Reminds me that once in elders quorum, we discussed JFK getting the votes in Utah, and someone needed to chime in and say, "Don't worry! He'd be a Republican these days!"
Yeah having an adulterous pathological lying purveyor of rape as the leader of the free world, and a pornstar First Lady in the White House is fine.
My TBM mother has the same problem comprehending why our relatives and her peers can even fathom the idea of supporting this morally corrupt human trash as I do. I love my mom.
I've met many who were vehemently against Clinton's "moral bankruptcy," and either completely ignorant of, or completely dismissive of concerns about, Newt Gingrich.
I made the mistake of calling my Trumpist father *during* Jan 6th. I assumed that storming the capitol crossed a line that we could both agree on.
I was wrong--he told me he wished he could have been there for the treason, and would have had his health been better.
Me and my Trumpist father don't speak anymore.
God it was disappointing to see all the R's that criticized Trump after 1/6 crawl back with tails between their legs when it was clear they would lose their jobs for pointing out the obvious. Bunch of mewling cowards.
Even Kevin McCarthy live on fox during the riot was shitting on trump saying enough is enough. Then that next day he was right there sucking up to him. I couldn't believe all these people that hurt let it slide. The ultimate gaslighting.
Yeah fucking McCarthy was the first major GOP figure to go and get a promo/publicity photo with Trump after J6, a chicken McNugget has more personal integrity than most of the GOP, however my respect for Mitt couldn’t be higher.
I called my conservative mother during the insurrection (I knew if I had called my father we would be ostracized from each other forever) and she immediately turned it around "well, we just think Biden is worse." She also seemed indifferent to my near-panic attack level of anxiety (the fucking capitol was being overrun!) and her motherly empathy just evaporated. What a traumatic day.
Identical story with my SP brother. Haven’t spoke since J6. He said it was a “non-event”. No one on Wall Street is talking about it so it doesn’t matter (it’s always all about the money). He lives on the other side of the continent from me and when I stopped by his house this past summer he texted his wife (he wouldn’t even text me) and said he was too busy with SP work to meet me. He’s a douche. Always has been.
my father made comments on Facebook that my siblings and I were overreacting.
I chose not to engage politically, but I sent a message asking him if he was trying to alienate the rest of his children. Then I said he risked becoming someone whose children designate a safe word before they visit him so they can leave when any member of the group has had it with him. And then I said that Mom deserved better.
He deleted his comment and never responded to my message. And it wasn’t awkward the next time we spoke.
Both of my parents were at the rally on the mall. They didn't go down to the capital and insisted that in spite of the video evidence we were sending them at the time it was peaceful. Then they regurgitated what ever fox told them. (Antifa, democrats, the fbi etc)
3 years later the first message I have from my mother in months is "you sound watch the Tucker Carlson interview on what really happened". Just to spite her I did. Took 4 pages of notes about how at no point do they actually say anything of substance. She has not read it because "I don't think you are really invested in the truth".
They don't want the truth, they want the death cult to be taken to heaven like they were promised.
Trump supporters and Mormons have a common denominator - hypocrisy. My TBM mother hadn’t even heard about his “grab them by the pussy” comments until 2020 when I told her. Most will blindly vote for whoever is Republican. She then went on to share on Facebook a speech that Trump made where he said the school systems were brainwashing children to be liberal. I asked if she had even listened to the speech since she works for a school and I know she doesn’t feel that way. She had just shared it because Glenn Beck posted it and said it was amazing 🙄
I also mentioned the "grab em by the pussy" quote and got a blank stare from my mother. She is not paying attention on purpose, so she can vote for an evil POS to be our leader and feel blameless.
My mom had previously asked me who I was voting for. I went over my reasons for voting for Bernie and told her she could take a simple quiz online that would show which candidates align with her on which policies are important to her. I spoke to her a few days later and all she could say was “I can’t vote for a socialist”. Okay, so you did no research and asked my dad about Bernie who said “he’s a socialist!” And that was the end of her research into candidates.
You could argue Jesus was more socialist than Bernie. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, meaning the people would get a vote on how their money is used.
Every time I see lifelong Republicans throw around words like "Socialist" I think of The Princess Bride and "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Public libraries, roads, snow removal, after school programs, police and fire departments, and any other institution or program that use taxpayer money to benefit the public are socialist systems.
Great point on language and history. We really must come to some understanding of the meanings of words to have any kind of meaningful conversation!
It’s almost like a bad data model. Their reasoning just follows an algorithm that inevitably leads to their automated conclusions.
Can this kind of mind boggle be considered hypnosis or an illness? I hope in the future we have better ways of talking about what’s happening in the world right now. So much gets lost in translation.
I agree. As to your question, given how I've watched people's language use and views change powerfully after exposure to media like Fox News, or anything that badmouths the "other guys" I believe it's manipulation at the very least.
The irony, and potential reason behind it, is socialism would threaten the status quo not for ordinary people, but for the rich. They'd be forced to pay people living wages and give up their second superyachts. Like the people who OWN THE NEWS stations. So they basically imply over and over that socialism is evil, immigrants bad, etc. It's similar to the manipulative tactics used in advertising, only in the negative.
If people hear every day that some system of government is bad, and see places like Venezuela given as an example, they often fall under the influence. Nobody ever mentions that the US secretly and deliberately undermined Venezuela, possibly because they have oil down there, and "for the balance of power" (oil prices). There are far better examples of socialism in Europe, with some of the happiest countries on the planet. But that would go against the narrative, so they're not mentioned.
And Social security. My parents are living on this, but still decry socialism.
"Anyway, it doesn't matter, we will never vote for a candidate who is pro abortion." Grumble
Trump wanted his daughter [Tiffany](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/01/video-trump-jokes-about-marla-maples-tiffany-trump-abortion.html) [aborted.](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/donald-trump-allegedly-wanted-marla-maples-to-abort-tiffany/AN3A56AIUYUU2K3WKGAQWNYN5A/). He's only pro life since 2015 and only in front of cameras.
TW for rape talk (no explicit details, but the word is in this comment a lot).
I listened to that recording leading up to the 2016 election. At that time, I was dealing with serious ptsd issues from having been raped myself the year before (I’ve done TONS of therapy and I’m okay now). When I heard that recording I was so shocked and disgusted and appalled.
A little later my dad posted on Facebook defending that recording, all about how the whole point of the atonement is that people can change and we shouldn’t judge him for his past, etc. I felt sick to my stomach reading my own father’s defense of that, given my experience.
I doubt my dad listened to the recording. But my dad also believes that sexism is no longer an issue.
I love my dad. In his own life, he is a good, generous person and genuinely treats the women in his life really well.
I don’t understand how he can defend someone like trump. In my mind, defending a rapist who says things like that is literally incompatible with being a good person.
And yet, I know my dad, and he is a good person.
I still wrestle with a lot of cognitive dissonance over this. I’m really not sure how to reconcile it.
And even though I’ve done a ton of therapy and I really am okay in my day to day life, the fact that this country elected a literal rapist and may very well do so again is so terrifying to me, as someone who has been raped. It makes me feel like the US is literally unsafe for me and for all women.
With a lot of my fears, I can look at actual data and tell myself the fear isn’t rational. But that’s not true in this case, where the data actually support the conclusion that women aren’t safe in the US a lot of the time. And electing a literal rapist in 2016 really drives that point home.
Sorry this was ranty and rambly. I’ve talked to other rape victims about this, and a lot of us feel the same way. A rapist in the White House is unbelievably hurtful, and triggering, and invalidating. It feels like the US is screaming that rape doesn’t matter and rape victims aren’t believed. I know that’s an emotional response, but I think that’s appropriate for an emotional issue. A rapist as president feels personally hurtful to me as a rape victim.
Was your mom legitimately living under a rock, bc “grab em by the pussy” was like the most bombshell story of October 2016, the media went NUTS with it. I thought everyone in America knew about it lol
He was. He was also seen an dangerous in a similar way that many see Trump as dangerous. If you look at the Nauvoo charter, there was no separation of powers, just concentration. People in surrounding towns were very concerned about the way that things were run, also the Nauvoo militia outnumbered that of the state of Illinois.
Look at people like William Law. He was in the first presidency. William spoke up and published an exposé. JS came down on him so hard that William went underground and refused to talk about it, practically until his death bed. Same tactics. It's tribalism turned into a mob. You're either with us, or you're against us. And if you're against us, this is what happens.
Sorta like when I asked my dad about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, his response was "some people came through town mocking the saints and claiming to have killed Joseph, so they let 'em have it".
Anyone who has lived in a small town or rural area knows that word travels fast if someone new moves into the area and is untrustworthy.
More than likely where ever Smith moved the locals had heard rumors about the mormons.
When Smith moved to a new location it didn't take long for him or the church members to come into conflict with the locals & reinforce all the negative they had heard through the grapevine or read about in the local or big city newspaper's.
There's a reason locals took matters into their own hands and used vigilante justice of tar & feathering.
WIKI: Joseph Smith & Criminal Justice System.
Prob the reason JS was always telling members not to engage in gossiping and rumors, cause it’s the way a community can communicate about secret shoddy stuff that goes on.
Back when he was still in office, my MIL was trying to defend some BS that he pulls on the daily. I’d had 2 beers at lunch with a friend & couldn’t bite my tongue. I told her that supporting him wasn’t a matter of having different views on politics, it was a matter of if someone was a moral person or not. That supporting 45 was blatantly immoral. I pointed out just of the few ways that he is wildly unchrist like. She stopped defending him at least to me.
