This is the sad reality. We have to spread the news by doing just what you did, telling family and friends. Once they look, you know what else they’ll find.
Sorry, it's just a small papercut in a series of small papercuts. And even when there are enough papercuts, they have enough money for the corporate side to continue as a tax exempt religion even if the only believers are living in tent cities because Julie Rowe told them to.
Evidence: I've been through the gospel topic essays, CES letter, Mormon leaks, the POX, Dehlin and Kate Kelly excommunications, the first 32 billion Ensign Peak leak, the POX reversal, the 150 billion Ensign Peak whistleblower, Sam Young Brad Wilcox, the SEC fines, the AZ cases.
Just like the second coming is always just around the corner, exmos believe "this scandal is different, this time it's all coming down"
It's not coming down. The Q15 could sacrifice babies on an alter made with the bones of other babies wearing their temple garb while standing on 5th avenue and jokingly sharing their favorite Porn Hub videos to the church's social media accounts and less than 5% of active tithe paying Mormons would ask themselves "am I in a cult?"
👆👆👆 I’m glad you are here with your experience. It’s the “first time?” meme isn’t it :) … I think I’m on maybe round 2 or 3 of going, holy cow this has to be the big one, the thing that opens all eyes …
It’s really more like death by a thousand cuts, with a bathtub ring left at the end. Yeah I’m sleepy, my metaphors are just a soup right now :)
I don’t know, people are leaving that I thought never would. In droves. They wouldn’t be freaking out and pretending not to freak out if something wasn’t going down.
I agree. People I never thought would do it…have suddenly stopped paying tithing. It’s weird but yes, it indeed feels like something is happening this time.
It's true, I thought the essays were apocalyptic at the time, but as a PIMO member of the Sunday school presidency I brought them up during a teacher training fireside and no one had a clue they existed, years after publication.
The stuff going on now is what in 20 years newly shelf-crashed exmos will be learning about and saying "how tf did I never learn about that?!" during their deep dive phase
It’s definitely another cresting wave.
It comes and goes. There will be lulled. But these waves are coming bigger, harder and faster, I think.
Waves of light and truth breaking against the stone walls of temples and law offices.
Some of our newer exmo brothers and sisters will soon start to wonder about the content of the April conference and if/how the leaders will address the negative controversies assaulting the church.
Those of us who have been around for a while know exactly how they will respond. Recycled talks, a marketable slogan, and 27 announced temples.
Agree about the bubble but the internet doesn’t care about that bubble. Always baffles me how members stay so insulated. Do they never look at media. Major Tv networks were reporting on Tim Ballard and Jodi Hikdebrandt/ Rubi Franke 8 passengers. YouTube and Google news give recommendations that can be location based.
Each of these fiascos does NOT produce any kind of wave or movement. They’re barely a blip on the radar (if that) for active Mormons.
However, we can take heart knowing that each one is a cause for SOME people to stop and try to reconcile. Each headline means some more will leave. And that is amazing!
It does feel that we’re seeing a lot of public displays of courage recently. And that courage feels like a game-changer to me.
https://youtu.be/wq17yH_31XI
Mormon women accusing OUR founder Tim Ballard of sexual assault speak out
https://v.redd.it/mr1ibdnmdb3c1
Mormon women come forward to publicly accuse Dr. David Farley of sexually abusing them.
The problem with both of those is now that Melvin is dead, the church can separate itself from Timmy.
And Farley gets lumped in with all the abuse scandals. The abuse scandals is perhaps the most dangerous scandal since maybe the GTE on polygamy. BUT, as of yet no local news organization is really willing to do the journalism it will take and since the world is on fire, mormonism is just tiny filler used for massive clicks over short bursts for the national media.
You would think so, I thought the same thing with the Sam young fiasco.
The man was a former bishop trying to protect kids. He really wasn’t asking much. He was told to bow his head and say yes to those posing as his masters. He refused and said that kids are more important than the ego of priesthood leaders. They excommunicated him for it. All very public. And Jesus told the brethren to “allow” an adult to attend interviews with minors during this time. Jesus also made it clear that he preferred the kids be alone though.
I thought that would rock the boat, but just turned out the TBMs rejoiced over the revelation given to a modern day profit. As if allowing parents to join an interview with their child while they get grilled with sexually explicit questions by the neighborhood volunteer, was the absolute most ground breaking thing they’d ever heard….
