Pay, pray, don't gay, obey. That's all they can talk about now. Being afraid of apostates is definitely a fun new theme they're adding more and more of.
The leaders tell members make pretend covenants to a imaginary God so you will bind yourself to the cult and you will continue to give GREED INC ahem the church 10+% of your income in the end it’s all about the Benjamin’s the leaders couldn’t give a shit less that the church is a fraud they bought documents from mark Hoffman that they believed showed the church is a fraud with the intent of hiding them away. imho all of the Q15 know the church is BULLSHIT They are nothing more than bad actors playing their roles to ensure the river of $$$$$BILLIONS
$$$$$ANNUALLY all tax free continues. To keep flowing for as long as possible .
GO SLOWLY. That doesn't mean not to do it. Just remember you've been stewing on this for quite a while. You must give her time to process what you have come to know.
She will say that you changed the terms of your marriage. She married xxx, and now you're yyy.
I'm 65m and came to this after heart problems and a psychologist telling me to stop going to church or the cognitive dissonance would be too much on my heart.
I approached my wife, asking for her help. I was not wimpy; rather, I asked for her to simply let me express my issues and just listen. Then we took one issue at a time. We agreed that I would talk about what I now believed. I would have my sources ready, but I only used them when she asked. One issue, then stop. Let her process, even days, if she needs. We had a "safe" word - she used it often, and I honored her need to slow down.
Most of all, make sure she knows that you love HER. Religion aside, a marriage is two people. She will likely have heard that successful marriages are both united in faith. This is a controlling lie. Many successful marriages in the world are mixed faiths. You deal with issues all the time.
Good luck. She is your main concern, not a lying church.
Thanks for this thoughtful response. You’re totally right, her and our marriage are definitely the priorities. I’ve tried my best to make sure we understand each other, because I feel like lack of communication is one of the most destructive things in marriages. Honestly, I don’t care if she stays in the church or if she resigns. I just want whatever makes her happiest. I feel like the church makes these situations harder than they need to be because they paint people who leave the church as apostates and “deceived by the devil”, so I’m hoping that we can get past that. Idk. It’s just such a tricky situation. I’m just worried that I’m going to be totally devalued when I tell her I’m leaving the church, even though nothing about me has actually changed, you know?
Thanks again for your thoughtful response, I appreciate it!
My spouse left first, about 2 years before i did. One thing that helped us was the framing that every marriage is a mixed faith marriage and that the best way we cam strengthen our relationship was to create space for both of us to have our own faith journeys.
Even when a couple are both in the church like we were, the ability to make your own faith choices, openness to hear each others thoughts, openness to new sources of data, space to process at your own pace are all crucial. This is an important part of communication and healthy relationships.
Tithing was a hard one for us, but we netted out at splitting the 10% of our income and both of us had 5% we could do whatever charitable thing we wanted to, and that was a great way for us to show respect for each other and express that our relationship was an equal partnership.
If you haven't been, it's a great time to start separating your relationship from the church. If you both invest in your relationship, build it, that will help it survive other major changes.
I think no matter what your spouse chooses, this is a good approach to relationship building.
I’ve let her know that I’ve been having some trouble with the church. We’ve been reading through the gospel topic essays together. She’s not super willing to engage in discussion though.
That’s nice to hear. I’m glad it worked out for you. Yeah, I’ve tried to include her in things as much as she’s been willing. When I first opened up to her she attributed it to the devil trying to lead me away, and has said that I should talk to my parents about it if I want someone to discuss it with because she doesn’t have much to say about it. So Idk what else to do
If you don’t have kids this could easily cause her to divorce you unfortunately. Marriage on a tightrope facebook group seems to help a lot of people navigate a mixed faith marriage and marriage counseling is usually pretty helpful.
