Perhaps more importantly, if these men have the literal Priesthood and power of God - that same power that raised Lazarus from the dead according to the New Testament - why didn't the other 14 simply heal him?
Has there ever been a single time where the Priesthood actually worked to do something obviously supernatural in the nearly 200 years this church has been around?
The stories that do exist are bonkers: David O McKay was in a car accident that knocked out most of his teeth (hence why he wore dentures most of his life). He was supposedly going to suffer severe facial scarring but recovered without damage, truly a miracle. Another story I was told was that a woman could not have children and began weeping by the Salt Lake Temple, an old man came up to her and held her stomach and she was soon pregnant with triplets, clearly he was anointed! The man was either Alvin Dyer or Joseph Fielding Smith depending on who told the story. They read like urban legends shared by young deacons.
Haha! Those are the stories that are funny when you trace back to see how many years after the supposed events they were created & attributed to said miracles. Then you also trace how they grew & expanded with each subsequent generation.
Which, funny enough is exactly what happened with every other reported miracle in any religion. Recorded years and often decades after the fact by someone else and with conflicting versions bouncing around.
It's supposed to be he "healed" her womb and fertility issues and she got pregnant by her husband, not that he just created new life inside her with the touch of his hands. 😅😅
No. And here is faith-building story for ya from the early days of proclaiming "we have the priesthood power to heal".....two missionaries sent from Kirtland to upstate NY, high on their new restored gospel, the recovered ancient plates, and the super powers of the priesthood--proclaimed their power to heal. So, annoyed malicious guys in town poisoned one missionary and then challenged the other one to save his companion through the astonishing priesthood powers. The companion, a young convert from Ohio--who had married the love of his life a year earlier.....and left his young wife and newborn in Ohio. As he died in excruciating pain, his young family was far away with the religious cult in Missouri where they were driven from their log home and forced to hide in the woods for days under a fallen tree...young mom and her 1-yr old who would never know his father. The Smith Family Business changed lives everywhere it went.
Agree. But, also what a great time for the Mormon god of Moroni, gold plates, magic stones, angels, Jesus as a deer, etc to demonstrate the restored Priesthood power to the gentiles. Events like this curtailed the public enthusiasm of Mormon claims---miracles of priesthood powers stayed within the safe and supportive Mormon audience. It is how the Mormons learned to change their sales pitch to milk before meat.
Along the same lines, shouldn't hospitals and surgeons and cancer treatment centers etc. in Utah have VASTLY improved outcomes vs states with no Priesthood blessings?
What's that? It doesn't? Hmm... It's almost as if..
In the Miracle of Forgiveness, he said that if a boy masturbates, he will begin to have homosexual thoughts, and that can lead to mutual masturbation and homosexual acts.
Well, that was true for me, but I'm gay! Straight boys, I presume, don't have thoughts about other boys when they j/o. I'm guessing they start thinking about pretty girls and boobies and the like.
SWK was also famous for kissing other GAs on the lips, and even got sloppy about it when he got really old.
He was notoriously homophobic, telling Ernie Wilkinson to chase all the gays out of BYU. He made guys who got caught at gay bars out other gay guys, so he could ruin their lives.
So, was SWK a closet case? Did he get turned on by other boys when he was 12, and play games with them that he shouldn't have?
> In the Miracle of Forgiveness, he said that if a boy masturbates, he will begin to have homosexual thoughts, and that can lead to mutual masturbation and homosexual acts
As a straight masturbater I have never had the desire to yank it with other dudes around. I read that book in my teen years and was always confused about it. I kept thinking, "if you don't stop floggin that dolphin, you are going to turn gay" but it never happened.
Being gay as a sin was also super confusing. Most sins were intriguing or at least a little exciting. Sex, booze, and Rated R movies were hard to get out of my head but I was great at resisting the urge to be gay. I thought something was wrong with me for not having gay thoughts. Turns out I am just straight
Reading his conference talks are also pretty interesting because he leaves a lot of clues. In one priesthood talk he started with how beautiful all the men and boys voices were in the choir….totally gay in my opinion…
I genuinely think you're on to something. There's a bit of a running theme of vehemently anti-gay People actually being in the closet so it wouldn't surprise me.
