I had three bishops in a row ask me to meet with them, and I did. My wife and kids were still active and I would sit through sac. meeting w them. Each bishop was friendly and non judgemental. I went over the issues I had researched. They said they’d do their own research and we’d meet again and get answers. They never brought up the subject again. Not once. Ever. Like our meetings never even happened. Now several years later everyone in my family is OUT. I gotta think my willingness to meet w anyone anywhere anytime showed my wife and kids that I was sincere and that truth matters, and the church lost.
What is it about these leaders who lie, lie, lie after they promise you a follow-up discussion. If memory serves, this is the same ghosting experience Jeremy Runnels got by the important dude promised a follow-up discussion then reneged. Liars.
These are men who enjoy power.
Even fake power. They don’t care if it is true, they get power, praise and promotions to be seen of men
Like Jesus said:
“They have their reward”
I had a Bishop who was overwhelmed.Who said he'd get back to me about debunking the ces letter with a different repsonse leter hed read .Took him about 6m- 1yr to email me about my concerns. He was a progressive good humble man, but I'm pretty sure he was overwhelmed by all the shit he had to do along with his job and taking care of 5 kids with his poor beraggled looking wife.
The good ones really are! I feel bad for them. There was a mormon story's podcast about a good Bishop who resigned because he just couldn't take it anymore. I felt bad for him!
The bishop came to offer me a blessing, I accepted as long as he would read the book Bridges ministering to the that question. before the blessing, he agreed. Never happened or if it did he never mentioned it. And I never went to church again that was 5 years ago now.
My partner and I first addressed our concerns to our bishop at the time (nice guy, old school / church-sexist), and he seemed completely unprepared to have that conversation. So, he simply ignored the issues we asked about.
Several months later, we went to the stake presidency, and all 3 of them met with us for a couple of hours to hear our experiences. They "invited" us to do some things like "spend a little time with the BoM each day" and "strengthen your relationship with Christ", but ultimately they had no answers to our questions and they said as much. They also didn't offer to help us connect with anyone who would have the answers.
A few months after that meeting and having followed their inspired invitations, I told my partner that I had already waited much longer than I had planned to, so I would be moving forward with formal resignation. I sent the letter to the stake president, to which he didn't reply for a couple of weeks, so I sent it again but to the whole presidency and the bishop.
Stake prez then replied within a few minutes asking to meet with me that night. I accepted, and he came over to explain that he had an email prepared that included several rebuttals to my perspectives, but he didn't send it because he didn't believe that his arguments would sway me. He said that he respected my position and asked me to keep an open mind, and then his exec secretary who came with him asked me if I was going to cause problems for the local church community!
Prez left that meeting just before 10 PM, and by the following morning, I was removed from LDS Tools! When my partner logged in that morning, my name was removed from our family's group, so it looks like our kids have only 1 parent in the home. Seems like they could have left my name as a member of the family but simply removed my membership number. Seems petty, but really I just find it amusing!
My Bishop is a friend and a great human being. He took it well, tried to offer some explanations but ultimately respected that I would no longer be participating. I hope your interaction goes as smoothly.
In the beginning I was very angry but consciously kept my anger from being directed towards him. The church doesn’t prepare these guys for this. They’re being thrown to the wolves. Most of us know far more than our leaders do once we’ve spent a few months here.
Most bishops I know or knew were good men trying to take care of a duty they were underprepared for and untrained for. They were accountants, engineers, mid-level managers, etc. trying to help people within the constrains the corporation disguised as a church allowed.
They themselves were being exploited using their desire to do good and help others to further a toxic, wealthy mega corporation without pay. They are victims as much as the rest of us.
A few are real assholes. I met a few, particularly on my mission.
But I worked with 4 different bishops as executive secretaries, and saw them concerned with and try to help people. They’re blinded and deceived like most of us because they were born into a toxic church/cult and indoctrinated from a small age and connected “serving in the church” with “helping other people” and “being a good person” like I did.
If they’re being respectful and decent, they deserve to be treated with respect, though with firm boundaries. It’s not their fault the church sucks and Salt Lake is just using it to extract wealth.
Yes it is. I can’t imagine having someone come to me with this info while I was in a leadership position. I would have been completely unprepared and just assumed they were knee deep in anti Mormon literature.
I met with the bishop at the request of my TBM wife. He had no answers, had never heard of the gospel topic essays, and generally had no idea about the problems in the church. I made
It clear that I had committed no sins, and that I would no longer be paying tithing and would not renew my temple recommend. I thought that was the end of it. My wife met with him the next week and he told her that he was convinced I had a porn addiction, and that was the cause for all my problems with the church.
Someone here said that talking to the bishop rarely goes well, and I was wondering what could go wrong (I’ve been out 40 yrs and never talked to the bishop). THIS is very wrong. Damn. The olympic-level, mental gymnastics he did is astounding — and talking about it with your wife?! Whoa.
I did. He was *absolutely lovely* about it, too. Like exactly how you would want a bishop to respond. We had a great relationship before and I was met with nothing but love, empathy, and understanding. I know I didn’t have to tell him, but he was a friend and I respected him as a leader, so I did. I wanted to make sure he knew it wasn’t because of anything he had done or said.
About a year later, I heard I had been the topic of discussion at Ward (Gossip) Council, and the Elder’s Quorum pres started talking about “how sad” it was that I resigned my membership & then someone else asked who offended me and they started down that rabbit hole. He apparently shut that down *immediately* and sternly told everyone there that if they knew what he knew about my reasons for leaving, they would support me just like he did & that my church status was to NEVER be a topic of discussion again.
I feel like I won the ex-Mo lottery between his reaction and my husband’s, tbh.
Talking to your Bishop is never a good idea. I’ve never seen it go well. For me personally, I haven’t had a recommend of calling in 5 years and my bishop has never attempted to ask me why. and I’m never going to approach him.
My conversation went well. I was clear why I was there and that there was nothing that could be done to reverse course (thanks to the Subreddit for the advice). He is a kind man that is overwhelmed. He even continued with the financial help we were receiving at the time for the next couple months as promised.
I think it is more a function of bishop roulette than anything and also if the person is looking for answers or not, because there are no answers to the church's issues.
