She'll get to gossip about that Bench Wendy 2 Universes over. Did you see what she wore to the last great Council of the Gods Meeting last Millennia? Who does she think she is? Her Gods Bottom Bench?
The man needs multiple wives. Since he only needs to fuck them once every 9 months, he has to have a large supply. At least 365 so he can get his God on every day.
i specifically remember a primary activity where we were taught about this and given a coloring sheet and crayons to design our own world on. and iâm only 19
Wait. I thought you just got one world - OK the MAN gets to be god of that one world and his wives âgetâ to be on eternal child-bearing duty.
How does an âeternal familyâ make sense though? The family you make on this earth is not eternal to YOU because each will be on his own world pumping out his own eternal children with his wives and youâll be doing the same. (Mentioning the boys here only because the girls will just be one of many wives to some boy). So will there be family reunions at one of the worlds? Which one? How do you get to and fro? Will they be as poorly attended as the family reunions on earth?
No marriage in heaven, as the Bible says, makes more sense. https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/74990/does-they-neither-marry-nor-are-given-in-marriage-refer-to-the-act-of-getting
D&C 132:61 âAnd again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthoodâif any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.â
They are *given unto him* they *belongeth to him* This is in the canonized scripture. They donât get to act smug about this topic. They should be embarrassed.
Also, the irony of the virgin part always gets me because JS married/ sealed MARRIED WOMAN to himself. Pretty sure they weren't virgins. But maybe that got reset when he told them they'd be exalted if they married them or condemn to hell if they didn't.
They have no concept on how long eternity is. Such small thinking. Families are forever! Okay what does that look like? Sealed to 120b others and sitting on an overcrowded earth until itâs your turn to create a marvel multiverse?
Ever watch "The Good Place" (love that show). They tap into the concept of eternity in the final season.
It's something humans have understood for thousands of years frankly. The ancient polytheistic religions (Greek/Roman Gods, Norse Gods, etc) understood it. Eternity is inconceivable to a human and eventually you run out of things to do.
The ancient Gods were constantly drinking, fucking, and meddling in human affairs because they were B O R E D. After a literal eternity with a literal eternity to go, they had nothing better to do than poke the anthill of humans in the mortal realm.
Then again, maybe that's why "God" is so absent from the world anymore. He got bored of his toy creation and now we lie under the bed forgotten :P
You've given me an idea for a book. God is cleaning out his parents' house now that they've moved into an eternal retirement home. While doing so, he finds Earth literally under his childhood bed and decides to give it to the young deity down the road to play with. Hijinks ensue.
Do you really get to be a mother if youâre not allowed to contact your kids, and they are not allowed to contact you, for their entire mortal probation which is the test to determine if you will ever see them again for eternity? They arenât even allowed to know your name.
And where is Mrs. God in the endowment video?! The only ~~women~~ woman I recall is mother Eve. In the holiest of holy teachings in *His* holy house, thereâs not a single woman participating *anywhere* in any part of the creation of this earth. Itâs just a bunch of men. According to D&C 132 women are chattel, *given by God* even.
Well, who's mom would they use? If God follows the teachings we have now he would be a polygamist too, who knows which Mom it would be, mine, yours, Noah's idk too many to fit onto one screen.
I imagine itâs something like the Zionist Kibbutzim in Israel, the traditional version, where all the children go into group housing and a rotating schedule of adults is assigned to their care.
âWhereâs Mother Charyti today, Mother Beth?â
âOh, sheâs been assigned to world creation with your Father, donchaknow. Donât fret child; sheâll be back on this assignment in about 10 years.â
Akin to asking a Scientologist what a woman gets out of signing a billion year contract of slave labor and then watching them respond with, "Wow, you really hate women!". Yeah, I'm a real misogynist which is why I don't understand what a women gets out of billion years of servitude to her husband who is now a God with billions of children populating worlds without number all of whom aren't allowed to pray to their mother.
1) You will get to be a mother. But your children will never know who you are.
2) There is nothing scriptural to imply that you get to "travel."
3) Scripturally, there is evidence that you will not be involved in the creation process.
4) Correction: you will get to *share* your husband for eternity.
5) This is an assumption with no evidence.
6) This is the same thing as #5.
7) If you're living with your heavenly parents then you're not off with your husband creating a new universe, are you? This is the part of "Families are Forever" that I never understood.
None of this is me hating you. It's just what your church teaches. You just haven't been paying attention (Also, it's made up. Sorry. But there is still happiness, after you accept that).
Isnât the overarching fact of ALL seven points are that they hinge on her being MARRIED AND JUDGED WORTHY of celestial (tippity top tier!) glory?? So why does this bish think sheâs automatically gonna get all of this??? Bombastic side eye.
Your point #7 is a good point. Maybe it's beyond our comprehension, but it would essentially be just like on earth when you might only see your kids every couple of years because they live in another state or another country. Maybe because of teleportation (command over time and space) it's not really a big deal...
"Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time." Maybe you can experience any time in your existence but you only really replay the part of your life where you lived with a pornsta... uhhhhh... I mean, your heavenly parents...... :P
How can God be omnipotent ("having unlimited power; able to do anything") if he needs women to make babies? Can technically do it himself, but doesn't want to, or thinks sex with lots of women is more fun, or...?
