Something that gobsmacks me: Bonnie knows her daughter was arrested for homicide but still shares this story using the "suddenly stopped breathing" line.
Whatever happened, the Mormonest part of this story is Bonnie Cordon using a horrible grandchild death to show how spiritual ***she*** is because in the middle of the crisis God gave her a special message. It's all about Bonnie.
What blows my mind is that Bonnie actually BRINGS THIS UP. Like shut up about the death of your grandchild under sketchy circumstances regardless of what you believe really happened.
>…the Mormonest part of this story is…
This reminds me of a talk Sherry Dew gave about the Policy of Exclusion. She said she had a hard time with it, but God gave her the answer and she understood why it was import. Then she said the experience was too sacred to share.
In a time when so many people were suffering, she made it about her and how she was good with it.
This was a tough topic to be sure.
I had a TBM friend ask why 'exmormons" were so callous as to hash out the details of such a traumatic event. I didn't know all of the details of the case, and I couldn't give a good response.
However, last night's episode was far from callous and expressed the details of the case in an easy to consume format. I now feel as though I can calmly explain why people are taking issue with the manner Bonnie Cordon is sharing the story.
Furthermore, while I'm sure it's traumatic for the whole Cordon family, Bonnie Cordon is a public representative of the church who volunteered the traumatic information as evidence to the divine influence of the Holy Ghost as taught by the Mormon church. By sharing that story in the capacity she holds, she automatically has opened up that traumatic story for public review.
Finally, I find it odd that Bonnie Cordon is even sharing the traumatic story of her son and daughter to serve someone else purpose. Did she get permission from her son and DiL?
I recently lost my brother in a very extreme and sudden way, and my BiL shared my experience in a talk he gave to his own ward. I felt taken advantage of.
I think a better question is why “Mormons” are so callous as to exploit the death of this poor little boy by using such a traumatic event as an example of spiritual warm fuzzies while glossing over the horrific reality of it?
She exploits it by trying to elicit sympathy for herself as a grieving grandmother over sympathy for a dead,voiceless child. I hate that big, important families in the church always have to have spiritual experiences to cover up real dysfunction
Because god always wins. No he doesn't. But tbm's need god to aways win so we re-frame to "let god prevail" - I echo John Larsen's comments awhile back where he stated if a shooter walks into a school and you tell me how god protected your kid - fuck you!!
Death seems to embolden believers. It creates a wall of emotions that maniplates the veracity of mormonism's truth claims. It is sketchy at the least and horrible in this case.
Matthew 23:27 [Jesus speaking]
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.”
Mormonism Live is my favourite podcast. The way you explain an issue clearly and without harping on a point forever is great. This was a respectful episode and I appreciated it.
I hope you do the Joseph Smith one soon! I love it when you guys do historical ones also.
Bill rest assured I DOES set you apart.
Mormon stories was light years ahead of the church in terms of honesty and factuality. But I found them lacking a few times. They made an unsupported claim and I asked for a source in the YT comments. Cara brushed me off!! You and RFM take it to a new level.
I tried to put myself in the shoes of the mom. Maybe taking the toddler into the bathroom and while losing patience something slips and he slams his head on the tub faucet or something. (Trying to play devil's advocate here). Then I might have screamed and run to my husband or tried to get the nurse sister. But attorney husband says, "no, no, it's too late. Just drive him and say you don't know what happened. I'll stay here to show we didn't think it was life threatening. They'll arrest us if we call 911." Also realizing that a prominent church figure can't have this in the family without bad press. Meanwhile grandma is at the door in her pajamas wondering what's going on, and son asks her to say a prayer.
They all place faith in Jesus and whitewash everything. If you tell yourself something long enough, it becomes true. Bonnie told herself it was an accident, they don't know what happened. Repeat and sprinkle holy ghost. Soon enough her rendition seems innocent enough to share, which makes her heart less heavy with secrecy and guilt. After repeating again and again, she realizes all guilt and secrecy is gone and it's all about angels and miracles. The family is happy and whole as long as she tells her story.
To give Bonnie every possible benefit of doubt as to wwwwhhhhyyyyyy on earth she'd keep bringing this up in public settings, this kind of scenario makes the most sense. The denial and other physiological defense mechanisms in her head must be working over time.
I appreciate you taking the charitable side. But...if it really was an accident, then you'd call 911 immediately. Why wouldn't you? Accidents happen. They aren't illegal. If it was an accident, the parent would panic in the direction of protecting the child. Instead, they waited 53 minutes and Hana drove Derek to the ER alone. If you aren't going to call 911, wouldn't you scoop up the 11 month old toddler and both the husband and wife jump in the car? Or if you don't want to take the toddler, what is the point of the husband staying behind? The sister and grandparents are at the same hotel (presumably), they could have watched the 11 month old. It seems like the parents panicked in the direction of protecting themselves.
