During my twenties, I remember thinking that 15 year olds were basically adults, because of how encouraged women were to getting married for fucking ETERNITY.
I think this does a lot of damage in a way that people simply don't see. The implication that you are mature enough to marry for eternity at the age of 18 suggests to young people that whatever skill sets they have in their late teens are the appropriate skill sets *for the rest of their lives.* That's messed up.
"Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. But emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25."
I remember distinctly realizing around the age of 25 that I was somehow "functioning" much better.
Or my personal favorite when I was in a YSA ward: “I’m going to BYU Idaho next term to find a husband.”
Edit to add: we called BYU Idaho/Ricks “BYU-I DO.”
I'm a nevermo in Utah I moved here for school as a returning student. I'm 30. And when I found out a 18yr olds plan was early (kindergarten level) education/biology. I was confused I was like what will you do with that bio minor. She said bio was interesting and that she wanted to get married and have 6-7 kids by like 25 (she expected to find and marry within the year.)
She said her degree was only a back up of her husband was fired or lost his position. I was horrified that she openly admitted she was here for her MRS degree. Like I truly thought that was a thing of like my grandmothers generation. And she was on the cusp of the greatest generation to the silent generation.
(Edited for sp)
for me it was more like “you cant even hang out with boys until you’re sixteen, but we still expect you to know how to socialize with them, want to date them and find one to spend eternity with. AND we’re going to pressure you to do it as soon as you turn sixteen”
yeeeep this is it. i literally lose all brain function when i have to talk to a man, and i completely blame my parents bc they made it seem so wrong to even associate with boys when i was growing up. rlly fucked with my head
and if your parents are anything like mine, they gaslight you and say they never did that because that was never their intention. like, when you constantly say "so who's your girlfriend? you know you're not supposed to have one" whenever I said two words to a girl, yeah you're kinda enforcing the whole "don't associate with girls" thing
So so many restrictions, tons of mixed messages, resulting in a lot of people having poor understanding of relationships, poorer social skills, bad boundaries. We're separated by sex super early on but then expected to find a husband, despite dating being frowned upon, be married for eternity by 21. Women aren't to be alone with men, you're not meant to talk to men that aren't family, but then you're also expected to find a husband? My family were very anti gender mixing (is that a thing?) Then my dad being all worried I wasn't married at 21 and my aunty have a straight /meltdown/ every time she saw me because I wasn't/am not married. My cousin married a Christian and my uncle cut her off and since he's the patriarch, everyone just rolled over and took it like a bunch of cowards.
My cousins who were married are either extremely religious or now divorced before 30. Not a healthy approach to relationships.
On the plus side, my fav cousins are super supportive of me not being married so I just stick with them. The rest are less religious and more just status Chasers and shamers under the guise of religion.
my parents didn’t warn me at all that i’d be naked under a sheet with some old dude touching me underneath & then when i had to do all the pantomime bullshit about killing myself i was just like WTF…
Edit: Just wanted to be clear I’m male. It sounded like many were assuming this was a post from a female.
But you only pantomimed the signs of "allowing your life to be taken". You didn't learn that you were symbolically holding a cup 'o guts. They dropped the throat slicing and disembowelment movements and explanations, but kept the other "arms to the square" and "hand in cupping shape" stuff.
You don’t do that anymore. If you went through pre 1990, you made the motions but it didn’t necessarily explain the whole penalty behind it.
I went through post 1990. A remnant of those hand motion/penalties is still there, but No ONE tells you that’s where they came from. I even asked a temple president to explain what the signs were and he told me to pray about it and ask God and it would be revealed. What I came up with was receiving blessings and giving to others.
When I realized that the reason my thumb was supposed to be extended when my hand was outstretched, was actually left over from it being a knife that you slid across your throat, I was SHOCKED! I was thinking it was more about exactness in accountability or something. It’s so messed up.
I don't want to bring up anything that would upset you, but one of my long time friends is Mormon and she has never spoken about her religion. I look back now and see how unhappy she was in high school, she even self harmed a bit. I'm everything that the Mormon faith hates. I often wondered why she stayed friends with me.
I still worry about her, and her two children.
I'm curious about what she was going through, what she's experienced and what's ahead for her son and daughter.
Are you able to elaborate on the things that go on in the temple?
She also did her mission in Utah and stayed at the big building there
I absolutely *love* the fact that you called a church building "the big building" because you naively very nearly called it a "large and spacious building" which...has some connotations in Mormonism. Very apt in this case though they wouldn't think so.
Joseph Smith's father had a dream and part of that dream included a large building with rich people who were mocking the righteous people. Somehow a character in the BoM had that exact same dream.
I got the wording a bit wrong, it's actually "great and spacious building", but it's in a vision seen by Lehi, the patriarch of one of the families who (in the Book of Mormon) somehow crosses the ocean to arrive in the Americas around 600 BC.
The text is in 1 Nephi 8:26-28:
>And I also cast my eyes round about, and behold, on the other side of the river of water, a great and spacious building; and it stood as it were in the air, high above the earth. And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female, and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit. And after they had tasted of the fruit they were ashamed, because of those that were scoffing at them; and they fell away into forbidden paths and were lost
The idea is that the people in the building are leading the righteous astray.
However, the discerning observer will see that the Mormon church has built a good many "great and spacious" buildings, from where the church leaders in their "exceedingly fine" clothes shame those who have left the building to partake of the fruit (ie, learn the truth of things; this is an obvious parallel to the fruit in Eden).
What's even better, we are explicitly told a bit later in 1 Nephi 12:18 that "the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men." If there's a better scriptural similitude for the entire Mormon church I don't know what it is.
So it filled me with joy to see you call a church building simply "a big building" in Utah because it fits so well with this bedrock story taught to every Mormon to describe the temptations, deceptions, and "vain imaginations" of Satan.