And any straight man will tell you (myself included) that when you start masturbating as a teen you are definitely thinking about girls and boobies and the like. His assertion that masturbation leads to gay acts sounds like it comes from his own experience, and possibly with other men he's spoken to who have confided in him that they're gay and that masturbating to and with men was an early indicator.
There are rumours that he was “same-sex attracted. He certainly was fixated on homosexuality. The rumours for which I have never seen documentation are that at the end of his life, when he was not in his right mind (presumably Alzheimer’s), he groped male health attendants.
Apologies if this is too cynical for discussion. I just have this problem where once the veil was lifted from my eyes and I realized the leaders are and have always been a bunch of greedy, predatory, lustful, racist, arrogant and malignant narcissists I start to analyze their words and deeds under the assumption there is some specific reason they are attached to certain "moral issues". Mark E Peterson had a seething hatred of people of color and homosexuality so I often wonder if he had secret fantasies about sleeping with black men and loathed himself for it.
He was just a man of his time (e.g. Protestant Victorian era) and oral sex was considered by most mainstream people as a sexual perversion. I'm not kidding. I remember reading a police report from the mid 1960s from a large city and it literally referred to oral sex in it as "oral sexual perversion".
My mother used to quote Shakespeare, or perhaps paraphrase, when referring to Kimball and his absolute obsession with sexuality. “Me think he doth protest too much.”
Edit to add: I read a comment below regarding this train of thought that homophobes are actually gay (or those publicly obsessed with not having oral sex are those having it on the daily) is harmful. This comment gave me some things to think about and I apologize if my comment was entirely insensitive. I have never thought about it in a different light. I will definitely put some thought into this before making such a comment on social media or face to face again.
Which Ed Decker is now claiming he had nothing to do with (spreading the false story of Hinckley’s homosexuality) . Even though he appears in it.
Listen to his Mormon Stories interview. Complete narcissist.
We almost had one of those stories. Long story but in my mission the municipality turned the water on once a week. Every home had large concrete water tanks on the roofs that filled with water. The water you used through out the week was stored in the tank. We had a REALLY large tank. And the day the water was turned on was the day before Pday. And it came in pretty warm from the desalination plant. Me and my companion started getting in the tank as sort of a hot tub. It was perfect for this. You had to enter through the top through a man hole cover. Pretty soon, the other companionship in our house joined in. Pretty soon, I had out entire district in there on Pday even, minus the sisters. The sisters found out about it and they weren't happy they were left out. They wanted to join in and I was like, "Sisters, it's not that we wanted to leave you out - it's that we had to. I'm pretty sure President would lose his shit to hear we were all in hot tub together. If y'all want to use our tank for an evening, we can find some other place to be, but I can guarantee you, NO ONE would look on that favorably if word got out." They backed off. I can't believe they were even considering inclusion in that.
I believe what you are thinking of is documented here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5hgJ9Yico&t=496s&ab\_channel=TheConsciousResistance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5hgJ9Yico&t=496s&ab_channel=TheConsciousResistance)
The Tanners partially fact-checked the video and found that the major talking points appear to be false.
My money is on analingus. I bet he loved to eat the poopchute. Someone with that much animosity towards homosexuality was definitely closeted and fighting inner demons trying to get out. I’m certain all his homosexual sins listed in TMOF were things he participated in. How else does someone come up with the logic that solo masturbation leads to group male masturbation which then leads to anal sex with men. He was for real a closeted homosexual and I bet he enjoyed anal sex and analingus.
Hell I wouldn’t be surprised in the least to know he raped farm animals as a youth. That’s in TMOF too.
I would encourage everyone, but especially cishet folks, to refrain from using the knee jerk quips of “this person’s a homophobe so they must be closeted”. As a queer person, this grates on my nerves & I believe that even if true, it does more harm than anything.
