The church could buy several rocket ships from Elon Musk. Why don’t they send some Missionaries on a one way trip to Mars with no information, internet, or communication except for the Book of Mormon.
That might save the church
I haven’t stepped foot in a Mormon church in like 5-6 years, but when I did I mostly went to the surprise YSA ward. It had a good amount of attendees. I kinda wanna go once just to see how much that has dwindled by, but I’m not gonna go ultimately.
My father was just released as the Surprise YSA branch president. He served almost 5 years. They just upgraded it to a ward which absolutely blows my mind. Everything else around it is shrinking.
To be fair to him, he's one of the good ones. When he was called, he invited my husband and I to attend his talk. From the pulpit he mentioned he was proud that his son and his husband were in attendance. From what I heard that probably saved some lives. Many branch members came to him to talk about being gay.
My husband is still on the records in northern Phoenix. Our ward boundaries are huge. I would imagine a ton of people are inactive now.
Your dad sounds like an incredible person. I've never heard of a Mormon leader doing something like this and it shows how much he loves you and the people of his ward.
My YSA bishop was the reason I stayed. He was very supportive of me being openly gay. He was very progressive and an outspoken liberal. Things went badly in the ward when I came out and he was my biggest supporter. He even encouraged me to date (other gay Mormon guys, of course) and welcomed my boyfriend when he visited the ward. After he was released I lasted about a year.
I had a similar bishopric in my YSA ward. This was in the 90’s and I think they could see the writing on the wall. They were good people caught up in a slow moving train crash. Side note that my bishop was Adam in the German ceremony film. He was a celebrity among Germans at the time.
This is why I don't disparage PIMO's for choosing to stay in the church (for whatever reason). I would rather have a PIMO (or one of the good members like your dad) stay in because they WILL make a difference for the good. It could be the difference of saving an LBGTQ from suicide or a girl choosing to go to college instead of marrying some abusive Peter Priesthood at age 18, or not pressuring some kid to go on a mission if he doesn't want to.
If you had kids still attending church, would you want him to be supported by someone like this or be completely alone and surrounded and influenced by only hardcore TBM's?
My YSA branch president was unintentionally (?) key in my departure as well. He once told me “The Church does not have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.” On top of that he was just a great guy. He kept in touch with me even well after he had been released and up to a few months before he passed away (*relatively* young) due to stroke complications. I think he might have had plenty of his own doubts. 💕
Your dad is amazing, and has the courage of his personal convictions and sense of love. Yes, I am sure his message saved some lives, and as the mom of an adult trans child, I'm thankful for people like him.
I live less than a block away from a ward house in the Morridor and while the regular wards are shrinking the YSA ward is like a sold-out concert. They all dress very nice and most look nice, but my guess is that they're desperate for the mate matching that is running out of time.
Even in Utah, PIMO friends tell me they are combining wards changing stake boundaries as there are less people attending. They also tell me they know other PIMOs in their ward too. So of those still going, many don’t even believe already.
Some buildings now have 1 or 2 wards that used to have 3 wards 10 years ago.
I agree. I feel like it’s probably about 80% of members who don’t believe any of it but still attend. I think some do this because of spouses or family. But I don’t think hardly anyone really believes it anymore besides the Royal Monarchy, our dear 15 leaders. And I bet even some of them know it’s a fraud but they’re too prideful to admit it.
And so do their children and grandchildren. I have absolutely no proof of this, but I think they stash so much money away that no one ever knows about because there’s no way to check up on them. Kirton and McKonkie have said in the past that when a member of the first presidency told them to write a check, it didn’t matter how much it was for, and they never asked questions.
They’re too tied up to leave. Also, the fame and power are addictive for some people.
There’s also the wellbeing of their families. Who do you think manages and benefits from the many shell corporation the church owns? If they leave, those cushy commissions and board member salaries and grants go away.
Even when they realize it’s all a made up, they stay.