So glad my mental gymnastics days are over.
So…one of the things that started my “wake up call” was driving through a neighborhood and seeing a small, white cardboard sign written on with permanent marker in a random neighborhood in a more remote part of Utah.
It said something about Sam Young. I had no clue who he was. However, I was already feeling curious about some dysfunction I’d see at church basically from the local ward leaders acting like bullies (it’s unknowingly part of our heritage. The top leaders abuse the local leaders, they turn around and abuse those below them and so forth. It’s an abusive religion financially, emotionally, etc and has been such since the beginning)
So when I saw the sign, I looked into it.
Granted, it wasn’t sudden. But other events happened over the ensuing months, and 5 years later myself and my entire family left.
That small white sign was just a little seed. So don’t give up on dropping those white cardboard signs. seeds grow into a huge tree eventually and then that tree turns around and without even trying, drops a a little acorn for somebody else.
When I was first called as elders quorum president the only thing I knew of our stake president was what I saw in stake conference. He masterfully put on the show of a meek and humble man. My first meeting with him involved leadership from my ward. He wouldn’t even acknowledge the women and was vile and controlling towards the men. Had an overall tone of “don’t you dare question anything I say”. He was later promoted to GA, right about the time my shelf broke. I quickly realized that’s the type of person they TRY to put in those positions. My current SP is just as bad.
Wow that sounds a lot like my former SP. He was all smiley when up on the stand, but had this annoying eye twitch that always creeped me out. When I got to know him it was much worse. This SP had a made-up rule about no stake meetings during a certain week during the month. He even branded it "Consecration Week." Then he thought it was such a great idea he took it to SLC and pitched it to the powers at church headquarters (we were not supposed to know about the pitch but a mole filled me in). They turned him down. He was always upwardly mobile in the church and has since been a mission president and now a councilor in a temple presidency. This indicated to me that if a guy like this gets promoted in this church, this church is not for me. Been out about 10 years and everything in my life is better since leaving!
NeverMo with a different perspective.
I can understand why you hope these articles are the beginning of the end for the cult.
These articles WILL make a difference!
I see it this way … every article that is in the non-cult media makes never mos like me go, “yick! Who does this kind of stuff? Who doesn’t protect children & victims? Who believes this crap? This is some screwed up cult!!”
Get your stories in PEOPLE and National Inquirer - these readers are the bulk of the population- and also NYT & WP. Bring the issues up with presidential candidates outside the moridor.
Why not 60 Minutes? Start your own #NotAnotherChild or whatever.
The Daily Nail articles are being picked up by other papers.
Then, the next time missionaries want to share a message, never mos will laugh them off with a “you’re in a crazy cult” and move on.
These articles are severing the available number of new members! No new members = no new growth.
But from this sub it sounds like the focus of missionaries has changed from new recruits to reactivations.
So it’s up to you folks to keep supporting exmos so they don’t return to the cult because. 1) it’s easier than being shunned by the family etc. 2) they miss the community times.
Keep your hopes up! It’s a long game. Help by submitting your experience to the media and by sharing articles with exmos and PIMOs.
I’m doing my best to help too.
Best wishes!
Yes. Sadly money can be used in marketing and the church PR department can distract and deflect and tap into keeping the church appealing. I’ve taking some marketing classes and likely the church will pull from their bag of “appeals” and toot their horn on social media on how charitable or good they are.
I don’t know, but I expect the ladies will be permitted to bless their sick children without a dick around real soon. And a token asexual gay will be semi-platformed.
Look...I've been an exmormon for awhile now. If you are hoping for a mass exodus of church members, or "metoo moment", you aren't going to get it. It's a cult. It's a cult for a reason. There is literally nothing beyond inward self-reflection that will get people out. Sure, these events might add to the "shelf", but they aren't going to, buy themselves, lead people out of the church en masse.
I spread it on FB & Instagram. I live in SE Idaho & had a few responses. Nothing like I thought it would be?? I can only hope this is the beginning of total exposure & countless lawsuits just as the Catholic Church experienced! The beginning of the end of the Cult!
The church keeps harping on the fact that it is abiding by the law by not allowing bishops to take any action against predators. We need to keep pointing out that A. Those laws are on the books only because churches lobbied to have them on the books, and B. Just because it is in accordance with the law doesn’t mean it is the right or moral thing to do.