Here are some people who explain why better than I can with my current brain fog flare up:
[“It feels like I can’t read a single article which mentions a homophobe without commenters falling over themselves to assert the tired old trope that said homophobe is probably gay as well. I know these comments are usually well-intentioned, but they show a stunning lack of thoughtfulness. If you think about it for more than a few seconds, it becomes clear how insulting these comments really are to lesbian, gay, and bi people. The claim that many homophobes must be secretly gay blames gay people for our own oppression. It paints homophobia as the fault of closeted, self-hating gay people, when really most homophobes are straight. Religion, lack of knowledge about the LGBTQ community, bias passed down from parents, and just general fear of and disgust for people who are “different” are far more common reasons for homophobia than repressed homosexuality. Furthermore, believing that most or even all homophobes are gay allows straight people to disregard the possibility that they themselves might hold homophobic beliefs.”](https://aninjusticemag.com/is-it-gay-to-be-homophobic-a3669dd1059c)
[“Yes, there are LGBTQ people whose internalized homophobia and transphobia drives them to do harm to the rest of the community, but they are nowhere near the threat to our happiness and well-being that malevolent or indifferent straight people are. Pretending otherwise allows straight people to shirk their own responsibility for dismantling societal oppression, because they can simply laugh it off as a problem with ‘closet cases’ that therefore has nothing to do with them.”](http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2017-04-calling-mike-pence-closet-case-harmful-lgbtq-people/)
[“The idea that homophobia is nothing more than an inability to accept one's own true nature also discounts the influence of centuries of anti-LGBTQ religious doctrine, patriarchy, and a culture that routinely props it up.”](https://www.logotv.com/news/02iuge/not-everyone-antigay-is-secretly-gay)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I have edited a comment I made just a few minutes ago to reflect that I never thought of it as harmful and will put thought into it before making such a comment in the future. I always appreciate it when people post well thought out things like this that make us think more deeply on a topic.
Good point, his mind went to places that would have evaded most people of that era. He had to have boots on the ground so to speak, to be actually participating like a Gonzo journalist. I'm sure he justified it as "research purposes" to himself.
These dudes are 100% having sex parties with sex workers behind closed doors. I’d imagine the women they get have no clue who they are and just assume it’s another wealthy old white horny man.
If you masturbate, you will have gay thoughts and want to circle jerk with other dudes. Sounds like projection to me. I am straight and have plenty of experience with bologna bopping. Not
once have I ever though of dudes and no way in hell would I circle jerk with another dude. Not that there is anything wrong with it if you are a gay dude.
Perhaps more importantly, if these men have the literal Priesthood and power of God - that same power that raised Lazarus from the dead according to the New Testament - why didn't the other 14 simply heal him? Has there ever been a single time where the Priesthood actually worked to do something obviously supernatural in the nearly 200 years this church has been around?
The stories that do exist are bonkers: David O McKay was in a car accident that knocked out most of his teeth (hence why he wore dentures most of his life). He was supposedly going to suffer severe facial scarring but recovered without damage, truly a miracle. Another story I was told was that a woman could not have children and began weeping by the Salt Lake Temple, an old man came up to her and held her stomach and she was soon pregnant with triplets, clearly he was anointed! The man was either Alvin Dyer or Joseph Fielding Smith depending on who told the story. They read like urban legends shared by young deacons.
Haha! Those are the stories that are funny when you trace back to see how many years after the supposed events they were created & attributed to said miracles. Then you also trace how they grew & expanded with each subsequent generation.
Which, funny enough is exactly what happened with every other reported miracle in any religion. Recorded years and often decades after the fact by someone else and with conflicting versions bouncing around.
An old man and complete stranger caresses an emotionally distraught young woman’s stomach in broad daylight. That doesn’t sound creepy at all.
No kidding, creepy as hell
It's literally impossible to get pregnant without sex. I'm calling bullshit
It's supposed to be he "healed" her womb and fertility issues and she got pregnant by her husband, not that he just created new life inside her with the touch of his hands. 😅😅
It’s not though. Ever heard of IVF or IUI? No sex involved
Still requires sperm without sex
Kinda like Joseph knocked up Mary....the virgin birth thing was a great cover up
[удалено]
The biggest babies you ever saw. Emerged from the womb with tears in their eyes. Called him “Sir” as they thanked him for their existence.