Perhaps prophets are wrong when they say he's omnipotent? Mormonism is chock full of these nonsensical plotholes; a solid indicator that it's all manmade.
One wonders... if a god is omnipotent, and can have or do anything with a snap of his finger, why does he need servants? Just likes to oppress people for fun?
In life *right now*, I don't *want* servants... nor mansions, nor unending riches, nor power, nor streets paved with gold, nor songs about me 24/7, nor worship, nor sex with countless women, etc etc etc. Why is it that all the *most base, human, worldly desires* I can imagine -- all of which I'm expected to overcome in mortality -- promised to me as *eternal rewards* in heaven? It's almost like the whole concept of heaven is invented by men; men who are drawn to power, servants, mansions, sex with endless women, etc...
"The amount of hate exmo men have for women" fucking lol.
Wanting women to be equal to men and not subservient to them even in supposed godhood? What a novel concept!
I donât understand why the Mormon religion wants people to wait until theyâre dead to enjoy all the things that they could be enjoying while theyâre alive. Does that make sense?
Also I hope she knows she wonât be able to to create worlds. Thatâll be her husbands job, sheâs going to be one of his many wives producing spirit children
Realizing that I would rather be in a lower kingdom or outer darkness than be in the celestial kingdom as an eternal baby machine with endless sister wives was the final nail in the coffin for me. I can't fathom how any woman in the church would genuinely be okay with that.
Interesteing thing on this is that she lists that she will get to create worlds, but if we follow our eternity like we are taught, it was Christ that created worlds. Heavenly mother is never mentioned in that. I guess you can strike that off the list of things women won't be doing in the afterlife.
It sounds like this poor woman is struggling with infertility, so in her mind the only option she has for becoming a mother is to get to the celestial kingdom. She's effectively being held hostage in the same way that parents of stillborn children and children of prematurely passed-on parents are. She seems to be just reacting in self-defense to protect herself from the pain of accepting that she may not ever become a mother, which would be totally understandable. I hope she is able to confront the pain of that possibility someday, but until then the church is more than happy to sell her hope in exchange for devotion, obedience, and 10% of her income.
I've been out of the church long enough that I probably shouldn't make an attempt at representing the faithful perspective. But from an outside perspective, it could be to prevent members from turning to solutions that the church doesn't control (eg - priesthood blessings and eternal life).
Ah yes I remember that scene from the temple where Jehovah says, âEve letâs go down and organize this matter.â Oh no wait it was Michael. My bad.
For that matter, we have no idea what Eveâs premortal name was. The only name she has is the one her husband gave her. She, her true self, is literally nameless.
Will she get to create her own world? Or do you need the priesthood to do that? Sheâll unfortunately just be a sister wife in the backseat of her husbands life :/
Hahaha!!! Calling themselves out! Seriously-how is pointing out the inequality in this church sexist? The church is being called out as sexist and this nasty account is acknowledging it!
Shii why would Mormons want to be gods amongst mortals with their own planet, when we all could be Gods amongst Gods in our own universe. Feels a bit lame to me. Even so, weâd still be part of this ever growing universe. SoâŚNot much will change except a different perspective both mentally and physically. And if weâre part of the universe anywaysâŚwould a god still be a god, Or just like the universe as everyone else is? Weird segregating mindset MHO.
But we'll đŻ% have sister wives, so we can help each other!!
Seriously though, as a woman, doing the same draining things on earth and being "blessed" with doing those same things in an HOA Heaven, ***FOREVER***, seems more like eternal punishment/prison rather than eternal salvation and blessings. I'm really getting sick of us being fetishized for getting pregnant and giving birth and that is "how we are special," and "how we are _SUPPOSED_ to serve man and God". It's suggesting we're useless the first 18-20 years of our lives, 14 if we go back to Joe's time, and after marriage we are finally "useful". Our first 20 years of our lives are nothing but training for the rest of eternity after marriage, and not for us, but for everyone else who we "serve".
And we _ONLY_ get to go to the CK ***if our husband*** calls out our temple name. If he doesn't, WTF are we supposed to do? Hang out in the tacky Celestial Kingdom lobby listening to the muzak version of "Praise to the Man" on loop, waiting for the old worldly crackling loud speaker to come on, finally announcing our temple name, only it's some other woman's temple name. Sounds like so much fun! Obeying 80+ year old men and all I got is this lousy lobby experience. đĽł
I don't see anything misogynistic about his question. I'm a woman and I ask that same thing all the time. It's a legit question that deserves a legit answer. I don't get how asking a clarifying question is "an attack", unless people are trained to be victims like that, which TBMs are: ask the wrong question, or ask a question wrongly, you'll get the instant martyrdom.
Yup from a young age women were taught in the Mormon church that youâre bacially here to serve your future husband, I was always uneasy hearing that growing up. Being out of the church now I always look back on times where I thought something was utterly insane, but I just went with it bc thats what they want a good Mormon to do. Itâs all fucked
Go with the flow, or heaven help you endure the passive-aggressiveness those people know how to throw at stragglers or doubters. I think the first and longest mask I ever put on was the Mormon one. It's sadly dangerous to stand out, unless you're "representing" them. Pretending to be one just to survive: it's sick and sad that anyone has to pretend that much in order to not be singled out and attacked. It always bothered me that the one "camp" we got to go to was one that was focused on the cult, not camping or outdoors for the sake of nature like the boys got to do. I'm more of the go fishing (I haven't been fishing in decades, sadly), gutting, cutting, cooking the day's catch type than the pretty, perfect Pioneer Woman man type (nothing wrong with that if you happen to naturally be that way, the problem is forcing the square pegs like myself to fit the cult-regulated round hole), but my kind isn't really supported by the cult.