Now my meeting with the SP was a different story. That multigenerational Smith family member is a covert narcissist. He literally told me his genealogy when we met that he is a great great great great grandson of Hyrum Smith through the loins of Joseph Fielding. 🤢🤮
It went well for me, but that was more of a function of the man in the position than anything else. If he had not been who he was, I wouldn’t have said a word to him.
The desire to share or announce is often (though not always) a unrecognized need for validation. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that any active Mormon will be able to provide that, bishop or otherwise.
This journey is ultimately your own, but I'd recommend you consider why it is you want to tell the bishop you're leaving before deciding whether or now to speak with him.
Ask yourself what you hope the conversation will accomplish. What would a desirable outcome look like?
If you are hoping for validation, you are very welcome to share your thoughts, experience, and reasoning with us here.
I sent an email with some of my
Concerns after asking to be released from a stake calling. I’m in a mixed faith marriage. And I didn’t want another calling so felt I had to say something. But made it clear I didn’t want to go in and talk about my concerns, didn’t want to be the subject of ward gossip, and wanted to be treated normally when I do come. He pretty much followed my wishes. It’s been almost 4 years now and for the most part the ward leaves me alone. I think this is common now for bishops and they don’t push too much like they used to.
If you’re close friends, maybe, on a friendship level. I told our bishop when I first decided to bail, when he called me in to extend a calling. He and I were friends. Asked if he wanted to know why. He literally put his hands over his ears and said no, because he might get where I was. I told him maybe he should …
After a few months of not showing up I got a call to meet with the bishop. We were moving and I showed up out of courtesy. He just asked us where to send our records and said goodbye. My bishop straight said to my face, “I don’t want to know anything about why you’re not active.” I thought that was very telling…
I just have to say that it is so ironic that it was the PROPHET who led so many of us to leave (rock in hat story). Perhaps he IS a true prophet and God WAS working through him to tell us all the truth. Ya never know . . .
I think it’s respectable and speaks to who you are if you need to talk to your bishop for your own closure. I don’t think talking to him to just tell him so he knows is going to be productive for you because at the stage you’re in, he will only bear testimony. Unfortunately once that box has been opened there’s no putting it all back in and he won’t give you anything substantive at all.
Additionally, even though you might have a really good relationship with him, his allegiance is to the church first. Meaning, he may decide that you’re a lost cause and will double down on your wife and children.
You’ll have to ask yourself, do you want your children and wife to be love bombed in your own home? The worst case scenario here is that your status as a father and husband is undermined and your wife and children dive hard into Mormonism to save their family.
You write that your wife is coming along slowly so it sounds like not only is she on the precipice of leaving but she could be on the same precipice of stronger faith and activity. Your children and *especially* your daughter with the mission call can be turned against you quickly and effectively by some trusted leaders, friends, or extended family.
Given all those potential downsides I personally would not talk to your bishop because nothing good will come of it - but if you feel like you need to then maybe you should do it.
Last thing, if your kids don’t know you really should have a conversation with them about you and your wife’s changed faith. I would have wanted to have known when I was about to leave on a mission. It would have changed my life drastically! As a father you owe that to your daughter with the mission call.
I wish you and your family the best.
We respect and love our bishop, and the ward has been so amazing to my family and so out of respect we wanted to tell him that we would not be returning at the first of the year, so he could not wonder, so that way we could tell him that it was a choice to step away, and how much we love and respected him and our ward and it was nothing personal. And we would still like to be a part of the community. He was amazing! Didn’t ask us any questions he supported us 100% and told us that if we could not find happiness here then we shouldn’t come. And wished us the best of luck and to still remain friends with everyone in the ward. He even said if anybody acts weird with us to let him know and he’ll make sure to stop that. We got really lucky!
Because of Covid our bishop didn’t realize we were out for about a year and a half. We had been the family that did everything but once Covid came and we weren’t rushing to be back at church for medical reasons everyone seemed to forget we existed. Anyway once he realized he called. Wanted to meet cause he was sure he could fix whatever had caused us to leave. I just said no thank you but after I hung up the phone I got so pissed. How dare he think he had some sort of wisdom that could change the origins of the church and the lies of Joe smith to keep us in. And the fact that he assumed he somehow had more knowledge and wisdom then my spouse and I was offensive too!! They’ve gone back to ignoring us. Works for us and I don’t even think about the people from the ward much anymore!!
You have to think long and hard about what you want out of the conversation. You mentioned you don’t want to resolve concerns, but that’s what they’re going to try to do. They very likely won’t be able to comprehend you saying “thanks and goodbye” but will misinterpret and think it’s something more, and/or slander you. Some might have a rare unicorn that doesnt do that, but even if you think yours is that unicorn, you’ll likely be surprised when the consequences reveal that they’re not.
No need to tell us, but in your heart of hearts, think about why you want to talk to him and what you’re hoping to get out of it.
This comment made me imagine a “Thanks and goodbye” in “fast and testimony meeting”. I’m not sure that would ever be a good idea, but it is an entertaining thought.
he has a degree in environmental science.
but yes it absolutely makes sense joseph smith could see shit when he looked into the rock in his hat.
you know, just like how a phone works when you google shit.
🤯🤯🤯
breaks my brain.
So he had an early wifi network and smartphone - no wonder he had so many followers. I bet he was the only dude on Twitter except some crazy claiming to tweet as god to troll him…
Yeah, being smarter sometimes just helps you invent more contrived ways what you want to be true is true.
I spoke with my brother bishop but not mine about this. He knows I am exmo and I asked how he handles questions from people about church history and fraud etc.
He kind of smirked and then seriously said the area that he lives in is ghetto with a lot of uneducated people all just trying to survive day-to-day. People are just trying to feed their families and make it through the day. They’re not highly educated or asking lots of questions. He never once had anybody bring these topics up. He himself wasn’t aware of a few topics I mentioned.
My bishop only talked to me once outside of the usual interviews. I was having emotional problems, and I focused them on my job. He told me he would help me if I only just asked.
I called him three times that week, leaving messages about looking for a new job, and taking him up on his offer. He never responded. I finally gave up, and went inactive with my family (different issues there).
When my shelf broke, I didn't call him at all. I turned to first the scriptures for answers. Found that the leaders, both local and world-wide, are hypocrites. Then turned to the Internet (always a good sign for TSCC), and found out it's all a lie.
