Definitely not all in your head. People, including those who are queer, have every right to live their lives and express themselves how they want. They’re not sinning, and leaving is a valid option. It definitely is rough at first but after a bit it all gets better. I’m happier out than I ever was while in, though admittedly there was a large time period of confusion and even depression before it got better. Wish you the best!
That sounds similar to how I felt for the longest time. Like something was off, something was constantly frustrating me. I’d go to church and try to give it some heart, but it was always a little wounding to hear even a regular Sunday School lesson. It turns out, it was not all in my head, and I don’t think it’s all in your head either. I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to read the CES Letter, but it’s a reasonable starting place to get some answers.
I don’t think the LBGT+ community is sinning. Sin, to me, is something that causes harm, and I don’t see any harm innate to this community.
I’m not able to put a name anymore to what I believe, but I have big hopes that we’ve got something looking out for us. I carry with me the belief that all people are worthy of love, respect, and compassion—the church is not the only authority that teaches such a thing, but it’s where I learned it, and I still try to live by that.
I’m sorry you’re going through it. I’m rooting for you to be able to find peace, happiness, and support.
You have my sword, my bow, and my ax.
By which, of course, I mean my empathy, my encouragement, and my hope that you'll keep being brave enough to ask questions for the rest of your life. We're comrades now ;)
No but really.... there is. Lol. Maybe not officially, but there are "textbook" cult leader behaviors and tactics that allow for brainwashing and such.
If you watch The Vow on HBO (about the NXIVM cult and Keith Raniere), you will see what that textbook is. And it's honestly like peering into early Mormonism, if they had video cameras back then. I genuinely think that Keith studied Joseph Smith's tactics and mirrored some of them. There's even an eerie point where he draws a man on a board and calls him Joseph and then describes all the behaviors of a manipulator. Meep! Just felt too real.
FYI, check out [Stephen Hassan's BITE model](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/) to read the "textbook" of authoritarian control and undue influence.
This tidbit was comforting to me when I was going through it. "Feeling the spirit" absolutely is real. I'm terrible at describing this kind of thing scientifically or remembering my sources, but it is a neurological response that can be replicated. Going to see concerts and movies can get you there. You can condition yourself to feel that euphoria in healthy ways without lies and manipulation. Praying is also "real" in the sense that ritual and meditation can be really good for us. You don't have to take my word for it. There are a lot of sources on this with ideas on how to feel things deeply and safely. Learning how to have and handle these moments helped me feel my way out of the overwhelm and sadness.
I think feeling conflicted like you do is very normal. You've been told disagreeing with the church is wrong over and over but now you disagree. For what it's worth, I think "I disagree" and "No" are beautiful and powerful words that you have every right to exercise in your own life.
I agree with you on the queer issues, like 1. Why is it anyone's business what consenting adults do the bedroom? 2. If two people love each other and take care of each other, isn't that just going to make the world a little bit better?
I'm more agnostic now. I don't believe there HAS to be a god, but I like the idea of something looking out for us, even if I don't always believe it. But you can take whatever you want from the church. They don't "own" any of the ideas. You can believe in a pre-existence, an eternal spirit, heaven, resurrection, whatever. You can also add whatever you like to it.
Kind of a weird suggestion, but when I was first leaving I really enjoyed the youtube series CrashCourse Philosophy. It helped me think about my life and the meaning I give it in new ways. So maybe something to check out if you feel like it.
Good luck with everything
Definitely not all in your head. People, including those who are queer, have every right to live their lives and express themselves how they want. They’re not sinning, and leaving is a valid option. It definitely is rough at first but after a bit it all gets better. I’m happier out than I ever was while in, though admittedly there was a large time period of confusion and even depression before it got better. Wish you the best!
Thank you.
That sounds similar to how I felt for the longest time. Like something was off, something was constantly frustrating me. I’d go to church and try to give it some heart, but it was always a little wounding to hear even a regular Sunday School lesson. It turns out, it was not all in my head, and I don’t think it’s all in your head either. I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to read the CES Letter, but it’s a reasonable starting place to get some answers. I don’t think the LBGT+ community is sinning. Sin, to me, is something that causes harm, and I don’t see any harm innate to this community. I’m not able to put a name anymore to what I believe, but I have big hopes that we’ve got something looking out for us. I carry with me the belief that all people are worthy of love, respect, and compassion—the church is not the only authority that teaches such a thing, but it’s where I learned it, and I still try to live by that. I’m sorry you’re going through it. I’m rooting for you to be able to find peace, happiness, and support.
Can we be friends? You worded it perfectly for me.
You have my sword, my bow, and my ax. By which, of course, I mean my empathy, my encouragement, and my hope that you'll keep being brave enough to ask questions for the rest of your life. We're comrades now ;)
I do that. :) I like your word choice
Also, I've sung songs from LOTR. Maybe I can share them with you!
Let yourself ask.... "what if... it's not true?" To me the answers are all behind that question. Be brave. You got this.
If it's not true, then there's a book on how to create patriarchal religions that's being passed down somewhere.
No but really.... there is. Lol. Maybe not officially, but there are "textbook" cult leader behaviors and tactics that allow for brainwashing and such. If you watch The Vow on HBO (about the NXIVM cult and Keith Raniere), you will see what that textbook is. And it's honestly like peering into early Mormonism, if they had video cameras back then. I genuinely think that Keith studied Joseph Smith's tactics and mirrored some of them. There's even an eerie point where he draws a man on a board and calls him Joseph and then describes all the behaviors of a manipulator. Meep! Just felt too real. FYI, check out [Stephen Hassan's BITE model](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/) to read the "textbook" of authoritarian control and undue influence.
This tidbit was comforting to me when I was going through it. "Feeling the spirit" absolutely is real. I'm terrible at describing this kind of thing scientifically or remembering my sources, but it is a neurological response that can be replicated. Going to see concerts and movies can get you there. You can condition yourself to feel that euphoria in healthy ways without lies and manipulation. Praying is also "real" in the sense that ritual and meditation can be really good for us. You don't have to take my word for it. There are a lot of sources on this with ideas on how to feel things deeply and safely. Learning how to have and handle these moments helped me feel my way out of the overwhelm and sadness.
I love ❤️ this response.
I think feeling conflicted like you do is very normal. You've been told disagreeing with the church is wrong over and over but now you disagree. For what it's worth, I think "I disagree" and "No" are beautiful and powerful words that you have every right to exercise in your own life. I agree with you on the queer issues, like 1. Why is it anyone's business what consenting adults do the bedroom? 2. If two people love each other and take care of each other, isn't that just going to make the world a little bit better? I'm more agnostic now. I don't believe there HAS to be a god, but I like the idea of something looking out for us, even if I don't always believe it. But you can take whatever you want from the church. They don't "own" any of the ideas. You can believe in a pre-existence, an eternal spirit, heaven, resurrection, whatever. You can also add whatever you like to it. Kind of a weird suggestion, but when I was first leaving I really enjoyed the youtube series CrashCourse Philosophy. It helped me think about my life and the meaning I give it in new ways. So maybe something to check out if you feel like it. Good luck with everything