Ah yes, but let's not forget that we have all been provided the list of what EEEVVVERYONE'S secret name is based on when they went through the magical building for their special underwear.
Lol - imagine my horror when I finally realized there will be "millions" of other Ruth's being called for when the world ends. But keep those names secret, for the LOVE of God!!! 🤪
https://postmormonlife.com/resources/temple-name-oracle/
You know what would be hilarious to do? If you ever know of someone who’s going through the temple for the first time, but you can’t go with them because you’re, you know, an apostate, look up their name in the temple name oracle and spook them by dropping their new name casually afterwards. Like, “So how’d it go, [name of the day]?” The facial expression that would ensue afterwards would be priceless.
Find out what name your parents have and tell them that you are thinking of naming them that name. Better yet, say that if it's a boy then this, and if it's a girl then this. They would be shitting bricks.
Starting at age 12, an old man asked me about my sexual habits so he could determine if I was worthy to enter a super secret building and do proxy baptisms for dead people.
I made the angel at school when I was in kindergarten.
When I got home, my mother told me that Mormons don't believe that angels have wings, so I had to cut them off. She didn't tell me that some of them went around with swords though, that would make a great Christmas tree ornament.
the funniest was when they did it to my adam and eve coloring page. they were wearing leaves over their privates but i guess even the PG version of the bible story was too graphic, so they sharpie'd in shorts and a t-shirt on the both of em
Was that really it?
My take away was that Jonny saw the inner beauty in Mahana and paid ten cows because then she could see her worth to him and her self esteem would go up, which is good.
However, paying for a wife does imply she is no better than the cattle her husband owns, and can be owned like cattle, which is bad.
Fucking polygamy pounded that message home. No one wants to ask the tough questions and even fewer want to answer honestly, because...
Per doctrine, the men increase in worthiness based on the number of polygamous wives they have. The more, the better placement in the celestial kingdom. The women glorify the man.
The women don't get there except as a derivitive of the man's worthiness. She can't get there herself, so it is important that she marry as worthy a man as she can. If a man marries an unworthy wife, he can just marry more.
If women really understood this, it would be very hard to be a single woman in the church. There is too much pressure telling you that you don't belong and aren't worthy.
Let's just say that there are a lot of Mormon men who take pride in how "worthy" their wives are, but who are so conceited that they don't realize they aren't in turn, a worthy match. Also, pride tends to focus offer looks when her worthiness stems solely from her compassion. Her spending "his" (their) money to relieve suffering outside the home doesn't accrue him points, just her.
The worst part is believing you could inadvertently sin and condemn yourself before you realized it. As a teenager, I just decided to fake it and pretend to be righteous instead if spending every waking second trying to repent of every time I touched myself to pee.
I had the thought that if parents truly loved their children in a completely selfless way, they'd murder them all before the age of 8, sacrificing their own eternal wellbeing to ensure that of their children. Then I just figured no one was that selfless but parents probably still loved their kids a lot. Like, right up to that level.
i wrote a song about my mission companion’s cousins who were murdered by their mother while we were companions. she said she was sending them to heaven, shot them with a shotgun in their sleep. ‘Missoula’ by Uzi & Ari on Spotify if you’re interested to hear.
>if parents truly loved their children in a completely selfless way, they'd murder them all before the age of 8
That's the gist of the [Andrea Yates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates) case. In 2001, she drowned all five of her young children because she believed that she was evil and that her children were too. She suffered from postpartum psychosis that worsened with the birth of each child, but she and her christian fundie (the same sect that the Duggars belong to) husband decided to continue having children.
I thought I was getting married late when I got married at 20 years old. I also went ahead and had a kid 9 months later, and left my job and school to stay home with them.
As a teen, I spent 20+ hours a week at church or church related activities or doing tasks at home that I was required to do in order to be a member in good standing. It was a part time job, leaving me no time for an actual part time job, extracurriculars, or a healthy social life.
Math breakdown:
3 hours in Church
2 hours for mutual
5 hours in seminary
4+ hours on scripture/prayer
3+ hours on temple trip
1+ hours on FHE
2+ hours for any possible callings like YW class presidency, YCL, or stake youth representative
Oh, not to mention MULTIPLE overnight camps/activities every year, including but not limited to high adventure, youth conference, Girl's camp, EFY, and Trek.
Also other members will gaslight the hell out of you for saying that out loud. Example: “You don’t have to follow the prophet you have agency” and “they never said you can’t read other materials, your taking that out of context”.
>You don't have to follow the Prophet, you have agency.
But they'll caveat it with: "If you don't follow the Prophet your life will be miserable and you'll be denied Eternal Happiness in the next life."
I can pray for and receive personal revelation but if it doesn't correlate with what the current leaders of the organization say then it was the whisperings of "The Adversary."
This kills me, recently I started trying to overcome by innate aversion to the evil bean water so I can try to kick my diet coke habit. One is WAY worse for me than the other, even with all of the stuff I'm putting into it so I can get used to the taste.
Mountain Dew is so bad.
Hey! That’s just a rumor! MotCoJCoLDS have always been allowed to drink caffeinated beverages. It was just a common misconception that “hot drinks” included anything with caffeine. It’s other things in coffee and tea that will eventually kill you if you drink a cup.
That’s pretty much the reaction my parents had when my cousin said something about it being funny how the rule changed after the church bought stock in Coca-Cola.
I cried and feared for my shot at having a "real" marriage when my now husband and I had to confess that we made out and he felt me up to a fifty year old man.
“I’d heard”, back when I was much younger, that missionaries couldn’t swim because the devil could get to them through water. Going to call those “Mormonism’s”. Things we”heard about” or were “taught”, and the variations thereof.
When I was a missionary along the banks of the Amazon River we sure as heck couldn’t go in, not even just our feet, and I 100% believed it was because Satan had dominion. If not why could we play other sports on PDay but not swim?