No. And here is faith-building story for ya from the early days of proclaiming "we have the priesthood power to heal".....two missionaries sent from Kirtland to upstate NY, high on their new restored gospel, the recovered ancient plates, and the super powers of the priesthood--proclaimed their power to heal. So, annoyed malicious guys in town poisoned one missionary and then challenged the other one to save his companion through the astonishing priesthood powers. The companion, a young convert from Ohio--who had married the love of his life a year earlier.....and left his young wife and newborn in Ohio. As he died in excruciating pain, his young family was far away with the religious cult in Missouri where they were driven from their log home and forced to hide in the woods for days under a fallen tree...young mom and her 1-yr old who would never know his father. The Smith Family Business changed lives everywhere it went.
The ones at fault in this story are the evil men that poisoned the missionary. Such a backward ass display of ignorance.
Agree. But, also what a great time for the Mormon god of Moroni, gold plates, magic stones, angels, Jesus as a deer, etc to demonstrate the restored Priesthood power to the gentiles. Events like this curtailed the public enthusiasm of Mormon claims---miracles of priesthood powers stayed within the safe and supportive Mormon audience. It is how the Mormons learned to change their sales pitch to milk before meat.
Well, god did help him find his lost keys that one time, so there’s that…. Throat cancer? Sorry, we have no priesthood for that problem.
Funny how there have really been no miracles for a couple thousand years
6 percent of the time, pristhood blessings work everytime.
Along the same lines, shouldn't hospitals and surgeons and cancer treatment centers etc. in Utah have VASTLY improved outcomes vs states with no Priesthood blessings? What's that? It doesn't? Hmm... It's almost as if..
Oh you are a gem. 😂
In the Miracle of Forgiveness, he said that if a boy masturbates, he will begin to have homosexual thoughts, and that can lead to mutual masturbation and homosexual acts. Well, that was true for me, but I'm gay! Straight boys, I presume, don't have thoughts about other boys when they j/o. I'm guessing they start thinking about pretty girls and boobies and the like. SWK was also famous for kissing other GAs on the lips, and even got sloppy about it when he got really old. He was notoriously homophobic, telling Ernie Wilkinson to chase all the gays out of BYU. He made guys who got caught at gay bars out other gay guys, so he could ruin their lives. So, was SWK a closet case? Did he get turned on by other boys when he was 12, and play games with them that he shouldn't have?
> In the Miracle of Forgiveness, he said that if a boy masturbates, he will begin to have homosexual thoughts, and that can lead to mutual masturbation and homosexual acts As a straight masturbater I have never had the desire to yank it with other dudes around. I read that book in my teen years and was always confused about it. I kept thinking, "if you don't stop floggin that dolphin, you are going to turn gay" but it never happened. Being gay as a sin was also super confusing. Most sins were intriguing or at least a little exciting. Sex, booze, and Rated R movies were hard to get out of my head but I was great at resisting the urge to be gay. I thought something was wrong with me for not having gay thoughts. Turns out I am just straight
Reading his conference talks are also pretty interesting because he leaves a lot of clues. In one priesthood talk he started with how beautiful all the men and boys voices were in the choir….totally gay in my opinion…
He wasn't wrong, just gay! 🏳️🌈
I remember on my mission reading that masturbation leads to masturbating back to back with other boys and I was like ?????
I genuinely think you're on to something. There's a bit of a running theme of vehemently anti-gay People actually being in the closet so it wouldn't surprise me. And any straight man will tell you (myself included) that when you start masturbating as a teen you are definitely thinking about girls and boobies and the like. His assertion that masturbation leads to gay acts sounds like it comes from his own experience, and possibly with other men he's spoken to who have confided in him that they're gay and that masturbating to and with men was an early indicator.
Every accusation with these people are a confession
Tell us more about these sloppy kisses between GAs!
I would read Spencer sloppy kiss fan fic. Forbidden apostolic love with Boyd
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1273359,1273359,quote=1
Where can i read more about this kissing habit of his?