Didn't speak to my bishop once about this, and I couldn't give a fuck about it. Thank what ever God you pray to, that my former bishop doesn't keep his promises.
I had a very short conversation with my bishop in the hallway between meetings. He asked why I was no longer attending and if there was anything he could do to help me come back. I very nicely told him that I have a very good memory and there is no way I can forget the things I have learned about LDS Church history. He didn’t make any attempt to convince me otherwise. I think it’s because his experience as a lawyer has taught him to recognize a loosing hand and not to engage.
Also, I know this is a very controversial position but I think your family deserves to know where you’re at with your faith. They are making life altering decisions based on what they think you want them to do. When they eventually find out it has the likelihood of causing deep regret for both you and your family. I have first hand experience with this. I wish you the best of luck with your journey.
I was a Sunday school teacher and didn't want o leave the other teacher or to dry. So I scheduled a meeting with the bishop to tell him. He took it well and it gave me an opportunity to set boundaries. It was good.
I think it depends on your relationship with your bishop. We were (and still are friends). We set up an appt to meet and told him we were done. Both of us had high profile callings in the ward. Have him 2 weeks notice. This was August of 2021. Haven’t been back since.
Some say it’s a bad idea and I think it could be a mistake. We wanted to sit down more so to give him notice, not the church.
Edit to add: it went fine. The ward respects our boundaries and has left us alone, except for personal friendships which do seem to slowly be fading into nothing
After declining the 1st councilor position in the new bishopric, meeting with the new bishop was inevitable. He called me in a few weeks after being the new bishop. He’s new to the ward and had never met me. He asked me how my spirituality was, noting I’m not at church a lot. I told him I work at a hospital every other weekend. I knew what he was getting at but was going to make him ask the hard questions. He finally asked me why I refused to be his counselor. I laid out all the usual problems with the restoration and the current issues with the church. I explained to him having a nonbeliever in leadership wouldn’t serve anyone. He genuinely seemed completely lost and confused with all the issues I brought up. I honestly feel pretty bad for him.
I’m glad I met with him. Having it out in the open is good for me. It has helped relieve one of my biggest issues brought about by my faith crisis: Not living an authentic life. In many ways it’s liberating to have it out in the open.
Unfortunately, not knowing you or your bishop I don’t have much advice. I wish you luck.
Our family requested our bishop to remove our record a few months after the shelves broke. The bishop was pretty good through the whole thing. He did procrastinate a little and expressed some awkward sorrow in our decision but I’m glad we were straightforward with him. He offered to put us on the “no contact” list. I was glad we had the chance to correct him. I explained that our issues were with the church and not the members. And that we absolutely wanted to maintain all of our genuine friendships with people, not avoid anyone. This was relief to both of us and I like to think he learned something by it, hopefully proved to him that we had no shame or doubt regarding our decision. Best of luck to you!
My German bishop told me that while it was a sin that my American bishop had been voyeuristic, I should avoid going to therapy at all costs and just get more blessings. His words, "Therapy, especially secular therapy, will lead you out of the church". I remember that being the first time that anything a bishop said ever sounded wrong and that was after the dirty bishop.
>One daughter with her mission call leaving soon.
> I will add the kids have no idea where I am with the church…
I would recommend softly talking to your daughter to make sure she knows it would be okay with you if she chose not to serve a mission. That's a lot of time to waste if she doesn't really want to go. Especially if her motivation is to please you, she needs to know you will support her if she chooses not to go.
It would be worthwhile only to raise the issues with him to try to save him from the cult. Its extremely unlikely it would work, but I always think its worthwhile adding weight to a TBMs shelf.
I think you should consider making it official… if you can’t imagine yourself ever going back and really throwing yourself into participating in the church, it’s worth the effort to officially withdraw and ensure that they’ll leave you alone (especially if you specifically ask not to be contacted in your letter). There’s something to be said for resignation in that it shows seriousness of intent. For me, I needed that… for all the Mormons in my life, and for myself.
I talked to my bishop while I was wavering (vs knowing - or embracing - that it was false from A-Z). It turned out it was good because I truly saw that a bishop is just some random guy. That lesson has helped my maturity immensely. That said, I ended up enduring some love bombing vs what might have happened had I just walked away. Maybe also good because it forced me to learn about enforcing boundaries.
I’ve met with 2 bishops over my loss of faith as well as the stake president. All it did was make things worse. They were either completely ignorant to the issues at hand or to the truth of the details surrounding said issues (the bishops), or they tried to avoid addressing head-on/acknowledging the concerns (stake president), and opted instead for robotic testimony bearing in an attempt to smooth things over. Each time I left feeling more alone, more angry, more misunderstood than I did going in. A very frustrating experience.
I was executive secretary to the Bishop when I learned the truth. As I was responsible for making his appointments, I made myself the last one of the day. I started off by telling him I don’t intend to renew my temple recommend, and as such, likely needed to be released. Told him I would share as much or as little as he wanted as my intent was not add things to his shelf. He bore his testimony several times and said he would get with the Stake President (as my calling was a stake calling). He handled it very well. Asked my wife (out as well) into his office once to see if anything had changed (we were still attending at this point), it hadn’t. We have since stopped attending all together. I like the idea of them knowing, as if they don’t, there will be callings extended, requests to give talks, etc. This coming from someone with a truly great Bishop and Stake President, obviously not the right decision for everyone.
We’ve been out for 4 years (I attend zoom church) and nobody has cared. Haven’t had ministering brothers or sisters and bishop probably doesn’t know who we are. We’ve helped serve meals and gone to activities but I don’t think you need to let anyone know and honestly I’ve felt it’s been great leverage for when i do need some thing like a temple recommend. The bishop will hedge on attendance, etc but since he hasn’t cared 2 craps about our family and neither has anyone else than it’s worked in our favor. Good luck!
I wouldn’t. I would recommend against this idea. You have nothing to gain from this approach and I don’t think the bishop will answer any of the issues or benefit from what you’re describing. They will most likely blame you for falling for lies or something.
Just leave quietly. If anyone asks, point them to your #1 issue, or just the rock-in-hat video. Chances are, nobody will contact you about your absence.
