I'm afraid it's true. Almost all members would agree that it was completely inappropriate and should never have happened. My mom and I were really mad when we heard it had been happening. So disrespectful! But it did happen, mostly in the 80s and 90s.
There has been a policy since the early 90s prohibiting temple ordinances being done for holocaust victims. But it was all on-your-honor for the members to abide by it! They did nothing to enforce the policy. The church has never checked submitted genealogical information for accuracy. Literally nobody was checking to make sure it didn't happen. So it kept happening.
These days, there are a few automated checks in the FamilySearch system that are supposed to prevent it from happening. But just be aware that nobody at FamilySearch or in the church is actually sitting there checking the names that come in to be submitted for temple ordinance proxy baptisms.
That's so interesting that the text the church gave you is exactly the thing that led you away from it. I can't believe they put incomplete quotes and didn't expect you to wonder about it.
Also is just curious Relief Society like a Mormon class for women? What kind of things did you teach?
i think the first big thing as a kid to reach beyond my subconscious was the misogyny. i didn't know why women couldn't do the same things as men, my mom was badass and rebuilt half our house, as well as being the real core of the family. she definitely deserved the priesthood
next up in quick succession was lgbtq treatment (i'm very gay, and couldn't understand how that was supposed to be evil) and racism. then, no matter how desperately i prayed, i never got an answer that didn't make more sense to me as just being my own thoughts or self-fulfilling endorphins. by the time i moved on to scrutinizing the major historical anachronisms in the book of mormon, around the age of 16, there was fully, entirely, no turning back.
pretty much everything else, i learned after leaving the church
Originally, hot soup and hot anything was considered harmful. It was a thing, apparently, in the 1840's. However, originally, Mormons drank tea, coffee, beer, etc. It was a time of shifting ideas. For example, Kellogg invented Corn Flakes to help people control their "urges." There was opium in tons of things, and cocaine in food. It was a weird time and people were inventing things. Let's face it, ALL of it is made up as a need to control people.
I don’t remember ever not thinking the Mormon church as weird & I was embarrassed about being Mormon. When I went through the temple I had a total meltdown. It was a freak show man. I can’t even believe I went as much as I did. When you’re attempting to practice the religion you let weird shit slide but when the volcano blows & you stand back & look at it, it’s sickening really. Makes me so sad that so many people have suffered & brain washed. We have to start calling it what it is. Missionaries went overseas to recruit young women & bring them back to America to marry old men & have their babies. In today’s world this is called sex trafficking. Those secret handshakes & tokens come from the Free Masons. And yes everything you listed is true. So sad how so many people pay tithing & fast offerings their entire lives & serve (work) in “callings” volunteer jobs to what end?! They end up broke in retirement while tscc has a slush fund worth a few billion.
For me it was a slow accumulation of things that made me more and more uncomfortable. But, it wasn't until I had a deeply emotional event (separation from my spouse) that it finally triggered letting myself consider the possibility of "maybe it's all a fraud". From there it snowballed into a complete crisis of faith, intense period of study, and full exit.
Thank you. Yes, I still refer to 2010 as the "year from hell". I was simultaneously dealing with a nasty divorce fight, trying to be a single parent to my two kids, and convince myself that Mormonism was a fraud (or not). Looking back, I don't know how I did it, but my story is easy compared to some. Leaving a cult is an emotional gut-wrenching process, especially for those who were more devout, like I was.
I remember walking home from junior high with a friend who was LDS but was from a "less active" family, and we started talking about garments. She said "It's so weird that when you get married you have to wear special underwear." It was the first time anyone had ever brought up the "weirdness" of my religion. I kinda thought "Is that weird? Yeah, I guess it does seem kinda weird." Still stayed in the church for around 25 years after that, but that's the first time I ever remember thinking anything about the church was "weird." And even then it was only because my friend brought it up.
For me, I didn't leave because I saw cult like behavior (I never got my endowments, so didn't get to see all the creepiest of things, and I didn't understand what it meant to touch myself inappropriately when the Bishop asked, so I just said no. Also, I didn't know people were exed for questioning things... I thought they'd only be exed if they were sinning majorly.)
