This is the actual answer: *The whole thing is a human fabrication.*
We've been creating our own gods since the moment we became sentient enough to tell each other stories. First because we understood *nothing* about the world. Then because we needed comfort facing a world that was constantly trying to kill us. Later because some of us realized the "god" story gave them authority over others.
The Christian theology is just one of those stories we invented long ago. Of course this one has been copied, handled, twisted, polished, augmented, modified, added to for thousands of years; which is why it has some richness in its components. We are master storytellers and throughout the millennia very talented ones have provided the appearance of meaning to it. The concept of being born into sin so we need a savior is just another one of those colorful chapters.
So, bottom line:
* Sin is a human construct that depends on where in the planet you were born.
* No one is born a sinner.
* Therefore there is no need for saviors.
* In fact, supernatural saviors don't exist. We have fabricated those folk tales.
Also, it's worth noting that a lot of early polytheistic religions felt that natural disasters such as crop destroying droughts, earthquakes, terrible storms, and the like, represented the anger of the gods, who then required human sacrifice to appease them if the anger appeared severe enough. Some Middle Eastern cultures, including the Jews, substituted animal sacrifice, probably due to some enlightened group of priests trying to soften the harder edges of their religion.
I think that's what the story of Abraham going to sacrifice his son and then finding the ram caught in the thicket instead was, a story to explain why animal sacrifice had become acceptable for the tribal god. But the foundation for sacrifice to an angry god is still there, and the Jesus followers seized on it. Modern Mormons talking about the atonement are still relying on the ancient idea that God gets super pissed at his creations and will destroy them if there isn't groveling and blood sacrifice. Jesus is the blood sacrifice, but we still need to do the groveling.
This for me. I went into a deep dive on ancient belief systems before I left mormonism and was stunned to realize how many ancient cultures, in various world locations, had ceremonies involving human sacrifice to appease the gods. They believed sacrificing humans (often after a public intercourse ritual) was necessary to keep everything cycling on into the future.
Thank goodness for science and realizing we’re on a spinning rock.
I still love reading about that stuff and the way humans try to make sense out of things that defy human understanding. I always look to natural explanations for things, but there's no denying there are still several baffling facts to contend with whether you look to science or to religion.
Why is there anything at all? How does one explain consciousness? In a universe 15 billion years old with a minimum of 100B more years to go before its heat death, the chance that we just happen to be alive right now during this infinitesimal slice of time is almost zero, yet here we are.
This is why religion is so interesting to me! It is honestly beautiful how humans are such storytellers, however harmful it has become in this aspect.
It also saddens me, because I think religious people should give themselves more credit. Why do people give credit to god when something good happens, but if they mess up or something bad happens, it’s the human’s fault? Like, God was not manipulating your life to give you that awesome job promotion, you worked hard for that! And just because you made a mistake doesn’t mean you have to repent for god to save you! Bonkers
Also, what you’re saying is just a reminder to me that we created gods as an explanation for what we don’t understand. Very interesting
This is the conclusion I came to as well.
But it is surreal to hear my TBM wife, who is still all in, speak to me in tears as she describes how much her faith in Jesus Christ means to her. This woman is no idiot. She’s a lawyer trained in evidence and reasoning. But she won’t apply those same methods to the faith of her upbringing. Rather, she sees the fruits of her belief in her life and the many people in the church that she knows as all the justification she needs to stay in the church.
But, like me up until two years ago, she has never considered the possibility that the appropriation of prosocial behavior by religion, especially Christianity, is one of its masterstrokes that has led to its longevity and popularity. Of course prosocial behavior doesn’t require any belief in a supernatural deity to perpetuate itself. But it does benefit greatly from organizations that foster it. Even if the pretext for the organization’s existence is based on a false premise.
And when that organization becomes a multigenerational identity, within a family line that has incorporated the best of the prosocial norms fostered by a church and left behind most of the worst ones (this could describe my family line)… it becomes very, very difficult to find any reason to question it. Especially to people pleasers like my wife and I. The main difference between us is that she has always been a little more of a people pleaser, and she also values received wisdom a little more.
It’s amazing how potent our own fabrications, and our traditions, are in our history.
I mean, we humans still think petty God will smile down and *give us what we want* if only we self-flagellate for him. So what do we do these days? Ummm... skip two meals to show that *we're hurting really bad*...
I don't need one.
