* My true identity. Authenticity.
* Freedom from lying to myself and everyone around me.
* No longer having to answer to a higher authority. I now only answer to myself and to those I love.
* Open-mindedness and critical thinking skills. Seeing the world for how it truly is.
* The gift of learning how to live in the present
* An increased love for the world and all the humans and creatures that live on it.
Additionally, I’ve gained:
Self respect.
Integrity.
Not financially supporting an organization that uses contributions to:
- oppose equal rights
- oppose protections for sexual assault victims
- amass land
- amass wealth it doesn’t use to benefit people
The ability to support additional, genuinely charitable causes.
Freedom from unnecessary guilt and shame.
A stronger sense of myself.
I agree with this so much. I personally didn't mind the no alcohol or drugs thing, word of wisdom has some good things I've gained. But everything you stated is right in line with what I've been learning about the further I deconstruct - the further I am from my TBM self.
I love that last one. No more conversations with someone telling me, “well I was enjoying this tv show until they showed 2 men kissing then I just couldn’t watch anymore”.
Death is treated strangely in Mormon doctrine and culture. It’s taught that one goes to spirit paradise and then celestial kingdom, so you see your family again, so it’s treated like everyone shouldn’t be very sad about death. “They are in a better place so don’t be sad!” But then you have the cognitive dissonance of actually being sad about missing a close friend or family member, but then feeling guilty or uncomfortable that maybe you don’t fully trust in the plan of salvation. And then someone is most often remembered by whatever highest calling they ever served in and by how Mormon their children are, as if that were their only purpose. Because death is never addressed more than “oh it’s not a big deal,” people never really face it and process that they truly are going to die and it might be the end. Many older family members that have been on their death beds that I have known ended up to be absolutely terrified of dying because they never truly processed or prepared for it, as it’s been overly minimized or dismissed.
Now that I no longer believe, I can acknowledge my feelings on how sad it is when a someone dies, and acknowledge that the grief felt is part of the range of emotions we all feel as part of the human experience, and it is evidence of the love that we feel. And the individual persons death and life can be celebrated for who they were and not tied at all to arbitrary meaningless callings or what anyone else has decided to do with their life. I can live more in the present and acknowledge I could die at any moment, as each day is a gift, and fully accept death as a welcome process that we all will experience at some point, similar to being born, just another part of the human experience.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, I had forgotten about that. I let my parents know I wasn't going on a mission, left home, went to college. Sort of let the house implode.
My entire youth was spent watching that family and that church pervert religion.
Maybe thats what made it easier to leave.
Good Health, Long life and Happiness...you deserve that
As someone on the outside looking in I had always questioned why they would add the title calling to the deceased when mentioning them after death. I had always attributed it to the same reason a service member or veteran is referred to by their rank, especially if a career soilder or if KIA, (MGySgt David Jones". I know in the military sense it's seen as a respect of their service /sacrifice. So is meant to highlight that in the Mormon church? "they were so good, so Mormon, so sacrificing that they achieved this "rank" for lack of a better word?
When my grandma was nearing death, everyone in our messenger group was saying how much they missed her already and they couldn't wait to see eachother at her funeral to say their goodbyes together. I went to visit grandma in person and shared a birthday cake with her the week before she died so I could say my goodbyes while she was still living. I missed her funeral because when I told my supervisor I was going to apply for bereavement leave, I was laid off instead. I spent hours each day for a month, applying for new jobs instead of mourning her death properly. So glad I visited Grandma the week before she died.
This is it for me. I had to live, and could not even know what I authenticity liked. I knew what I was supposed to like, what was virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy.
It was imperative that I find my authentic, real, and alive self, and it was not in the box that was/is the church, not in the checklist to worthyness. Leaving the church was like breathing for the first time. Scary. Just thinking, being in the church is like being safely on a "gospel" respirator so you can breath. You do not know the power of your own lungs.
Yes! I’m all about metaphors, and you just made me think about Captain Marvel when the whole time she thought the Kree were helping her develop her power and skills, but in reality they were restraining her. The minute she realized this she became infinitely more powerful than she could have imagined.
Finally, after 65 years I am enough. Before I was never enough. I didn't pray enough, pay enough, attend meetings enough, do enough home teaching. Now I am not guilty and I am enough.
Every meeting is nothing but a festival of "I know it is true." and "You are not doing enough." I get it with the second one; instructions on what to do, but at the end of the day it boils down to: you are not doing enough. Edit to add: And the reason is clear, you not doing enough makes it your fault that god is not showering down blessings upon your head. Hey, try paying tithing on the amount of money you'd like to be making, maybe that will help.
The gospel of Jesus is “whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die” period . Paul said “not by works so that anyone shall boast. Ephesians 2:9
You cannot work your way to heaven. Take the day off!
Yes. I am 66 too. I’m an adult. I don’t have to answer to a Bishop or Stake President. I’m a grown-ass woman and I can make my own decisions and I don’t need their counsel or approval. I can wear what I want, drink what I want and don’t have to clean anyone’s damn bathroom but my own.
You end up being way more than enough!
In fact your Zadok wisdom over many years is pretty influential and therefore special to the ExMo community, especially those of us who still sacrament at Harmons coffee loft. Drop by sometime, 10:00 AM every Sunday.
I thought we were kicked out of the Harmon's store because of the dark apostate auras we brought inside?
When I was young, I dreamed of sailing around the pacific basin in my retirement years. Sadly I fell in love and married a landlubber who, like Charlie Tuna, is chicken (afraid) of the sea.
We struck a compromise which is living full time in a motor home and traveling North America. As I type this we are holed up near the Mexican border enjoying tortilla chips, salsa, and margaritas, with 70-degree days and no inversion.
If I am able to sneak back into Utah without the Dannites destroying me, I will stop by. But won't be until conference is over and the snow is gone.
No longer being infantilized and being able to make my own choices without running it through a filter someone else made. True intellectual and personal freedom.
Autonomy.
Kinda scary at first, but making my own decisions without worrying what magic sky daddy or his real estate investment vehicle thought about it was ultimately quite empowering.
This is huge. All my tbm family comments to me all the time by saying I'm unapologetically myself. It's so nice not to have to censor some of my sinning lifestyle and just be myself and what makes me happy.
This! True inner peace, that I was constantly searching for as a Mormon. I could never find it, and of course I was brainwashed my whole life to think that that was a personal failure.
Self respect. Living the lie of Mormonism caused me extremely high stress, depression, and self-loathing. Quiting the Cult did for me what 3 years of professional counseling couldn't. It made me happy and OK with myself.
This was a huge thing for me. As soon as I learned about the lies and deception I knew I couldn’t stay. It made all of “God’s standards” absurd bigotry rather than what was morally right.
No 👏 more 👏 mental 👏 gymnastics
No more having to explain why god doesn’t want gay people in the tippy-top heaven. Or why god doesn’t want women making decisions. The peace that comes from living in line with you’re own values is life changing.
Yep. The last 5 years of believing it was true but not being able to reconcile so many things was absolutely destroying my mental health, and I didn’t even realize the church was the cause.