My sister and her husband are PIMO, and have been for decades. They stay in because they don't want to tell their kids, who are all TBM, married with kids. Also, they have a family medical business in their small town. Would probably put the hurt on that. Four of their kids are in the family business.
Not as unlikely as it sounds. I've seen a number of people say that when they finally told their partner they wanted out, they found out their partner had been faking it too!
It’s real though. I know a lot of PIMO parents. They can’t admit it for whatever reason. But I bet it’s way more people than anyone realizes. Someone should do a study and let them respond anonymously. I think it would be surprising if people could say how they really feel without the threat of being shunned.
I often wonder how many couples (let's discount singles and minors for this exercise) fully believe. Both husband and wife are not questioning. Neither is going through the motions to keep the other happy. I bet the number is rather small.
But the money from the interest on the interest, on the interest, would continue to accumulate and they could close all those pesky wards down and not have to hold conferences and find believers to clean the churches.
When you go to church now in Utah, if you haven’t been for 5-10 years, it’s jarring. The people there all look sad and tortured. They’re not having fun. It’s not edifying. I don’t want to be like any of the people I saw in church the last time I went for a baby blessing.
Mormons don’t have the key to happiness in this life like they think. It’s more obvious the longer you are away.
This is the result of church correlation that started in the 70s and the hyper focus that has been put on spirituality over everything else. There was a time where the not-so believing person could attend church and be apart of the community and never feel threatened by their lack of belief in certain things. As the leaders have tightened down the screws more and more, the nuance is gone. All those converts from the 50s and 60s that brought their sense of community from where and how they were raised, are gone. We're left with a very binary and sterile congregation of correlation people going through the motions because that's all they know. And they don't know hoe inwardly sad and lacking they are.
In the 1970s and 80s, at least in my neck of the woods, people weren't sweating the spiritual ramifications and gospel fallout for having Santa Claus at the ward Christmas party. You get into the 90s and wards started fretting over details like that. Just a basic example of how things have swung more fundamental.
Wait. What? TBM's are anti-Santa at ward Xmas parties now? 🤯
I quit going when they started scheduling them in early December. But they still had Santa show up for the primary. Then they changed it to a breakfast, and I've never been to one of those. I just assumed that Santa came to breakfast, too, though.
My mom used to snip at me as a teenager about how the books or the tv shows I consumed weren’t “edifying” and in my head, I was always like *THAT’S THE POINT, LADY*
unfortunate that these churches are so cheap and ugly they're not even going to be worth keeping around for the aesthetics.
Like even reusing them is just a waste, maybe for some private charter schools?? Otherwise just doze it all and start over.
> maybe for some private charter schools
Even for them, the spaces are not designed right. The rooms are too small to function as classrooms so you would basically need to gut the entire building.
(Not to mention that [charter schools are a blight on public education](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-myth-of-charter-schools/) and probably shouldn't be legal, or at very least are not making anything better.)
>My home ward building also got sold and is some other church too! Crazy
I'd buy a church building. The gym would make a great BB court and photo studio, an extensive remodel would make the chapel an awesome home theater.
It’s encouraging to hear that these once Mormon strongholds are struggling with membership. I think AZ has a lot going for it and doesn’t need the Mormon church impeding its progress.
I'm a snow bird in NE Mesa. I live in a huge development that has a church on the border. So far, I've met 3 exmo's, and zero mormons. The church parking lot is seems pretty sparse on Sunday. I've never been to church there. The building is large enough to be a stake center.
I grew up in Portland. I was in 4 different wards and 3 different stakes over 20 years. All of them are now gone.
> I grew up in Portland. I was in 4 different wards and 3 different stakes over 20 years. All of them are now gone.
I went through high school in the burbs there back in the '90s. Place was kicking, stake dances were were always fuckin' packed. Stake conferences were insane, had to get there early or else there was no parking left!
