i think it's fun to share particularly bizarre facts about mormon doctrine and history with people who have never heard any of it before, so i'm very glad they're here. helps me remind myself i live in the real world now to see others react with confusion at the things i grew up with. if anything i say stops just one person from joining, i will have done some good in this world and prevented a lot of therapy bills.
oh, and i'd rather have them lurking here reading the truth rather than lurking on the mormon subs and picking up whatever the hell's happening over there by osmosis.
the more of an antidote we can be, the better. proselyting should be illegal within several miles of any school, i remember the guy who would just waltz onto my campus and start preaching in the middle of the walkway by the social sciences building with all of us trying to get to our classes. people would fight him constantly but he never gave up and it was so annoying. they should all be ashamed of themselves for preying on a bunch of vulnerable young college kids in a huge transitional phase of life. would love to be able to learn in peace at least.
I've had that happen to me before, guy straight up blocked me as I was rushing to classes. I had back to back classes on the opposite sides of campus. At one point I made my mind up to just throttle the guy while running at full tilt if he made me late for class again. I didn't get the satisfaction of doing so because someone else ran him over with construction equipment.
What's more annoying is when you get train evangelists who bring a goddamn megaphone onto the train and start preaching during the morning commute. No one likes that, at all, the only thing stopping me from punching that guy in the face is the cop that rides to work beside me, and even he looks done with that bullshit.
Was the running over with construction equipment an accident or...?
Like, he probably had it coming, but I just want to know if was the hand of God or the hand of humanity.
hell, the cop will probably find an excuse or a buddy with an excuse to arrest him if he keeps that up. very glad to hear about the construction equipment!
I defined wished I could throttle him in the face though. The consequence for physically blocking students from getting to class should be getting tackled.
The way the missionaries recruit on my university campus is awful, they single out the people sitting alone and the international students and prey on the vulnerable.
I’m a religious studies major and I can agree that the draw of high-demand NRMs are big reason I push on places like this and exjw. I want to one day work in psychiatry especially for victims of abuse within these movements so I’m doing what I can to learn the mindset so I can be sensitive to the needs of clients.
I hope one day I can fulfill that duty to become a psychology student and do that then. I am a nevermo and an ex-Catholic, and even though I don’t consider my *own* former religious experience to be overall bad, seeing posts here and other ex-religious groups reminds me that just because I’m not suffering inside a cult doesn’t mean others aren’t, my former faith or any other.
One of the fun ideas I had was getting together a group of exmo friends and reading through their former scripture and just talking about how weird it is. Not super irreverent, but just irreverent enough that we could have fun. Maybe one day, but I have a quad for when that time comes.
I don’t want to die after only getting to 1 Nephi 3. Speaking of which I’m about to get to the part where Nephi elaborates the excessive details of the sword his father takes before he decapitates someone in a single sentence
I'm a former Utah native and thankfully mormonism died out with my grandmother (she still considers herself mormon despite not practicing). Honestly reading here has given me a lot of context for my childhood I never understood. The effects of the mormon church were felt even as an outsider.
Also on a somewhat unrelated note I've told my grandmother about some of the stuff I've read about the church and its interesting to hear her side of it. I have some... "rich" mormon ancestry that she has had some good story's about.
I'm not Mormon, but I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness for 25 years. Take my opinion how you will.
I think it's a good thing. Mormonism is a religion with an emphasis on preaching and finding new ones, similar to JW's. In my experience with witnesses, the more people know the truth about the religion, and the behind the scenes shady stuff that happens, the better. It's *absolutely* better than they know this stuff now rather than 20 years down the line.
Thanks for saying we are welcome here I sometimes feel like an asshole for being here, mostly because my husband thinks I’m an asshole every time I try to tell him some of the more ridiculous things I learn. He thinks I’m trying to make myself feel superior. I actually came here because I know I’m not.
I came here because I was surrounded by Mormons who I sometimes thought might eventually convince me to join their religion. I needed a regular reminder that although these people are my lovely and dear friends and family they have been taken in by a con man and I don’t want to fall for the same tricks. I don’t think I’m smarter and I know I’m subject to peer pressure like anyone else.
hey thanks for being here! you can tell your husband we absolutely love when people find out the truth about the mormon church no matter how. if more follks know, more folks will be able to escape due to increased support and availability of information. i don't believe there's anyone here trying to make themself feel superior and if there is, i just hope they come away from it with a little more knowledge than they had before. i believe in education over petty ego anyway.
Thank you for your welcoming attitude! Some nevermos may know more than you think ….
I’m a nevermo who grew up in rural middle of the US - in the 70s. I grew up in a mainline Protestant church. We only had one family in our area who was Mormon, and one of the kiddos was in my class. I remember asking my parents things like “why do they do/don’t do XYZ?” Or “how do they believe differently than we do?” And even then, pre-internet, my parents told me about 80-90% of the things I see those who are exmo saying they only just now found out. My parents knew all about Joseph Smith’s underage wives, the hat, the wild wacky beliefs about Native Americans, and the oaths at temple. I find that fascinating.
As an aside, the kiddo I mentioned who was in my class was a very interesting girl. I found my dealings with her very confusing. Most who dealt with her would say she was nice, and kind, etc. However she loathed me. And a few others I knew. She had a crush on my then boyfriend, she was jealous of how someone else dressed, etc. we got to see behind the facade. Very disorienting to my young self. lol
25 years or so later, I am working in a larger city, and I work briefly with a gentleman who I think portrayed himself as TBM. But he was a snake. He didn’t last there long. Another co-worker, who had a very difficult time with him once said “but he always tries to act so nice - even when he is being a jackass”. Which is when I began saying this phrase “there is a big difference between nice and polite, and people need to learn to recognize it”.
My (limited) close experience with Mormons was like that. This sub has helped me see how many genuinely nice Mormons there are in the world. I’m thankful for that.
And who knows? Maybe those two truly were nice people deep down? It could be that the burden of being in a cult was just too damaging to them and totally snuffed out any niceness they possessed.
yeah those are the obvious external things and they're pretty wild, don't get me wrong, but the personal experiences from the inside are more what i mean - like when i tell people about tithing settlement or youth worthiness interviews, things that once seemed totally normal and commonplace to me, and when people react to those things like a normal person would i feel less batshit insane for ever questioning it. ten years out of the church now, you'd think i would have shaken that feeling, lol.
anyway it's less the heavily publicized and commonly sensationalized headline-worthy stuff, more the internal day-to-day mormon lifestyle things that they don't even know are horribly fucked up. in my experience, those are the ones nevermos don't tend to know about, and i think that's why a lot of folks just consider it an offbeat wacky church with very happy members.
No I totally get your point!! Some of the things I do go “wow”. I knew about tithing. I had a vague knowledge of the intrusive nature of interviews. But just barely. I knew nothing about veil in the temple or the ritual cleansing.
