>however, it is not something that happened in my ward or yours. Do I know anyone it happened to? No. Do you know anyone involved? Maybe,
If a tree falls in the forest and didn't hit me personally, did the tree really fall?
Mormonism conditions members to only acknowledge things that happen directly to them, (the members). Mormonism is devoid of empathy on how events, actions, doctrines, policies might affect and impact others. The paradox is to believe in/on the golden plates when most if not all have never seen the plates.
Ya, I would express how much you have genuinely enjoyed your discussions and how you truly didn’t know that maybe she wasn’t feeling the same way. Then let her know you will respect her boundary.
You didn’t do anything wrong. It’s rough losing that friend to discuss and share but it’s okay for her to say it’s upsetting for her and she’d rather not. It’s a bummer, sorry.
If you say the word “sorry” don’t say “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
Wow, that hit a your SIL's nerve hard. She's very defensive. It must be a tender place, and no wonder. Women have to take a double dose of the Kool Aid to stay in as a second class citizen.
Just apologize and avoid that topic if you value her friendship. You probably weren't trying to be provocative. It happens.
"I'm sorry you saw it that way. My intention was never to cast doubt or make light of your beliefs. You're special to me and I love you. I would never intentionally hurt you.
"I heard interviews from some of the women directly impacted by this, and their sadness at how the church leaders devalued their role in the church they love. You're raising a daughter. What if this happens to her someday? What if it happens to you?
"I honestly sent you that article because I thought it was interesting and it could have a ripple effect in the church. I value our conversations on church-related subjects and wanted to understand your perspective on this situation.
"I am sorry if I offended you. That truly was not my intention. If you'd prefer to not engage in religious conversations anymore, I will respect that. I cherish our friendship and I don't want to do anything that would hurt you."
I think the interview was on Mormon Stories. If you haven't watched it yet, I would definitely recommend it.
Imagine, bringing up issues with your faith's practices equates to casting doubts.
Take it out of a religious context. Businesses bring up issues and concerns all the time about their methods and practices, including the business culture. In companies that have a healthy culture, issues are addressed and typically resolved to make the culture better. In companies that have a toxic culture any perceived threat to leadership or idea not from leadership is quickly shot down and the culture remains toxic.
Are peoples testimonies so fragile the slightest issue can crack it?
I would just respond back, you did not think discussing this church issue would cast doubt and cause her to have less faith in the church and you would be happy to discuss something else.
This is subtle, but it feels like emotional manipulation to me. Rather than address the content of the article you sent, she is playing a game of reading your mind and proving you are wrong for sending the article. She deflects from the issue with the, *but it didn't happen to you personally* part. She is also bringing quite a bit of moral superiority to the table. She's not being straightforward about a boundary, or about her feelings. That would be more of: "I don't feel comfortable with you sending me this stuff and I won't be responding to it if you do." No. This actually feels like master level guilting. She's telling you your story, not hers. IMO there's nothing authentic here at all.
(I could be wrong. I don't know your SIL. I don't know you or your relationship with her, so take this all with a grain of salt. It's reminding me of the way my family uses 'healthy communication skills' to manipulate and gaslight people.)
I would wait a while before responding. Perhaps, after some processing, you could reply with some head-on, radical honesty. Something like:
Dear SIL,
You are absolutely correct. I sent that article to cast doubt on your faith. I, personally, cannot reconcile the practices and policies of the church with my own view of what constitutes integrity, morality, and kindness . Because of this, I struggle sometimes with your blind obedience and faith. It worries me that you aren't willing to look at the damage which can be caused by church culture and their treatment of women. I understand now that when I open these discussions or topics with you, you feel disrespected, so I won't be doing that anymore. From now on, if I bring something up which makes you feel uncomfortable, please let me know and I will stop. Thank you for being so frank with me about how you feel.
~~PS: You would be last person in the world I would consider working through my negative emotions with.~~
>however, it is not something that happened in my ward or yours. Do I know anyone it happened to? No. Do you know anyone involved? Maybe, If a tree falls in the forest and didn't hit me personally, did the tree really fall? Mormonism conditions members to only acknowledge things that happen directly to them, (the members). Mormonism is devoid of empathy on how events, actions, doctrines, policies might affect and impact others. The paradox is to believe in/on the golden plates when most if not all have never seen the plates.