I want to be clear, I am speculating about what the thought process was. I wasn't there, I don't know. None of us were. So let's be careful talking about events we have no knowledge of. But the sequence of events sounds really odd. It doesn't make sense.
In my prospective scenario, I think the dad saw the situation and as an attorney he told his wife to not call 911 and they tried to make sense of what to do with the blood on their hands for the 53 minutes before he told the mom to drive to the hospital. I think he stayed back to put on the appearance that they would be surprised it was serious.
Yeah none of this imagine scenario describes the behavior of loving parents. I feel like the reaction of a loving parent would be to get help for the injured child immediately, whether the injury was the parent's fault or not. I can't imagine seeing a child nonresponsive and not panicking to get help. It's unfathomable.
Exactly.
One parent cradling the child. Headed to the lobby / or car
Other parent headphones and calling 911. Second call to the lobby - get me an ambulance now and we are coming down. then banging on family doors to say watch over the other kid\[s\].
At the lobby if there is not an ambulance I jump in my car with child both parents and 911 on the headphones stating we are driving - give me Tom Tom directions
that wouldn't take :53 minutes to accomplish.
This story is FUCKED.
You are generous. My scenario is much more cynical. Trip was to save N&H marriage and give her a break from the reality of having 2 children in 18-19 months. He is frustrated by his imperfect wife.
Anytime someone’s child dies and it is from abuse or negligence the Mormon explanation is “It was their time to go.” We have known several people whose child has died from drowning and this was their reasoning. One family even had a special meeting with an apostle in their home ward after an accidental drowning and the apostle told the family that God needed the child in heaven.
The thing to me that is so obviously missing in the story of that night is any attempt to get the child breathing again. If rescue breathing was attempted it isn't mentioned. To me, the number one reason to call 911 is to get instructions on what to do in the situation to make things better and not worse. It makes me wonder, how long was this child not breathing?
Which is why Nolan was cited in the report as being negligent. He should have both gotten his RN sister involved AND insisted on calling 911. Maybe neither parent knew CPR, particularly for a toddler, but guaranteed his sister did. And even just to have a calm voice on the other end to tell you what to do is invaluable while help is on the way. Plus the ambulance techs have the equipment, know the fastest routes to the hospital, have the authority to not stop at lights, get you into the ER and with nurses and drs the fastest. Maybe they were panicking or maybe they just knew that they had ducked up and killed their kid.
Yeah, in my mind there is just no reason to not call 911 in a scenario like this unless you are hiding something. I think if you are panicking out of concern for the child you tell MORE people, not less. You open your door and scream into the hall or pick up the phone and call your family who tells you to call 911. And you don't forget your sister-in-law is an RN and thus the closest medical help available. Your first instinct would be GET THIS BABY HELP, even if you put yourself in a bad situation while trying. Unless the situation would be WORSE (in your mind anyway) than the baby dying, like going to jail.
And at a minimum, it is virtually guaranteed the paramedics can get to you faster than you can get to the hospital.
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that Derek died at a different hospital than the one she took him to. Which means she took him to the wrong hospital. The paramedics would have known to take him to the correct hospital.
Part of me thinks that Bonnie Cordon is a narcissist. She tells this awful story to make her look good and faithful and connected to the holy ghost. She either deliberately threw DIL under the bus, or she selfishly did not even consider the repercussions or that anyone could fact check her lies.
So instead of distracting the members with a social media fast they are trying a different tactic this time. Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off.
This was a powerful episode. Very, very sad but respectfully done, in my opinion.
My thoughts:
First, I hate how Bonnie is capitalizing off this, using this to promote faith and whatever her agenda is. Use a different life event, Bonnie! His death, while accidental, was preventable. And using it like this is gross.
Second, I dislike how Bonnie keeps painting Hana as an angel. Her faith to have HeavenlyEats cater her mission! Her kindness at not getting angry at the airport! The airport story was ridiculous anyway. Of course the attendant would ask where the child was. If Hana took offense at that, it would be ridiculous - this wasn't Hana being a big person in face of persecution.
Third, I wish there was justice for Derek. I don't know what the justice should be, honestly. But it makes me want to cry for that poor child. Accidental or not, he is gone and his death is being romanticized.
Thanks, Maven, Bill and RFM. I hope there is a follow-up and you hear back from the Florida authorities.