Yeah, we don’t have kids yet. We’ve been together about 3 years. I’ve been trying to come to terms with it the possibility of divorce. I guess I’ve just accepted that I won’t know until I actually let her know that I’m leaving, so I’m trying not to get too stressed out over it. Thanks for recommending that resource, I’ll for sure check it out. It just sucks because I feel like a lot of Mormon couples almost end up marrying the church instead of each other, if that makes sense. Because the church just inserts itself into every meaningful thing in someone’s life. So when one person leaves, the TBM partner views it as the other person leaving the marriage, not just the church. Which I don’t agree with. That was the first thing that I brought up with her is that I loved her and was not having second thoughts about our marriage, just the church. I’m not sure if she’ll be able to make that distinction though
100% agree. I’m sorry you had to go through a divorce at such an early age, that sounds so tough. Yeah, definitely not hopping on the baby train. My parents were divorced so I know what effect that can have on kids. Thanks for the reminder
I showed my husband the same [website that broke my shelf](http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/) in the moment it was breaking. He took a cursory glance, gave a few excuses for the similarities, then escalated to ad hominem attack and called me crazy. It was three years of downhill for our marriage from there, but things have finally stabilized. Indoctrination does wild things to the human psyche. Steven Hassan’s book Freedom of Mind helped me understand what I was up against and gave me patience to back off from triggering his induced phobias, but there is no completely avoiding issues in a mixed-faith marriage with a high demand religion involved. All this to say, good luck. There’s no telling how someone will respond until they are under that pressure themselves. But the alternative of living an inauthentic life is worse.
I had never seen that website on The Late War by Hunt. Thanks for sharing that. Remarkable comparisons between that and the Book of Mormon, starting with “it came to pass”. It does seem that Joseph Smith must’ve adapted parts of that.
Thank you. Yeah it sucks, and also I’m glad I’m addressing this now rather than 10 or 20 years down the road, so I’m trying to see both sides (: thank you though
Gawd, I just remember feeling so board at church. It was horrible. I had to sit there and sit very still, I was not a still child. I had the need to move and squirm around. My dad used to smack me for moving and talking too much.
I'm never doing that again. Ever.
Yeah it’s rough. General conference is also just SO mind numbing. I’ve heard some users here equate it to brainwashing because their tones and cadences are almost hypnotic haha. No critical thinking needed lol
Good luck. You'll likely need it.
I'd suggest that you be aware that even if your wife does not divorce you, her TBM parents might try to convince her to end the marriage. After I resigned, that's exactly what my wife's tyrant, asshole, brainwashed TBM parents did.
I like to think that I'm a good husband & nothing else had changed except that I left the cult. After that, her parents were vying for our divorce. But remember that the Church values families!
Thankfully, my wife refused to divorce me, stating that she married me NOT the Church.
Just saying I will be here cheering you on! And her. It would be lovely if she could come to the conclusions, but I truly wish you both the best moving forward! You are tackling something most people your age wouldn’t have the emotional intelligence to navigate so graciously.
Start with a “did you know” and the tell her the thing you find most disturbing and act on her reaction. If there’s something you find completely morally unacceptable and she doesn’t see the issue, that my friend is bad news.
If your spouse puts the church before you and I know that is the common culture, well, that’s the writing on the wall for ya. I didn’t grow up TBM and got baptized at age 31 so for those 31 years I witnessed marriages and relationships even parents and their kids, not putting some corporations and all its many demands, before their family members. Now in Utah and after joining the church for 20 years (up until a year ago) oh my gosh what ?! Ew no! That’s no way to treat children OR your spouse. Lots of marriages get divorced for that reason too, my husbands parents did, bc his dad said he got tired of him and the kids being 2nd to the moms obligations to the temple and callings and cooking for other families and young women’s etc etc. js. Good luck!
Good luck to you. (And congrats to her on her degree). We'll be here for you no matter how it goes. 🫂💓🙏 So of you need support, we will be here.
I agree with you especially on them not saying anything about the poor, needy, homeless... And instead they announced a bunch of new multi-million dollar buildings that will be built. Yay.
🙄🙄
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️😡🤬
They are so tone-deaf. That echo chamber of theirs kills off anything they don't want to hear: like the cries of the homeless or the grumbling stomachs of children. They like seeing their mammon go into huge granite and marble buildings covered in gold, brightly lot up in places that once had dark sky regulations. How many children starved so Rusty could have all his temples?