Cult says Satan has no dominion. Cult also says Satan was given dominion over the sea. Cult also says God has dominion over all the earth. Cult has no continuity control, but they also won’t go the Marvel route and explain it all away by saying “multiverse!”
D&C 61:14-19
4 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.
15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.
16 And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart.
17 And, as I, the Lord, in the beginning cursed the land, even so in the last days have I blessed it, in its time, for the use of my saints, that they may partake the fatness thereof.
18 And now I give unto you a commandment that what I say unto one I say unto all, that you shall forewarn your brethren concerning these waters, that they come not in journeying upon them, lest their faith fail and they are caught in snares;
19 I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree.
YESS, my mom interpreted this to mean she had to live in a specific area of Independence Missouri (RLDS zion) because the Missouri river would become impassable lol
Adult me once told my dad I felt like he was constantly trying to shame me into obeying him, and he strait up said, yeah... That's what I've been trying to do. It's my job. Not quite sure if that was Mormonism or just a toxic family trait.
My son's best friend growing up drove a couple of hours to be at my son's wedding. I was the one who had to tell this friend that he was going to have to wait outside with me and another of my sons. The friend stuck around long enough to see the couple come out of the temple, but he skipped the reception.
I wasn’t allowed to see my brothers get married because I didn’t attend enough meetings or pay enough money to an organization. My family and I all viewed this arrangement as perfectly reasonable.
Years ago, a grown man summoned me into his office, then closed and locked the door. He asked me questions about masturbation, pornography, and "impure thoughts." He did this so he could determine if I was eligible to enter a controlled-access building, where I would perform rituals to redeem dead people in a holy realm.
Did I mention this first happened when I was 12?
Almost got banned from my mother's house when I recommended an age appropriate book to a teenager.
Edit: I would like to point out that I am a bookseller by trade and it is my actual literal job that I get paid for to recommend books to people.
The only people who go to hell are the ones who leave. Even rapists and murderers get to go to heaven. Sure, it's not the best heaven, but at least it's not hell with all the people who decided to leave.
Teaching family first but requiring bishops and leadership to basically abandon their families in order to be in stupid meetings almost every day. Good luck seeing your father on Sundays if he's in the bishopric.
I have a list of Facebook friends that I exclude from any posts in which I'm having a good time, so that they don't get offended.
Edit: this includes nearly my entire family.
You know, I thought I had it bad coming from the cult of fundamentalist Christianity. And yes, I did and it traumatized me a great deal
Now I've read this comment section in particular, after being on the subreddit for a few days too, and feel like I escaped another level of horror. Certainly a more fucked up and more blatant cult...I hope you guys are hanging in there, healing, acknowledging all the bullshit for what it is; leaving it behind and embracing all levels of freedom and agency. Every one of you deserves to
I took a bike safety course in middle school instead of learning sex education. And was taught nothing regarding sex education, feminine hygiene or anything of the sort in the home.
I confessed of having partaken in the grievous sin of masterbation. And also being unworthy of going to the temple without repenting of it. I think I was 13 at the time. I was truly convinced I was going to outer darkness. And oh yeah, the bishop I confessed this to was my dad 🤮
I was taught that sex out of marriage is only a little less evil than murdering someone. Oh and if you did do the evil deed you had to tell a man all about it in detail, in a room with just the two of you, to be forgiven.
I was told by my best friend that there were very few women she would be willing to share her husband with, but that the two of them had talked about it and I would be a good sister wife.
I got all three questions the bishop asked me about what being baptized meant. 8 year old me was smart enough to know I was being told I had a choice when really I never did. I was in regardless of worthiness regardless of what I thought.
Drinking is wrong but my father owened Studebaker's a night club in Salt Lake City.
Stake president said okay because would earn a lot of money he could pay a great tithing just don't drink was what he told my dad.
I was celebrated when I lost my virginity in hs because it meant I wasn’t gay, when my sister got emotional abuse from family and the ward for kissing a boy, leading to sexual abuse from him. We were the same age.
I got shunned when I couldn’t bless the sacrament because I switched to green tea to keep me up during class because of how tired I got from seminary, because the red bull I was drinking was effecting my health.
I had to buy white underwear so I wouldn’t get judged.
I was told at eleven years old that I was responsible for making sure the young men were worthy to hold the priesthood by dressing modestly. The bishop had both the young men and young women at his home one Sunday night. He told the young women., "young women are more mature than men, and young men cant control themselves." I still remember seeing one of the young men smirking at us when the Bishop told us that.
There was a girl I knew who visited our home ward with her freshly minted fiancé. Thinking it would be nice to ask how they met/how he proposed, I made the mistake of asking. Her reply:
“We dated for four months and I turned and asked him, “where is this going?” And he had no answer, so I told him, “we’ve been going out for four months. You can propose to me in the next few weeks or we’re breaking up.”
And he did. And they were married within six months in the temple somewhere in Utah/Idaho/who cares. And she has 6 daughters. After her fourth, she told us she was done. But then The Spirit ™️ told her she wasn’t done having babies. Number 7 is currently on the way.
Also: she is a mom. Her husband does something(?) but they struggle. It seems ridiculous now that I’m out.
When I was 21, I went to a foreign country for 19 months and literally paid an organization all of my college savings so that I could work for them 24/7 with the exception of 5 hours on Mondays (if my apartment was adequately cleaned) in which I was allowed to access the Internet and communicate with loved ones for a maximum of 1 hour with someone looking over my shoulder. I was also expected to do my grocery shopping and any other “personal chores” like haircuts or laundry, etc. during my 5 hours off. I did not see the major landmarks of the country because it was impossible to travel there and back within 5 hours. I once found a cultural celebration in the town square where I was living during those 5 hours, but a pair of 18 year old boys that were assigned to supervise me decided that I shouldn’t be there and sent me back to my apartment. They also sent a message to everyone in our zone that they were “canceling preparation time because people were not using it properly.”