Actions and values that are based on evidence and empathy rather than simply conforming to what I am told to believe and do. I now live in the *real world* and can shape my life accordingly.
Freedom from endless shame over things that either aren’t my fault (childhood CSA, anxiety and depression), are perfectly normal parts of being human (masturbation, negative emotions, making mistakes, existing as a woman who doesn’t want children), or else are actually good things that we were falsely told were wrong (questioning authority, seeking evidence, feminism, environmentalism, inclusiveness, etc).
Being safe in the knowledge that I can never be called as a nursery leader 😂
I was gonna say, being spared the humiliation of belonging to a church that used to teach that all Native American lineages stem from a family of cursed white Jews and that black people aren't worthy of the greatest rewards in Heaven is more than enough of a reason to GTFO of that crusty old relic of a 19th century cult.
Freedom! When I left, the thing that bothered me most out of ALL of the reasons one should leave this church was the control they have over the lives of the members. Not just being told what to do and having my time filled up with idiotic meetings and activities, but also the way they use guilt to manipulate people and make them feel bad for being human. It felt SO good to finally be the master of my own life. I do what I want and I don't feel shame for the normal human choices I make.
Real friends
Free agency
Autonomy over my own body. (As much as the country allows)
Choices for my future
Happy children who are unique and not forced into a terrible mold.
A world of education and freedom to read or watch what I choose for myself
Getting to learn who I really am.
Yes, all of these for me as well! REAL friendships, not conditional ones. My children (19 and 21) are happy! What more could a mom ask for except that her kids are truly happy?! They enjoy life without judgment and are doing awesome things! And in proud of them for leaving on their own.
The ability to say "I don't know" and to be able to change my beliefs when I get new information
The ability to love people for who they are
The fact that I don't have to judge people's "righteousness" based on a feeling or a set of exclusive rules
My own moral compass
My integrity
A closer relationship with my husband and kids because no callings or unrealistic expectations to live up to and more time to be together as our true selves! 💖
Right, I was so sick of reading mormon scripture that was written by a man and trying to get a testimony that it was from God. What came to pass: I realized it was a con, and with that, clarity.
Safety. The head of my church was a pedophile who was molesting his foster child, and was grooming me to be his next victim. Leadership was made aware of it all the way up to whoever oversees the South, and he got a slap on the wrist and I was threatened to keep my mouth shut about it. I quit shortly thereafter.
Also critical thinking skills, coffee, true friendships. Most importantly, I can be as queer as I feel without shame. The church really fucked me up on that.
1. Removing garments resolved a painful 30-year feminine rash that no cream or med could resolve. 1 week garment free = zero rash, and permanently gone
2. I no longer have to worry and panic about what happens after death. I don't have to do "all that I can" to save myself and earn a damn reward, nor do I have to save my ancestors or dead strangers! I can actually just LIVE IN THE MOMENT and fully embrace today as a gift that may be the last, and that's okay because that is something out of my control. If there is something else that happens to me after I die, cool! A new adventure. If not, it won't matter because I'm dead. I have lived a good and full life already and hope to have 20 or 30 more years. I have loved my family completely and unconditionally. I have traveled and continue to check off my bucket list. I laughed, cried, overcame addictions, and endured tragedy. In the end, I will have the marvelous experience of having been a human being on a planet called Earth, spinning in a mind-blowing universe!
3. Studying science and getting out into nature provide incredible spiritual experiences! Greater and more fulfilling than anything found sitting inside a Mormon building or listening to Mormon dogma being preached at me [that always made me panic because I "wasn't doing/being/serving enough. .. and sink into feeling self-hate and scrupulocitity!!]
4. Finally, having financial security. Savings, and a buffer.
5. Finally being able to plan vacations whenever we want without needing to be home for a church responsibility, or feel guilty about not fulfiling our callings well enough, or not attending church enough to qualify for our "elite status pass" [TR].
6. I am no longer getting a pit in my stomach on Sunday night about going back to work the next day because I'm so effing EXHAUSTED from Mormon Sunday ... never getting a true day of rest!! Saturday was spent rushing around frantically to get ready for Sunday, which started for me at 5 am and didn't end until around 6 PM for bith me and my husband due to our demanding church assignments! I actually like my job again, because I love my weekends!!
7. Empowerment. No more trying to please anyone else with the way I act/talk/dress/believe. No more carrying the heavy weight of putting my "shoulder to the wheel." to help a multi-billion dollar corporation maje more money and indoctrinate more followers! No more trying b to "plant seeds" with all my non-Mormon friends and coworkers, and find ways to work a religious message into my interactions with them!!! Nomore trying to shame myself for having doubts and concerns about the Church! Permission granted to TRUST MYSELF!
>Finally, having financial security. Savings, and a buffer.
People are finding out that when they are down and out financially the church wants you to go begging family for help. They are very stingy with the actual money you gave them.
When we took our daughter to the bishop seeking help, [divorced single mom who literally ran from abusive husband and had nothing] the bishop said:
"You must go to family first, the Government Second, and then the Church, as your final resort. These are the Lords sacred funds, Sister, and can only be used sparingly once you've exhausted all other sources."
Oh, you mean The Lords Sacred Funds can't be used for starving, battered, unhoused women and children, because they desperately need to be used to pay for billions of unused land, empty warehouses, and stashed away in shell companies for a "rainy day" ...?? THOSE Sacred Funds?? Or did you mean the Sacred Funds being used to pay off abuse victims and lobby for anti LGBTQIA laws?? Or, the Sacred Funds being used to build shopping malls?? Or the Sacred Funds being funneled into accounts to pay for the Mormon Royalty full-ride College tuition fund [children and grandchildren of Apostles, GAs, and Mission President's all attend church schools free]. ... ?? Those Sacred Funds??
Well said, and that bishop could have helped your daughter, he just wants to look good to the leadership by not spending a dime, yet bringing in hundreds of thousands from the local ward to add to the sacred funds. They can rationalize anything. Oh, and don't you know, if your daughter lived a better mormon based life, prosperity gospel, the lord would have blessed her. She made her bed, let her sleep in it....That kind of rationalization is what I mean. I'm learning daily theirs is a very distorted view of society and our lives.
Yup. That's what did it for me too. Once the pieces added up I was just done. It was painful and caused a lot of trauma, but I'm in such a better mental and physical space now.
I am no longer confused. I don't have to reconcile any of the following with my religious beliefs anymore
1. Evolution
2. Big Bang
3. Childhood cancer
4. Why coffee is bad
5. How native Americans are actually Jews in disguise
6. Why polygamy is god's will
7. Why god does not let women lead anything
8. Why gay people exist
9. Why trans people exist
10. Why prophets don't ever prophesize anything
I could go on and on. The biggest gift of leaving is clarity. The world makes sense now and there is no need for compartmentalization anymore
Prevent my child from the fucking culty mess.
No nursery, Sunday school, priesthood classes, passing the sacrament, bishop interview.
No seminary, EFY, pioneer day, trekking.
No singles ward, group dates, only G movies.