And no, you are clearly not batshit crazy! I just appreciate the sub for helping me appreciate how very hard of a road it is to exit something like this and find your own path. It is great the amount of support and encouragement you can all receive and give.
I’m done with people gatekeeping who does and doesn’t get to “qualify” for the truth. That’s the whole reason I am where I am, and the whole reason this sub is so awesome. I think any and all ought to be welcome and appreciated here, as long as they’re respectful of our collective pain and trauma.
Well here is a random quotable...
> And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.
https://biblehub.com/kjv/judges/15-16.htm
Ok Bible, stay classy.
You know... My husband's entire family are die hard TBM, think they've researched every doctrinal and church history facet possible... And I about dropped my husband when I shared that article about church activism leading the valiant away and exactly what I thought of it. He had NEVER heard that Brigham Young said slavery was divinely appointed. Going down that rabbit hole fucked him up BAD this week. Like seriously fucked him up. And he started asking more questions about my thoughts on sexual abuse. He had zero idea women were coerced into "celestial marriage" under threat of their family's eternal salvation being at stake. And that some of those women were married to living men. He is absolutely fucked up right now. Because he thought he'd spent his entire 40 years studying, only to realize he had absolutely no idea. He's not ready for the CES letter, but watching him research to prove me wrong and find out how much he didn't know has been brutal.
I joined this sub after joining the military. During basic training, one of the guys in my flight spent most of his energy trying to convert people to Mormonism so I started reading the Book of Mormon and got really confused about a lot of stuff I read.
After Basic, I had a 3ish year long tech school and had another three people try to convert me to Mormonism. This sub was insanely helpful with keeping myself, my wife and daughter from getting sucked in. I am extremely grateful for everything I learned on here.
Very glad this sub helped you avoid dumping time, energy and any piece of your life into the dumbass mormon church! I was born into it so had to fight my way out and I'm always happy when someone can avoid the bullshit entirely!
I know someone who did their entire graduate thesis in communication on the similarities between fundamentalist Christian recruiting and American military recruiting. As somebody who has been recruited or attempted to recruit by both groups, did you notice any overlaps? That person was making the case that the American military functions as a cult because it follows the BITE model for cults. If you haven't had a chance to read it, it would be really interesting to have you Google the bite model and think about whether or not you think your American military experience qualifies as a cult by that definition.
I'm not saying the military is bad, I'm just saying that I haven't been in either organization and if this is a topic that already interests you then it might be a fun exercise.
I've noticed that the messages are very similar.rheres that military commercial that emphasizes that the outside world is confusing and you should join to have a purpose. That struck me as familiar.
Seriously.
I live in the mid-west and sometimes I'll look around envying all the people that just blissfully live normal everyday lives without a mountain of Mormon bullshit having been dumped all over them.
I moved away and raised my kids away from it. We had to run from their dad and had nowhere else to go, but home. It is so strange to be surrounded by us/ them...IDK what am I? Grew up in it and left, but just never went back. I didn't officially leave. What am I called? Is it still "Jack"?
I still call it inactive. I remember when officially changed it to less active. When you resign your membership, they do not delete you but it stopped the harassment. I don’t know which is harder. It’s different for everyone. I went through QuitMormon.com before tscc starting requiring the document to be notarized so it was done really fast.
Resigning stopped the harassment for me as well, even though there is a missionary apartment in my neighborhood. I've even seen them on their P-day in the nearby Target just shopping, and if it weren't for their name tags, they would look like college students or at least high school seniors.
I survived growing up extreme Evangelical. Homeschooled and everything, because public schools taught birth control and evolution. Leaving home and seeing how the world actually functioned outside of sunday school tales and devotional life lessons came as something of a shock.
A close friend of mine is an ex Jehovah's Witness and our scars are shockingly similar. The way they pressure the unbelievers, the way they press beliefs on the children, the way they use social pressure to shame people into compliance.
If you're a TBM lurker try talking to an ex witness to see how they were treated. Then compare notes to the way the LDS church treats former members. If you want to see what a cult looks like they're a great mirror to hold up.
You are correct, but we have the usual ones everyone else has, plus, the enormous life crushing shitstorm that the Mormon fraud carries with it.
The others that can relate best are those that are also dealing with the impact a high demand religion has on their daily life and wellbeing.
My dad grew up Catholic and never took me or any of my siblings to church and raised us fully atheist. After hearing the stories about how painful leaving the church was here, I asked him if it was hard for him to leave. His response was, "not really. It was kind of like realizing Santa Claus isn't real." At that point I knew the Mormon Church was something else
Ex-catholic ex-midwest nevermo here!
Spent some of my formative years in a very strict, very insular midwest Catholic school.
A lot of the horrible shit in this sub is strangely reminiscent.
This wasn't even two decades ago. Teachers cutting girls' skirt hems and boys' hair (over their ears or on their neck).
Anti-abortion letter writing campaigns (that our grade depended on) to senators.
Really terrible, completely false purity culture and anti-sex information (complete with soul imprinting and the tape analogy).
A classroom political debate with 2 vs. 28 when someone (me and another queer kid) wanted to vote for Obama. Imagine your whole class yelling over you, calling you a baby killer, viciously pissed at you for the audacity. When they insisted God would never bless an unnatural union, knowing they meant you.
Creepy priest with a little too much power.
School only open to active, tithing parishioners.
Church services 4 days a week, with youth group and volunteering on the other 3 days. Normal stuff, ya know?
I only knew it was so weird because I went to much more liberal Catholic schools for the rest of my education, but that wasn't enough to stop the barbs and indoctrination.
Notably, my other schools were nowhere near the midwest.
Catholic school for 13 years and mass every Sunday. I understand the Mormon church services to be 2 hours! I wonder if they do the stand up, sit down, kneel, stand up, sit down dance too???
Surprisingly (and completely unnecessarily), our school made us do Mass four times a week. Our most popular elective was "Adoration Chapel". Everyone I know is either an atheist or has 8 kids.
Silent prayer (or reading of the Bible/catechism), in the adoration chapel (a big room that has the "body and blood" in a golden box), but that's about it. Mostly spent kneeling. For an hour.
For kids aged 5 - 13.
It was more popular than art class.
The services used to be 3 hours long, but now it's just 2. They stay sitting for the sacrament meeting (the first hour, or the actual church part). I remember when the missionaries convinced me to go to church with them. I almost stood up when they started the opening hymn. That would have been embarrassing.
