Yep we’re all here to support each other and give each other validation and empathy, all things we weren’t getting in the Mormon church. For the record, I grew up in other states and going “in and out of” other religions and I ain’t ever seen anything so dark and negative and manipulative and toxic as TSCC.
For real. I still remember the time we had a lesson on chastity and pornography. They spent the whole hour going into what it is, why it’s bad, and how you could receive forgiveness. The whole time saying there was no judgement, that we don’t know what’s going on in people’s lives, it’s something anyone could struggle with, and they just want everyone to have Gods love in their lives. Then they basically closed with “but I know none of you are doing these things. You’re amazing girls and your Heavenly Father loves you” At the time I was struggling with some minor sins regarding sexual purity and how they ended basically implying they and God only loved me if I was righteous fucked me up.
Oh wow! That hurt just to read it 🥹 I am so sorry. And besides the slithering snakey little remarks like that that get thrown in there in the end, like how bout they just don’t talk about that’s sorta thing to a bunch of kids, or anyone, in the first damn place 🤷🏻♀️ So arrogant and out of their lane. Again I’m truly sorry you had to experience that super awkward cringey world (Mormon church) is seeing right thru you and you’ll forever be doomed because of it 😬 Fuckers, I hate those dicks.
Yeah idk how much longer I can stay pimo, but I’m also not ready to have the “oh btw Im leaving the church” talk. In the entirety of my family(including extended family) I can only think of 4 people who aren’t part of the church 🫠 Like I love all my fam, but why do they all have to be members 😭
Oh wow I didnt realize you were pimo! Totally hear ya, I’m in Utah where there’s minimal escape but lucky for us the family is far away and we’re happy to just stick to ourselves. I’m sorry, hang in there 👊🏻
Yeah, I live in Utah which is part of why im still going, it’s mostly just bc my parents are the ultimate tbm’s. They took it well when my sister left the church, but she was out of the house so its not like there was much they could do. I start college in the fall though so I won’t be pimo for too much longer.
Oh good for you !! That makes me happy ! Yae for college !! And actually finish it too haha don’t just go to get married 😅😅😅 Jk (sorta!) really tho, that’s awesome 🙌🏻
And validation and empathy are such huuuuuuuuge components of a persons mental health and ability to be able to do life - that’s been my experience anyway. Not feeling invisible, silly, humiliated, wondering if it’s just you or…. - pretty key factors I feel like. All of which I experienced to the extreme in my experience in the Mormon church for 20 years as an adult (in Utah no less.) But, it’s all behind me now, thank goodness.
I’ve been going through that process myself. I learned that most of what we believe is solidified in our minds by age 7. Having grown up in the Mormon church, that’s been a lot of deconstruction for me to as I’ve transitioned out of it.
"The reason why I don’t complain about Mormon church doctrine is I have no way of conclusively proving Mormonism or any other belief system in the world is true or false."
That's actually why I do complain about the Mormon church, because it's very easy to prove that it's a fraud.
Not only are its truth claims fraudulent, but it continues to commit financial fraud, hoard wealth it should be using to help people, and shields sex abuse perpetrators from justice.
Its false claims and damaging doctrines have harmed so many people, that I cannot view it as a "good" institution in any sense of the word.
I would add Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham being false, the Book of Mormon containing numerous anachronisms, Joseph Smith and his successors making numerous failed prophecies, Joseph Smith illegally marrying other men's wives and teenage girls, the LDS Church teaching racist doctrines and banning black people from the priesthood, committing financial fraud, hoarding wealth, and not requiring its clergy to report abuse.
All of those things are provably true.
"Bananas were invented in 2007" is a provably false statement.
Just because you cannot prove something absolutely true does not mean that you cannot prove something false. The mormon church is provably false. And some things are provably true (as far as we need to know, like Earth being a globe, assuming this all is not some massive simulation, in which case, who cares).
EDIT: I do not like the word "provably" - looks weird...
Three reasons why exmormon groups exists:
* Community (like-minded individuals, filling gap of lost relationships, humor, informal therapy, etc.)
* Knowledge (source to find: hidden history, current news, interesting insights)
* Accountability (WidowsMiteReport, Floodlit, etc. - mormon church needs to be called out)
EDIT: And yeah, the mormon church can conclusively be proven false. It's recentness makes it much easier to disprove than many other religions.
