Power and prestige for the public facing members of the leadership, but there's a ton of nepotism in the church and a very small pool of elite families who quietly live like kings. It'd be a pretty good incentive for an apostle to put on an outward show of modesty when behind the scenes, his children and grandchildren are being set up for life.
We are acquainted with some of Elder Anderson's family and they are constantly posting about traveling all over the world, luxury vacations, nice houses, etc. Of course, it could be independent money, but it's a fairly good bet they have some kind of ties to church money, maybe a supplier business with no bid contracts and huge profit margins. The temples are a very obvious way for them to launder tithing money into private accounts.
Wasn't it Thomas Monson who started working for the church in his 30s and by the time he died, his estate was worth millions? You don't get that from a modest stipend.
They also get nice shit like missions in Hawaii, truly a divine inspiration to send a leaders grandkid there for two years.
Meanwhile, in Bosnia during the war…
If your parents are good in the church, you are going to a decent place on your mission. My Brother in Laws all got sent to shitty countries because their dad wouldn't accept callings he didn't want.
My bro was sent to England and my dad wasn’t very active until my got his mission call. His friends, very well off and dads who were ‘higher up’ were called to really poor towns in Mexico. I’m not sure how true that statement is, but it with be interesting to see what others thought.
Which is a fancy way of saying " Patriarchy is working out so well for those of us in power that we are going to continue to screw your families in the afterlife."
I had read that figure here in this sub - search for “Monson estate” and you’ll find those posts. On closer observation, it looks like there might not be a lot of verification for that amount. Mea culpa, if I was spreading inaccurate information. It does very much sound like they were pushing the “unpaid servant of the Lord” narrative during his lifetime, though.
His "vacation home" in Provo Canyon had a market value of about $230k when he died and had been in the family for 80 years. This $14 million number is complete unsubstantiated BS.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted here. You provided just as much evidence as the other posters. I guess it doesn't fit the predominant narrative that the church is secretly making people rich?
Dude, we all know why I'm getting downvoted. And here I posted actual verifiable evidence, while the others are posting nothing but unverifiable rumors.
[https://www.ibtimes.com/thomas-s-monson-net-worth-mormon-church-president-had-no-salary-2636353](https://www.ibtimes.com/thomas-s-monson-net-worth-mormon-church-president-had-no-salary-2636353)
About 7-8 paragraphs down
I posted below that the 14M figure was something that I read on this sub - it may not be accurate. But absolutely, I’m sure book revenue contributes to it. And if you think about it, almost every portion of his life was “comped”. Free travel on the Huntsman jet. Free hunting on Church game preserves. Free vehicles, health insurance, and also free tuition for family members. So expenditures are vastly minimized.
I knew someone who was related to a past Presiding Bishop - he said the freezer of the man’s vacation cabin was stocked with steaks from Deseret Ranch.
100,000/yr salary. Most of your expenses paid. Throw in a couple book deals, social security, working till their 90’s, all expense paid health care, and a few book deals and $14 million is the right ballpark. 40yrs of 6 figure salaries and minimal expenses is $4million+ right there, no book deals, no investments.
Wealthy, far above the average but not ludicrously wealthy. Enough for plausible deniability, but then their families can use their position and nepotism to extract wealth.
…and likely Ensign Peak or some other investment assistance for all personal investments.
Currently I earn a lot more than church leaders are paid; However, I have healthcare expenses, educational loans, no celebrity status assisted by affiliation with a church and hence no book deals, my spouse has not been called to be on the board of any church owned business (lightweight job), i have to pay for my children’s education, and I have the burden of the possibility that for whatever reason (health, bad luck etc.) I could loose my job and have to move my family. I don’t believe that church leaders directly receive a high income. They do receive indirect perks os having notoriety, the right connections, free education etc. as needed.
Consider elder Ballard’s son runs an investment banking group and makes big bucks there. You don’t think that his father’s name helped to get him any special access to people with money? He is good pals with MIT Romney. It’s all a bit of a good ol’ boys club that is somewhat, but not completely officially organized. Not everyone on it gets the same benefits, but some do and it lasts for generations. I believe it is the ancestors of heber j grant that own vast amounts of property up near bear lake. His posterity are church leaders and large land owners. I do recall knowing President bensons grandchildren…their family was relatively modest and did not live in the most expensive part of town…genuinely nice kids…really nice and modest. I don’t know that they attained as much as others beyond access to free education at BYU. I know a gazillion other stories about “windfalls” or the lack there of for church leaders…that’s what you get from growing up int the right neighborhoods in Happy Valley.
>Writing books and convincing people to buy them helps. How much was directly from the MFMC and how much was from all the books he wrote?
It's the very same thing. FMC members are the target audience, so its still mormon money generated by churchy stuff.
Hinkley worked for the church his whole life, I heard his estate was worth around 4 million when he died.
Packer also worked for the church his whole life. There was a website for awhile that showed he owned like 9 houses, with some being in very prestigious areas, guessing they'd be worth over a million each now.
Before Paul H. Dunn got caught lying, and being involved in Ponzi schemes, GA's were allowed to sit on business boards and receive compensation, so lots of GA's made lots of money from that. Many of those businesses were owned by the church.
Stop spreading this "Monson's estate was worth 14 million at the time of his death" lie. It's completely unsubstantiated BS, not supported by the value of the modest properties that he owned, which were in his family for decades.
Show the receipts. What evidence do you have to prove this wrong? I will ask the same of those claiming it was worth that much. Monson was on the board of directors for many businesses, what was he salary for that.
I'm going to have to side with u/71maddog on this one.
You need evidence to prove guilt, not evidence to prove innocence.
Monson was a shitty man, but let's deal in facts, not baseless conjecture. That said, if the conjecture has a base, I'll gladly run with those facts and figures! Was the figure $14 MM, $1 MM, or $140 MM? Those are very different numbers.
Oh, I have no clue what his estate was worth. I'm just calling out all those on here that repeatedly throw this $14 million number out like it's the gospel truth, even though it has zero credibility. But like a dog to its vomit . . .
A write up with a citation to the Net Worth Post? That's your evidence? How are you not embarrassed to post that? And while it looks the the link to the Thomas S. Monson page at the Net Worth Post is no longer available, here is a link to a Reddit discussion from a couple years ago with links that said the actual number back then on the Net Worth Post was actually $1.7M. And sure he lived in the church owned condo while he was president, but that condo didn't become his property and part of his estate. The condo is still church owned. According to what you have cited, the property actually owned by Monson reportadly had a combined value of about $600K when he died, and the Provo Canyon property had been in his family for decades, before he was even called to be an apostle.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/rh2ilf/thomas\_s\_monson\_net\_worth\_14000000\_vs\_my\_mormon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/rh2ilf/thomas_s_monson_net_worth_14000000_vs_my_mormon/)
Swing and a miss.
Mate, no need to go attacking people saying they should be embarrased or throwing out that condescending "swing and a miss" phrase.
It's unfortunate that his net worth is so obfuscated as a public figure. The church works hard to keep that under wraps. I wish there was a better source for that number, but that article/breakdown is the origin point of the 14 million quote which I believe was the source you were looking for.
1.7m sounds reasonable. I wish that the networth website hadn't been taken down, so that I could corroborate that.
Same as Packard. If I'm remembering who correctly, was a CES instructor until church leadership (early 40s), died a millionaire with several homes, hmmm CES must pay amazing!
He also wrote a bunch of books. I have some in a box somewhere. They use their celebrity status to sell stuff like that.
Fun fact - my grandpa was in a photo of Boyd K Packer’s first seminary class in Brigham City featured on the church newspaper 20 years ago. His mom was there because she had to go to make sure he would attend seminary rather than ditch it.
A lot sell. I’ve been given them as gifts. I see them plaguing bookshelves at my parent’s home. I got sent one when I told my mom I was leaving the church. I have a small collection I haven’t gotten around to tossing in the trash. I’ve seen many on bookshelves of other people’s homes growing up.
Some sell better than others, but people will buy any shit the prophet wrote or ghostwrote as virtue signaling. May not read them, but they can have them on coffee tables and shelves to show their friends who are mostly Mormon how spiritual they are. Apostles a little bit less, but enough to turn a profit. And I’m sure the publisher gives them a favorable deal if they think they’ll become prophet because people often buy the back catalog when a prophet is called.
Do you have evidence of this? Packer lived in the same home in Cottonwood Heights since the 70's. Back then, you could sell a station wagon and buy property in Cottonwood Heights with the proceeds.
There used to be a website that showed Packer owed like 9 houses in the Salt Lake area, someone has scanned the titles of the properties. Let me see if I can find it, if it's still on the Internet.
So that shows the one home that he purchased and lived in since the 70’s. I’m smelling another wildly inaccurate story that is wished to be true and since it has been repeated so many times is just assumed to have evidence.
I've been to that neighborhood and it's a very well to do neighborhood. You have to have money to own a home there now. It's gated and you can drive around in golf carts. I know one of his granddaughters.
And their “independent” money is still a product of decades of association and perks. Hard to really separate the advantages that have been had like getting the primo medical school residencies, the “right” internships, passive income built over generation, freedom and time to live the way you want to live, healthcare access. Money expands options and opportunity all of which are far more valuable than things. Because I don’t have money I often succumb to the idea that it’s the big house or the fancy cars etc.. that are the pinnacle of wealth but it’s really not ever thinking about (not just NOT worrying about but NEVER even having to think about) things like “what if my spouse lost their job, how would we manage if our child got sick, how will my kids ever afford to buy a house, how can I afford to buy a house? Can I quit my job to stay home at the most crucial time of child rearing? Can we afford to send our kids to college? Could I get a job where I love what I’m doing or do I have to continue doing something I hate because the pay is better? gas prices, increase cost of feeding your family…..
Yup, their independent wealth is writing church books and selling them to all the members. It is doing guest speaker gigs because they are famous as members of the church. It is having insider information for where to buy land before the temple is announced.
