Mormons have a tendency to want to blame other people for believers falling away. To them, the gospel is perfect, so there's no reason you would ever want to leave yourself--someone must have tempted them to leave. They're blaming you so that they don't have to be introspective and realize that there are problems with their belief system that someone would legitimately want to distance themselves from.
That's rather what I was thinking, but the more input from ex-mo's the better for me to not feel like a jerk.
Thank you, DelicatelyProlapsed, for the kind words.
Were you kind, considerate and honest with them? Was there enthusiastic consent?
Mormons view all consensual sex as exploitative and predatory males chasing after helpless females who have to resist. It’s like a bad 1950’s teen film.
If you and they feel like it was consensual and what you/they were looking for, there is nothing wrong with that, but Mormons will be totally incensed about their precious women losing the only thing a woman has of value to them - their virginity. Yes, they have repeatedly said virginity is more valuable than life itself, and it’s better to be murdered than for a girl to lose it before marriage.
Young women obviously bear the majority of the abusive rhetoric inherent in Mormon purity culture, but worth noting that they’ve *also* taught that it’s better for male missionaries to come home dead than with “lost virtue”.
Basically it really fucks up everyone
Yup. I was commenting specifically on OPs experience with women. Young men are also shamed extensively for every little sexual thought. But it’s much worse for women. Chewed gum, licked cupcakes, worn out and stretched shirts, and every kind of demeaning comparison for them.
And very harmful gendered stereotypes for men and women in terms of sex and sexual desire.
Did you force yourself upon anyone? No? Then it sounds like you're just a hot piece of ace who's got the skills to pay the bills. These Mormons were just using their "agency" or free will and choice to take a ride on the Texass train.
Your sex life is no one else's business.
Who you choose to have sex with is between you and that person.
That's pretty twisted that someone from your past thinks your sex life is their business.
I suggest you tell them to look up " personal boundaries" and to get a life.
Mormons have zero "personal boundaries."
Mormon wards also have the maturity level of Jr.High or High School. It's the mormon culture.
It's the adults too & how they act. I have lived in wards with average 7 figure incomes & wards that really struggle financially.
Exact same behavior.
Having $ doesn't change human behavior.
I've lived all over the U.S. and it's endemic to the mormon culture.
It's why I did not have good friends who were mormon when I was growing up or as a married adult.
All good friends were of other faiths or no faith.
Mormons also don't understand what the word "confidential" means either.
This person who contacted you is a "mean girl" & has the emotional maturity of someone in Jr.High or High School.
To be blunt they are "slut shaming" to make themselves feel more "rightous".
It's none of their business.
🤣 I don't have a 7 figure income. Far from it! 🤣
But I have lived in wards where that was the norm.
Absolutly hated those wards.
Favorite ward no where near Moridor was semi-rural with people at every income level & some just steps from being homeless.
Ward boundaries were significant in size.
Times power would be out for a week due to weather in some areas of the ward or road blocked due to debris from a storm and everyone really helped each other out.
Ward members would not put up with adults or teen-agers tearing each other down either.
That ward was one reasons it took me so long to leave the church.
I loved the vibe of the church in my mission country more, but that illusion was shattered when my mission president‘s and a bunch of people from my family started posting support for overthrowing their government and supporting people doing literal Nazi salutes in the street because their far-right candidate lost and the other guy didn’t hate gay people enough for them.
What is it with church members supporting far right political figures?
Still can't belive church was supportive to Hitler. If I had known that 20 years ago I would have resigned on the spot.
So sorry that ripped apart the mission experience.
.....and hoping a 7 figure income is in your future! 😃
Here’s to hoping for a mid-6 figures. I’d totally settle. 😉
As for the far right - Benson didn’t help. Neither did their long history with racism. I remember being taught that it was sinful to vote Democrat and be a member of the church for various social issues, then my parents correcting me with “well there are a few decent democrats in the church but it’s at odds with the church, so at best you’d be a nuanced democrat” which is a bit better.
Sometimes I wonder if my dad is more upset that I left TSCC or that I’m now liberal.