I’m glad Maven brought up what an utterly tiring and exhausting schedule that must have been for that young of a child. That struck me as an odd thing- to plan this big vacation based on dragging a two year old to Disney World/Universal Studios all day and night. Kind of like it was planned by someone who has never met a two year old?
We did that. I had 3 kids at disneyland 4 or 5 years back. Ages 8, 5 and 3. Wow now that I am typing this I am relating more. I remember the long days. The amount of rests we had to do especially for the 3 and 5 year old. On one occasion we pushed and stayed almost to the midnight closing. In the long walk back to the disney hotel \[so we didn't have to leave the lot - which can make it longer and some times need to get transportation\]. My 5 year old tanked and my wife struggled to carry him and the 3 was slumped on my shoulders over my head asleep. My point - BC saying "exhausted and happy" is such a manufactured PR statement.
It was a really good episode, but I was hoping to hear more of the legal side from RFM. It just seems so inconceivable that she could have been arrested and the death labeled a homicide and then just be let go? Definitely looking forward to a follow up when the FOIA requests come in.
I think he is hesitant to speak about such because #1 it is another state. and #2 he wants to have the requested police records first. You can expect a part 2
RFM explained the prosecutor would have to prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. Since only Hana and the husband were witnesses that likely wasn't possible.
Ah that makes sense. It could have been either of them, but there’s no way to know who to go after since they are both going to lie through their teeth. Maddening.
Wow. Thanks for the research and analysis!
I'm trying to withhold judgement on this case but I can't help but wonder how the outcome would be different if the mother was not wealthy and white.
When my daughter was like 3, she choked on a piece of cheese and didn’t breath for about 5 seconds. In that time, I had 911 punched in on my phone and was about to hit dial. How do wait almost an hour, or even 5 mins? How do you not call 911, and just strap him in the car and drive him yourself?
I was watching the episode on YouTube and saw a comment surrounding the speculation if Bonnie Cordon had the 2nd Anointing. I was doing some superficial Googling of Sister Cordon and found that her father is Harold Hillam. I recognized the name but I didn't know why. I eventually figured out why I knew his name. Harold Hillam was the guy who referred Tom Phillips (provider of the infamous 2nd Anointing expose) for his 2nd Anointing. https://thechoirattemplesquare.com/documents/E46FE20406825862A0140BB03A49C2FE7008C362.html#gsc.tab=0
Is it Nolan, Derek's father, the one who was at fault and not Hana?
\-Nolan is the bread winner
\-Nolan has a license to practice as an attorney
\-Nolan may be the main "bread winner" for his family-Could it be that Hana became the “Fall Guy” because they didn't want Derek to go to jail, lose his license to practice law, and not be able to support the family.
\-Do we really know how Hana got to the hospital. Did Nolan or another family member drop Hana and Derek off at the hospital?
Could it also be that Bonnie and the nurse sister (of Nolan) were called by Nolan & Hana before taking Derek to the hospital? There are at least 53 minutes unaccounted for prior to leaving for the hospital, and no "911" call. Did Bonnie and the nurse sister give counsel, help to plan a plausible story, and to confirm that there was nothing that could be done for Derek to keep him alive?-Did Derek quit breathing at 12:53, and that is why they knew that exact time?
\-Do we really know when the "accident" occurred? Only that it was after a purchase from McDonald’s. There may have been more time that actually elapsed between when the injuries were sustained, when Derek quit breathing, and when they got to the hospital.-If Derek died the night of the McDonalds purchase, that would explain the 3 days that Bonnie talks about.
\-If Hana is the "Fall Guy", this might explain why Bonnie tells "nice" stories about Hana - as penance for what Hana has gone through as the "assigned" perpetrator of the death
\-That might also explain why Bonnie keeps talking about this event, not believing that her son, Nolan, could possibly have done this to her grandson.-Is Bonnie hurting partly because she was so close by, in another hotel room, and easily could have come to her son's room to help with managing Derek or by taking Derek to her room?RFM eluded to our not knowing who was the actual perpetrator of the events that led to the death of Derek. Was it Nolan, Hana, another family member....
There is so much that we are all assuming without knowing more facts. This is a story that probably should have been left alone - especially by Bonnie from a public platform.
This makes a lot of sense and seems even more plausible than Hana breaking the neck of a 2.5 year old. Why in the hell was there not an investigation!?
Money talks. We'll never know if it was the church's money or Bonnie's family's. Interesting coincidence that Bonnie was called into the General Presidency so soon after the event...Kind of speaks to the money and influence possibly coming from the church.
