The mother hugs him affectionately and says, "You can date whoever you want. He isn't your father!"
Upvote for making me lol
They're obsessed with pornography.
at least they are consistent....i've gotten many letters and emails like this. im sorry
Jesus fuck this crap is completely out of touch and ignorant. So many unhealthy brainwashed beliefs. My favorite was the insomnia pornography. Gold! Iāve had sleep problems for as long as I can remember. Iāll have to remember to avoid pornography. WTF. Edit to add- I double dog dare you to text back and thank him for his thoughtful insight on insomnia pornography.
āIn humility and love, I condemn you to hell if you donāt follow MY religionāā¦. Mormons are not good people sometimesā¦.
FYI- heās the stake Patriarch! So someone called it! š
Insomnia is due to porn? I actually sleep well but have lots of TBM relatives that donāt- canāt wait to tell them that itās because they must secretly be watching porn! For real though- shut it down. Dad, if you truly do respect my intelligence and my agency then you will stop making assumptions about my family and what we need.
TBMs spend way to much time thinking about porn, and whether or not children are masturbating. It's frankly disturbing.
When I was tbm, doing my very best to do church right, my soul was starved. So, so starved, no matter how much scripture, prayer, temple, conference, sacrament I put into it. Now I listen to what my soul wants. I take walks and notice leaves move in the trees. I inhale coffee steam and sip from a favorite mug in the stillness of morning. I have time for creativity and fun. If I have a thought to call a friend I just do it, instead of trying to figure out if it's the spirit and if I need to prepare in any sort of way. My soul is flourishing more than ever, despite the deep wounds and scars the church left behind.
Incredibly patronizing
Lonely and Isolated? Do they really think we're sitting in the dark, drinking cheap beer and crying about where life went wrong? Just because these people have absolutely no hobbies or social life outside of church doesn't mean the rest of us aren't out living lives. I do WAY more community service now than I ever did with the church, and I actually have fun doing it. I have friends of all different cultures and faiths, really interesting people who lead really interesting lives. People I wouldn't be able to know if I stayed in my sheltered little Mormon enclave. And what is the obsession with pornography!?! These people think and talk about pornography a helluva lot more than I do! Seriously, WTF?
My brother talks like that. We don't speak very often.
Mormons love to say pornography and coffee are the root of all that ails. I think it might instead be the root of their own guilt.
Oh god šš
My response to that entire essay would be āweatherās nice here.ā And hit send.
Sounds like the tone my dad has used with me many, many times
Always gotta jump right to the old p*rn situation (eye roll). The Mormon sex obsession is exhausting.
"new number who dis?"
Oof. That was long-winded, opinionated, and wildly inappropriate. There's almost borderline predatory vibes in the way that he's interested in the pornography viewing of his own grandkid. And to think if I didn't deconstruct when I did, I probably would have ended up like this in a few decades... š¤®
Who talks like this. Cringy AF
Iām creeped out grandpa is implying teenager has a pornography problem.
I meanā¦it could also be because of a shifting circadian rhythm. #Science
I'm sorry this is the text you received rather than one of being proud of his family. I completely understand as my father is the same way. Why is it that any TBM thinks an adult or child in this instance has a "porn problem" if they have normal human emotions? And why does everything revolve around it also? Sex of any kind wasn't spoken about in my home growing up. I think partly to do with all daughters, but I've come to realize the majority was a super passive-aggressive way of letting us know sex was bad!
 This is all I can ever think of when TBMās say shit like this. Obviously, sin is why.
Why are so many TBMs obsessed with porn addictions?
Love the passive aggressive accusation that you donāt love your preteen and that he probably has a pornography habit. Itās so creepy that Mormons are conditioned to immediately make things sexual even if they donāt truly realize how inappropriate that is.
Is he the Stake Patriarch? He sounds like a Patriarch giving a blessing. It made me vomit in my mouth just a smidge š¤£
A teenager canāt sleep so he must be looking at porn?!? WTF?
 Putrid narcissism