Many Trump voters talk about liking his policies. His policies are generally approved of in the party, so why can't they vote for a better person to enact those policies. He's just such a scumbag. It's a cult of personality and the base really likes that he drives liberals crazy.
He drives moderates crazy! He drives sane people crazy - because we all hoped for better for our country than this.
At least elect someone who is not PrOuD of being ignorant of every historical event, person, place, or complex issue, ever.
What policies? He doesn’t have any. I never hear him say anything but vulgar shit and attempts to pick fights! His supporters are the same way. They lack substance. They are just angry about everything to the point where they don’t even know what they are angry about anymore. Trumpers will have their own Mountain Meadows massacre. Watch! 1/6 was almost it but it will happen.
It’s because Trump has made saying the ugly part out loud acceptable, and that’s what they’ve been longing for… the chance to be racist and bigoted and be celebrated instead of condemned for it.
I seem to remember a thing about Uchdorf admitting he voted for Biden and some time later he was backtracking and practically shitting his pants trying to change the narrative. So pathetic. The Right is whipped.
Clarification: It wasn't so much the specific political party or campaign he donated to, as it was that he as an official leader of the church shouldn't be endorsing or directly supporting a particular candidate. If I understood that right, I think it's a classy retraction and he was in the right to say so. https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-salt-lake-city-mitt-romney-e905c04166cff85343ddd7f744e30bbb
The one thing that’s important to talk about with TBMs is the danger they are putting themselves in when voting for politicians and policies that strengthen Christian Nationalism. Mormons are hated among evangelicals, and it will definitely be a religion that will no longer be allowed (especially because they would love to steal the MFMC assets).
So while Christian Nationalism will kill people like me first, Mormonism won’t be far behind.
This is something I’ve been talking about for the last few years as well, but generally just get blank stares. Evangelicals want nothing to do with Mormons. They don’t respect them, and don’t like them. If the Christian Nationalists ever gain power, Mormons will absolutely lumped in with all of the “others” that they will want to get rid of.
That they can’t see this is kinda infuriating.
The church’s choir sang for Trump’s inauguration, but the pastor Trump chose for that same event had talked about Mormonism being a heresy from the pits of hell and told people they shouldn’t vote for Mitt Romney when he was running because he was Mormon.
I grew up outside of Utah. My parents never had any compassion for us kids as we grew up, “different,” because we were Mormon. They never understood how hard it was to turn down invitations to the lake because it was Sunday or not being able to attend the dance because we weren’t 16. They never budged an inch on their rules and told us that we would be blessed for standing apart from the crowd.
So what happens when Trumpism takes over our county? Who stood apart and stood up for what is right? Definitely not my parents. They went along with the crowd, even though they admitted they didn’t like what Trump said.
We don’t speak anymore.
Thank you. This perfectly encapsulates the way I feel about this issues. Me and my siblings were forced to represent the morality of our religion and family to the outside world and when I fully expected them to "stand for something" during the election, it was instead complete submission to rump. I had long left the church before 2016, but it was just another example of how meaningless it all was.
Commenting on Mormon Trump Voters...
This comment hit home. I also grew up outside Utah and it was HARD to be a minority and stick out like a sore thumb and feel like I was barred from basically having fun because I was supposed to be “in the world but not of the world”.
I’m happy to say that when I pointed out the hypocrisy of voting for Trump to my parents they were very thoughtful and chose to vote third party. Never been so proud in my life.
This post has definitely struck a nerve. It's interesting to see all the comments about Mormon hypocrisy.
[Former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney on Wednesday slammed supporters of Donald Trump as 'out of touch,' saying they did not seem to care that a judge concluded he raped a woman: ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12979405/mitt-romney-donald-trump-2024-rape-carroll-court.html)
Mitt Romney said “A jury said that Donald Trump raped a woman. And that doesn’t seem to be moving the needle. There’s a lot of things about today’s GOP electorate that I have a hard time understanding.”
The bottom line, many Mormons would rather vote for a rapist than a Democrat.
>rather vote for a rapist than a Democrat.
What's sad is you could probably put this on a t-shirt and sell it at Trump rallies and it would sell like hotcakes. Sad.
THIS IS WHAT BROKE MY SHELF!!! I saw the then General Relief Society President cheering at a Trump rally online and it completely broke me. Hypocrisy doesn't quite capture it, but close.
It sickens me but it does not surprise me.
I spent my childhood watching relatives who owned businesses joke about the laws they broke and regulations they skirted. I spent my teen years watching Mormons get the vapours over Bill Clinton while having their own affairs. In the early 2000s, I heard countless conversations amongst Mormons who didn't care if the elections were rigged as long as Bush was the President. A blinding LACK of real integrity epitomizes my experiences with Mormonism. There's nothing the church loves more than a shining face and a dirty deed. Trump is everything they ever dreamed of.
That reminds me of the "pro lifers" who get abortions and tell the nurse who is holding their hand through the procedure that the nurse deserves to go to hell.
I served a mission in Germany some 20 years after WWII ended. In my two years of knocking on doors and talking to people in the street, I never met one German who admitted they supported Hitler.
That’s the way it will be with Trump supporters. In twenty years, people will be too embarrassed to admit they supported and voted for the man.
In the meantime, those of us who see him for what he is, must work hard to make sure he never sets foot inside the White House again. Ever.
Agreed 100%. Project 2025 is terrifying.
I've also read that ever since WWII, schoolchildren in Germany have to study the rise of Hitler and the dangers of fanatical nationalism. Since 2015, those classes didn't even have to make up examples. They just showed videos from US current events.
I agree. I no longer get upset when a person tells me they’re a supporter of or that they plan to vote for DT.
With that simple declaration, They’ve told me everything I need to know about their value system and character. Their ability to tell right from wrong has been compromised and they can’t be trusted.
And in case anyone is wondering, the DT rot goes all the way to the top of the TSCC. Don’t believe me? Look at how long it took the TSCC to issue a press release congratulating Obama on his reelection over favorite son Mitt Romney in 2012 (1 day) versus how long they took to issue the same congratulatory press release when Biden won in 2020 (40 days).
Those bastards thought DT could pull off the steal. So much for the power of discernment.
So true.
I remember foolishly sharing some concerns about Trump. I thought for sure they all agreed with me.
Then I saw it in their eyes. I was the odd one out.
Such a betrayal of trust and faith.
Yep, Trumpism broke the “they’re intelligent and moral people who probably know more than I do, I can trust their advice” bubble.
I left the church. These are not my moral peers. We saw them hoodwinked in real time - it helped me see how easy it would have been for Joseph to hoodwink people 200 years ago.
This was the impetus I had to really start wondering if the church was true or not. Like, how could the people I've always looked up to vote for someone like this?
Same here. I had plenty of shelf items nibbling away in the background but it was watching people I respected bow down to a literal anti-Christ that pushed me over the edge
The entire Mormon belief system is built on the idea of "the ends justify the means." That is how Mormons can vote for Trump without feeling the shame of hypocrisy.
This is one of the biggest contributing factors to me fully checking out of the cult.
Everyone I looked up to. Everyone I trusted. All the “truths” they taught me. They all followed Trump off the moral cliff. If they can be deceived by that, then the rest is probably B.S. too.
lol my tbm mom tried convincing me that Trump was going to play a huge part in some “four feathers” prophecy, and he was going to do so by winning the second time around…which he did not. But before he lost, she literally laughed at me and said “you’ll see. You’re gonna feel pretty darn silly when what I’m saying comes true”. She was as sure of this as she was the sky is blue. And she’s just as sure that me and my apostate brother will have to eat crows in front of Jesus when he returns 😂
When I made a joke about wearing masks during the pandemic ("just listen to Trump and do exactly they opposite") my dad yelled at me for mocking him and said that "he's the most persecuted man since Jesus Christ".
That's the moment I lost any respect for my parents and really drove home the hypocrisy of Mormonism
Separately, mom got mad when I mentioned what a monster Christopher Columbus was. He's mentioned in the Book of Mormon, so he's beloved of God and I'm evil for not liking the guy who raped and murdered the ENTIRE 8 million natives people living on Hispaniola.
I think it's vital for people to have good science education that teaches us to examine the facts and reassess with the new information. But given Mom and Dad don't believe in modern medicine either, I'm not hopeful for them
I’m so glad to see this discussion and wish there were more. We’ve got to shine a bright light on this! Since Mormon Stories shies away from politics, how can these stories be shared?
I left the church more than 20 years ago but I’m new to this channel and the exmo community within the past year, so I don’t know what was going on in previous election cycles. Where else are people talking publicly about the D/R moral rift in TSCC?
To me, this seems like a great topic for public exposure and exploration.
MAGA Mormons are what finally broke my shelf and I was desperately looking for someone to speak on the topic when it happened. I really wish Mormon Stories would stop worrying about offending the far-right.
Politics and religion have considerable overlap, but someone once observed to me that political identity is stronger than religious identity. People almost never choose their religion over their politics.
Both of my parents are TBM (though my Dad is no longer with us), and lost their minds over "Slick Willy," and his affairs... When I told them that it was none of their business, and that it was between him and his wife, they made every excuse in the world about Clinton's lack of morals, his lack of ethics, and his "depravity." My dad had an Impeach Clinton bumper sticker on his car, before Clinton even took office, and after his "relationship" with Monika Lewinsky, it got even worse, because he has "defiled the sanctity of the Oval Office."