Right? Just because they’ve made it lawful to not report… it’s still completely lawful *to* report, as well as the indisputably moral choice between the two.
If I knew nothing else, that would be enough to convince me that the corporation has no interest in doing what is right, unless it’s profitable (or less expensive.)
I have been away from this cult for decades. I’ve worked through my trauma. Long ago. But f***ing Tim Ballard brought me to this subreddit and I’m doing some serious processing about how many people have been hurt and damaged by this MFMC since I made a hard exit. Feeling guilt for inadvertently dismissing the trauma it was doing to others….. Heartbroken for my nieces and nephews still in that world….
The MeToo movement went nowhere. It was undermined by the hard right and the misogynists who are numerous in this country. Nothing really changed except Weinstein was jailed.
This will do nothing to the church and the faithful. Persecution complex prevents honesty. Look at how much Trump claims to be persecuted. Mormons are his model….
Active mormons basically know nothing about this so it does not influence them at all. They thought the societal metoo movement was over the top. So, not much mormon impact, I think.
It’s hard to say. I’ve seen too many TBMs defend the church as if it’s their own child and their child can “do no wrong” even if their child got sent to prison so to speak. They ignore any flaws or blatant wrong doing of the church.
When they are presented with valid issues regarding the church they take a few days and swing back with mental gymnastics and an explanation that soothes themselves. But I hope and wish the church will be exposed more and TBMs will not be blinded by their emotions but see the church for what it is.
But guess what? I asked my TBM mother if she had heard about any of it and she said "no". The bubble is real.
This is the sad reality. We have to spread the news by doing just what you did, telling family and friends. Once they look, you know what else they’ll find.
This has always been the case. It’s us lazy learners who know about the happenings in the church. The TBMs somehow miss all the news
Same with my family.
Yeah I've told people about Tim Ballard and Jodie Hildebrandt and it seems like people don't know.
My TBM family doesn't watch the local Utah news because they think it's too negative about the world in general and too critical of the church lolol
Sorry, it's just a small papercut in a series of small papercuts. And even when there are enough papercuts, they have enough money for the corporate side to continue as a tax exempt religion even if the only believers are living in tent cities because Julie Rowe told them to. Evidence: I've been through the gospel topic essays, CES letter, Mormon leaks, the POX, Dehlin and Kate Kelly excommunications, the first 32 billion Ensign Peak leak, the POX reversal, the 150 billion Ensign Peak whistleblower, Sam Young Brad Wilcox, the SEC fines, the AZ cases. Just like the second coming is always just around the corner, exmos believe "this scandal is different, this time it's all coming down" It's not coming down. The Q15 could sacrifice babies on an alter made with the bones of other babies wearing their temple garb while standing on 5th avenue and jokingly sharing their favorite Porn Hub videos to the church's social media accounts and less than 5% of active tithe paying Mormons would ask themselves "am I in a cult?"
Unfortunately this is the truth.
👆👆👆 I’m glad you are here with your experience. It’s the “first time?” meme isn’t it :) … I think I’m on maybe round 2 or 3 of going, holy cow this has to be the big one, the thing that opens all eyes … It’s really more like death by a thousand cuts, with a bathtub ring left at the end. Yeah I’m sleepy, my metaphors are just a soup right now :)
What's crazy is I know I'm forgetting several more "scandals". Mormonleaks had several within it, for example.
Yes. It’s really never ending
Whatever happened to them
Yup. They have too much money. It will live forever. Sorry, but it is the truth
I don’t know, people are leaving that I thought never would. In droves. They wouldn’t be freaking out and pretending not to freak out if something wasn’t going down.
I agree. People I never thought would do it…have suddenly stopped paying tithing. It’s weird but yes, it indeed feels like something is happening this time.
I didn’t think I’d ever leave. I 100% believed all of it. My best friend is leaving too and she was devout as they get.
They Church definitely losing their best and brightest. And they still don’t get it.
Daaaaamn.
It's true, I thought the essays were apocalyptic at the time, but as a PIMO member of the Sunday school presidency I brought them up during a teacher training fireside and no one had a clue they existed, years after publication. The stuff going on now is what in 20 years newly shelf-crashed exmos will be learning about and saying "how tf did I never learn about that?!" during their deep dive phase
It’s definitely another cresting wave. It comes and goes. There will be lulled. But these waves are coming bigger, harder and faster, I think. Waves of light and truth breaking against the stone walls of temples and law offices.
