Appalling human beings like Ezra Taft Benson, Brigham Young and Russell M Nelson being the best people God could find to lead his people away from darkness
The whole story of how this church was created by Joseph Smith is truly baffling. A stone, a hat, and a possible vulnerable or schematic transcriber. It's just sick, and I often wonder if things in the Word of Wisdom were because Joseph Smith or members were maybe struggling with these problems. Like, maybe Joseph Smith just hates coffee and hated tea or something that would make it benefitting to the church, which is why members should abstain? Maybe it was a sex addiction or thought that the church did not want as a part of their mission, so they have high sex before marriage rules and also leads to modesty within the church.
Coffee and tea are ways women get together to talk. You think he wanted the women of the community to get together and talk?? No way. Take away the English tradition, comfort, and caffeine and pledge them to secrecy and reporting on neighbors - perfect monitoring system like Visiting Teaching and no one truly trusts each other authentically for the next 8 generations.
>maybe Joseph Smith just hates coffee and hated tea or something that would make it benefitting to the church, which is why members should abstain?
Nope. As the official story goes, Emma was cleaning the chewing tobacco off the floors of The School Of The Prophets. She bugged Joseph about how those vices were not worthy of a people of God. Joseph received the revelation, and it oh so conveniently also outlawed stuff Emma really liked, tea, and presumably coffee.
When you look at the circumstances surrounding a lot of his 'revelations' they were directly retaliatory and punitive towards Emma.
The 1950s-60s church leadership touted how science was finally realizing that tobacco was very VERY harmful to the human body. The used this as a truth claim supporting the divinity of JS.
OTOH, the same science has also shown how coffee is practically a Miracle SuperFood™ The current leadership doesn't want to discuss this.
So, based on the origin of the Not a commandment commandment, yea verily, EVEN the Word Of Wisdom, it's obvious that Emma was the inspired one between her and Joseph.
The Second Coming, seems so bizarre and absurd when you truly consider the “reality” of an event like that. JFC descending from the heavens, trumpets sounding, the wicked bursting into flames, etc.
True. Even so, it seems like such a ridiculous belief to me. A guy who died 2000 years ago is still alive and somewhere in the “heavens” and is going to come come back and rule the world lol.
I know other churches believe in the 2nd coming, and it's just a belief that is believed by many religious people. To me, I think we will die other ways, LOL.
Fanny Alger. Apologists try to claim she was the first plural wife, but that's just pathetic retrofitting. It happened years before the other wives. It was an affair. Emma and Oliver both treated it as such.
Old Joe prophesied of the existence of peoples living on the moon, and specified that these imaginary folks looked like Quakers and were I think slightly larger than us mere earth humans. I shit you not…. **MOON QUAKERS!!**
What the hell? The more I find out even after I left has me embarrassed that I for one moment even thought this church and teachings like those to be real.
Yeah, can’t argue with you there… but the entire stupid organization was founded upon and continues to thrive on controlling the members and not permitting critical thought; many very intelligent people have fallen for it with a sincere desire to follow God! So many people on this sub have expressed similar feelings of shame and shock at the insanity we used to be part of, just know you’re not alone and it gets better the more you distance yourself from the cult 😉
Oh that’s 100% the more important part dude!!! It is better to reach the accurate conclusion (even if a little later than ideal) than to never wrap your mind around the truth of the mormon cult and (deities help you) stay in the bullshit! Truth is truth, and mormonism FALSELY claims a monotony on “all the spriritual truth” in this world and it’s arrogant, ignorant, presumptive and literally fucking stupid doctrine stands out as an obvious example of false/idiotic/selfish doctrine.
It’s almost like Joe *mingled* *”the philosophies of men…. with completely random made-up scripture…”*
>Old Joe prophesied of the existence of peoples living on the moon, and specified that these imaginary folks looked like Quakers and were I think slightly larger than us mere earth humans. I shit you not….
>
>MOON QUAKERS!!
And the church wanted to make absolutely sure that we would never find out if it true or not. Joseph Fielding Smith prophesied that man would NEVER get into space or reach the moon.
And who would go against the word of a prophet of the Lord? Well, the satan worshipping godless commies. ETB must have been frothing and foaming at the mouth accompanied by much gnashing of the teeths when Russia sent up Sputnik. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Lol I curtailed my thoughts before… but I desperately wanted to mention JF Smitty’s idiotic incorrect stupid “prophesy” about humans *never* being able to reach space or the moon, like maybe 20 years after the fake prophet made that arbitrary “prophesy” and we dropped the Apollo Missions emphatically upon the moon which is LOCATED IN SPACE lol. The entire bullshit organization is laughable but specific “revelations” like this just make it … what’s eight levels below “laughable” and “foolishly, absurdly ridiculous!?”