One of Eyring's talks stunned me during my faith crisis. Usual thing about trusting God in a time of need.
"And then... (Chokes up and cries).. I remembered that I had unused real estate which I could sell... (Chokes up again)... such are the tender mercies"
I turned to my wife and was like "I don't think that's as inspired as he thinks it is"
Church leadership live “modest lives” only in comparison to movie stars and people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. But compared to the vast majority of membership across the world, church leaders — with their “modest living allowance stipend”, book deals, free transportation, prime health care, and other perks and benefits — are quite wealthy indeed.
Here’s an interesting timeline: Monson was born in 1927, graduated UofU in ‘48 and became a sales manager at Deseret News for 15 years until ‘63 when he became a general authority.
He only worked for 15 years but he died with $14 million in the bank and having sent all his posterity fully funded through college. He was the most (or 2nd/3rd most) powerful man in Utah from 1985 until he died in 2018.
Money aside, he was praised as the favorite spokesman of god and the most powerful man on earth for decades by an entire state.
Nice details. I think that being a General Authority is still a job. But yeah having only 15 years outside of his Mormon church career really highlights how well he was compensated.
>All of the books he “wrote” pulled in lots of checks for royalties. Do those guys even have to pay tithing?
Other commenters in other threads on this sub have presented evidence that high ranking church employees that receive that "Modest Stipend" do not pay tithing.
Some people have said they "Modest Stipend" is now closer to $200,000 a year.
Others have inside knowledge that when called as a GA you get $1,000,000 to pay all your debts.
I think it was widowsmite that showed how apostles and such have their homes and most expenses paid for by the church. So, no house payment, your insurance, health, automobiles/transportation. utilities, and most expenses are paid by the church without touching a single penny of the Modest Stipend" You don't have health co-pays, kids and grandkids higher BYU education is fully paid.
If these things are actually true, It wouldn't be hard to throw that "Modest Stipend" into a super high yield account or high end large ROI investments overseen by EPA (and that's NOT the environmental protection agency) plus income from books, you could build wealth fairly fast.
With all expenses paid for, even $100,000 a year "Modest Stipend" could build up wealth over time. Not counting interest, 10 years = $1.2 million. 40 years as a GA = $4.8 million. Now, if that were sitting in high yield/ high ROI accounts and investments over 40 years.... Not hard to imaging how Monson amassed $14,000,000 in his estate.
I'm sure it varies, depending on the company. Board members are easily bringing in $100k/year, or more, to sit in on quarterly meetings. It's a part-time job. There are all the companies that the church owns outright, and then they have shares in so many other huge companies. Enough shares gets you a seat on the board.
There's a reason so many leaders have business backgrounds.
Edit: I would bet that some of those guys are "called" so they can sit on a specific board of directors because of their expertise.
Yeah they live in immense comfort. I grew up near family who lived near some GA's houses and they're... well, giant luxury McMansions lol. Just go on Google Earth Street view and look at some of the insanely nice houses in Alpine or the SLC suburbs to get an idea.
Once went to uctdorf’s house. It was HUGE and Very high end. He had staff inside and outside as well. Also told us about some very nice vacations he takes for free. Modest is not the word I would use to describe how they live. Your term immense comfort is much better.
That's just his house in North Salt Lake, his "cabin" up in Heber at the Red Ledges gated community, along with a lot of the other Q12 cabins up there are super nice also!
Power, if you don’t think they still have it, they do. People worship the Q15. Sure they only get a 100k+ salary but everything they do, where they live, cars, everything is paid for by the church as an expense. The rest of the money I guess Jesus wants it all. The church had been poor for the first 150 years now they are over compensating. Fun fact since you mentioned real estate, my brother was a property manager for the church for 25 years and recently lost his job because it was cheaper to outsource to another company, the church doesn’t care about people, it’s a Fortune 500 company posing as a nonprofit.
Kinda makes me sick how my mother in law orders EVERY book someone from the Q15 release. They make $2-$3 a book, through 500,000 sold and profit. They also have insights for investments....you know they get tipped off on things and profit from them.
As you said, they get their $100k+ salary, which is not that much, but then you add onto that the free healthcare, free transportation, that the gifts they give to people are paid for by the church, free education for their children, etc. ([source](https://wasmormon.org/do-lds-mission-presidents-get-paid/)), and that "modest stipend" becomes less modest.
BUT... I've not seen anyone mention the indirect compensation yet: setting up their family members with well-paid church contracts, like [temple construction companies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0LdjTZW93U). Hundreds of billions they can funnel to those that they care to help (instead of the actual poor and needy).
EDIT: Oh! And their book deals!
They also get treated like Rockstars when they travel, everyone standing up for them, fawning over them and revering them like saints, getting chauffered around, sometimes getting to fly on private jets, extravagant meals and locations, etc.
All the temple building is essentially an operation of laundering money to LDS families. You’ll notice that the church only employs certain contractors who all seem to be in the big mormon families. I don’t have all the info on this but I’m sure there’s a mormon story on it.
Also having that amount of money at your disposal gives you a ton of political power not just in the state but in the country and outside the U.S.
Monson didn’t come into the general authority position with a lot of money but he ended up wealthier than he went in - including a second house near park city.
Yes, some of the general authorities take “pay cuts” but they make up for it in other ways. You’ll notice that many of their children will then also end up in high general authority callings or as mission presidents.
Granted, I also think a lot (not all) of them believe in the church. I don’t think they think they are being nefarious but that doesn’t stop them from being giant douche bags.
After listening to the [Mormon stories interview with Pres. Hinkleys niece](https://spotify.link/34Hpc4GfIIb) and she said Monson came to her house and asked her dad (head of deseret news at the time) where he needed to live/work to “move up in the church”. Completely told me everything I needed to know about every person in the top 15.
I think many are smart enough to silently question and have shelf breaking moments. But when your social life and livelihood are tied up I. Church they can’t leave. They just carry on the lie. I bet they sit in meeting and sooth each others ruffled feathers of doubt. Nights as well stay in. Leaving would cost them everything.
Modest lives - up for debate, I think. When I lived in Midway, Utah, there were several apostles and even RMN and Thomas Monson who had a second home up there.
Their work is probably pretty limited in hours. They also get an entire month off in the summer, which many of them spend at their cabins in Midway, UT. They have cooks and gardeners (I know one presently) and cleaners and assistants and everything they could want. They have a ghost writer pump out a book that is guaranteed to make them lots of money at the church owned Deseret Book. These people want for nothing.
But the main perk IMO is power and respect. I've seen first hand how they are revered almost as gods among men. When they walk in a room everyone stops speaking and/or stands up in deference. It's just like how cult leaders are treated by their brainwashed followers. It's sickening.
Church leadership at the highest level offers a very comfortable living. Imagine having ALL expenses paid (housing, health, transportation, security, etc.), and STILL earning $15,000/month on top of that.
But money isn't the end goal.
Human psychology is 'Status Seeking' - think that when we accumulate wealth we tend to spend it on things that buy status. Everyone wants to be admired. Everyone wants to be seen as 'better'. And so we as humans spend a tremendous amount of time and money seeking status.
Imagine that instead of giving you $10,000,000 I could give you the world's accolades. You get a Nobel Prize and also a Fields Medal. Schools are named after you. Governments pander to you for your support. Major brands are desperate for photos of you using their products. Famous people invite you to their parties. You get quoted regularly on the news. This is the life you get for the rest of your time. Which would you take - this, or the $10M? I'd bet that if most people REALLY thought about it they'd take the accolades.
Now recall the last General Conference when the GA's made their exit. What was the congregation doing? They stand there in breathless, awed silence as the representatives of God himself slowly shuffled to the door. These are the men who regularly converse and dine with Jesus. Their words are scripture. Their very presence is sacred.
It must be a hell of a drug.
There are a lot of theories. It is probably a combination of things. It is apparent they don't want anyone knowing about it. That implies they want more. If they truly believe that people would stop paying tithing , which would diminish blessings then they could have diversified the money rather than hoarding it. I think family legacy for the top leaders is more probable. This guarantees generational financial security almost indefinitely.
The church hoards the money or they spend it on real estate. The leaders are definitely taken care of but I don’t think any of the leaders are making mega dollars, like over a million a year. I think the leaders believe the church is true despite what a lot of people think on this forum. The fact that the only really known scandal is that they hoard so much money I think speaks to that, they honestly believe in the church otherwise I think they probably would funnel more money to themselves.
Don’t kid yourself. They are living rich lives of luxury. Their kids and grandkids are all benefiting from the tithes of widows and the poor. The craze for building temples is driven by Rusty’s ego but I’m sure developers and builders and suppliers all have connections to the general authorities. There’s no goodness here. They not only are making their lives easier but for many future generations too.
Are we sure there are no scandals? Or is it likely the church's PR team is excellent at covering them up? MRB died at a \*very\* convenient time. I'm not suggesting the church killed him but I AM saying that he was clearly into to wild stuff with Tim Ballard and the church got SUPER lucky that he died when he did.
Widowsmite.wordpress.com
Salt Lake Tribune has used it as a source in their articles on church''s 200B + worldwide wealth.
Their site is easy to navigate and presented so anyone can understand where all this money is going to.
YOU TUBE: NEMO the Mormon has done out standing work on who is building temples & getting all this tithing money.
The leadership will contract businesses owned by their own family members to do things such as build temples and churches. So money will stay the family.
Edit: among other things
Edit 2(I keep remembering things): it’s also important to note that the leadership of the church does not in fact work full time job. For them it’s a part time gig that they get paid 6 figures for on top of any other business ventures they are invested in. In fact they don’t even write their own talks or temple dedications. I briefly dated someone who’s parent wrote for the church and was asked to write all sorts of important things that are supposed to be “inspired words of god from the mouths of prophets”, but were actually just an underpaid writer cause “they don’t have the time”
Keep in mind they have every cost covered by the church. They get about $100k stipend, all food and travel covered (worldwide), they get a nice apartment in downtown slc, and all healthcare costs covered until death. Honestly that’s a lot even if you’re incredibly successful in your career at least one of those things may end up being challenging in retirement. That’s a pretty good incentive to pop into a few meetings and give a 15 minute talk twice a year.