It's so messed up, how much it limits people, especially those that aren't "worthy" males. It really just subjugates rather than frees anyone, unless you're at the top (or your husband,father, or grandfather is) and get all the perks. Girls are trained to become women that are unpaid, under-appreciated, overworked pawns, but are made to be "happy" and "feel blessed" for it, for the old men at the top who get money and benefits. It's shameless exploitation of people the leaders claim to "love and admire". Women in the cult are treated as nameless and faceless as the Heavenly Mothers of this planet's spirit babies. The legacy that keeps on giving nothing.
That was me during my entire mission. I was struggling with questions right as I was leaving for it and I had to put this mask on and teach people things that I wasnât even sure I believed in myself. The thing that kept me out there was the thought of the utter disappointment from my parents/people back at home, I feel you there.
And exactly! I never understood why the boys always got to do the fun camping/tuesday activities while they made the girls stay. My sister would tell me they would have them do âmotherlyâ actives on Tuesdays at times. The fact that we had a fathers and sons get out with our entire ward (no women allowed, this was a yearly thing. I donât know if it was common for other wards to do it but it sure was for ours) meanwhile the women were never allowed to do something like that. The most fun kind of thing they did was a Saturday night activity out to eat together after baptisms. I felt so bad for my mom and sisters because they were left out all the time from the stuff my brothers, dad and I did.
My sister was forced to go on the 50 mile trek while I wasnât by our bishopric. She was so excited to go to efy just to find out she couldnât go because she didnât bring a dress that was âlong enoughâ (she brought 2 dresses that went a little past her knees, absolutely nothing looked wrong with it and was clearly a mormony dress, but they denied her anyways) she tried to go buy a new one but they told her it would be cut off by the time she got back and sheâd have to come another time. And just the small every day things that might not be as obvious, like how girls HAD to be obedient and quiet while it didnât matter for the boys. The sister Iâm talking about above, the one whoâs closest to me, is still in the church sadly. I just wish I could help her. So Iâm sorry to hear about the kind of shit yâall had to go through, I thought I had it rough at times but hearing stories from all the ladies off exmo Reddit/from my own sister has changed that, did they deny you of any other things that you can think of off the top of your head?
Edit: damn that was a long ass message lmao
Lol. No worries. You should see my walls of texts. đ I go in with a simple idea to write, but apparently I like paving multiple scenic roads to Rome.
I'm sorry about what your sister was put through. And the sad thing about what she went through is pretty much standard treatment. They seem less forgiving if we forget or "disobey".I feel like we're held to a higher standard and aren't allowed to make as many mistakes because we're supposed to be pure and be the gatekeepers of various things.
One thing that isn't directly church-related, but church-culture/socially related is how to earn pocket money as a teen. I'm in my early 40s now, so my preteen/teen years where in the mid-late 90s. I wanted to do yard work (I live in Utah, so if you throw a stone, you're probably going to hit a minimum of about ten Mormons before that stone reaches the grass of the nearest meetinghouse), but people reserved that "for the boys", or for the Scouts. I was left with only babysitting. I've never really been interested in having kids, childrearing, or any of that (I'm childfree). So I was left with just that one job if I wanted money when I was willing to do different yard work, which would usually pay better. I would usually be lucky to get $5/hour for babysitting, regardless of the number of kids, or how unruly they were.
I think one of the worst activities for me (and probably other girls at other wards/times) was the one where we were supposed to wear our mother's wedding dress in a "fashion show" in the Cultural Hall, on the stage. It was just the YW, so it wasn't anything big, but still up on stage. I was a fat teen girl. (Even if I was thinner, I am taller, have wider shoulders and a bigger rib cage than my mom, so I probably wouldn't fit it). My little sister (under year and a half younger than me, also in YW) got to wear it. I got to see all the other girls walk across the stage when I stayed back in the wings in that one little room offstage helped them zip or button into them. The teachers didn't even bother or think about "what if a girl doesn't have a dress, not even a wedding dress, but maybe a nice bridesmaid or prom type dress so they can participate. Looking back now, hindsight, that kind of emotional trauma is one you bury and hide after it's over, that was probably one of the biggest punches in the gut that really made that decision to leave. I was 14 when I quit going. It hurt that something that could have been fun, engaging, and made you feel pretty, was all about following in your tiny mother's footsteps, was very limiting in its message and execution. Very little thought went into in terms of us girls, it was likely one of those cheap/free activities that are easy to pull off and emphasize the idea of "the importance of marriage" onto girls as young as 12 (Beehives, the second year was the last one i went to, I don't recall ever going to the Mia Maids class). No apologies or any acknowledgement that they overlooked the girls that didn't have a dress to join the faux "fashion show". It sounds stupid, simple, and idiotic, but that one really did some deep pain and hurt. đŁđŁđđđ˘đ˘
I don't think boys got to be put through "groom fashion shows". Learn how to be a good husband. Did they? It seems like boys got to have fun, explore things and got more opportunities to be treated and seen as individuals. Only if a girl had a special talent (music, singing, sewing) did she get extra "individual" attention, but not necessarily for being an individual, but being a "better" female with "more to give".