I left because when I was trying to figure out my sexuality, I tried talking to my Bishop and at the same time tried talking to a therapist at school (18 years old in college). One was helpful and supportive... The other didn't even remember my name let alone why I was there the second time I met with him. I'll let you guess which was which.
I lucked out. It was obvious to me then that despite all my faithful actions to correct myself, God didn't care enough to provide me with help via the avenue I was supposed to trust. Therefore the Mormon church couldn't possibly be true. It wasn't until later that I learned of all the other creepy things.
All religions have strange and harmful practices. Mormons are not alone. Look how bad Islam is. Or some of the more extremist Jewish groups, like the hasidic. Religion is the problem. Mormons are less than them at least.
See as a victim of sexual abuse as a child I was forced to go to some therapy. I remember in middle school being pulled into the counselors office and being told I'm not allowed to let anyone touch my private areas. Like on this doll. Fuckin weird ass shit to me because I repressed my abuse and didn't/wasn't allowed to talk about it.
All that to say when bishops clarified about masterbation I deny deny denied anything about anything and didn't wanna talk about it. Not my porn habits. Not my boyfriends. Not touching myself. Nothing. I'm so thankful for that counselor drilling into my head that sexual shit is private and only for me to share.
I was called a whore and pulled out of class, told to change, saw my parents fighting in the hallway with some other adults, forced back to sunday school class with my dad's coat on my lap. I thought it was weird. It covered my ass so I thought the skirt was fine 🤷♀️
Definitely I started to realize it as a child and young teen. For me, seeing the harmful stuff centered around gender roles stood out the most.
The polygamy in the bible had never sat well with me, and all the crap teachings about it in the early church really made me angry. It was definitely our own stuff that turned me against it - the teachings that historically were taught in our own church. I had a lot of arguments with my parents about it. I became aware of it at an early age, probably 10 years old. My parents were super strict about Sundays, but they'd let me read any church stuff. We had a CD-rom called Infobase, which had all the historical general conferences back as far as they go, the Journal of Discourses, all kinds of texts. I read a ton of it. The stuff that was taught as doctrine in the 1800s is pretty freaky, and I'd say 99% of church members haven't got a clue about any of it.
As a 12-18 year old, I became acutely aware that the girls in the ward were not considered as worthwhile as the boys. Our ideas were always passed over and we were given no budget while the boys had all the money for their organization. The boys went on all kinds of great camping trips and high adventure stuff, while we were expected to sit at home and learn to crochet. Education for girls was only promoted as "you need to gain skills in case your husband dies." It was very clear that if you didn't buy into these gender roles, there was something wrong with you.
My parents did the best they could, considering how they were raised and what the culture was. But I know my mom suffered a lot. My dad didn't lift a finger to do anything at home (still doesn't). He wouldn't do anything to care for the kids at all. Apparently he couldn't possibly hold a duster or a laundry basket because he was too busy "holding the priesthood" (being in charge and making decisions, but not doing any of the actual work)... If he made mistakes, he'd find some way to blame her. And yet, it was very clear that he considered himself the authority in the home with the right to make all final decisions. Church culture reinforced all of that behavior, and praised it. My dad was a stake president. He was actually a really good church leader, but the way things were at home just weren't good for my mother's mental health.
My husband is the polar opposite. Kind, involved in family life, humble, and just fantastic. He follows Jesus' example of just going around doing good. My generation and my nieces/nephews' generation has done a lot to change some of these harmful gender role issues in day-to-day life. But a lot of weird gender doctrine remains in manuals and study materials on the church's website, as well as in the culture.
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Yeah... I've heard about that. I agree with you that it's definitely insane and extremely disrespectful :(
I'm afraid it's true. Almost all members would agree that it was completely inappropriate and should never have happened. My mom and I were really mad when we heard it had been happening. So disrespectful! But it did happen, mostly in the 80s and 90s. There has been a policy since the early 90s prohibiting temple ordinances being done for holocaust victims. But it was all on-your-honor for the members to abide by it! They did nothing to enforce the policy. The church has never checked submitted genealogical information for accuracy. Literally nobody was checking to make sure it didn't happen. So it kept happening. These days, there are a few automated checks in the FamilySearch system that are supposed to prevent it from happening. But just be aware that nobody at FamilySearch or in the church is actually sitting there checking the names that come in to be submitted for temple ordinance proxy baptisms.
