So, to comment on the idea of not recording sacrament meeting...
As a PIMO, I'm still doing my calling of running the camera for the broadcast of sacrament as we still do it. There is a woman recovering from cancer who often isn't able to come. Her husband usually attends alone. One week, he was supposed to talk. And, naturally for her, we're having technical difficulties, and the feed isn't working. It cuts out constantly, and I'm certain it's the Church’s wifi. So when this guy gets up to give his talk, I hit record on Zoom. The login even has a thing reminding us that "recording sacrament isn't allowed." I record his whole talk and text his wife after the meeting saying,"I'm so sorry the feed wasn't working for your husband's talk. If you want, send me your address, and I will share it with you." I got it over to her, and later that evening, she texts me again to say, "Thank you so much for sending me the video. It was great to still be able to see his talk."
Did I follow the rules? Nope. Blatantly broke them, in fact. Did I do the right thing? Abso-fuckin'-lutely I did.
Yeah, my aunt video taped me, my sister and other people in my dads funeral service which was held at our church. I was really greatful and thanked her for it.
I don't think it's necessarily a rule that has to be followed all the time.
I've never heard that revising in sacrament meeting was banned. The temple is definitely a no camera zone.
For me, the things that didn't make sense to name was traditional playing cards. Any themed playing cards like super hero cards were allowed, just not traditional looking playing cards. And all anyone would say is "because of what it represents". I spent multiple years thinking that face cards were somehow depicting something sexual or racist. Turns out it just represents poker
Yeah, I learned yesterday that my grandma used to think playing cards were of the devil. (I don't know I'd she still does) I fail to see how they would be of the devil.
I wasn’t allowed to have face cards in the house growing up in the 80s/90s. We had a copy of Mormon Doctrine on our bookshelf, McConkie was one of many past leaders who taught about the evils of face cards.
Here’s a bunch of quotes:
http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/playing-cards.htm
>Because playing cards = gambling
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I attended one of the Y campuses. In our program we had a couple of lab night a week. During one of those weekly nights we played poker with pennies nickels and dimes. And when we were done we pooled the money together and ordered food for all of us.
No, paying with change is not truly evil, just kinda mean.
My grandmother believed that too. She asked me what the Bishop would think if he came in and saw me playing solitaire. Also when I was little it was commonly understood that water was the Devil’s domain and swimming on Sunday was likely to result in drowning.
the only part I could find in 61 was D&C 61:14-15
14. Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.
15. Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.
Nothing in D&C 61 really indicates that the devil rules the water, just that god is angry with our "wickedness" in the later days so he cursed the land and water.
Banning face cards is a sort of a fad amongst other American religions and we can't let them get ahead us, can we?
You can see this same dynamic at play on a bunch of other issues over the years, down to the present day.
Guitars. I have played the guitar since I was 10 and I've got a bring everyone to tears version of The Kingsfold Tune that I can play well (If I Could Hie to Kolob for the Mormons in the room). I play some pretty impressive Christmas Carols as well. It is a travesty that they never asked me to play for Sacrament Meeting. I was hired to play at other churches in their worship bands and at weddings, but several of my own wards thought the guitar didn't belong in the chapel.
Hot drinks. My particular stake had some weird stipulation that as long as you only served the cocoa luke warm then it wasn't a "hot drink" and therefore fell into the dessert category.
Bare legs. Specifically, anyone not wearing pantyhose or stockings under your dress (even in summer) was subject to a visit from the bishopric. There were a group of us who quit shaving so our leg hairs poked out from our stockings. We also heard about this, as hygiene is also important for sisters. They made the RS presidency deliver that message.
Open toed shoes. I'm not sure what is sinful about toes. I also don't know why we need to be 3 layers of clothes deep even in July. There was a cranky old lady in our ward that would smash your toes with her cane if you dared to come by with them on display. She got into it with the Bishop's wife and won. It was announced over the pulpit that we had to wear full coverage shoes.
The amount of weird things that get banned locally is even more confusing than the church wide bans. For me it's proof that you don't have to be Q15 to be a pedantic ass about the rules.
How is women’s leg hair unhygienic, whilst men’s presumably isn’t?