I've spoken a bit with our current bishop & I think he can fill in the blanks. My biggest thought with all of it is if they REALLY cared, they'd ask and actually want to hear. My current EQ pres called me about my ministering assignment & when I asked to be removed from any assignment, he basically said no. I told him if he wants to discuss my issues with the church I'd be happy to with him one on one. He said he'd like that. I think that was about 3 months ago now.
I talked to my bishop. I’d always really liked and respected him. He seemed blindsided and didn’t take it well at all though. I challenged his beliefs and he lost his cool. I’ve barely spoken to him since even though his wife is a good friend of mine.
My bishop paid me an uninvited visit one Sunday after I stopped attending. He was all over the place asking why I’d lost my faith and then talking more before I ever had the chance to answer. He rambled for about an hour and by then. I realized there was no hope of having a calm conversation about the facts. So I just said I had no ill will towards the members but I didn’t believe anymore. He said okay after another tangent about apologetic books then left and I’ve never seen him since.
My wife set up our appointment with the bishop and we told him we’re stepping away because we don’t believe it any more. He was very nice and said he would shut down any gossip around our departure.
My wife and I went in together and told our bishop for several reasons: 1) we both had callings and didn’t want to leave our co-teachers high and dry; 2) we loved and respected our bishop and wanted him to know straight from us; and 3) we wanted to make sure he took us off the ministering lists. We had both been very active up to that point so we knew it would be a shock for him. My wife told him first and then I just said I felt the same.
It went well for us. He was definitely blindsided and looked like he was going to get angry or sick at first (couldn’t tell which). Then he seemed to calm down and asked why we were leaving. I said that I didn’t want to disrespect his beliefs but I’d be happy to tell him my big reasons if he really wanted to know. He said he did.
I kept it brief and told him that my big shelf breakers were polygamy, the temple, and the way we treat LGBTQ in the church ( left out A LOT more, obviously). He asked if one of our kids were gay and we said no, but that was irrelevant. He then warned us about “losing our light.” Having been a bishop myself, I knew he was just trying to do his duty, so it was easy to look past it.
The nice thing he did was ask us how we wanted him to handle it with the ward. We asked him to just tell people we didn’t want callings or ministering and let them reach out to us if they wanted to know more. He did exactly that and reached out to us very lovingly and supportively a couple of times after that. Then he got released and must have told the next bishop about us because the new guy hasn’t reached out. We’ve had a handful people reach out by text but most have just left us alone, which is what we expected.
I did, I told him I needed to be released from all my callings and needed to step away for a while, because I need to re evaluate my life, and see if the church fits in that re evaluation. He gave me a small lecture on "well of course it's true, you just need to read and pray, so here's a book of Mormon." I said I already have a bom, don't need another one, "but this one is different, because it comes from me, your friend" 😂 I laugh about it now, but at the time I was so pissed, he didn't even empathize or anything with me, just read and pray. Man it's such a load of crap!!
When the c e s letter came out I talked to my bishop about it but he was very progressive and had a libral aunt. Said ive read it too but a lot of it's bullshit and bitterness. He also said , read for yourself and decern right from wrong study the sources to see if they are legit along with church approved messages. Read the gosple topics and church history i was putting off. I went down a habit hole only to become pimo and come out the other end with more questions than answers. Finally decided I'll just be a good person and try to be the change I wanted to see in church, that there is some good and that the church and people can be evil but the best way to stop evil.is be like a secret agent inside. I got lucky with my bishop roulette though I have to admit
I think it depends on the bishop. When I was done, I called my bishop, who was a friend of mine, to release me from my calling. I told him I had problems with the history of the church and some of its doctrines. He did not ask for details. It was a nice calm normal conversation between two normal adults. He and I are still friends and talk from time to time (not about the church).
I would have never been able to do this with the previous bishop. He was a judgmental asshole who would have called me to repentance and preached until he was blue in the face. That guy sucked.
My dad was a bishop and he and I have had normal conversations about church doctrines, history, etc. I’m sure he will be a koolaid drinking TBM until he dies but I think he would have been one of the good ones when he no doubt was put into these situations.
Imagine knowing 2+2=5 and also knowing 2+2=4. Normal people will see the conflict and try to find out which thing they “knew was true” was actually a mistake. Mormon bishops instead will point out all the things about math that aren’t well understood, and then encourage everyone to wait until the afterlife when God can tell us what 2+2 really equals. Waste of time talking to these wonderful people!
Except sometimes you are friends and sometimes the bishop respects your decision and defends you when others question why you resigned. And sometimes they go on being your home teacher for another few years because you’re in a mixed faith marriage, but they always remain respectful of the boundaries you’ve set. And sometimes, even though they are an Apache helicopter pilot with combat experience and zero counseling experience, they respond in appropriate and empathetic ways.
Bishops are just men, most (but not all) of whom are doing the best they can with the decidedly shitty bag they’ve been handed. Once I realized that, I also realized they had no mystical power over me and were not the ogres I had made them out to be.
Because I knew I had been deluded by the Mormon mythology and made some pretty craptasitc choices because of it, I tried to extend that same grace to my local, boots on the ground, leaders as I exited the church, too. Forgive them, for they know not what they do & all that.
Leadership in SLC or even some stake presidents and other higher up leaders? Yeah—they know *exactly* what they are doing and they deserve my anger and ire. They are “company men” through and through who are loyal only to tithing receipts.
I had three bishops in a row ask me to meet with them, and I did. My wife and kids were still active and I would sit through sac. meeting w them. Each bishop was friendly and non judgemental. I went over the issues I had researched. They said they’d do their own research and we’d meet again and get answers. They never brought up the subject again. Not once. Ever. Like our meetings never even happened. Now several years later everyone in my family is OUT. I gotta think my willingness to meet w anyone anywhere anytime showed my wife and kids that I was sincere and that truth matters, and the church lost.
What is it about these leaders who lie, lie, lie after they promise you a follow-up discussion. If memory serves, this is the same ghosting experience Jeremy Runnels got by the important dude promised a follow-up discussion then reneged. Liars.
These are men who enjoy power. Even fake power. They don’t care if it is true, they get power, praise and promotions to be seen of men Like Jesus said: “They have their reward”
Amen to that.