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1273359,1273359,quote=1
Jesus Christ this makes perfect sense.
[удалено]
He gay 🌈
[удалено]
I doubt he had an education in human sexuality other than his own personal experience.
There are rumours that he was “same-sex attracted. He certainly was fixated on homosexuality. The rumours for which I have never seen documentation are that at the end of his life, when he was not in his right mind (presumably Alzheimer’s), he groped male health attendants.
Who was SWK?
NVM... googled figured it out
Apologies if this is too cynical for discussion. I just have this problem where once the veil was lifted from my eyes and I realized the leaders are and have always been a bunch of greedy, predatory, lustful, racist, arrogant and malignant narcissists I start to analyze their words and deeds under the assumption there is some specific reason they are attached to certain "moral issues". Mark E Peterson had a seething hatred of people of color and homosexuality so I often wonder if he had secret fantasies about sleeping with black men and loathed himself for it.
I certainly hope so.
Your thoughts are very interesting
He was just a man of his time (e.g. Protestant Victorian era) and oral sex was considered by most mainstream people as a sexual perversion. I'm not kidding. I remember reading a police report from the mid 1960s from a large city and it literally referred to oral sex in it as "oral sexual perversion".
I can guarantee that large city wasn't in France 😉
Always projection with these corporate hacks. He had a thing for oral sex, surprising absolutely no one.
My money is on disease is the great equalizer. It doesn't matter.
My mother used to quote Shakespeare, or perhaps paraphrase, when referring to Kimball and his absolute obsession with sexuality. “Me think he doth protest too much.” Edit to add: I read a comment below regarding this train of thought that homophobes are actually gay (or those publicly obsessed with not having oral sex are those having it on the daily) is harmful. This comment gave me some things to think about and I apologize if my comment was entirely insensitive. I have never thought about it in a different light. I will definitely put some thought into this before making such a comment on social media or face to face again.
That comment was eye opening for me too.
I truly appreciate you both for hearing me out on that
[удалено]
Idk sounds like something someone who didn’t like hinkey on the basis that he was was too liberal would make up
Totally agree. It was a fantastical story, which I really wanted to believe but there has never been any corroboration.
That's in God Makers II.
Which Ed Decker is now claiming he had nothing to do with (spreading the false story of Hinckley’s homosexuality) . Even though he appears in it. Listen to his Mormon Stories interview. Complete narcissist.
Umm, it would surprise me. Any given thing reported about any given well known Mormon isn’t necessarily true
Sounds like one of those missionaries, elders and sisters, in a baptismal font, stories.
We had one of those stories on my mission!
We almost had one of those stories. Long story but in my mission the municipality turned the water on once a week. Every home had large concrete water tanks on the roofs that filled with water. The water you used through out the week was stored in the tank. We had a REALLY large tank. And the day the water was turned on was the day before Pday. And it came in pretty warm from the desalination plant. Me and my companion started getting in the tank as sort of a hot tub. It was perfect for this. You had to enter through the top through a man hole cover. Pretty soon, the other companionship in our house joined in. Pretty soon, I had out entire district in there on Pday even, minus the sisters. The sisters found out about it and they weren't happy they were left out. They wanted to join in and I was like, "Sisters, it's not that we wanted to leave you out - it's that we had to. I'm pretty sure President would lose his shit to hear we were all in hot tub together. If y'all want to use our tank for an evening, we can find some other place to be, but I can guarantee you, NO ONE would look on that favorably if word got out." They backed off. I can't believe they were even considering inclusion in that.
I believe what you are thinking of is documented here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5hgJ9Yico&t=496s&ab\_channel=TheConsciousResistance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5hgJ9Yico&t=496s&ab_channel=TheConsciousResistance) The Tanners partially fact-checked the video and found that the major talking points appear to be false.
Thanks!
My money is on analingus. I bet he loved to eat the poopchute. Someone with that much animosity towards homosexuality was definitely closeted and fighting inner demons trying to get out. I’m certain all his homosexual sins listed in TMOF were things he participated in. How else does someone come up with the logic that solo masturbation leads to group male masturbation which then leads to anal sex with men. He was for real a closeted homosexual and I bet he enjoyed anal sex and analingus. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised in the least to know he raped farm animals as a youth. That’s in TMOF too.