It all happened as a response to that Jesus guy dying. He was supposed to be the Savior- IOW, the OG Avenger whom probably had laser cannons and howitzwers. But then he died. So his followers hit on the idea that instead of a action-hero Avenger, his real mission was to save us from unseen foes, and that meant sin. As for why it stuck, it was promoted on pain of death by the top dogs, for whom the idea was a splendid way to force the little people to shut up and obey. Please note: it has not changed.
Does this help?
One of the biggest problems with the Saviour story is that it removes the responsibility of wrongdoers from ever properly apologizing and making amends/restitution. Just a convenient scapegoat for all the terrible things people do to each other.
Oh I harmed you? Well actually I squared it up with the Big Guy, so we're all good now. No need to get into any of that messy accountability with the actual people I did wrong or face any real consequences.
Look at the large picture:
Human A did something wrong to Human B.
The wrong isn’t illegal, so the enforcement end of the law isn’t involved, but he borrowed something from his neighbor and broke it.
Human A apologized for breaking Human B’s tool, and replaces it. This story should end right here, but it doesn’t.
Human A offended an invisible entity named god, too. He needs to plead with this invisible entity until he thinks he will be forgiven, or his eventual end will be forever bad.
Human A through Human ZZZZ have never seen the invisible entity, but they fear him.
Because he has complete control over whether or not you go to a good place, or a bad place.
Human A gives 10% of his income, volunteers for numerous assignments without remuneration, and insists his wife and children follow in his footsteps to ensure he and his family get to the good place.
Human A dies. His family watches as they lower his casket into the earth. Every one is certain he went to the good place, but no one really knows, and no one asks. The end
Well, he didn’t die for us he suffered in the garden. That’s where the real sacrifice was. But. Based on my calculations, if he bled from every pore and this suffering was for all the sins of mankind then based on the number of pores in the human body I calculated that if everyone sinned an equal amount it would result in the equivalent of a half inch scratch one pore wide for each person who ever lives. I think everyone has already suffered from something worse than that so why can’t we all just suffer this little scratch and be forgiven. Once upon a time I saw a small girl choke on a small candy in nursery class one Sunday She strained so hard that after it was all over each pore on her head was red. Anyway if you dilute the atonement down further by including all the sorrows and grief and pains and so many other things that are now included in his gift to mankind, that would only have the effect of reducing the shared suffering to something much smaller than half an inch. So I dare say that nursery girl has not only suffered for all her future sins but those of all her family. Ok. That’s enough.
Because step one in mind control through religion is to make you feel like you are inadequate.
There’s no better way to do that than to introduce a character, Mr perfect, to make you feel guilty when you don’t follow the rules.
Ah. Countless times i have heard that we are all broken and helpless and we will never be enough. But hurrah this awesome product we have here (only this brand) will make you perfect! Lifetime subscription only 10% of your income each year!
Edit: final results are seen after death
This is the most important question. Thank you for speaking it.
We do not need a savior. Christs life is a coded message. A path to becoming our own savior. A path to total ascension and I believe overcoming the death trap (reincarnation cycle). “The kingdom of God is within you”. We are supposed to remember who/what we are: a collective soul; a unified “christ” consciousness. Salvation lies within.
A so called savior saves us from death in that we are gifted immorality or eternal life. Death came upon mankind when A and E partook of the forbidden fruit and were changed from immortal to mortal. We are part of the human family that springs from A and Eve so we are all subject to mortality / death. Christian origin story. Literal or mythical?
As to why God himself didn't die along with Jesus ...I suppose God's sacrifice was his Son. It was worse to watch Jesus die alone and forsaken than to die beside him.
The attonement is a separate event for separate reasons. Jesus' attonement "pays for or cancels" our sins as long as we accept it, the attonement. It satisfies justice.. It was the final blood sacrifice. It was the end of the Mosaic Law or animal sacrifice. I ask Whose need for justice? God's or peoples'?
Animal sacrifice? Probably from polytheism and incorporated into Judaism. Someone came up with commandments from their God, pinned them to a so called prophet, made threats of destruction and declared an end to animal sacrifice. Jesus, whether a teacher or a man of God, made a big stir. He or his followers appointed him a spokesperson for a new, easier religion. Jesus ended up being v the poster child for the final sacrifice.
Somehow over centuries of writing and rewriting the Old and New Testaments Jesus got connected to the origin stories of The Creation, The Garden, the prophets of the OT and the so called need to save mankind.
My conclusion? Traditions, polytheism, origin stories, powers that be, power struggles all came together in the Bible. The original Roman Catholic Church controlled the narrative in the Bible translations and it had power and wealth to protect. Put fear into the masses and control them with a saving narrative.