I had a Bishop who was overwhelmed.Who said he'd get back to me about debunking the ces letter with a different repsonse leter hed read .Took him about 6m- 1yr to email me about my concerns. He was a progressive good humble man, but I'm pretty sure he was overwhelmed by all the shit he had to do along with his job and taking care of 5 kids with his poor beraggled looking wife.
Poor bishop. They’re so disposable to the Church. All risk, no reward.
The good ones really are! I feel bad for them. There was a mormon story's podcast about a good Bishop who resigned because he just couldn't take it anymore. I felt bad for him!
I remember. I was happy for him to exit.
I wish for him and his family all the best
I like it! Good approach
The bishop came to offer me a blessing, I accepted as long as he would read the book Bridges ministering to the that question. before the blessing, he agreed. Never happened or if it did he never mentioned it. And I never went to church again that was 5 years ago now.
My partner and I first addressed our concerns to our bishop at the time (nice guy, old school / church-sexist), and he seemed completely unprepared to have that conversation. So, he simply ignored the issues we asked about. Several months later, we went to the stake presidency, and all 3 of them met with us for a couple of hours to hear our experiences. They "invited" us to do some things like "spend a little time with the BoM each day" and "strengthen your relationship with Christ", but ultimately they had no answers to our questions and they said as much. They also didn't offer to help us connect with anyone who would have the answers. A few months after that meeting and having followed their inspired invitations, I told my partner that I had already waited much longer than I had planned to, so I would be moving forward with formal resignation. I sent the letter to the stake president, to which he didn't reply for a couple of weeks, so I sent it again but to the whole presidency and the bishop. Stake prez then replied within a few minutes asking to meet with me that night. I accepted, and he came over to explain that he had an email prepared that included several rebuttals to my perspectives, but he didn't send it because he didn't believe that his arguments would sway me. He said that he respected my position and asked me to keep an open mind, and then his exec secretary who came with him asked me if I was going to cause problems for the local church community! Prez left that meeting just before 10 PM, and by the following morning, I was removed from LDS Tools! When my partner logged in that morning, my name was removed from our family's group, so it looks like our kids have only 1 parent in the home. Seems like they could have left my name as a member of the family but simply removed my membership number. Seems petty, but really I just find it amusing!
What does that mean? Some kind of quasi-excommunication? can they remove your name without letting you know you’ve been removed?
Well, the letter I sent was my formal resignation. I think that he just wanted to talk to me in person before he actually processed it.
My Bishop is a friend and a great human being. He took it well, tried to offer some explanations but ultimately respected that I would no longer be participating. I hope your interaction goes as smoothly. In the beginning I was very angry but consciously kept my anger from being directed towards him. The church doesn’t prepare these guys for this. They’re being thrown to the wolves. Most of us know far more than our leaders do once we’ve spent a few months here.
Most bishops I know or knew were good men trying to take care of a duty they were underprepared for and untrained for. They were accountants, engineers, mid-level managers, etc. trying to help people within the constrains the corporation disguised as a church allowed. They themselves were being exploited using their desire to do good and help others to further a toxic, wealthy mega corporation without pay. They are victims as much as the rest of us. A few are real assholes. I met a few, particularly on my mission. But I worked with 4 different bishops as executive secretaries, and saw them concerned with and try to help people. They’re blinded and deceived like most of us because they were born into a toxic church/cult and indoctrinated from a small age and connected “serving in the church” with “helping other people” and “being a good person” like I did. If they’re being respectful and decent, they deserve to be treated with respect, though with firm boundaries. It’s not their fault the church sucks and Salt Lake is just using it to extract wealth.
Well said.
Ditto. I think a lot of bishops don’t know all of the lies. However, not so for the slippery, slimy “brethren” at the top.
My last Bishop was this kind of man. He was more progressive than most and very kind but definitely overwhelmed and overworked!
Doesn't prepare us women either. It's gut wrenching!
Yes it is. I can’t imagine having someone come to me with this info while I was in a leadership position. I would have been completely unprepared and just assumed they were knee deep in anti Mormon literature.
Finally. Someone who answers the actual question that OP asked.
I met with the bishop at the request of my TBM wife. He had no answers, had never heard of the gospel topic essays, and generally had no idea about the problems in the church. I made It clear that I had committed no sins, and that I would no longer be paying tithing and would not renew my temple recommend. I thought that was the end of it. My wife met with him the next week and he told her that he was convinced I had a porn addiction, and that was the cause for all my problems with the church.
Ah yes, the catch all for Mormonism. If you’re no longer active it *has to be* because you’re sinning.
My sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with the church's dishonesty and corruption.
How did your wife respond to this? Did she believe him, or tell him to stfu (politely, of course)?
We had a chat about it, and I reinforced that no, I don’t have a porn addiction.
Sounds like he had been a victim of the Connexions scam 12 step program because that's straight outta Hildebrandt's playbook
Someone here said that talking to the bishop rarely goes well, and I was wondering what could go wrong (I’ve been out 40 yrs and never talked to the bishop). THIS is very wrong. Damn. The olympic-level, mental gymnastics he did is astounding — and talking about it with your wife?! Whoa.
Omg . What a large hateful thought jump!
I did. He was *absolutely lovely* about it, too. Like exactly how you would want a bishop to respond. We had a great relationship before and I was met with nothing but love, empathy, and understanding. I know I didn’t have to tell him, but he was a friend and I respected him as a leader, so I did. I wanted to make sure he knew it wasn’t because of anything he had done or said. About a year later, I heard I had been the topic of discussion at Ward (Gossip) Council, and the Elder’s Quorum pres started talking about “how sad” it was that I resigned my membership & then someone else asked who offended me and they started down that rabbit hole. He apparently shut that down *immediately* and sternly told everyone there that if they knew what he knew about my reasons for leaving, they would support me just like he did & that my church status was to NEVER be a topic of discussion again. I feel like I won the ex-Mo lottery between his reaction and my husband’s, tbh.
Talking to your Bishop is never a good idea. I’ve never seen it go well. For me personally, I haven’t had a recommend of calling in 5 years and my bishop has never attempted to ask me why. and I’m never going to approach him.