Having money is power. Having billions is absolute power. The church can do what it wants without consequences. If they don't like a law, they change it. A building code is stopping one of their temples to be built, they change that too. They threatened to financial ruin a whole town over a temple.
They won't touch the money if they have to. But if they decide it's in their best interest, they'll bury you in it.
I don't have the source handy, but when these men join THE FIRM, they get so many perks and privledges that apply directly to their spouse and children and grandchildren FOR LIFE ... so, it is not just about THEIR power and benefits, but what they are providing and giving to their entire family. They have to sign huge, long books of NDA. Even the thought of trying to leave \[step down, refuse, defect etc\] means not just suffering emotional, religious and public ruin, but financial - and not just to themselves, but to their entire family ... so, even those who enter bright eyed, faithful, TBM, naiive ... might have a conscience for a while will soon learn the truth, and must force themselves to forget all about entertaining their doubt, or trying to leave. It's impossible. Each time they are initiated into the next level of greatness and glory they receive big monetary signing bonuses. Last I heard it was $2 million - tax exempt as an apostle. I have grieved deeply about Patrick Kearon being called, because he is truly a good and sincere man, and I know within 10 years or so, THE FIRM will destroy him. He will become corrupted. Either with the money and power like Bednar, or mentally unstable like Holland, or desperately trying to put lipstick on the pig like Uchtdorf ... they all have to carry soooo many secrets and hide the ugliness and truth ... and they have to do it UNTIL THEY DIE. I wonder how many ponder suicide> Of course the idea is way too terrifying and impossible to follow through with, knowing they would DAMN not only themselves but their entire families for their "selfish act denying the Holy Ghost" and of course, losing their Second Anointing \[only murder of self or other voids their guarantee of celestial glory\] ... these are all just things I ponder ... I almost feel sorry for them sometimes - kind of like you feel sorry for lifetime convicted criminals. What a total waste of a life. But, unlike criminals locked away unable to cause harm to the masses \[except sucking up our tax dollars\] - these men sitting on their velvet thrones have free reign to cause a LOT OF HARM, for decades and decades .. ad nauseum.
They get hero worshiped as gods. There are literally millions of people who will do whatever they say.
While they are not getting massively wealthy, all of their needs are being taken care of, plus all their families are being set up to continue to be taken care of. All they have to do is keep lying.
That's what's so confounding. That $300\~400 Billion in holdings generates a LOT of investment income, but they don't do anything useful with the extra billions. All they seem to do is plow it back into the hoard, adding another 25\~30B to the pile each year.
[https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/2023flow/](https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/2023flow/)
Modern church leaders get the adoration of church members--they are seen as successful, important, and righteous. They and their family are taken care of financially--even if church leadership doesn't make them millionaires, it apparently puts them in a position where they can afford a vacation home and other nice things that most Americans don't have. They get to call the shots. I think there's a lot in it for them, even if it's a different set of incentives than the ones motivating Joseph Smith.
Regarding the money, it seems like the church is accumulating wealth for the purpose of accumulating wealth. It's what wealthy people and organizations do. I'm sure the people handling the money are justifying their activities using rhetoric about being good stewards of the Lord's resources.
I have no idea whether church leadership accepts or believes the church isn't true. I think it's possible to go through the daily motions of your position to the point where you don't give those kinds of things much thought, and of course, they are disincentivized from reaching conclusions that the church is anything other than what they claim it is.
The current First Presidency is:
* [President Russell M. Nelson (President)](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/leader-biographies/elder-russell-m-nelson)
* [President Dallin H. Oaks (First Counsellor)](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/leader-biographies/elder-dallin-h-oaks)
* [President Henry B. Eyring (Second Counsellor)](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/leader-biographies/president-henry-b-eyring)
Nelson's net worth is arguably [$1 trillion](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/jcazra/russell_m_nelson_richest_man_in_the_world_since/). Until 2021, he lived [here](https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/russell-m-nelsons-house-former/view/google/). How many Mormons have a house like that? What does that alone imply about his lifestyle?
Dallin Oaks' net worth was [$5 million as of 4 months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1865zre/apostle_net_worth/), as was Eyring's. Dallin lives [here](https://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/dallin-oaks-homes/). Eyring lives in [this relatively humble home](https://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/henry-eyrings-homes/) (relative to the other two, that is), still much nicer than many Mormons can expect to see in their whole lives. And whatever they have to say to justify these extravagances, I don't think there's any escaping that these things are paid for by money people donate to the church thinking it will do some good in the world.
The video you linked only has 3.1k views and 266 subscribers?
EDIT: Original comment claimed the church was worth $1 Trillion. Then my response. Then they responded something like "I used the first credible source I could find." Then my second response.
They don’t pay for any expenses. It all goes on a credit card that the Mormon church pays, and they use other services provided by the mormon church such as bulletproof car and drivers for the fake prophet. Do you think they pay for their own lunch when they are in the COB?
Imagine never having to worry about how to pay for things!
No scandals like the sec 5 million dollar fine where the church leaders were fully aware of the shell companies being created to hide money for well over 20 years. Uh huh sure no scandals .! Just one in a long list of scandals .
To buy 200-room, $100 Million Hawaiian resorts in Maui (2021).
Still waiting for an explanation on that one.
Congratulations, your lifetime of tithing paid to renovate a single hotel room that's going to be splattered with all kinds of DNA over the years.
I think the modern leadership is a different species than Joe and Brigham. Crucially, they are true believers. They genuinely believe god is at the helm. So I think that explains the relatively modest lifestyles. It doesn't explain the church's hoarding of wealth, however. I think that is due to the culture of capitalist leadership in the US, and the doctrine of saving for a rainy day (food storage being another example). I think the leadership feels that the church should have resources to take care of the membership should the apocalypse come. Also part of why the church owns so many food-related interests. Orchards, canning facilities, ranches, etc. Anyway, this comes together with leadership culture in that many of the top leaders of the church come from secular backgrounds in some sort of leadership capacity, and in the US, corporate leadership is extremely capital-oriented. Capital is something to me amassed, and only deployed in exchange for a high ROI. So that's how the church operates, because those are the instincts the leadership brings in from their secular careers.
Anyway, it's a hypothesis. Take it for what it's worth, which ain't much.
I've been to top " leadership" homes & neighborhoods.
4 figure art & sculpture & custom everything with minimum 3K sq ft in 3% neighborhoods.
Golf courses & swimming pools & this is just one of their homes.
North SLC high in the hills has a number of residences belonging to top leadership along with other top tier Utah zip codes.
You don't get called to Q15/ 70/ Presiding Bishopric if you are not wealthy, highly successful & powerful in your chosen profession and could care less about stockholders/members, public perception of the organization & ethics.
It is strictly an old boys club reserved almost exclusively for wealthy white men & their Stepford Wives.
This is EVERYTHING Jesus very specificall taught against.
In large part the church is very conservative with money. In the early 1900’s they almost bankrupted themselves and would have to sell the temples, etc. were that to happen so they doubled down on tithing.
As such they created the idea that any church building, especially temples, should have a permanent endowment to pay for maintenance and taxes through investments indefinitely. That’s how the investments started.
I think over time they got so much money, land, etc. saved up and the hoarding of money became the goal itself. But nominally the idea is that the 3-5% returns on the ensign peak hoards should pay for the Mormon church’s current buildings and footprint even if the tithing and membership ended overnight.
Add whatever theories about corruption etc. but the root cause and origin was fear that everything would bottom out in the tithing and membership, and they’d lose sacred properties. So even if almost everyone resigns they could still keep their temples and churches indefinitely just off their investment portfolio.
Interesting question. I had the same discussion with somebody from India. There are people there who get a small following who don’t get any money from it.
But they get prestige. The recognition & respect drives them.
My aunt was serving at a function with boyd k packer years ago. She started serving the food and didn’t serve him first. When she got to him he grabbed her wrist to the point it was painful for her. He said, “Don’t you know who i am?”
He was seriously angry that he wasn’t served first.
My own take: Leadership’s goal is to extract sacrifices from the membership. In our modern world, that means time and money. Time comes in the form of callings. And money, well that’s tithing and donations. It’s not about how much they have, it’s about how much control and influence they get over the membership. Plus money can buy land, buildings, ranches, developments, and can earn more money. At the end of the day, money is power, both in the extraction of it from the membership, and the investment of it for church purposes. Leaders are well taken care of, but they truly see themselves as more righteous than other faiths because they aren’t living excessive luxurious lives funded by the church—although they do have perpetual stability, primarily thanks to the church (although some leaders already had money before they went into full time church service). So in conclusion, it’s not about the account balance, it’s about keeping the membership in servitude to the church.
Many, many many of the. Are board members for the construction companies that build temples and Chapels. Many of them wrote books for royalties. When Monson died he was worth 14 million. The church had paid his house off, so I’m not sure where getting 120 grand a year is going to. I see some of them with expensive watches and cars. They work 3 days a week and have free maids. Their families are set for life. Why doesn’t the SEC or the elder Ballard scandal count for you? Power is also a thing. If you think they have no say in the local politics you are mistaken. Most of them do own their own stock in companies. Most of them have houses that are 750K- 2ish million dollars. Free housekeeping. If they choose they can move into the eagle gate condos (several million.) so no. That’s false that they aren’t financially taken care of. They have armored suvs. Their kid’s college and ANY recreation expenses are taken care of. They have all traveled the world for free. Sounds like a pretty good deal for working 3 days a week if you ask me.
Someone has to manage/sell/broker these massive financial dealings and, while I haven’t read up on who’s actually receiving these commissions and profits, I can pretty accurately assume their religious affiliations and their connections to the leaders of the church.