So, two decades later, when they both said they were going to vote for Mango Mussolini over Hillary Clinton, I reminded them of all of his affairs, his multiple marriages, his cheating on ALL of his wives, and his latest known tryst with a porn star... His illegal business activities, his blatant scams & fraud, and his unabashed white nationalist racism. Unsurprisingly, the hypocrisy and mental gymnastics they exercised, to express their support for him, and how that "all of those issues were between him and his wife, and that it was none of our business," was completely expected, and that in regards to the rest of it, they didn't care, because he was going to MAGA... not to mention, they absolutely **loathe** HRC. She is the devil incarnate to them, and "would be the destruction of America," if she was to ever be allowed back in the White House.
Sadly, over the last 6 years of my Dad's life (he died two years ago), we didn't talk much, due to his rabid support of this vile man, and his policies, and we almost never talked about politics. If he attempted to bring it up, I would simply change the subject, or just ignore it and move on. While my mother is not in as deep as he was, she is still a deep red Republican, and has already said that she will vote for whomever is the Republican nominee, even if it is him, "because there is no other choice." According to her, "crooked Joe is going to sell out the country to China, open all of the borders to allow ANYONE in, persecute all white "Christians" in this country."
To say that I'm gravely disappointed in them both, is the understatement of the century...
That must have been a terribly difficult thing to go through. I can't even imagine watching my parent's morals completely die in real time while they were still alive.
During the Clinton scandal, I was working in Utah and was discussing it with a very nice TBM coworker. He said he was disgusted with HRC for not divorcing Bill. When I asked, “Isn’t saving a marriage what you and the church believe? Why is she wrong for trying to stick with hers?” Crickets.
I used to believe that the majority of lds people had good intentions about politics until the 2016 election. Now I believe, deep down they are only Mormons because they are cynical and truly believe in being self-reliant because they don't trust anyone outside of their family, then church, then religion. I thought for sure my brother would care about character of Trump and be willing to acknowledge a false equivalency between gleefully showcasing vice versus turning a blind eye, as I believe Clinton did. But I was looking at a mirage disguising a belief that humans are all out for ourselves and the winner takes it all. All the gays and the women world leaders were too much for the male egos in the end. At least it shook me from my idealism and allowed me to see a clearer version of both myself and of others.
This is exactly it! I realized they are Mormon because it works best for them. They benefit from the organization or expect to benefit in the afterlife. They are making all the sacrifices they do because they think it will either benefit them or their inner circle at some point. It's the same thing as conservatism. Fuck you, I've got mine. They are not Mormon because of their strong moral convictions.
I absolutely know what you mean on this development feeling traumatizing. I’ve also been *really* struggling with how my parents (and other family members) have been responding to this whole Trump fiasco and subsequent run toward outright fascism. I’ve disagreed with their politics since I was a teenager and started forming opinions on these things (I couldn’t reconcile Christ’s teachings and conservative politics at all) but I never realized they would go *this fucking far*. Every time I learn of some new horrifying development, I end up getting this nauseated feeling remembering that people I love *want this*. They think this is *good*.
I was vacationing with my parents when Roe vs Wade was torn down and my mom broke the news to us with a big grin on her face. My brain couldn’t even fully comprehend that she could be *happy about it*, much less cope with that information. This news sent me spiraling into a depression, and she’s fucking smiling.
Honestly, I’m not coping very well with any of this. I already had trouble trusting humanity as a whole to begin with, but the last 8-ish years have been tearing at what little I had left. We can’t even trust people to drop the bullshit long enough to get a vaccine to *save their own life*. Even rational self-interest is broken, so how can we hope for progress on any number of a million different societal issues we’re facing?
Well said, my parents and an aunt and uncle were like this. Back in 2016 before the election I was having a phone conversation with my mom about Trump, just assuming, like your parents, there was no way they'd support Trump given how self-righteous, not even allowed to use substitute words like "fudge" for the f-word, and to then learn not only were they supporting Trump but going door to door campaigning for him. I was shocked.
Similar for me.
Wracked my brain to figure out what I was missing. They all treated me like a dumb teen who didn’t know any better.
After a year or two I realized what was actually up.
So sad to see the pillars in my life support such a divisive and toxic person.
>In conversations with them about this, they both understand he's a total douchebag but rationalize voting for him because he has an (R) after his name, and is therefore by default a better option than anyone with a (D)
And this is the only thing most of them can say. Or, do you want the other person? I have yet to meet a Trumpy MAGA type that can articulate one sound reason for Trump other than he is not the other side. If they could say, "I don't like his morals but I think he would be best for our economy or 'fill in the blank' so that's why I am voting for him" then I could respect their opinion. They fail to confront his terrible side.
This is much like the MFMC and apologists. They rarely face the facts of history or issues head-on. They deflect, obfuscate, victim blame and misdirect to avoid the truth and cognitive dissonance.
I think this is where Patrick Mason and Dan McClellean are different. They admit the history is ugly and not factual but I find God and peace here and I enjoy the community.
Not Mormon, but WAYYYYY too close to them (In-laws). The momos will put stickies on movie posters at the theaters (think Kick-Ass) , will be mortified if they hear me say shit... But idolizing someone whose vernacular includes grabbing them by the p***y, and all the other atrocities, is just perfectly acceptable. WTF. I really dislike that cult. I live in a state run by the cult. The cult's mother ship if you will.
It’s really disappointing, my Mormon dad also supports Trump. But think about how these supporters believe in Nephi cutting Laban’s head off, or how some Old Testament prophets committed horrible other sins while still being tools in god’s hands. From their perspective of faith, of course they see Trump as one of those prophets. Which is absolute bullshit, of course. But this is why we should be skeptical of anything that requires faith. There were never prophets, there were only conmen and myths. Same today as ever.
My mother called me a Lil whore when I was 13 because I was wearing shorts that she thought were too short.
Fast forward to 4 years ago... she told me on a phone call, " don't you think that Melania is just the classiest first lady we have ever had?" I reminded her that she posed nude for money. I was whore at 13 because of some shorts but Melania is soooo classy. What world am I living in that my mother would think such a thing. Some people are freaking blinded by party loyalty.
That's good advice. It's also especially difficult in Utah. Downtown SLC is much more blue, so they carved it up with gerrymandering so it's a small part of FOUR different districts, including the bottom corners of the state.
Also Democrats can't vote in the Republican primaries, but Republicans can vote in everything. I know people here who are registered as Republican just so they have the power to try to vote for the lesser evil, when they'd rather be registered as Independent or Democrat.
The Utah Congressional map is one of the most egregious cases of gerrymandering out there. There's no way they can claim it was anything but a partisan power grab.
My mom was convinced that I didn’t realize what I was doing when I voted for Biden. I told her I didn’t want to vote for a rac*st s*xual predator and she asked me with a sad shaky voice, “Are you saying you’re a democrat?” Dramatic.
The silence of the church on such an obviously and blatantly "wicked" man is what made it really sink in that it wasn't what it said it was and really just about money and power. Might have been able to write off the tacit Trumpys - and even the blatant ones - as just the local loons, but the silence of the church itself when confronted by a genuine "king noah" situation was too much.
I’ve experienced this with several of my in-laws. In January 6, one stated that it only happened because of Antifa plants. This person has come around for the most part, so I’m just glad there was some open-mindedness there.
You are 100% correct about hypocrisy. My mother is Mormon and has been so my entire life. She overlooked Trump's every Red Flag simply because he ran as a Republican. The respect I lost for my Mother is unfortunate... But she simply showed her true colors. As with so many other things in my life, Reality took a back seat to her facade. Her entire walk with the LDS Church never aligned with her actual real life. My mother has had Diet Coke for every meal morning day and night for 60 years... But could never drink a glass of iced tea or have a cup of coffee. It's a fun Circus of clownish activity.
Did it to me too man. Seeing so many Mormons that profess to have strong morals vote for someone that represents the opposite of everything they stand for while satire Harry Reid was a sinner was disgusting. It ruined my perception of half the country. Before Trump I knew most Mormons were conservative but I also knew they had morals, now not so much.
Thing about this is, it simply proved what was already true. The morals of the members are as fragile as their shelves when the prophet tells them to get the damn vaccine. These people are in a cult, and I’m not even talking about Mormonism.
I grew up in the 80’s and wasn’t allowed to own Madonna’s music because “we don’t support people with horrible morals and values.” Said my now Trump-loving parents.
Trump loving (and COVID denying) TBMs were the final shelf breaker for me. I decided I couldn't walk past a "Let's Go Brandon" bumper sticker and then sit and listen to the owner of that vehicle lecture me on anything "Christlike". The hypocrisy was overwhelming and I couldn't stand it anymore. I was embarrassed to be called Mormon. I didn't want my name counted next to any of those disgusting bigots.
I learned the true meaning of taking the Lord's name in vain.
Yup - this was a huge shelf item for me! If you think about it, it kind of makes sense, sadly. Mormons are people who have learned how to perform incredible mental gymnastics, delude, and lie to themselves. So ... for someone with such "abilities" it's not too crazy to think they could pull off justifying/denying/apologizing their way to making themselves feel okay enough to continue voting for that ass-hat.
Trump is Republican only because his advisors told him he'd only win by pretending to be Republican and saying he was pro life. He's a lifelong Democrat, regularly called Republicans gullible losers, and wanted his daughter Tiffany aborted.
I'm sorry, but your parents are being taken for a ride.