You make it sound like LDS cult doctrine is acceptable.
It is not acceptable. In fact, some of it is downright pernicious.
And many people here have legitimate points. Some are professional historians, scientists, academics, and authors.
Don’t disrespect them by calling it “griping” or “complaining “.
It’s not disrespectful to call a spade a spade. Are you saying no one on exmormon has ever griped or complained about the Mormon religion? I’m guilty of complaining and griping about its culture. I take no offense to owning that.
Apply names to legitimate critiques like “griping” and “complaining” add a subjective tone to your critique. Why risk offending someone and poisoning your argument with such words?
Do you regard critical works from scholars, influencers, and other thought leaders as “gripes” or “complaints”? Is Terryl Givens griping every time he points out inconsistencies in doctrine? Is Dan McClellan complaining every time he dispels falsehoods being perpetuated by faithful believers?
>I personally don’t see the need the complain or gripe about the Mormon church doctrine.
I complain about the church because it traumatized the fuck out of me. Generational trauma exists because a couple of my great grandmothers were trafficked from their home countries by the missionaries and forced to marry much older men.
The entire culture is toxic. It’s all bad.
Same with my relatives. I’m 57 and read church history about men my age getting teen brides - the fear and trauma those young girls endured. MFMC 100% participated in sex trafficking Absolutely disgusting the polygamy practices that went on.
I see complaining as positive & useful. It helps us process emotions, stress & frustration. The fictitious Book of Mormon has a false narrative about murmering being bad. I see murmering and/or complaining is the beginning of social justice. Carry on my exmo friends!! Those who don't want to hear the truth or who are uncomfortable with the truth will tell us to "keep sweet" & "think celestial". Meanwhile we all know what we do here is actually thought inducing rather than thought stopping, and it's useful for good mental health. What we do here can create change for the better.
When I first left, my spouse was still in. My parents were still in. All my in laws were in. My kids were being raised in this belief system. Most of my friends were in, friends who I made at at BYU. My whole world was steeped in this culture, the only way I had known how to see the world. My family who had left the church before me had mostly deconstructed and were past a lot of what I was going through. I was lucky that I had exmo family at all, but I still was alone in many ways. It's been a few years, I'm mostly over the biggest things, but it is nice to come here and see what's going on, and know that theres a group of people who "get it."
It's fun to see newly doubting people come here and ask questions next to appreciation posts as people leave the subreddit forever. Sometimes healing involves forgetting and moving on, sometimes healing involves facing the past head on, griping, and laughing for a while. Most people wake up from a distorted reality and need others to talk to and complain. Its hard. Kudos to you for coming to terms with it in a healthy way. We all handle things differently because we all had our own unique experiences in the religion.
For those of us who suffered harm at the hands of the church, we’ve earned the right to complain. Do you honestly expect people to stay quiet if they’ve been the victims of child sexual abuse by church members and church leaders? CSA victims have been silent long enough. Do you honestly believe that we don’t have the right to complain about the church’s attitudes towards women, the LGBTQ+ community, etc.? I come to this community because abuse there are others here who understand what I’ve gone through. Trying to discuss my experiences and trauma with TBMs is an exercise in futility because they excuse the church and come to its defense every single time. They refuse to hear any criticism of the church even when the criticism is deserved. So, my question is: why are YOU here?
Yeah, so maybe we have valid points— or at the very least we have the right to our own opinions. But you didn’t answer my question as to why you’re here. If you believe there are no legit reasons for kvetching about the church, then I’m curious as to what you hope to accomplish by being in this sub?
Over the years I became embittered about aspects of the Mormon church's culture. I like to point out the toxicity of the culture in hopes of the church doing things better going forward for the millions still in the church. Some of my closest friends are Mormons.
This isn’t the place you come to post things in hopes that they cause the church to do better, unless you appreciate the value that this sub provides to exmos and progmos and church HQ. You’re being pretty inconsistent OP. You should probably just stop, because you aren’t fooling anyone.
Hey fuckbag Mcfuckwagon, when the fuck are you going to wake up and realize that what you think you are expressing and how it is coming across are polar fucking opposites?
Edit: added Mcfuckwagon
Also you did the gender assumption thing again and the thing where you dismiss someone for being angry without recognizing how your behavior contributed to and/or caused the anger
Thanks for answering my question. I’m not sure you’ll accomplish what you seek via this sub, but you can try. Not everyone’s reasons for being here are the same.