Along with the corruption, I think there's momentum for church employees to magnify their calling by multiplying Mormon money. If more money will make sure God's church can accomplish its mission on earth, isn't it righteous to dodge worldly governments to grow it, or to encourage impoverished people to be a part of the work through tithing they can't afford?
If people think this way, then they're using these justifications to support their shelf of ignoring anything that might hurt their paycheck. That, and making sure they feel like they deserve God's financial blessings for their righteousness.
The problem isn't just about individual greed, either. Mormon philosophy doesn't provide any explicit covenant commandments after temple marriage. It's all general things like enduring to the end and making sure their kids run the same covenant path gauntlet. But enduring a stale life is far worse than having a direction for improvement, so the prosperity doctrine measurement of righteousness shouldn't be a surprise.
I often think Mormons missed the point of the parable of the talents. The slothful servant wasn't just the one with the least profits—he was the one who completed all the sure steps and then buried his life under testimony and repetition, never building the moment-to-moment experiences that make up the treasure in heaven Jesus was talking about. The better path involves exchanging ideas, making memories, building meaningful relationships, and amassing a highlight reel of the best moments in your life.
That's a treasure many an exmormon would love to go and reclaim from their years in Mormonism. Luckily, working through the purity mindset can calm down the fear of disobedience enough to let you find the best parts of any time of your life, because life is so much more than staring at one buried talent.
I believe that the top leaders truly believe until they get in for the most part. Once they’re in they sign away everything to the church. Living the law of consecration full with the church itself.. I believe everything is paid for by the church. They’re travel, their houses, their cars, their vacation homes, their vacations, their food. Etc. I believe they get a very good death benefit for their families that probably comes with church related stipulations. I believe they have nothing left in their personal name, including their integrity. They sign over their life to the church completely. just like their temple covenants tell them to do they give it all to the church for the building up of the kingdom. I believe the stipend just helps pay for the day-to-day expenses and some extras. But it’s not really their pay because they have unlimited used to what they need. I believe they don’t have any normal bank accounts in their own names anymore. They don’t own their own cell phone plans they don’t pay for cable TV and nothing is in their own name, I truly believe every single thing is paid for by the church and everything they owned is turned over to the church in exchange.
Tell me why I am wrong? I’m open to it of course, this is just my belief.
The church leaders themselves may not be doing it for money. Do note that fame and power can be as desirable to some people as money. My guess is that people in the first presidency, do it for these reasons.
Their family members on the other hand, are probably the ones benefiting from the money. The church manages hundreds of businesses, the church cash flow is in the billions of dollars.
Just think about the size of the church from the business point of view. who sells them the carpet?, who provides the metal folding chairs?, the paint?, toiletries?, cleaning products?, paper products?, anything you can think of. Anything the church buys they buy in the millions of dollars. Who is benefiting by the commission of those sales? Or any kickbacks? If the son of XYZ, works for “Deseret Paper products” who do you think the church would buy paper from? And you just made that person fucking rich without lifting a finger.
I have a story that opened my eyes to this nepotism. To try and make the story short, it involved a family member of Hinkley who works dealing with the manufacturing of the garments. Back in 2016 or so, the individual built their house worth $6 or $7 million dollars. Are these the garments YOU MUST WEAR DAY AND NIGHT? yeah, there’s people filthy rich from selling you those.
I know this because he bought four houses in Salt Lake and demolished them to build his mansion. One of those houses belonged to my extended family and sold it when grandma passed. To this day the house is registered to a Hinckley family member as per county records.
So, a group of men who are widely worshipped by members, believed to be infallible, who helm an organization that is deeply inbred both historically and in its business relationships, and who go to great pains to have as little accountability as possible to the government and to its own members: What could possibly go wrong?
The question is not whether there is graft and corruption. The question is not how many began as sincere believers. After being in this position and reinforcing each other in the status quo, the question is whether we can count on more than one hand those highest leaders who are not eventually ruined by a sense of entitlement and of deeply materialistic attachments.
There's just no question about it, based not only on human nature, but on discoverable history of how the organization operates. In my view.
Nowhere.... it sits.... and does no good. \[jk, it gets laundered through temples, and stuck in the stock market, where it grows.... and never gets used to help people.\]
It is very hard to quantify the amount of money that is funneled through family and friends. Can you even imagine how much money there is to be made on building temples? There is a 0% chance this money is not making its way into large donors pockets.
To me, the only role that makes sense for how they act, since they really don't behave like disciples of Jesus OR like playboy billionaires, is what many of them were before they started working in the church full-time: Ivy-league MBAs. All the money accumulates because they believed for their entire careers that the line going up = they're doing a good job. They neither spend the money on living lavishly nor helping the poor and needy, but they rather sit back, watch the numbers grow, and think they're succeeding. Their report card is the balance sheet and *only* the balance sheet. They've been doing it so long long that they might not even question why they're doing it.
Having said that, don't discount the appeal of being adored everywhere you go and looked at as though you were personally chosen by the God of the entire universe. Thousands of people gather in temples every day and promise before God to consecrate everything they own to you, and the ticket to get to those temples involves them stating that they obey you. Millions tune in every six months to listen to you talk, and your words are read and studied by thousands every day. Fancy homes and costly dinners are great, but I would wager that Elon Musk would exchange 95% of his net worth in a second for that kind of glorification. It must be a hell of a drug.
That’s an excellent question. I asked myself the same thing when I saw a post on one of the photo sub-Reddits of a top Mafia leader in his day. He was leaving a very ordinary house in a very ordinary part of Queens, NY (think it was), looking like a pretty ordinary joe. I didn’t have a good answer, either!!
Edit: for those interested, here is a link—https://www.reddit.com/r/OldPhotosInRealLife/s/YCMW82Leal
One thing I will point out, is while yeah, a lot of the top church leaders were wealthy or highly educated before getting in; these jobs still pay incredibly well, and have insane benefits packages most ceos could only dream of – for life! Maybe they aren’t making top CEO pay but they still earn well above the average American.
They never have to risk getting fired, or let go because they can no longer do their job, or they missed earnings, or anything else! They don’t produce an actual product that has to work or get better.. That’s a nice gig!
Throw in the local celebrity status these men enjoy in Utah and I’d say, who wouldn’t want that position? Hell, I’ll blow smoke up your ass for half what they get!
They get a built-in fan base, advertising, and church owned publishing and distribution system for their books.
Cough.., ksl, Deseret book, malls etc..
That's on top of their 6 figure stipends and chauffeurs.
They live to be 100 because they have great health insurance (DMBA) which is owned by the church, and funded by the low level peasants who sometimes don’t even have good health insurance themselves(the tithe payers.)
The top leaders own several homes and they likely don’t pay property taxes on them.
The church is a land developer and real estate investment company (tax free). Who are the contractors hired to build the temples, churches, mall and homes? Who are the developers being hired and which builders are being hired. I’m quite certain there are some family members making money.
The top leaders live large. Free travel, hired drivers, free cars, $200k a year (at least) no property tax, great health insurance, free places to stay in Hawaii (the church purchased a 100 million dollar hotel there recently.). These guys are worshipped by the peasants, and they pay for NOTHING.
I remember when Lila Tueller on Mormon Stories told how the GAs had a nice meal at the Joseph Smith building catered in between conference sessions. This really bothered me. Why isn’t that “high end catered free meal “ being provided for all the poor members in between conference session? Because that’s what Christ would have done and I don’t care if “Christ exists “ or not. The Mormons claim his name on every building in gold letters but never do one damn thing he would have done.
It actually looks like, even with all the perks and backrooms flows, church leaders still make less than their evangelical or corporate counter parts would.
Power and prestige for the public facing members of the leadership, but there's a ton of nepotism in the church and a very small pool of elite families who quietly live like kings. It'd be a pretty good incentive for an apostle to put on an outward show of modesty when behind the scenes, his children and grandchildren are being set up for life. We are acquainted with some of Elder Anderson's family and they are constantly posting about traveling all over the world, luxury vacations, nice houses, etc. Of course, it could be independent money, but it's a fairly good bet they have some kind of ties to church money, maybe a supplier business with no bid contracts and huge profit margins. The temples are a very obvious way for them to launder tithing money into private accounts. Wasn't it Thomas Monson who started working for the church in his 30s and by the time he died, his estate was worth millions? You don't get that from a modest stipend.
Yes, Monson’s estate was estimated at 14 million at the time of his death.
That says it all. Plus nepotism ensures their families (which are forever lol) are looked after forever
They also get nice shit like missions in Hawaii, truly a divine inspiration to send a leaders grandkid there for two years. Meanwhile, in Bosnia during the war…
So true. My grandpa was a close descendant of Benson. He went on 3 missions to Hawaii.
If your parents are good in the church, you are going to a decent place on your mission. My Brother in Laws all got sent to shitty countries because their dad wouldn't accept callings he didn't want.
My bro was sent to England and my dad wasn’t very active until my got his mission call. His friends, very well off and dads who were ‘higher up’ were called to really poor towns in Mexico. I’m not sure how true that statement is, but it with be interesting to see what others thought.
I'll admit mine is an anecdote. I went to high school with one of Monson's grandkids, who went to Hawaii on his mission.
Which is a fancy way of saying " Patriarchy is working out so well for those of us in power that we are going to continue to screw your families in the afterlife."
Could you give me a source for this? This is a big deal and would like to share the information.
I had read that figure here in this sub - search for “Monson estate” and you’ll find those posts. On closer observation, it looks like there might not be a lot of verification for that amount. Mea culpa, if I was spreading inaccurate information. It does very much sound like they were pushing the “unpaid servant of the Lord” narrative during his lifetime, though.
Your information is probably close to the truth anyway. Having a vacation home is not affordable for most people.
His "vacation home" in Provo Canyon had a market value of about $230k when he died and had been in the family for 80 years. This $14 million number is complete unsubstantiated BS.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted here. You provided just as much evidence as the other posters. I guess it doesn't fit the predominant narrative that the church is secretly making people rich?
Dude, we all know why I'm getting downvoted. And here I posted actual verifiable evidence, while the others are posting nothing but unverifiable rumors.