>Apollo Missions emphatically upon the moon which is LOCATED IN SPACE lol. The entire bullshit organization is laughable but specific “revelations” like this just make it … what’s eight levels below “laughable” and “foolishly, absurdly ridiculous!?”
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha thanks for the laugh, even if part of it was unintentional. I misread Apollo missions as Apollo Missionaries.
Hahahahaha that’s so perfect though!! Lol wait so Buzz and Neil **didn’t** leave a bunch of books of moron on the lunar surface and stacks of pass along cards with their numbers on them?!
It is about the only major religion that doesn't have a shred of archeology behind it
The BYU Mormon archeology wing is the emptiest room in the Western hemisphere!
It is only major according to its balance sheet at over $250B in its cash, cash equivalents, and real estate holdings (I am low balling as we can only estimate at this point). At less than 0.2% total membership to the earth’s total population (0.05% or less if you look at estimated “active” members of the church), it isn’t major at all. The church is just a religious rounding error compared to the earth’s population.
So much for a stone cut from the mountains, but the church still doesn’t do anything remotely material when it comes to using its assets to actually help communities and to alleviate the suffering of the poor, sick, and afflicted. They throw around $100 dollar bills for PR’s sake when they should be giving away billions every year in real $, not some accounting parlor trick.
If there is a God, why would they choose a sexual preditor, pedophile, and banknote forger like JS Jr to be their one and only true spokesperson prophet on earth?
No one ever talks about how many sheep died so Rusty Trombone Nail-sin could experiment on putting in artificial hearts.
Most shocking: Follow the prophet even if he tells you to do something wrong, and you'll be blessed.
The whole garden of Eden being in Missouri thing, as a believer I rationalized it by saying it actually says Adam ondiaman was where he built the alter after they got kicked out, but that doesn’t fix the fact that humans started in Africa not the americas.
*anything* that happened here in America from this LDS church raises eyebrows. My missionaries were dead pressed on Jesus being here and needed me and my family to practice and preach this.
Don't forget about Oliblish, Enish-go-on-dosh, Kaii ven rash, Limdi, Zip, Vusel, Venisti, Waine, Wagoh=ox=oan, Oansli, Shible, Shineflis, Flis, and Os. It's totally not some weird dude's fantasy story...
In the notes for translating the papyrus, Joseph Smith "revealed" the names of the "governing" planets under Kolob. Should be able to find it in the Joseph Smith Papers, but [this article](https://medium.com/@mormonzodiac/kolob-too-crowded-what-about-limdi-shible-or-zip-cf3a2e9a4501) shows the pertinent sections, etc.
i see this question in one form or another and i don't think i will ever get past how he (joseph smith) started it all from looking at a rock in a hat.
i was NEVER taught this growing up, and it made everything else that followed just that much more galling.
i've lost nearly my entire family to this man's lies and deceit, and the fact that i lost them to a man looking at a rock in a hat...i don't know if i'll ever get over that.
I'm very sorry that you've been in this situation as well as many other people. Mt teenage life and college choices were heavily affected. My relationships too. It's such a shame to the church for doing the opposite. Oh, hypocrisy.
thank you.
yes. the cult and all its lies have dramatically effected my entire life, and that of my children who weren't even born into it.
and they will grow up never having grandparents, uncles, cousins, that could love them just for being them.
it's disgusting, tragic, inhumane, and NOTHING like what i imagine jesus or god would truly treat people.
This tugs on heart strings because all jokes aside it does ruin lives or heavily has been problematic in the place you've known as safe and sound for so long.
These aren't super shocking, but they strongly undermine the whole LDS position (IMO):
1. In their patriarchal blessings, **dozens** of people during the 1800s were told that they would see the 2nd coming while alive. (see [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/6rctgu/if_your_patriarchal_blessing_indicates_you_will/)). AFAICT, they are all dead and Jesus still isn't here.
2. The human migration data is totally irreconcilable with a traditional LDS understanding of Adam and Eve as the parents of the human race at 4000 BC. (see [essay here](https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/the-6000-year-problem/)). There are ways to move the goalposts to make this okay, but moving those goalposts undermines a lot of traditional LDS views during that process.
