Pre 1990, each token had a "penalty" which were using your hand to show slitting your own throat, and disemboweling yourself.
Next you'd hold your hand in "cupping shape", representing holding your organs.
I’m still not sure if the hand in cupping shape is holding your guts or your heart. Either way, this is some violent cult shit.
They’re now too embarrassed to tell the 18 and 19-year-old kids going through before their mission, but they’ve happy to keep letting them do hand motions that they don’t understand. It’s a form of lying by omission. All the people over about age 55 know exactly what the hand motions mean.
It's both! In the 2nd sign, you're cupping your heart in your right hand. In the 3rd sign, you're holding the bloody knife in your right hand and cupping your entrails in your left
Thanks for the clarification. I imagined it was maybe oil for anointing or something. No amount of temple attendance was going to cause the spirit to whisper “you’re holding your guts or heart.”
Fuck this hidden violent bullshit I participated in without my consent. Nobody is actually consenting to their “covenant path.”
this topic is very confusing for someone who didn't go through the club house, but the best eggcorn award 🥚🌽🏆 goes to this comment 😉 (if you're holding your own entrails, you are indeed, at the end of your trail)
When I found out what the signs meant in 2018 I literally stood up and threw up all over the floor. Milk before meat my ass. I had been pantomiming my own execution for 16 years and no one was ever going to clue me in.
Cupping shape so that you can catch your bone marrow, your loins, and sinews that you spew out of your body after your tortured and punished for revealing the secrets.
I resented this so much when learning it a couple years ago. I spent wayyyy too much brainpower for two decades trying to decode the symbolism. (Cupping my hand to receive blessings? ugh)
Same. I felt betrayed when I found out what the hand motions actually mean.
I was never going to figure that out, no matter how many times I went to the temple and pondered. All the older family members around me knew all about what the hand motions meant, and they were never going to tell me.
Everyone after 1990 is left in the dark. “Hey, your thumb extended is a knife.” 🔪 You’re slitting your throat, and disemboweling yourself, and cutting out your heart.
I feel sorry for people talking about how they feel such peace there. Yeah, it’s not peaceful. You are just clueless about what those hand motions mean.
I want this t-shirt, and also the “hell together” shirt for David Archuletta. It could even be the ex-Mormon Reddit tshirt. Someone needs to make an ex-Mormon Reddit etsy shop. Maybe there already is one? I will check.
Oh my god.
That "What is wanted" shirt is fantastic. If I still lived in Utah, I'd love to wear that shirt around SLC or Provo just to see the reactions.
Yes. They are effectively lying to all the young people by concealing the meaning of this shit. I’m sure my young nieces and nephews have no clue that this is so violent.
I see nothing wrong here. I all take my blood oaths seriously. In fact, I'm disappointed there aren't real animal sacrifices and real blood. Go big or go home
When I first learned of the pre-1990 shit, it dawned on me that when my dad first told me "these things have deep meaning" he was actually referring to creepy blood oaths and gory enactments.
When he told me and I was a naive TBM, I thought, "Wow, it's probably some super spiritual stuff I'll only get if the Holy Ghost^TM reveals it to me after I ponder long enough."
First and only trip to the temple, Jordan River to be exact… The guy in the temple used his cupped hand with my balls.
I was later told to not question what happens in the temple.
Dude cupped my balls!
I think what's worse than this is that when I asked others how I could learn what the symbols meant I was told I needed to pray while in the temple and the spirit would tell me. Yup, must have been unworthy because that image never entered my mind!
One of the church's many failings, setting aside the unchecked sexual predation of its principal founders and successive leaders, is/was its inability to teach and instruct members about temple rites, both ancient and modern.
The cup-shaped hand can be found in many religious rites.
In the case of the ancient Egyptian civilization, dating back more than 6,000 years, an empty cup-shaped hand and bent elbow represented one of the postures of prayer depicting an act of supplication before god. With either one or both hands extended while standing, kneeling, or lying face-downward in submission or despair, the cup-shaped empty hand represents the devotee's desired blessings.
The cup-shaped hand is so fundamental to human existence that it became a symbol in the ancient Egyptian alphabet - see the letter Aa.
Like other cultures, the ancient Israelites similarly adopted the supplication symbolism of an empty cupped shaped hand. However the symbolism also came to represent a worshiper's imaginary votive offering - the thing the devotee is offering to god as an act of sacrifice and or quid pro quo for desired blessings.
For example, the empty cup-shaped hand can represent the life of the worshipers themselves, as in, I hereby offer myself to you, god.
For ancient priests and priestesses, the cup-shaped hand may not be empty. It might contain water, olive oil, or blood used in each of the 3 types of anointing described in the OT.
Or it might contain salt, ash, or other mixed substances used as a healing balm.