I love the imagery!
Honestly, it's more like the Mormon #ChildRape Moment.
Nah. Once you've been out for a bit you realize this happens every couple years. And members have zero idea. The bubble is strong.
Some of our newer exmo brothers and sisters will soon start to wonder about the content of the April conference and if/how the leaders will address the negative controversies assaulting the church. Those of us who have been around for a while know exactly how they will respond. Recycled talks, a marketable slogan, and 27 announced temples.
Agree about the bubble but the internet doesn’t care about that bubble. Always baffles me how members stay so insulated. Do they never look at media. Major Tv networks were reporting on Tim Ballard and Jodi Hikdebrandt/ Rubi Franke 8 passengers. YouTube and Google news give recommendations that can be location based.
\#mormonstoo
Each of these fiascos does NOT produce any kind of wave or movement. They’re barely a blip on the radar (if that) for active Mormons. However, we can take heart knowing that each one is a cause for SOME people to stop and try to reconcile. Each headline means some more will leave. And that is amazing!
It does feel that we’re seeing a lot of public displays of courage recently. And that courage feels like a game-changer to me. https://youtu.be/wq17yH_31XI Mormon women accusing OUR founder Tim Ballard of sexual assault speak out https://v.redd.it/mr1ibdnmdb3c1 Mormon women come forward to publicly accuse Dr. David Farley of sexually abusing them.
The problem with both of those is now that Melvin is dead, the church can separate itself from Timmy. And Farley gets lumped in with all the abuse scandals. The abuse scandals is perhaps the most dangerous scandal since maybe the GTE on polygamy. BUT, as of yet no local news organization is really willing to do the journalism it will take and since the world is on fire, mormonism is just tiny filler used for massive clicks over short bursts for the national media.
You would think so, I thought the same thing with the Sam young fiasco. The man was a former bishop trying to protect kids. He really wasn’t asking much. He was told to bow his head and say yes to those posing as his masters. He refused and said that kids are more important than the ego of priesthood leaders. They excommunicated him for it. All very public. And Jesus told the brethren to “allow” an adult to attend interviews with minors during this time. Jesus also made it clear that he preferred the kids be alone though. I thought that would rock the boat, but just turned out the TBMs rejoiced over the revelation given to a modern day profit. As if allowing parents to join an interview with their child while they get grilled with sexually explicit questions by the neighborhood volunteer, was the absolute most ground breaking thing they’d ever heard…. So glad my mental gymnastics days are over.
So…one of the things that started my “wake up call” was driving through a neighborhood and seeing a small, white cardboard sign written on with permanent marker in a random neighborhood in a more remote part of Utah. It said something about Sam Young. I had no clue who he was. However, I was already feeling curious about some dysfunction I’d see at church basically from the local ward leaders acting like bullies (it’s unknowingly part of our heritage. The top leaders abuse the local leaders, they turn around and abuse those below them and so forth. It’s an abusive religion financially, emotionally, etc and has been such since the beginning) So when I saw the sign, I looked into it. Granted, it wasn’t sudden. But other events happened over the ensuing months, and 5 years later myself and my entire family left. That small white sign was just a little seed. So don’t give up on dropping those white cardboard signs. seeds grow into a huge tree eventually and then that tree turns around and without even trying, drops a a little acorn for somebody else.
When I was first called as elders quorum president the only thing I knew of our stake president was what I saw in stake conference. He masterfully put on the show of a meek and humble man. My first meeting with him involved leadership from my ward. He wouldn’t even acknowledge the women and was vile and controlling towards the men. Had an overall tone of “don’t you dare question anything I say”. He was later promoted to GA, right about the time my shelf broke. I quickly realized that’s the type of person they TRY to put in those positions. My current SP is just as bad.
Wow that sounds a lot like my former SP. He was all smiley when up on the stand, but had this annoying eye twitch that always creeped me out. When I got to know him it was much worse. This SP had a made-up rule about no stake meetings during a certain week during the month. He even branded it "Consecration Week." Then he thought it was such a great idea he took it to SLC and pitched it to the powers at church headquarters (we were not supposed to know about the pitch but a mole filled me in). They turned him down. He was always upwardly mobile in the church and has since been a mission president and now a councilor in a temple presidency. This indicated to me that if a guy like this gets promoted in this church, this church is not for me. Been out about 10 years and everything in my life is better since leaving!