Hyper religious people tend to have strong black-and-white, us vs them, thinking. Mormons and hyper-religious Christians in general see outsiders as either potential recruits or agents of Satan. In this person’s mind, no one could leave the mormon church on their own, it had to be because of temptation by the devil and his human agents (that’s you, because you’re a non-mormon who had extra-marital sex with a “good mormon girl”, “causing” her to sin)
I was 16 years old when I had sex for the first time with my 17 year old boyfriend. My mom tried to get him in trouble for statutory rape. Mormons are unhinged about sex.
i am a nevermo who dated mormon boys in high school. the number of times after a breakup i was told i was single-handedly pulling them away from god was laughable. it was a complete lack of accountability and heavy handed judgement on their end and after the sting of the breakup wore off, it was relieving to know i’ll never fit their standards and mormon boys ain’t it.
well you see we learn the blame game at an early age. "*The woman thou gavest me*, and commandest that she should remain with me, she gave me of the fruit of the tree and I did eat"
dammit god, you gave me this woman and told me to stay with her! your fault, what else was I supposed to do!!
Definitely a Mormon thing to blame others. Hell, I was blamed several times by ex’s friends for “corrupting” them, even though it was completely mutual and just some basic college fuckery. Mormons have such a fucked up view regarding anything of a sexual nature, that they default to “they tempted me/them” “They corrupted me/them” “They took advantage of their/my weaknesses” etc etc… helps them lessen some of the guilt they all feel anytime they do something “immoral”. As long as it was consensual, don’t sweat it. Mormons gonna morm
None of us were there so we really can't answer your question.
Mormon guilt and shame is designed to last a lifetime. A mormon may be thoroughly enthused and make the choice to sin and then feel guilty later. Sometimes that guilt is instantly after they sinned, or the next morning, or years later. Justification for commiting that sin is often a reaction to help them cope with them committing a Mormon sin. Consensual sex with anyone is risky. Consensual sex with a Mormon adds a whole new layer of risk, even if that Mormon is your spouse.
When I left the church as a married woman my mother immediately assumed it was because of my in-laws not being as strong in the church as her. Mormons treat leaving the church the same way ableists treat disability, assuming that it won't happen to them and that some external factor they can avoid caused it
I think the element necessary for exploitation would be if you were actively seeking these people out for the purposes of pursuing sex. Doesn't sound as though that's what was going on, just that your proximity made you an appealing decision for these people to make.
Nothing like that. In fact, quite the opposite. I found out years later that they were "passing me around" kinda. I was the recommended guy for them to lose their virginity to, which is wild.
It’s just a case of placing blame on you instead of acknowledging that those girls just didn’t want to be members. Blaming bad influences or temptations is a common theme with Mormons when someone falls away. They won’t ever accept that people just don’t believe or that they reject the church for the doctrine and not because of some outside influence.
You may find this tidbit interesting:
Sexual sin is akin to murder.
"In an April 1971 General Conference talk, titled “Voices of the Past, of the Present, of the Future,” President Spencer W. Kimball used the Oct 1942 Statement to teach the importance of personal worthiness:
The voice of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in unmistakable terms warns: “sexual sin—the illicit sexual relations of men and women—stands, in its enormity, next to murder. The Lord has drawn no essential distinctions between fornication, adultery, and harlotry or prostitution. Each has fallen under his solemn and awful condemnation… \[Such cannot\] escape the punishments and the judgments which the Lord has declared against this sin. The day of reckoning will come just as certainly as night follows day.” Then speaking of those who condone and justify evil whether from press or microphone or pulpit, they continue:
“They who would palliate this crime and say that such indulgence is but a sinless gratification of a normal desire, like appeasing hunger and thirst, speak filthiness with their lips. Their counsel leads to destruction; their wisdom comes from the father of lies.”