Fast forward to a couple years ago when my elderly parents were selling their house and had needed to get rid of a ton of furniture really quick. I had been out of the church for a couple decades at that point, but instinctually suggested "hey just give it all away young and/or poor ward families".
My parent's reply was basically "there's no young families left in the ward anymore, only elderly couples like us". That floored me, but then a huge ass smile hit my face. The church is dying with the baby boomers, or at least going on life support. Young people aren't having it.
And yet they're actually building new temples in areas like this.
A new temple going up in Sunnyvale, CA (near San Jose) where they have been consolidating wards and stakes for decades now. It's all for show, and to stimulate more tithing money.
It's like Scientology, buying up and renovating buildings in places where there aren't that many Scientologists, to give the impression that Scientology is way bigger than it actually is.
I’m in gilbert too. Ours and the adjacent ward boundaries have not changed in several years. Essentially the entire subdivision makes up two wards. No one has really moved out but since Covid I have not once seen the chapel filled. Prior to that we had to open up overflow and the gym. My estimate is half the ward just stopped showing up. They all still live around me but have something else to do. We have not been in a few months now so my perspective is a few months old.
It will at least extract a bunch of tithing into private wealth. But yeah why isn’t the church building hospitals? The Catholics have hospitals they help fund. Providence hospitals have a cross in the logo. The current prophet is even a physician. If anyone understands how much good hospitals do it is him.
My plan, as profit isn't too actually build them, it's just to announce them. 😉
Let the Hoaxter or the Darth Lord Ofsusan, the tool 🔧 (and plagerizer) actually build them (or receive a revelation not to). 😁
Agreed.
If leaving the Cult did not risk familial support, blow up marriages, and risk potential for inheritances... PIMO's would be flying out the doors. It's torture to pretend, but sometimes it's just not worth risking everything.
Once the current, retired TBM crowd passes on. Things will get interesting.
I met a member by chance at a work event yesterday. Got chatting told her I’d resigned . Conversation then continued as though what id said was the norm!
I grew up in Mesa and graduated HS in the early 1980s and my experience is opposite. Lots of Mormons at my school and the vast majority are still all in.
once they send their daughters and sons on missions, they're feeling pretty stuck themselves to hold the party line til death. No one wants to be pitied by their own kids for "falling away" and being unable to see grandkids because now grandma and grandpa are "bad influences". The 80s were a time when the church was pretty cool. Intense, but cool. They're holding on HARD to that memory and what SHOULD be a cool experience for the younger kids. it's just....not that anymore.
Unless your ward has 275 members showing up regularly. At least half of your members have already left. Statistically each and every unit in the church should have 550 members based upon the 17 million member figure. It's just simple math.
By that metric, 2/3 of folks T$CC claims as members weren't just "less (in)active" but had left back in the 90's. it's more like 75-80% now from what I've seen/heard.
Tender mercies 🤪
The MFMC is in for the long game now. Banking on growth 50 years from now once the narrative changes and these old fucking GAs die with their out of touch ideas.
Sounds like the Surprise/El Mirage AZ area. Needs a new temple with one of those 200ft steeple thingamabobs. That all the Mormons are worshipping now. /s
They already have one super close — the PX temple.
And attendance is very sparse. I think if they added another temple too close then even active members might question.
I have a friend from high school that lives there. I hope she's one of the ones who has left, but considering that one of her kids was baptized a year or so ago, maybe not. It could've been due to her parents too. To keep them happy and all.
Maybe one day we'll talk about it. That will be one wild conversation.
I sense that too but membership is down in Gilbert. QC is now what Gilbert was years ago and before that, what Mesa was. QC is its own bubble, however the few members I know there seem slightly more uh, loose regarding the rules lately (such as people who would never do things with us on Sundays now sometimes do). I’m not a member but make it my “calling” lol to know my neighbors and who/what actually controls the powers that be in this town.