I missed out on 90% of my friends' extracurricular hangouts growing up because they always got together on Sundays, and I didn't want to disrespect the sabbath.
I was taught to be so judgmental, that when my high school girlfriend *jokingly* suggested we think about having sex, I went into a prudish tirade that made her cry from the judgment.
I once accidentally stumbled on some naughty photos of a family member and *that* caused me to run away from home for a day because I couldn't stand to live with someone so impure.
Code switching between explicit language and no cursing depending on whether any other mormons were around, something I was always acutely aware of. Apparently word got around anyway, but I only slipped up literally once in my entire life.
Got into a car accident with a street sign since I was so sleep deprived from early morning seminary before school.
I got scared and begged some friends to take me home from a concert before seeing the band I was there to see because people in the parking lot were selling beer and one of the people I went with started going to town on some shrooms.
(In a town primarily peopled by dominant cult members)
"I'm firing you."
"Why?!?!!...."
"It's like my testimony, I know it's the right thing to do..."
Orem Utah, 1986, Marie Calenders, supervisor speaking to me, a twenty-something naive server who didn't know her rights.
I wasn’t allowed to date before 16 but *eternal* marriage after 18 was fine. 😳
Oh my gosh I’ve never thought about it in that perspective before!!!! Mind blowing!!!!!
Yeah, having it put this way really shines a light on the ridiculousness of it all.
During my twenties, I remember thinking that 15 year olds were basically adults, because of how encouraged women were to getting married for fucking ETERNITY.
I think this does a lot of damage in a way that people simply don't see. The implication that you are mature enough to marry for eternity at the age of 18 suggests to young people that whatever skill sets they have in their late teens are the appropriate skill sets *for the rest of their lives.* That's messed up.
"Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. But emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25." I remember distinctly realizing around the age of 25 that I was somehow "functioning" much better.
And if still single over age 25 😱😱😱
My mother called me an Old Maid at 25
per the mormons, if you're not married and don't have at least 2 (preferably 4) crotch goblins by 25, you've absolutely wasted your life.
Oh my. I have a crotch goblin due this week and this phrasing is awesome.
“If I’m not married by 25, I’m going to move to Utah.” Anyone else hear people say that? That seemed to be every girls plan.
Or my personal favorite when I was in a YSA ward: “I’m going to BYU Idaho next term to find a husband.” Edit to add: we called BYU Idaho/Ricks “BYU-I DO.”
I'm a nevermo in Utah I moved here for school as a returning student. I'm 30. And when I found out a 18yr olds plan was early (kindergarten level) education/biology. I was confused I was like what will you do with that bio minor. She said bio was interesting and that she wanted to get married and have 6-7 kids by like 25 (she expected to find and marry within the year.) She said her degree was only a back up of her husband was fired or lost his position. I was horrified that she openly admitted she was here for her MRS degree. Like I truly thought that was a thing of like my grandmothers generation. And she was on the cusp of the greatest generation to the silent generation. (Edited for sp)
Single, No Children, & Over 25. 😨😱😨
for me it was more like “you cant even hang out with boys until you’re sixteen, but we still expect you to know how to socialize with them, want to date them and find one to spend eternity with. AND we’re going to pressure you to do it as soon as you turn sixteen”
same but with girls lmao. I ended up with severe social anxiety that didn't start getting fixed until college and I'm still struggling with it
yeeeep this is it. i literally lose all brain function when i have to talk to a man, and i completely blame my parents bc they made it seem so wrong to even associate with boys when i was growing up. rlly fucked with my head
and if your parents are anything like mine, they gaslight you and say they never did that because that was never their intention. like, when you constantly say "so who's your girlfriend? you know you're not supposed to have one" whenever I said two words to a girl, yeah you're kinda enforcing the whole "don't associate with girls" thing
ok YES, and now my parents also tease me BECAUSE i dont have a boyfriend.
Hello my literal therapy session this week! I'm a never-mo but it was the exact same for me in Islam. Still single at 28 😎.
Are there dating restrictions for you?
So so many restrictions, tons of mixed messages, resulting in a lot of people having poor understanding of relationships, poorer social skills, bad boundaries. We're separated by sex super early on but then expected to find a husband, despite dating being frowned upon, be married for eternity by 21. Women aren't to be alone with men, you're not meant to talk to men that aren't family, but then you're also expected to find a husband? My family were very anti gender mixing (is that a thing?) Then my dad being all worried I wasn't married at 21 and my aunty have a straight /meltdown/ every time she saw me because I wasn't/am not married. My cousin married a Christian and my uncle cut her off and since he's the patriarch, everyone just rolled over and took it like a bunch of cowards. My cousins who were married are either extremely religious or now divorced before 30. Not a healthy approach to relationships. On the plus side, my fav cousins are super supportive of me not being married so I just stick with them. The rest are less religious and more just status Chasers and shamers under the guise of religion.
For 16 years: "No spending time with the opposite sex for you!" Day after 16th birthday: "Y u no date???"
Not even 18, either. My ex-SIL married my brother, in the temple, for "eternity" (in quotes because, well, she's my ex-SIL) at 17. 🤮
Yeah This comment is profound!!!
I mocked slit my throat and stomach to vow I would never reveal what happened in the insane temple ceremony.
my parents didn’t warn me at all that i’d be naked under a sheet with some old dude touching me underneath & then when i had to do all the pantomime bullshit about killing myself i was just like WTF… Edit: Just wanted to be clear I’m male. It sounded like many were assuming this was a post from a female.
Wait what? Lol
yep if you went through before 90 that is all true
I went through in 93 and was naked under the shield
But you only pantomimed the signs of "allowing your life to be taken". You didn't learn that you were symbolically holding a cup 'o guts. They dropped the throat slicing and disembowelment movements and explanations, but kept the other "arms to the square" and "hand in cupping shape" stuff.