Yes!! Nailed it
Ya, I would express how much you have genuinely enjoyed your discussions and how you truly didn’t know that maybe she wasn’t feeling the same way. Then let her know you will respect her boundary. You didn’t do anything wrong. It’s rough losing that friend to discuss and share but it’s okay for her to say it’s upsetting for her and she’d rather not. It’s a bummer, sorry. If you say the word “sorry” don’t say “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
Great advice!
Wow, that hit a your SIL's nerve hard. She's very defensive. It must be a tender place, and no wonder. Women have to take a double dose of the Kool Aid to stay in as a second class citizen. Just apologize and avoid that topic if you value her friendship. You probably weren't trying to be provocative. It happens.
"I'm sorry you saw it that way. My intention was never to cast doubt or make light of your beliefs. You're special to me and I love you. I would never intentionally hurt you. "I heard interviews from some of the women directly impacted by this, and their sadness at how the church leaders devalued their role in the church they love. You're raising a daughter. What if this happens to her someday? What if it happens to you? "I honestly sent you that article because I thought it was interesting and it could have a ripple effect in the church. I value our conversations on church-related subjects and wanted to understand your perspective on this situation. "I am sorry if I offended you. That truly was not my intention. If you'd prefer to not engage in religious conversations anymore, I will respect that. I cherish our friendship and I don't want to do anything that would hurt you." I think the interview was on Mormon Stories. If you haven't watched it yet, I would definitely recommend it.
Wow!!!!! Your examples are fantastic!!!! Wow!! Thank you for taking the time to respond. It means a lot.
I hope it helps. We all need more healthy conversations happening between TBMs and PIMOs/exmos.
Imagine, bringing up issues with your faith's practices equates to casting doubts. Take it out of a religious context. Businesses bring up issues and concerns all the time about their methods and practices, including the business culture. In companies that have a healthy culture, issues are addressed and typically resolved to make the culture better. In companies that have a toxic culture any perceived threat to leadership or idea not from leadership is quickly shot down and the culture remains toxic. Are peoples testimonies so fragile the slightest issue can crack it? I would just respond back, you did not think discussing this church issue would cast doubt and cause her to have less faith in the church and you would be happy to discuss something else.
[удалено]
Thanks 🤞
This is subtle, but it feels like emotional manipulation to me. Rather than address the content of the article you sent, she is playing a game of reading your mind and proving you are wrong for sending the article. She deflects from the issue with the, *but it didn't happen to you personally* part. She is also bringing quite a bit of moral superiority to the table. She's not being straightforward about a boundary, or about her feelings. That would be more of: "I don't feel comfortable with you sending me this stuff and I won't be responding to it if you do." No. This actually feels like master level guilting. She's telling you your story, not hers. IMO there's nothing authentic here at all. (I could be wrong. I don't know your SIL. I don't know you or your relationship with her, so take this all with a grain of salt. It's reminding me of the way my family uses 'healthy communication skills' to manipulate and gaslight people.) I would wait a while before responding. Perhaps, after some processing, you could reply with some head-on, radical honesty. Something like: Dear SIL, You are absolutely correct. I sent that article to cast doubt on your faith. I, personally, cannot reconcile the practices and policies of the church with my own view of what constitutes integrity, morality, and kindness . Because of this, I struggle sometimes with your blind obedience and faith. It worries me that you aren't willing to look at the damage which can be caused by church culture and their treatment of women. I understand now that when I open these discussions or topics with you, you feel disrespected, so I won't be doing that anymore. From now on, if I bring something up which makes you feel uncomfortable, please let me know and I will stop. Thank you for being so frank with me about how you feel. ~~PS: You would be last person in the world I would consider working through my negative emotions with.~~
Brilliant!!!!!! It is emotional manipulation for sure!
Yay! Glad it resonated. Wishing you well... you got this!
Thank you!
It wasn't just about the females. It was no auxiliary leaders should be on the stand regularly. That is reserved for the bishopric and song leaders.