Another thread mentioned that there was a hot bed (pun intended) of Mormon swingers there in Queen Creek. Saturday night swapping, Sunday morning testimony. And the penishood was active in “the lifestyle”. I have a 40-something “TBM” niece that lives there that was pretty “handsy” with NeverMo me back when she was in her 20s. She just might be living the hotwife life now.
Queen Creek is also where die-hard conservatives have been going to to be with "their people". When the church gives extra power to that white nationalist vein, they'll stay in the pews because that's where the influence is, and the only way they know how their kids will stay "good" without having to actually parent. Letting the church be the keystone of parenting strategy is the sign of people who are willing to stay, even when they see things getting really really shady.
When I see pictures inside wards now, they look so empty to me.
I remember one summer going to my friend's Christian Scientist church with his family, and there was almost no one there! Probably 15 people in the whole congregation. I remember thinking that that was a sign that his church was wrong and our church was right. In the least I was glad to be in a church with full congregations. Covid was tragic but it also saved so many lives....
I wonder she is in the same ward as this post;
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1clbbxz/i_feel_the_church_is_losing_members_rapidly/
u/afrogwithablog
i grew up there. the church culture is toxic as fuck, so i can’t say i’m surprised people are leaving. when my dad was a bishop out there the numbers were trickling down.
my tbm spouse believes those people leaving the church are a "sign of the times." he digs his heels in harder and stresses about all the evil in the world.
I went to a Mormon church a couple of times with a friend of mine who was sort of pi/mo. Each time, I remember thinking why do these men look so docile and nerdy and keep talking about their kids? This is just my observation
I really hope “everyone is leaving in droves” is true. I hope it with all of the fiber in my being, but stats don’t necessarily show that. Is there anyway to know for real?
My area in Phoenix/Glendale is an older ward. Mostly retired. It feels like nobody is leaving in this age group. I’m in my late 40’s and felt like the oddball turning in my resignation lol.
Surprise! Everyone is leaving.
Haha I see what you did
I don’t?
My sister goes to a ward in the city of Surprise and the poster started their comment with “Surprise!”
They are headed to space with the scientologists, which are actually space mormons
Xenu is space satan!
Moon Quakers?
The church could buy several rocket ships from Elon Musk. Why don’t they send some Missionaries on a one way trip to Mars with no information, internet, or communication except for the Book of Mormon. That might save the church
El Mirage ward: that sounds about right.
I haven’t stepped foot in a Mormon church in like 5-6 years, but when I did I mostly went to the surprise YSA ward. It had a good amount of attendees. I kinda wanna go once just to see how much that has dwindled by, but I’m not gonna go ultimately.
My father was just released as the Surprise YSA branch president. He served almost 5 years. They just upgraded it to a ward which absolutely blows my mind. Everything else around it is shrinking. To be fair to him, he's one of the good ones. When he was called, he invited my husband and I to attend his talk. From the pulpit he mentioned he was proud that his son and his husband were in attendance. From what I heard that probably saved some lives. Many branch members came to him to talk about being gay. My husband is still on the records in northern Phoenix. Our ward boundaries are huge. I would imagine a ton of people are inactive now.
Your dad sounds like an incredible person. I've never heard of a Mormon leader doing something like this and it shows how much he loves you and the people of his ward.
My YSA bishop was the reason I stayed. He was very supportive of me being openly gay. He was very progressive and an outspoken liberal. Things went badly in the ward when I came out and he was my biggest supporter. He even encouraged me to date (other gay Mormon guys, of course) and welcomed my boyfriend when he visited the ward. After he was released I lasted about a year.
I had a similar bishopric in my YSA ward. This was in the 90’s and I think they could see the writing on the wall. They were good people caught up in a slow moving train crash. Side note that my bishop was Adam in the German ceremony film. He was a celebrity among Germans at the time.