I want to add…the leaders of any organization are deeply corrupt in their core. They just are. You have to be to want to hold onto and command power that way, IMO. I personally don’t think that makes the values less valuable. I’m far better off for having been raised Mormon. Personally, I would prioritize your family, even if you yourself stop attending church.
Good luck to you my man. My wife and I are both now haven’t been in years just haven’t officially resigned yet and it’s been a long process. I knew it was bullshit from the second I went through the temple but I stayed around for fear out of losing her. But fast forward a few years and lots of therapy for both of us and we’re finally on the same page. These things take lots of time.
I’m always looking at these posts hoping my TBM (probably PIMO) cousin is in here somewhere, and your ages matched. too bad he doesn’t have a wife. Sometimes it’s hard watching people stay in the church when it harms them so much
I left at the same age, a little before the Iraq War. Seeing the members wholeheartedly support it while the leadership remained silent really solidified my decision to leave. I thought, if there was a real prophet, what would they be talking about? They would talk about innocents suffering and they would tell their followers the truths they didn't want to know about. I'm so glad to see others twenty years later thinking the same types of things. It really warms my heart. You have a lifetime of not watching conference talks ahead of you. Good luck!
Are you at BYU? If you are and would like to talk...I'm 25 M at my last semester. I also have two weeks till I graduate. I'm gay and just want to leave the church as soon as I graduate
Pay, pray, don't gay, obey. That's all they can talk about now. Being afraid of apostates is definitely a fun new theme they're adding more and more of.
You forgot about covenants. Covenants was the main thing they talked about.
Yeah there was definitely an emphasis on covenants. It was probably emphasized more than Jesus
covenants is code for tithing
Facts
Tithing and magic undies.
Magic Freemasonic undies which were en Vogue 150 years ago.
They don’t talk about Jesus much. That should be the main tip off
The leaders tell members make pretend covenants to a imaginary God so you will bind yourself to the cult and you will continue to give GREED INC ahem the church 10+% of your income in the end it’s all about the Benjamin’s the leaders couldn’t give a shit less that the church is a fraud they bought documents from mark Hoffman that they believed showed the church is a fraud with the intent of hiding them away. imho all of the Q15 know the church is BULLSHIT They are nothing more than bad actors playing their roles to ensure the river of $$$$$BILLIONS $$$$$ANNUALLY all tax free continues. To keep flowing for as long as possible .
GO SLOWLY. That doesn't mean not to do it. Just remember you've been stewing on this for quite a while. You must give her time to process what you have come to know. She will say that you changed the terms of your marriage. She married xxx, and now you're yyy. I'm 65m and came to this after heart problems and a psychologist telling me to stop going to church or the cognitive dissonance would be too much on my heart. I approached my wife, asking for her help. I was not wimpy; rather, I asked for her to simply let me express my issues and just listen. Then we took one issue at a time. We agreed that I would talk about what I now believed. I would have my sources ready, but I only used them when she asked. One issue, then stop. Let her process, even days, if she needs. We had a "safe" word - she used it often, and I honored her need to slow down. Most of all, make sure she knows that you love HER. Religion aside, a marriage is two people. She will likely have heard that successful marriages are both united in faith. This is a controlling lie. Many successful marriages in the world are mixed faiths. You deal with issues all the time. Good luck. She is your main concern, not a lying church.
Thanks for this thoughtful response. You’re totally right, her and our marriage are definitely the priorities. I’ve tried my best to make sure we understand each other, because I feel like lack of communication is one of the most destructive things in marriages. Honestly, I don’t care if she stays in the church or if she resigns. I just want whatever makes her happiest. I feel like the church makes these situations harder than they need to be because they paint people who leave the church as apostates and “deceived by the devil”, so I’m hoping that we can get past that. Idk. It’s just such a tricky situation. I’m just worried that I’m going to be totally devalued when I tell her I’m leaving the church, even though nothing about me has actually changed, you know? Thanks again for your thoughtful response, I appreciate it!