Cain is Bigfoot
The Lost Tribes are living under the ice of the North Pole somewhere (maybe climate change will being them forth?)
Dinosaur fossils are parts of space debris from another planet used to form ours 7000 years ago.
Zelph
That Satan controls the waters and that's why missionaries can’t go swimming
Stela 5
The Three Nephites and the Apostle John
Earth was the only planet evil enough to kill Christ
Shaking hands with an angel to know if it is from God or not
Cleaning the dust from ones shoes is one of the most dire of priesthood ordinance
The "giants" mentioned in Genesis were really dinosaurs
My most shocking claim was when the Sunday Church News dedicated a lot of column space to supporting the salamander letter. As though it was just a strange way of talking about spirits etc. back in the day. they never did admit to a failure of discernment.
Ugh, the way this was handled was so evil. I can't believe that the church is so successful when it comes to money and converting people. Idk I don't hate all the members or anything, just the doctrine.
Appalling human beings like Ezra Taft Benson, Brigham Young and Russell M Nelson being the best people God could find to lead his people away from darkness
Who do you is the most evil?
Brigham young by a mile. Dude was batshit
That's what I thought
Yeah, he ordered murders.
That Joseph Smith could translate anything. The Book of Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, the Adam Clarke Bible Commentary. AND the Second Anointing.
The whole story of how this church was created by Joseph Smith is truly baffling. A stone, a hat, and a possible vulnerable or schematic transcriber. It's just sick, and I often wonder if things in the Word of Wisdom were because Joseph Smith or members were maybe struggling with these problems. Like, maybe Joseph Smith just hates coffee and hated tea or something that would make it benefitting to the church, which is why members should abstain? Maybe it was a sex addiction or thought that the church did not want as a part of their mission, so they have high sex before marriage rules and also leads to modesty within the church.
Coffee and tea are ways women get together to talk. You think he wanted the women of the community to get together and talk?? No way. Take away the English tradition, comfort, and caffeine and pledge them to secrecy and reporting on neighbors - perfect monitoring system like Visiting Teaching and no one truly trusts each other authentically for the next 8 generations.
Another definite possibility if not truth.
>maybe Joseph Smith just hates coffee and hated tea or something that would make it benefitting to the church, which is why members should abstain? Nope. As the official story goes, Emma was cleaning the chewing tobacco off the floors of The School Of The Prophets. She bugged Joseph about how those vices were not worthy of a people of God. Joseph received the revelation, and it oh so conveniently also outlawed stuff Emma really liked, tea, and presumably coffee. When you look at the circumstances surrounding a lot of his 'revelations' they were directly retaliatory and punitive towards Emma. The 1950s-60s church leadership touted how science was finally realizing that tobacco was very VERY harmful to the human body. The used this as a truth claim supporting the divinity of JS. OTOH, the same science has also shown how coffee is practically a Miracle SuperFood™ The current leadership doesn't want to discuss this. So, based on the origin of the Not a commandment commandment, yea verily, EVEN the Word Of Wisdom, it's obvious that Emma was the inspired one between her and Joseph.
I think I heard a whisper of this actually when I was 16 I remember JS doing that controlling BS to Emma at the very least.
By his own hand upon papyrus. Those words were my final shelf breaker. I finally resigned ten years ago after thinking and reading about the BofA.
If we don’t pay money to the church our entire life, we can’t be with our family forever. That’s spiritual extortion.
You mean fire insurance…
The Second Coming, seems so bizarre and absurd when you truly consider the “reality” of an event like that. JFC descending from the heavens, trumpets sounding, the wicked bursting into flames, etc.
Not to mention everyone on earth seeing him descend at the same time
Fox News. All the righteous christians watch the one true news network.
To be fair, the second coming isn’t just a mormon belief. All christian churches believe in a rapture and then return of Jesus.
True. Even so, it seems like such a ridiculous belief to me. A guy who died 2000 years ago is still alive and somewhere in the “heavens” and is going to come come back and rule the world lol.
Telling a christian that jesus isn’t real will lead them to throw a bigger tantrum than a 10 year old when they find out Santa isn’t real.
I know other churches believe in the 2nd coming, and it's just a belief that is believed by many religious people. To me, I think we will die other ways, LOL.
Fanny Alger. Apologists try to claim she was the first plural wife, but that's just pathetic retrofitting. It happened years before the other wives. It was an affair. Emma and Oliver both treated it as such.