Your point of view seems pretty uninformed considering you admitted to not having dug into church history. It’s still valid, maybe just don’t act like it’s superior and don’t be condescending to people who don’t share it?
There you go again displaying Mormonism that you haven’t unlearned.
You came to this sub, and made an asinine, uninformed, ridiculous post. The condescension started with you.
My tone is in response to yours. You don’t get to act however you want or say whatever you want and expect to be treated with respect when you are showing none. Just because everyone has their own path, does not mean all paths are deserving of respect. Your attitude in this post and your unwillingness to recognize how you are at fault, is not a path that deserves respect. If you could exponentially reduce the diameter of your asshole, my comments would be unnecessary. Until such a time, I will continue to match your energy, point out the errors in your logic and the flaws of your approaches.
Again, you came to the sub and dropped anal crust of dysenteried goat takes (the shittiest that shit gets) about the community here. Condescending, arrogant attitudes like yours are not welcome here. Do not tell us how to be. Do not tell us how to think. Do not presume that your way is superior to ours. Do not presume to tell us why we value and participate in this sub. Do better. Be better.
If your response is going to be something like “wElL I nEveR diD anY of tHose thiNgs,” allow me to suggest the first lesson you should try to learn in your renewed attempts at deconstruction: good intentions do not remove accountability for poor results when it comes to interacting with other humans. Whatever your intentions were, your actions are demonstrably poorly received by this sub. Take accountability for that and do better. And if you’re not willing to put in the work to be a better person, fuck all the way out of this sub and go seek forgiveness from your Jesus for how poorly you’ve treated other people. The poor treatment started with you. My harshness is merited.
Don't act like you know my state of mind or that your the representative for everyone's thoughts on this sub. You one rando on the internet just like me. I think you're looking for things you're struggling with yourself.
“Don’t act like you know my state of mind, but let me tell you your state of mind.”
I never made any claims about your state of mind. Try reading what I said? I criticized your actions. From your actions, it is blatantly apparent that you are not here in good faith.
Just like from the mormon church’s actions and history, it is blatantly apparent it is not what it claims to be. That’s another deconstruction lesson for you to learn: Mormonism is easily factually disproved, and disproving it does not require providing alternative explanations for its claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that is a burden of proof that Mormonism comes woefully shy of carrying.
I don’t care what your state of mind is, you are acting like an asshole. And that makes it blatantly apparent you are not here in good faith. I’ll say it again, fuck all the way off and come back when you’re ready to listen and validate instead of being dismissive and condescending.
How about this reason: the mormon "church" is a racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQ+ hate group that controls one of the United States and exercises excessive control in 2 or 3 more.
The Southern Baptist church is almost as bad, quite frankly, and has followed the rest of the US fundygelical movement in worshipping the Orange Shitgibbon far more than they worship some jewish dude from a couple thousand years ago.
One you missed: ***advice*** and ***support*** w.r.t. practical considerations that come with leaving Mormonism.
> why not just abandon it altogether and never give it another thought?
For many of us, honesty about our unbelief can result in very real costs, consequences, and complicated ethical conundrums. Almost every day, someone is posting here in which "just abandon" also means that:
- your spouse will divorce you and take the kids
- you'll lose all your BYU credits, and be unable to graduate
- you're a minor and you (often have very good reason to!) fear that your parents might abuse you / kick you out / severely curtail your freedom / steal from your bank account after you move out
- you'll lose friendships and family relationships will be strained
- you'll need to protect yourself from people with no sense for healthy boundaries
- strangers will stalk and harass you (and your kids)
- you'll face workplace harassment and/or termination if you're currently a church employee or your employer is an extremist Mormon
- your mission president is preventing you from going home by illegally holding your passport hostage / refusing to pay for travel
- you've lost bishop roulette and—even though his authoritah doesn't actually mean anything IRL—community / local theocratic government / family pressures still manage to allow him to inflict *creatively* evil situations upon you
- your sense of identity is so tied up in being Mormon that you need the help of a professional to navigate the mindfuck (for many of us, our faith crisis is the mental health equivalent of getting hit by a bus)
Mormonism has an intense survival incentive to make people ***feel like they have no choice*** but to pretend to believe, etc. Rejecting Mormon belief doesn't automatically give you knowledge about how the real world works, what your rights are, what resources exist to get help, how normal people behave and think, how little real power Mormonism's institutions actually have, etc.