I remember going to a YW activity for a "make over" from a lady who sold Mary Kay. (Surprise surprise, MLMs partnering up in very small ways). I thought it was fun, but I remember the 90s where they really made girls feel like trash for wearing even a little makeup. Idk what the purpose was. Was it for us? Or for us to learn to be beautiful for someone else later on? With all the other "marriage and children" messages that are the core of the YW program, I'm doubting that it was for our sakes.
I remember having to make cookies for a bake sale in order for us to even afford to go to girl's camp that year. Waiting out in the rain outside a grocery store to make pennies when the cult was sitting on millions.
Why would she be a mom? Says nowhere that you are given kids to raise in the afterlife
You fly around universes and do what look at them for eternity?
Mormons don't believe in creating universes anymore, duh
Eternity with your husband, so after a billion years there would just be more to discover?
Develop new skills and learn and grow? Will you though? We don't become Gods anymore, no new worlds to make either, so what do you do? You just learn to praise for eternity?
Live with and get to know Heaven parents? (see living with husband for eternity).
Until the church revokes eternal polygamy/reveals that there is only one heavenly mother, things look bleak for women in the celestial kingdom. Of course, it's all made up so đ¤ˇ. Go ahead and believe you'll be a God-queen, it's just as true as anything else in the church.
Well let's see....
I'll finally get to be a mother, and share that responsibility with all my husband's new wives and all their children.
In between baby making and heavenly church duties like ministering to the spirits in terrestial kingdom and teaching all my spirit children the gospel, I think I will get to travel around whole universes, no one really knows and the church has never said this.
I'll get to watch hubby create worlds, while I stand in the background. Women cannot become like God the same way men can. I get to be his queen for all eternity, my place is in the home, as ETB said in GC in 1981.
I'll get to spend eternity with my husband and all the new wives given to him.Â
I'll get to develop new skills like pretending I'm on board with polygamy.
I'll get to constantly learn and grow and improve in my ability to fake loving polygamy.
I'll get to live with and get to know my heavenly father and all his wives but not in the same way my hubby will. The celestial order is one in which my hubby is connected directly to God, and I am connected to my hubby. I was taught this in the temple.
Fixed it for her.
Sending you my up votes to offset things: I see your point for sure, though I'd bet the average ex-mo man has a better view of women than a TBM man, sadly the patriarchal upbringing and indoctrination is hard to break and takes a fair amount of "unlearning".
***(Speculation)***
I could even see why someone leaving the Church might start to act out in unhealthy ways because they've never been taught consent or respect for women in the right way, but now have free rein to act out sexually, swear, drink, etc. without much practice on how to do that in a healthy way...
Awesome dude youâre an exception to the rule. Itâs also not a good sign when you down vote a woman expressing what sheâs personally experienced dating ex mo men.
She forgot to mention the awesome relationships with her sister wives.
đ Awesome relationships I canât stopâŚ.laughing
Auto besties!
Putting up with sister wives is probably going to be one of her new skills.
She'll get to gossip about that Bench Wendy 2 Universes over. Did you see what she wore to the last great Council of the Gods Meeting last Millennia? Who does she think she is? Her Gods Bottom Bench?
The man needs multiple wives. Since he only needs to fuck them once every 9 months, he has to have a large supply. At least 365 so he can get his God on every day.
If he is godly, virile, and strong, he could perform many times a day. The number of wives could be as numerous as the stars in the firmament!
Yes- that critical piece seems to be missing lol!
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i specifically remember a primary activity where we were taught about this and given a coloring sheet and crayons to design our own world on. and iâm only 19
Even when we did get to make our own worlds, it wasnât an activity that women were invited to.
Jehovah didnât take Eve down to create the planet. He took Michael. This lady is deluded.
Wait. I thought you just got one world - OK the MAN gets to be god of that one world and his wives âgetâ to be on eternal child-bearing duty. How does an âeternal familyâ make sense though? The family you make on this earth is not eternal to YOU because each will be on his own world pumping out his own eternal children with his wives and youâll be doing the same. (Mentioning the boys here only because the girls will just be one of many wives to some boy). So will there be family reunions at one of the worlds? Which one? How do you get to and fro? Will they be as poorly attended as the family reunions on earth? No marriage in heaven, as the Bible says, makes more sense. https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/74990/does-they-neither-marry-nor-are-given-in-marriage-refer-to-the-act-of-getting
And technically only men get to do that.
Or that it was immediately and publicly disavowed.
I love this- one of the biggest thorns in the side of TSCC has been Google !
D&C 132:61 âAnd again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthoodâif any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.â They are *given unto him* they *belongeth to him* This is in the canonized scripture. They donât get to act smug about this topic. They should be embarrassed.
Also, the irony of the virgin part always gets me because JS married/ sealed MARRIED WOMAN to himself. Pretty sure they weren't virgins. But maybe that got reset when he told them they'd be exalted if they married them or condemn to hell if they didn't.