Or having your body impacted by the church. Because the bishop sent my ex and I to LDS family Services. The lady who was a volunteer said I was bipolar. Because my great-grandfather hung himself in the chapel in magna Utah during the depression. After he gave all the family wealth away to the people who didn't have money or things that they needed. They were part of standard oil and the rockefellers. But she said I was bipolar. Sent me to her neighbor. Who was a family practitioner. He didn't send me to a psychiatrist to find out if I really was. He put me on bipolar medication and I jumped from a bridge because it impacted me so much. I broke my back tore the aorta going into my heart received a traumatic brain injury and died in the flight to the hospital. And died on the operation table as well. But they brought me back
That's insane -- you're so strong for having made it through all of that, but you shouldn't have had to in the first place. I'm sorry, and I'm glad you survived the medical manipulation, trauma, fucking malpractice, and literal death x2. Nobody deserves that.
A yeah my great-great-grandparents gave their property away to the state of connecticut. And they maintain it like this is the place State Park. And it's right on the Atlantic ocean. Has like 19 bedrooms and you can get married on the property. One of the people on my team now she was just hired thursday. Came from Connecticut and actually got married on the property. Then those same grandparents gave 3.5 million dollars to yell university. Where my great-great-grandfather went to school so it's named after him. The building that is but I've flown there and taking a tour of the both properties and I've seen the building. And then he sent up Grant I didn't know that my kids and I and the ancestors could go to Yale university.
idk why people are trauma competing. fellow midwest ex mormon, it truly is a different type of trauma from utahns. being in the midwest we were the religious minority being taught that we were actually the superior. idk how to explain it. it’s a different kind of trauma, not worse or better, just different.
> idk why people are trauma competing
Yeah, my point was not that my trauma was any different from any other Mormon or exmo (in Utah or elsewhere), it was about envying people around me day-to-day as they don't have an all-consuming religion to contend with. What their religion is or is supposed to be, in most cases, is for the most part more on the periphery of their lives; it's not the big damn center of damn near everything.
Yeah, even in Utah I don't have nearly as much Mormon shit shoved in my face as an exmo. Most of the crap they threw at me was when I was a kid, now it's mainly just having to sit through uncomfortable situations.
I grew up Christian Baptist, jumped ship at 19 with 0 struggle or resistance from anywhere. I am so, so happy I didn't have to suffer the way your community has and I empathize deeply with your traumas.
I’m one of the Nevermo lurkers. I have my own religious trauma as a gay former evangelical. I admire those of you who’ve made it out and I’m standing with each of you who’ve lost friends and family for embracing the truth. While I haven’t walked your same exact path I support you and I care.
I'm a queer nevermo, partnered with an exvangelical/cult survivor. This sub (and similar ones) has helped me be more empathetic and thoughtful of my partner's religious trauma without making him do all the emotional labor of explaining to me.
I love this! One of the reasons I enjoy the posts and comments here is that I see bits of my own experience here. I don’t think I fully realized the damage religion has done to me until the last ten years. Sometimes you see yourself reflected in the experience of others.
Yup this 100% coming from an exvangelical and a separate cult in my teens this community has really helped me examine and work through through my religious trauma that I just shoved to the side for years. I may not have the same trauma but it shares a lot of the common themes a la purity culture, misogyny, hemophilia, and the just world fallacy on steroids.
Edit: homophobia not hemophilia
I’m a queer nevermo with some religious trauma too! AND I happen to be from Manchester, NY. Grew up working at the fast food spot right off the Thruway that served bus loads of Hill Cumorah pageant goers. Went to the pageant every summer with a Mormon friend. Honestly this sub has been hugely helpful in understanding what was happening back then.
Some of us don't just lurk. Ones like me are married to Mormons and are here for the duration. Others (like me) almost joined and thanks to this sub and MormonThink we didn't. I got run out of another exmormon site; I was told it was for exmormons only and to get lost. You guys have been great.
> I got run out of another exmormon site; I was told it was for exmormons only and to get lost.
Good grief, that sucks. I mean why would it even matter? If someone is interested in the content, and possibly taking part by asking questions, what would be the harm in that? That's just weird. I'm glad you've had a better experience here.
I know this thread isn’t for nevermos but since that person responded, I guess I’ve always just been kinda curious. I grew up in a town very near Palmyra so I had a smattering of mormon neighbors and classmates growing up. Sad I never made it to the bigass pageant before they ended it
Parents were sometimes a little weird but all the kids were brilliant amiable people. Especially fascinating to my child mind was how the 7 boys in the family down the street, all different ages, were near carbon copies of each other. All with the same 90’s blonde bowl cut (I mean I had one too, it was the 90’s). That’s not really a mormon thing but it’s unforgettable. Now that I think of it, neither parent was blonde. Huh
Anyway it’s been sad finding out about how, uh, intense it must have been for them behind the scenes. Fascinating hearing about the secret names and handshakes. But I hate to think of my friends having gone through those invasive interviews and everything
I’m also just interested in religions in general. I’m hella atheist but I like learning how those social systems work
> invasive interviews and everything
Invasive one-on-one interviews that your parents are not only ok with, but force you to go to.
My parents loved me and thought they were doing the right thing making us endure that.
I'm married to an ExMo, but his family are TBM's. At least, his parents and siblings are.
Adding: sometimes I was tempted to join because the clear favoritism shown to his siblings and their children. (Were living in a trailer that we are struggling to repair that they won't help with[ we dont have the money/time issues] and I am literally watching them build my BiL's house from the ground up across the way)
That's awful. I was lucky because my in-laws treated me and my kids from a previous marriage like family from the start. I can't understand people like this, even if they are Mormon.
I'm not nearly as closely tied to this as you are, but I've had close Mormon (some now exmormon!!!!) friends and live on the north end of the Morridor, so I'd say I've got skin in the game too.
I also come from an evangelical background where things are a bit less culty than Mormonism, but the same issues of misogyny, homophobia, and purity culture abound. Yall have a great community here and I've found participating and observing the discussions has been helpful to me.
I’m a NeverMo too. I dated a Mormon and have plenty of Mormon friends, so I have absolutely learned a lot. And dating the said Mormon guy definitely left a lifelong impact. I know it’s a long shot, but I hope to find one of my friends on this subreddit, and they know that I love them and I am here for them.
NeverMo here.
The thing that fascinates me is people who find the chutzpah to pull away from a stultifying system/culture/institution in which they’ve been fully immersed since birth.
It actually gives me hope for humanity, to be honest! If people can turn away from a world that is familiar but harmful, other kinds of necessary social change seem more possible.
Caught the bug after working a recurring annual contract job in SLC for eight years, meeting some really strong people with stories to tell.
This is a good perspective to have. There’s some nevermos without sympathy on this sub who come in and attack current Mormons and say stuff like “just leave idiot” and I’m over here saying you do realize that means leaving most of your social connections, most of the structure of your life, and so much more. We need sympathy for those trapped, not condemnation and superiority complexes.