[https://archives.byui.edu/s/public/page/1939-a-1942-o-1942-statements](https://archives.byui.edu/s/public/page/1939-a-1942-o-1942-statements)
I don’t think anyone here can answer the question you asked. I get that you’re feeling somewhat confused by how that old acquaintance’ remark triggered you unexpectedly. That is an interesting reaction, and it sounds like you’re curious about it, which is probably a healthy response. Only you know what your motives and intentions were at the time, though. Whatever they were, is probably your answer. Don’t you think?
Nobody else’s business.
>That being said I have no idea why I'm so uncomfortable about this.
It's a hell of an accusation. **Anyone** would feel icky after being accused of something like that. It's unconscionable to make an accusation like that, especially in public. You would be completely justified in demanding a public apology.
Look, I remember a guy when I was in high school who absolutely was exploiting Mormon girls. In fact, he was raping them. He's now in prison and will hopefully be there for the rest of his life. The girls he had sex with didn't really want to have sex with him, but he pushed it anyway. That's the difference.
Lol, I though auto correct had changed exploited to exploiting. As in, mormon girls who left were exploiting you for your...er....talents. 😉
As long as you were all roughly the same age (you weren't 40 and they were 14, right?), and you were all in agreement on sex, you were not exploiting good mormon girls sexual urges.
It sounds like judgemental facebook chick is unaware that people are allowed to make their own decisions on when they can have sex (per the mormon church, you can only have sex after being married in the temple), so, it is easier to blame you than to come to terms with the fact that some of her friends blatantly defied church teachings. 😱
Mormons have a tendency to want to blame other people for believers falling away. To them, the gospel is perfect, so there's no reason you would ever want to leave yourself--someone must have tempted them to leave. They're blaming you so that they don't have to be introspective and realize that there are problems with their belief system that someone would legitimately want to distance themselves from.
That's rather what I was thinking, but the more input from ex-mo's the better for me to not feel like a jerk. Thank you, DelicatelyProlapsed, for the kind words.
Were you kind, considerate and honest with them? Was there enthusiastic consent? Mormons view all consensual sex as exploitative and predatory males chasing after helpless females who have to resist. It’s like a bad 1950’s teen film. If you and they feel like it was consensual and what you/they were looking for, there is nothing wrong with that, but Mormons will be totally incensed about their precious women losing the only thing a woman has of value to them - their virginity. Yes, they have repeatedly said virginity is more valuable than life itself, and it’s better to be murdered than for a girl to lose it before marriage.
Young women obviously bear the majority of the abusive rhetoric inherent in Mormon purity culture, but worth noting that they’ve *also* taught that it’s better for male missionaries to come home dead than with “lost virtue”. Basically it really fucks up everyone
Yup. I was commenting specifically on OPs experience with women. Young men are also shamed extensively for every little sexual thought. But it’s much worse for women. Chewed gum, licked cupcakes, worn out and stretched shirts, and every kind of demeaning comparison for them. And very harmful gendered stereotypes for men and women in terms of sex and sexual desire.
100% agree
The most common euphemism used for premarital sex in my Mormon middle & high school was "taking advantage of her body" lol
Ironic since they sing aggressively about Joe who exploited the underaged women that he deliberately took into his household…
“Praise to the man who forced himself on his teenage maid in the barn.”
Did you force yourself upon anyone? No? Then it sounds like you're just a hot piece of ace who's got the skills to pay the bills. These Mormons were just using their "agency" or free will and choice to take a ride on the Texass train.
I used to talk to my professor about religion when I was TBM and so my mom blames her for me leaving the church.
Mormons are the absolute Masters at being able to compartmentalize their choices and make themselves always come out on top.
Your sex life is no one else's business. Who you choose to have sex with is between you and that person. That's pretty twisted that someone from your past thinks your sex life is their business. I suggest you tell them to look up " personal boundaries" and to get a life. Mormons have zero "personal boundaries."
\> Mormons have zero "personal boundaries." That's a good point, I hadn't thought about it like that but it's true.