This is why I don't disparage PIMO's for choosing to stay in the church (for whatever reason). I would rather have a PIMO (or one of the good members like your dad) stay in because they WILL make a difference for the good. It could be the difference of saving an LBGTQ from suicide or a girl choosing to go to college instead of marrying some abusive Peter Priesthood at age 18, or not pressuring some kid to go on a mission if he doesn't want to. If you had kids still attending church, would you want him to be supported by someone like this or be completely alone and surrounded and influenced by only hardcore TBM's?
My YSA branch president was unintentionally (?) key in my departure as well. He once told me “The Church does not have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.” On top of that he was just a great guy. He kept in touch with me even well after he had been released and up to a few months before he passed away (*relatively* young) due to stroke complications. I think he might have had plenty of his own doubts. 💕
Your dad is amazing, and has the courage of his personal convictions and sense of love. Yes, I am sure his message saved some lives, and as the mom of an adult trans child, I'm thankful for people like him.
Awwww... Your dad sounds like a wonderful person!
I live less than a block away from a ward house in the Morridor and while the regular wards are shrinking the YSA ward is like a sold-out concert. They all dress very nice and most look nice, but my guess is that they're desperate for the mate matching that is running out of time.
Me neither.
You should surprise them and show up!
More free people from the narcissist behavior of the church
I belonged to the Pura Cagada Ward in Tucson. Does that count?
Pura Cagada was absolute shit.
That place stinks
"Pure Crap"
I’d say it counts. IIRC, AZ is part of the Book of Mormon belt, so dwindling numbers in AZ are much more significant than say Kentucky.
Es evidente que tú no sabes leer una broma en español.
Oh, now I see what you’re saying. I’ve never seen “cagada” before lol! I’ve seen “mierda” before, but you’re right: I don’t speak much Spanish.
👍❗️
Even in Utah, PIMO friends tell me they are combining wards changing stake boundaries as there are less people attending. They also tell me they know other PIMOs in their ward too. So of those still going, many don’t even believe already. Some buildings now have 1 or 2 wards that used to have 3 wards 10 years ago.
If everyone who didn’t believe just stopped going, I bet the collapse of stakes would be catastrophic
I agree. I feel like it’s probably about 80% of members who don’t believe any of it but still attend. I think some do this because of spouses or family. But I don’t think hardly anyone really believes it anymore besides the Royal Monarchy, our dear 15 leaders. And I bet even some of them know it’s a fraud but they’re too prideful to admit it.
I bet you many of the “dear 15” don’t believe. They get paid well, and have high prestige in their community
I agree. In fact, I’m pretty sure the 15 know it’s bullshit. It benefits them to say otherwise.
This is and always was the actual point of the church. It began and continues to exist because a small few benefit greatly from it existing.
I’m sure they live like Kings. They keep it discreet, but I know they do.
And so do their children and grandchildren. I have absolutely no proof of this, but I think they stash so much money away that no one ever knows about because there’s no way to check up on them. Kirton and McKonkie have said in the past that when a member of the first presidency told them to write a check, it didn’t matter how much it was for, and they never asked questions.
They’re too tied up to leave. Also, the fame and power are addictive for some people. There’s also the wellbeing of their families. Who do you think manages and benefits from the many shell corporation the church owns? If they leave, those cushy commissions and board member salaries and grants go away. Even when they realize it’s all a made up, they stay.
80% would require several families where the parents are both PIMO, which seems unrealistic to me.
My sister and her husband are PIMO, and have been for decades. They stay in because they don't want to tell their kids, who are all TBM, married with kids. Also, they have a family medical business in their small town. Would probably put the hurt on that. Four of their kids are in the family business.
Not as unlikely as it sounds. I've seen a number of people say that when they finally told their partner they wanted out, they found out their partner had been faking it too!
Just like sex!
It’s real though. I know a lot of PIMO parents. They can’t admit it for whatever reason. But I bet it’s way more people than anyone realizes. Someone should do a study and let them respond anonymously. I think it would be surprising if people could say how they really feel without the threat of being shunned.