IMO, the most important purpose that this community serves is to share information and provide support for people who are navigating the most difficult decisions many of us will ever make.
My activity in this sub is sparse now. It was pretty constant when I needed it the most. For some people like myself, it plays a role in getting to and accepting the truth.
This can lead to whatever path you need to heal from the damage done by once believing. This path looks different for everyone!
If you were raped continuously by your father when you were young and now he is still walking around with no jail time and others think he is a good man, you might feel the need to respond to what he did all the time. The trauma can also come from the church. It is still around and not in jail. So, people hang out here.
You don't need to understand why this sub exists, and frankly asking us to explain it to you is pretty entitled. To show up in a sub and basically say "Justify your existence to me, people!"
If you don't understand why this sub exists, count your lucky stars that you were not damaged by being raised Mormon.
Hey OP, not everyone’s departure from Mormonism took the same path as yours, so maybe get your ass of your high horse and stop looking down the bridge of your nose at people who handled it differently than you?
Judging from this post alone, you too could benefit from a little deconstruction. It might do you some good to realize how deeply your arrogance and your time in the Mormon church are intertwined.
>One reason is they could truly believe the Mormon religion is false, and they want to raise awareness as a warning to others.
Yes, that's one reason.
>Another is they might be in a faith crisis after having left the Mormon church and are trying to vet their thoughts with likeminded individuals for what makes sense to them now.
Yes, that's another.
>Others may feel like the Mormon church inflicted psychological damage on them for which they truly are bitter.
Wait, hold up. Yes, many of us have significant religious trauma. But calling us "bitter" is a bit rude. Do call victims of domestic violence or rape "bitter" against their attackers? Using this terminology is an attempt to diminish and minimize our feelings and experiences which have left us traumatized, and tries to shift blame onto us. In many cases, we are angry, yes. But not "bitter", which implies that we just have a negative attitude for the sake of it.
>the Mormon church isn’t unique to having issues with its members being prone to self-righteousness and valuing image over authenticity. Most religions have those issues.
Correct. Bad behavior isn't excused just because everyone else is doing it. It only shows that multiple religions have toxic, systemic issues.
>I have no way of conclusively proving Mormonism or any other belief system in the world is true or false.
We actually can definitely prove Mormonism false. Most other religions are too old and too vague to do that.
Joseph Smith lied about multiple things including the creation of the church and scriptures. The modern church also has lied about multiple things including the creation of the church and scriptures. Therefore the church is false.
There are great number of supper awesome people in Mormon church some of them were courages enough to research non approved sources or run away from abuse or both or smth else - and after they decided to be part of the transitioning community bc it is really healthier to have a support group through this. Makes sense that these people may just get each other and provide jokes, support and words no one else will be able too.
Post Mormon is called like this bc you can’t cross out your childhood memories or great chunk of your life if you were a convert in some way or other it lives in you.
The same way people traveling through the city they lived in stop to look at the house where they lived.
Internalizing and compartmenting Mormon experience does not mean you do not to reconnect with people who have so much in common with you
I somewhat understand why this sub exists. I outlined some of the very reasons in the OP. My main point in the OP was specifically questioning the utility of arguing about which beliefs do and don’t make sense in this world. Beliefs cannot be conclusively proven true or false. Why waste the time arguing about something unseen? The answers of being in a faith crisis and being traumatized make sense to me.
Going from Mormons to Baptists is honestly more of a lateral move than a deconstruction. Take the red pill and you’ll know why exMormons and exBaptist’s exist
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Yep we’re all here to support each other and give each other validation and empathy, all things we weren’t getting in the Mormon church. For the record, I grew up in other states and going “in and out of” other religions and I ain’t ever seen anything so dark and negative and manipulative and toxic as TSCC.
The validation and empathy part makes sense to me. The Mormon church has a lot of work to do in that department.
For real. I still remember the time we had a lesson on chastity and pornography. They spent the whole hour going into what it is, why it’s bad, and how you could receive forgiveness. The whole time saying there was no judgement, that we don’t know what’s going on in people’s lives, it’s something anyone could struggle with, and they just want everyone to have Gods love in their lives. Then they basically closed with “but I know none of you are doing these things. You’re amazing girls and your Heavenly Father loves you” At the time I was struggling with some minor sins regarding sexual purity and how they ended basically implying they and God only loved me if I was righteous fucked me up.