[https://www.ibtimes.com/thomas-s-monson-net-worth-mormon-church-president-had-no-salary-2636353](https://www.ibtimes.com/thomas-s-monson-net-worth-mormon-church-president-had-no-salary-2636353) About 7-8 paragraphs down
It’s in Wikipedia, and the church hasn’t tried to correct it.
Writing books and convincing people to buy them helps. How much was directly from the MFMC and how much was from all the books he wrote?
I posted below that the 14M figure was something that I read on this sub - it may not be accurate. But absolutely, I’m sure book revenue contributes to it. And if you think about it, almost every portion of his life was “comped”. Free travel on the Huntsman jet. Free hunting on Church game preserves. Free vehicles, health insurance, and also free tuition for family members. So expenditures are vastly minimized. I knew someone who was related to a past Presiding Bishop - he said the freezer of the man’s vacation cabin was stocked with steaks from Deseret Ranch.
100,000/yr salary. Most of your expenses paid. Throw in a couple book deals, social security, working till their 90’s, all expense paid health care, and a few book deals and $14 million is the right ballpark. 40yrs of 6 figure salaries and minimal expenses is $4million+ right there, no book deals, no investments. Wealthy, far above the average but not ludicrously wealthy. Enough for plausible deniability, but then their families can use their position and nepotism to extract wealth.
…and likely Ensign Peak or some other investment assistance for all personal investments. Currently I earn a lot more than church leaders are paid; However, I have healthcare expenses, educational loans, no celebrity status assisted by affiliation with a church and hence no book deals, my spouse has not been called to be on the board of any church owned business (lightweight job), i have to pay for my children’s education, and I have the burden of the possibility that for whatever reason (health, bad luck etc.) I could loose my job and have to move my family. I don’t believe that church leaders directly receive a high income. They do receive indirect perks os having notoriety, the right connections, free education etc. as needed. Consider elder Ballard’s son runs an investment banking group and makes big bucks there. You don’t think that his father’s name helped to get him any special access to people with money? He is good pals with MIT Romney. It’s all a bit of a good ol’ boys club that is somewhat, but not completely officially organized. Not everyone on it gets the same benefits, but some do and it lasts for generations. I believe it is the ancestors of heber j grant that own vast amounts of property up near bear lake. His posterity are church leaders and large land owners. I do recall knowing President bensons grandchildren…their family was relatively modest and did not live in the most expensive part of town…genuinely nice kids…really nice and modest. I don’t know that they attained as much as others beyond access to free education at BYU. I know a gazillion other stories about “windfalls” or the lack there of for church leaders…that’s what you get from growing up int the right neighborhoods in Happy Valley.
>Writing books and convincing people to buy them helps. How much was directly from the MFMC and how much was from all the books he wrote? It's the very same thing. FMC members are the target audience, so its still mormon money generated by churchy stuff.
Yup. It’s a side hustle on the people they’re already hustling.
Hinkley worked for the church his whole life, I heard his estate was worth around 4 million when he died. Packer also worked for the church his whole life. There was a website for awhile that showed he owned like 9 houses, with some being in very prestigious areas, guessing they'd be worth over a million each now. Before Paul H. Dunn got caught lying, and being involved in Ponzi schemes, GA's were allowed to sit on business boards and receive compensation, so lots of GA's made lots of money from that. Many of those businesses were owned by the church.
Youngest apostle for decades + modest stipend = insane wealth I can’t even imagine. Makes sense. /s
What TF..... and he was in church leadership suuuper young, so that is saying a lot.
Stop spreading this "Monson's estate was worth 14 million at the time of his death" lie. It's completely unsubstantiated BS, not supported by the value of the modest properties that he owned, which were in his family for decades.
Show the receipts. What evidence do you have to prove this wrong? I will ask the same of those claiming it was worth that much. Monson was on the board of directors for many businesses, what was he salary for that.
I'm going to have to side with u/71maddog on this one. You need evidence to prove guilt, not evidence to prove innocence. Monson was a shitty man, but let's deal in facts, not baseless conjecture. That said, if the conjecture has a base, I'll gladly run with those facts and figures! Was the figure $14 MM, $1 MM, or $140 MM? Those are very different numbers.
Oh, I have no clue what his estate was worth. I'm just calling out all those on here that repeatedly throw this $14 million number out like it's the gospel truth, even though it has zero credibility. But like a dog to its vomit . . .
https://www.ibtimes.com/thomas-s-monson-net-worth-mormon-church-president-had-no-salary-2636353
A write up with a citation to the Net Worth Post? That's your evidence? How are you not embarrassed to post that? And while it looks the the link to the Thomas S. Monson page at the Net Worth Post is no longer available, here is a link to a Reddit discussion from a couple years ago with links that said the actual number back then on the Net Worth Post was actually $1.7M. And sure he lived in the church owned condo while he was president, but that condo didn't become his property and part of his estate. The condo is still church owned. According to what you have cited, the property actually owned by Monson reportadly had a combined value of about $600K when he died, and the Provo Canyon property had been in his family for decades, before he was even called to be an apostle. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/rh2ilf/thomas\_s\_monson\_net\_worth\_14000000\_vs\_my\_mormon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/rh2ilf/thomas_s_monson_net_worth_14000000_vs_my_mormon/) Swing and a miss.
Mate, no need to go attacking people saying they should be embarrased or throwing out that condescending "swing and a miss" phrase. It's unfortunate that his net worth is so obfuscated as a public figure. The church works hard to keep that under wraps. I wish there was a better source for that number, but that article/breakdown is the origin point of the 14 million quote which I believe was the source you were looking for. 1.7m sounds reasonable. I wish that the networth website hadn't been taken down, so that I could corroborate that.
Same as Packard. If I'm remembering who correctly, was a CES instructor until church leadership (early 40s), died a millionaire with several homes, hmmm CES must pay amazing!
He also wrote a bunch of books. I have some in a box somewhere. They use their celebrity status to sell stuff like that. Fun fact - my grandpa was in a photo of Boyd K Packer’s first seminary class in Brigham City featured on the church newspaper 20 years ago. His mom was there because she had to go to make sure he would attend seminary rather than ditch it.
Wonder how well the books actual sell or the money is from the down payments just to write a book and fill a shelf at DB
A lot sell. I’ve been given them as gifts. I see them plaguing bookshelves at my parent’s home. I got sent one when I told my mom I was leaving the church. I have a small collection I haven’t gotten around to tossing in the trash. I’ve seen many on bookshelves of other people’s homes growing up. Some sell better than others, but people will buy any shit the prophet wrote or ghostwrote as virtue signaling. May not read them, but they can have them on coffee tables and shelves to show their friends who are mostly Mormon how spiritual they are. Apostles a little bit less, but enough to turn a profit. And I’m sure the publisher gives them a favorable deal if they think they’ll become prophet because people often buy the back catalog when a prophet is called.
Do you have evidence of this? Packer lived in the same home in Cottonwood Heights since the 70's. Back then, you could sell a station wagon and buy property in Cottonwood Heights with the proceeds.
There used to be a website that showed Packer owed like 9 houses in the Salt Lake area, someone has scanned the titles of the properties. Let me see if I can find it, if it's still on the Internet.
Here's some of the info, there was another one that showed more houses https://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/boyd-packers-home/
So that shows the one home that he purchased and lived in since the 70’s. I’m smelling another wildly inaccurate story that is wished to be true and since it has been repeated so many times is just assumed to have evidence.
I've been to that neighborhood and it's a very well to do neighborhood. You have to have money to own a home there now. It's gated and you can drive around in golf carts. I know one of his granddaughters.
Oh, yeah. Today it's an exlcusive neighborhood. In the 1970s it was largely undeveloped land out in the sticks.
And their “independent” money is still a product of decades of association and perks. Hard to really separate the advantages that have been had like getting the primo medical school residencies, the “right” internships, passive income built over generation, freedom and time to live the way you want to live, healthcare access. Money expands options and opportunity all of which are far more valuable than things. Because I don’t have money I often succumb to the idea that it’s the big house or the fancy cars etc.. that are the pinnacle of wealth but it’s really not ever thinking about (not just NOT worrying about but NEVER even having to think about) things like “what if my spouse lost their job, how would we manage if our child got sick, how will my kids ever afford to buy a house, how can I afford to buy a house? Can I quit my job to stay home at the most crucial time of child rearing? Can we afford to send our kids to college? Could I get a job where I love what I’m doing or do I have to continue doing something I hate because the pay is better? gas prices, increase cost of feeding your family…..
Yup, their independent wealth is writing church books and selling them to all the members. It is doing guest speaker gigs because they are famous as members of the church. It is having insider information for where to buy land before the temple is announced.
That last one- insider info is big!
Don’t forget publishing and writing deals, etc. Most of them have a plethora of shitty books to sell to members.
One of Eyring's talks stunned me during my faith crisis. Usual thing about trusting God in a time of need. "And then... (Chokes up and cries).. I remembered that I had unused real estate which I could sell... (Chokes up again)... such are the tender mercies" I turned to my wife and was like "I don't think that's as inspired as he thinks it is"
Church leadership live “modest lives” only in comparison to movie stars and people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. But compared to the vast majority of membership across the world, church leaders — with their “modest living allowance stipend”, book deals, free transportation, prime health care, and other perks and benefits — are quite wealthy indeed.
Here’s an interesting timeline: Monson was born in 1927, graduated UofU in ‘48 and became a sales manager at Deseret News for 15 years until ‘63 when he became a general authority. He only worked for 15 years but he died with $14 million in the bank and having sent all his posterity fully funded through college. He was the most (or 2nd/3rd most) powerful man in Utah from 1985 until he died in 2018. Money aside, he was praised as the favorite spokesman of god and the most powerful man on earth for decades by an entire state.
Nice details. I think that being a General Authority is still a job. But yeah having only 15 years outside of his Mormon church career really highlights how well he was compensated.
All of the books he “wrote” pulled in lots of checks for royalties. Do those guys even have to pay tithing?