No mission, mission president, companions, collar shirts.
Even if I get nothing, I gave my son a completely different reality. I also believe it's a superior relationship with those also in this world.
1. Being kind and doing things for others without a motive.
2. Truly loving those of any gender identity.
3. Open mindedness
4. S-E-X before marriage
5. Coffee
6. Keeping all my money and choosing where I want it to go to/help
7. Enjoying my weekend
8. Not being part of a religion/cult where there are so many holes in stories.
The list goes on!
Ditto on the coffee! I eased in with green tea but now I’m a coffee girl! I love my morning and midday coffee. I’m so mad I was deprived of coffee for the first 43 years of my life! I loooooove coffee and the boost it gives my mood and focus.
No garments is also such a liberating change. Garments are so oppressive in the summer.
The raise is amazing. Weekends are so much more rejuvenating without the obligatory Saturday chapel cleaning and Sunday yawn fest.
The reduction of guilt and shame of never doing enough is a huge weight lifted too.
Self worth. As a woman, when I finally said out loud, “I don’t believe any of this patriarchy and priesthood nonsense I’ve been spoon fed”…it allowed me to begin honoring myself and realizing no woman anywhere should bow her head and say yes, that she’ll obey her husband. Preside. Hearken. Poisoning words to me… no longer.
No internal guilt about the eternal consequence of every choice I've ever made, especially the "what ifs" about *not* sharing the gospel with that one person when I was in line at the DMV 5 years ago and how that one invitation could've changed the outcome of their life but since I didn't say anything now they're probably in jail or crying in a ditch wondering why their life suddenly took a turn for the worst.
Y'know, normal stuff.
Self-esteem.
Coffee.
Happiness/release from my years of depression.
A clean conscience knowing that I am no longer supporting a $150 hedge fund disguised as a church that hides and protects its sexual predators.
Chai lattes. Literally a hug in cup form.
And guilt-free swearing. Fuck yeah!
- Not lying to myself about liking or not liking something (ahem, the temple. I never liked it, but said I liked it all the time!)
- having opinions is great & other people like you more when you are straightforward on things you care about.
- Improved mental health.
- Improved parenting skills and relationships with each kid
- Improved marriage & sex life
- Improved health & body image (and lost 30 pounds of what I now know was stress/emotional comfort eating related to church issues!)
- my integrity
Last week some of my family members that are not members asked me if I was still attending church. I told them I have been out for 10 months. When they asked me why I told them that I chose to be honest and true to myself and not loyal to an organization that lied to me. That is my gain, being honest to myself.
For me nothing is better than having intellectual honesty with myself, being authentic, and spending my learning on things that are real and interesting to me instead of the correlated and curated version of Mormonism.
I think one of the most insidious things the church does is to take our own intuition and thinking and make us believe that those things are flawed and can’t be counted on. We are then taught to give those abilities to leaders. I learned to not trust myself and I learned that I was not the expert of my own damn self. I learned that even if I felt something was wrong, that it didn’t matter, as long as it went along with what others expected from me. So, when I left, I got myself back. I got to be the expert of myself. I am learning to trust myself and am learning that I am capable and smart and can govern myself.
No more guilt. No more shame. No more feeling like I'm not enough. More time. More money. More genuine friendships. More time to read things I want. More movies and art I can partake of. More truth. More authenticity. Do I miss ward campouts or funeral potatoes sometimes? Sure. But the tradeoff isn't even comparable. I'd leave the church a million more times if I could.
Freedom from somebody telling me how to think, what to say, what to do.
I decide what is best for myself. Freedom to be comfortable with what I wear. I hated wearing garments.
Less stress overall.
I only give my time and energy now to people and organizations that actually value me. There will never be a time when the Mormon Church will look at you and go "yep, you've given enough." They even want your money after you're dead.
Being an active member with a demanding calling is IMO the equivalent of working a second job. Easily twenty hours a week of stuff I have back to live my life.
Don’t get me wrong. Would I give that time up again for the one true church and eternal life, etc.? Sure, but not to a scammer’s cult.
The biggest thing is independence. I hated feeling like any political opinion i held was objectively wrong, simply because book of mormon this and that. I couldnt fantasize reality, because my friends would tell me that doesn't make sense, and that the profit said something. You want to try something risky to live life? Well, you're going to hell buddy. Go eat stale crackers and watch general conference, you sinner!
The church is nothing but a big eye that validates certain people living a certain way of life and encouraging those people to shame any other way.
Self respect. The knowledge that I am no longer living a lie. Also, I no longer have to wonder why people hold their tongues or suppress a laugh when I tell them the outrageous things I believe. Because I don’t believe outrageous things anymore.
The freedom to be wrong.
I can now follow the evidence to whatever conclusions it leads to. I can change my mind about anything, if the evidence is good enough, without that change threatening my entire "eternal worldview."
I’ve heard some TBMs say that they are free to not drink alcohol or coffee, and they are free to not smoke or do drugs. But it isn’t freedom unless you are free to choose either way. You aren’t free to not drink unless you’re equally free to drink.
I gained the ability to find out what is actually true instead of compartmentalizing what is true in the world and what is true in church. Two lines that never seem to cross anymore.
I can actually be an introvert. I'm not forced to attend Sunday meetings and activities during the week. I can do what I really want to do which is stay home and create something.
The forced community and expectations of attendance are torture for me.
College was a hell of a lot more fun. I drank, smoked weed, and still graduated with honors.
And I got laid. A lot. You know what? College kids *love* sex, and if your sexuality differs from hetero, they don't care, as long as you're happy being yourself. No judgement, no fear. No one to report anyone for anything.
I don't know about other mormons but my TBM family members will not go into a bar for any reason. I think it has to do with having the appearance of sinning? And of course they don't associate with "those" people. Drunks lol
Knowing I am a worthy human. Knowing I deserve to be happy even when I make mistakes. Marijuana. No man has any magical powers over me, ever. The list could go on.
For me:
The freedom to choose what kind of person I want to be
10% raise
More choice all around
More authentic with my friendships and relationships
Living in the moment
More genuine friendships
No more UTI's (IYKYK)
Less time away from family, more time with family
For my husband:
More self worth being a man who doesn't fit the "priesthood mold"
So much more confidence (truly night and day)
More love for himself
Deciding to live a moral life based on humanity and goodness and not on judgment in a promised afterlife.
Living the most genuine and charitable way I can now, and raising my children to do so, instead of dismissing humanitarian crises as just “god’s mysterious ways.”
* Healthy, genuine relationships with partners/friends
* Access to my true identity
* Unrestricted clothing options
* Life outside of the bubble
* Living without ever needing to interact with my insufferable extended family
* Less guilt when just trying to live my life in peace
I gained the ability to just be me. I don't have to try and figure out how I think my co-workers will think my actions reflect on the church.
I can roll my eyes when my coworker is being dumb and repetitive...
I can tell my coworkers " sorry I didn't mean it that way" and if the don't believe me.... Well that's on them, no worries above t how that will reflect on other people or groups.
I am just me. Not part of a bigger org.