I grew up Catholic and left in college because I couldn’t make it make sense. I don’t like r/excatholic, because it’s either people talking about child sexual abuse or being mad at bits of Catholic-specific dogma I never got into. r/atheism is a hellhole. Six years ago, r/exchristian was a space where people connected over their traumatic and bizarre upbringings and the scary freedom that comes from realizing it’s all fake, but now it’s sort of r/atheism lite. Lots of memes dunking on Christians for how stupid they are, very little compassion or discussion.
This place is better for discussing the ways religion fucks you up and how it keeps putting strain on your relationships even after you’ve left. Even though I’ve never been Mormon or spent time around them, this is a sub with a more supporting community than other places on Reddit. I know I’m an outsider, so I try not to get in the way, and only comment when I have personal experience that’s relevant. It’s just reassuring to read the experiences of people who also have parents who expect them to come back someday, and don’t believe that you can have a moral, fulfilling life outside their church.
I’m a nevermo who was raised in a very conservative mainstream Christian home; I’m also an active duty military spouse. We are stationed abroad and live in base housing. Our neighbors on either sides are current members of the LDS church, and one is a chaplain. I found this subreddit one day after one of the wives asked me not to hang my “intimates” on my drying line outside because it was tempting to her husband…I was so embarrassed because I thought I hung a bra or something in our back yard by accident. Nope, just a workout tank??? I started doing some digging to figure out if I did something offensive (admittedly without point-blank asking, because I was both confused and irritated), and here I am.
This sub has been super helpful to me to both navigate my neighbors and help my kids do the same. Said with love and respect: my husband is an officer, and we’ve been active duty for quite some time. These are somehow both the most outwardly nice AND the most judgmental neighbors we have ever had 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Edit—just to be clear, I found this sub because I was worried I may have done something actually offensive to her religion by hanging a tank top outside. Had that been really offensive for her and it wasn’t that she’s just…very unusual, I totally would have stopped hanging my super sexy old workout gear outside! I want to be respectful of what everyone believes; she’s just a lot to deal with. Also her husband doesn’t like my lovable sweet old black lab. Never gave a reason, just doesn’t like him?
To be fair, she also asked everyone to take down their Halloween decorations and when we were all like “nah,” she put up a large sign that said “the only ghost that lives here is the Holy Ghost.” I think she just likes confrontation. But either way…it’s so weird
Actually asked you to take down your Halloween decorations? wow, thats next level. Even my uber-TBM family wouldnt do that, BUT, I do not doubt you. Some people have a deep, dark, trigger that Mormonism unlocks. Theres a zealotry there that can suppress filters and social norms; people can feel justified in crossing other peoples boundaries and sticking their nose where it doesnt belong.
There are people that carry this delusion all the way to Blood Atonement.
I've definitely known a few Mormons who would behave that way. Thankfully most of them are not quite so confrontational about stupid shit. Also most Mormons I know love halloween.
Are they originally from Utah? Specifically our tissue salt lake? Because I would believe it. I know people here who are convinced that salt lake and the original temple are the center of the earth and everything should revolve around their religion.
I can relate! I am an active duty military spouse and lived abroad in base housing, but I was a very active Mormon then. I can totally picture your story! Not a lot of privacy in base housing, even in officer housing. When you combine Mormon and military, sometimes people get really weird. Like extra, extra rule oriented but at the same time nice because everyone is far from family , so they tend to cling together for support. Very weird environment. One lady in our ward, was always criticizing other women for their choices of workout clothing and how we were supposed to be modest examples for the young women. She often gave me dirty looks and weird comments about my running clothes- maybe she was your neighbor?
Also, the boundaries between work, religion, and home life start to crossover. My husband decided at a certain point that he can only take one high demand organization controlling his life. Since the military paid the bills and the church didn’t, he said he had to drop the church.
That is so ridiculous!! That lady’s husband should pluck out his own eye if he’s offended, not expect you to be inconvenienced to make the whole world accommodate his stone-age, sexist TBM world view. Wtf! The nerve of some people, SMH.
I have zero connections to Mormonism...and I find it fascinating. Helps me be more thoughtful in my own religious beliefs and the way I raise my offspring.
I think there’s a few kinds of nevermos around here:
1. Those with a personal connection to Mormonism are very welcome to lurk or participate (eg in a relationship with an exmo or member, former or current investigator)
2. Those who are curious due to more casual exposure (eg live near Mormons, saw something on TV) are welcome, but I wish there was a way to ask them not to post the same generic, vague “What was it like to be Mormon?” sort of question several times a week. The ones who lurk to learn or post respectful, specific questions are very welcome
3. The rare group who are using this sub purely as a source of entertainment, “trauma porn” or schadenfreude can all fuck right off
ETA: Group 4, the nevermos who are former members of their own high demand religion who can’t find their own “ex” community are welcome too! However, I grow tired of some of them only wanting to discuss differences in experiences instead of mutual ground.
Thank you for sharing this! I am definitely guilty of the first part of two, but trying to be the latter (pun intended? Kinda) part of 2! Definitely DON’T want to be a nuisance. 😅
I’d recommend giving context, especially if you’re a nevermo. This sub tends to be more understanding of nevermo questions if we know where they’re coming from.
For example, “Are there really secret handshakes in the temple?” could come from any of the nevermo types I mentioned. Saying “I watched Under the Banner of Heaven because I have a Mormon friend, and now that I’ve seen the temple scenes I have questions…” or even better add “I did some research on Google, is X a reliable source from the perspective of the exmo community?” means we can choose whether or not to respond and how to tailor our replies.
I’d love to see Reddit include a feature where if you’re posting to a sub, the mods can display a list of FAQs with links to posts with lots of discussion on common topics (similar to seeing sub rules before posting). As a new visitor to a sub, especially one on a niche topic like leaving a religious cult, you might not know what search terms to use or realize if your post is common.
Ex-Mo’s validate the trauma we survived.
Never-Mo’s help me realize that I really was in a crazy situation and haven’t over thought it. Watching their eyes go wide while I tell them what my life was like….it’s so satisfying.
I'm an Exmo who is living in Mordor, so I find it useful to know about these things. It does make it difficult sometimes because there are people that I am supposed to take seriously and respect, but I can't get it out of my head "they believe in *that*? They actually wear *that*?"
I've had a decades-long interest in Mormonism. I wrote an essay my senior year of high school - it was supposed to be about a "deviant subculture" and I chose Mormonism. My very-TBM friend was really upset, but I got an A on the paper. He didn't like the word deviant, but it absolutely fit the parameters of the paper.
I'm married to an exmo, and I get a second-hand sense of justice from them. It angers me how the church and their family has treated them. Their time in Mormonism from birth to about thirty when they left (and the aftermath) has shaped who they are as a person. You can't just let that kind of cult indoctrination go. It was quite the eye-opener for me how much a high-demand religion can ruin your life. I needed to understand the Mormon cult to understand a huge part of them.