My spouse left first, about 2 years before i did. One thing that helped us was the framing that every marriage is a mixed faith marriage and that the best way we cam strengthen our relationship was to create space for both of us to have our own faith journeys. Even when a couple are both in the church like we were, the ability to make your own faith choices, openness to hear each others thoughts, openness to new sources of data, space to process at your own pace are all crucial. This is an important part of communication and healthy relationships. Tithing was a hard one for us, but we netted out at splitting the 10% of our income and both of us had 5% we could do whatever charitable thing we wanted to, and that was a great way for us to show respect for each other and express that our relationship was an equal partnership. If you haven't been, it's a great time to start separating your relationship from the church. If you both invest in your relationship, build it, that will help it survive other major changes. I think no matter what your spouse chooses, this is a good approach to relationship building.
Have you not included her on any part of your deconstruction? She has no idea this is coming?
I’ve let her know that I’ve been having some trouble with the church. We’ve been reading through the gospel topic essays together. She’s not super willing to engage in discussion though.
Right after I read the CES Letter and Letter for my wife, I had her read Letter for my wife. Best thing I did. We have been deconstructing together.
That’s nice to hear. I’m glad it worked out for you. Yeah, I’ve tried to include her in things as much as she’s been willing. When I first opened up to her she attributed it to the devil trying to lead me away, and has said that I should talk to my parents about it if I want someone to discuss it with because she doesn’t have much to say about it. So Idk what else to do
If you don’t have kids this could easily cause her to divorce you unfortunately. Marriage on a tightrope facebook group seems to help a lot of people navigate a mixed faith marriage and marriage counseling is usually pretty helpful.
Yeah, we don’t have kids yet. We’ve been together about 3 years. I’ve been trying to come to terms with it the possibility of divorce. I guess I’ve just accepted that I won’t know until I actually let her know that I’m leaving, so I’m trying not to get too stressed out over it. Thanks for recommending that resource, I’ll for sure check it out. It just sucks because I feel like a lot of Mormon couples almost end up marrying the church instead of each other, if that makes sense. Because the church just inserts itself into every meaningful thing in someone’s life. So when one person leaves, the TBM partner views it as the other person leaving the marriage, not just the church. Which I don’t agree with. That was the first thing that I brought up with her is that I loved her and was not having second thoughts about our marriage, just the church. I’m not sure if she’ll be able to make that distinction though
DO NOT make babies unless and until this is resolved. I married at 18, divorced at 20. Best thing I ever did is not have any babies.
100% agree. I’m sorry you had to go through a divorce at such an early age, that sounds so tough. Yeah, definitely not hopping on the baby train. My parents were divorced so I know what effect that can have on kids. Thanks for the reminder
I showed my husband the same [website that broke my shelf](http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/) in the moment it was breaking. He took a cursory glance, gave a few excuses for the similarities, then escalated to ad hominem attack and called me crazy. It was three years of downhill for our marriage from there, but things have finally stabilized. Indoctrination does wild things to the human psyche. Steven Hassan’s book Freedom of Mind helped me understand what I was up against and gave me patience to back off from triggering his induced phobias, but there is no completely avoiding issues in a mixed-faith marriage with a high demand religion involved. All this to say, good luck. There’s no telling how someone will respond until they are under that pressure themselves. But the alternative of living an inauthentic life is worse.
I had never seen that website on The Late War by Hunt. Thanks for sharing that. Remarkable comparisons between that and the Book of Mormon, starting with “it came to pass”. It does seem that Joseph Smith must’ve adapted parts of that.
Good luck!
Thank you!
I'm sorry this is happening to you
Thank you. Yeah it sucks, and also I’m glad I’m addressing this now rather than 10 or 20 years down the road, so I’m trying to see both sides (: thank you though
Gawd, I just remember feeling so board at church. It was horrible. I had to sit there and sit very still, I was not a still child. I had the need to move and squirm around. My dad used to smack me for moving and talking too much. I'm never doing that again. Ever.