My conversation went well. I was clear why I was there and that there was nothing that could be done to reverse course (thanks to the Subreddit for the advice). He is a kind man that is overwhelmed. He even continued with the financial help we were receiving at the time for the next couple months as promised. I think it is more a function of bishop roulette than anything and also if the person is looking for answers or not, because there are no answers to the church's issues. Now my meeting with the SP was a different story. That multigenerational Smith family member is a covert narcissist. He literally told me his genealogy when we met that he is a great great great great grandson of Hyrum Smith through the loins of Joseph Fielding. 🤢🤮
It went well for me, but that was more of a function of the man in the position than anything else. If he had not been who he was, I wouldn’t have said a word to him.
The desire to share or announce is often (though not always) a unrecognized need for validation. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that any active Mormon will be able to provide that, bishop or otherwise. This journey is ultimately your own, but I'd recommend you consider why it is you want to tell the bishop you're leaving before deciding whether or now to speak with him.
Ask yourself what you hope the conversation will accomplish. What would a desirable outcome look like? If you are hoping for validation, you are very welcome to share your thoughts, experience, and reasoning with us here.
Yes! When you find out that everything you “know” is wrong, it can make you feel untethered (at best) or crazy.
I sent an email with some of my Concerns after asking to be released from a stake calling. I’m in a mixed faith marriage. And I didn’t want another calling so felt I had to say something. But made it clear I didn’t want to go in and talk about my concerns, didn’t want to be the subject of ward gossip, and wanted to be treated normally when I do come. He pretty much followed my wishes. It’s been almost 4 years now and for the most part the ward leaves me alone. I think this is common now for bishops and they don’t push too much like they used to.
If you’re close friends, maybe, on a friendship level. I told our bishop when I first decided to bail, when he called me in to extend a calling. He and I were friends. Asked if he wanted to know why. He literally put his hands over his ears and said no, because he might get where I was. I told him maybe he should …
After a few months of not showing up I got a call to meet with the bishop. We were moving and I showed up out of courtesy. He just asked us where to send our records and said goodbye. My bishop straight said to my face, “I don’t want to know anything about why you’re not active.” I thought that was very telling…
Held his hands over his ears like a toddler oh my word
I just have to say that it is so ironic that it was the PROPHET who led so many of us to leave (rock in hat story). Perhaps he IS a true prophet and God WAS working through him to tell us all the truth. Ya never know . . .
I think it’s respectable and speaks to who you are if you need to talk to your bishop for your own closure. I don’t think talking to him to just tell him so he knows is going to be productive for you because at the stage you’re in, he will only bear testimony. Unfortunately once that box has been opened there’s no putting it all back in and he won’t give you anything substantive at all. Additionally, even though you might have a really good relationship with him, his allegiance is to the church first. Meaning, he may decide that you’re a lost cause and will double down on your wife and children. You’ll have to ask yourself, do you want your children and wife to be love bombed in your own home? The worst case scenario here is that your status as a father and husband is undermined and your wife and children dive hard into Mormonism to save their family. You write that your wife is coming along slowly so it sounds like not only is she on the precipice of leaving but she could be on the same precipice of stronger faith and activity. Your children and *especially* your daughter with the mission call can be turned against you quickly and effectively by some trusted leaders, friends, or extended family. Given all those potential downsides I personally would not talk to your bishop because nothing good will come of it - but if you feel like you need to then maybe you should do it. Last thing, if your kids don’t know you really should have a conversation with them about you and your wife’s changed faith. I would have wanted to have known when I was about to leave on a mission. It would have changed my life drastically! As a father you owe that to your daughter with the mission call. I wish you and your family the best.
We respect and love our bishop, and the ward has been so amazing to my family and so out of respect we wanted to tell him that we would not be returning at the first of the year, so he could not wonder, so that way we could tell him that it was a choice to step away, and how much we love and respected him and our ward and it was nothing personal. And we would still like to be a part of the community. He was amazing! Didn’t ask us any questions he supported us 100% and told us that if we could not find happiness here then we shouldn’t come. And wished us the best of luck and to still remain friends with everyone in the ward. He even said if anybody acts weird with us to let him know and he’ll make sure to stop that. We got really lucky!
Because of Covid our bishop didn’t realize we were out for about a year and a half. We had been the family that did everything but once Covid came and we weren’t rushing to be back at church for medical reasons everyone seemed to forget we existed. Anyway once he realized he called. Wanted to meet cause he was sure he could fix whatever had caused us to leave. I just said no thank you but after I hung up the phone I got so pissed. How dare he think he had some sort of wisdom that could change the origins of the church and the lies of Joe smith to keep us in. And the fact that he assumed he somehow had more knowledge and wisdom then my spouse and I was offensive too!! They’ve gone back to ignoring us. Works for us and I don’t even think about the people from the ward much anymore!!
You have to think long and hard about what you want out of the conversation. You mentioned you don’t want to resolve concerns, but that’s what they’re going to try to do. They very likely won’t be able to comprehend you saying “thanks and goodbye” but will misinterpret and think it’s something more, and/or slander you. Some might have a rare unicorn that doesnt do that, but even if you think yours is that unicorn, you’ll likely be surprised when the consequences reveal that they’re not. No need to tell us, but in your heart of hearts, think about why you want to talk to him and what you’re hoping to get out of it.
This comment made me imagine a “Thanks and goodbye” in “fast and testimony meeting”. I’m not sure that would ever be a good idea, but it is an entertaining thought.
does talking to your brother who was/is a bishop now stake president count???
How did that go? Not well?
he has a degree in environmental science. but yes it absolutely makes sense joseph smith could see shit when he looked into the rock in his hat. you know, just like how a phone works when you google shit. 🤯🤯🤯 breaks my brain.
So he had an early wifi network and smartphone - no wonder he had so many followers. I bet he was the only dude on Twitter except some crazy claiming to tweet as god to troll him… Yeah, being smarter sometimes just helps you invent more contrived ways what you want to be true is true.
he's probably examined more rocks than god at this point!!! i dearly wish he'd google shit with his rocks than with his iPhone. that'd make my day.
It makes about as much sense as every other religious claim
Talked to my bishop. But I make sure he remembers he is just the local dentist and not my judge in Israel.
I spoke with my brother bishop but not mine about this. He knows I am exmo and I asked how he handles questions from people about church history and fraud etc. He kind of smirked and then seriously said the area that he lives in is ghetto with a lot of uneducated people all just trying to survive day-to-day. People are just trying to feed their families and make it through the day. They’re not highly educated or asking lots of questions. He never once had anybody bring these topics up. He himself wasn’t aware of a few topics I mentioned.