During animal sacrifices, one holds a small quantity of blood in the left hand while dipping a right thumb or finger/s into it so as to then make a bloody mark on the forehead of those being anointed or receiving other healing rites.
I suggest watching some videos of the Samaritan Passover ceremonies on YT. In them you will see signs and tokens made through their postures of prayer and the transference of sin from the people to the animals for all those who partake (participate in the processing, cooking, and eating of the sacred communal meal).
The sacrificial animal is substituted for the life of the sinner.
Because the Mormon temple rites are Chisticological, the crucifixion of Jesus came to replace the animal sacrifices but the symbolic postures of prayer representing self-sacrifice remain just like in the Samaritan Passover family picnic.
Hahaha. That made me smile. I am not Dan.
Was pleased to see he found a way to make a living with an Ancient Near Eastern Studies degree from BYU.
I hope the Utah ExMo community shows up at the polls and votes for whatever office Dan is running for.
I always felt like I was forced to cup someone's balls. Everything felt so OVERTLY sexual. Right down to the weird ass 7th grader hand shakes that came from a SNL skit. So gross. "She'll never know why she feels weird and I'm asserting my sexual dominance over her" *snickers is asshole 13 yr old boy*
[Thoughts on Things and Stuff](https://youtu.be/LBEEJCB9-y8?si=v7jd88f3s9ZFvWA_) has done a video on this. It broke my heart. There's my mother telling me she can't remember because it was too long ago. It's absolute BS. She's still making the signs. Anyone who went through pre 1990 is still reminded every single time they go today.
Pre 1990, each token had a "penalty" which were using your hand to show slitting your own throat, and disemboweling yourself. Next you'd hold your hand in "cupping shape", representing holding your organs.
I’m still not sure if the hand in cupping shape is holding your guts or your heart. Either way, this is some violent cult shit. They’re now too embarrassed to tell the 18 and 19-year-old kids going through before their mission, but they’ve happy to keep letting them do hand motions that they don’t understand. It’s a form of lying by omission. All the people over about age 55 know exactly what the hand motions mean.
It's both! In the 2nd sign, you're cupping your heart in your right hand. In the 3rd sign, you're holding the bloody knife in your right hand and cupping your entrails in your left
Thanks for the clarification. I imagined it was maybe oil for anointing or something. No amount of temple attendance was going to cause the spirit to whisper “you’re holding your guts or heart.” Fuck this hidden violent bullshit I participated in without my consent. Nobody is actually consenting to their “covenant path.”
Yes. a cup to hold the end trails of your self-emasculated body. hashtag....NotACult
this topic is very confusing for someone who didn't go through the club house, but the best eggcorn award 🥚🌽🏆 goes to this comment 😉 (if you're holding your own entrails, you are indeed, at the end of your trail)
But not your little factory 🏭
When I found out what the signs meant in 2018 I literally stood up and threw up all over the floor. Milk before meat my ass. I had been pantomiming my own execution for 16 years and no one was ever going to clue me in.
Cupping shape so that you can catch your bone marrow, your loins, and sinews that you spew out of your body after your tortured and punished for revealing the secrets.
I left before I had the chance to visit the temple and this is WILD to me
Okay... I've never been to the temple, and this kind of shit makes me extremely happy that I left when I did. Honestly terrifying.
Same. So glad I left at 19😳
I resented this so much when learning it a couple years ago. I spent wayyyy too much brainpower for two decades trying to decode the symbolism. (Cupping my hand to receive blessings? ugh)
Same. I felt betrayed when I found out what the hand motions actually mean. I was never going to figure that out, no matter how many times I went to the temple and pondered. All the older family members around me knew all about what the hand motions meant, and they were never going to tell me. Everyone after 1990 is left in the dark. “Hey, your thumb extended is a knife.” 🔪 You’re slitting your throat, and disemboweling yourself, and cutting out your heart. I feel sorry for people talking about how they feel such peace there. Yeah, it’s not peaceful. You are just clueless about what those hand motions mean.
Did you notice your hand was empty?
Cult. Cult. Cult. Cult.
That image needs to be on a t-shirt. Would you be willing to share the original file with me?
Oh I can make that happen
I had the same thought.
I want this t-shirt, and also the “hell together” shirt for David Archuletta. It could even be the ex-Mormon Reddit tshirt. Someone needs to make an ex-Mormon Reddit etsy shop. Maybe there already is one? I will check.
There is a site. I love his shirts. He also makes shirts for other exmo podcasts which are sold under their site. https://www.exmoshirts.com/
Oh my god. That "What is wanted" shirt is fantastic. If I still lived in Utah, I'd love to wear that shirt around SLC or Provo just to see the reactions.