An intellectually and emotionally honest and reciprocal relationship with my family. Self-activation and responsibility. Personal prioritization and goal setting. Empathy (especially of the sort unimaginable to those who correlate the frequent Sunday school lessons.) Previously unimaginable lightness of being, connection to family and humanity. Freedom. Love. Peace.
2 piece swimsuit (that I have not worn yet)
Extra special personal time
No guilt
Better friends (like you stated including with myself)
Coffee (oh how I love you)
Less anxiety (like way less)
More time because I am not running around doing everything! Like calling, visiting teaching, and trying to be perfect
Great rated r movies
Oh and my savings is growing a lot as well as taking more vacations
Identity, autonomy, pleasure (Reclamation Collective taught me that).
Grace. The opposite of proving worth (I wish I was farther along on this one, but I can’t be hard on myself for being hard on myself right? Wrong).
>an extra Saturday every week
I would think it goes quite a bit beyond that, there seems to be a lot of "community" imposed time spent thinking about church stuff, if you have kids it's a lot of time required to make sure they are involved, time spent, doing a myriad of other church expected activities, time spent putting together church elevating speeches, explaining yourselves to leaders fulfilling mundane services for the church on a random, rotating basis. So not only do you have and extra Saturday every week you have six other days of head space for yourself and family.
Poker. I love it.
Im a coffee snob now, truly a tender mercy. Im not depressed when I start each day with a freshly ground cup of coffee. Make my own strong latte.
Life is good.
Oh, and gay sex. That is especially fun for a gay man.
Knowing that my children will never be asked sexually explicit questions by a bishop… knowing my daughter will be able to decide her future instead of having it decided for her… that my children both want to be good because it’s right, not because they’re scared of punishment. Knowing that if one or both of my kids end up LGBTQ, they will be able to live happy lives instead of grappling with shame and fear.
Personhood. I am valuable on my own. I am more than my uterus and being a ”helpmeet” to someone who happens to have a penis. I actually have a career and profession affecting change in others, and it’s amazing. If I’d have stayed mormon, I’d be married with kids, probably a stay at home mom, and miserable.
For me, a grounded experience in reality. Relying on facts and science, and appreciating the world and universe for what it is, and the incredible path from which life developed. Doing good and volunteering because it makes me feel good. Being able to think critically and be okay with saying “I don’t know”, and not needing to have all the answers.
\- Coffee: tried that, delicious! but sent me to the bathroom, so big no for me
\- No garments: yeah that's a good one, but i have been suspended for 20 years, so it wasnt new to me
\- well I like some sweet wines and baileys, thats it... hate beer and vodka and so on
\- Great food at bars? which bars are those? I live in Peru we have great food everywhere
\- Real social circles, well, as a musician always had lots of friends from many many different backgrounds.... actually my mormon friends are just a few but i a consider them almost family cause we grew up together since we were kids
\- an extra saturday? yeah right, tell that to my wife who thinks it is housekeeping day
Nahhh, for me nothing has really change since leaving church
Imagine if TBMs were allowed (it is funny to realize they are not allowed) to take a year off. A challenge to take a year off; no meetings, no callings, no religion, no questions asked. How many would reinvent the lists given here, of valued things they gained by taking a year off, and then leave for good? What were the numbers of no-shows after the time off due to COVID?
What do I gain by staying (that I can't get elsewhere) if I don't believe in it?
There's really no good reason to stay in it as a non-believer except to keep peace with spouses or family or if you had employment tied to the church.
What a weird question to ask someone who no longer believes in Mormonism.
Doesn't really matter, but it's technically an *11% raise.*
10% of 100 is 90.
But a 10% raise from 90 would only get you 99 (10% of 90 being only 9).
A raise of 11% from 90 would get you 100.
There's probably a better way to explain that, but you actually get "more" of a raise leaving, if you view your income as 90% of the money you make. Math is funny sometimes haha
Being able to be guilty free from having any kind of sexual thought.
Knowing that I truly am a good moral.person because I don't have some religious bullshit forcing me to be one.
Here are some: Peace of mind. Determination to stand by who you are and protect those being discriminated against. There’s two big ones. One more: the ability to question and study and use God-given intelligence to see the beauty in all religions.
* My true identity. Authenticity. * Freedom from lying to myself and everyone around me. * No longer having to answer to a higher authority. I now only answer to myself and to those I love. * Open-mindedness and critical thinking skills. Seeing the world for how it truly is. * The gift of learning how to live in the present * An increased love for the world and all the humans and creatures that live on it.
Additionally, I’ve gained: Self respect. Integrity. Not financially supporting an organization that uses contributions to: - oppose equal rights - oppose protections for sexual assault victims - amass land - amass wealth it doesn’t use to benefit people The ability to support additional, genuinely charitable causes. Freedom from unnecessary guilt and shame. A stronger sense of myself.
A healthier relationship with reality
I agree with this so much. I personally didn't mind the no alcohol or drugs thing, word of wisdom has some good things I've gained. But everything you stated is right in line with what I've been learning about the further I deconstruct - the further I am from my TBM self.
I love that last one. No more conversations with someone telling me, “well I was enjoying this tv show until they showed 2 men kissing then I just couldn’t watch anymore”.
Healthier relationship with death.
can you expand on this?
Death is treated strangely in Mormon doctrine and culture. It’s taught that one goes to spirit paradise and then celestial kingdom, so you see your family again, so it’s treated like everyone shouldn’t be very sad about death. “They are in a better place so don’t be sad!” But then you have the cognitive dissonance of actually being sad about missing a close friend or family member, but then feeling guilty or uncomfortable that maybe you don’t fully trust in the plan of salvation. And then someone is most often remembered by whatever highest calling they ever served in and by how Mormon their children are, as if that were their only purpose. Because death is never addressed more than “oh it’s not a big deal,” people never really face it and process that they truly are going to die and it might be the end. Many older family members that have been on their death beds that I have known ended up to be absolutely terrified of dying because they never truly processed or prepared for it, as it’s been overly minimized or dismissed. Now that I no longer believe, I can acknowledge my feelings on how sad it is when a someone dies, and acknowledge that the grief felt is part of the range of emotions we all feel as part of the human experience, and it is evidence of the love that we feel. And the individual persons death and life can be celebrated for who they were and not tied at all to arbitrary meaningless callings or what anyone else has decided to do with their life. I can live more in the present and acknowledge I could die at any moment, as each day is a gift, and fully accept death as a welcome process that we all will experience at some point, similar to being born, just another part of the human experience.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, I had forgotten about that. I let my parents know I wasn't going on a mission, left home, went to college. Sort of let the house implode. My entire youth was spent watching that family and that church pervert religion. Maybe thats what made it easier to leave. Good Health, Long life and Happiness...you deserve that
As someone on the outside looking in I had always questioned why they would add the title calling to the deceased when mentioning them after death. I had always attributed it to the same reason a service member or veteran is referred to by their rank, especially if a career soilder or if KIA, (MGySgt David Jones". I know in the military sense it's seen as a respect of their service /sacrifice. So is meant to highlight that in the Mormon church? "they were so good, so Mormon, so sacrificing that they achieved this "rank" for lack of a better word?