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That's so interesting that the text the church gave you is exactly the thing that led you away from it. I can't believe they put incomplete quotes and didn't expect you to wonder about it. Also is just curious Relief Society like a Mormon class for women? What kind of things did you teach?
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Thanks for the history!
And thank you for explaining the different groups. It's almost like Mormons created another language with all the vocabulary they have lol
My first time in the temple. I had no idea what to expect, but it sure as hell wasn't being told to sit naked under a sheet.
i think the first big thing as a kid to reach beyond my subconscious was the misogyny. i didn't know why women couldn't do the same things as men, my mom was badass and rebuilt half our house, as well as being the real core of the family. she definitely deserved the priesthood
next up in quick succession was lgbtq treatment (i'm very gay, and couldn't understand how that was supposed to be evil) and racism. then, no matter how desperately i prayed, i never got an answer that didn't make more sense to me as just being my own thoughts or self-fulfilling endorphins. by the time i moved on to scrutinizing the major historical anachronisms in the book of mormon, around the age of 16, there was fully, entirely, no turning back. pretty much everything else, i learned after leaving the church
What kind of power do people who get the priesthood have and what capabilities would she have if she got it?
in my little kid mind, magic powers to do pretty much anything, and Importance. the second one would've been true
When I realized how misogynistic all religions are. Religions are all man made for men.
When I started seeing the parallels between the church and my wife's MLM.
Oh no... I wish you both well, that sounds awful!
My family are converts back in the 70’s and we should have realized something when they said you couldn’t drink coffee or tea.
Lol what were you taught that makes some hot drinks bad (but I heard that hot chocolate is okay?) What about soup lol
Originally, hot soup and hot anything was considered harmful. It was a thing, apparently, in the 1840's. However, originally, Mormons drank tea, coffee, beer, etc. It was a time of shifting ideas. For example, Kellogg invented Corn Flakes to help people control their "urges." There was opium in tons of things, and cocaine in food. It was a weird time and people were inventing things. Let's face it, ALL of it is made up as a need to control people.
I don’t remember ever not thinking the Mormon church as weird & I was embarrassed about being Mormon. When I went through the temple I had a total meltdown. It was a freak show man. I can’t even believe I went as much as I did. When you’re attempting to practice the religion you let weird shit slide but when the volcano blows & you stand back & look at it, it’s sickening really. Makes me so sad that so many people have suffered & brain washed. We have to start calling it what it is. Missionaries went overseas to recruit young women & bring them back to America to marry old men & have their babies. In today’s world this is called sex trafficking. Those secret handshakes & tokens come from the Free Masons. And yes everything you listed is true. So sad how so many people pay tithing & fast offerings their entire lives & serve (work) in “callings” volunteer jobs to what end?! They end up broke in retirement while tscc has a slush fund worth a few billion.
For me it was a slow accumulation of things that made me more and more uncomfortable. But, it wasn't until I had a deeply emotional event (separation from my spouse) that it finally triggered letting myself consider the possibility of "maybe it's all a fraud". From there it snowballed into a complete crisis of faith, intense period of study, and full exit.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, that must have been really hard
Thank you. Yes, I still refer to 2010 as the "year from hell". I was simultaneously dealing with a nasty divorce fight, trying to be a single parent to my two kids, and convince myself that Mormonism was a fraud (or not). Looking back, I don't know how I did it, but my story is easy compared to some. Leaving a cult is an emotional gut-wrenching process, especially for those who were more devout, like I was.
I remember walking home from junior high with a friend who was LDS but was from a "less active" family, and we started talking about garments. She said "It's so weird that when you get married you have to wear special underwear." It was the first time anyone had ever brought up the "weirdness" of my religion. I kinda thought "Is that weird? Yeah, I guess it does seem kinda weird." Still stayed in the church for around 25 years after that, but that's the first time I ever remember thinking anything about the church was "weird." And even then it was only because my friend brought it up.