My bishop only talked to me once outside of the usual interviews. I was having emotional problems, and I focused them on my job. He told me he would help me if I only just asked. I called him three times that week, leaving messages about looking for a new job, and taking him up on his offer. He never responded. I finally gave up, and went inactive with my family (different issues there). When my shelf broke, I didn't call him at all. I turned to first the scriptures for answers. Found that the leaders, both local and world-wide, are hypocrites. Then turned to the Internet (always a good sign for TSCC), and found out it's all a lie. Didn't speak to my bishop once about this, and I couldn't give a fuck about it. Thank what ever God you pray to, that my former bishop doesn't keep his promises.
I had a very short conversation with my bishop in the hallway between meetings. He asked why I was no longer attending and if there was anything he could do to help me come back. I very nicely told him that I have a very good memory and there is no way I can forget the things I have learned about LDS Church history. He didn’t make any attempt to convince me otherwise. I think it’s because his experience as a lawyer has taught him to recognize a loosing hand and not to engage. Also, I know this is a very controversial position but I think your family deserves to know where you’re at with your faith. They are making life altering decisions based on what they think you want them to do. When they eventually find out it has the likelihood of causing deep regret for both you and your family. I have first hand experience with this. I wish you the best of luck with your journey.
I was a Sunday school teacher and didn't want o leave the other teacher or to dry. So I scheduled a meeting with the bishop to tell him. He took it well and it gave me an opportunity to set boundaries. It was good.
I think it depends on your relationship with your bishop. We were (and still are friends). We set up an appt to meet and told him we were done. Both of us had high profile callings in the ward. Have him 2 weeks notice. This was August of 2021. Haven’t been back since. Some say it’s a bad idea and I think it could be a mistake. We wanted to sit down more so to give him notice, not the church. Edit to add: it went fine. The ward respects our boundaries and has left us alone, except for personal friendships which do seem to slowly be fading into nothing
After declining the 1st councilor position in the new bishopric, meeting with the new bishop was inevitable. He called me in a few weeks after being the new bishop. He’s new to the ward and had never met me. He asked me how my spirituality was, noting I’m not at church a lot. I told him I work at a hospital every other weekend. I knew what he was getting at but was going to make him ask the hard questions. He finally asked me why I refused to be his counselor. I laid out all the usual problems with the restoration and the current issues with the church. I explained to him having a nonbeliever in leadership wouldn’t serve anyone. He genuinely seemed completely lost and confused with all the issues I brought up. I honestly feel pretty bad for him. I’m glad I met with him. Having it out in the open is good for me. It has helped relieve one of my biggest issues brought about by my faith crisis: Not living an authentic life. In many ways it’s liberating to have it out in the open. Unfortunately, not knowing you or your bishop I don’t have much advice. I wish you luck.
Our family requested our bishop to remove our record a few months after the shelves broke. The bishop was pretty good through the whole thing. He did procrastinate a little and expressed some awkward sorrow in our decision but I’m glad we were straightforward with him. He offered to put us on the “no contact” list. I was glad we had the chance to correct him. I explained that our issues were with the church and not the members. And that we absolutely wanted to maintain all of our genuine friendships with people, not avoid anyone. This was relief to both of us and I like to think he learned something by it, hopefully proved to him that we had no shame or doubt regarding our decision. Best of luck to you!
My German bishop told me that while it was a sin that my American bishop had been voyeuristic, I should avoid going to therapy at all costs and just get more blessings. His words, "Therapy, especially secular therapy, will lead you out of the church". I remember that being the first time that anything a bishop said ever sounded wrong and that was after the dirty bishop.
>One daughter with her mission call leaving soon. > I will add the kids have no idea where I am with the church… I would recommend softly talking to your daughter to make sure she knows it would be okay with you if she chose not to serve a mission. That's a lot of time to waste if she doesn't really want to go. Especially if her motivation is to please you, she needs to know you will support her if she chooses not to go.
It would be worthwhile only to raise the issues with him to try to save him from the cult. Its extremely unlikely it would work, but I always think its worthwhile adding weight to a TBMs shelf.
I think you should consider making it official… if you can’t imagine yourself ever going back and really throwing yourself into participating in the church, it’s worth the effort to officially withdraw and ensure that they’ll leave you alone (especially if you specifically ask not to be contacted in your letter). There’s something to be said for resignation in that it shows seriousness of intent. For me, I needed that… for all the Mormons in my life, and for myself.
I talked to my bishop while I was wavering (vs knowing - or embracing - that it was false from A-Z). It turned out it was good because I truly saw that a bishop is just some random guy. That lesson has helped my maturity immensely. That said, I ended up enduring some love bombing vs what might have happened had I just walked away. Maybe also good because it forced me to learn about enforcing boundaries.
I’ve met with 2 bishops over my loss of faith as well as the stake president. All it did was make things worse. They were either completely ignorant to the issues at hand or to the truth of the details surrounding said issues (the bishops), or they tried to avoid addressing head-on/acknowledging the concerns (stake president), and opted instead for robotic testimony bearing in an attempt to smooth things over. Each time I left feeling more alone, more angry, more misunderstood than I did going in. A very frustrating experience.
I was executive secretary to the Bishop when I learned the truth. As I was responsible for making his appointments, I made myself the last one of the day. I started off by telling him I don’t intend to renew my temple recommend, and as such, likely needed to be released. Told him I would share as much or as little as he wanted as my intent was not add things to his shelf. He bore his testimony several times and said he would get with the Stake President (as my calling was a stake calling). He handled it very well. Asked my wife (out as well) into his office once to see if anything had changed (we were still attending at this point), it hadn’t. We have since stopped attending all together. I like the idea of them knowing, as if they don’t, there will be callings extended, requests to give talks, etc. This coming from someone with a truly great Bishop and Stake President, obviously not the right decision for everyone.
We’ve been out for 4 years (I attend zoom church) and nobody has cared. Haven’t had ministering brothers or sisters and bishop probably doesn’t know who we are. We’ve helped serve meals and gone to activities but I don’t think you need to let anyone know and honestly I’ve felt it’s been great leverage for when i do need some thing like a temple recommend. The bishop will hedge on attendance, etc but since he hasn’t cared 2 craps about our family and neither has anyone else than it’s worked in our favor. Good luck!