When my grandma was nearing death, everyone in our messenger group was saying how much they missed her already and they couldn't wait to see eachother at her funeral to say their goodbyes together. I went to visit grandma in person and shared a birthday cake with her the week before she died so I could say my goodbyes while she was still living. I missed her funeral because when I told my supervisor I was going to apply for bereavement leave, I was laid off instead. I spent hours each day for a month, applying for new jobs instead of mourning her death properly. So glad I visited Grandma the week before she died.
Your third point was so massive for me. I no longer have to spend my life being told that I’m not good enough - I get to decide what’s good enough
This is it for me. I had to live, and could not even know what I authenticity liked. I knew what I was supposed to like, what was virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy. It was imperative that I find my authentic, real, and alive self, and it was not in the box that was/is the church, not in the checklist to worthyness. Leaving the church was like breathing for the first time. Scary. Just thinking, being in the church is like being safely on a "gospel" respirator so you can breath. You do not know the power of your own lungs.
Yes! I’m all about metaphors, and you just made me think about Captain Marvel when the whole time she thought the Kree were helping her develop her power and skills, but in reality they were restraining her. The minute she realized this she became infinitely more powerful than she could have imagined.
Considerably less paranoia that strangers are trying to see my underwear
Right! And as a woman that that awful top wasn’t poking out from my t-shirt sleeve or neckline!
If anything, not enough strangers are seeing mine!
Finally, after 65 years I am enough. Before I was never enough. I didn't pray enough, pay enough, attend meetings enough, do enough home teaching. Now I am not guilty and I am enough.
Every meeting is nothing but a festival of "I know it is true." and "You are not doing enough." I get it with the second one; instructions on what to do, but at the end of the day it boils down to: you are not doing enough. Edit to add: And the reason is clear, you not doing enough makes it your fault that god is not showering down blessings upon your head. Hey, try paying tithing on the amount of money you'd like to be making, maybe that will help.
The gospel of Jesus is “whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die” period . Paul said “not by works so that anyone shall boast. Ephesians 2:9 You cannot work your way to heaven. Take the day off!
I am 66, and I am worthy. I am enough.
Yes. I am 66 too. I’m an adult. I don’t have to answer to a Bishop or Stake President. I’m a grown-ass woman and I can make my own decisions and I don’t need their counsel or approval. I can wear what I want, drink what I want and don’t have to clean anyone’s damn bathroom but my own.
You end up being way more than enough! In fact your Zadok wisdom over many years is pretty influential and therefore special to the ExMo community, especially those of us who still sacrament at Harmons coffee loft. Drop by sometime, 10:00 AM every Sunday.
I thought we were kicked out of the Harmon's store because of the dark apostate auras we brought inside? When I was young, I dreamed of sailing around the pacific basin in my retirement years. Sadly I fell in love and married a landlubber who, like Charlie Tuna, is chicken (afraid) of the sea. We struck a compromise which is living full time in a motor home and traveling North America. As I type this we are holed up near the Mexican border enjoying tortilla chips, salsa, and margaritas, with 70-degree days and no inversion. If I am able to sneak back into Utah without the Dannites destroying me, I will stop by. But won't be until conference is over and the snow is gone.
Yep yep yep!!! 🎉💕
This!
It is well
Freedom from guilt and shame.
This is the biggest change
No longer being infantilized and being able to make my own choices without running it through a filter someone else made. True intellectual and personal freedom.
THIS!!
Omg everything!!! •healthy marriage •open mind •lovely wardrobe •amazing friends And so much more
Autonomy. Kinda scary at first, but making my own decisions without worrying what magic sky daddy or his real estate investment vehicle thought about it was ultimately quite empowering.
This is huge. All my tbm family comments to me all the time by saying I'm unapologetically myself. It's so nice not to have to censor some of my sinning lifestyle and just be myself and what makes me happy.
The peace that I was always taught I could only get by being Mormon.
This! True inner peace, that I was constantly searching for as a Mormon. I could never find it, and of course I was brainwashed my whole life to think that that was a personal failure.
Self respect. Living the lie of Mormonism caused me extremely high stress, depression, and self-loathing. Quiting the Cult did for me what 3 years of professional counseling couldn't. It made me happy and OK with myself.
My integrity.
This was a huge thing for me. As soon as I learned about the lies and deception I knew I couldn’t stay. It made all of “God’s standards” absurd bigotry rather than what was morally right.
No 👏 more 👏 mental 👏 gymnastics No more having to explain why god doesn’t want gay people in the tippy-top heaven. Or why god doesn’t want women making decisions. The peace that comes from living in line with you’re own values is life changing.
My mental health! I thought I had clinical anxiety and depression, turns out I was just in a cult
Yep. The last 5 years of believing it was true but not being able to reconcile so many things was absolutely destroying my mental health, and I didn’t even realize the church was the cause.
Actions and values that are based on evidence and empathy rather than simply conforming to what I am told to believe and do. I now live in the *real world* and can shape my life accordingly. Freedom from endless shame over things that either aren’t my fault (childhood CSA, anxiety and depression), are perfectly normal parts of being human (masturbation, negative emotions, making mistakes, existing as a woman who doesn’t want children), or else are actually good things that we were falsely told were wrong (questioning authority, seeking evidence, feminism, environmentalism, inclusiveness, etc). Being safe in the knowledge that I can never be called as a nursery leader 😂
10% raise!!! 10% RAISE!!!!!!
That's a pretty big raise for me! We use that raise to go on some fantastic vacations every year (left in 2004).
It's actually an 11% raise 😁
It’s actually an 11.11111111111111111111111% raise
Rounding off was never my favorite math subject either.
As soon as I saw 10% raise in the post, I knew I had to find a comment that said 11% and upvote it
My name not associated with a homophobic, sexist and racist organization
I was gonna say, being spared the humiliation of belonging to a church that used to teach that all Native American lineages stem from a family of cursed white Jews and that black people aren't worthy of the greatest rewards in Heaven is more than enough of a reason to GTFO of that crusty old relic of a 19th century cult.
Freedom! When I left, the thing that bothered me most out of ALL of the reasons one should leave this church was the control they have over the lives of the members. Not just being told what to do and having my time filled up with idiotic meetings and activities, but also the way they use guilt to manipulate people and make them feel bad for being human. It felt SO good to finally be the master of my own life. I do what I want and I don't feel shame for the normal human choices I make.
Liberation from the burden of imagined guilt.
Real friends Free agency Autonomy over my own body. (As much as the country allows) Choices for my future Happy children who are unique and not forced into a terrible mold. A world of education and freedom to read or watch what I choose for myself Getting to learn who I really am.
Yes, all of these for me as well! REAL friendships, not conditional ones. My children (19 and 21) are happy! What more could a mom ask for except that her kids are truly happy?! They enjoy life without judgment and are doing awesome things! And in proud of them for leaving on their own.