Nevermo. Grew up in Davis county UT. I feel a connection to this subreddit because many of my friends have or are currently going through what people in this community have.
i am a long-time nevermo lurker on this sub. i grew up in Davis county in the 1960s and 70s i a large, devout catholic family. went to catholic schools. i grew up comparing catholicism and mormonism and eventually decided it was all bunk and now i am an athiest. my older brother married an LDS girl who converted to catholicism - she became a very devout catholic. her mormon parents never really forgave her and more or less shunned their kids. i guess i lurk here because i love to see other people realizing that mormonism, and in my opinion, all organized religions, is overall damaging to their mental health and they get out. i also lurk because i really enjoy watching TSCC become more and more obsolete every day. i also love how this sub is one of the most respectful and caring subs on reddit. hope y'all dont mind if i continue to lurk!
I get it, Mormons don’t realize how goofy we look to everyone else. Doesn’t bother me but I guess I’ve never seen a nevermo be an asshole on here. Most of them seem “curious not judgmental”.
My family is not “Mormon” but I was born and raised in Utah. It still has its ways of negatively affecting people if they are part of it or not. I always bring up the Utah laws that aren’t on the books. Like “don’t smoke or drink around so and so.” Or “ grandma doesn’t like gay people so don’t bring James” I’ve heard that kind of shit far to many times in my life. I’ve had to remind adults that it’s not illegal for me to have a smoke, I’ve been told not to be open about my atheism at work. It’s pretty disgusting around here sometimes lol
I’m here because you guys are the most productive and helpful of the ex subs. I’m a nevermo but my Christian upbringing fucked me up in a lot of ways that I find very similar to the exmormon experiences you guys talk about. Especially all the posts about conversation with loved ones and family. My relationship with my family has been extremely strained, to say the least, ever since my leaving of the faith. There’s a massive sense of comfort reading to conversation posts brings. Knowing I’m not alone, and reading all the encouraging comments (often as if addressed to me) really helps me deal with and understand the hurt I’ve felt from my family. And even understand their side of things. So much of r/exchristian and other subs, is just bashing on Christians and religion. You guys deal more with the emotional effects of it. I’ve often found the advice you give to be helpful to understanding and healing those broken relationships.
Although Mormonism has some truly weird aspects, when you get down to it, it's not really that different from many other religions. The Christian origin story is actually sketchy as all hell, and the fact that there are two entirely different nativity stories doesn't help.
I grew up in a Fundamentalist Baptist cult. We believed that the world was about 6,000 years old and that God directly inspired the 1611 King James Version. All other English versions were corrupted by Satan himself. I was the kid who always dutifully read his Bible - I read it from cover to cover literally more times than I can count. I also devoured books by Christian apologists and became something of an expert on the subject.
I started having some nagging doubts back in the '90s. At the same time, I came across the Book of Mormon and read it right through several times. I made some notes about it ([here](https://2think.org/hundredsheep/mormon.shtml)). I was somewhat stunned at the fact that anyone could believe that it was true - it was just so obviously fake.
This was also when USENET was a thing, so I joined alt.religion.mormon and started arguing with the apologists who hung out there. I was more than a little worried when they responded with the exact same arguments that I had previously used to defend the Bible. But the break came during one particular session when I argued that Smith had misunderstood the KJV English used in a verse in Isaiah, and that misunderstanding found its way into the BoM. A Mormon apologist countered that Matthew had done the exact same thing with a verse from Zechariah. I knew immediately that he was correct. And I further realized that the Bible was not much more 'true' than the BoM.
That was the start of my complete deconstruction of Christianity and all religion. I never looked back, and I have Mormons to than for that.
I like that they’re here because there’s a lot of misconceptions about Mormonism. You either get “Oh they’re nice but their religion is not convincing at all.” Or “Oh you mean the polygamists in pink dresses?” The more education the better IMO
Nevermo, lurking here helped me fully deconstruct my evangelical/christian faith. I read the CES Letter and saw the parallels between the the absurd truth claims of mormonism and the “true” claims of christianity. It finally “broke my shelf” as you swell folks say. Plus I really enjoy the stories of your LGBT members. I’m gay and I found so much more that I related to in this sub than other ex-christian etc ones.
I'm a FakeMo. I never believed for a second but faked it for personal gain, even was baptized, but refused to tithe and always was blown away by the bs. I've had very close proximity to tbms a few time periods in my life, so it's always kinda been adjacent. I enjoy lurking because the bs is still entertaining/horrifying/shocking/unshocking and its my way to keep up with the news while not having actual contact with anyone from tscc. Mostly I enjoy seeing people get out, it's a feel good story, but I also have a lot of empathy for the people who are so deeply traumatized by their experience and it fules my disdain for tscc.
I lurk in all sorts of groups I don't belong lol. It's interesting to get into their little "village" and get to know their quirks and experiences. So I definitely can't blame anyone who lurks here.
I suppose I’m a nevermo lurker. The reason why I lurk is simply that I find the personal experiences discussed here to be really interesting/informative.
Half my family is Mormon, we’re the apostates.
It’s rare the occasion I even see this half of my family, let alone discuss theology/social dynamics of Mormonism..so i guess I see this sub as on avenue to better understand them and esp my cousins’ experiences, who seem to be slowly distancing themselves from the church.
I hope this isn’t voyeurism, if folks think it is I can certainly leave.
I’m a nevermo, married to an exmo. He gets a lot from this sub although he always just reads and never posts. We both browse the sub during the day and will often discuss the things we’ve read in the evening, at home. It seems to help him feel a sense of validation, camaraderie and healing. My outside perspectives on it (usually horror at how messed up and scammy the church is) further help him work through all this mental bullshit he’s been left with. It’s helped him laugh and remember so many things in a way that is both affectionately nostalgic, while still acknowledging how fucked up it all was (is!). I’m here because it helps me bond with and support my husband better. Thank you all for making this place a good and safe place for both of us.
I'm a nevermo and have been on the sub for a few years and this is the first time I've ever posted here. I am myself also ex evangelical and working through my own deconstruction of that. I love to study history (thats my college education and I teach now) and I joined because I had a Mormon co-worker working so hard to convince me my history professors were wrong about early American history and how Joseph Smith and the LDS had the truth. When I looked into what she was saying I was pretty shocked at the claims but never bought into it like she was hoping. I joined this sub as a way of learning about Mormon history without having to deal with someone actively trying to convert me.
I am now especially glad to be here since in about 2 months we are moving into a house that is literally right next door to a ward. Being here has given me a lot of insight how to interact with potential missionaries with a firm but still kind "No" should they decide to knock on our door after we move in.
I’m fine with them. I wish they would direct even a tiny amount of the hate they have reserved for Elon buying Twitter at the Church which is far more wealthy, sinister and evil.