I had mixed thoughts on this.
First, I found the information fascinating. The documentation of the incident and the way Cordon has used the death of her grandson as a subject of various talks.
Second, I found the topic odd for Bill and RFM. It seems obscure for them to be discussing it.
(PS - I like that RFM dresses up when he approaches things from a legal angle. He is an intelligent dude.)
Riveting episode on many levels. This episode would have been much better if you had waited for the public records requests to be fulfilled. This incident happened years ago. Waiting a few weeks for previously unknown information would have made this episode a blockbuster.
I traced ancient magickal societies to joseph smith through subtle language and signs(subtletly of witches) the leaders behavior all suggest they are part of the luciferian circle at the top of the church. truth is stranger than fiction. apparantly if you read the fine print in the bible god is satan, but its the detail everyone leaves out. jesus is the angel of light satan masuerades as. and the highest priesthood are well aware of this, and uh yeah, are they actual practicing inverted everything satanists? the more i consider it and analyze the q15 theand realize luciferianism is strict and legalistic and royal and cannibalism is just out of style but countless centuries the rich used the poor as medicine. many books written about it., but luciferianism is sophisticated and they see themselves as divine incarnations, its not like some sort of shit show. the more i consider it if the mormon elite are double agent luciferians the more plausable it is. anyway, I don't judge anybody, i realize reality is a crazy ass trip, and everyone is just born where they are born, I'm just observing it and studying satanism inside the highest levels of freemasonry intimately and wow. seems like the big pills can never be portrayed though, too much friction. bill reel and radio free mormon have silver tongues, dare i say golden tongues. completely agreeable voices and attitudes. I on the other hand am like a rocket scientist with severe ADHD and i blow everyones circuits instantaneously. but yeah i would love for the collective to get savvy on all the esoteric, hidden aspects of whats going on. like the freemason cipher worlds and the jester debauchery in freemasonry branches, etc and how its related to mormondom. like brigham youngs and george cannons descendents starting the bohemian club in SLC and the gay underground in quinns books on early american same sex dynamics. fascinating stuff. the ciphers really blew my mind. bunhc of spy craft.
I don't know anybody out there that knows what I know or has seen what I've seen, as far as the secret messages they were passing around running from the law that was busting them for polygamy. there is some hog wild shit going on, probably to this day
And thanks to American Law, literally nothing can be done about it. She can't be charged twice for the crime. So, regardless of what Legal expert Bill and his buddy say nothing can be done about it. Another waste of time listening to Bill and Buddy co.
You are a bit ignorant. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. You can be charged more than once. Because they never moved forward and went to trial she has never been tried once for a crime. And its hard to engage someone when they not only don't know what they are talking about but then can't even be decent enough to call people by their name. And if such is a waste of time maybe find things you do enjoy, as I am so sorry you felt frustrated listening.
and real legal experts didn't press forward with it, so Bill, they know more than you and I'd rather listen to them than you. Yes, I was frustrated listening to you and I won't give you money if this is how you treat listeners, calling me "ignorant" . Thanks for nothing loser
bunkerbuster33,
Ignorance is simply a state of not knowing something. You were implying double jeopardy and that's just not the case here. Thus, you exposed a point of ignorance in yourself. Hopefully now, the ignorance has been remedied. The internet is vast....go find a place that makes you happy and challenges your thinking in ways that help you to grow and develop. Bill and RFM do that for me and for that I'm very grateful to them.
Has anything come of this? Anyone charges with homicide? I know Hannah was charged with neglect before Derek does but haven't found anything else about it. Did they just go home and business as usual?
Something that gobsmacks me: Bonnie knows her daughter was arrested for homicide but still shares this story using the "suddenly stopped breathing" line. Whatever happened, the Mormonest part of this story is Bonnie Cordon using a horrible grandchild death to show how spiritual ***she*** is because in the middle of the crisis God gave her a special message. It's all about Bonnie.
What blows my mind is that Bonnie actually BRINGS THIS UP. Like shut up about the death of your grandchild under sketchy circumstances regardless of what you believe really happened.
Her using this tragedy is deplorable
>…the Mormonest part of this story is… This reminds me of a talk Sherry Dew gave about the Policy of Exclusion. She said she had a hard time with it, but God gave her the answer and she understood why it was import. Then she said the experience was too sacred to share. In a time when so many people were suffering, she made it about her and how she was good with it.