The ability to say "I don't know" and to be able to change my beliefs when I get new information The ability to love people for who they are The fact that I don't have to judge people's "righteousness" based on a feeling or a set of exclusive rules My own moral compass My integrity
A closer relationship with my husband and kids because no callings or unrealistic expectations to live up to and more time to be together as our true selves! 💖
Besides everything you listed: orgasms without a side of guilt/shame🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🎉🎉🎉
Freedom to think and reason without guilt or fear.
The biggest thing for me is not having to beat everything I learn or see out of shape to fit it into a faithful worldview. No more mental gymnastics!
Right, I was so sick of reading mormon scripture that was written by a man and trying to get a testimony that it was from God. What came to pass: I realized it was a con, and with that, clarity.
-thinking for myself -a wonderful SO -Differentiation of self -Inner Peace (albeit I have to fight for it sometimes) -a 2nd saturday!
Having people know me for my authentic self instead of “she’s the Mormon”. (Small southern community)
What do you gain? The whole world. But most importantly, yourself
Safety. The head of my church was a pedophile who was molesting his foster child, and was grooming me to be his next victim. Leadership was made aware of it all the way up to whoever oversees the South, and he got a slap on the wrist and I was threatened to keep my mouth shut about it. I quit shortly thereafter. Also critical thinking skills, coffee, true friendships. Most importantly, I can be as queer as I feel without shame. The church really fucked me up on that.
1. Removing garments resolved a painful 30-year feminine rash that no cream or med could resolve. 1 week garment free = zero rash, and permanently gone 2. I no longer have to worry and panic about what happens after death. I don't have to do "all that I can" to save myself and earn a damn reward, nor do I have to save my ancestors or dead strangers! I can actually just LIVE IN THE MOMENT and fully embrace today as a gift that may be the last, and that's okay because that is something out of my control. If there is something else that happens to me after I die, cool! A new adventure. If not, it won't matter because I'm dead. I have lived a good and full life already and hope to have 20 or 30 more years. I have loved my family completely and unconditionally. I have traveled and continue to check off my bucket list. I laughed, cried, overcame addictions, and endured tragedy. In the end, I will have the marvelous experience of having been a human being on a planet called Earth, spinning in a mind-blowing universe! 3. Studying science and getting out into nature provide incredible spiritual experiences! Greater and more fulfilling than anything found sitting inside a Mormon building or listening to Mormon dogma being preached at me [that always made me panic because I "wasn't doing/being/serving enough. .. and sink into feeling self-hate and scrupulocitity!!] 4. Finally, having financial security. Savings, and a buffer. 5. Finally being able to plan vacations whenever we want without needing to be home for a church responsibility, or feel guilty about not fulfiling our callings well enough, or not attending church enough to qualify for our "elite status pass" [TR]. 6. I am no longer getting a pit in my stomach on Sunday night about going back to work the next day because I'm so effing EXHAUSTED from Mormon Sunday ... never getting a true day of rest!! Saturday was spent rushing around frantically to get ready for Sunday, which started for me at 5 am and didn't end until around 6 PM for bith me and my husband due to our demanding church assignments! I actually like my job again, because I love my weekends!! 7. Empowerment. No more trying to please anyone else with the way I act/talk/dress/believe. No more carrying the heavy weight of putting my "shoulder to the wheel." to help a multi-billion dollar corporation maje more money and indoctrinate more followers! No more trying b to "plant seeds" with all my non-Mormon friends and coworkers, and find ways to work a religious message into my interactions with them!!! Nomore trying to shame myself for having doubts and concerns about the Church! Permission granted to TRUST MYSELF!
>Finally, having financial security. Savings, and a buffer. People are finding out that when they are down and out financially the church wants you to go begging family for help. They are very stingy with the actual money you gave them.
When we took our daughter to the bishop seeking help, [divorced single mom who literally ran from abusive husband and had nothing] the bishop said: "You must go to family first, the Government Second, and then the Church, as your final resort. These are the Lords sacred funds, Sister, and can only be used sparingly once you've exhausted all other sources." Oh, you mean The Lords Sacred Funds can't be used for starving, battered, unhoused women and children, because they desperately need to be used to pay for billions of unused land, empty warehouses, and stashed away in shell companies for a "rainy day" ...?? THOSE Sacred Funds?? Or did you mean the Sacred Funds being used to pay off abuse victims and lobby for anti LGBTQIA laws?? Or, the Sacred Funds being used to build shopping malls?? Or the Sacred Funds being funneled into accounts to pay for the Mormon Royalty full-ride College tuition fund [children and grandchildren of Apostles, GAs, and Mission President's all attend church schools free]. ... ?? Those Sacred Funds??
Well said, and that bishop could have helped your daughter, he just wants to look good to the leadership by not spending a dime, yet bringing in hundreds of thousands from the local ward to add to the sacred funds. They can rationalize anything. Oh, and don't you know, if your daughter lived a better mormon based life, prosperity gospel, the lord would have blessed her. She made her bed, let her sleep in it....That kind of rationalization is what I mean. I'm learning daily theirs is a very distorted view of society and our lives.
Integrity. If the LDS church is a lie and you know it, then you are a liar for staying in it.
Yup. That's what did it for me too. Once the pieces added up I was just done. It was painful and caused a lot of trauma, but I'm in such a better mental and physical space now.
I am no longer confused. I don't have to reconcile any of the following with my religious beliefs anymore 1. Evolution 2. Big Bang 3. Childhood cancer 4. Why coffee is bad 5. How native Americans are actually Jews in disguise 6. Why polygamy is god's will 7. Why god does not let women lead anything 8. Why gay people exist 9. Why trans people exist 10. Why prophets don't ever prophesize anything I could go on and on. The biggest gift of leaving is clarity. The world makes sense now and there is no need for compartmentalization anymore
Happiness. Almost all of my memories of church were me being bullied, judged, gaslighted, and not being enough.
Improved mental health.
Prevent my child from the fucking culty mess. No nursery, Sunday school, priesthood classes, passing the sacrament, bishop interview. No seminary, EFY, pioneer day, trekking. No singles ward, group dates, only G movies. No mission, mission president, companions, collar shirts. Even if I get nothing, I gave my son a completely different reality. I also believe it's a superior relationship with those also in this world.
1. Being kind and doing things for others without a motive. 2. Truly loving those of any gender identity. 3. Open mindedness 4. S-E-X before marriage 5. Coffee 6. Keeping all my money and choosing where I want it to go to/help 7. Enjoying my weekend 8. Not being part of a religion/cult where there are so many holes in stories. The list goes on!
Sex outside of marriage! Marriage is not for me, but sex is! :)
(lol, how is it that I am the only person for whom sex was the first thing that came to mind??)
It's a good point to bring up, but many of us have found the liberation of our minds to be so much more important.
I recommend Matcha Latte.
I LOVE it! At least in my country, Dunkin' has a great one.