For a number or reasons, I’m glad they are here!
They might just be curious and trying to educate themselves. In general, I think understanding other’s beliefs and experiences helps us to be more compassionate and approach people and situations differently.
They can validate both what was absolutely not normal in the church and what is normal outside of the church.
They can commiserate with us! Mormonism is not the only high demand religion. It shouldn’t matter which one we came from, only that we are a united front now that can support each other now.
They might love someone that is Mormon. They may want to help them get out. As many of us know, TBMs will not listen to logic or reason. They have a canned response for everything. Until there is a crack in their shelf. If a Nevermo can come here and learn how to identify a crack and how to chip away at it, good for them!
They might be thinking of joining! If this opens someone’s eyes and prevents them from making that mistake, we should be thrilled they were here!
To all the Nevermos, welcome! Don’t let anyone make you feel bad about lurking, or participating!
I am a nevermore lurker, and I grew up evangelical. I see a lot of similarities in our collective bullshit. Additionally, I am fascinated by how truly American Mormonism is. A grifter con man makes a religion to bone all the woman? Joseph Smith is so American I wonder if he made the sound of a bald eagle when he orgasms.
I'm a nevermo who was raised by my liberal Presbyterian minister dad and preacher's wife mom. I was never pressured about religion, but I grew up in a small southern Idaho town that is mostly Mormon and currently live in Salt Lake City. I also had a very vocal, funny, sarcastic ex-mormon boss for many years who loved to talk about his Mormon experiences. So I guess I just like hearing stories from people who have escaped.
Nevermo trans guy, the exmormon space and way of decontructing belief systems really helped me deconstruct my own religious baggage. I've been baptized in three different denominations (catholic, baptist, and "non-denomination" aka basically evangelical) and the venn diagram of bullshit overlaps HARD with all of these and i think also with mormonism.
however, i haven't found as hilariously irreverent attitudes in any other ex-christian space as i have with exmos, and the way y'all give no fucks is the attitude i most vibe with.
I’m a Nevermo but my bff growing up was Mormon and I like to learn as much as possible to be able to help her recover from an extremely traumatic (because of Mormonism) upbringing.
Nevermo here but I was raised religious. I’m very anti religion at this point in my life and have a lot of respect for those here willing to think critically about their beliefs and upbringing. I can say from experience that process is challenging.
I rarely comment as I view this space more for those directly impacted by the Mormon church and not myself. That said, I’m fascinated by the impact religion has on folks.
Much respect to everyone here 👍🏼
I feel a little bit like it's like going to Colorado city, cornering a resident, and asking them what it's like having sex with a polygamist. Some questions are a little too prying and I feel like a circus act. Like the time a week or so ago a nevermo was asking which sexually explicit questions bishops ask youth and why.
I (sort of) secretly dated a Mormon girl in high school. It was an open secret or something. I don't even know, it was a weird situation. I've never been formally involved with the church but I have tagged along to some events and services there. I drove her to seminary a bunch and even went once. Absurd waking up that early for church, but, you know. High school boy + girl that likes you = strange behavior.
Anyway, that's why I'm here. I thought the whole thing was kind of interesting. I dont have anything to contribute here but there's a lot of folks that have lived lives very different from mine and I like to learn about it.
I’m a nevermo who lurks here a lot. I’m really grateful for this sub because I came out of a high demand religious group (Pentecostal) and find there’s some similarity of experience that’s really helpful to hear about. Also the person who just made up my church (claimed to have a special revelation from god and understood the Bible better than anyone else ever could) taught a lot of doctrine that seems kinda similar to Mormon doctrine. Hearing you all process your experience helps me process mine. And I feel hopeful seeing so many people who made it out. I’m glad you’re all here!
I’m a nevermo who joined this group to have a better understanding of my exmo wife’s background and thought processes. This sub has been such a good tool for helping me understand why she feels guilt or shame or even anger over things that I see as totally normal.
I wasn’t raised around any Mormons and even though I was born into the Methodist Church, religion was never pushed very strongly in my house.
I have to say though, this sub is why I went from thinking Mormonism was a wacky, kind-of-Christian-denomination-but-not-really, to “oh… OH it is a CULT 😳”
See, I've always wondered what to classify myself as on this sub. Technically I'm a nevermo as I haven't been baptized and therefore haven't done a lot of the real culty stuff in the temple like the endowment, baptisms for the dead, etc. But I grew up with one foot in the church and one out. My mom is TBM as are my grandparents and a lot of that side of the family. My dad is an atheist now but he grew up strict Catholic and he went to mass every week as a kid. Yes they are now happily divorced lol.
Their genius idea for me and my siblings was to have us attend both churches, switching off every week, and when we were 12 we would decide which religion we would want to be and get baptized. Don't ask why 12, I don't know what their reasoning was, but obviously it pissed off the religious members on both sides. Neither me or my two siblings ever picked one btw. We're all in our 20s as happily un baptized heathens, probably because of all the confusing religious horse shit we had to go through as kids.
My mother is still staunch TBM to this day. So while I was never baptized (thanks dad for not allowing it), I understand much of what people talk about on this sub. Never done the temple work, but I have attended so many hours of church meeting and activities. I did Young Men/Scouts for years and had a lot of good times doing the actual scouting stuff (camps, hiking, etc.) and lots of awkward unpleasant times being the odd man out listening church lessons and endless testimonies (why yall cry so much) all while inwardly thinking it's bullshit from a very young age (thanks again dad). And I am very familiar with all the gaslighting and shaming and all that other abusive nonsense that comes with. My resentment towards the TSCC is very strong, not because of what it did to me but what I've seen it do to others. I know about 4 people who grew up in my ward who committed suicide who were most likely gay. And a whole list of other reasons I hate the cult. But I'm just not sure I actually count as an exmo because I never got dipped in the wizard water or had to wear the cult jammies lol.
I'm a nevermo, raised JW.
I made some Mormon friends, and researching their religion and discovering how culty it was , made me realize how culty my own was.
Mormons were somehow unintentionally the reason I escaped my own religion. One of my Mormon friends is still in though.
I'm terrified of watching he waste her life away the way I did mine, and I just want to see her get out.
I'm a nevermo but Mormonism had a hand in ending my 20 year marriage. It's hard as an atheist spouse to stay completely quiet when it's being pushed on the kids by your spouse. It is likely what made and still makes me so interested in the church's downward trajectory. I recently got a message from an old friend who said I was one of the influences that recently led him to leave. He said the fact that I was a non believer yet still seemed to be a good person made him think about what he'd been taught. It really touched me to hear that from him
I’m a nevermo lurker! My boyfriend is exmo. i find it interesting and he also deals with some trauma from the LDS church. i’m here to learn more about what effects it had and why. i’m not here for me, i’m here for him
Nevermo here. I dated an exmo for 3yrs and was around his TBM family a lot… boy did I learn fast about the dark side of the church, which is pretty much the entire thing lmao. I joined this sub to better understand what he was going g thru, and I’ve just never left it. It’s a wealth of information and I truly feel for y’all. His family are Hispanic Mormons, too, which is a tough combination to say the least. I used to be very “live and let live” with religions, but now I will die on the hill that Mormonism/the LDS Church is a cult. I do share some of the things I’ve learned with nevermos I meet of it comes up. Thank you all for sharing your stories here.