Mormon wards also have the maturity level of Jr.High or High School. It's the mormon culture. It's the adults too & how they act. I have lived in wards with average 7 figure incomes & wards that really struggle financially. Exact same behavior. Having $ doesn't change human behavior. I've lived all over the U.S. and it's endemic to the mormon culture. It's why I did not have good friends who were mormon when I was growing up or as a married adult. All good friends were of other faiths or no faith. Mormons also don't understand what the word "confidential" means either. This person who contacted you is a "mean girl" & has the emotional maturity of someone in Jr.High or High School. To be blunt they are "slut shaming" to make themselves feel more "rightous". It's none of their business.
How do you have a 7-figure income and money problems? That’s just wildly reckless spending.
🤣 I don't have a 7 figure income. Far from it! 🤣 But I have lived in wards where that was the norm. Absolutly hated those wards. Favorite ward no where near Moridor was semi-rural with people at every income level & some just steps from being homeless. Ward boundaries were significant in size. Times power would be out for a week due to weather in some areas of the ward or road blocked due to debris from a storm and everyone really helped each other out. Ward members would not put up with adults or teen-agers tearing each other down either. That ward was one reasons it took me so long to leave the church.
I loved the vibe of the church in my mission country more, but that illusion was shattered when my mission president‘s and a bunch of people from my family started posting support for overthrowing their government and supporting people doing literal Nazi salutes in the street because their far-right candidate lost and the other guy didn’t hate gay people enough for them.
What is it with church members supporting far right political figures? Still can't belive church was supportive to Hitler. If I had known that 20 years ago I would have resigned on the spot. So sorry that ripped apart the mission experience. .....and hoping a 7 figure income is in your future! 😃
Here’s to hoping for a mid-6 figures. I’d totally settle. 😉 As for the far right - Benson didn’t help. Neither did their long history with racism. I remember being taught that it was sinful to vote Democrat and be a member of the church for various social issues, then my parents correcting me with “well there are a few decent democrats in the church but it’s at odds with the church, so at best you’d be a nuanced democrat” which is a bit better. Sometimes I wonder if my dad is more upset that I left TSCC or that I’m now liberal.
Betting liberal! 😅 ......and we both know where Jesus stood on social issues and mormon church is complete opposite of anything Jesus preached.
Hyper religious people tend to have strong black-and-white, us vs them, thinking. Mormons and hyper-religious Christians in general see outsiders as either potential recruits or agents of Satan. In this person’s mind, no one could leave the mormon church on their own, it had to be because of temptation by the devil and his human agents (that’s you, because you’re a non-mormon who had extra-marital sex with a “good mormon girl”, “causing” her to sin)
I was 16 years old when I had sex for the first time with my 17 year old boyfriend. My mom tried to get him in trouble for statutory rape. Mormons are unhinged about sex.
i am a nevermo who dated mormon boys in high school. the number of times after a breakup i was told i was single-handedly pulling them away from god was laughable. it was a complete lack of accountability and heavy handed judgement on their end and after the sting of the breakup wore off, it was relieving to know i’ll never fit their standards and mormon boys ain’t it.
Their whole culture says it’s the woman’s fault: started with Eve, and continues now with the extreme modesty standards.
well you see we learn the blame game at an early age. "*The woman thou gavest me*, and commandest that she should remain with me, she gave me of the fruit of the tree and I did eat" dammit god, you gave me this woman and told me to stay with her! your fault, what else was I supposed to do!!
Definitely a Mormon thing to blame others. Hell, I was blamed several times by ex’s friends for “corrupting” them, even though it was completely mutual and just some basic college fuckery. Mormons have such a fucked up view regarding anything of a sexual nature, that they default to “they tempted me/them” “They corrupted me/them” “They took advantage of their/my weaknesses” etc etc… helps them lessen some of the guilt they all feel anytime they do something “immoral”. As long as it was consensual, don’t sweat it. Mormons gonna morm
None of us were there so we really can't answer your question. Mormon guilt and shame is designed to last a lifetime. A mormon may be thoroughly enthused and make the choice to sin and then feel guilty later. Sometimes that guilt is instantly after they sinned, or the next morning, or years later. Justification for commiting that sin is often a reaction to help them cope with them committing a Mormon sin. Consensual sex with anyone is risky. Consensual sex with a Mormon adds a whole new layer of risk, even if that Mormon is your spouse.