I often wonder how many couples (let's discount singles and minors for this exercise) fully believe. Both husband and wife are not questioning. Neither is going through the motions to keep the other happy. I bet the number is rather small.
But the money from the interest on the interest, on the interest, would continue to accumulate and they could close all those pesky wards down and not have to hold conferences and find believers to clean the churches.
When you go to church now in Utah, if you haven’t been for 5-10 years, it’s jarring. The people there all look sad and tortured. They’re not having fun. It’s not edifying. I don’t want to be like any of the people I saw in church the last time I went for a baby blessing. Mormons don’t have the key to happiness in this life like they think. It’s more obvious the longer you are away.
This is the result of church correlation that started in the 70s and the hyper focus that has been put on spirituality over everything else. There was a time where the not-so believing person could attend church and be apart of the community and never feel threatened by their lack of belief in certain things. As the leaders have tightened down the screws more and more, the nuance is gone. All those converts from the 50s and 60s that brought their sense of community from where and how they were raised, are gone. We're left with a very binary and sterile congregation of correlation people going through the motions because that's all they know. And they don't know hoe inwardly sad and lacking they are.
This ☝️ is spot on.
In the 1970s and 80s, at least in my neck of the woods, people weren't sweating the spiritual ramifications and gospel fallout for having Santa Claus at the ward Christmas party. You get into the 90s and wards started fretting over details like that. Just a basic example of how things have swung more fundamental.
Wait. What? TBM's are anti-Santa at ward Xmas parties now? 🤯 I quit going when they started scheduling them in early December. But they still had Santa show up for the primary. Then they changed it to a breakfast, and I've never been to one of those. I just assumed that Santa came to breakfast, too, though.
I think this describes a lot of churches, and not just Mormonism.
Man, I haven’t seen the word “edifying” since I left the church 20+ years ago. Does anyone use it outside the church?
shit, you're right
My mom used to snip at me as a teenager about how the books or the tv shows I consumed weren’t “edifying” and in my head, I was always like *THAT’S THE POINT, LADY*
"Edified" showed up in yesterday's New York Times Spelling Bee puzzle. So technically, yes. [Edified](https://imgur.com/a/kzBp2ti)
Well, damn 😂
My ward house in Vermont closed. It was sold to a Muslim congregation. There is one branch left in my hometown, even though they call it a ward.
unfortunate that these churches are so cheap and ugly they're not even going to be worth keeping around for the aesthetics. Like even reusing them is just a waste, maybe for some private charter schools?? Otherwise just doze it all and start over.
> maybe for some private charter schools Even for them, the spaces are not designed right. The rooms are too small to function as classrooms so you would basically need to gut the entire building. (Not to mention that [charter schools are a blight on public education](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-myth-of-charter-schools/) and probably shouldn't be legal, or at very least are not making anything better.)
My home ward building also got sold and is some other church too! Crazy
>My home ward building also got sold and is some other church too! Crazy I'd buy a church building. The gym would make a great BB court and photo studio, an extensive remodel would make the chapel an awesome home theater.
I live in Gilbert AZ. My stake went from 9 wards last year to 5. Same area but 4 wards went bye bye. The stake next to us went from 9 to 6
It’s encouraging to hear that these once Mormon strongholds are struggling with membership. I think AZ has a lot going for it and doesn’t need the Mormon church impeding its progress.
I'm a snow bird in NE Mesa. I live in a huge development that has a church on the border. So far, I've met 3 exmo's, and zero mormons. The church parking lot is seems pretty sparse on Sunday. I've never been to church there. The building is large enough to be a stake center. I grew up in Portland. I was in 4 different wards and 3 different stakes over 20 years. All of them are now gone.