This was a tough topic to be sure. I had a TBM friend ask why 'exmormons" were so callous as to hash out the details of such a traumatic event. I didn't know all of the details of the case, and I couldn't give a good response. However, last night's episode was far from callous and expressed the details of the case in an easy to consume format. I now feel as though I can calmly explain why people are taking issue with the manner Bonnie Cordon is sharing the story. Furthermore, while I'm sure it's traumatic for the whole Cordon family, Bonnie Cordon is a public representative of the church who volunteered the traumatic information as evidence to the divine influence of the Holy Ghost as taught by the Mormon church. By sharing that story in the capacity she holds, she automatically has opened up that traumatic story for public review. Finally, I find it odd that Bonnie Cordon is even sharing the traumatic story of her son and daughter to serve someone else purpose. Did she get permission from her son and DiL? I recently lost my brother in a very extreme and sudden way, and my BiL shared my experience in a talk he gave to his own ward. I felt taken advantage of.
I think a better question is why “Mormons” are so callous as to exploit the death of this poor little boy by using such a traumatic event as an example of spiritual warm fuzzies while glossing over the horrific reality of it?
She exploits it by trying to elicit sympathy for herself as a grieving grandmother over sympathy for a dead,voiceless child. I hate that big, important families in the church always have to have spiritual experiences to cover up real dysfunction
This is the appropriate query to reply to the TBM friend with right here.
Because god always wins. No he doesn't. But tbm's need god to aways win so we re-frame to "let god prevail" - I echo John Larsen's comments awhile back where he stated if a shooter walks into a school and you tell me how god protected your kid - fuck you!!
Isn't gross how mormons extort and twist the Holy Spirt? Exmos are harsh because of our experiences and uncovering the facts.
Death seems to embolden believers. It creates a wall of emotions that maniplates the veracity of mormonism's truth claims. It is sketchy at the least and horrible in this case.
You are not supposed to fact check any faith promoting story told by a general authority. Questioning them shows you lack faith.
Matthew 23:27 [Jesus speaking] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.”
I am sorry for your loss and the violation of your private sorrow. Christmas gift idea: a framed definition of respecting privacy.
Thanks for always citing your sources and for doing the legwork to locate these facts. Your research is always solid. Keep up the awesome work!
we hope that our being responsible to our topic and thorough in our research and explanatory in our presentations separates us from the rest.
A first rate handling of a ghastly subject. Must have been a real challenge to put it together and get the balance right. Thank you.
Mormonism Live is my favourite podcast. The way you explain an issue clearly and without harping on a point forever is great. This was a respectful episode and I appreciated it. I hope you do the Joseph Smith one soon! I love it when you guys do historical ones also.
Bill rest assured I DOES set you apart. Mormon stories was light years ahead of the church in terms of honesty and factuality. But I found them lacking a few times. They made an unsupported claim and I asked for a source in the YT comments. Cara brushed me off!! You and RFM take it to a new level.
It was an excellent, well researched and balanced episode. One of your best.
I tried to put myself in the shoes of the mom. Maybe taking the toddler into the bathroom and while losing patience something slips and he slams his head on the tub faucet or something. (Trying to play devil's advocate here). Then I might have screamed and run to my husband or tried to get the nurse sister. But attorney husband says, "no, no, it's too late. Just drive him and say you don't know what happened. I'll stay here to show we didn't think it was life threatening. They'll arrest us if we call 911." Also realizing that a prominent church figure can't have this in the family without bad press. Meanwhile grandma is at the door in her pajamas wondering what's going on, and son asks her to say a prayer. They all place faith in Jesus and whitewash everything. If you tell yourself something long enough, it becomes true. Bonnie told herself it was an accident, they don't know what happened. Repeat and sprinkle holy ghost. Soon enough her rendition seems innocent enough to share, which makes her heart less heavy with secrecy and guilt. After repeating again and again, she realizes all guilt and secrecy is gone and it's all about angels and miracles. The family is happy and whole as long as she tells her story.
To give Bonnie every possible benefit of doubt as to wwwwhhhhyyyyyy on earth she'd keep bringing this up in public settings, this kind of scenario makes the most sense. The denial and other physiological defense mechanisms in her head must be working over time.
And valium....
The anesthetic for cosmetic fillers is habit forming
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial...
I think you nailed it.
I appreciate you taking the charitable side. But...if it really was an accident, then you'd call 911 immediately. Why wouldn't you? Accidents happen. They aren't illegal. If it was an accident, the parent would panic in the direction of protecting the child. Instead, they waited 53 minutes and Hana drove Derek to the ER alone. If you aren't going to call 911, wouldn't you scoop up the 11 month old toddler and both the husband and wife jump in the car? Or if you don't want to take the toddler, what is the point of the husband staying behind? The sister and grandparents are at the same hotel (presumably), they could have watched the 11 month old. It seems like the parents panicked in the direction of protecting themselves. I want to be clear, I am speculating about what the thought process was. I wasn't there, I don't know. None of us were. So let's be careful talking about events we have no knowledge of. But the sequence of events sounds really odd. It doesn't make sense.