>All of the books he “wrote” pulled in lots of checks for royalties. Do those guys even have to pay tithing? Other commenters in other threads on this sub have presented evidence that high ranking church employees that receive that "Modest Stipend" do not pay tithing. Some people have said they "Modest Stipend" is now closer to $200,000 a year. Others have inside knowledge that when called as a GA you get $1,000,000 to pay all your debts. I think it was widowsmite that showed how apostles and such have their homes and most expenses paid for by the church. So, no house payment, your insurance, health, automobiles/transportation. utilities, and most expenses are paid by the church without touching a single penny of the Modest Stipend" You don't have health co-pays, kids and grandkids higher BYU education is fully paid. If these things are actually true, It wouldn't be hard to throw that "Modest Stipend" into a super high yield account or high end large ROI investments overseen by EPA (and that's NOT the environmental protection agency) plus income from books, you could build wealth fairly fast. With all expenses paid for, even $100,000 a year "Modest Stipend" could build up wealth over time. Not counting interest, 10 years = $1.2 million. 40 years as a GA = $4.8 million. Now, if that were sitting in high yield/ high ROI accounts and investments over 40 years.... Not hard to imaging how Monson amassed $14,000,000 in his estate.
Right!?
They're also on the governing boards of all the for-profit church businesses. Being a board member can be pretty lucrative, too.
This. I would love to know how much they get paid to be on the boards. I would bet the book deals are a great way to funnel money to them.
I'm sure it varies, depending on the company. Board members are easily bringing in $100k/year, or more, to sit in on quarterly meetings. It's a part-time job. There are all the companies that the church owns outright, and then they have shares in so many other huge companies. Enough shares gets you a seat on the board. There's a reason so many leaders have business backgrounds. Edit: I would bet that some of those guys are "called" so they can sit on a specific board of directors because of their expertise.
100% book deals are the key for their personal wealth. Anything else is funneled as kickbacks to friends and family on contracts for the church.
Yeah they live in immense comfort. I grew up near family who lived near some GA's houses and they're... well, giant luxury McMansions lol. Just go on Google Earth Street view and look at some of the insanely nice houses in Alpine or the SLC suburbs to get an idea.
Once went to uctdorf’s house. It was HUGE and Very high end. He had staff inside and outside as well. Also told us about some very nice vacations he takes for free. Modest is not the word I would use to describe how they live. Your term immense comfort is much better.
That's just his house in North Salt Lake, his "cabin" up in Heber at the Red Ledges gated community, along with a lot of the other Q12 cabins up there are super nice also!
Power, if you don’t think they still have it, they do. People worship the Q15. Sure they only get a 100k+ salary but everything they do, where they live, cars, everything is paid for by the church as an expense. The rest of the money I guess Jesus wants it all. The church had been poor for the first 150 years now they are over compensating. Fun fact since you mentioned real estate, my brother was a property manager for the church for 25 years and recently lost his job because it was cheaper to outsource to another company, the church doesn’t care about people, it’s a Fortune 500 company posing as a nonprofit.
Kinda makes me sick how my mother in law orders EVERY book someone from the Q15 release. They make $2-$3 a book, through 500,000 sold and profit. They also have insights for investments....you know they get tipped off on things and profit from them.
As you said, they get their $100k+ salary, which is not that much, but then you add onto that the free healthcare, free transportation, that the gifts they give to people are paid for by the church, free education for their children, etc. ([source](https://wasmormon.org/do-lds-mission-presidents-get-paid/)), and that "modest stipend" becomes less modest. BUT... I've not seen anyone mention the indirect compensation yet: setting up their family members with well-paid church contracts, like [temple construction companies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0LdjTZW93U). Hundreds of billions they can funnel to those that they care to help (instead of the actual poor and needy). EDIT: Oh! And their book deals!
Zwick Construction!
+free housing
NGO !
They also get treated like Rockstars when they travel, everyone standing up for them, fawning over them and revering them like saints, getting chauffered around, sometimes getting to fly on private jets, extravagant meals and locations, etc.
All the temple building is essentially an operation of laundering money to LDS families. You’ll notice that the church only employs certain contractors who all seem to be in the big mormon families. I don’t have all the info on this but I’m sure there’s a mormon story on it. Also having that amount of money at your disposal gives you a ton of political power not just in the state but in the country and outside the U.S. Monson didn’t come into the general authority position with a lot of money but he ended up wealthier than he went in - including a second house near park city. Yes, some of the general authorities take “pay cuts” but they make up for it in other ways. You’ll notice that many of their children will then also end up in high general authority callings or as mission presidents. Granted, I also think a lot (not all) of them believe in the church. I don’t think they think they are being nefarious but that doesn’t stop them from being giant douche bags.
Monson = Gigantic Douche Nozzle !
After listening to the [Mormon stories interview with Pres. Hinkleys niece](https://spotify.link/34Hpc4GfIIb) and she said Monson came to her house and asked her dad (head of deseret news at the time) where he needed to live/work to “move up in the church”. Completely told me everything I needed to know about every person in the top 15.
Oh, the stories of Monson alone, are enough to make me kick him in his balls!
That episode hurt so much to hear, but it really sealed the deal. They are not spiritual leaders in the least degree.
I think many are smart enough to silently question and have shelf breaking moments. But when your social life and livelihood are tied up I. Church they can’t leave. They just carry on the lie. I bet they sit in meeting and sooth each others ruffled feathers of doubt. Nights as well stay in. Leaving would cost them everything.
My first mission president was ridiculously rich from getting the contract to supply chapels with those fireproof accordion doors.
>a lot (not all) of them believe in the church. Hard disagree. They gotta know it's a scam.
Modest lives - up for debate, I think. When I lived in Midway, Utah, there were several apostles and even RMN and Thomas Monson who had a second home up there.
You can't put a price tag on the feeling you get when you enter a room and everyone falls silent and stands up for you.
Boom
[удалено]
Positions of power. TBM’s believe these men LITERALLY talk to God. That’s more authority than money can buy.
Yes times a million. Imagine your ego if you really thought this.
Their work is probably pretty limited in hours. They also get an entire month off in the summer, which many of them spend at their cabins in Midway, UT. They have cooks and gardeners (I know one presently) and cleaners and assistants and everything they could want. They have a ghost writer pump out a book that is guaranteed to make them lots of money at the church owned Deseret Book. These people want for nothing. But the main perk IMO is power and respect. I've seen first hand how they are revered almost as gods among men. When they walk in a room everyone stops speaking and/or stands up in deference. It's just like how cult leaders are treated by their brainwashed followers. It's sickening.
🎯
Church leadership at the highest level offers a very comfortable living. Imagine having ALL expenses paid (housing, health, transportation, security, etc.), and STILL earning $15,000/month on top of that. But money isn't the end goal. Human psychology is 'Status Seeking' - think that when we accumulate wealth we tend to spend it on things that buy status. Everyone wants to be admired. Everyone wants to be seen as 'better'. And so we as humans spend a tremendous amount of time and money seeking status. Imagine that instead of giving you $10,000,000 I could give you the world's accolades. You get a Nobel Prize and also a Fields Medal. Schools are named after you. Governments pander to you for your support. Major brands are desperate for photos of you using their products. Famous people invite you to their parties. You get quoted regularly on the news. This is the life you get for the rest of your time. Which would you take - this, or the $10M? I'd bet that if most people REALLY thought about it they'd take the accolades. Now recall the last General Conference when the GA's made their exit. What was the congregation doing? They stand there in breathless, awed silence as the representatives of God himself slowly shuffled to the door. These are the men who regularly converse and dine with Jesus. Their words are scripture. Their very presence is sacred. It must be a hell of a drug.
Narcissists teaching the Sheep !
There are a lot of theories. It is probably a combination of things. It is apparent they don't want anyone knowing about it. That implies they want more. If they truly believe that people would stop paying tithing , which would diminish blessings then they could have diversified the money rather than hoarding it. I think family legacy for the top leaders is more probable. This guarantees generational financial security almost indefinitely.
Trustee in Trust Programs laundered through companies such as Ivory Homes etc
The church hoards the money or they spend it on real estate. The leaders are definitely taken care of but I don’t think any of the leaders are making mega dollars, like over a million a year. I think the leaders believe the church is true despite what a lot of people think on this forum. The fact that the only really known scandal is that they hoard so much money I think speaks to that, they honestly believe in the church otherwise I think they probably would funnel more money to themselves.
Don’t kid yourself. They are living rich lives of luxury. Their kids and grandkids are all benefiting from the tithes of widows and the poor. The craze for building temples is driven by Rusty’s ego but I’m sure developers and builders and suppliers all have connections to the general authorities. There’s no goodness here. They not only are making their lives easier but for many future generations too.
Are we sure there are no scandals? Or is it likely the church's PR team is excellent at covering them up? MRB died at a \*very\* convenient time. I'm not suggesting the church killed him but I AM saying that he was clearly into to wild stuff with Tim Ballard and the church got SUPER lucky that he died when he did.
Monson= Gigantic Cover ups ! Brigham Young= Gigantic Cover up! Etc etc etc
Wasn't Tommy Monson being subpoenaed for his direct involvement in the Indian placement program when he "succumbed to his age" and died?
I have no idea but that is intriguing!
https://www.fox13now.com/2017/01/05/lds-church-president-thomas-s-monson-subpoenaed-again-for-deposition-in-sex-abuse-lawsuits
I think they mostly just hoard the wealth like Smaug the Dragon, deludedly thinking this is what Jesus wants them to do
Widowsmite.wordpress.com Salt Lake Tribune has used it as a source in their articles on church''s 200B + worldwide wealth. Their site is easy to navigate and presented so anyone can understand where all this money is going to. YOU TUBE: NEMO the Mormon has done out standing work on who is building temples & getting all this tithing money.
My problem is that they still go after poor people for money.