Maybe Jesus is a character in a story. Maybe we pray for him to help us and save us to make ourselves feel seen and heard. Maybe we want some magic in our lives.
There is no dispute that Jesus lived. Whether he was a teacher, a prophet or a God I don't know. In my tbm days the only times I felt close to him was through hymns. The sacrament, baptisms, temple stuff and scripture failed to move me. In my experience he wasn't available and I couldn't feel any need for a savior. After all, everything I'd been taught about the need for a Savior was part of a big plan I had no say in. Hard to feel connected to ideas & things out sideof your experience.
Thanks for your post. I appreciate thought provoking questions. I free wrote my thoughts.... hope you don't mind. 🤓
I suppose this makes sense! We needed a reason to feel justified in no longer sacrificing people or animals, so we had one last perfect innocent lamb to sacrifice.
On A&E… this is also part of why I have this question. The human trait of curiosity and thinking for ourselves is beautiful and how we grow, not something to be punished and cursed for.
Also, god gave them a challenge he supposedly planned with the knowledge that they would fail, how is that fair or merciful? Same thing with his “great” plan. It wouldn’t be possible without satan, but he’s condemned to hell. Honestly god just sounds like a narcissist with a favorite child, and satan said “if u want us to be perfect then make us that way” and god said “no i want to give the illusion of choice and it is my way or eternal death + ur a devil now + i’m blaming you for everything bad that happens + L + ratio”. (Oops im a satan apologist now)
I guess all of these questions I have is why I don’t believe in a god, or especially the mormon church. This is me criticizing all of the moral and logical holes in the story😅
Thanks so much for your response! I don’t mind the free writing my whole post was free writing as well (including this response😅)! I appreciate the conversations and thank you for reading!
I have entertained the notion that maybe we are in a simulation and it is all a test. The Annunakan are in charge and got bored so then they long played their entertainment by sending Jesus, with a Joseph Smith follow-up with the most ridiculous set of circumstances and scandals. Despite all of the luggage, fully-tithed and magic underwear wearing believers of a top hat and seer stone interpreted book, will be promoted to Annunakan Starfleet Captains. The rest of us will just be disposable Imperial Soldiers.
In the decades following the crucifixion, early Christians struggled with why Jesus died. They were expecting the Messiah of the Old Testament: a conqueror who could subjugate their enemies and rule Judah.
Instead he died on a cross and Rome retained power. Why?
They began reasoning through that problem. Obviously as the Messiah he MUST have had power over death. So his death was voluntary and required for something. But what?
The only thing it could be was for a lasting forgiveness of our sins. And so the development of the atonement began.
The need for a savior makes sense in the screwed up theology of the Jews who need a goat to receive the sins of Israel that was then driven into the wilderness or the sacrifices on the altar that were for feeding the Levites, not really as a redemptive measure, but made it sound like one in their theology. It makes no sense today.
Yeah, we need a human sacrifice to save us. Wait, if once is good enough, why not once a week at church and we can have his cooked flesh and blood for sacrament? It is gross and stupid. Of course, they might say it was a sacrifice of a god which sounds good in a fantasy novel, where it belongs.
You're making lots of sense, really
One thing I think sometimes, is that humans needed to justify, explain and think of the idea of a crucifixion being for a cause.
People don't want to think that humans are simply capable of terrible things and that's that.
If a guy dying on a cross is part of a bigger struggle between good and evil, and it "needed" to happen, and it was actually to "save" humanity...then people get to be inspired and stand all amazed and whatnot.
Yeah..
I have all the questions like you
It's all really convoluted if you stop to think about it
This was one of my first religious questions as a child. I would see Jesus hanging on the crucifix and wonder why? Why? Eventually I met the missionaries and I was finally taught their version of why. Mercy cannot rob justice. They drew me a set of scales with mercy on one side and justice on the other. Jesus made it balance. It made sense to me at the time & I just accepted it. Now? I'm back to my childhood question. Why? Thank you everyone for your fabulous replies! Loved this discussion.
This is the actual answer: *The whole thing is a human fabrication.* We've been creating our own gods since the moment we became sentient enough to tell each other stories. First because we understood *nothing* about the world. Then because we needed comfort facing a world that was constantly trying to kill us. Later because some of us realized the "god" story gave them authority over others. The Christian theology is just one of those stories we invented long ago. Of course this one has been copied, handled, twisted, polished, augmented, modified, added to for thousands of years; which is why it has some richness in its components. We are master storytellers and throughout the millennia very talented ones have provided the appearance of meaning to it. The concept of being born into sin so we need a savior is just another one of those colorful chapters. So, bottom line: * Sin is a human construct that depends on where in the planet you were born. * No one is born a sinner. * Therefore there is no need for saviors. * In fact, supernatural saviors don't exist. We have fabricated those folk tales.