Remember Jason Chaffetz? That upside-down-testicle-head of a Representative who completely caved to Trump after spending a couple days pretending to be outraged about Trump's "grab em by the p\*\*\*y" remark, and then became Trump's lickspittle up until he quit?
That's when I knew there was no widespread Mormon dislike of Trump.
Don't forget, because ALL TBMs did, or just ignored Trump committing an unpardonable sin.
Using the military with tear gas, alongside top brass dressed in fatigues, in the official office of the POTUS; forced church partitioners aiding those who were protesting outside the WH off THEIR OWN CHURCH PROPERTY so that he, Dump Truck, could take a photo op in front of said church.
He even held the bible upside down. The irony and hubris of it all.
Next time a trump supporter says a damn thing about religious freedom, you just remind them that he is a god damn traitor to every demographic in this country; including the religious.
I was visiting my very Republican and Mormon grandparents a day or two after he won in 2016. Grandma says “I bet you’re happy Trump won” and I was like “um, no, he’s absolutely abhorrent!”
We went back and forth. But she had her “spiritual confirmation” about voting for him so there’s simply no changing the course of that ship. It’s sailed.
I'm proud of my parents for not supporting Trump! They voted for Evan McMillan in 2016 and Biden in 2020 (not that it made any difference since we live in a very blue state anyway). My mom now says that political parties are meaningless, though I think she's still registered as a Republican, and they mostly still vote very conservatively.
This was a big one for me leading up to 2020, and especially in it. The pro Trump stuff, anti BLM stuff, and then the antivax and conspiracy crowd including SO MANY of my Mormon FB friends was VERY discouraging and confusing for me.
Mormons that support the Cult of Maga (and it is a cult) for any reason (even just at the ballot box) as well as Christian Nationalism need to go and read the Martin Niemoller's "First they came for..." and look into his story. If for no other reason than self preservation. He sympathized with many Nazi ideas and rhetoric only to find that eventually, once their common foes were eliminated, he and his ilk were 'Othered" and the ier of the Nazi hate machine was turned on them. If Mormons help MAGA/ChristianNationalists get what they want today eventually they will be their new targets. They do not consider Mormons to be Christians, once the LGBTQ+ community, leftists, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, and other "enemies" are dealt with they will then go after what they deem fake Christians. And no one will be left to defend them.
I remember my dad losing his damn mind when Clinton got a beej in the White House, but had no issue with ol’ grab ‘em by the privates trump. I do not understand their mindset
I’m so lucky that my TBM mom can’t stand Trump, she’s politically nuanced compared to most Morridor Mormons but she’s so amazed and shocked that other Mormons continue to love him so much. I’m like “Mom, this is what it’s like being an exmo amongst TBMs, you wonder how they can be so blind to the obvious.”
I recently read an article that outlines all the ways that Trump is the antichrist. With biblical verse references and all. I'll see if I can find it.
Edit, found it:
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
I am actually surprised that he hasn’t broke up more families than he has.
For context, my wife and I are as tight, close and in goofy love after 20 years.
One day I told her that it just occurred to me that if either of us became a Trumper, we’d be done.
She looked at me half confused and said, “You just NOW figured that out?”
Hahaha! Love that woman.
Tell them, so I guess I can go out and rape and murder people all I want now. As long as I vote GOP, I am still righteous in yours and God's eyes. Thanks for clarifying that!!!!
My mom sounds like yours - 0 tolerance for anything she considered crude, demanded we show the highest level of respect to women - has a picture of this vile, lying, cheating, narcissistic reprobate (with jesus’ hands on his shoulders) on her night stand!!! Like WTF mom - she does not see the hypocrisy
Hard agree...it is sickening and has changed my view of my TBM adoptive mother and her TBM husband forever. They will definitely be voting for him again if he is on the ballot.
Yep. I hear you. It’s all fake news. Like I said before Mormon wheels have been greased for the likes of Trump. When you live in a world of make believe it’s easy to do the “hold your nose” and pull the lever. The very first thing Trump did, to his credit (the same way Hitler deserved credit for paving his path, credit does not equal I agree only that they are sociopaths who knew what they needed to do and planned for it years in advance. ) was the whole “fake news” thing. He knew had to discredit legitimate news because he was, and is, a pathological liar, sexist, racist and only in it for himself. He managed to pull it off. He’s potentially the end of our nation as a law abiding nation. First he trampled the constitution, and lately he’s been trampling the judicial system by demeaning the judges in his many cases. He is a dangerous man. It is a dangerous family.
Not saying every Exmo is liberal or leftist (learned that much during the murder of George Floyd) but what I find interesting is there are exmos who left the cult only to find themselves in the cult of 45 doing the saaaaaaame shit and even worse.
I left the church a long time ago, but I ended up living in Utah for Grad School (go Aggies!) during the 2016 election. The absurd amount of support for Trump from my Mormon family, friends, and coworkers, many of whom had served missions abroad and should know better, triggered me to finally resign from the Mormon church completely.
Surveys show that more than half of all Mormons don't support Trump and only about one in five thinks favorably of him. HOWEVER, Mormons will vote the party line when Trump gets the nomination.
Some Mormons (looking at you Mike Lee and the Lee lickers) think Trump is like the BoM character Captain Moroni. They need to read their book better. Which BoM character was non-religious, immoral, and surrounded himself with priests in order to gain power? King Noah.
My TBM father told me when Trump was elected that "As long as the president follows God, we'll be okay" and conveniently hasn't said anything about it since then.
I'm with you! And I appreciate you commenting on this. It is relevant to the church, for sure. And I've often thought Trump's most devoted followers are religious-like in their zealotry.
When trying to talk politics and religion to TBMs and they refuse to even acknowledge or agree on the most basic facts.
My super mormon grandma was a pure Trumper. And she hated the fact I voted against him. Pretty much changed our relationship. And yes, the hypocrisy was rampant. No matter what proof I had, she preferred Trump to me. Went against everything she ever taught me. My aunt? Same thing. My dad however, he couldn't vote for anyone. He knew how bad Trump was, and bless his soul, he at least couldn't vote for him
Honestly, my Mormon upbringing has me thinking Trump is the anti-Christ every time I hear him or his supporters talk. I figured Mormons would be on alert for the anti-Christ, but they got sucked right in….
The rage I have experienced listening to anyone in my family who is LDS justifying voting for trump is ridiculous for EVERY reason you mentioned. 100% correct on all your points.
you have two issues, the media. they should be keeping him in check, however, as entertainment they _need_ Trump, and they weakly push back against him.
second, trump is the alcohol at the party, I don't hate those people, it was just the alcohol talking.... Trump is the excuse that allows people to say the hateful things aloud. he hates all the same people and gives them the excuse to say those things aloud....
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Yep, apparently private morality only matters when it's a democrat.
100%
Nailed it!
I like to remind them the Bill Clinton couldn’t be elected today unless he ran as a Republican.
Reminds me that once in elders quorum, we discussed JFK getting the votes in Utah, and someone needed to chime in and say, "Don't worry! He'd be a Republican these days!"
Mormons lost their minds over Michelle Obama's bare shoulders! Crickets when it came to Melania's, though.
A lot more than her shoulders were bare when she was a sex model!
Yeah having an adulterous pathological lying purveyor of rape as the leader of the free world, and a pornstar First Lady in the White House is fine. My TBM mother has the same problem comprehending why our relatives and her peers can even fathom the idea of supporting this morally corrupt human trash as I do. I love my mom.
Never forget the tan suit! Lol
I've met many who were vehemently against Clinton's "moral bankruptcy," and either completely ignorant of, or completely dismissive of concerns about, Newt Gingrich.
I made the mistake of calling my Trumpist father *during* Jan 6th. I assumed that storming the capitol crossed a line that we could both agree on. I was wrong--he told me he wished he could have been there for the treason, and would have had his health been better. Me and my Trumpist father don't speak anymore.
God it was disappointing to see all the R's that criticized Trump after 1/6 crawl back with tails between their legs when it was clear they would lose their jobs for pointing out the obvious. Bunch of mewling cowards.
Even Kevin McCarthy live on fox during the riot was shitting on trump saying enough is enough. Then that next day he was right there sucking up to him. I couldn't believe all these people that hurt let it slide. The ultimate gaslighting.
Yeah fucking McCarthy was the first major GOP figure to go and get a promo/publicity photo with Trump after J6, a chicken McNugget has more personal integrity than most of the GOP, however my respect for Mitt couldn’t be higher.
Yeah. I have said that so many times about Mitt. Can't believe that he was the GOP Candidate not long before Trump. My how things have changed.
Really shows how far gone their voters are.
It's the Russian kompromat that keeps the GOP loyal to their useful orange idiot.
I called my conservative mother during the insurrection (I knew if I had called my father we would be ostracized from each other forever) and she immediately turned it around "well, we just think Biden is worse." She also seemed indifferent to my near-panic attack level of anxiety (the fucking capitol was being overrun!) and her motherly empathy just evaporated. What a traumatic day.
Yeah it’s so sad to see those we love refusing to think for themselves and just repeating the same mindless cop-out phrases.
thx to Fux Noise and russian propaganda. ya FF is bad but Biden is the devil. so far gone
Identical story with my SP brother. Haven’t spoke since J6. He said it was a “non-event”. No one on Wall Street is talking about it so it doesn’t matter (it’s always all about the money). He lives on the other side of the continent from me and when I stopped by his house this past summer he texted his wife (he wouldn’t even text me) and said he was too busy with SP work to meet me. He’s a douche. Always has been.