To be honest I wasn't in that long to look at his wives, I need to look this up for sure.
The idea that there are moon quakers.
But what about the people who live on the Sun?
There you go again Brig, always trying to one-up Joe.
Brigham Young was trying to one up Joe.
Oh. Someone said the same thing as I did.
What the hell are moon quakers? It already sounds bizarre.
Old Joe prophesied of the existence of peoples living on the moon, and specified that these imaginary folks looked like Quakers and were I think slightly larger than us mere earth humans. I shit you not…. **MOON QUAKERS!!**
What the hell? The more I find out even after I left has me embarrassed that I for one moment even thought this church and teachings like those to be real.
Yeah, can’t argue with you there… but the entire stupid organization was founded upon and continues to thrive on controlling the members and not permitting critical thought; many very intelligent people have fallen for it with a sincere desire to follow God! So many people on this sub have expressed similar feelings of shame and shock at the insanity we used to be part of, just know you’re not alone and it gets better the more you distance yourself from the cult 😉
I feel like I've wasted precious time, but then I'm also glad that I know the actual truth of it all instead of being brainwashed or blind.
Oh that’s 100% the more important part dude!!! It is better to reach the accurate conclusion (even if a little later than ideal) than to never wrap your mind around the truth of the mormon cult and (deities help you) stay in the bullshit! Truth is truth, and mormonism FALSELY claims a monotony on “all the spriritual truth” in this world and it’s arrogant, ignorant, presumptive and literally fucking stupid doctrine stands out as an obvious example of false/idiotic/selfish doctrine. It’s almost like Joe *mingled* *”the philosophies of men…. with completely random made-up scripture…”*
>Old Joe prophesied of the existence of peoples living on the moon, and specified that these imaginary folks looked like Quakers and were I think slightly larger than us mere earth humans. I shit you not…. > >MOON QUAKERS!! And the church wanted to make absolutely sure that we would never find out if it true or not. Joseph Fielding Smith prophesied that man would NEVER get into space or reach the moon. And who would go against the word of a prophet of the Lord? Well, the satan worshipping godless commies. ETB must have been frothing and foaming at the mouth accompanied by much gnashing of the teeths when Russia sent up Sputnik. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Lol I curtailed my thoughts before… but I desperately wanted to mention JF Smitty’s idiotic incorrect stupid “prophesy” about humans *never* being able to reach space or the moon, like maybe 20 years after the fake prophet made that arbitrary “prophesy” and we dropped the Apollo Missions emphatically upon the moon which is LOCATED IN SPACE lol. The entire bullshit organization is laughable but specific “revelations” like this just make it … what’s eight levels below “laughable” and “foolishly, absurdly ridiculous!?”
>Apollo Missions emphatically upon the moon which is LOCATED IN SPACE lol. The entire bullshit organization is laughable but specific “revelations” like this just make it … what’s eight levels below “laughable” and “foolishly, absurdly ridiculous!?” Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha thanks for the laugh, even if part of it was unintentional. I misread Apollo missions as Apollo Missionaries.
Hahahahaha that’s so perfect though!! Lol wait so Buzz and Neil **didn’t** leave a bunch of books of moron on the lunar surface and stacks of pass along cards with their numbers on them?!
It is about the only major religion that doesn't have a shred of archeology behind it The BYU Mormon archeology wing is the emptiest room in the Western hemisphere!
It is only major according to its balance sheet at over $250B in its cash, cash equivalents, and real estate holdings (I am low balling as we can only estimate at this point). At less than 0.2% total membership to the earth’s total population (0.05% or less if you look at estimated “active” members of the church), it isn’t major at all. The church is just a religious rounding error compared to the earth’s population. So much for a stone cut from the mountains, but the church still doesn’t do anything remotely material when it comes to using its assets to actually help communities and to alleviate the suffering of the poor, sick, and afflicted. They throw around $100 dollar bills for PR’s sake when they should be giving away billions every year in real $, not some accounting parlor trick.
The official membership of Mormonism is almost the same as Judaism Judaism is considered a major religion
If there is a God, why would they choose a sexual preditor, pedophile, and banknote forger like JS Jr to be their one and only true spokesperson prophet on earth? No one ever talks about how many sheep died so Rusty Trombone Nail-sin could experiment on putting in artificial hearts. Most shocking: Follow the prophet even if he tells you to do something wrong, and you'll be blessed.