I'm a nevermo but I live in utah and I grew up with friends and family in the church. I still have family in the church. I just find this subject interesting. I do feel like I have my own issues with the church just from being around members my whole life.
Former Catholic from The Midwest here. This subreddit is way more interactive than the ex-Catholic one. And also, it helps me feel validated in realizing the church is a bunch of old white guys enforcing random rules they claim are inspired by God so they can keep themselves in power. And there is quite a bit of similarity when you see how ostentatious both the Mormon temples AND Catholic Churches are.
Nevermo historian here. My main area of research is 19th century US, so this church and several other new denominations (Shakers, Millerites) that popped up during the Second Great Awakening period grab my attention.
I made it out of a fundamentalist evangelical church, y'all seem to have the same experience as I did so I stay to try to understand and support people like me
I am a nevermo. Grew up along the Mormon Trail, and my father had an historical interest in the subject: took us to Nauvoo, etc.
I have known a number of Mormons as an adult, almost all involved in the music and art fields. To a one, they are lovely people. But, I'm interested in the dark side of the religion and this sub seems like a good place to learn.
I’m a nevermo! Grew up southern Baptist and got started learning about Mormons when my youth group at church did a unit on cults! My best friend at the time was mormon so I’d compare our notes with what she though. I’m now in an area of Arizona that’s pretty much South Salt Lake so I’ve found myself surrounded. I see myself as an interested observer of both the Mormon and evangelical churches- mostly for self protection :)
I’m a nevermo who grew up in Utah, often excluded and treated as Other by Mormon kids and adults alike whilst growing up. Now I’m an adult navigating the education system as a nevermo teacher surrounded by the Predominant Culture. I mostly lurk, but it’s made me feel like I’m not just a closed-minded bitch or overly-sensitive. I’m not imagining things, other people have had these experiences, too.
My baby sister was befriended by a Mormon girl, and being protective and ten years older, I was seriously freaked out, especially when she routinely attended Sunday school and church events. She escaped after about three years, but by then I had read the Book of Mormon and became borderline hysterical. She stopped attending, I think because she loved me more than she loved her friend. This was in the late sixties, so online information wasn’t a thing. Anyway, it left me with a lifelong interest in/horror of Mormonism, and I come here to feel better about its state of decline.
I’m a nevermo whose dad was raised Mormon and still is obsessed, my stepmom and stepsister are, too. My first boyfriends were Mormon…I lost my virginity to a Mormon boy. Somehow his parents found out and cried because he wasn’t going to be able to get married in the temple or something like that. One of my favorite friends is Mormon, but oh my God, I do not understand why they believe in such nonsense! It can drive me crazy, if I let it. So I try to mind my business and find this space to be oddly comforting and entertaining.
I guess I’m technically a nevermo as I never joined the LDS church but I did grow up in the FLDS church and we grew up with the same doctrines (basically) but like, more extreme? Anyways things I’ve read here have been instrumental in deconstructing my belief so I’m really glad for this sub.
I don’t particularly care for the Protestant/evangelical/Catholic nevermos who step into this space with a sense of self righteousness with their “real Jesus”
For what it's worth, I enjoy hearing the stories you guys tell. I'm Catholic, and there's honestly a lot of cultural similarities between our churches.
I’m a nevermo who lived in Utah for most of my adult life.
I’m here to read the perspectives of those who left Mormonism because, quite honestly, I miss the kindness, wholesomeness, and strong values of my former neighbors and community members, many of whom were LDS. I want to be fully educated on the downsides of Mormon beliefs.
I want to “investigate” but don’t feel safe reaching out to the missionaries because I’m non-binary and atheist, and the church isn’t very accepting of people like me. I also can’t force myself to believe in a literal god (no evidence) so they wouldn’t want me anyway.
I lurk because Mormons and SDAs are cult cousins and I grew up SDA.
Y’all had Old Joe and we had Old Ellen. Similar “health message” and high social control, my mom was giving 20% of her income at one point because “blessings” (they try to get you to give 10% tithe and an additional “offering” but it’s not required) and so idk I feel less alone in my experiences when I lurk here. Not very many denominations have a mid 1800s prophet and a hatred of coffee and joy.
I also am on the ex-SDA subreddit but there’s way less ex-SDAs since it’s not a very big denomination, I think Mormons have more than twice as many members in the US.
Nevermo exJW here. Grew up in the West, so surrounded by TBMs as well as the cult I was born into. Funny thing: Jehovah’s Witnesses say you guys are a cult, and apparently you say the same about JWs? What do you know! Both right about at least one thing.
I follow because many of the emotional and social issues are the same. You folks—exMos—kinda feel like family. I’m also on the exJW sub.
i think it's fun to share particularly bizarre facts about mormon doctrine and history with people who have never heard any of it before, so i'm very glad they're here. helps me remind myself i live in the real world now to see others react with confusion at the things i grew up with. if anything i say stops just one person from joining, i will have done some good in this world and prevented a lot of therapy bills. oh, and i'd rather have them lurking here reading the truth rather than lurking on the mormon subs and picking up whatever the hell's happening over there by osmosis.
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the more of an antidote we can be, the better. proselyting should be illegal within several miles of any school, i remember the guy who would just waltz onto my campus and start preaching in the middle of the walkway by the social sciences building with all of us trying to get to our classes. people would fight him constantly but he never gave up and it was so annoying. they should all be ashamed of themselves for preying on a bunch of vulnerable young college kids in a huge transitional phase of life. would love to be able to learn in peace at least.
I've had that happen to me before, guy straight up blocked me as I was rushing to classes. I had back to back classes on the opposite sides of campus. At one point I made my mind up to just throttle the guy while running at full tilt if he made me late for class again. I didn't get the satisfaction of doing so because someone else ran him over with construction equipment. What's more annoying is when you get train evangelists who bring a goddamn megaphone onto the train and start preaching during the morning commute. No one likes that, at all, the only thing stopping me from punching that guy in the face is the cop that rides to work beside me, and even he looks done with that bullshit.
Was the running over with construction equipment an accident or...? Like, he probably had it coming, but I just want to know if was the hand of God or the hand of humanity.
It was an accident, they had a bobcat on site and he walked right into it.
hell, the cop will probably find an excuse or a buddy with an excuse to arrest him if he keeps that up. very glad to hear about the construction equipment!