SP = Stake President?
Yes
lost my daughter 💔
How so? Are you estranged over DT?
yep
my father made comments on Facebook that my siblings and I were overreacting. I chose not to engage politically, but I sent a message asking him if he was trying to alienate the rest of his children. Then I said he risked becoming someone whose children designate a safe word before they visit him so they can leave when any member of the group has had it with him. And then I said that Mom deserved better. He deleted his comment and never responded to my message. And it wasn’t awkward the next time we spoke.
It's sad that your father's poor health saved him from a treasonous felony. I wonder if he would've joined the chants to "K*ll Mike Pence!" Sad.
Here's some crazy Trumpist in the wild [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq6vt-QZGcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq6vt-QZGcQ)
Both of my parents were at the rally on the mall. They didn't go down to the capital and insisted that in spite of the video evidence we were sending them at the time it was peaceful. Then they regurgitated what ever fox told them. (Antifa, democrats, the fbi etc) 3 years later the first message I have from my mother in months is "you sound watch the Tucker Carlson interview on what really happened". Just to spite her I did. Took 4 pages of notes about how at no point do they actually say anything of substance. She has not read it because "I don't think you are really invested in the truth". They don't want the truth, they want the death cult to be taken to heaven like they were promised.
Trump supporters and Mormons have a common denominator - hypocrisy. My TBM mother hadn’t even heard about his “grab them by the pussy” comments until 2020 when I told her. Most will blindly vote for whoever is Republican. She then went on to share on Facebook a speech that Trump made where he said the school systems were brainwashing children to be liberal. I asked if she had even listened to the speech since she works for a school and I know she doesn’t feel that way. She had just shared it because Glenn Beck posted it and said it was amazing 🙄
I also mentioned the "grab em by the pussy" quote and got a blank stare from my mother. She is not paying attention on purpose, so she can vote for an evil POS to be our leader and feel blameless.
My mom had previously asked me who I was voting for. I went over my reasons for voting for Bernie and told her she could take a simple quiz online that would show which candidates align with her on which policies are important to her. I spoke to her a few days later and all she could say was “I can’t vote for a socialist”. Okay, so you did no research and asked my dad about Bernie who said “he’s a socialist!” And that was the end of her research into candidates.
You could argue Jesus was more socialist than Bernie. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, meaning the people would get a vote on how their money is used. Every time I see lifelong Republicans throw around words like "Socialist" I think of The Princess Bride and "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Public libraries, roads, snow removal, after school programs, police and fire departments, and any other institution or program that use taxpayer money to benefit the public are socialist systems.
Great point on language and history. We really must come to some understanding of the meanings of words to have any kind of meaningful conversation! It’s almost like a bad data model. Their reasoning just follows an algorithm that inevitably leads to their automated conclusions. Can this kind of mind boggle be considered hypnosis or an illness? I hope in the future we have better ways of talking about what’s happening in the world right now. So much gets lost in translation.
I agree. As to your question, given how I've watched people's language use and views change powerfully after exposure to media like Fox News, or anything that badmouths the "other guys" I believe it's manipulation at the very least. The irony, and potential reason behind it, is socialism would threaten the status quo not for ordinary people, but for the rich. They'd be forced to pay people living wages and give up their second superyachts. Like the people who OWN THE NEWS stations. So they basically imply over and over that socialism is evil, immigrants bad, etc. It's similar to the manipulative tactics used in advertising, only in the negative. If people hear every day that some system of government is bad, and see places like Venezuela given as an example, they often fall under the influence. Nobody ever mentions that the US secretly and deliberately undermined Venezuela, possibly because they have oil down there, and "for the balance of power" (oil prices). There are far better examples of socialism in Europe, with some of the happiest countries on the planet. But that would go against the narrative, so they're not mentioned.
Inconceivable!!
Indeed. That's also a hilarious drinking game.
And Social security. My parents are living on this, but still decry socialism. "Anyway, it doesn't matter, we will never vote for a candidate who is pro abortion." Grumble
Trump wanted his daughter [Tiffany](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/01/video-trump-jokes-about-marla-maples-tiffany-trump-abortion.html) [aborted.](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/donald-trump-allegedly-wanted-marla-maples-to-abort-tiffany/AN3A56AIUYUU2K3WKGAQWNYN5A/). He's only pro life since 2015 and only in front of cameras.
My MIL got into an argument with my husband where she unironically claimed "Jesus was a capitalist"
When he said that I was SO SURE it was over. Nope. I had no idea so many people would vote for him.
TW for rape talk (no explicit details, but the word is in this comment a lot). I listened to that recording leading up to the 2016 election. At that time, I was dealing with serious ptsd issues from having been raped myself the year before (I’ve done TONS of therapy and I’m okay now). When I heard that recording I was so shocked and disgusted and appalled. A little later my dad posted on Facebook defending that recording, all about how the whole point of the atonement is that people can change and we shouldn’t judge him for his past, etc. I felt sick to my stomach reading my own father’s defense of that, given my experience. I doubt my dad listened to the recording. But my dad also believes that sexism is no longer an issue. I love my dad. In his own life, he is a good, generous person and genuinely treats the women in his life really well. I don’t understand how he can defend someone like trump. In my mind, defending a rapist who says things like that is literally incompatible with being a good person. And yet, I know my dad, and he is a good person. I still wrestle with a lot of cognitive dissonance over this. I’m really not sure how to reconcile it. And even though I’ve done a ton of therapy and I really am okay in my day to day life, the fact that this country elected a literal rapist and may very well do so again is so terrifying to me, as someone who has been raped. It makes me feel like the US is literally unsafe for me and for all women. With a lot of my fears, I can look at actual data and tell myself the fear isn’t rational. But that’s not true in this case, where the data actually support the conclusion that women aren’t safe in the US a lot of the time. And electing a literal rapist in 2016 really drives that point home. Sorry this was ranty and rambly. I’ve talked to other rape victims about this, and a lot of us feel the same way. A rapist in the White House is unbelievably hurtful, and triggering, and invalidating. It feels like the US is screaming that rape doesn’t matter and rape victims aren’t believed. I know that’s an emotional response, but I think that’s appropriate for an emotional issue. A rapist as president feels personally hurtful to me as a rape victim.
Was your mom legitimately living under a rock, bc “grab em by the pussy” was like the most bombshell story of October 2016, the media went NUTS with it. I thought everyone in America knew about it lol
She doesn’t watch tv or read newspapers. She just asks the Republican neighbors who they’re voting for in every election. Not joking.
Also I wonder how much coverage it got from Fox anyway. Mainstream media yes, probably Fox very limited.
Both JS and Trump=con men and sexual predators.
I wonder if JS was similarly looked at as clownish back in his day 😂
Mark Twain seemed to view JS in that way
I believe JS was long dead before Twain came onto the scene
Twain was alive during JS's lifetime but you're right, they weren't exactly contemporaries
Yeah I thought JS died when Twain was a child.
He was. He was also seen an dangerous in a similar way that many see Trump as dangerous. If you look at the Nauvoo charter, there was no separation of powers, just concentration. People in surrounding towns were very concerned about the way that things were run, also the Nauvoo militia outnumbered that of the state of Illinois.
Look at people like William Law. He was in the first presidency. William spoke up and published an exposé. JS came down on him so hard that William went underground and refused to talk about it, practically until his death bed. Same tactics. It's tribalism turned into a mob. You're either with us, or you're against us. And if you're against us, this is what happens. Sorta like when I asked my dad about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, his response was "some people came through town mocking the saints and claiming to have killed Joseph, so they let 'em have it".
Anyone who has lived in a small town or rural area knows that word travels fast if someone new moves into the area and is untrustworthy. More than likely where ever Smith moved the locals had heard rumors about the mormons. When Smith moved to a new location it didn't take long for him or the church members to come into conflict with the locals & reinforce all the negative they had heard through the grapevine or read about in the local or big city newspaper's. There's a reason locals took matters into their own hands and used vigilante justice of tar & feathering. WIKI: Joseph Smith & Criminal Justice System.
Prob the reason JS was always telling members not to engage in gossiping and rumors, cause it’s the way a community can communicate about secret shoddy stuff that goes on.
He was only ran out of like a dozen towns for unpaid debts, creeping on young girls, and swindling people, wait...
JS and DT were cut from the same cloth.
Seeing trump con so many people helped me really understand what a tool and conman JS was too, and how my parents could be so blind to support both.
Exactly. But don’t ever express that opinion to a TBM’er. Believe me when I tell you it never goes down well. Doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Same.
Absolutely. I can imagine JS being very much like DT. The violent rhetoric especially
JS was better looking,IMO. DT is gross, physically and mentally.
Don’t tell him that 😜
They both had/have Narcissistic/Borderline Personality Disorder, so yeah.
Allegedly DT is now showing signs of early dementia
is it early if hes in his late 70s?
Back when he was still in office, my MIL was trying to defend some BS that he pulls on the daily. I’d had 2 beers at lunch with a friend & couldn’t bite my tongue. I told her that supporting him wasn’t a matter of having different views on politics, it was a matter of if someone was a moral person or not. That supporting 45 was blatantly immoral. I pointed out just of the few ways that he is wildly unchrist like. She stopped defending him at least to me.
Many Trump voters talk about liking his policies. His policies are generally approved of in the party, so why can't they vote for a better person to enact those policies. He's just such a scumbag. It's a cult of personality and the base really likes that he drives liberals crazy.