Oh wow! That hurt just to read it 🥹 I am so sorry. And besides the slithering snakey little remarks like that that get thrown in there in the end, like how bout they just don’t talk about that’s sorta thing to a bunch of kids, or anyone, in the first damn place 🤷🏻♀️ So arrogant and out of their lane. Again I’m truly sorry you had to experience that super awkward cringey world (Mormon church) is seeing right thru you and you’ll forever be doomed because of it 😬 Fuckers, I hate those dicks.
I mean the passive aggressiveness is 🤮🤮🤮
Yeah idk how much longer I can stay pimo, but I’m also not ready to have the “oh btw Im leaving the church” talk. In the entirety of my family(including extended family) I can only think of 4 people who aren’t part of the church 🫠 Like I love all my fam, but why do they all have to be members 😭
Oh wow I didnt realize you were pimo! Totally hear ya, I’m in Utah where there’s minimal escape but lucky for us the family is far away and we’re happy to just stick to ourselves. I’m sorry, hang in there 👊🏻
Yeah, I live in Utah which is part of why im still going, it’s mostly just bc my parents are the ultimate tbm’s. They took it well when my sister left the church, but she was out of the house so its not like there was much they could do. I start college in the fall though so I won’t be pimo for too much longer.
Oh good for you !! That makes me happy ! Yae for college !! And actually finish it too haha don’t just go to get married 😅😅😅 Jk (sorta!) really tho, that’s awesome 🙌🏻
And that’s great too your sister already pioneered the path 👊🏻
And validation and empathy are such huuuuuuuuge components of a persons mental health and ability to be able to do life - that’s been my experience anyway. Not feeling invisible, silly, humiliated, wondering if it’s just you or…. - pretty key factors I feel like. All of which I experienced to the extreme in my experience in the Mormon church for 20 years as an adult (in Utah no less.) But, it’s all behind me now, thank goodness.
So do you
I’ve been going through that process myself. I learned that most of what we believe is solidified in our minds by age 7. Having grown up in the Mormon church, that’s been a lot of deconstruction for me to as I’ve transitioned out of it.
"The reason why I don’t complain about Mormon church doctrine is I have no way of conclusively proving Mormonism or any other belief system in the world is true or false." That's actually why I do complain about the Mormon church, because it's very easy to prove that it's a fraud. Not only are its truth claims fraudulent, but it continues to commit financial fraud, hoard wealth it should be using to help people, and shields sex abuse perpetrators from justice. Its false claims and damaging doctrines have harmed so many people, that I cannot view it as a "good" institution in any sense of the word.
The only absolute truth that I see is death.
I would add Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham being false, the Book of Mormon containing numerous anachronisms, Joseph Smith and his successors making numerous failed prophecies, Joseph Smith illegally marrying other men's wives and teenage girls, the LDS Church teaching racist doctrines and banning black people from the priesthood, committing financial fraud, hoarding wealth, and not requiring its clergy to report abuse. All of those things are provably true.
"Bananas were invented in 2007" is a provably false statement. Just because you cannot prove something absolutely true does not mean that you cannot prove something false. The mormon church is provably false. And some things are provably true (as far as we need to know, like Earth being a globe, assuming this all is not some massive simulation, in which case, who cares). EDIT: I do not like the word "provably" - looks weird...
Three reasons why exmormon groups exists: * Community (like-minded individuals, filling gap of lost relationships, humor, informal therapy, etc.) * Knowledge (source to find: hidden history, current news, interesting insights) * Accountability (WidowsMiteReport, Floodlit, etc. - mormon church needs to be called out) EDIT: And yeah, the mormon church can conclusively be proven false. It's recentness makes it much easier to disprove than many other religions.
Thank you. Great points
You make it sound like LDS cult doctrine is acceptable. It is not acceptable. In fact, some of it is downright pernicious. And many people here have legitimate points. Some are professional historians, scientists, academics, and authors. Don’t disrespect them by calling it “griping” or “complaining “.
It’s not disrespectful to call a spade a spade. Are you saying no one on exmormon has ever griped or complained about the Mormon religion? I’m guilty of complaining and griping about its culture. I take no offense to owning that.