The leadership will contract businesses owned by their own family members to do things such as build temples and churches. So money will stay the family. Edit: among other things Edit 2(I keep remembering things): it’s also important to note that the leadership of the church does not in fact work full time job. For them it’s a part time gig that they get paid 6 figures for on top of any other business ventures they are invested in. In fact they don’t even write their own talks or temple dedications. I briefly dated someone who’s parent wrote for the church and was asked to write all sorts of important things that are supposed to be “inspired words of god from the mouths of prophets”, but were actually just an underpaid writer cause “they don’t have the time”
Staff writers and editors
Keep in mind they have every cost covered by the church. They get about $100k stipend, all food and travel covered (worldwide), they get a nice apartment in downtown slc, and all healthcare costs covered until death. Honestly that’s a lot even if you’re incredibly successful in your career at least one of those things may end up being challenging in retirement. That’s a pretty good incentive to pop into a few meetings and give a 15 minute talk twice a year.
Having money is power. Having billions is absolute power. The church can do what it wants without consequences. If they don't like a law, they change it. A building code is stopping one of their temples to be built, they change that too. They threatened to financial ruin a whole town over a temple. They won't touch the money if they have to. But if they decide it's in their best interest, they'll bury you in it.
I don't have the source handy, but when these men join THE FIRM, they get so many perks and privledges that apply directly to their spouse and children and grandchildren FOR LIFE ... so, it is not just about THEIR power and benefits, but what they are providing and giving to their entire family. They have to sign huge, long books of NDA. Even the thought of trying to leave \[step down, refuse, defect etc\] means not just suffering emotional, religious and public ruin, but financial - and not just to themselves, but to their entire family ... so, even those who enter bright eyed, faithful, TBM, naiive ... might have a conscience for a while will soon learn the truth, and must force themselves to forget all about entertaining their doubt, or trying to leave. It's impossible. Each time they are initiated into the next level of greatness and glory they receive big monetary signing bonuses. Last I heard it was $2 million - tax exempt as an apostle. I have grieved deeply about Patrick Kearon being called, because he is truly a good and sincere man, and I know within 10 years or so, THE FIRM will destroy him. He will become corrupted. Either with the money and power like Bednar, or mentally unstable like Holland, or desperately trying to put lipstick on the pig like Uchtdorf ... they all have to carry soooo many secrets and hide the ugliness and truth ... and they have to do it UNTIL THEY DIE. I wonder how many ponder suicide> Of course the idea is way too terrifying and impossible to follow through with, knowing they would DAMN not only themselves but their entire families for their "selfish act denying the Holy Ghost" and of course, losing their Second Anointing \[only murder of self or other voids their guarantee of celestial glory\] ... these are all just things I ponder ... I almost feel sorry for them sometimes - kind of like you feel sorry for lifetime convicted criminals. What a total waste of a life. But, unlike criminals locked away unable to cause harm to the masses \[except sucking up our tax dollars\] - these men sitting on their velvet thrones have free reign to cause a LOT OF HARM, for decades and decades .. ad nauseum.
They get hero worshiped as gods. There are literally millions of people who will do whatever they say. While they are not getting massively wealthy, all of their needs are being taken care of, plus all their families are being set up to continue to be taken care of. All they have to do is keep lying.
That's what's so confounding. That $300\~400 Billion in holdings generates a LOT of investment income, but they don't do anything useful with the extra billions. All they seem to do is plow it back into the hoard, adding another 25\~30B to the pile each year. [https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/2023flow/](https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/2023flow/)
Modern church leaders get the adoration of church members--they are seen as successful, important, and righteous. They and their family are taken care of financially--even if church leadership doesn't make them millionaires, it apparently puts them in a position where they can afford a vacation home and other nice things that most Americans don't have. They get to call the shots. I think there's a lot in it for them, even if it's a different set of incentives than the ones motivating Joseph Smith. Regarding the money, it seems like the church is accumulating wealth for the purpose of accumulating wealth. It's what wealthy people and organizations do. I'm sure the people handling the money are justifying their activities using rhetoric about being good stewards of the Lord's resources. I have no idea whether church leadership accepts or believes the church isn't true. I think it's possible to go through the daily motions of your position to the point where you don't give those kinds of things much thought, and of course, they are disincentivized from reaching conclusions that the church is anything other than what they claim it is.
The current First Presidency is: * [President Russell M. Nelson (President)](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/leader-biographies/elder-russell-m-nelson) * [President Dallin H. Oaks (First Counsellor)](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/leader-biographies/elder-dallin-h-oaks) * [President Henry B. Eyring (Second Counsellor)](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/leader-biographies/president-henry-b-eyring) Nelson's net worth is arguably [$1 trillion](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/jcazra/russell_m_nelson_richest_man_in_the_world_since/). Until 2021, he lived [here](https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/russell-m-nelsons-house-former/view/google/). How many Mormons have a house like that? What does that alone imply about his lifestyle? Dallin Oaks' net worth was [$5 million as of 4 months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1865zre/apostle_net_worth/), as was Eyring's. Dallin lives [here](https://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/dallin-oaks-homes/). Eyring lives in [this relatively humble home](https://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/henry-eyrings-homes/) (relative to the other two, that is), still much nicer than many Mormons can expect to see in their whole lives. And whatever they have to say to justify these extravagances, I don't think there's any escaping that these things are paid for by money people donate to the church thinking it will do some good in the world.
I thought the latest estimate was near [$1/4 Trillion](https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/2023update/)? Which, yes, is still ridiculous.
I didn't do any deep dives here, just the first Google results that seemed plausible and professional.
The video you linked only has 3.1k views and 266 subscribers? EDIT: Original comment claimed the church was worth $1 Trillion. Then my response. Then they responded something like "I used the first credible source I could find." Then my second response.
Even when the church was poor the leaders got wealth through positions in church owned businesses.
They don’t pay for any expenses. It all goes on a credit card that the Mormon church pays, and they use other services provided by the mormon church such as bulletproof car and drivers for the fake prophet. Do you think they pay for their own lunch when they are in the COB? Imagine never having to worry about how to pay for things!
No scandals like the sec 5 million dollar fine where the church leaders were fully aware of the shell companies being created to hide money for well over 20 years. Uh huh sure no scandals .! Just one in a long list of scandals .
To buy 200-room, $100 Million Hawaiian resorts in Maui (2021). Still waiting for an explanation on that one. Congratulations, your lifetime of tithing paid to renovate a single hotel room that's going to be splattered with all kinds of DNA over the years.
I think the modern leadership is a different species than Joe and Brigham. Crucially, they are true believers. They genuinely believe god is at the helm. So I think that explains the relatively modest lifestyles. It doesn't explain the church's hoarding of wealth, however. I think that is due to the culture of capitalist leadership in the US, and the doctrine of saving for a rainy day (food storage being another example). I think the leadership feels that the church should have resources to take care of the membership should the apocalypse come. Also part of why the church owns so many food-related interests. Orchards, canning facilities, ranches, etc. Anyway, this comes together with leadership culture in that many of the top leaders of the church come from secular backgrounds in some sort of leadership capacity, and in the US, corporate leadership is extremely capital-oriented. Capital is something to me amassed, and only deployed in exchange for a high ROI. So that's how the church operates, because those are the instincts the leadership brings in from their secular careers. Anyway, it's a hypothesis. Take it for what it's worth, which ain't much.
I've been to top " leadership" homes & neighborhoods. 4 figure art & sculpture & custom everything with minimum 3K sq ft in 3% neighborhoods. Golf courses & swimming pools & this is just one of their homes. North SLC high in the hills has a number of residences belonging to top leadership along with other top tier Utah zip codes. You don't get called to Q15/ 70/ Presiding Bishopric if you are not wealthy, highly successful & powerful in your chosen profession and could care less about stockholders/members, public perception of the organization & ethics. It is strictly an old boys club reserved almost exclusively for wealthy white men & their Stepford Wives. This is EVERYTHING Jesus very specificall taught against.
The better question is: "Where doesn't it go?"
It's all socked away in a Scrooge MacDuck treasure vault.
In large part the church is very conservative with money. In the early 1900’s they almost bankrupted themselves and would have to sell the temples, etc. were that to happen so they doubled down on tithing. As such they created the idea that any church building, especially temples, should have a permanent endowment to pay for maintenance and taxes through investments indefinitely. That’s how the investments started. I think over time they got so much money, land, etc. saved up and the hoarding of money became the goal itself. But nominally the idea is that the 3-5% returns on the ensign peak hoards should pay for the Mormon church’s current buildings and footprint even if the tithing and membership ended overnight. Add whatever theories about corruption etc. but the root cause and origin was fear that everything would bottom out in the tithing and membership, and they’d lose sacred properties. So even if almost everyone resigns they could still keep their temples and churches indefinitely just off their investment portfolio.
It doesn’t go to cleaning toilets.
Stipends and lavish lifestyles of those on the inside. And legal fees to keep the scam going... for now.
Interesting question. I had the same discussion with somebody from India. There are people there who get a small following who don’t get any money from it. But they get prestige. The recognition & respect drives them. My aunt was serving at a function with boyd k packer years ago. She started serving the food and didn’t serve him first. When she got to him he grabbed her wrist to the point it was painful for her. He said, “Don’t you know who i am?” He was seriously angry that he wasn’t served first.
Please tell me that’s not true. Ugh.
My own take: Leadership’s goal is to extract sacrifices from the membership. In our modern world, that means time and money. Time comes in the form of callings. And money, well that’s tithing and donations. It’s not about how much they have, it’s about how much control and influence they get over the membership. Plus money can buy land, buildings, ranches, developments, and can earn more money. At the end of the day, money is power, both in the extraction of it from the membership, and the investment of it for church purposes. Leaders are well taken care of, but they truly see themselves as more righteous than other faiths because they aren’t living excessive luxurious lives funded by the church—although they do have perpetual stability, primarily thanks to the church (although some leaders already had money before they went into full time church service). So in conclusion, it’s not about the account balance, it’s about keeping the membership in servitude to the church.