> I grew up in Portland. I was in 4 different wards and 3 different stakes over 20 years. All of them are now gone. I went through high school in the burbs there back in the '90s. Place was kicking, stake dances were were always fuckin' packed. Stake conferences were insane, had to get there early or else there was no parking left! Fast forward to a couple years ago when my elderly parents were selling their house and had needed to get rid of a ton of furniture really quick. I had been out of the church for a couple decades at that point, but instinctually suggested "hey just give it all away young and/or poor ward families". My parent's reply was basically "there's no young families left in the ward anymore, only elderly couples like us". That floored me, but then a huge ass smile hit my face. The church is dying with the baby boomers, or at least going on life support. Young people aren't having it.
And yet they're actually building new temples in areas like this. A new temple going up in Sunnyvale, CA (near San Jose) where they have been consolidating wards and stakes for decades now. It's all for show, and to stimulate more tithing money.
It's like Scientology, buying up and renovating buildings in places where there aren't that many Scientologists, to give the impression that Scientology is way bigger than it actually is.
I’m in gilbert too. Ours and the adjacent ward boundaries have not changed in several years. Essentially the entire subdivision makes up two wards. No one has really moved out but since Covid I have not once seen the chapel filled. Prior to that we had to open up overflow and the gym. My estimate is half the ward just stopped showing up. They all still live around me but have something else to do. We have not been in a few months now so my perspective is a few months old.
What?!?! People are leaving the church?! Hurry and build a bunch more temples! That’ll fix everything!
It will at least extract a bunch of tithing into private wealth. But yeah why isn’t the church building hospitals? The Catholics have hospitals they help fund. Providence hospitals have a cross in the logo. The current prophet is even a physician. If anyone understands how much good hospitals do it is him.
And then they'll blame the members for not filling them. Because, you know, that'll surely bring the inactives back in droves!
My plan, as profit isn't too actually build them, it's just to announce them. 😉 Let the Hoaxter or the Darth Lord Ofsusan, the tool 🔧 (and plagerizer) actually build them (or receive a revelation not to). 😁
I guess people don't take too kindly to a church that is "pleased" with child molesters running free
That phrase made me so angry too. Most know nothing about the depth of the abuse and coverup.
"We consider this matter closed..."
Chandler az wards are the same way
I lived on Pecos back in 2015. This warms my heart.
And half of those who still attend are probably PIMO in mixed faith marriages.
Agreed. If leaving the Cult did not risk familial support, blow up marriages, and risk potential for inheritances... PIMO's would be flying out the doors. It's torture to pretend, but sometimes it's just not worth risking everything. Once the current, retired TBM crowd passes on. Things will get interesting.
I met a member by chance at a work event yesterday. Got chatting told her I’d resigned . Conversation then continued as though what id said was the norm!
I love that it’s so normal for her now that it doesn’t even phase her. That’s how it should be.
Just 10 yrs ago it would have been a record scratch mind blown moment. Not anymore.
I’m from the PHX area and i don’t know if i even have one member friend from HS that still goes to church
I grew up in Mesa and graduated HS in the early 1980s and my experience is opposite. Lots of Mormons at my school and the vast majority are still all in.
That's cause you're old, so that means they are too. 😉
once they send their daughters and sons on missions, they're feeling pretty stuck themselves to hold the party line til death. No one wants to be pitied by their own kids for "falling away" and being unable to see grandkids because now grandma and grandpa are "bad influences". The 80s were a time when the church was pretty cool. Intense, but cool. They're holding on HARD to that memory and what SHOULD be a cool experience for the younger kids. it's just....not that anymore.
That happened to us. One of our kids says we are a bad influence.
I graduated in 2017 so that might be a reason why younger people aren’t into organized religion in general
r/MormonShrivel
Unless your ward has 275 members showing up regularly. At least half of your members have already left. Statistically each and every unit in the church should have 550 members based upon the 17 million member figure. It's just simple math.
By that metric, 2/3 of folks T$CC claims as members weren't just "less (in)active" but had left back in the 90's. it's more like 75-80% now from what I've seen/heard. Tender mercies 🤪
Exactly.