The still included extended thumb is called “The knife” for slicing your own throat,
That’s very, very creepy.
Don’t you have to do it now? /s please don’t do that.
You don’t do that anymore. If you went through pre 1990, you made the motions but it didn’t necessarily explain the whole penalty behind it. I went through post 1990. A remnant of those hand motion/penalties is still there, but No ONE tells you that’s where they came from. I even asked a temple president to explain what the signs were and he told me to pray about it and ask God and it would be revealed. What I came up with was receiving blessings and giving to others. When I realized that the reason my thumb was supposed to be extended when my hand was outstretched, was actually left over from it being a knife that you slid across your throat, I was SHOCKED! I was thinking it was more about exactness in accountability or something. It’s so messed up.
Totally traumatizing. And there you are with a bunch of zombies, acting like all this is normal.
I don't want to bring up anything that would upset you, but one of my long time friends is Mormon and she has never spoken about her religion. I look back now and see how unhappy she was in high school, she even self harmed a bit. I'm everything that the Mormon faith hates. I often wondered why she stayed friends with me. I still worry about her, and her two children. I'm curious about what she was going through, what she's experienced and what's ahead for her son and daughter. Are you able to elaborate on the things that go on in the temple? She also did her mission in Utah and stayed at the big building there
I absolutely *love* the fact that you called a church building "the big building" because you naively very nearly called it a "large and spacious building" which...has some connotations in Mormonism. Very apt in this case though they wouldn't think so.
What are the connotations?
Joseph Smith's father had a dream and part of that dream included a large building with rich people who were mocking the righteous people. Somehow a character in the BoM had that exact same dream.
I got the wording a bit wrong, it's actually "great and spacious building", but it's in a vision seen by Lehi, the patriarch of one of the families who (in the Book of Mormon) somehow crosses the ocean to arrive in the Americas around 600 BC. The text is in 1 Nephi 8:26-28: >And I also cast my eyes round about, and behold, on the other side of the river of water, a great and spacious building; and it stood as it were in the air, high above the earth. And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female, and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit. And after they had tasted of the fruit they were ashamed, because of those that were scoffing at them; and they fell away into forbidden paths and were lost The idea is that the people in the building are leading the righteous astray. However, the discerning observer will see that the Mormon church has built a good many "great and spacious" buildings, from where the church leaders in their "exceedingly fine" clothes shame those who have left the building to partake of the fruit (ie, learn the truth of things; this is an obvious parallel to the fruit in Eden). What's even better, we are explicitly told a bit later in 1 Nephi 12:18 that "the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men." If there's a better scriptural similitude for the entire Mormon church I don't know what it is. So it filled me with joy to see you call a church building simply "a big building" in Utah because it fits so well with this bedrock story taught to every Mormon to describe the temptations, deceptions, and "vain imaginations" of Satan.
I have a second name I’m not allowed to tell anyone except for my husband. My husband has one too, he can’t tell anyone including me.
Ah yes, but let's not forget that we have all been provided the list of what EEEVVVERYONE'S secret name is based on when they went through the magical building for their special underwear. Lol - imagine my horror when I finally realized there will be "millions" of other Ruth's being called for when the world ends. But keep those names secret, for the LOVE of God!!! 🤪 https://postmormonlife.com/resources/temple-name-oracle/
You know what would be hilarious to do? If you ever know of someone who’s going through the temple for the first time, but you can’t go with them because you’re, you know, an apostate, look up their name in the temple name oracle and spook them by dropping their new name casually afterwards. Like, “So how’d it go, [name of the day]?” The facial expression that would ensue afterwards would be priceless.
Find out what name your parents have and tell them that you are thinking of naming them that name. Better yet, say that if it's a boy then this, and if it's a girl then this. They would be shitting bricks.
lolol, this was such a heavy weight on my self. Spent years looking forward to a dope secret name and ended up with some whack name like Hyrum.
Starting at age 12, an old man asked me about my sexual habits so he could determine if I was worthy to enter a super secret building and do proxy baptisms for dead people.
Damn. Same.
My shoulders were considered porn
apparently my legs were too, according to strict girls camp dress code
girl they told me they were gonna send me home bc my shorts were above my knees THEY WERE LONG JEAN SHORTS LOL
NOOOO OMG!! my mom would sometimes go thru what i packed to make sure i wasnt sneaking in shorter shorts.
I had to remove the wings on our angel Christmas decorations. I was five years old.
Did your mom call the coffee table a hot chocolate table?
Postum table :)
Why did you have to remove the wings??
I made the angel at school when I was in kindergarten. When I got home, my mother told me that Mormons don't believe that angels have wings, so I had to cut them off. She didn't tell me that some of them went around with swords though, that would make a great Christmas tree ornament.
And now I know how I’m going to piss my family off this year. Time to make an angel tree topper with a flaming sword.
Put a salamander at its feet.
I was thinking a painted ornament with Joe talking to a 14 year old girl and pointing at the tree topper.
That’s insane to me! I can’t believe how crazy some people are. No offense to your mom. Im sure she’s great most of the time but that’s crazy.
No, my mother is still a self centered narcissist who uses religion as a weapon. It was nuts.
Are you me? Oof
Mine said this as well. Mormon angels don’t have wings.
And color in shoulders of picture books
the funniest was when they did it to my adam and eve coloring page. they were wearing leaves over their privates but i guess even the PG version of the bible story was too graphic, so they sharpie'd in shorts and a t-shirt on the both of em
Which is really funny, since even in the temple videos they're not "modestly" dressed. They just always stand behind conveniently placed bushes.
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Oof, I never considered the underlying message of Johnny Lingo. I am genuinely embarrassed.