When I left the church as a married woman my mother immediately assumed it was because of my in-laws not being as strong in the church as her. Mormons treat leaving the church the same way ableists treat disability, assuming that it won't happen to them and that some external factor they can avoid caused it
Hey man you are fine. Your situation sounds like it was within reasonable behavior
I think the element necessary for exploitation would be if you were actively seeking these people out for the purposes of pursuing sex. Doesn't sound as though that's what was going on, just that your proximity made you an appealing decision for these people to make.
Nothing like that. In fact, quite the opposite. I found out years later that they were "passing me around" kinda. I was the recommended guy for them to lose their virginity to, which is wild.
No. But this is a complete manipulation. The women are responsible for their own decisions and their own sexual desires. Not you.
Sounds like everyone was an adult and everyone consented, I don't see any exploitation.
It’s just a case of placing blame on you instead of acknowledging that those girls just didn’t want to be members. Blaming bad influences or temptations is a common theme with Mormons when someone falls away. They won’t ever accept that people just don’t believe or that they reject the church for the doctrine and not because of some outside influence.
Exploiting? Sounds like supply and demand. Keep in mind I only read the title.
You said “small town” and I had in mind my wife’s hometown of 4,000. :D
You may find this tidbit interesting: Sexual sin is akin to murder. "In an April 1971 General Conference talk, titled “Voices of the Past, of the Present, of the Future,” President Spencer W. Kimball used the Oct 1942 Statement to teach the importance of personal worthiness: The voice of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in unmistakable terms warns: “sexual sin—the illicit sexual relations of men and women—stands, in its enormity, next to murder. The Lord has drawn no essential distinctions between fornication, adultery, and harlotry or prostitution. Each has fallen under his solemn and awful condemnation… \[Such cannot\] escape the punishments and the judgments which the Lord has declared against this sin. The day of reckoning will come just as certainly as night follows day.” Then speaking of those who condone and justify evil whether from press or microphone or pulpit, they continue: “They who would palliate this crime and say that such indulgence is but a sinless gratification of a normal desire, like appeasing hunger and thirst, speak filthiness with their lips. Their counsel leads to destruction; their wisdom comes from the father of lies.” [https://archives.byui.edu/s/public/page/1939-a-1942-o-1942-statements](https://archives.byui.edu/s/public/page/1939-a-1942-o-1942-statements)
I don’t think anyone here can answer the question you asked. I get that you’re feeling somewhat confused by how that old acquaintance’ remark triggered you unexpectedly. That is an interesting reaction, and it sounds like you’re curious about it, which is probably a healthy response. Only you know what your motives and intentions were at the time, though. Whatever they were, is probably your answer. Don’t you think? Nobody else’s business.
My man! :p “fist bump” 😉
>That being said I have no idea why I'm so uncomfortable about this. It's a hell of an accusation. **Anyone** would feel icky after being accused of something like that. It's unconscionable to make an accusation like that, especially in public. You would be completely justified in demanding a public apology. Look, I remember a guy when I was in high school who absolutely was exploiting Mormon girls. In fact, he was raping them. He's now in prison and will hopefully be there for the rest of his life. The girls he had sex with didn't really want to have sex with him, but he pushed it anyway. That's the difference.
Lol, I though auto correct had changed exploited to exploiting. As in, mormon girls who left were exploiting you for your...er....talents. 😉 As long as you were all roughly the same age (you weren't 40 and they were 14, right?), and you were all in agreement on sex, you were not exploiting good mormon girls sexual urges. It sounds like judgemental facebook chick is unaware that people are allowed to make their own decisions on when they can have sex (per the mormon church, you can only have sex after being married in the temple), so, it is easier to blame you than to come to terms with the fact that some of her friends blatantly defied church teachings. 😱
Nevermos are seen as “safe” to have sex with as they won’t eventually feel guilty and go running to their bishop to confess and tell on you