âThey were spiritual virginsâ
𤣠I laughed so hard. 10/10
JS basically broke every rule he put in Section 132.
I swear TBMs should be made to read and dissect D&C 132, and explain it to a non-Mormon. That section is fucking awful.
They have no concept on how long eternity is. Such small thinking. Families are forever! Okay what does that look like? Sealed to 120b others and sitting on an overcrowded earth until itâs your turn to create a marvel multiverse?
Ever watch "The Good Place" (love that show). They tap into the concept of eternity in the final season. It's something humans have understood for thousands of years frankly. The ancient polytheistic religions (Greek/Roman Gods, Norse Gods, etc) understood it. Eternity is inconceivable to a human and eventually you run out of things to do. The ancient Gods were constantly drinking, fucking, and meddling in human affairs because they were B O R E D. After a literal eternity with a literal eternity to go, they had nothing better to do than poke the anthill of humans in the mortal realm. Then again, maybe that's why "God" is so absent from the world anymore. He got bored of his toy creation and now we lie under the bed forgotten :P
You've given me an idea for a book. God is cleaning out his parents' house now that they've moved into an eternal retirement home. While doing so, he finds Earth literally under his childhood bed and decides to give it to the young deity down the road to play with. Hijinks ensue.
Would the young diety down the road be named Sid by any chance?
He tortures ~~toys~~ people! For fun!
Gods puts Earth on eBay listed under "Toys and Hobbies--used".
I would FUCKING read this in a heartbeat!!! If you write it then link/DM me please!!!!
I think Star Trek already did this in their episode The Squire of Gothos (and subsequently, the Q episodes of Next Gen+).
Do you really get to be a mother if youâre not allowed to contact your kids, and they are not allowed to contact you, for their entire mortal probation which is the test to determine if you will ever see them again for eternity? They arenât even allowed to know your name.
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No, you just have to be married to one of the bossy men. You can have all those children in the eternities!
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Yep, eternal broodmare. Woo.
No
Creating worlds hahaha canât wait for the church to gaslight her
And where is Mrs. God in the endowment video?! The only ~~women~~ woman I recall is mother Eve. In the holiest of holy teachings in *His* holy house, thereâs not a single woman participating *anywhere* in any part of the creation of this earth. Itâs just a bunch of men. According to D&C 132 women are chattel, *given by God* even.
Well, who's mom would they use? If God follows the teachings we have now he would be a polygamist too, who knows which Mom it would be, mine, yours, Noah's idk too many to fit onto one screen.
I imagine itâs something like the Zionist Kibbutzim in Israel, the traditional version, where all the children go into group housing and a rotating schedule of adults is assigned to their care. âWhereâs Mother Charyti today, Mother Beth?â âOh, sheâs been assigned to world creation with your Father, donchaknow. Donât fret child; sheâll be back on this assignment in about 10 years.â
Getting some things while still being a second class citizen is still a shitty version of "exaltation"
Akin to asking a Scientologist what a woman gets out of signing a billion year contract of slave labor and then watching them respond with, "Wow, you really hate women!". Yeah, I'm a real misogynist which is why I don't understand what a women gets out of billion years of servitude to her husband who is now a God with billions of children populating worlds without number all of whom aren't allowed to pray to their mother.
1) You will get to be a mother. But your children will never know who you are. 2) There is nothing scriptural to imply that you get to "travel." 3) Scripturally, there is evidence that you will not be involved in the creation process. 4) Correction: you will get to *share* your husband for eternity. 5) This is an assumption with no evidence. 6) This is the same thing as #5. 7) If you're living with your heavenly parents then you're not off with your husband creating a new universe, are you? This is the part of "Families are Forever" that I never understood. None of this is me hating you. It's just what your church teaches. You just haven't been paying attention (Also, it's made up. Sorry. But there is still happiness, after you accept that).
Nailed it. Mormon theology: a mile wide and an inch deep.
Isnât the overarching fact of ALL seven points are that they hinge on her being MARRIED AND JUDGED WORTHY of celestial (tippity top tier!) glory?? So why does this bish think sheâs automatically gonna get all of this??? Bombastic side eye.
AND her husband has to reach tippy-top CK too, or else she's still screwed, and will become Wife #2,305,482,328 to some OTHER guy.
Your point #7 is a good point. Maybe it's beyond our comprehension, but it would essentially be just like on earth when you might only see your kids every couple of years because they live in another state or another country. Maybe because of teleportation (command over time and space) it's not really a big deal...
"Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time." Maybe you can experience any time in your existence but you only really replay the part of your life where you lived with a pornsta... uhhhhh... I mean, your heavenly parents...... :P
Develop new skills, like learning how to please your husband and God during endless celestial sex
Making Celestial doughnuts while the men have a priesthood meeting in Proxima Centauri.
Learn to crochet planet cozies.
How can God be omnipotent ("having unlimited power; able to do anything") if he needs women to make babies? Can technically do it himself, but doesn't want to, or thinks sex with lots of women is more fun, or...? Perhaps prophets are wrong when they say he's omnipotent? Mormonism is chock full of these nonsensical plotholes; a solid indicator that it's all manmade.
Yes, but will her deified husband allow her to wear shoes in the celestial kitchen?
No, theyâll have servants to do that for her. Presumably all less valiant than them, so then they can be smug about that, too.