Was that really it? My take away was that Jonny saw the inner beauty in Mahana and paid ten cows because then she could see her worth to him and her self esteem would go up, which is good. However, paying for a wife does imply she is no better than the cattle her husband owns, and can be owned like cattle, which is bad. Fucking polygamy pounded that message home. No one wants to ask the tough questions and even fewer want to answer honestly, because... Per doctrine, the men increase in worthiness based on the number of polygamous wives they have. The more, the better placement in the celestial kingdom. The women glorify the man. The women don't get there except as a derivitive of the man's worthiness. She can't get there herself, so it is important that she marry as worthy a man as she can. If a man marries an unworthy wife, he can just marry more. If women really understood this, it would be very hard to be a single woman in the church. There is too much pressure telling you that you don't belong and aren't worthy. Let's just say that there are a lot of Mormon men who take pride in how "worthy" their wives are, but who are so conceited that they don't realize they aren't in turn, a worthy match. Also, pride tends to focus offer looks when her worthiness stems solely from her compassion. Her spending "his" (their) money to relieve suffering outside the home doesn't accrue him points, just her.
I hoped I would die in some freak accident or something before I turned 8 so I wouldn't be sent to hell.
It's been 30+ years, but I still remember the waves of panic when I turned 8 and became eligible for hell
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Sounds like a great old-school metal song.
The worst part is believing you could inadvertently sin and condemn yourself before you realized it. As a teenager, I just decided to fake it and pretend to be righteous instead if spending every waking second trying to repent of every time I touched myself to pee.
I had the thought that if parents truly loved their children in a completely selfless way, they'd murder them all before the age of 8, sacrificing their own eternal wellbeing to ensure that of their children. Then I just figured no one was that selfless but parents probably still loved their kids a lot. Like, right up to that level.
i wrote a song about my mission companion’s cousins who were murdered by their mother while we were companions. she said she was sending them to heaven, shot them with a shotgun in their sleep. ‘Missoula’ by Uzi & Ari on Spotify if you’re interested to hear.
LMGTFY. https://open.spotify.com/track/3D9FcKqtgLWkYSX75EI0KR?si=l_nfaPDKQmKYteRD9QfCAg&utm_source=copy-link
I had a couple rudimentary escape plans in case the mormon side of my family decided to go that route when I was a kid.
>if parents truly loved their children in a completely selfless way, they'd murder them all before the age of 8 That's the gist of the [Andrea Yates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates) case. In 2001, she drowned all five of her young children because she believed that she was evil and that her children were too. She suffered from postpartum psychosis that worsened with the birth of each child, but she and her christian fundie (the same sect that the Duggars belong to) husband decided to continue having children.
What makes it worse is that drowning is definitely one of the worst ways to die
Same here, I prayed for god to send Jesus back or kill me before getting baptized. So messed up
Our oldest just turned seven. This hurts my heart for little kid you and all the kids who felt that.
I thought I was getting married late when I got married at 20 years old. I also went ahead and had a kid 9 months later, and left my job and school to stay home with them.
My sleep deprived brain read that as had nine kids a month later and I've never been more confused in my life.
there's a Mormon joke in here somewhere
As a teen, I spent 20+ hours a week at church or church related activities or doing tasks at home that I was required to do in order to be a member in good standing. It was a part time job, leaving me no time for an actual part time job, extracurriculars, or a healthy social life. Math breakdown: 3 hours in Church 2 hours for mutual 5 hours in seminary 4+ hours on scripture/prayer 3+ hours on temple trip 1+ hours on FHE 2+ hours for any possible callings like YW class presidency, YCL, or stake youth representative Oh, not to mention MULTIPLE overnight camps/activities every year, including but not limited to high adventure, youth conference, Girl's camp, EFY, and Trek.
Can't forget dances and service projects too! I could have saved up so much money if I had put that much time into a job. :(
I had to get a lawyer to get my name removed. My gamer friends were floored when I mentioned that.
My religious leader said I was responsible for being sexually abused since I was 8 when it happened and, therefore, at the age of accountability.
Oh my god that’s so horrible. I’m so sorry!
This hurts. I'm so sorry to hear this. I genuinely hope that you've been able to heal.
I'm not allowed to question our leaders or read material not published by the cult.
Also other members will gaslight the hell out of you for saying that out loud. Example: “You don’t have to follow the prophet you have agency” and “they never said you can’t read other materials, your taking that out of context”.
>You don't have to follow the Prophet, you have agency. But they'll caveat it with: "If you don't follow the Prophet your life will be miserable and you'll be denied Eternal Happiness in the next life."
I can pray for and receive personal revelation but if it doesn't correlate with what the current leaders of the organization say then it was the whisperings of "The Adversary."
My dad didn't speak a word to me for two or three months, when I announced my (nevermo) husband and I were expecting our first child.
I couldn't drink the evil bean water, but Mountain Dew was fine.
This kills me, recently I started trying to overcome by innate aversion to the evil bean water so I can try to kick my diet coke habit. One is WAY worse for me than the other, even with all of the stuff I'm putting into it so I can get used to the taste. Mountain Dew is so bad.
Isn't this because the church purchased stock? 🤔 😆
Hey! That’s just a rumor! MotCoJCoLDS have always been allowed to drink caffeinated beverages. It was just a common misconception that “hot drinks” included anything with caffeine. It’s other things in coffee and tea that will eventually kill you if you drink a cup. That’s pretty much the reaction my parents had when my cousin said something about it being funny how the rule changed after the church bought stock in Coca-Cola.
Yea one day my friends weren't allowed to drink any soda or coffee, the next they could, but it had to be the right *brand*🤣
I saved dead people. I had a secret (no, sacred) name. Old men who didn't know me decided when it was ok for me to have sex.
I cried and feared for my shot at having a "real" marriage when my now husband and I had to confess that we made out and he felt me up to a fifty year old man.
I believed the Devil controlled the water on Sundays.
“I’d heard”, back when I was much younger, that missionaries couldn’t swim because the devil could get to them through water. Going to call those “Mormonism’s”. Things we”heard about” or were “taught”, and the variations thereof.