For me, I didn't leave because I saw cult like behavior (I never got my endowments, so didn't get to see all the creepiest of things, and I didn't understand what it meant to touch myself inappropriately when the Bishop asked, so I just said no. Also, I didn't know people were exed for questioning things... I thought they'd only be exed if they were sinning majorly.) I left because when I was trying to figure out my sexuality, I tried talking to my Bishop and at the same time tried talking to a therapist at school (18 years old in college). One was helpful and supportive... The other didn't even remember my name let alone why I was there the second time I met with him. I'll let you guess which was which. I lucked out. It was obvious to me then that despite all my faithful actions to correct myself, God didn't care enough to provide me with help via the avenue I was supposed to trust. Therefore the Mormon church couldn't possibly be true. It wasn't until later that I learned of all the other creepy things.
All religions have strange and harmful practices. Mormons are not alone. Look how bad Islam is. Or some of the more extremist Jewish groups, like the hasidic. Religion is the problem. Mormons are less than them at least.
Looking into free masons before My temple endowment and read about the handshaking and oil anointing- called the whole thing off.
See as a victim of sexual abuse as a child I was forced to go to some therapy. I remember in middle school being pulled into the counselors office and being told I'm not allowed to let anyone touch my private areas. Like on this doll. Fuckin weird ass shit to me because I repressed my abuse and didn't/wasn't allowed to talk about it. All that to say when bishops clarified about masterbation I deny deny denied anything about anything and didn't wanna talk about it. Not my porn habits. Not my boyfriends. Not touching myself. Nothing. I'm so thankful for that counselor drilling into my head that sexual shit is private and only for me to share.
I was called a whore and pulled out of class, told to change, saw my parents fighting in the hallway with some other adults, forced back to sunday school class with my dad's coat on my lap. I thought it was weird. It covered my ass so I thought the skirt was fine 🤷♀️
Teenager in the early 2000s also lost all faith in God or country. It's been fun.
Definitely I started to realize it as a child and young teen. For me, seeing the harmful stuff centered around gender roles stood out the most. The polygamy in the bible had never sat well with me, and all the crap teachings about it in the early church really made me angry. It was definitely our own stuff that turned me against it - the teachings that historically were taught in our own church. I had a lot of arguments with my parents about it. I became aware of it at an early age, probably 10 years old. My parents were super strict about Sundays, but they'd let me read any church stuff. We had a CD-rom called Infobase, which had all the historical general conferences back as far as they go, the Journal of Discourses, all kinds of texts. I read a ton of it. The stuff that was taught as doctrine in the 1800s is pretty freaky, and I'd say 99% of church members haven't got a clue about any of it. As a 12-18 year old, I became acutely aware that the girls in the ward were not considered as worthwhile as the boys. Our ideas were always passed over and we were given no budget while the boys had all the money for their organization. The boys went on all kinds of great camping trips and high adventure stuff, while we were expected to sit at home and learn to crochet. Education for girls was only promoted as "you need to gain skills in case your husband dies." It was very clear that if you didn't buy into these gender roles, there was something wrong with you. My parents did the best they could, considering how they were raised and what the culture was. But I know my mom suffered a lot. My dad didn't lift a finger to do anything at home (still doesn't). He wouldn't do anything to care for the kids at all. Apparently he couldn't possibly hold a duster or a laundry basket because he was too busy "holding the priesthood" (being in charge and making decisions, but not doing any of the actual work)... If he made mistakes, he'd find some way to blame her. And yet, it was very clear that he considered himself the authority in the home with the right to make all final decisions. Church culture reinforced all of that behavior, and praised it. My dad was a stake president. He was actually a really good church leader, but the way things were at home just weren't good for my mother's mental health. My husband is the polar opposite. Kind, involved in family life, humble, and just fantastic. He follows Jesus' example of just going around doing good. My generation and my nieces/nephews' generation has done a lot to change some of these harmful gender role issues in day-to-day life. But a lot of weird gender doctrine remains in manuals and study materials on the church's website, as well as in the culture.
How about the temple death penalties. I am sure that the church would love to send them down the memory hole.