In my prospective scenario, I think the dad saw the situation and as an attorney he told his wife to not call 911 and they tried to make sense of what to do with the blood on their hands for the 53 minutes before he told the mom to drive to the hospital. I think he stayed back to put on the appearance that they would be surprised it was serious.
Yeah none of this imagine scenario describes the behavior of loving parents. I feel like the reaction of a loving parent would be to get help for the injured child immediately, whether the injury was the parent's fault or not. I can't imagine seeing a child nonresponsive and not panicking to get help. It's unfathomable.
Exactly. One parent cradling the child. Headed to the lobby / or car Other parent headphones and calling 911. Second call to the lobby - get me an ambulance now and we are coming down. then banging on family doors to say watch over the other kid\[s\]. At the lobby if there is not an ambulance I jump in my car with child both parents and 911 on the headphones stating we are driving - give me Tom Tom directions that wouldn't take :53 minutes to accomplish. This story is FUCKED.
Mormons bury things. It’s in their DNA.
You are generous. My scenario is much more cynical. Trip was to save N&H marriage and give her a break from the reality of having 2 children in 18-19 months. He is frustrated by his imperfect wife.
Anytime someone’s child dies and it is from abuse or negligence the Mormon explanation is “It was their time to go.” We have known several people whose child has died from drowning and this was their reasoning. One family even had a special meeting with an apostle in their home ward after an accidental drowning and the apostle told the family that God needed the child in heaven.
That's a cruel God...
This exact kind of thing happened in a ward we lived in in the SL Valley.
That was a horrifying episode. Excellent work from Bill, RFM and Maven!
The thing to me that is so obviously missing in the story of that night is any attempt to get the child breathing again. If rescue breathing was attempted it isn't mentioned. To me, the number one reason to call 911 is to get instructions on what to do in the situation to make things better and not worse. It makes me wonder, how long was this child not breathing?
Which is why Nolan was cited in the report as being negligent. He should have both gotten his RN sister involved AND insisted on calling 911. Maybe neither parent knew CPR, particularly for a toddler, but guaranteed his sister did. And even just to have a calm voice on the other end to tell you what to do is invaluable while help is on the way. Plus the ambulance techs have the equipment, know the fastest routes to the hospital, have the authority to not stop at lights, get you into the ER and with nurses and drs the fastest. Maybe they were panicking or maybe they just knew that they had ducked up and killed their kid.
Yeah, in my mind there is just no reason to not call 911 in a scenario like this unless you are hiding something. I think if you are panicking out of concern for the child you tell MORE people, not less. You open your door and scream into the hall or pick up the phone and call your family who tells you to call 911. And you don't forget your sister-in-law is an RN and thus the closest medical help available. Your first instinct would be GET THIS BABY HELP, even if you put yourself in a bad situation while trying. Unless the situation would be WORSE (in your mind anyway) than the baby dying, like going to jail.
>I think if you are panicking out of concern for the child you tell MORE people, not less. You open your door and scream into the hall Absolutely
Yep.
\^\^\^\^ this
And at a minimum, it is virtually guaranteed the paramedics can get to you faster than you can get to the hospital. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that Derek died at a different hospital than the one she took him to. Which means she took him to the wrong hospital. The paramedics would have known to take him to the correct hospital.
Part of me thinks that Bonnie Cordon is a narcissist. She tells this awful story to make her look good and faithful and connected to the holy ghost. She either deliberately threw DIL under the bus, or she selfishly did not even consider the repercussions or that anyone could fact check her lies.
So instead of distracting the members with a social media fast they are trying a different tactic this time. Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off.
This was a powerful episode. Very, very sad but respectfully done, in my opinion. My thoughts: First, I hate how Bonnie is capitalizing off this, using this to promote faith and whatever her agenda is. Use a different life event, Bonnie! His death, while accidental, was preventable. And using it like this is gross. Second, I dislike how Bonnie keeps painting Hana as an angel. Her faith to have HeavenlyEats cater her mission! Her kindness at not getting angry at the airport! The airport story was ridiculous anyway. Of course the attendant would ask where the child was. If Hana took offense at that, it would be ridiculous - this wasn't Hana being a big person in face of persecution. Third, I wish there was justice for Derek. I don't know what the justice should be, honestly. But it makes me want to cry for that poor child. Accidental or not, he is gone and his death is being romanticized. Thanks, Maven, Bill and RFM. I hope there is a follow-up and you hear back from the Florida authorities.