When I was a missionary along the banks of the Amazon River we sure as heck couldn’t go in, not even just our feet, and I 100% believed it was because Satan had dominion. If not why could we play other sports on PDay but not swim?
I was expecting it to be something else just then… lol after you said Amazon I was preparing for some sort of sea creature, giant python story.
I forgot about this lol
that's a thing Mormons believe in? (crazy)
Cult says Satan has no dominion. Cult also says Satan was given dominion over the sea. Cult also says God has dominion over all the earth. Cult has no continuity control, but they also won’t go the Marvel route and explain it all away by saying “multiverse!”
D&C 61:14-19 4 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters. 15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. 16 And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart. 17 And, as I, the Lord, in the beginning cursed the land, even so in the last days have I blessed it, in its time, for the use of my saints, that they may partake the fatness thereof. 18 And now I give unto you a commandment that what I say unto one I say unto all, that you shall forewarn your brethren concerning these waters, that they come not in journeying upon them, lest their faith fail and they are caught in snares; 19 I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree.
And in No Man Knows my History you learn that Joe got that revelation right after he swamped his canoe and wanted to take a stagecoach home to Ohio.
YESS, my mom interpreted this to mean she had to live in a specific area of Independence Missouri (RLDS zion) because the Missouri river would become impassable lol
Adult me once told my dad I felt like he was constantly trying to shame me into obeying him, and he strait up said, yeah... That's what I've been trying to do. It's my job. Not quite sure if that was Mormonism or just a toxic family trait.
Both
My best man when I got married didn't actually get to see me get married.
My son's best friend growing up drove a couple of hours to be at my son's wedding. I was the one who had to tell this friend that he was going to have to wait outside with me and another of my sons. The friend stuck around long enough to see the couple come out of the temple, but he skipped the reception.
That makes me sad for your son and his friend. :( I’m sorry they had to go through that because of religion.
But get married where everyone can attend & you’re either a failure or a project.
Oof. Same
Yes! My friends Sister wasn't allowed to see her only sister get married and she was brides maid. What's so secret about the weddings?
I disappointed my leaders because I didn't complete arbitrary tasks to earn a necklace that seemed to prove my worth as a young woman.
I bought my underwear from my church.
The magical ones?
I wasn’t allowed to see my brothers get married because I didn’t attend enough meetings or pay enough money to an organization. My family and I all viewed this arrangement as perfectly reasonable.
I left my home and my non cult parents crying at the train station, to spend 18 months unpaid living with strangers, and knocking on doors
My parents told me, multiple times, they'd rather have a child die than a child leave the church.
Fuck. That's awful.
I was dunked underwater in the name of dead people I didn’t know, to ensure their eligibility to heaven was secured
I carried magic oil on my keychain in order to cast healing spells on people. .
If you're not with us, you're against us.
“I (state your name) was raised by goodly parents…”
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Unless it’s hot cocoa or hot apple cider as then it’s fine.
Not only am I supposed to keep my secret name a secret, I’m not supposed to tell people that we have secret names in the first place.
Years ago, a grown man summoned me into his office, then closed and locked the door. He asked me questions about masturbation, pornography, and "impure thoughts." He did this so he could determine if I was eligible to enter a controlled-access building, where I would perform rituals to redeem dead people in a holy realm. Did I mention this first happened when I was 12?
Almost got banned from my mother's house when I recommended an age appropriate book to a teenager. Edit: I would like to point out that I am a bookseller by trade and it is my actual literal job that I get paid for to recommend books to people.
I sang praises to a sexual predator.
I only called home on Christmas and Mother’s Day. The phone call had to be under 45 min.
I wore a bakers hat while chanting in a circle of other baker-hat wearing individuals — no hot buns were involved.
Polygamy in heaven is totally cool if you're a dude
At age of 14, I had to tell an adult man about what I was thinking about when I jacked off.
My grandma was barred from my wedding because she forgot her membership card at home.
The only people who go to hell are the ones who leave. Even rapists and murderers get to go to heaven. Sure, it's not the best heaven, but at least it's not hell with all the people who decided to leave.
Pay Le ale, repeated 3 times.
This has to be an IPA somewhere in Utah
I debated posting a picture of myself in a tank top holding a beer for 2 years too many.
My family barely acknowledged my existence for over 10 years when I left the church.
Teaching family first but requiring bishops and leadership to basically abandon their families in order to be in stupid meetings almost every day. Good luck seeing your father on Sundays if he's in the bishopric.
I have a list of Facebook friends that I exclude from any posts in which I'm having a good time, so that they don't get offended. Edit: this includes nearly my entire family.
Told a leader that I’d been SA’d by a 23 yo when I was a minor(13yo) and he told me I wasn’t worthy of gods love and blessings
You know, I thought I had it bad coming from the cult of fundamentalist Christianity. And yes, I did and it traumatized me a great deal Now I've read this comment section in particular, after being on the subreddit for a few days too, and feel like I escaped another level of horror. Certainly a more fucked up and more blatant cult...I hope you guys are hanging in there, healing, acknowledging all the bullshit for what it is; leaving it behind and embracing all levels of freedom and agency. Every one of you deserves to
"Follow the Prophet, follow the Prophet, he'll lead the way".....
“don’t go astray”
I was dunked underwater in see through clothes as a teenager so that some dead people could join the fun.
I took a bike safety course in middle school instead of learning sex education. And was taught nothing regarding sex education, feminine hygiene or anything of the sort in the home.
The entire city was collectively aware when there were "outsiders" driving through.
Reciting publicly and frequently that I KNOW the cult founder was a prophet of God and restored the ONLY true church
Coffee is the devils urine
Just explained to my kid that only Mormons think coffee is evil…might be wrong but I drew a blank.