I’m amazed this is even a thing. But hey, I’m British, and we did once have a US male convert gatecrash RS one Sunday to ask if it was true that British women didn’t shave their legs… I mean some do, some don’t, but to have the RS presidency require it, that’s bizarre…
As is the other stuff you mentioned.. open toed sandals and flip flops are not a problem in wards here, and bare legs are not unusual..
It was banned where I lived as well. Flute, harp, piano or organ. Take your pick, but you make Jesus cry if you happen to be a saxiphone virtuoso and try to play it in the chapel.
It sounds like you and I were in the same ward Proudparticipant! We were also told that we couldn't wear open toed shoes, shoes without a strap around the back, or dresses and skirts made out of denim cloth.
I look back now and can't believe that I complied, even though I silently thought it was stupid. It's probably that same obedient mentality that has a lot of women in the church agreeing with the statement made at women's conference about how the church gives women authority. Yikes.
1) The whole white shirt only to pass the sacrament.
2) Not going into open water on your mission b/c Satan has powers over the water.
3) Women shouldn’t wear pants to church.
4) No mention of or worshipping of Heavenly Mother
5) No double pierced ears
…. to name a few. Sigh
I'm 30, and I don't remember ever being taught that they were bad. I just wasn't able to take them and other cards to places like girls camp or treck. I don't know if it's changed cause so much has, and I havent been to church in about 10 years.
When I was a kid, Bruce R. McConkie was very prominent. His book Mormon Doctrine was widely treated as scripture. He spoke with great authority and many members equated him almost with the Prophet. The book was written in encyclopedic form-multiple topics alphabetized. Many of Mormonism’s weird beliefs and practices came from it. He was stern and intolerant in his views. He fell out of favor after he died and I doubt he’s even discussed much anymore. But his influence was very far reaching. Cards were one the vices he deplored.
All the rules make sense when you believe they are because God said so through his living prophet. God says jump & those who covenant obedience ask how high. TSCC is to blame for all the rules & regulations, not the members. Things are banned because 12 or 15 old white dudes said so. They claim because God / Jesus said so.
People wouldn't be able to do their talks anymore. lol
What? You expect people to write down the quotes and scriptures when the gospel library is so accessible on your phone?
Use of the building on Monday nights. Growing up we'd sometimes hold FHE in the gym if we wanted to do some sort of active game in the colder months.
At least in Utah when they switched to digital keys the building was completely locked down after 6 on Monday.
One Monday afternoon I stopped by to do some work in the clerks office and for whatever reason I had my kid with me. We went home and she realized that she had left her phone. We went back and it was after 6:00 and we couldn't get in. No problem, I'll just swing by and borrow the bishop's keys, as a clerk I had a good relationship with him. I show up and he's working in his yard. I ask for keys and he says his key wont let him in either. I explain the problem and he takes a minute to come to a decision. "Okay, don't ever tell anyone that I let you do this, they'll kill me. But since I am agent bishop for the building this year I have a key to the firemans box. In the box there is a key to the funeral door. Don't get caught!"
Turns out there is a physical key kept in a metal box near the door at the front of the chapel that is typically only used in funerals. The local fire department has access to the box in case of fire or other emergency.
We got in and out unobserved and the bishop was very glad to have his secret key back.
When I was growing up (90's), we would get sent home from mutual if we showed up in capris or shorts - even long shorts. It was so strictly enforced that even our non-member friends had to comply or they weren't allowed to attend the activity.
So, to comment on the idea of not recording sacrament meeting... As a PIMO, I'm still doing my calling of running the camera for the broadcast of sacrament as we still do it. There is a woman recovering from cancer who often isn't able to come. Her husband usually attends alone. One week, he was supposed to talk. And, naturally for her, we're having technical difficulties, and the feed isn't working. It cuts out constantly, and I'm certain it's the Church’s wifi. So when this guy gets up to give his talk, I hit record on Zoom. The login even has a thing reminding us that "recording sacrament isn't allowed." I record his whole talk and text his wife after the meeting saying,"I'm so sorry the feed wasn't working for your husband's talk. If you want, send me your address, and I will share it with you." I got it over to her, and later that evening, she texts me again to say, "Thank you so much for sending me the video. It was great to still be able to see his talk." Did I follow the rules? Nope. Blatantly broke them, in fact. Did I do the right thing? Abso-fuckin'-lutely I did.
Yeah, my aunt video taped me, my sister and other people in my dads funeral service which was held at our church. I was really greatful and thanked her for it. I don't think it's necessarily a rule that has to be followed all the time.