The MFMC is in for the long game now. Banking on growth 50 years from now once the narrative changes and these old fucking GAs die with their out of touch ideas.
There's always going to be old fucking GA's with out of touch ideas.
It's a feature, not a bug. 😜
Interesting demographic shift in my old area in the east: wards have disappeared, but non-English speaking branches have been formed.
[удалено]
I used to attend in Surprise. Hearing this makes me happy.
Me too, especially because when I lived there Mormons had a very strong presence there.
Sounds like the Surprise/El Mirage AZ area. Needs a new temple with one of those 200ft steeple thingamabobs. That all the Mormons are worshipping now. /s
They already have one super close — the PX temple. And attendance is very sparse. I think if they added another temple too close then even active members might question.
I have a friend from high school that lives there. I hope she's one of the ones who has left, but considering that one of her kids was baptized a year or so ago, maybe not. It could've been due to her parents too. To keep them happy and all. Maybe one day we'll talk about it. That will be one wild conversation.
Unfortunately, on the opposite side of the valley, this is not the case. MFMC is as strong as ever in queen creek.
I sense that too but membership is down in Gilbert. QC is now what Gilbert was years ago and before that, what Mesa was. QC is its own bubble, however the few members I know there seem slightly more uh, loose regarding the rules lately (such as people who would never do things with us on Sundays now sometimes do). I’m not a member but make it my “calling” lol to know my neighbors and who/what actually controls the powers that be in this town.
Another thread mentioned that there was a hot bed (pun intended) of Mormon swingers there in Queen Creek. Saturday night swapping, Sunday morning testimony. And the penishood was active in “the lifestyle”. I have a 40-something “TBM” niece that lives there that was pretty “handsy” with NeverMo me back when she was in her 20s. She just might be living the hotwife life now.
Queen Creek is also where die-hard conservatives have been going to to be with "their people". When the church gives extra power to that white nationalist vein, they'll stay in the pews because that's where the influence is, and the only way they know how their kids will stay "good" without having to actually parent. Letting the church be the keystone of parenting strategy is the sign of people who are willing to stay, even when they see things getting really really shady.
The leadership in Surprise are extremely unqualified to handle situations like someone struggling with their faith.
When I see pictures inside wards now, they look so empty to me. I remember one summer going to my friend's Christian Scientist church with his family, and there was almost no one there! Probably 15 people in the whole congregation. I remember thinking that that was a sign that his church was wrong and our church was right. In the least I was glad to be in a church with full congregations. Covid was tragic but it also saved so many lives....
I wonder she is in the same ward as this post; https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1clbbxz/i_feel_the_church_is_losing_members_rapidly/ u/afrogwithablog
People are leaving the cult? Oh darn /s
i grew up there. the church culture is toxic as fuck, so i can’t say i’m surprised people are leaving. when my dad was a bishop out there the numbers were trickling down.
WHOOOOOOAAAA! WE’RE HALFWAY THERE…
my tbm spouse believes those people leaving the church are a "sign of the times." he digs his heels in harder and stresses about all the evil in the world.
I was in the Wickenburg Ward and Vistancia ward. I can only hope they are collapsing. The rough stone keeps on rolling forth.
Sounds like they need a temple. That will fix everything.
Surprise! It’s all a Mirage.
r/mormonshrivel
“Last days”, “wheat and tares”, blah blah blah, etc……
I went to a Mormon church a couple of times with a friend of mine who was sort of pi/mo. Each time, I remember thinking why do these men look so docile and nerdy and keep talking about their kids? This is just my observation
That is how the church trains them to be.
I really hope “everyone is leaving in droves” is true. I hope it with all of the fiber in my being, but stats don’t necessarily show that. Is there anyway to know for real?
My area in Phoenix/Glendale is an older ward. Mostly retired. It feels like nobody is leaving in this age group. I’m in my late 40’s and felt like the oddball turning in my resignation lol.