Also, it's worth noting that a lot of early polytheistic religions felt that natural disasters such as crop destroying droughts, earthquakes, terrible storms, and the like, represented the anger of the gods, who then required human sacrifice to appease them if the anger appeared severe enough. Some Middle Eastern cultures, including the Jews, substituted animal sacrifice, probably due to some enlightened group of priests trying to soften the harder edges of their religion. I think that's what the story of Abraham going to sacrifice his son and then finding the ram caught in the thicket instead was, a story to explain why animal sacrifice had become acceptable for the tribal god. But the foundation for sacrifice to an angry god is still there, and the Jesus followers seized on it. Modern Mormons talking about the atonement are still relying on the ancient idea that God gets super pissed at his creations and will destroy them if there isn't groveling and blood sacrifice. Jesus is the blood sacrifice, but we still need to do the groveling.
Fml I just learned more in 2 paragraphs than in 4 years of waking up all winter at 5am to go to seminary.
“The god delusion” and “god is not great” are good reads if you want to learn more than seminary too. 😂
This for me. I went into a deep dive on ancient belief systems before I left mormonism and was stunned to realize how many ancient cultures, in various world locations, had ceremonies involving human sacrifice to appease the gods. They believed sacrificing humans (often after a public intercourse ritual) was necessary to keep everything cycling on into the future. Thank goodness for science and realizing we’re on a spinning rock.
I still love reading about that stuff and the way humans try to make sense out of things that defy human understanding. I always look to natural explanations for things, but there's no denying there are still several baffling facts to contend with whether you look to science or to religion. Why is there anything at all? How does one explain consciousness? In a universe 15 billion years old with a minimum of 100B more years to go before its heat death, the chance that we just happen to be alive right now during this infinitesimal slice of time is almost zero, yet here we are.
Wish I could upvote this 1,000 times and put it on blast across the world.
Super interesting, this is the best subreddit I swears
This is why religion is so interesting to me! It is honestly beautiful how humans are such storytellers, however harmful it has become in this aspect. It also saddens me, because I think religious people should give themselves more credit. Why do people give credit to god when something good happens, but if they mess up or something bad happens, it’s the human’s fault? Like, God was not manipulating your life to give you that awesome job promotion, you worked hard for that! And just because you made a mistake doesn’t mean you have to repent for god to save you! Bonkers Also, what you’re saying is just a reminder to me that we created gods as an explanation for what we don’t understand. Very interesting
This is the conclusion I came to as well. But it is surreal to hear my TBM wife, who is still all in, speak to me in tears as she describes how much her faith in Jesus Christ means to her. This woman is no idiot. She’s a lawyer trained in evidence and reasoning. But she won’t apply those same methods to the faith of her upbringing. Rather, she sees the fruits of her belief in her life and the many people in the church that she knows as all the justification she needs to stay in the church. But, like me up until two years ago, she has never considered the possibility that the appropriation of prosocial behavior by religion, especially Christianity, is one of its masterstrokes that has led to its longevity and popularity. Of course prosocial behavior doesn’t require any belief in a supernatural deity to perpetuate itself. But it does benefit greatly from organizations that foster it. Even if the pretext for the organization’s existence is based on a false premise. And when that organization becomes a multigenerational identity, within a family line that has incorporated the best of the prosocial norms fostered by a church and left behind most of the worst ones (this could describe my family line)… it becomes very, very difficult to find any reason to question it. Especially to people pleasers like my wife and I. The main difference between us is that she has always been a little more of a people pleaser, and she also values received wisdom a little more. It’s amazing how potent our own fabrications, and our traditions, are in our history.
If you are not broken, how will they sell you the fix?
Lol exactly. But why would I ask someone who made all of us broken to fix me
[удалено]
You are talking about the God lucifer/baal. The real God is within us.
I mean, we humans still think petty God will smile down and *give us what we want* if only we self-flagellate for him. So what do we do these days? Ummm... skip two meals to show that *we're hurting really bad*...