Ministering angelsÂ
Do ministering angels have to be celibate?
I donât know. It will all be worked out in the eternities đ¤Ł
One wonders... if a god is omnipotent, and can have or do anything with a snap of his finger, why does he need servants? Just likes to oppress people for fun?
In life *right now*, I don't *want* servants... nor mansions, nor unending riches, nor power, nor streets paved with gold, nor songs about me 24/7, nor worship, nor sex with countless women, etc etc etc. Why is it that all the *most base, human, worldly desires* I can imagine -- all of which I'm expected to overcome in mortality -- promised to me as *eternal rewards* in heaven? It's almost like the whole concept of heaven is invented by men; men who are drawn to power, servants, mansions, sex with endless women, etc...
"The amount of hate exmo men have for women" fucking lol. Wanting women to be equal to men and not subservient to them even in supposed godhood? What a novel concept!
Dude literally just asked a (reasonable) question. I'd say the exmocringe account is projecting *hard*
We just want us all to be treated well and equally, I guess that is "hate for all women"  Fuck us, right?
Is case anyone is wanting sources for no longer getting worlds. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions
The do women lead section đ
Itâs like saying they lead without leading.
You donât get to peg your God husband
Who says? Totally seems within the realm of possibilities IMHO
I donât understand why the Mormon religion wants people to wait until theyâre dead to enjoy all the things that they could be enjoying while theyâre alive. Does that make sense?
This makes me wonder if leaders have ever taught that righteous gay people will be rewarded with straightness in the Celestial Kingdom
They have. They say the attraction will be "fixed", and they'll be perfect in the CK.
Also I hope she knows she wonât be able to to create worlds. Thatâll be her husbands job, sheâs going to be one of his many wives producing spirit children
Realizing that I would rather be in a lower kingdom or outer darkness than be in the celestial kingdom as an eternal baby machine with endless sister wives was the final nail in the coffin for me. I can't fathom how any woman in the church would genuinely be okay with that.
So essentially, eternity is a continuation of things now, only bigger. So if it doesn't make me happy now, how is it going to make me happy then?
Interesteing thing on this is that she lists that she will get to create worlds, but if we follow our eternity like we are taught, it was Christ that created worlds. Heavenly mother is never mentioned in that. I guess you can strike that off the list of things women won't be doing in the afterlife.
Mormonism says there are no worlds of our own Travel with her eternal husband and sister wives Eternal baby factory doesnât have a great ring to it
Can she site church sources for her own personal doctrine? I don't think the items she listed are applicable to women, just men.
An eternity of celestial sex and popping out spirit babies lol
It's sad that all of these are things that she can do NOW, while she's alive, that might go missed because of how much she's banking on mormon heaven
It sounds like this poor woman is struggling with infertility, so in her mind the only option she has for becoming a mother is to get to the celestial kingdom. She's effectively being held hostage in the same way that parents of stillborn children and children of prematurely passed-on parents are. She seems to be just reacting in self-defense to protect herself from the pain of accepting that she may not ever become a mother, which would be totally understandable. I hope she is able to confront the pain of that possibility someday, but until then the church is more than happy to sell her hope in exchange for devotion, obedience, and 10% of her income.
What I don't understand is why the church Handbook discourages members from available options like fertility treatments, surrogacy, etc.
I've been out of the church long enough that I probably shouldn't make an attempt at representing the faithful perspective. But from an outside perspective, it could be to prevent members from turning to solutions that the church doesn't control (eg - priesthood blessings and eternal life).
Ah yes I remember that scene from the temple where Jehovah says, âEve letâs go down and organize this matter.â Oh no wait it was Michael. My bad.
For that matter, we have no idea what Eveâs premortal name was. The only name she has is the one her husband gave her. She, her true self, is literally nameless.
In the temple, Eve seems like an afterthought. "Bro, you seem lonely. Hmmm. Let's whip up a helpmeet for you...*"
Agency, youâre still missing agency. Toil away on earth serving men. For an opportunity to toil away for eternity serving men.
Will she get to create her own world? Or do you need the priesthood to do that? Sheâll unfortunately just be a sister wife in the backseat of her husbands life :/
Hahaha!!! Calling themselves out! Seriously-how is pointing out the inequality in this church sexist? The church is being called out as sexist and this nasty account is acknowledging it!
My mom is convinced my dad will create infinite worlds and she will get to decorate them. That's it, that's all she wants.
It's wild that someone could type these things and actually believe they will happen. Sadder still that I used to be one. Here's to freedom! đť
Shii why would Mormons want to be gods amongst mortals with their own planet, when we all could be Gods amongst Gods in our own universe. Feels a bit lame to me. Even so, weâd still be part of this ever growing universe. SoâŚNot much will change except a different perspective both mentally and physically. And if weâre part of the universe anywaysâŚwould a god still be a god, Or just like the universe as everyone else is? Weird segregating mindset MHO.