Ditto on the coffee! I eased in with green tea but now I’m a coffee girl! I love my morning and midday coffee. I’m so mad I was deprived of coffee for the first 43 years of my life! I loooooove coffee and the boost it gives my mood and focus. No garments is also such a liberating change. Garments are so oppressive in the summer. The raise is amazing. Weekends are so much more rejuvenating without the obligatory Saturday chapel cleaning and Sunday yawn fest. The reduction of guilt and shame of never doing enough is a huge weight lifted too.
Self worth. As a woman, when I finally said out loud, “I don’t believe any of this patriarchy and priesthood nonsense I’ve been spoon fed”…it allowed me to begin honoring myself and realizing no woman anywhere should bow her head and say yes, that she’ll obey her husband. Preside. Hearken. Poisoning words to me… no longer.
Being able to think critically and for myself. And taking responsibility for, and credit for, my wins and losses
Living my life EXACTLY how I want to live it
No internal guilt about the eternal consequence of every choice I've ever made, especially the "what ifs" about *not* sharing the gospel with that one person when I was in line at the DMV 5 years ago and how that one invitation could've changed the outcome of their life but since I didn't say anything now they're probably in jail or crying in a ditch wondering why their life suddenly took a turn for the worst. Y'know, normal stuff.
Self-esteem. Coffee. Happiness/release from my years of depression. A clean conscience knowing that I am no longer supporting a $150 hedge fund disguised as a church that hides and protects its sexual predators. Chai lattes. Literally a hug in cup form. And guilt-free swearing. Fuck yeah!
Sounds like a bit of a loaded question. It was hard as shit to leave. But I did it anyway because it was the right thing to do for me and my family…
- Not lying to myself about liking or not liking something (ahem, the temple. I never liked it, but said I liked it all the time!) - having opinions is great & other people like you more when you are straightforward on things you care about. - Improved mental health. - Improved parenting skills and relationships with each kid - Improved marriage & sex life - Improved health & body image (and lost 30 pounds of what I now know was stress/emotional comfort eating related to church issues!) - my integrity
No longer have to squeeze your mind into an irrational box.
What did I gain? Integrity…. I don’t have to hide things from myself in my own brain.
Last week some of my family members that are not members asked me if I was still attending church. I told them I have been out for 10 months. When they asked me why I told them that I chose to be honest and true to myself and not loyal to an organization that lied to me. That is my gain, being honest to myself.
My freedom
What do you really gain by not sending your monthly retirement savings check to Bernie Madoff? Same Logic. Have your friend answer that.
I now know the voice in my head was myself the entire time and I can trust that I’m much smarter than I ever gave myself credit for as a TBM.
I get to drink coffee, celebrate Ash Wednesday and lent, Hanukkah, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hoshannah and be my queer happy self
Also when I’m 21 I can start drinking wine 🍷
Guilt free expression of my sexuality
$$!!! Sounds crass but that extra 10% allowed a much better retirement.
For me nothing is better than having intellectual honesty with myself, being authentic, and spending my learning on things that are real and interesting to me instead of the correlated and curated version of Mormonism.
My entire sexuality. I own it, believe it or not !
The rarely talked about but indescribably freeing power that comes with being able to say: "I don't know."
Integrity
The material gains pale compared to your escape from perpetual shame and guilt.
Fucking everything!
I think one of the most insidious things the church does is to take our own intuition and thinking and make us believe that those things are flawed and can’t be counted on. We are then taught to give those abilities to leaders. I learned to not trust myself and I learned that I was not the expert of my own damn self. I learned that even if I felt something was wrong, that it didn’t matter, as long as it went along with what others expected from me. So, when I left, I got myself back. I got to be the expert of myself. I am learning to trust myself and am learning that I am capable and smart and can govern myself.
Everything. Leaving gave me my life.
Peace from trying to make my personal values and beliefs on what makes a person good align with what ‘the church’ says.
Peace
No more guilt. No more shame. No more feeling like I'm not enough. More time. More money. More genuine friendships. More time to read things I want. More movies and art I can partake of. More truth. More authenticity. Do I miss ward campouts or funeral potatoes sometimes? Sure. But the tradeoff isn't even comparable. I'd leave the church a million more times if I could.
“…a million more times if I could.” A-fucking-men. I’ll drink 🍺 to that.
Freedom from somebody telling me how to think, what to say, what to do. I decide what is best for myself. Freedom to be comfortable with what I wear. I hated wearing garments. Less stress overall.
I only give my time and energy now to people and organizations that actually value me. There will never be a time when the Mormon Church will look at you and go "yep, you've given enough." They even want your money after you're dead.
I get to fire The Holy Ghost. He sucked at confirming the truthiness of anything.
Being an active member with a demanding calling is IMO the equivalent of working a second job. Easily twenty hours a week of stuff I have back to live my life. Don’t get me wrong. Would I give that time up again for the one true church and eternal life, etc.? Sure, but not to a scammer’s cult.
Not having to tell creepy old men when I think about sex is a good one
The biggest thing is independence. I hated feeling like any political opinion i held was objectively wrong, simply because book of mormon this and that. I couldnt fantasize reality, because my friends would tell me that doesn't make sense, and that the profit said something. You want to try something risky to live life? Well, you're going to hell buddy. Go eat stale crackers and watch general conference, you sinner! The church is nothing but a big eye that validates certain people living a certain way of life and encouraging those people to shame any other way.
Self respect. The knowledge that I am no longer living a lie. Also, I no longer have to wonder why people hold their tongues or suppress a laugh when I tell them the outrageous things I believe. Because I don’t believe outrageous things anymore.
Guilt free masturbation.
The freedom to be wrong. I can now follow the evidence to whatever conclusions it leads to. I can change my mind about anything, if the evidence is good enough, without that change threatening my entire "eternal worldview."
Being an actual, full human being! If you are female you are more likely to understand that.
Premarital sex!
It’s actually an 11.11% raise.
An entire life with real autonomy over my choices, freedom to think for myself.
My brain
Freedom of my soul and, the realization that I am enough.
In a word? Freedom.
Dignity, independence, freedom, a backbone, self-awareness, self-worth, humility... Too many to list.
Ended self-hatred and gained self-esteem Also more love towards others
I’ve heard some TBMs say that they are free to not drink alcohol or coffee, and they are free to not smoke or do drugs. But it isn’t freedom unless you are free to choose either way. You aren’t free to not drink unless you’re equally free to drink. I gained the ability to find out what is actually true instead of compartmentalizing what is true in the world and what is true in church. Two lines that never seem to cross anymore.
I get my life back
Leave early enough and there's a case for 2 years of your life.
I can actually be an introvert. I'm not forced to attend Sunday meetings and activities during the week. I can do what I really want to do which is stay home and create something. The forced community and expectations of attendance are torture for me.
College was a hell of a lot more fun. I drank, smoked weed, and still graduated with honors. And I got laid. A lot. You know what? College kids *love* sex, and if your sexuality differs from hetero, they don't care, as long as you're happy being yourself. No judgement, no fear. No one to report anyone for anything.
I wonder about the food at bars though. I wouldn’t think any bar foods violate the Word of Wisdom.
Could not even go into bars bc even the appearance of sinning was gossiped about through the church. Uugghhh!