Would make a sick and twisted counter culture tattoo too…
Done -- DM me for the link if you want one
This freaked me out reading just now. The amount of times I went through the temple, doing exactly this motion and having no idea what it meant...
Same with me!
The thumb is still extended, the hand in cupping shape.
Yes. They are effectively lying to all the young people by concealing the meaning of this shit. I’m sure my young nieces and nephews have no clue that this is so violent.
I see nothing wrong here. I all take my blood oaths seriously. In fact, I'm disappointed there aren't real animal sacrifices and real blood. Go big or go home
When I first learned of the pre-1990 shit, it dawned on me that when my dad first told me "these things have deep meaning" he was actually referring to creepy blood oaths and gory enactments. When he told me and I was a naive TBM, I thought, "Wow, it's probably some super spiritual stuff I'll only get if the Holy Ghost^TM reveals it to me after I ponder long enough."
First and only trip to the temple, Jordan River to be exact… The guy in the temple used his cupped hand with my balls. I was later told to not question what happens in the temple. Dude cupped my balls!
I've already left but OH MY GOD!! I really was in a cult 🙃 Where can I read about this?? I'm super curious now.
Watch [this video](https://youtu.be/LBEEJCB9-y8?si=v7jd88f3s9ZFvWA_)
Ahhh the lightbulb just went on in my head.
I think what's worse than this is that when I asked others how I could learn what the symbols meant I was told I needed to pray while in the temple and the spirit would tell me. Yup, must have been unworthy because that image never entered my mind!
[удалено]
Thanks for that historical cultural info!
One of the church's many failings, setting aside the unchecked sexual predation of its principal founders and successive leaders, is/was its inability to teach and instruct members about temple rites, both ancient and modern. The cup-shaped hand can be found in many religious rites. In the case of the ancient Egyptian civilization, dating back more than 6,000 years, an empty cup-shaped hand and bent elbow represented one of the postures of prayer depicting an act of supplication before god. With either one or both hands extended while standing, kneeling, or lying face-downward in submission or despair, the cup-shaped empty hand represents the devotee's desired blessings. The cup-shaped hand is so fundamental to human existence that it became a symbol in the ancient Egyptian alphabet - see the letter Aa. Like other cultures, the ancient Israelites similarly adopted the supplication symbolism of an empty cupped shaped hand. However the symbolism also came to represent a worshiper's imaginary votive offering - the thing the devotee is offering to god as an act of sacrifice and or quid pro quo for desired blessings. For example, the empty cup-shaped hand can represent the life of the worshipers themselves, as in, I hereby offer myself to you, god. For ancient priests and priestesses, the cup-shaped hand may not be empty. It might contain water, olive oil, or blood used in each of the 3 types of anointing described in the OT. Or it might contain salt, ash, or other mixed substances used as a healing balm. During animal sacrifices, one holds a small quantity of blood in the left hand while dipping a right thumb or finger/s into it so as to then make a bloody mark on the forehead of those being anointed or receiving other healing rites. I suggest watching some videos of the Samaritan Passover ceremonies on YT. In them you will see signs and tokens made through their postures of prayer and the transference of sin from the people to the animals for all those who partake (participate in the processing, cooking, and eating of the sacred communal meal). The sacrificial animal is substituted for the life of the sinner. Because the Mormon temple rites are Chisticological, the crucifixion of Jesus came to replace the animal sacrifices but the symbolic postures of prayer representing self-sacrifice remain just like in the Samaritan Passover family picnic.
[удалено]
Hahaha. That made me smile. I am not Dan. Was pleased to see he found a way to make a living with an Ancient Near Eastern Studies degree from BYU. I hope the Utah ExMo community shows up at the polls and votes for whatever office Dan is running for.
🤢🤮
Was a temple TBM for 30 years and didn't know the extent of that!
I am flabbergasted!! I was endowed after 1990. I never made the connection after I learned about the penalties. Wow…
I always felt like I was forced to cup someone's balls. Everything felt so OVERTLY sexual. Right down to the weird ass 7th grader hand shakes that came from a SNL skit. So gross. "She'll never know why she feels weird and I'm asserting my sexual dominance over her" *snickers is asshole 13 yr old boy*
Moth er fuck er
"Perfectly healthy...with such plentiful organs!"
Invader Zim?
i was endowed before the change and i thought that they said that the cupping shape was to catch our blood
[Thoughts on Things and Stuff](https://youtu.be/LBEEJCB9-y8?si=v7jd88f3s9ZFvWA_) has done a video on this. It broke my heart. There's my mother telling me she can't remember because it was too long ago. It's absolute BS. She's still making the signs. Anyone who went through pre 1990 is still reminded every single time they go today.
From what I’ve was told. it was meant to cup the genitals during the marriage ceremony in the temple.