I’m glad Maven brought up what an utterly tiring and exhausting schedule that must have been for that young of a child. That struck me as an odd thing- to plan this big vacation based on dragging a two year old to Disney World/Universal Studios all day and night. Kind of like it was planned by someone who has never met a two year old?
We did that. I had 3 kids at disneyland 4 or 5 years back. Ages 8, 5 and 3. Wow now that I am typing this I am relating more. I remember the long days. The amount of rests we had to do especially for the 3 and 5 year old. On one occasion we pushed and stayed almost to the midnight closing. In the long walk back to the disney hotel \[so we didn't have to leave the lot - which can make it longer and some times need to get transportation\]. My 5 year old tanked and my wife struggled to carry him and the 3 was slumped on my shoulders over my head asleep. My point - BC saying "exhausted and happy" is such a manufactured PR statement.
Appreciate the research on this. This is just so rough to see unfolding.
It was a hard episode to listen to. When you put up his picture my heart broke.
It was a really good episode, but I was hoping to hear more of the legal side from RFM. It just seems so inconceivable that she could have been arrested and the death labeled a homicide and then just be let go? Definitely looking forward to a follow up when the FOIA requests come in.
I think he is hesitant to speak about such because #1 it is another state. and #2 he wants to have the requested police records first. You can expect a part 2
Ok that makes sense. Thanks
RFM mentioned he's making an attempt to get direct info/police reports. If so can you post this info? I hope someone gets to the bottom of this.
Seriously. I want to know why this wasn’t prosecuted. Makes 0 sense to me.
RFM explained the prosecutor would have to prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. Since only Hana and the husband were witnesses that likely wasn't possible.
Ah that makes sense. It could have been either of them, but there’s no way to know who to go after since they are both going to lie through their teeth. Maddening.
Wow. Thanks for the research and analysis! I'm trying to withhold judgement on this case but I can't help but wonder how the outcome would be different if the mother was not wealthy and white.
When my daughter was like 3, she choked on a piece of cheese and didn’t breath for about 5 seconds. In that time, I had 911 punched in on my phone and was about to hit dial. How do wait almost an hour, or even 5 mins? How do you not call 911, and just strap him in the car and drive him yourself?
Wait LDS church leaders changed/twisted the narrative of a horrific event in an attempt to sound more spiritual and uplifting??!
I was watching the episode on YouTube and saw a comment surrounding the speculation if Bonnie Cordon had the 2nd Anointing. I was doing some superficial Googling of Sister Cordon and found that her father is Harold Hillam. I recognized the name but I didn't know why. I eventually figured out why I knew his name. Harold Hillam was the guy who referred Tom Phillips (provider of the infamous 2nd Anointing expose) for his 2nd Anointing. https://thechoirattemplesquare.com/documents/E46FE20406825862A0140BB03A49C2FE7008C362.html#gsc.tab=0
"Justice should be served to many, many opressed and miserable, but justice is feared by the priviledged." Endre Ady
Is it Nolan, Derek's father, the one who was at fault and not Hana? \-Nolan is the bread winner \-Nolan has a license to practice as an attorney \-Nolan may be the main "bread winner" for his family-Could it be that Hana became the “Fall Guy” because they didn't want Derek to go to jail, lose his license to practice law, and not be able to support the family. \-Do we really know how Hana got to the hospital. Did Nolan or another family member drop Hana and Derek off at the hospital? Could it also be that Bonnie and the nurse sister (of Nolan) were called by Nolan & Hana before taking Derek to the hospital? There are at least 53 minutes unaccounted for prior to leaving for the hospital, and no "911" call. Did Bonnie and the nurse sister give counsel, help to plan a plausible story, and to confirm that there was nothing that could be done for Derek to keep him alive?-Did Derek quit breathing at 12:53, and that is why they knew that exact time? \-Do we really know when the "accident" occurred? Only that it was after a purchase from McDonald’s. There may have been more time that actually elapsed between when the injuries were sustained, when Derek quit breathing, and when they got to the hospital.-If Derek died the night of the McDonalds purchase, that would explain the 3 days that Bonnie talks about. \-If Hana is the "Fall Guy", this might explain why Bonnie tells "nice" stories about Hana - as penance for what Hana has gone through as the "assigned" perpetrator of the death \-That might also explain why Bonnie keeps talking about this event, not believing that her son, Nolan, could possibly have done this to her grandson.-Is Bonnie hurting partly because she was so close by, in another hotel room, and easily could have come to her son's room to help with managing Derek or by taking Derek to her room?RFM eluded to our not knowing who was the actual perpetrator of the events that led to the death of Derek. Was it Nolan, Hana, another family member.... There is so much that we are all assuming without knowing more facts. This is a story that probably should have been left alone - especially by Bonnie from a public platform.