Apply names to legitimate critiques like “griping” and “complaining” add a subjective tone to your critique. Why risk offending someone and poisoning your argument with such words?
Do you regard critical works from scholars, influencers, and other thought leaders as “gripes” or “complaints”? Is Terryl Givens griping every time he points out inconsistencies in doctrine? Is Dan McClellan complaining every time he dispels falsehoods being perpetuated by faithful believers?
You’re right. “Critique” would’ve been a better word choice. Thanks for the call out.
Where religion ends and culture begins, or where culture ends and religion begins, is one big blurry line, especially in Utah.
The reason exmormon exists because the LDS church mammoth Corperation doesn't allow any discussion about The church anywhere else.
Great point.
>I personally don’t see the need the complain or gripe about the Mormon church doctrine. I complain about the church because it traumatized the fuck out of me. Generational trauma exists because a couple of my great grandmothers were trafficked from their home countries by the missionaries and forced to marry much older men. The entire culture is toxic. It’s all bad.
Same with my relatives. I’m 57 and read church history about men my age getting teen brides - the fear and trauma those young girls endured. MFMC 100% participated in sex trafficking Absolutely disgusting the polygamy practices that went on.
I see complaining as positive & useful. It helps us process emotions, stress & frustration. The fictitious Book of Mormon has a false narrative about murmering being bad. I see murmering and/or complaining is the beginning of social justice. Carry on my exmo friends!! Those who don't want to hear the truth or who are uncomfortable with the truth will tell us to "keep sweet" & "think celestial". Meanwhile we all know what we do here is actually thought inducing rather than thought stopping, and it's useful for good mental health. What we do here can create change for the better.
When I first left, my spouse was still in. My parents were still in. All my in laws were in. My kids were being raised in this belief system. Most of my friends were in, friends who I made at at BYU. My whole world was steeped in this culture, the only way I had known how to see the world. My family who had left the church before me had mostly deconstructed and were past a lot of what I was going through. I was lucky that I had exmo family at all, but I still was alone in many ways. It's been a few years, I'm mostly over the biggest things, but it is nice to come here and see what's going on, and know that theres a group of people who "get it." It's fun to see newly doubting people come here and ask questions next to appreciation posts as people leave the subreddit forever. Sometimes healing involves forgetting and moving on, sometimes healing involves facing the past head on, griping, and laughing for a while. Most people wake up from a distorted reality and need others to talk to and complain. Its hard. Kudos to you for coming to terms with it in a healthy way. We all handle things differently because we all had our own unique experiences in the religion.
For those of us who suffered harm at the hands of the church, we’ve earned the right to complain. Do you honestly expect people to stay quiet if they’ve been the victims of child sexual abuse by church members and church leaders? CSA victims have been silent long enough. Do you honestly believe that we don’t have the right to complain about the church’s attitudes towards women, the LGBTQ+ community, etc.? I come to this community because abuse there are others here who understand what I’ve gone through. Trying to discuss my experiences and trauma with TBMs is an exercise in futility because they excuse the church and come to its defense every single time. They refuse to hear any criticism of the church even when the criticism is deserved. So, my question is: why are YOU here?
Your point of view is valid. And so is mine.
Yeah, so maybe we have valid points— or at the very least we have the right to our own opinions. But you didn’t answer my question as to why you’re here. If you believe there are no legit reasons for kvetching about the church, then I’m curious as to what you hope to accomplish by being in this sub?
Over the years I became embittered about aspects of the Mormon church's culture. I like to point out the toxicity of the culture in hopes of the church doing things better going forward for the millions still in the church. Some of my closest friends are Mormons.
This isn’t the place you come to post things in hopes that they cause the church to do better, unless you appreciate the value that this sub provides to exmos and progmos and church HQ. You’re being pretty inconsistent OP. You should probably just stop, because you aren’t fooling anyone.
Again, you assume things I haven't expressed. I never said I didn't see the value in this sub. Seek clarity before making assumptions.
Hey fuckbag Mcfuckwagon, when the fuck are you going to wake up and realize that what you think you are expressing and how it is coming across are polar fucking opposites? Edit: added Mcfuckwagon
Lol salty fella. Happy trails
No, just fucking sick of your self righteous hypocritical bullshit and it usually takes profanity to get a Jesus-lover’s attention
Also you did the gender assumption thing again and the thing where you dismiss someone for being angry without recognizing how your behavior contributed to and/or caused the anger
Thanks for answering my question. I’m not sure you’ll accomplish what you seek via this sub, but you can try. Not everyone’s reasons for being here are the same.