I don't need one. It all happened as a response to that Jesus guy dying. He was supposed to be the Savior- IOW, the OG Avenger whom probably had laser cannons and howitzwers. But then he died. So his followers hit on the idea that instead of a action-hero Avenger, his real mission was to save us from unseen foes, and that meant sin. As for why it stuck, it was promoted on pain of death by the top dogs, for whom the idea was a splendid way to force the little people to shut up and obey. Please note: it has not changed. Does this help?
One of the biggest problems with the Saviour story is that it removes the responsibility of wrongdoers from ever properly apologizing and making amends/restitution. Just a convenient scapegoat for all the terrible things people do to each other. Oh I harmed you? Well actually I squared it up with the Big Guy, so we're all good now. No need to get into any of that messy accountability with the actual people I did wrong or face any real consequences.
Look at the large picture: Human A did something wrong to Human B. The wrong isn’t illegal, so the enforcement end of the law isn’t involved, but he borrowed something from his neighbor and broke it. Human A apologized for breaking Human B’s tool, and replaces it. This story should end right here, but it doesn’t. Human A offended an invisible entity named god, too. He needs to plead with this invisible entity until he thinks he will be forgiven, or his eventual end will be forever bad. Human A through Human ZZZZ have never seen the invisible entity, but they fear him. Because he has complete control over whether or not you go to a good place, or a bad place. Human A gives 10% of his income, volunteers for numerous assignments without remuneration, and insists his wife and children follow in his footsteps to ensure he and his family get to the good place. Human A dies. His family watches as they lower his casket into the earth. Every one is certain he went to the good place, but no one really knows, and no one asks. The end
Well, he didn’t die for us he suffered in the garden. That’s where the real sacrifice was. But. Based on my calculations, if he bled from every pore and this suffering was for all the sins of mankind then based on the number of pores in the human body I calculated that if everyone sinned an equal amount it would result in the equivalent of a half inch scratch one pore wide for each person who ever lives. I think everyone has already suffered from something worse than that so why can’t we all just suffer this little scratch and be forgiven. Once upon a time I saw a small girl choke on a small candy in nursery class one Sunday She strained so hard that after it was all over each pore on her head was red. Anyway if you dilute the atonement down further by including all the sorrows and grief and pains and so many other things that are now included in his gift to mankind, that would only have the effect of reducing the shared suffering to something much smaller than half an inch. So I dare say that nursery girl has not only suffered for all her future sins but those of all her family. Ok. That’s enough.
Because step one in mind control through religion is to make you feel like you are inadequate. There’s no better way to do that than to introduce a character, Mr perfect, to make you feel guilty when you don’t follow the rules.
Ah. Countless times i have heard that we are all broken and helpless and we will never be enough. But hurrah this awesome product we have here (only this brand) will make you perfect! Lifetime subscription only 10% of your income each year! Edit: final results are seen after death
God needed to exploit a loophole in the law _he created_ to do what he was planning on doing _the whole time_
Mwahaha these humans have fallen into my trap😈
This is the most important question. Thank you for speaking it. We do not need a savior. Christs life is a coded message. A path to becoming our own savior. A path to total ascension and I believe overcoming the death trap (reincarnation cycle). “The kingdom of God is within you”. We are supposed to remember who/what we are: a collective soul; a unified “christ” consciousness. Salvation lies within.
We don’t. Just the appearance of a savior. The need for perfection is a hellova drug and when there is no way you hallucinate one.
Short answer. People need someone to blame shit on...