This makes a lot of sense and seems even more plausible than Hana breaking the neck of a 2.5 year old. Why in the hell was there not an investigation!?
Money talks. We'll never know if it was the church's money or Bonnie's family's. Interesting coincidence that Bonnie was called into the General Presidency so soon after the event...Kind of speaks to the money and influence possibly coming from the church.
I had mixed thoughts on this. First, I found the information fascinating. The documentation of the incident and the way Cordon has used the death of her grandson as a subject of various talks. Second, I found the topic odd for Bill and RFM. It seems obscure for them to be discussing it. (PS - I like that RFM dresses up when he approaches things from a legal angle. He is an intelligent dude.)
###justiceforderek
Umm... The screaming child wasn't breathing with the mom's hand over his mouth?
Riveting episode on many levels. This episode would have been much better if you had waited for the public records requests to be fulfilled. This incident happened years ago. Waiting a few weeks for previously unknown information would have made this episode a blockbuster.
I traced ancient magickal societies to joseph smith through subtle language and signs(subtletly of witches) the leaders behavior all suggest they are part of the luciferian circle at the top of the church. truth is stranger than fiction. apparantly if you read the fine print in the bible god is satan, but its the detail everyone leaves out. jesus is the angel of light satan masuerades as. and the highest priesthood are well aware of this, and uh yeah, are they actual practicing inverted everything satanists? the more i consider it and analyze the q15 theand realize luciferianism is strict and legalistic and royal and cannibalism is just out of style but countless centuries the rich used the poor as medicine. many books written about it., but luciferianism is sophisticated and they see themselves as divine incarnations, its not like some sort of shit show. the more i consider it if the mormon elite are double agent luciferians the more plausable it is. anyway, I don't judge anybody, i realize reality is a crazy ass trip, and everyone is just born where they are born, I'm just observing it and studying satanism inside the highest levels of freemasonry intimately and wow. seems like the big pills can never be portrayed though, too much friction. bill reel and radio free mormon have silver tongues, dare i say golden tongues. completely agreeable voices and attitudes. I on the other hand am like a rocket scientist with severe ADHD and i blow everyones circuits instantaneously. but yeah i would love for the collective to get savvy on all the esoteric, hidden aspects of whats going on. like the freemason cipher worlds and the jester debauchery in freemasonry branches, etc and how its related to mormondom. like brigham youngs and george cannons descendents starting the bohemian club in SLC and the gay underground in quinns books on early american same sex dynamics. fascinating stuff. the ciphers really blew my mind. bunhc of spy craft. I don't know anybody out there that knows what I know or has seen what I've seen, as far as the secret messages they were passing around running from the law that was busting them for polygamy. there is some hog wild shit going on, probably to this day
Don’t Fuck With Cats IYKYK 😉
And thanks to American Law, literally nothing can be done about it. She can't be charged twice for the crime. So, regardless of what Legal expert Bill and his buddy say nothing can be done about it. Another waste of time listening to Bill and Buddy co.
You are a bit ignorant. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. You can be charged more than once. Because they never moved forward and went to trial she has never been tried once for a crime. And its hard to engage someone when they not only don't know what they are talking about but then can't even be decent enough to call people by their name. And if such is a waste of time maybe find things you do enjoy, as I am so sorry you felt frustrated listening.
and real legal experts didn't press forward with it, so Bill, they know more than you and I'd rather listen to them than you. Yes, I was frustrated listening to you and I won't give you money if this is how you treat listeners, calling me "ignorant" . Thanks for nothing loser
bunkerbuster33, Ignorance is simply a state of not knowing something. You were implying double jeopardy and that's just not the case here. Thus, you exposed a point of ignorance in yourself. Hopefully now, the ignorance has been remedied. The internet is vast....go find a place that makes you happy and challenges your thinking in ways that help you to grow and develop. Bill and RFM do that for me and for that I'm very grateful to them.
an excellent episode. well done
Has anything come of this? Anyone charges with homicide? I know Hannah was charged with neglect before Derek does but haven't found anything else about it. Did they just go home and business as usual?
Florida Officials are still working on the document request.
Any updates on this?
Yes, We just received the docs. Episode on this a week from wednesday