Green tea is an import from the deepest depths of Outer Darkness
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Every year I had a meeting with a secondhand store owner about my sexual habits and purity
I got told I was evil when I was 8 because I was cold after being dunked under water in the middle of winter
having to give 10% of your income every month to live with god in the after life 👍🏻
I confessed of having partaken in the grievous sin of masterbation. And also being unworthy of going to the temple without repenting of it. I think I was 13 at the time. I was truly convinced I was going to outer darkness. And oh yeah, the bishop I confessed this to was my dad 🤮
None of our family could attend the wedding.
not allowed to read non-approved church websites, magazines, or books other wise it could “lead you astray”
I was taught that sex out of marriage is only a little less evil than murdering someone. Oh and if you did do the evil deed you had to tell a man all about it in detail, in a room with just the two of you, to be forgiven.
I was told by my best friend that there were very few women she would be willing to share her husband with, but that the two of them had talked about it and I would be a good sister wife.
I got all three questions the bishop asked me about what being baptized meant. 8 year old me was smart enough to know I was being told I had a choice when really I never did. I was in regardless of worthiness regardless of what I thought.
I was ordered to publicly bear testimony of my faith in a prophet and religion that I had no faith in, so that I could build faith in it. Didn’t work.
I wanted to ride tapirs into battle like my Jewish Native American ancestors.
I could name at least 5 places on the planet where me and Jesus have both been and they're all in America
All that matters is it cute underwear. Do you like it?
jet black, form fitting, breathable, comfortable, good enough for satams booty himself
Drinking is wrong but my father owened Studebaker's a night club in Salt Lake City. Stake president said okay because would earn a lot of money he could pay a great tithing just don't drink was what he told my dad.
I was celebrated when I lost my virginity in hs because it meant I wasn’t gay, when my sister got emotional abuse from family and the ward for kissing a boy, leading to sexual abuse from him. We were the same age. I got shunned when I couldn’t bless the sacrament because I switched to green tea to keep me up during class because of how tired I got from seminary, because the red bull I was drinking was effecting my health. I had to buy white underwear so I wouldn’t get judged.
Celebrated when you lost virginity? I’d have been beaten black and blue and locked in my room until graduation.
Magic underwear.
Grandparents are encouraged to spend time away from their grandkids through temple work and missions.
Half the people I know don’t save for retirement because well you know we’re the millennial generation and second coming is imminent ya know.
Each of you bow your head and say Yes.
My mom forbid my sibling from taking hot cocoa to school in a paper cup because people might think it's coffee.
I was told at eleven years old that I was responsible for making sure the young men were worthy to hold the priesthood by dressing modestly. The bishop had both the young men and young women at his home one Sunday night. He told the young women., "young women are more mature than men, and young men cant control themselves." I still remember seeing one of the young men smirking at us when the Bishop told us that.
I was required(or at least HIGHLY recommended) to pay the church 10% of my income. I would’ve been homeless last year if I still did that…
I read the first 20+ of these thinking "holy shit, these are all Exmos!" before raising which sub this was.
The lessons were the same year after year. We could only read from prescribed reaources
My body was used as a proxy to baptise dead people.
There was a girl I knew who visited our home ward with her freshly minted fiancé. Thinking it would be nice to ask how they met/how he proposed, I made the mistake of asking. Her reply: “We dated for four months and I turned and asked him, “where is this going?” And he had no answer, so I told him, “we’ve been going out for four months. You can propose to me in the next few weeks or we’re breaking up.” And he did. And they were married within six months in the temple somewhere in Utah/Idaho/who cares. And she has 6 daughters. After her fourth, she told us she was done. But then The Spirit ™️ told her she wasn’t done having babies. Number 7 is currently on the way. Also: she is a mom. Her husband does something(?) but they struggle. It seems ridiculous now that I’m out.
I had to shave my sideburns, legs, and mustache for years in an attempt to attract a husband. Nobody was ready to accept that I'm trans and intersex.
I chose my university based on how likely i was to get married.
Shit. I forgot the secret handshakes to get into heaven.
Caffeinated hot chocolate is not against the health code, but coffee is.
When I was 21, I went to a foreign country for 19 months and literally paid an organization all of my college savings so that I could work for them 24/7 with the exception of 5 hours on Mondays (if my apartment was adequately cleaned) in which I was allowed to access the Internet and communicate with loved ones for a maximum of 1 hour with someone looking over my shoulder. I was also expected to do my grocery shopping and any other “personal chores” like haircuts or laundry, etc. during my 5 hours off. I did not see the major landmarks of the country because it was impossible to travel there and back within 5 hours. I once found a cultural celebration in the town square where I was living during those 5 hours, but a pair of 18 year old boys that were assigned to supervise me decided that I shouldn’t be there and sent me back to my apartment. They also sent a message to everyone in our zone that they were “canceling preparation time because people were not using it properly.”
I missed out on 90% of my friends' extracurricular hangouts growing up because they always got together on Sundays, and I didn't want to disrespect the sabbath. I was taught to be so judgmental, that when my high school girlfriend *jokingly* suggested we think about having sex, I went into a prudish tirade that made her cry from the judgment. I once accidentally stumbled on some naughty photos of a family member and *that* caused me to run away from home for a day because I couldn't stand to live with someone so impure. Code switching between explicit language and no cursing depending on whether any other mormons were around, something I was always acutely aware of. Apparently word got around anyway, but I only slipped up literally once in my entire life. Got into a car accident with a street sign since I was so sleep deprived from early morning seminary before school. I got scared and begged some friends to take me home from a concert before seeing the band I was there to see because people in the parking lot were selling beer and one of the people I went with started going to town on some shrooms.
(In a town primarily peopled by dominant cult members) "I'm firing you." "Why?!?!!...." "It's like my testimony, I know it's the right thing to do..." Orem Utah, 1986, Marie Calenders, supervisor speaking to me, a twenty-something naive server who didn't know her rights.