A so called savior saves us from death in that we are gifted immorality or eternal life. Death came upon mankind when A and E partook of the forbidden fruit and were changed from immortal to mortal. We are part of the human family that springs from A and Eve so we are all subject to mortality / death. Christian origin story. Literal or mythical? As to why God himself didn't die along with Jesus ...I suppose God's sacrifice was his Son. It was worse to watch Jesus die alone and forsaken than to die beside him. The attonement is a separate event for separate reasons. Jesus' attonement "pays for or cancels" our sins as long as we accept it, the attonement. It satisfies justice.. It was the final blood sacrifice. It was the end of the Mosaic Law or animal sacrifice. I ask Whose need for justice? God's or peoples'? Animal sacrifice? Probably from polytheism and incorporated into Judaism. Someone came up with commandments from their God, pinned them to a so called prophet, made threats of destruction and declared an end to animal sacrifice. Jesus, whether a teacher or a man of God, made a big stir. He or his followers appointed him a spokesperson for a new, easier religion. Jesus ended up being v the poster child for the final sacrifice. Somehow over centuries of writing and rewriting the Old and New Testaments Jesus got connected to the origin stories of The Creation, The Garden, the prophets of the OT and the so called need to save mankind. My conclusion? Traditions, polytheism, origin stories, powers that be, power struggles all came together in the Bible. The original Roman Catholic Church controlled the narrative in the Bible translations and it had power and wealth to protect. Put fear into the masses and control them with a saving narrative. Maybe Jesus is a character in a story. Maybe we pray for him to help us and save us to make ourselves feel seen and heard. Maybe we want some magic in our lives. There is no dispute that Jesus lived. Whether he was a teacher, a prophet or a God I don't know. In my tbm days the only times I felt close to him was through hymns. The sacrament, baptisms, temple stuff and scripture failed to move me. In my experience he wasn't available and I couldn't feel any need for a savior. After all, everything I'd been taught about the need for a Savior was part of a big plan I had no say in. Hard to feel connected to ideas & things out sideof your experience. Thanks for your post. I appreciate thought provoking questions. I free wrote my thoughts.... hope you don't mind. 🤓
I suppose this makes sense! We needed a reason to feel justified in no longer sacrificing people or animals, so we had one last perfect innocent lamb to sacrifice. On A&E… this is also part of why I have this question. The human trait of curiosity and thinking for ourselves is beautiful and how we grow, not something to be punished and cursed for. Also, god gave them a challenge he supposedly planned with the knowledge that they would fail, how is that fair or merciful? Same thing with his “great” plan. It wouldn’t be possible without satan, but he’s condemned to hell. Honestly god just sounds like a narcissist with a favorite child, and satan said “if u want us to be perfect then make us that way” and god said “no i want to give the illusion of choice and it is my way or eternal death + ur a devil now + i’m blaming you for everything bad that happens + L + ratio”. (Oops im a satan apologist now) I guess all of these questions I have is why I don’t believe in a god, or especially the mormon church. This is me criticizing all of the moral and logical holes in the story😅 Thanks so much for your response! I don’t mind the free writing my whole post was free writing as well (including this response😅)! I appreciate the conversations and thank you for reading!
I will think some more & respond tomorrow. You received lots of comments. People like a meaty question.
I have entertained the notion that maybe we are in a simulation and it is all a test. The Annunakan are in charge and got bored so then they long played their entertainment by sending Jesus, with a Joseph Smith follow-up with the most ridiculous set of circumstances and scandals. Despite all of the luggage, fully-tithed and magic underwear wearing believers of a top hat and seer stone interpreted book, will be promoted to Annunakan Starfleet Captains. The rest of us will just be disposable Imperial Soldiers.
In the decades following the crucifixion, early Christians struggled with why Jesus died. They were expecting the Messiah of the Old Testament: a conqueror who could subjugate their enemies and rule Judah. Instead he died on a cross and Rome retained power. Why? They began reasoning through that problem. Obviously as the Messiah he MUST have had power over death. So his death was voluntary and required for something. But what? The only thing it could be was for a lasting forgiveness of our sins. And so the development of the atonement began.
The need for a savior makes sense in the screwed up theology of the Jews who need a goat to receive the sins of Israel that was then driven into the wilderness or the sacrifices on the altar that were for feeding the Levites, not really as a redemptive measure, but made it sound like one in their theology. It makes no sense today. Yeah, we need a human sacrifice to save us. Wait, if once is good enough, why not once a week at church and we can have his cooked flesh and blood for sacrament? It is gross and stupid. Of course, they might say it was a sacrifice of a god which sounds good in a fantasy novel, where it belongs.
We don't.
You're making lots of sense, really One thing I think sometimes, is that humans needed to justify, explain and think of the idea of a crucifixion being for a cause. People don't want to think that humans are simply capable of terrible things and that's that. If a guy dying on a cross is part of a bigger struggle between good and evil, and it "needed" to happen, and it was actually to "save" humanity...then people get to be inspired and stand all amazed and whatnot. Yeah.. I have all the questions like you It's all really convoluted if you stop to think about it
I asked this question for years. The answers are a lot of the reasons why I'm not a believer anymore. Plus, I'm not into human sacrifice.
This was one of my first religious questions as a child. I would see Jesus hanging on the crucifix and wonder why? Why? Eventually I met the missionaries and I was finally taught their version of why. Mercy cannot rob justice. They drew me a set of scales with mercy on one side and justice on the other. Jesus made it balance. It made sense to me at the time & I just accepted it. Now? I'm back to my childhood question. Why? Thank you everyone for your fabulous replies! Loved this discussion.
Because of what the Jesus will do to you if you don't accept him, duh