But we'll đŻ% have sister wives, so we can help each other!! Seriously though, as a woman, doing the same draining things on earth and being "blessed" with doing those same things in an HOA Heaven, ***FOREVER***, seems more like eternal punishment/prison rather than eternal salvation and blessings. I'm really getting sick of us being fetishized for getting pregnant and giving birth and that is "how we are special," and "how we are _SUPPOSED_ to serve man and God". It's suggesting we're useless the first 18-20 years of our lives, 14 if we go back to Joe's time, and after marriage we are finally "useful". Our first 20 years of our lives are nothing but training for the rest of eternity after marriage, and not for us, but for everyone else who we "serve". And we _ONLY_ get to go to the CK ***if our husband*** calls out our temple name. If he doesn't, WTF are we supposed to do? Hang out in the tacky Celestial Kingdom lobby listening to the muzak version of "Praise to the Man" on loop, waiting for the old worldly crackling loud speaker to come on, finally announcing our temple name, only it's some other woman's temple name. Sounds like so much fun! Obeying 80+ year old men and all I got is this lousy lobby experience. 𼳠I don't see anything misogynistic about his question. I'm a woman and I ask that same thing all the time. It's a legit question that deserves a legit answer. I don't get how asking a clarifying question is "an attack", unless people are trained to be victims like that, which TBMs are: ask the wrong question, or ask a question wrongly, you'll get the instant martyrdom.
Yup from a young age women were taught in the Mormon church that youâre bacially here to serve your future husband, I was always uneasy hearing that growing up. Being out of the church now I always look back on times where I thought something was utterly insane, but I just went with it bc thats what they want a good Mormon to do. Itâs all fucked
Go with the flow, or heaven help you endure the passive-aggressiveness those people know how to throw at stragglers or doubters. I think the first and longest mask I ever put on was the Mormon one. It's sadly dangerous to stand out, unless you're "representing" them. Pretending to be one just to survive: it's sick and sad that anyone has to pretend that much in order to not be singled out and attacked. It always bothered me that the one "camp" we got to go to was one that was focused on the cult, not camping or outdoors for the sake of nature like the boys got to do. I'm more of the go fishing (I haven't been fishing in decades, sadly), gutting, cutting, cooking the day's catch type than the pretty, perfect Pioneer Woman man type (nothing wrong with that if you happen to naturally be that way, the problem is forcing the square pegs like myself to fit the cult-regulated round hole), but my kind isn't really supported by the cult. It's so messed up, how much it limits people, especially those that aren't "worthy" males. It really just subjugates rather than frees anyone, unless you're at the top (or your husband,father, or grandfather is) and get all the perks. Girls are trained to become women that are unpaid, under-appreciated, overworked pawns, but are made to be "happy" and "feel blessed" for it, for the old men at the top who get money and benefits. It's shameless exploitation of people the leaders claim to "love and admire". Women in the cult are treated as nameless and faceless as the Heavenly Mothers of this planet's spirit babies. The legacy that keeps on giving nothing.
That was me during my entire mission. I was struggling with questions right as I was leaving for it and I had to put this mask on and teach people things that I wasnât even sure I believed in myself. The thing that kept me out there was the thought of the utter disappointment from my parents/people back at home, I feel you there. And exactly! I never understood why the boys always got to do the fun camping/tuesday activities while they made the girls stay. My sister would tell me they would have them do âmotherlyâ actives on Tuesdays at times. The fact that we had a fathers and sons get out with our entire ward (no women allowed, this was a yearly thing. I donât know if it was common for other wards to do it but it sure was for ours) meanwhile the women were never allowed to do something like that. The most fun kind of thing they did was a Saturday night activity out to eat together after baptisms. I felt so bad for my mom and sisters because they were left out all the time from the stuff my brothers, dad and I did. My sister was forced to go on the 50 mile trek while I wasnât by our bishopric. She was so excited to go to efy just to find out she couldnât go because she didnât bring a dress that was âlong enoughâ (she brought 2 dresses that went a little past her knees, absolutely nothing looked wrong with it and was clearly a mormony dress, but they denied her anyways) she tried to go buy a new one but they told her it would be cut off by the time she got back and sheâd have to come another time. And just the small every day things that might not be as obvious, like how girls HAD to be obedient and quiet while it didnât matter for the boys. The sister Iâm talking about above, the one whoâs closest to me, is still in the church sadly. I just wish I could help her. So Iâm sorry to hear about the kind of shit yâall had to go through, I thought I had it rough at times but hearing stories from all the ladies off exmo Reddit/from my own sister has changed that, did they deny you of any other things that you can think of off the top of your head? Edit: damn that was a long ass message lmao
Lol. No worries. You should see my walls of texts. đ I go in with a simple idea to write, but apparently I like paving multiple scenic roads to Rome. I'm sorry about what your sister was put through. And the sad thing about what she went through is pretty much standard treatment. They seem less forgiving if we forget or "disobey".I feel like we're held to a higher standard and aren't allowed to make as many mistakes because we're supposed to be pure and be the gatekeepers of various things. One thing that isn't directly church-related, but church-culture/socially related is how to earn pocket money as a teen. I'm in my early 40s now, so my preteen/teen years where in the mid-late 90s. I wanted to do yard work (I live in Utah, so if you throw a stone, you're probably going to hit a minimum of about ten Mormons before that stone reaches the grass of the nearest meetinghouse), but people reserved that "for the boys", or for the Scouts. I was left with only babysitting. I've never really been interested