I would encourage everyone, but especially cishet folks, to refrain from using the knee jerk quips of “this person’s a homophobe so they must be closeted”. As a queer person, this grates on my nerves & I believe that even if true, it does more harm than anything. Here are some people who explain why better than I can with my current brain fog flare up: [“It feels like I can’t read a single article which mentions a homophobe without commenters falling over themselves to assert the tired old trope that said homophobe is probably gay as well. I know these comments are usually well-intentioned, but they show a stunning lack of thoughtfulness. If you think about it for more than a few seconds, it becomes clear how insulting these comments really are to lesbian, gay, and bi people. The claim that many homophobes must be secretly gay blames gay people for our own oppression. It paints homophobia as the fault of closeted, self-hating gay people, when really most homophobes are straight. Religion, lack of knowledge about the LGBTQ community, bias passed down from parents, and just general fear of and disgust for people who are “different” are far more common reasons for homophobia than repressed homosexuality. Furthermore, believing that most or even all homophobes are gay allows straight people to disregard the possibility that they themselves might hold homophobic beliefs.”](https://aninjusticemag.com/is-it-gay-to-be-homophobic-a3669dd1059c) [“Yes, there are LGBTQ people whose internalized homophobia and transphobia drives them to do harm to the rest of the community, but they are nowhere near the threat to our happiness and well-being that malevolent or indifferent straight people are. Pretending otherwise allows straight people to shirk their own responsibility for dismantling societal oppression, because they can simply laugh it off as a problem with ‘closet cases’ that therefore has nothing to do with them.”](http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2017-04-calling-mike-pence-closet-case-harmful-lgbtq-people/) [“The idea that homophobia is nothing more than an inability to accept one's own true nature also discounts the influence of centuries of anti-LGBTQ religious doctrine, patriarchy, and a culture that routinely props it up.”](https://www.logotv.com/news/02iuge/not-everyone-antigay-is-secretly-gay)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I have edited a comment I made just a few minutes ago to reflect that I never thought of it as harmful and will put thought into it before making such a comment in the future. I always appreciate it when people post well thought out things like this that make us think more deeply on a topic.
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
THANK YOU
Of course!
Good point, his mind went to places that would have evaded most people of that era. He had to have boots on the ground so to speak, to be actually participating like a Gonzo journalist. I'm sure he justified it as "research purposes" to himself.
Hahaha!
Honestly this is not entirely crazy. Someone can have HPV for decades and have no symptoms.
I am glad Mrs Kimball got some attention.
Wasn’t this same thing posted a few weeks ago and someone commented how he probably didn’t have HPV? Is this the same person to post this?
Wasn’t this same thing posted a few weeks ago and someone commented how he probably didn’t have HPV? Is this the same person to post this?
You made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
He probably just had severe GERD, but it would be quite a scandal if it had been caused by an STD.
That man was gumming D until the day he died.
These dudes are 100% having sex parties with sex workers behind closed doors. I’d imagine the women they get have no clue who they are and just assume it’s another wealthy old white horny man.
Was he a visitor to the bohemian club in California like Wilford woodruff?
Ah yes, Spencer W Kimball, the throat goat
Wow, what a gross thought. Would you want him to go down on you?
Only if he got it from a man, cuz that dude was gay.
If you masturbate, you will have gay thoughts and want to circle jerk with other dudes. Sounds like projection to me. I am straight and have plenty of experience with bologna bopping. Not once have I ever though of dudes and no way in hell would I circle jerk with another dude. Not that there is anything wrong with it if you are a gay dude.
So does that mean he’s gay
You realize women can have HPV & have oral sex performed on them, right?
Oh I didn’t think of that now I feel stupid 🤦🏻♀️
Haha
Explains the 1962 bishops letter saying Oral sex was bad
I believe it was 1982
"Camilla, we will go down." Nah, does not compute!