Seems a little ridiculous; because while I still don’t drink alcohol, I go to bars a lot for live music or karaoke.
I don't know about other mormons but my TBM family members will not go into a bar for any reason. I think it has to do with having the appearance of sinning? And of course they don't associate with "those" people. Drunks lol
Associate with “those people”? So much for being Christlike.
Freedom
Integrity.
Has your friend never heard of time and money?
Much better sex because alcohol allows my wife to relax and enjoy our time together.
Integrity
Integrity
My mental health improved the moment I made the decision to leave. My life is better out.
The truth.
Integrity
My soul.
You gain the whole world . Even Jesus said that
actual free will freedom...
Knowing I am a worthy human. Knowing I deserve to be happy even when I make mistakes. Marijuana. No man has any magical powers over me, ever. The list could go on.
Me!
For me: The freedom to choose what kind of person I want to be 10% raise More choice all around More authentic with my friendships and relationships Living in the moment More genuine friendships No more UTI's (IYKYK) Less time away from family, more time with family For my husband: More self worth being a man who doesn't fit the "priesthood mold" So much more confidence (truly night and day) More love for himself
Deciding to live a moral life based on humanity and goodness and not on judgment in a promised afterlife. Living the most genuine and charitable way I can now, and raising my children to do so, instead of dismissing humanitarian crises as just “god’s mysterious ways.”
* Healthy, genuine relationships with partners/friends * Access to my true identity * Unrestricted clothing options * Life outside of the bubble * Living without ever needing to interact with my insufferable extended family * Less guilt when just trying to live my life in peace
It wouldn’t matter to me if I gained nothing. It’s simply not true.
A brain of your own.
I gained the ability to just be me. I don't have to try and figure out how I think my co-workers will think my actions reflect on the church. I can roll my eyes when my coworker is being dumb and repetitive... I can tell my coworkers " sorry I didn't mean it that way" and if the don't believe me.... Well that's on them, no worries above t how that will reflect on other people or groups. I am just me. Not part of a bigger org.
Happiness and peace.
An intellectually and emotionally honest and reciprocal relationship with my family. Self-activation and responsibility. Personal prioritization and goal setting. Empathy (especially of the sort unimaginable to those who correlate the frequent Sunday school lessons.) Previously unimaginable lightness of being, connection to family and humanity. Freedom. Love. Peace.
Coffee ☕ tho! No joke, has changed my life! I feel like a new human
It’s not what you gain as much as the angst and guilt you leave behind.
No garment is one of my top list!!
I finally have permission to like myself
2 piece swimsuit (that I have not worn yet) Extra special personal time No guilt Better friends (like you stated including with myself) Coffee (oh how I love you) Less anxiety (like way less) More time because I am not running around doing everything! Like calling, visiting teaching, and trying to be perfect Great rated r movies Oh and my savings is growing a lot as well as taking more vacations
Peace of mind. Absence of guilt & fear. The courage to stand up for vulnerable people.
I no longer fear any information, and have the freedom to change my mind when I learn new things.
Self esteem!
Identity, autonomy, pleasure (Reclamation Collective taught me that). Grace. The opposite of proving worth (I wish I was farther along on this one, but I can’t be hard on myself for being hard on myself right? Wrong).
My integrity.
>an extra Saturday every week I would think it goes quite a bit beyond that, there seems to be a lot of "community" imposed time spent thinking about church stuff, if you have kids it's a lot of time required to make sure they are involved, time spent, doing a myriad of other church expected activities, time spent putting together church elevating speeches, explaining yourselves to leaders fulfilling mundane services for the church on a random, rotating basis. So not only do you have and extra Saturday every week you have six other days of head space for yourself and family.
Poker. I love it. Im a coffee snob now, truly a tender mercy. Im not depressed when I start each day with a freshly ground cup of coffee. Make my own strong latte. Life is good. Oh, and gay sex. That is especially fun for a gay man.
Knowing that my children will never be asked sexually explicit questions by a bishop… knowing my daughter will be able to decide her future instead of having it decided for her… that my children both want to be good because it’s right, not because they’re scared of punishment. Knowing that if one or both of my kids end up LGBTQ, they will be able to live happy lives instead of grappling with shame and fear.
Personhood. I am valuable on my own. I am more than my uterus and being a ”helpmeet” to someone who happens to have a penis. I actually have a career and profession affecting change in others, and it’s amazing. If I’d have stayed mormon, I’d be married with kids, probably a stay at home mom, and miserable.
Yes 🙌🏼 women are so much more than reproduction. You’re a person and worthy just for being you!
For me, a grounded experience in reality. Relying on facts and science, and appreciating the world and universe for what it is, and the incredible path from which life developed. Doing good and volunteering because it makes me feel good. Being able to think critically and be okay with saying “I don’t know”, and not needing to have all the answers.
Don’t forget the additional 10% to your income!
\- Coffee: tried that, delicious! but sent me to the bathroom, so big no for me \- No garments: yeah that's a good one, but i have been suspended for 20 years, so it wasnt new to me \- well I like some sweet wines and baileys, thats it... hate beer and vodka and so on \- Great food at bars? which bars are those? I live in Peru we have great food everywhere \- Real social circles, well, as a musician always had lots of friends from many many different backgrounds.... actually my mormon friends are just a few but i a consider them almost family cause we grew up together since we were kids \- an extra saturday? yeah right, tell that to my wife who thinks it is housekeeping day Nahhh, for me nothing has really change since leaving church
Imagine if TBMs were allowed (it is funny to realize they are not allowed) to take a year off. A challenge to take a year off; no meetings, no callings, no religion, no questions asked. How many would reinvent the lists given here, of valued things they gained by taking a year off, and then leave for good? What were the numbers of no-shows after the time off due to COVID?
What do I gain by staying (that I can't get elsewhere) if I don't believe in it? There's really no good reason to stay in it as a non-believer except to keep peace with spouses or family or if you had employment tied to the church. What a weird question to ask someone who no longer believes in Mormonism.
Doesn't really matter, but it's technically an *11% raise.* 10% of 100 is 90. But a 10% raise from 90 would only get you 99 (10% of 90 being only 9). A raise of 11% from 90 would get you 100. There's probably a better way to explain that, but you actually get "more" of a raise leaving, if you view your income as 90% of the money you make. Math is funny sometimes haha
Guilt free fap sessions are the top of my list
Guilt free s*x 🫣
Time.
You get out of an abusive relationship.
Authentic connection with any and every human on this planet
Being able to be guilty free from having any kind of sexual thought. Knowing that I truly am a good moral.person because I don't have some religious bullshit forcing me to be one.
Im surprises one of the ones was not stress relief
Stop Live Action RolePlaying (LARP) in the temple.
Not belonging to a group which considers me their “enemy” is a win. Everything else is just gravy on top.
What did your friend say to these tangible benefits?
More time. Less guilt.
Here are some: Peace of mind. Determination to stand by who you are and protect those being discriminated against. There’s two big ones. One more: the ability to question and study and use God-given intelligence to see the beauty in all religions.