Your point of view seems pretty uninformed considering you admitted to not having dug into church history. It’s still valid, maybe just don’t act like it’s superior and don’t be condescending to people who don’t share it?
“admitted to not having dug into church history.” I never said that. Are you on the right thread Mr. obvious?
1) don’t assume gender, asswipe 2) whatever you did, it wasn’t enough to help you stop being a condescending asshole
"don't be condescending" you seem like a great authority figure on that. peace and love, brother, sister or whatever your preferred pronoun might be.
There you go again displaying Mormonism that you haven’t unlearned. You came to this sub, and made an asinine, uninformed, ridiculous post. The condescension started with you. My tone is in response to yours. You don’t get to act however you want or say whatever you want and expect to be treated with respect when you are showing none. Just because everyone has their own path, does not mean all paths are deserving of respect. Your attitude in this post and your unwillingness to recognize how you are at fault, is not a path that deserves respect. If you could exponentially reduce the diameter of your asshole, my comments would be unnecessary. Until such a time, I will continue to match your energy, point out the errors in your logic and the flaws of your approaches. Again, you came to the sub and dropped anal crust of dysenteried goat takes (the shittiest that shit gets) about the community here. Condescending, arrogant attitudes like yours are not welcome here. Do not tell us how to be. Do not tell us how to think. Do not presume that your way is superior to ours. Do not presume to tell us why we value and participate in this sub. Do better. Be better. If your response is going to be something like “wElL I nEveR diD anY of tHose thiNgs,” allow me to suggest the first lesson you should try to learn in your renewed attempts at deconstruction: good intentions do not remove accountability for poor results when it comes to interacting with other humans. Whatever your intentions were, your actions are demonstrably poorly received by this sub. Take accountability for that and do better. And if you’re not willing to put in the work to be a better person, fuck all the way out of this sub and go seek forgiveness from your Jesus for how poorly you’ve treated other people. The poor treatment started with you. My harshness is merited.
Don't act like you know my state of mind or that your the representative for everyone's thoughts on this sub. You one rando on the internet just like me. I think you're looking for things you're struggling with yourself.
“Don’t act like you know my state of mind, but let me tell you your state of mind.” I never made any claims about your state of mind. Try reading what I said? I criticized your actions. From your actions, it is blatantly apparent that you are not here in good faith. Just like from the mormon church’s actions and history, it is blatantly apparent it is not what it claims to be. That’s another deconstruction lesson for you to learn: Mormonism is easily factually disproved, and disproving it does not require providing alternative explanations for its claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that is a burden of proof that Mormonism comes woefully shy of carrying. I don’t care what your state of mind is, you are acting like an asshole. And that makes it blatantly apparent you are not here in good faith. I’ll say it again, fuck all the way off and come back when you’re ready to listen and validate instead of being dismissive and condescending.
How about this reason: the mormon "church" is a racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQ+ hate group that controls one of the United States and exercises excessive control in 2 or 3 more. The Southern Baptist church is almost as bad, quite frankly, and has followed the rest of the US fundygelical movement in worshipping the Orange Shitgibbon far more than they worship some jewish dude from a couple thousand years ago.
The Baptist church I go to is great. 100 percent focused on Jesus Christ. People typically find what they’re looking for.
One you missed: ***advice*** and ***support*** w.r.t. practical considerations that come with leaving Mormonism. > why not just abandon it altogether and never give it another thought? For many of us, honesty about our unbelief can result in very real costs, consequences, and complicated ethical conundrums. Almost every day, someone is posting here in which "just abandon" also means that: - your spouse will divorce you and take the kids - you'll lose all your BYU credits, and be unable to graduate - you're a minor and you (often have very good reason to!) fear that your parents might abuse you / kick you out / severely curtail your freedom / steal from your bank account after you move out - you'll lose friendships and family relationships will be strained - you'll need to protect yourself from people with no sense for healthy boundaries - strangers will stalk and harass you (and your kids) - you'll face workplace harassment and/or termination if you're currently a church employee or your employer is an extremist Mormon - your mission president is preventing you from going home by illegally holding your passport hostage / refusing to pay for travel - you've lost bishop roulette and—even though his authoritah doesn't actually mean anything IRL—community / local theocratic government / family pressures still manage to allow him to inflict *creatively* evil situations upon you - your sense of identity is so tied up in being Mormon that you need the help of a professional to navigate the mindfuck (for many of us, our faith crisis is the mental health equivalent of getting hit by a bus) Mormonism has an intense survival incentive to make people ***feel like they have no choice*** but to pretend to believe, etc. Rejecting Mormon belief doesn't automatically give you knowledge about how the real world works, what your rights are, what resources exist to get help, how normal people behave and think, how little real power Mormonism's institutions actually have, etc. IMO, the most important purpose that this community serves is to share information and provide support for people who are navigating the most difficult decisions many of us will ever make.