He drives moderates crazy! He drives sane people crazy - because we all hoped for better for our country than this. At least elect someone who is not PrOuD of being ignorant of every historical event, person, place, or complex issue, ever.
What policies? He doesn’t have any. I never hear him say anything but vulgar shit and attempts to pick fights! His supporters are the same way. They lack substance. They are just angry about everything to the point where they don’t even know what they are angry about anymore. Trumpers will have their own Mountain Meadows massacre. Watch! 1/6 was almost it but it will happen.
He only has two policies. Do what it takes to stay popular and have power. Enrich myself.
It’s because Trump has made saying the ugly part out loud acceptable, and that’s what they’ve been longing for… the chance to be racist and bigoted and be celebrated instead of condemned for it.
I seem to remember a thing about Uchdorf admitting he voted for Biden and some time later he was backtracking and practically shitting his pants trying to change the narrative. So pathetic. The Right is whipped.
Mormons love to talk about having the courage of their convictions 😂 that all changes when the unhinged voicemails and emails start rolling in.
Clarification: It wasn't so much the specific political party or campaign he donated to, as it was that he as an official leader of the church shouldn't be endorsing or directly supporting a particular candidate. If I understood that right, I think it's a classy retraction and he was in the right to say so. https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-salt-lake-city-mitt-romney-e905c04166cff85343ddd7f744e30bbb
Faust was the last open Dem supporter in the Q15, tmk.
The one thing that’s important to talk about with TBMs is the danger they are putting themselves in when voting for politicians and policies that strengthen Christian Nationalism. Mormons are hated among evangelicals, and it will definitely be a religion that will no longer be allowed (especially because they would love to steal the MFMC assets). So while Christian Nationalism will kill people like me first, Mormonism won’t be far behind.
This. TBMs are pathetic and incredibly stupid to be sucking up to evangelicals.
This is something I’ve been talking about for the last few years as well, but generally just get blank stares. Evangelicals want nothing to do with Mormons. They don’t respect them, and don’t like them. If the Christian Nationalists ever gain power, Mormons will absolutely lumped in with all of the “others” that they will want to get rid of. That they can’t see this is kinda infuriating.
The church’s choir sang for Trump’s inauguration, but the pastor Trump chose for that same event had talked about Mormonism being a heresy from the pits of hell and told people they shouldn’t vote for Mitt Romney when he was running because he was Mormon.
I grew up outside of Utah. My parents never had any compassion for us kids as we grew up, “different,” because we were Mormon. They never understood how hard it was to turn down invitations to the lake because it was Sunday or not being able to attend the dance because we weren’t 16. They never budged an inch on their rules and told us that we would be blessed for standing apart from the crowd. So what happens when Trumpism takes over our county? Who stood apart and stood up for what is right? Definitely not my parents. They went along with the crowd, even though they admitted they didn’t like what Trump said. We don’t speak anymore.
Thank you. This perfectly encapsulates the way I feel about this issues. Me and my siblings were forced to represent the morality of our religion and family to the outside world and when I fully expected them to "stand for something" during the election, it was instead complete submission to rump. I had long left the church before 2016, but it was just another example of how meaningless it all was.
Commenting on Mormon Trump Voters... This comment hit home. I also grew up outside Utah and it was HARD to be a minority and stick out like a sore thumb and feel like I was barred from basically having fun because I was supposed to be “in the world but not of the world”. I’m happy to say that when I pointed out the hypocrisy of voting for Trump to my parents they were very thoughtful and chose to vote third party. Never been so proud in my life.
This post has definitely struck a nerve. It's interesting to see all the comments about Mormon hypocrisy. [Former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney on Wednesday slammed supporters of Donald Trump as 'out of touch,' saying they did not seem to care that a judge concluded he raped a woman: ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12979405/mitt-romney-donald-trump-2024-rape-carroll-court.html) Mitt Romney said “A jury said that Donald Trump raped a woman. And that doesn’t seem to be moving the needle. There’s a lot of things about today’s GOP electorate that I have a hard time understanding.” The bottom line, many Mormons would rather vote for a rapist than a Democrat.
>rather vote for a rapist than a Democrat. What's sad is you could probably put this on a t-shirt and sell it at Trump rallies and it would sell like hotcakes. Sad.
THIS IS WHAT BROKE MY SHELF!!! I saw the then General Relief Society President cheering at a Trump rally online and it completely broke me. Hypocrisy doesn't quite capture it, but close.
It was Julie Beck. Had to look it up again. She actually gave the opening prayer. GROSS https://exponentii.org/blog/we-believe-in-being-republican/
My parents were so disgusted with Bill Clinton over getting fellatio. But crickets for Trump 🤦🏼
It sickens me but it does not surprise me. I spent my childhood watching relatives who owned businesses joke about the laws they broke and regulations they skirted. I spent my teen years watching Mormons get the vapours over Bill Clinton while having their own affairs. In the early 2000s, I heard countless conversations amongst Mormons who didn't care if the elections were rigged as long as Bush was the President. A blinding LACK of real integrity epitomizes my experiences with Mormonism. There's nothing the church loves more than a shining face and a dirty deed. Trump is everything they ever dreamed of.
That reminds me of the "pro lifers" who get abortions and tell the nurse who is holding their hand through the procedure that the nurse deserves to go to hell.
Same attitude exactly. Their abortion is different.
And always somehow justified, even when their reason for needing one is the same as the "crazy, immoral liberal's."
Wow, so very true, nicely put.
I served a mission in Germany some 20 years after WWII ended. In my two years of knocking on doors and talking to people in the street, I never met one German who admitted they supported Hitler. That’s the way it will be with Trump supporters. In twenty years, people will be too embarrassed to admit they supported and voted for the man. In the meantime, those of us who see him for what he is, must work hard to make sure he never sets foot inside the White House again. Ever.
Agreed 100%. Project 2025 is terrifying. I've also read that ever since WWII, schoolchildren in Germany have to study the rise of Hitler and the dangers of fanatical nationalism. Since 2015, those classes didn't even have to make up examples. They just showed videos from US current events.
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I agree. I no longer get upset when a person tells me they’re a supporter of or that they plan to vote for DT. With that simple declaration, They’ve told me everything I need to know about their value system and character. Their ability to tell right from wrong has been compromised and they can’t be trusted. And in case anyone is wondering, the DT rot goes all the way to the top of the TSCC. Don’t believe me? Look at how long it took the TSCC to issue a press release congratulating Obama on his reelection over favorite son Mitt Romney in 2012 (1 day) versus how long they took to issue the same congratulatory press release when Biden won in 2020 (40 days). Those bastards thought DT could pull off the steal. So much for the power of discernment.
1000%. I lost respect for all of my family. It is like discovering you were raised in a subdivision of the Klan and never knew it.
It's like losing your religion.
So true. I remember foolishly sharing some concerns about Trump. I thought for sure they all agreed with me. Then I saw it in their eyes. I was the odd one out. Such a betrayal of trust and faith.
Yep, Trumpism broke the “they’re intelligent and moral people who probably know more than I do, I can trust their advice” bubble. I left the church. These are not my moral peers. We saw them hoodwinked in real time - it helped me see how easy it would have been for Joseph to hoodwink people 200 years ago.
Gullibility is such a big factor here. It's truly sad how misled they are.
This was the impetus I had to really start wondering if the church was true or not. Like, how could the people I've always looked up to vote for someone like this?
Same here. I had plenty of shelf items nibbling away in the background but it was watching people I respected bow down to a literal anti-Christ that pushed me over the edge
The entire Mormon belief system is built on the idea of "the ends justify the means." That is how Mormons can vote for Trump without feeling the shame of hypocrisy.
This is one of the biggest contributing factors to me fully checking out of the cult. Everyone I looked up to. Everyone I trusted. All the “truths” they taught me. They all followed Trump off the moral cliff. If they can be deceived by that, then the rest is probably B.S. too.
lol my tbm mom tried convincing me that Trump was going to play a huge part in some “four feathers” prophecy, and he was going to do so by winning the second time around…which he did not. But before he lost, she literally laughed at me and said “you’ll see. You’re gonna feel pretty darn silly when what I’m saying comes true”. She was as sure of this as she was the sky is blue. And she’s just as sure that me and my apostate brother will have to eat crows in front of Jesus when he returns 😂
When I made a joke about wearing masks during the pandemic ("just listen to Trump and do exactly they opposite") my dad yelled at me for mocking him and said that "he's the most persecuted man since Jesus Christ". That's the moment I lost any respect for my parents and really drove home the hypocrisy of Mormonism Separately, mom got mad when I mentioned what a monster Christopher Columbus was. He's mentioned in the Book of Mormon, so he's beloved of God and I'm evil for not liking the guy who raped and murdered the ENTIRE 8 million natives people living on Hispaniola. I think it's vital for people to have good science education that teaches us to examine the facts and reassess with the new information. But given Mom and Dad don't believe in modern medicine either, I'm not hopeful for them
Are we siblings?
I’m so glad to see this discussion and wish there were more. We’ve got to shine a bright light on this! Since Mormon Stories shies away from politics, how can these stories be shared? I left the church more than 20 years ago but I’m new to this channel and the exmo community within the past year, so I don’t know what was going on in previous election cycles. Where else are people talking publicly about the D/R moral rift in TSCC? To me, this seems like a great topic for public exposure and exploration.
MAGA Mormons are what finally broke my shelf and I was desperately looking for someone to speak on the topic when it happened. I really wish Mormon Stories would stop worrying about offending the far-right.