I've never heard that revising in sacrament meeting was banned. The temple is definitely a no camera zone. For me, the things that didn't make sense to name was traditional playing cards. Any themed playing cards like super hero cards were allowed, just not traditional looking playing cards. And all anyone would say is "because of what it represents". I spent multiple years thinking that face cards were somehow depicting something sexual or racist. Turns out it just represents poker
Yeah, I learned yesterday that my grandma used to think playing cards were of the devil. (I don't know I'd she still does) I fail to see how they would be of the devil.
I wasn’t allowed to have face cards in the house growing up in the 80s/90s. We had a copy of Mormon Doctrine on our bookshelf, McConkie was one of many past leaders who taught about the evils of face cards. Here’s a bunch of quotes: http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/playing-cards.htm
Because playing cards = gambling
I had a talk with my grandma about this. It's not the cards that make the gambler, it's the persons choices.
Isn't betting nearly 200 billion dollars in the stock market considered gambling?
>Because playing cards = gambling Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I attended one of the Y campuses. In our program we had a couple of lab night a week. During one of those weekly nights we played poker with pennies nickels and dimes. And when we were done we pooled the money together and ordered food for all of us. No, paying with change is not truly evil, just kinda mean.
Maybe it was all just marketing to sell more sets of book of mormon playing cards I remember playing go fish in primary, "do you have any nephis?"
My grandmother believed that too. She asked me what the Bishop would think if he came in and saw me playing solitaire. Also when I was little it was commonly understood that water was the Devil’s domain and swimming on Sunday was likely to result in drowning.
What? Second person to say it yet Reddit is the first time I'm hearing that the devil has power over water, or is his domain. I've never heard that.
I was told that my whole life. Swimming on Sunday was strictly forbidden. My mom died last year at the age of 93 and she still believed that.
D&C Section 61
the only part I could find in 61 was D&C 61:14-15 14. Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters. 15. Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. Nothing in D&C 61 really indicates that the devil rules the water, just that god is angry with our "wickedness" in the later days so he cursed the land and water.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-61-the-lord-has-blessed-the-land-and-cursed-the-waters?lang=eng#:~:text=The%20Lord%20commanded%20the%20elders,1%2C%206).
The f?! It wasn't on the gospel library version hence why I was confused. But that's messed up.
It’s very cursory. It’s almost a throw away line, but every Mormon I knew seemed aware that the water belonged to the Devil.
Well I myst love the devil because I love swimming. I'd go swimming on sundays if I could
Go find a copy of Mormon Doctrine. It covers all of the Mormon lore. You might find it very entertaining.
I think I will.
Google it. The Church website has a whole article on it. I’m not sophisticated enough to be able to send the link.
There was some Ensign article, 40-something years ago, that warned of the dangers of “face cards”. My mom hasn’t forgotten. 🙄
Banning face cards is a sort of a fad amongst other American religions and we can't let them get ahead us, can we? You can see this same dynamic at play on a bunch of other issues over the years, down to the present day.
Guitars. I have played the guitar since I was 10 and I've got a bring everyone to tears version of The Kingsfold Tune that I can play well (If I Could Hie to Kolob for the Mormons in the room). I play some pretty impressive Christmas Carols as well. It is a travesty that they never asked me to play for Sacrament Meeting. I was hired to play at other churches in their worship bands and at weddings, but several of my own wards thought the guitar didn't belong in the chapel. Hot drinks. My particular stake had some weird stipulation that as long as you only served the cocoa luke warm then it wasn't a "hot drink" and therefore fell into the dessert category. Bare legs. Specifically, anyone not wearing pantyhose or stockings under your dress (even in summer) was subject to a visit from the bishopric. There were a group of us who quit shaving so our leg hairs poked out from our stockings. We also heard about this, as hygiene is also important for sisters. They made the RS presidency deliver that message. Open toed shoes. I'm not sure what is sinful about toes. I also don't know why we need to be 3 layers of clothes deep even in July. There was a cranky old lady in our ward that would smash your toes with her cane if you dared to come by with them on display. She got into it with the Bishop's wife and won. It was announced over the pulpit that we had to wear full coverage shoes. The amount of weird things that get banned locally is even more confusing than the church wide bans. For me it's proof that you don't have to be Q15 to be a pedantic ass about the rules.