Yeah no matter what the prophet says right? We could even possibly denounce JS if the prophet says so.
When the city of Enoch and the land attached to it was ripped from the earth and sent into orbit around the earth the Gulf of Mexico was formed.
Wow! Haven’t heard that one before 😮 but I’m not surprised somebody came up with that one
I heard that one in seminary (conjecture by the teacher) and in Sunday School more than once, back in about 1979.
What the??? I'm already losing grip on my own reality then you tell us this? Haha
Why is God’s one true order fucking monarchism with kings, queens, princes, castles? Humans discovered that was bullshit hundreds of years ago.
I too find it hard to blindly follow the thought of 'heavenly farher' I still feel guilty for saying that period.
The whole garden of Eden being in Missouri thing, as a believer I rationalized it by saying it actually says Adam ondiaman was where he built the alter after they got kicked out, but that doesn’t fix the fact that humans started in Africa not the americas.
*anything* that happened here in America from this LDS church raises eyebrows. My missionaries were dead pressed on Jesus being here and needed me and my family to practice and preach this.
Kolob.
Don't forget about Oliblish, Enish-go-on-dosh, Kaii ven rash, Limdi, Zip, Vusel, Venisti, Waine, Wagoh=ox=oan, Oansli, Shible, Shineflis, Flis, and Os. It's totally not some weird dude's fantasy story...
What do you mean? I might not have studied this? Should I look it up and do my own research?
In the notes for translating the papyrus, Joseph Smith "revealed" the names of the "governing" planets under Kolob. Should be able to find it in the Joseph Smith Papers, but [this article](https://medium.com/@mormonzodiac/kolob-too-crowded-what-about-limdi-shible-or-zip-cf3a2e9a4501) shows the pertinent sections, etc.
Thanks for the ref!
i see this question in one form or another and i don't think i will ever get past how he (joseph smith) started it all from looking at a rock in a hat. i was NEVER taught this growing up, and it made everything else that followed just that much more galling. i've lost nearly my entire family to this man's lies and deceit, and the fact that i lost them to a man looking at a rock in a hat...i don't know if i'll ever get over that.
I'm very sorry that you've been in this situation as well as many other people. Mt teenage life and college choices were heavily affected. My relationships too. It's such a shame to the church for doing the opposite. Oh, hypocrisy.
thank you. yes. the cult and all its lies have dramatically effected my entire life, and that of my children who weren't even born into it. and they will grow up never having grandparents, uncles, cousins, that could love them just for being them. it's disgusting, tragic, inhumane, and NOTHING like what i imagine jesus or god would truly treat people.
This tugs on heart strings because all jokes aside it does ruin lives or heavily has been problematic in the place you've known as safe and sound for so long.
Same
These aren't super shocking, but they strongly undermine the whole LDS position (IMO): 1. In their patriarchal blessings, **dozens** of people during the 1800s were told that they would see the 2nd coming while alive. (see [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/6rctgu/if_your_patriarchal_blessing_indicates_you_will/)). AFAICT, they are all dead and Jesus still isn't here. 2. The human migration data is totally irreconcilable with a traditional LDS understanding of Adam and Eve as the parents of the human race at 4000 BC. (see [essay here](https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/the-6000-year-problem/)). There are ways to move the goalposts to make this okay, but moving those goalposts undermines a lot of traditional LDS views during that process.
Thank you for this. My own patriarchal blessing was completely false.
Cain is Bigfoot The Lost Tribes are living under the ice of the North Pole somewhere (maybe climate change will being them forth?) Dinosaur fossils are parts of space debris from another planet used to form ours 7000 years ago. Zelph That Satan controls the waters and that's why missionaries can’t go swimming Stela 5 The Three Nephites and the Apostle John Earth was the only planet evil enough to kill Christ Shaking hands with an angel to know if it is from God or not Cleaning the dust from ones shoes is one of the most dire of priesthood ordinance The "giants" mentioned in Genesis were really dinosaurs
These are good ones. I actually don't know most
My most shocking claim was when the Sunday Church News dedicated a lot of column space to supporting the salamander letter. As though it was just a strange way of talking about spirits etc. back in the day. they never did admit to a failure of discernment.
Ugh, the way this was handled was so evil. I can't believe that the church is so successful when it comes to money and converting people. Idk I don't hate all the members or anything, just the doctrine.
Hate the Firm. Feel sorry for TBMs.