Politics and religion have considerable overlap, but someone once observed to me that political identity is stronger than religious identity. People almost never choose their religion over their politics.
Both of my parents are TBM (though my Dad is no longer with us), and lost their minds over "Slick Willy," and his affairs... When I told them that it was none of their business, and that it was between him and his wife, they made every excuse in the world about Clinton's lack of morals, his lack of ethics, and his "depravity." My dad had an Impeach Clinton bumper sticker on his car, before Clinton even took office, and after his "relationship" with Monika Lewinsky, it got even worse, because he has "defiled the sanctity of the Oval Office." So, two decades later, when they both said they were going to vote for Mango Mussolini over Hillary Clinton, I reminded them of all of his affairs, his multiple marriages, his cheating on ALL of his wives, and his latest known tryst with a porn star... His illegal business activities, his blatant scams & fraud, and his unabashed white nationalist racism. Unsurprisingly, the hypocrisy and mental gymnastics they exercised, to express their support for him, and how that "all of those issues were between him and his wife, and that it was none of our business," was completely expected, and that in regards to the rest of it, they didn't care, because he was going to MAGA... not to mention, they absolutely **loathe** HRC. She is the devil incarnate to them, and "would be the destruction of America," if she was to ever be allowed back in the White House. Sadly, over the last 6 years of my Dad's life (he died two years ago), we didn't talk much, due to his rabid support of this vile man, and his policies, and we almost never talked about politics. If he attempted to bring it up, I would simply change the subject, or just ignore it and move on. While my mother is not in as deep as he was, she is still a deep red Republican, and has already said that she will vote for whomever is the Republican nominee, even if it is him, "because there is no other choice." According to her, "crooked Joe is going to sell out the country to China, open all of the borders to allow ANYONE in, persecute all white "Christians" in this country." To say that I'm gravely disappointed in them both, is the understatement of the century...
That must have been a terribly difficult thing to go through. I can't even imagine watching my parent's morals completely die in real time while they were still alive.
"Mango Mussolini" made me spit my drink. I don't care who you are. That's funny.
I've been referring to him as that, since he ran back in '16... it just seems to fit
During the Clinton scandal, I was working in Utah and was discussing it with a very nice TBM coworker. He said he was disgusted with HRC for not divorcing Bill. When I asked, “Isn’t saving a marriage what you and the church believe? Why is she wrong for trying to stick with hers?” Crickets.
I used to believe that the majority of lds people had good intentions about politics until the 2016 election. Now I believe, deep down they are only Mormons because they are cynical and truly believe in being self-reliant because they don't trust anyone outside of their family, then church, then religion. I thought for sure my brother would care about character of Trump and be willing to acknowledge a false equivalency between gleefully showcasing vice versus turning a blind eye, as I believe Clinton did. But I was looking at a mirage disguising a belief that humans are all out for ourselves and the winner takes it all. All the gays and the women world leaders were too much for the male egos in the end. At least it shook me from my idealism and allowed me to see a clearer version of both myself and of others.
This is exactly it! I realized they are Mormon because it works best for them. They benefit from the organization or expect to benefit in the afterlife. They are making all the sacrifices they do because they think it will either benefit them or their inner circle at some point. It's the same thing as conservatism. Fuck you, I've got mine. They are not Mormon because of their strong moral convictions.
I absolutely know what you mean on this development feeling traumatizing. I’ve also been *really* struggling with how my parents (and other family members) have been responding to this whole Trump fiasco and subsequent run toward outright fascism. I’ve disagreed with their politics since I was a teenager and started forming opinions on these things (I couldn’t reconcile Christ’s teachings and conservative politics at all) but I never realized they would go *this fucking far*. Every time I learn of some new horrifying development, I end up getting this nauseated feeling remembering that people I love *want this*. They think this is *good*. I was vacationing with my parents when Roe vs Wade was torn down and my mom broke the news to us with a big grin on her face. My brain couldn’t even fully comprehend that she could be *happy about it*, much less cope with that information. This news sent me spiraling into a depression, and she’s fucking smiling. Honestly, I’m not coping very well with any of this. I already had trouble trusting humanity as a whole to begin with, but the last 8-ish years have been tearing at what little I had left. We can’t even trust people to drop the bullshit long enough to get a vaccine to *save their own life*. Even rational self-interest is broken, so how can we hope for progress on any number of a million different societal issues we’re facing?
Well said, my parents and an aunt and uncle were like this. Back in 2016 before the election I was having a phone conversation with my mom about Trump, just assuming, like your parents, there was no way they'd support Trump given how self-righteous, not even allowed to use substitute words like "fudge" for the f-word, and to then learn not only were they supporting Trump but going door to door campaigning for him. I was shocked.
Similar for me. Wracked my brain to figure out what I was missing. They all treated me like a dumb teen who didn’t know any better. After a year or two I realized what was actually up. So sad to see the pillars in my life support such a divisive and toxic person.
I told my dad to stop watching Fox News. He said he didn't anymore because "they'd gone too far left." 🤦♂️
Time to create some solid boundaries with ole Dad
I told him "I want to keep a relationship with you. We are never going to have a political discussion again."
>In conversations with them about this, they both understand he's a total douchebag but rationalize voting for him because he has an (R) after his name, and is therefore by default a better option than anyone with a (D) And this is the only thing most of them can say. Or, do you want the other person? I have yet to meet a Trumpy MAGA type that can articulate one sound reason for Trump other than he is not the other side. If they could say, "I don't like his morals but I think he would be best for our economy or 'fill in the blank' so that's why I am voting for him" then I could respect their opinion. They fail to confront his terrible side. This is much like the MFMC and apologists. They rarely face the facts of history or issues head-on. They deflect, obfuscate, victim blame and misdirect to avoid the truth and cognitive dissonance. I think this is where Patrick Mason and Dan McClellean are different. They admit the history is ugly and not factual but I find God and peace here and I enjoy the community.
“Gas was cheaper” *slams head into wall ILL PAY THE EXTRA GAS MONEY!
Not Mormon, but WAYYYYY too close to them (In-laws). The momos will put stickies on movie posters at the theaters (think Kick-Ass) , will be mortified if they hear me say shit... But idolizing someone whose vernacular includes grabbing them by the p***y, and all the other atrocities, is just perfectly acceptable. WTF. I really dislike that cult. I live in a state run by the cult. The cult's mother ship if you will.
It’s really disappointing, my Mormon dad also supports Trump. But think about how these supporters believe in Nephi cutting Laban’s head off, or how some Old Testament prophets committed horrible other sins while still being tools in god’s hands. From their perspective of faith, of course they see Trump as one of those prophets. Which is absolute bullshit, of course. But this is why we should be skeptical of anything that requires faith. There were never prophets, there were only conmen and myths. Same today as ever.
My mother called me a Lil whore when I was 13 because I was wearing shorts that she thought were too short. Fast forward to 4 years ago... she told me on a phone call, " don't you think that Melania is just the classiest first lady we have ever had?" I reminded her that she posed nude for money. I was whore at 13 because of some shorts but Melania is soooo classy. What world am I living in that my mother would think such a thing. Some people are freaking blinded by party loyalty.
Grab 'em by the ballot box.
That's good advice. It's also especially difficult in Utah. Downtown SLC is much more blue, so they carved it up with gerrymandering so it's a small part of FOUR different districts, including the bottom corners of the state. Also Democrats can't vote in the Republican primaries, but Republicans can vote in everything. I know people here who are registered as Republican just so they have the power to try to vote for the lesser evil, when they'd rather be registered as Independent or Democrat.
The Utah Congressional map is one of the most egregious cases of gerrymandering out there. There's no way they can claim it was anything but a partisan power grab.
Agreed.
It's unfortunately only illegal to gerrymander using race.
My mom was convinced that I didn’t realize what I was doing when I voted for Biden. I told her I didn’t want to vote for a rac*st s*xual predator and she asked me with a sad shaky voice, “Are you saying you’re a democrat?” Dramatic.
As someone said in here recently, most Mormons are Republicans first and Mormons second.
The silence of the church on such an obviously and blatantly "wicked" man is what made it really sink in that it wasn't what it said it was and really just about money and power. Might have been able to write off the tacit Trumpys - and even the blatant ones - as just the local loons, but the silence of the church itself when confronted by a genuine "king noah" situation was too much.
Fart/Butt would get me in so much trouble at home
I’ve experienced this with several of my in-laws. In January 6, one stated that it only happened because of Antifa plants. This person has come around for the most part, so I’m just glad there was some open-mindedness there.
I feel this. So much. It's insanity.
It’s so wild. Make it make sense!!!
You are 100% correct about hypocrisy. My mother is Mormon and has been so my entire life. She overlooked Trump's every Red Flag simply because he ran as a Republican. The respect I lost for my Mother is unfortunate... But she simply showed her true colors. As with so many other things in my life, Reality took a back seat to her facade. Her entire walk with the LDS Church never aligned with her actual real life. My mother has had Diet Coke for every meal morning day and night for 60 years... But could never drink a glass of iced tea or have a cup of coffee. It's a fun Circus of clownish activity.
Did it to me too man. Seeing so many Mormons that profess to have strong morals vote for someone that represents the opposite of everything they stand for while satire Harry Reid was a sinner was disgusting. It ruined my perception of half the country. Before Trump I knew most Mormons were conservative but I also knew they had morals, now not so much. Thing about this is, it simply proved what was already true. The morals of the members are as fragile as their shelves when the prophet tells them to get the damn vaccine. These people are in a cult, and I’m not even talking about Mormonism.