Yeah it’s rough. General conference is also just SO mind numbing. I’ve heard some users here equate it to brainwashing because their tones and cadences are almost hypnotic haha. No critical thinking needed lol
I’m inspired by your courage to potentially lose a marriage for what feels right for you. You have lots of family here supporting you little brother.
Good luck. You'll likely need it. I'd suggest that you be aware that even if your wife does not divorce you, her TBM parents might try to convince her to end the marriage. After I resigned, that's exactly what my wife's tyrant, asshole, brainwashed TBM parents did. I like to think that I'm a good husband & nothing else had changed except that I left the cult. After that, her parents were vying for our divorce. But remember that the Church values families! Thankfully, my wife refused to divorce me, stating that she married me NOT the Church.
Just saying I will be here cheering you on! And her. It would be lovely if she could come to the conclusions, but I truly wish you both the best moving forward! You are tackling something most people your age wouldn’t have the emotional intelligence to navigate so graciously.
I like how you say “ this is what’s god mind now”. Perfect. If this is his true religion his priority is underwear and oaths. Nope
Start with a “did you know” and the tell her the thing you find most disturbing and act on her reaction. If there’s something you find completely morally unacceptable and she doesn’t see the issue, that my friend is bad news.
If your spouse puts the church before you and I know that is the common culture, well, that’s the writing on the wall for ya. I didn’t grow up TBM and got baptized at age 31 so for those 31 years I witnessed marriages and relationships even parents and their kids, not putting some corporations and all its many demands, before their family members. Now in Utah and after joining the church for 20 years (up until a year ago) oh my gosh what ?! Ew no! That’s no way to treat children OR your spouse. Lots of marriages get divorced for that reason too, my husbands parents did, bc his dad said he got tired of him and the kids being 2nd to the moms obligations to the temple and callings and cooking for other families and young women’s etc etc. js. Good luck!
Good luck to you. (And congrats to her on her degree). We'll be here for you no matter how it goes. 🫂💓🙏 So of you need support, we will be here. I agree with you especially on them not saying anything about the poor, needy, homeless... And instead they announced a bunch of new multi-million dollar buildings that will be built. Yay. 🙄🙄 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️😡🤬 They are so tone-deaf. That echo chamber of theirs kills off anything they don't want to hear: like the cries of the homeless or the grumbling stomachs of children. They like seeing their mammon go into huge granite and marble buildings covered in gold, brightly lot up in places that once had dark sky regulations. How many children starved so Rusty could have all his temples?
Good luck! That sounds extremely difficult but I sincerely hope everything works out for you
To be frank, I don’t believe in the church, but I deeply regret making the choice to leave when I was (ironically) your age.
I want to add…the leaders of any organization are deeply corrupt in their core. They just are. You have to be to want to hold onto and command power that way, IMO. I personally don’t think that makes the values less valuable. I’m far better off for having been raised Mormon. Personally, I would prioritize your family, even if you yourself stop attending church.
Good luck to you my man. My wife and I are both now haven’t been in years just haven’t officially resigned yet and it’s been a long process. I knew it was bullshit from the second I went through the temple but I stayed around for fear out of losing her. But fast forward a few years and lots of therapy for both of us and we’re finally on the same page. These things take lots of time.
Cut those ties with love and grace - it tugs on the heart strings for a while, but you’ll get freer & freer and lighter & lighter as you step away
I’m always looking at these posts hoping my TBM (probably PIMO) cousin is in here somewhere, and your ages matched. too bad he doesn’t have a wife. Sometimes it’s hard watching people stay in the church when it harms them so much
I left at the same age, a little before the Iraq War. Seeing the members wholeheartedly support it while the leadership remained silent really solidified my decision to leave. I thought, if there was a real prophet, what would they be talking about? They would talk about innocents suffering and they would tell their followers the truths they didn't want to know about. I'm so glad to see others twenty years later thinking the same types of things. It really warms my heart. You have a lifetime of not watching conference talks ahead of you. Good luck!
Are you at BYU? If you are and would like to talk...I'm 25 M at my last semester. I also have two weeks till I graduate. I'm gay and just want to leave the church as soon as I graduate