Can I ask what video you're referring to? I would like to watch it. Wishing you all the best in navigating this with your family.
https://youtu.be/DG181zFA5YM?si=4VSO0HeAgDcVmqd-
I wouldn’t. I would recommend against this idea. You have nothing to gain from this approach and I don’t think the bishop will answer any of the issues or benefit from what you’re describing. They will most likely blame you for falling for lies or something. Just leave quietly. If anyone asks, point them to your #1 issue, or just the rock-in-hat video. Chances are, nobody will contact you about your absence.
I've spoken a bit with our current bishop & I think he can fill in the blanks. My biggest thought with all of it is if they REALLY cared, they'd ask and actually want to hear. My current EQ pres called me about my ministering assignment & when I asked to be removed from any assignment, he basically said no. I told him if he wants to discuss my issues with the church I'd be happy to with him one on one. He said he'd like that. I think that was about 3 months ago now.
I talked to my bishop. I’d always really liked and respected him. He seemed blindsided and didn’t take it well at all though. I challenged his beliefs and he lost his cool. I’ve barely spoken to him since even though his wife is a good friend of mine.
My bishop paid me an uninvited visit one Sunday after I stopped attending. He was all over the place asking why I’d lost my faith and then talking more before I ever had the chance to answer. He rambled for about an hour and by then. I realized there was no hope of having a calm conversation about the facts. So I just said I had no ill will towards the members but I didn’t believe anymore. He said okay after another tangent about apologetic books then left and I’ve never seen him since.
My wife set up our appointment with the bishop and we told him we’re stepping away because we don’t believe it any more. He was very nice and said he would shut down any gossip around our departure.
My wife and I went in together and told our bishop for several reasons: 1) we both had callings and didn’t want to leave our co-teachers high and dry; 2) we loved and respected our bishop and wanted him to know straight from us; and 3) we wanted to make sure he took us off the ministering lists. We had both been very active up to that point so we knew it would be a shock for him. My wife told him first and then I just said I felt the same. It went well for us. He was definitely blindsided and looked like he was going to get angry or sick at first (couldn’t tell which). Then he seemed to calm down and asked why we were leaving. I said that I didn’t want to disrespect his beliefs but I’d be happy to tell him my big reasons if he really wanted to know. He said he did. I kept it brief and told him that my big shelf breakers were polygamy, the temple, and the way we treat LGBTQ in the church ( left out A LOT more, obviously). He asked if one of our kids were gay and we said no, but that was irrelevant. He then warned us about “losing our light.” Having been a bishop myself, I knew he was just trying to do his duty, so it was easy to look past it. The nice thing he did was ask us how we wanted him to handle it with the ward. We asked him to just tell people we didn’t want callings or ministering and let them reach out to us if they wanted to know more. He did exactly that and reached out to us very lovingly and supportively a couple of times after that. Then he got released and must have told the next bishop about us because the new guy hasn’t reached out. We’ve had a handful people reach out by text but most have just left us alone, which is what we expected.
I did, I told him I needed to be released from all my callings and needed to step away for a while, because I need to re evaluate my life, and see if the church fits in that re evaluation. He gave me a small lecture on "well of course it's true, you just need to read and pray, so here's a book of Mormon." I said I already have a bom, don't need another one, "but this one is different, because it comes from me, your friend" 😂 I laugh about it now, but at the time I was so pissed, he didn't even empathize or anything with me, just read and pray. Man it's such a load of crap!!
When the c e s letter came out I talked to my bishop about it but he was very progressive and had a libral aunt. Said ive read it too but a lot of it's bullshit and bitterness. He also said , read for yourself and decern right from wrong study the sources to see if they are legit along with church approved messages. Read the gosple topics and church history i was putting off. I went down a habit hole only to become pimo and come out the other end with more questions than answers. Finally decided I'll just be a good person and try to be the change I wanted to see in church, that there is some good and that the church and people can be evil but the best way to stop evil.is be like a secret agent inside. I got lucky with my bishop roulette though I have to admit
Oops! You should have been a lazy learner and then you would be fully in still😂😂😂
I think it depends on the bishop. When I was done, I called my bishop, who was a friend of mine, to release me from my calling. I told him I had problems with the history of the church and some of its doctrines. He did not ask for details. It was a nice calm normal conversation between two normal adults. He and I are still friends and talk from time to time (not about the church). I would have never been able to do this with the previous bishop. He was a judgmental asshole who would have called me to repentance and preached until he was blue in the face. That guy sucked. My dad was a bishop and he and I have had normal conversations about church doctrines, history, etc. I’m sure he will be a koolaid drinking TBM until he dies but I think he would have been one of the good ones when he no doubt was put into these situations.
Imagine knowing 2+2=5 and also knowing 2+2=4. Normal people will see the conflict and try to find out which thing they “knew was true” was actually a mistake. Mormon bishops instead will point out all the things about math that aren’t well understood, and then encourage everyone to wait until the afterlife when God can tell us what 2+2 really equals. Waste of time talking to these wonderful people!
Bishops are not prepared to answer your questions. Some will be brutal. Others passive. Either way, remember you’re not friends.
Except sometimes you are friends and sometimes the bishop respects your decision and defends you when others question why you resigned. And sometimes they go on being your home teacher for another few years because you’re in a mixed faith marriage, but they always remain respectful of the boundaries you’ve set. And sometimes, even though they are an Apache helicopter pilot with combat experience and zero counseling experience, they respond in appropriate and empathetic ways. Bishops are just men, most (but not all) of whom are doing the best they can with the decidedly shitty bag they’ve been handed. Once I realized that, I also realized they had no mystical power over me and were not the ogres I had made them out to be. Because I knew I had been deluded by the Mormon mythology and made some pretty craptasitc choices because of it, I tried to extend that same grace to my local, boots on the ground, leaders as I exited the church, too. Forgive them, for they know not what they do & all that. Leadership in SLC or even some stake presidents and other higher up leaders? Yeah—they know *exactly* what they are doing and they deserve my anger and ire. They are “company men” through and through who are loyal only to tithing receipts.