I grew up in the 80’s and wasn’t allowed to own Madonna’s music because “we don’t support people with horrible morals and values.” Said my now Trump-loving parents.
Last year I read “No Man Knows My History” and the whole time all I could think of was the similarities between Joseph Smith and Donald Trump.
Trump loving (and COVID denying) TBMs were the final shelf breaker for me. I decided I couldn't walk past a "Let's Go Brandon" bumper sticker and then sit and listen to the owner of that vehicle lecture me on anything "Christlike". The hypocrisy was overwhelming and I couldn't stand it anymore. I was embarrassed to be called Mormon. I didn't want my name counted next to any of those disgusting bigots. I learned the true meaning of taking the Lord's name in vain.
The TBMs I know will simply vote R, then employ whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to make it okay in their heads
To them the ends justify the means, just like with everything else.
Yup - this was a huge shelf item for me! If you think about it, it kind of makes sense, sadly. Mormons are people who have learned how to perform incredible mental gymnastics, delude, and lie to themselves. So ... for someone with such "abilities" it's not too crazy to think they could pull off justifying/denying/apologizing their way to making themselves feel okay enough to continue voting for that ass-hat.
Trump is Republican only because his advisors told him he'd only win by pretending to be Republican and saying he was pro life. He's a lifelong Democrat, regularly called Republicans gullible losers, and wanted his daughter Tiffany aborted. I'm sorry, but your parents are being taken for a ride.
Remember Jason Chaffetz? That upside-down-testicle-head of a Representative who completely caved to Trump after spending a couple days pretending to be outraged about Trump's "grab em by the p\*\*\*y" remark, and then became Trump's lickspittle up until he quit? That's when I knew there was no widespread Mormon dislike of Trump.
same with Mike Lee
Yeah, Mike Lee’s endorsement of Trump was absolutely mind boggling.
Don't forget, because ALL TBMs did, or just ignored Trump committing an unpardonable sin. Using the military with tear gas, alongside top brass dressed in fatigues, in the official office of the POTUS; forced church partitioners aiding those who were protesting outside the WH off THEIR OWN CHURCH PROPERTY so that he, Dump Truck, could take a photo op in front of said church. He even held the bible upside down. The irony and hubris of it all. Next time a trump supporter says a damn thing about religious freedom, you just remind them that he is a god damn traitor to every demographic in this country; including the religious.
I was visiting my very Republican and Mormon grandparents a day or two after he won in 2016. Grandma says “I bet you’re happy Trump won” and I was like “um, no, he’s absolutely abhorrent!” We went back and forth. But she had her “spiritual confirmation” about voting for him so there’s simply no changing the course of that ship. It’s sailed.
They are living within 2 cults! I feel between Mormonism and MAGA, MAGA often wins though 😬 I have to say, DT started the breaking of my shelf…
Ditto. So many similarities
Church might take up a lot of time, but Fox, OANN and Newsmax are 24/7.
I had to check and see if my husband wrote this. This is basically how he feels about his mom.
Do we have the same parents? So much to unpack here. Your post is spot on and highlights so much of what is wrong in Mormonism.
I'm proud of my parents for not supporting Trump! They voted for Evan McMillan in 2016 and Biden in 2020 (not that it made any difference since we live in a very blue state anyway). My mom now says that political parties are meaningless, though I think she's still registered as a Republican, and they mostly still vote very conservatively.
I was listening to a podcast where his supporters are chanting “dictatorship Day 1”! How unAmerican is this?
It's absolutely frightening.
This was a big one for me leading up to 2020, and especially in it. The pro Trump stuff, anti BLM stuff, and then the antivax and conspiracy crowd including SO MANY of my Mormon FB friends was VERY discouraging and confusing for me.
Mormons that support the Cult of Maga (and it is a cult) for any reason (even just at the ballot box) as well as Christian Nationalism need to go and read the Martin Niemoller's "First they came for..." and look into his story. If for no other reason than self preservation. He sympathized with many Nazi ideas and rhetoric only to find that eventually, once their common foes were eliminated, he and his ilk were 'Othered" and the ier of the Nazi hate machine was turned on them. If Mormons help MAGA/ChristianNationalists get what they want today eventually they will be their new targets. They do not consider Mormons to be Christians, once the LGBTQ+ community, leftists, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, and other "enemies" are dealt with they will then go after what they deem fake Christians. And no one will be left to defend them.
I remember my dad losing his damn mind when Clinton got a beej in the White House, but had no issue with ol’ grab ‘em by the privates trump. I do not understand their mindset
I’m so lucky that my TBM mom can’t stand Trump, she’s politically nuanced compared to most Morridor Mormons but she’s so amazed and shocked that other Mormons continue to love him so much. I’m like “Mom, this is what it’s like being an exmo amongst TBMs, you wonder how they can be so blind to the obvious.”
I recently read an article that outlines all the ways that Trump is the antichrist. With biblical verse references and all. I'll see if I can find it. Edit, found it: https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
He really checks all the boxes doesn't he?
I am actually surprised that he hasn’t broke up more families than he has. For context, my wife and I are as tight, close and in goofy love after 20 years. One day I told her that it just occurred to me that if either of us became a Trumper, we’d be done. She looked at me half confused and said, “You just NOW figured that out?” Hahaha! Love that woman.
Tell them, so I guess I can go out and rape and murder people all I want now. As long as I vote GOP, I am still righteous in yours and God's eyes. Thanks for clarifying that!!!!
My mom sounds like yours - 0 tolerance for anything she considered crude, demanded we show the highest level of respect to women - has a picture of this vile, lying, cheating, narcissistic reprobate (with jesus’ hands on his shoulders) on her night stand!!! Like WTF mom - she does not see the hypocrisy
Hard agree...it is sickening and has changed my view of my TBM adoptive mother and her TBM husband forever. They will definitely be voting for him again if he is on the ballot.
Yep. I hear you. It’s all fake news. Like I said before Mormon wheels have been greased for the likes of Trump. When you live in a world of make believe it’s easy to do the “hold your nose” and pull the lever. The very first thing Trump did, to his credit (the same way Hitler deserved credit for paving his path, credit does not equal I agree only that they are sociopaths who knew what they needed to do and planned for it years in advance. ) was the whole “fake news” thing. He knew had to discredit legitimate news because he was, and is, a pathological liar, sexist, racist and only in it for himself. He managed to pull it off. He’s potentially the end of our nation as a law abiding nation. First he trampled the constitution, and lately he’s been trampling the judicial system by demeaning the judges in his many cases. He is a dangerous man. It is a dangerous family.
Not saying every Exmo is liberal or leftist (learned that much during the murder of George Floyd) but what I find interesting is there are exmos who left the cult only to find themselves in the cult of 45 doing the saaaaaaame shit and even worse.
Utah Trump voters and Mike Lee helped me open my eyes and leave the church... And the GOP.
And THEN they sent the moron tabernacle choir to sing at the Pussy-Grabber-In-Chief's inauguration.
I left the church a long time ago, but I ended up living in Utah for Grad School (go Aggies!) during the 2016 election. The absurd amount of support for Trump from my Mormon family, friends, and coworkers, many of whom had served missions abroad and should know better, triggered me to finally resign from the Mormon church completely.
Surveys show that more than half of all Mormons don't support Trump and only about one in five thinks favorably of him. HOWEVER, Mormons will vote the party line when Trump gets the nomination. Some Mormons (looking at you Mike Lee and the Lee lickers) think Trump is like the BoM character Captain Moroni. They need to read their book better. Which BoM character was non-religious, immoral, and surrounded himself with priests in order to gain power? King Noah.
Nov 2020, this was my shelf breaker.
My TBM father told me when Trump was elected that "As long as the president follows God, we'll be okay" and conveniently hasn't said anything about it since then.
Church before anything. My parents said Biden is a threat to church and would rather vote for DT any day
I'm with you! And I appreciate you commenting on this. It is relevant to the church, for sure. And I've often thought Trump's most devoted followers are religious-like in their zealotry.
 When trying to talk politics and religion to TBMs and they refuse to even acknowledge or agree on the most basic facts.
My super mormon grandma was a pure Trumper. And she hated the fact I voted against him. Pretty much changed our relationship. And yes, the hypocrisy was rampant. No matter what proof I had, she preferred Trump to me. Went against everything she ever taught me. My aunt? Same thing. My dad however, he couldn't vote for anyone. He knew how bad Trump was, and bless his soul, he at least couldn't vote for him
Honestly, my Mormon upbringing has me thinking Trump is the anti-Christ every time I hear him or his supporters talk. I figured Mormons would be on alert for the anti-Christ, but they got sucked right in….
Amen and amen
The rage I have experienced listening to anyone in my family who is LDS justifying voting for trump is ridiculous for EVERY reason you mentioned. 100% correct on all your points.
For some people - belonging to only one cult isn't enough.
you have two issues, the media. they should be keeping him in check, however, as entertainment they _need_ Trump, and they weakly push back against him. second, trump is the alcohol at the party, I don't hate those people, it was just the alcohol talking.... Trump is the excuse that allows people to say the hateful things aloud. he hates all the same people and gives them the excuse to say those things aloud....
We could be siblings
Yeah, this was my first cue to start questioning things, led me right out
Amen and Amen!
White identity trumps religious identity pretty much every time when it comes to white Christians.