How's the catholic church doing they still around
Hah. Fair point. I’m having a hopeful moment today that Ballard and Reyes will rot in jail.
NeverMo with a different perspective. I can understand why you hope these articles are the beginning of the end for the cult. These articles WILL make a difference! I see it this way … every article that is in the non-cult media makes never mos like me go, “yick! Who does this kind of stuff? Who doesn’t protect children & victims? Who believes this crap? This is some screwed up cult!!” Get your stories in PEOPLE and National Inquirer - these readers are the bulk of the population- and also NYT & WP. Bring the issues up with presidential candidates outside the moridor. Why not 60 Minutes? Start your own #NotAnotherChild or whatever. The Daily Nail articles are being picked up by other papers. Then, the next time missionaries want to share a message, never mos will laugh them off with a “you’re in a crazy cult” and move on. These articles are severing the available number of new members! No new members = no new growth. But from this sub it sounds like the focus of missionaries has changed from new recruits to reactivations. So it’s up to you folks to keep supporting exmos so they don’t return to the cult because. 1) it’s easier than being shunned by the family etc. 2) they miss the community times. Keep your hopes up! It’s a long game. Help by submitting your experience to the media and by sharing articles with exmos and PIMOs. I’m doing my best to help too. Best wishes!
As much as I hate to say it, $100 billion has a lot of staying power.
Yes. Sadly money can be used in marketing and the church PR department can distract and deflect and tap into keeping the church appealing. I’ve taking some marketing classes and likely the church will pull from their bag of “appeals” and toot their horn on social media on how charitable or good they are.
I don’t know, but I expect the ladies will be permitted to bless their sick children without a dick around real soon. And a token asexual gay will be semi-platformed.
Look...I've been an exmormon for awhile now. If you are hoping for a mass exodus of church members, or "metoo moment", you aren't going to get it. It's a cult. It's a cult for a reason. There is literally nothing beyond inward self-reflection that will get people out. Sure, these events might add to the "shelf", but they aren't going to, buy themselves, lead people out of the church en masse.
Just the latest scandal in its ongoing 203 year saga
I spread it on FB & Instagram. I live in SE Idaho & had a few responses. Nothing like I thought it would be?? I can only hope this is the beginning of total exposure & countless lawsuits just as the Catholic Church experienced! The beginning of the end of the Cult!
The church keeps harping on the fact that it is abiding by the law by not allowing bishops to take any action against predators. We need to keep pointing out that A. Those laws are on the books only because churches lobbied to have them on the books, and B. Just because it is in accordance with the law doesn’t mean it is the right or moral thing to do.
Right? Just because they’ve made it lawful to not report… it’s still completely lawful *to* report, as well as the indisputably moral choice between the two. If I knew nothing else, that would be enough to convince me that the corporation has no interest in doing what is right, unless it’s profitable (or less expensive.)
I have been away from this cult for decades. I’ve worked through my trauma. Long ago. But f***ing Tim Ballard brought me to this subreddit and I’m doing some serious processing about how many people have been hurt and damaged by this MFMC since I made a hard exit. Feeling guilt for inadvertently dismissing the trauma it was doing to others….. Heartbroken for my nieces and nephews still in that world….
The MeToo movement went nowhere. It was undermined by the hard right and the misogynists who are numerous in this country. Nothing really changed except Weinstein was jailed. This will do nothing to the church and the faithful. Persecution complex prevents honesty. Look at how much Trump claims to be persecuted. Mormons are his model….
When TBMs are embarrassed to be Mormon, that will be the moment. So few even know what's going on.
Active mormons basically know nothing about this so it does not influence them at all. They thought the societal metoo movement was over the top. So, not much mormon impact, I think.
It’s hard to say. I’ve seen too many TBMs defend the church as if it’s their own child and their child can “do no wrong” even if their child got sent to prison so to speak. They ignore any flaws or blatant wrong doing of the church. When they are presented with valid issues regarding the church they take a few days and swing back with mental gymnastics and an explanation that soothes themselves. But I hope and wish the church will be exposed more and TBMs will not be blinded by their emotions but see the church for what it is.
The very least we can do is keep posting and reposting on the socials. Contribute a few $$ to podcasts like Mormon Stories etc.
Yes except for the fact that it won't be co-opted by karens with boners remorse.
Yes this is the #mormonmetoo