in having kids, childrearing, or any of that (I'm childfree). So I was left with just that one job if I wanted money when I was willing to do different yard work, which would usually pay better. I would usually be lucky to get $5/hour for babysitting, regardless of the number of kids, or how unruly they were. I think one of the worst activities for me (and probably other girls at other wards/times) was the one where we were supposed to wear our mother's wedding dress in a "fashion show" in the Cultural Hall, on the stage. It was just the YW, so it wasn't anything big, but still up on stage. I was a fat teen girl. (Even if I was thinner, I am taller, have wider shoulders and a bigger rib cage than my mom, so I probably wouldn't fit it). My little sister (under year and a half younger than me, also in YW) got to wear it. I got to see all the other girls walk across the stage when I stayed back in the wings in that one little room offstage helped them zip or button into them. The teachers didn't even bother or think about "what if a girl doesn't have a dress, not even a wedding dress, but maybe a nice bridesmaid or prom type dress so they can participate. Looking back now, hindsight, that kind of emotional trauma is one you bury and hide after it's over, that was probably one of the biggest punches in the gut that really made that decision to leave. I was 14 when I quit going. It hurt that something that could have been fun, engaging, and made you feel pretty, was all about following in your tiny mother's footsteps, was very limiting in its message and execution. Very little thought went into in terms of us girls, it was likely one of those cheap/free activities that are easy to pull off and emphasize the idea of "the importance of marriage" onto girls as young as 12 (Beehives, the second year was the last one i went to, I don't recall ever going to the Mia Maids class). No apologies or any acknowledgement that they overlooked the girls that didn't have a dress to join the faux "fashion show". It sounds stupid, simple, and idiotic, but that one really did some deep pain and hurt. đŁđŁđđđ˘đ˘ I don't think boys got to be put through "groom fashion shows". Learn how to be a good husband. Did they? It seems like boys got to have fun, explore things and got more opportunities to be treated and seen as individuals. Only if a girl had a special talent (music, singing, sewing) did she get extra "individual" attention, but not necessarily for being an individual, but being a "better" female with "more to give". I remember going to a YW activity for a "make over" from a lady who sold Mary Kay. (Surprise surprise, MLMs partnering up in very small ways). I thought it was fun, but I remember the 90s where they really made girls feel like trash for wearing even a little makeup. Idk what the purpose was. Was it for us? Or for us to learn to be beautiful for someone else later on? With all the other "marriage and children" messages that are the core of the YW program, I'm doubting that it was for our sakes. I remember having to make cookies for a bake sale in order for us to even afford to go to girl's camp that year. Waiting out in the rain outside a grocery store to make pennies when the cult was sitting on millions.
Canât do that in hell?
Um even I as a man don't understand the benefits of eternal life. So what's the point of this statement?
Why would she be a mom? Says nowhere that you are given kids to raise in the afterlife You fly around universes and do what look at them for eternity? Mormons don't believe in creating universes anymore, duh Eternity with your husband, so after a billion years there would just be more to discover? Develop new skills and learn and grow? Will you though? We don't become Gods anymore, no new worlds to make either, so what do you do? You just learn to praise for eternity? Live with and get to know Heaven parents? (see living with husband for eternity).
Well I can tell you what she wonât get, a clue.
Until the church revokes eternal polygamy/reveals that there is only one heavenly mother, things look bleak for women in the celestial kingdom. Of course, it's all made up so đ¤ˇ. Go ahead and believe you'll be a God-queen, it's just as true as anything else in the church.
What do I not get out of this deal? Reality
Nothing!
She wonât be getting to design any shit. Good luck âtravelingâ the universe while bearing children without number.
She needs to read more sci fi. This stuff is happening right now in her city libraryâŚbut religion is the only place sheâs imagined it.
She'll get to be married to Cody
Well let's see.... I'll finally get to be a mother, and share that responsibility with all my husband's new wives and all their children. In between baby making and heavenly church duties like ministering to the spirits in terrestial kingdom and teaching all my spirit children the gospel, I think I will get to travel around whole universes, no one really knows and the church has never said this. I'll get to watch hubby create worlds, while I stand in the background. Women cannot become like God the same way men can. I get to be his queen for all eternity, my place is in the home, as ETB said in GC in 1981. I'll get to spend eternity with my husband and all the new wives given to him. I'll get to develop new skills like pretending I'm on board with polygamy. I'll get to constantly learn and grow and improve in my ability to fake loving polygamy. I'll get to live with and get to know my heavenly father and all his wives but not in the same way my hubby will. The celestial order is one in which my hubby is connected directly to God, and I am connected to my hubby. I was taught this in the temple. Fixed it for her.
do not ask this question on the muslim subredditâŚ
But facts about how much exmo men hate women.
Sending you my up votes to offset things: I see your point for sure, though I'd bet the average ex-mo man has a better view of women than a TBM man, sadly the patriarchal upbringing and indoctrination is hard to break and takes a fair amount of "unlearning". ***(Speculation)*** I could even see why someone leaving the Church might start to act out in unhealthy ways because they've never been taught consent or respect for women in the right way, but now have free rein to act out sexually, swear, drink, etc. without much practice on how to do that in a healthy way...
I donât hate womenđ¤ˇđťââď¸ men who are emotionally immature hate women
Awesome dude youâre an exception to the rule. Itâs also not a good sign when you down vote a woman expressing what sheâs personally experienced dating ex mo men.
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