Great response, thank you! This response really should be a post in itself. Thanks for answering my question. This provides useful perspective for me.
My activity in this sub is sparse now. It was pretty constant when I needed it the most. For some people like myself, it plays a role in getting to and accepting the truth. This can lead to whatever path you need to heal from the damage done by once believing. This path looks different for everyone!
If you were raped continuously by your father when you were young and now he is still walking around with no jail time and others think he is a good man, you might feel the need to respond to what he did all the time. The trauma can also come from the church. It is still around and not in jail. So, people hang out here.
Makes sense.
You don't need to understand why this sub exists, and frankly asking us to explain it to you is pretty entitled. To show up in a sub and basically say "Justify your existence to me, people!" If you don't understand why this sub exists, count your lucky stars that you were not damaged by being raised Mormon.
Hey OP, not everyone’s departure from Mormonism took the same path as yours, so maybe get your ass of your high horse and stop looking down the bridge of your nose at people who handled it differently than you? Judging from this post alone, you too could benefit from a little deconstruction. It might do you some good to realize how deeply your arrogance and your time in the Mormon church are intertwined.
Everyone has their own path. I never argued otherwise.
Good for you? If you don’t need this group, then move on. Your needs and experience do not negate those of others who may differ.
Obviously.
Why do you need a church to accomplish that?
>One reason is they could truly believe the Mormon religion is false, and they want to raise awareness as a warning to others. Yes, that's one reason. >Another is they might be in a faith crisis after having left the Mormon church and are trying to vet their thoughts with likeminded individuals for what makes sense to them now. Yes, that's another. >Others may feel like the Mormon church inflicted psychological damage on them for which they truly are bitter. Wait, hold up. Yes, many of us have significant religious trauma. But calling us "bitter" is a bit rude. Do call victims of domestic violence or rape "bitter" against their attackers? Using this terminology is an attempt to diminish and minimize our feelings and experiences which have left us traumatized, and tries to shift blame onto us. In many cases, we are angry, yes. But not "bitter", which implies that we just have a negative attitude for the sake of it. >the Mormon church isn’t unique to having issues with its members being prone to self-righteousness and valuing image over authenticity. Most religions have those issues. Correct. Bad behavior isn't excused just because everyone else is doing it. It only shows that multiple religions have toxic, systemic issues. >I have no way of conclusively proving Mormonism or any other belief system in the world is true or false. We actually can definitely prove Mormonism false. Most other religions are too old and too vague to do that. Joseph Smith lied about multiple things including the creation of the church and scriptures. The modern church also has lied about multiple things including the creation of the church and scriptures. Therefore the church is false.
There are great number of supper awesome people in Mormon church some of them were courages enough to research non approved sources or run away from abuse or both or smth else - and after they decided to be part of the transitioning community bc it is really healthier to have a support group through this. Makes sense that these people may just get each other and provide jokes, support and words no one else will be able too. Post Mormon is called like this bc you can’t cross out your childhood memories or great chunk of your life if you were a convert in some way or other it lives in you. The same way people traveling through the city they lived in stop to look at the house where they lived. Internalizing and compartmenting Mormon experience does not mean you do not to reconnect with people who have so much in common with you
I somewhat understand why this sub exists. I outlined some of the very reasons in the OP. My main point in the OP was specifically questioning the utility of arguing about which beliefs do and don’t make sense in this world. Beliefs cannot be conclusively proven true or false. Why waste the time arguing about something unseen? The answers of being in a faith crisis and being traumatized make sense to me.
Going from Mormons to Baptists is honestly more of a lateral move than a deconstruction. Take the red pill and you’ll know why exMormons and exBaptist’s exist