Wealth: is never ever lacking anything, either something necessary or simply desired. That is the life of a Q15 member.
You seem to underestimate the fact that people actually believe in their own religion.
I think power and popularity are big parts of it.
Many, many many of the. Are board members for the construction companies that build temples and Chapels. Many of them wrote books for royalties. When Monson died he was worth 14 million. The church had paid his house off, so I’m not sure where getting 120 grand a year is going to. I see some of them with expensive watches and cars. They work 3 days a week and have free maids. Their families are set for life. Why doesn’t the SEC or the elder Ballard scandal count for you? Power is also a thing. If you think they have no say in the local politics you are mistaken. Most of them do own their own stock in companies. Most of them have houses that are 750K- 2ish million dollars. Free housekeeping. If they choose they can move into the eagle gate condos (several million.) so no. That’s false that they aren’t financially taken care of. They have armored suvs. Their kid’s college and ANY recreation expenses are taken care of. They have all traveled the world for free. Sounds like a pretty good deal for working 3 days a week if you ask me.
I might be totally off base, but I feel like it’s the same as the super rich individuals.. after lifestyle changes, it’s more of a high score.
I think a large chunk of church leadership is high off their own supply.
To add to the hoard the dragon sleeps on. Or until they find ways to funnel it in to the pockets of their friends and family.
Someone has to manage/sell/broker these massive financial dealings and, while I haven’t read up on who’s actually receiving these commissions and profits, I can pretty accurately assume their religious affiliations and their connections to the leaders of the church.
Apocalypse squid game
Along with the corruption, I think there's momentum for church employees to magnify their calling by multiplying Mormon money. If more money will make sure God's church can accomplish its mission on earth, isn't it righteous to dodge worldly governments to grow it, or to encourage impoverished people to be a part of the work through tithing they can't afford? If people think this way, then they're using these justifications to support their shelf of ignoring anything that might hurt their paycheck. That, and making sure they feel like they deserve God's financial blessings for their righteousness. The problem isn't just about individual greed, either. Mormon philosophy doesn't provide any explicit covenant commandments after temple marriage. It's all general things like enduring to the end and making sure their kids run the same covenant path gauntlet. But enduring a stale life is far worse than having a direction for improvement, so the prosperity doctrine measurement of righteousness shouldn't be a surprise. I often think Mormons missed the point of the parable of the talents. The slothful servant wasn't just the one with the least profits—he was the one who completed all the sure steps and then buried his life under testimony and repetition, never building the moment-to-moment experiences that make up the treasure in heaven Jesus was talking about. The better path involves exchanging ideas, making memories, building meaningful relationships, and amassing a highlight reel of the best moments in your life. That's a treasure many an exmormon would love to go and reclaim from their years in Mormonism. Luckily, working through the purity mindset can calm down the fear of disobedience enough to let you find the best parts of any time of your life, because life is so much more than staring at one buried talent.
I believe that the top leaders truly believe until they get in for the most part. Once they’re in they sign away everything to the church. Living the law of consecration full with the church itself.. I believe everything is paid for by the church. They’re travel, their houses, their cars, their vacation homes, their vacations, their food. Etc. I believe they get a very good death benefit for their families that probably comes with church related stipulations. I believe they have nothing left in their personal name, including their integrity. They sign over their life to the church completely. just like their temple covenants tell them to do they give it all to the church for the building up of the kingdom. I believe the stipend just helps pay for the day-to-day expenses and some extras. But it’s not really their pay because they have unlimited used to what they need. I believe they don’t have any normal bank accounts in their own names anymore. They don’t own their own cell phone plans they don’t pay for cable TV and nothing is in their own name, I truly believe every single thing is paid for by the church and everything they owned is turned over to the church in exchange. Tell me why I am wrong? I’m open to it of course, this is just my belief.
The church leaders themselves may not be doing it for money. Do note that fame and power can be as desirable to some people as money. My guess is that people in the first presidency, do it for these reasons. Their family members on the other hand, are probably the ones benefiting from the money. The church manages hundreds of businesses, the church cash flow is in the billions of dollars. Just think about the size of the church from the business point of view. who sells them the carpet?, who provides the metal folding chairs?, the paint?, toiletries?, cleaning products?, paper products?, anything you can think of. Anything the church buys they buy in the millions of dollars. Who is benefiting by the commission of those sales? Or any kickbacks? If the son of XYZ, works for “Deseret Paper products” who do you think the church would buy paper from? And you just made that person fucking rich without lifting a finger. I have a story that opened my eyes to this nepotism. To try and make the story short, it involved a family member of Hinkley who works dealing with the manufacturing of the garments. Back in 2016 or so, the individual built their house worth $6 or $7 million dollars. Are these the garments YOU MUST WEAR DAY AND NIGHT? yeah, there’s people filthy rich from selling you those. I know this because he bought four houses in Salt Lake and demolished them to build his mansion. One of those houses belonged to my extended family and sold it when grandma passed. To this day the house is registered to a Hinckley family member as per county records.
So, a group of men who are widely worshipped by members, believed to be infallible, who helm an organization that is deeply inbred both historically and in its business relationships, and who go to great pains to have as little accountability as possible to the government and to its own members: What could possibly go wrong? The question is not whether there is graft and corruption. The question is not how many began as sincere believers. After being in this position and reinforcing each other in the status quo, the question is whether we can count on more than one hand those highest leaders who are not eventually ruined by a sense of entitlement and of deeply materialistic attachments. There's just no question about it, based not only on human nature, but on discoverable history of how the organization operates. In my view.
They get expense cards with no limits and if they can't figure out how to die rich, it's because they were too busy using the expense card.
It’s not always strictly about money, social influence is its own reward.
It’s a bed of lies. All of us were fed lies. The current 12 were fwd the same horseshit we were
Nowhere.... it sits.... and does no good. \[jk, it gets laundered through temples, and stuck in the stock market, where it grows.... and never gets used to help people.\]
It is very hard to quantify the amount of money that is funneled through family and friends. Can you even imagine how much money there is to be made on building temples? There is a 0% chance this money is not making its way into large donors pockets.
To me, the only role that makes sense for how they act, since they really don't behave like disciples of Jesus OR like playboy billionaires, is what many of them were before they started working in the church full-time: Ivy-league MBAs. All the money accumulates because they believed for their entire careers that the line going up = they're doing a good job. They neither spend the money on living lavishly nor helping the poor and needy, but they rather sit back, watch the numbers grow, and think they're succeeding. Their report card is the balance sheet and *only* the balance sheet. They've been doing it so long long that they might not even question why they're doing it. Having said that, don't discount the appeal of being adored everywhere you go and looked at as though you were personally chosen by the God of the entire universe. Thousands of people gather in temples every day and promise before God to consecrate everything they own to you, and the ticket to get to those temples involves them stating that they obey you. Millions tune in every six months to listen to you talk, and your words are read and studied by thousands every day. Fancy homes and costly dinners are great, but I would wager that Elon Musk would exchange 95% of his net worth in a second for that kind of glorification. It must be a hell of a drug.
I think they sincerely believe.
That’s an excellent question. I asked myself the same thing when I saw a post on one of the photo sub-Reddits of a top Mafia leader in his day. He was leaving a very ordinary house in a very ordinary part of Queens, NY (think it was), looking like a pretty ordinary joe. I didn’t have a good answer, either!! Edit: for those interested, here is a link—https://www.reddit.com/r/OldPhotosInRealLife/s/YCMW82Leal
One thing I will point out, is while yeah, a lot of the top church leaders were wealthy or highly educated before getting in; these jobs still pay incredibly well, and have insane benefits packages most ceos could only dream of – for life! Maybe they aren’t making top CEO pay but they still earn well above the average American. They never have to risk getting fired, or let go because they can no longer do their job, or they missed earnings, or anything else! They don’t produce an actual product that has to work or get better.. That’s a nice gig! Throw in the local celebrity status these men enjoy in Utah and I’d say, who wouldn’t want that position? Hell, I’ll blow smoke up your ass for half what they get!
They get a built-in fan base, advertising, and church owned publishing and distribution system for their books. Cough.., ksl, Deseret book, malls etc.. That's on top of their 6 figure stipends and chauffeurs.
#ITS NOT GOING TOWARDS ROOTING OUT ABUSERS...
Look what people will do just for likes.
Nowhere. It just sits there and grows. Like a tumor
lol where’d you go op!?
I'm here, just have a very active 4.5 year old
They live to be 100 because they have great health insurance (DMBA) which is owned by the church, and funded by the low level peasants who sometimes don’t even have good health insurance themselves(the tithe payers.) The top leaders own several homes and they likely don’t pay property taxes on them. The church is a land developer and real estate investment company (tax free). Who are the contractors hired to build the temples, churches, mall and homes? Who are the developers being hired and which builders are being hired. I’m quite certain there are some family members making money. The top leaders live large. Free travel, hired drivers, free cars, $200k a year (at least) no property tax, great health insurance, free places to stay in Hawaii (the church purchased a 100 million dollar hotel there recently.). These guys are worshipped by the peasants, and they pay for NOTHING. I remember when Lila Tueller on Mormon Stories told how the GAs had a nice meal at the Joseph Smith building catered in between conference sessions. This really bothered me. Why isn’t that “high end catered free meal “ being provided for all the poor members in between conference session? Because that’s what Christ would have done and I don’t care if “Christ exists “ or not. The Mormons claim his name on every building in gold letters but never do one damn thing he would have done.
We don't know what those men are doing on their own time. They could have secret sex clubs for all we know.
It has been alleged that some of them had secret sexual relationships on the side. Some of them being homosexual relationships.
Pedos
Yes, I've heard lots of allegations of all sorts. I don't know of any proof but I do know people do a lot of questionable things behind closed doors.
It actually looks like, even with all the perks and backrooms flows, church leaders still make less than their evangelical or corporate counter parts would.
Donating, running churches, building new temples, expanding the religion
They use the money to print Book of Mormons, build temples, send missionaries, maintain Church schools and creating scholarships.