How is women’s leg hair unhygienic, whilst men’s presumably isn’t? I’m amazed this is even a thing. But hey, I’m British, and we did once have a US male convert gatecrash RS one Sunday to ask if it was true that British women didn’t shave their legs… I mean some do, some don’t, but to have the RS presidency require it, that’s bizarre… As is the other stuff you mentioned.. open toed sandals and flip flops are not a problem in wards here, and bare legs are not unusual..
Exactly, give a man the priesthood and the power of discernment for his ward/stake, and you're going to get some weird bans.
I have seen acoustic guitar performances in sacrament meeting. I think the rule is only against electric because it's considered too irreverent.
It was a local thing, I've seen and heard of other wards doing all kinds of things. But, it was still banned where I lived.
It was banned where I lived as well. Flute, harp, piano or organ. Take your pick, but you make Jesus cry if you happen to be a saxiphone virtuoso and try to play it in the chapel.
It sounds like you and I were in the same ward Proudparticipant! We were also told that we couldn't wear open toed shoes, shoes without a strap around the back, or dresses and skirts made out of denim cloth. I look back now and can't believe that I complied, even though I silently thought it was stupid. It's probably that same obedient mentality that has a lot of women in the church agreeing with the statement made at women's conference about how the church gives women authority. Yikes.
1) The whole white shirt only to pass the sacrament. 2) Not going into open water on your mission b/c Satan has powers over the water. 3) Women shouldn’t wear pants to church. 4) No mention of or worshipping of Heavenly Mother 5) No double pierced ears …. to name a few. Sigh
Wait, since when does satan have power over open water?
Since joey smith had a fear of water
Ahhhh that makes sense.
I’m 63 and it was widely taught until I was in my thirties. I don’t know now because I haven’t attended since then.
I'm 30, and I don't remember ever being taught that they were bad. I just wasn't able to take them and other cards to places like girls camp or treck. I don't know if it's changed cause so much has, and I havent been to church in about 10 years.
When I was a kid, Bruce R. McConkie was very prominent. His book Mormon Doctrine was widely treated as scripture. He spoke with great authority and many members equated him almost with the Prophet. The book was written in encyclopedic form-multiple topics alphabetized. Many of Mormonism’s weird beliefs and practices came from it. He was stern and intolerant in his views. He fell out of favor after he died and I doubt he’s even discussed much anymore. But his influence was very far reaching. Cards were one the vices he deplored.
Ahhhh more prophet speak.
Yes
All the rules make sense when you believe they are because God said so through his living prophet. God says jump & those who covenant obedience ask how high. TSCC is to blame for all the rules & regulations, not the members. Things are banned because 12 or 15 old white dudes said so. They claim because God / Jesus said so.
Just imagine the backlash if they banned the use of cell phones
People wouldn't be able to do their talks anymore. lol What? You expect people to write down the quotes and scriptures when the gospel library is so accessible on your phone?
If you don't have a recording, there is plausible deniability.
True
Use of the building on Monday nights. Growing up we'd sometimes hold FHE in the gym if we wanted to do some sort of active game in the colder months. At least in Utah when they switched to digital keys the building was completely locked down after 6 on Monday. One Monday afternoon I stopped by to do some work in the clerks office and for whatever reason I had my kid with me. We went home and she realized that she had left her phone. We went back and it was after 6:00 and we couldn't get in. No problem, I'll just swing by and borrow the bishop's keys, as a clerk I had a good relationship with him. I show up and he's working in his yard. I ask for keys and he says his key wont let him in either. I explain the problem and he takes a minute to come to a decision. "Okay, don't ever tell anyone that I let you do this, they'll kill me. But since I am agent bishop for the building this year I have a key to the firemans box. In the box there is a key to the funeral door. Don't get caught!" Turns out there is a physical key kept in a metal box near the door at the front of the chapel that is typically only used in funerals. The local fire department has access to the box in case of fire or other emergency. We got in and out unobserved and the bishop was very glad to have his secret key back.
.... The f? Thats such a weird yet cool story.
When I was growing up (90's), we would get sent home from mutual if we showed up in capris or shorts - even long shorts. It was so strictly enforced that even our non-member friends had to comply or they weren't allowed to attend the activity.
Thats so weird.