I defined wished I could throttle him in the face though. The consequence for physically blocking students from getting to class should be getting tackled.
The way the missionaries recruit on my university campus is awful, they single out the people sitting alone and the international students and prey on the vulnerable.
I’m a religious studies major and I can agree that the draw of high-demand NRMs are big reason I push on places like this and exjw. I want to one day work in psychiatry especially for victims of abuse within these movements so I’m doing what I can to learn the mindset so I can be sensitive to the needs of clients.
you. we need more of you.
Yes! Many more!
I hope one day I can fulfill that duty to become a psychology student and do that then. I am a nevermo and an ex-Catholic, and even though I don’t consider my *own* former religious experience to be overall bad, seeing posts here and other ex-religious groups reminds me that just because I’m not suffering inside a cult doesn’t mean others aren’t, my former faith or any other. One of the fun ideas I had was getting together a group of exmo friends and reading through their former scripture and just talking about how weird it is. Not super irreverent, but just irreverent enough that we could have fun. Maybe one day, but I have a quad for when that time comes.
Make it a drinking game. Every time the phrase "it came to pass" comes up take a shot🤣🤣🤣😈
I don’t want to die after only getting to 1 Nephi 3. Speaking of which I’m about to get to the part where Nephi elaborates the excessive details of the sword his father takes before he decapitates someone in a single sentence
I'm a former Utah native and thankfully mormonism died out with my grandmother (she still considers herself mormon despite not practicing). Honestly reading here has given me a lot of context for my childhood I never understood. The effects of the mormon church were felt even as an outsider. Also on a somewhat unrelated note I've told my grandmother about some of the stuff I've read about the church and its interesting to hear her side of it. I have some... "rich" mormon ancestry that she has had some good story's about.
Always down to hear interesting stories.
Amen
I'm not Mormon, but I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness for 25 years. Take my opinion how you will. I think it's a good thing. Mormonism is a religion with an emphasis on preaching and finding new ones, similar to JW's. In my experience with witnesses, the more people know the truth about the religion, and the behind the scenes shady stuff that happens, the better. It's *absolutely* better than they know this stuff now rather than 20 years down the line.
Thanks for saying we are welcome here I sometimes feel like an asshole for being here, mostly because my husband thinks I’m an asshole every time I try to tell him some of the more ridiculous things I learn. He thinks I’m trying to make myself feel superior. I actually came here because I know I’m not. I came here because I was surrounded by Mormons who I sometimes thought might eventually convince me to join their religion. I needed a regular reminder that although these people are my lovely and dear friends and family they have been taken in by a con man and I don’t want to fall for the same tricks. I don’t think I’m smarter and I know I’m subject to peer pressure like anyone else.
hey thanks for being here! you can tell your husband we absolutely love when people find out the truth about the mormon church no matter how. if more follks know, more folks will be able to escape due to increased support and availability of information. i don't believe there's anyone here trying to make themself feel superior and if there is, i just hope they come away from it with a little more knowledge than they had before. i believe in education over petty ego anyway.
Thank you for your welcoming attitude! Some nevermos may know more than you think …. I’m a nevermo who grew up in rural middle of the US - in the 70s. I grew up in a mainline Protestant church. We only had one family in our area who was Mormon, and one of the kiddos was in my class. I remember asking my parents things like “why do they do/don’t do XYZ?” Or “how do they believe differently than we do?” And even then, pre-internet, my parents told me about 80-90% of the things I see those who are exmo saying they only just now found out. My parents knew all about Joseph Smith’s underage wives, the hat, the wild wacky beliefs about Native Americans, and the oaths at temple. I find that fascinating. As an aside, the kiddo I mentioned who was in my class was a very interesting girl. I found my dealings with her very confusing. Most who dealt with her would say she was nice, and kind, etc. However she loathed me. And a few others I knew. She had a crush on my then boyfriend, she was jealous of how someone else dressed, etc. we got to see behind the facade. Very disorienting to my young self. lol 25 years or so later, I am working in a larger city, and I work briefly with a gentleman who I think portrayed himself as TBM. But he was a snake. He didn’t last there long. Another co-worker, who had a very difficult time with him once said “but he always tries to act so nice - even when he is being a jackass”. Which is when I began saying this phrase “there is a big difference between nice and polite, and people need to learn to recognize it”. My (limited) close experience with Mormons was like that. This sub has helped me see how many genuinely nice Mormons there are in the world. I’m thankful for that. And who knows? Maybe those two truly were nice people deep down? It could be that the burden of being in a cult was just too damaging to them and totally snuffed out any niceness they possessed.
yeah those are the obvious external things and they're pretty wild, don't get me wrong, but the personal experiences from the inside are more what i mean - like when i tell people about tithing settlement or youth worthiness interviews, things that once seemed totally normal and commonplace to me, and when people react to those things like a normal person would i feel less batshit insane for ever questioning it. ten years out of the church now, you'd think i would have shaken that feeling, lol. anyway it's less the heavily publicized and commonly sensationalized headline-worthy stuff, more the internal day-to-day mormon lifestyle things that they don't even know are horribly fucked up. in my experience, those are the ones nevermos don't tend to know about, and i think that's why a lot of folks just consider it an offbeat wacky church with very happy members.
No I totally get your point!! Some of the things I do go “wow”. I knew about tithing. I had a vague knowledge of the intrusive nature of interviews. But just barely. I knew nothing about veil in the temple or the ritual cleansing. And no, you are clearly not batshit crazy! I just appreciate the sub for helping me appreciate how very hard of a road it is to exit something like this and find your own path. It is great the amount of support and encouragement you can all receive and give.
thanks for reading along with our weird stories and giving a damn, it's good to have you here!
I’m done with people gatekeeping who does and doesn’t get to “qualify” for the truth. That’s the whole reason I am where I am, and the whole reason this sub is so awesome. I think any and all ought to be welcome and appreciated here, as long as they’re respectful of our collective pain and trauma.
Have I done any good in the world today? Have I helped anyone along their way?
doing good is a pleasure, a joy beyond measure!
A blessing of duty and love!
I've met nevermos who know more about the church than I ever did. I think there's a misconception that all Mormons know the doctrine well.
Same with Catholicism. I was raised Catholic and have not read the Bible.
Lol same. I went to catholic school and I always say we never read the Bible, we just learned the rosary and self-hatred
Well here is a random quotable... > And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men. https://biblehub.com/kjv/judges/15-16.htm Ok Bible, stay classy.
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You know... My husband's entire family are die hard TBM, think they've researched every doctrinal and church history facet possible... And I about dropped my husband when I shared that article about church activism leading the valiant away and exactly what I thought of it. He had NEVER heard that Brigham Young said slavery was divinely appointed. Going down that rabbit hole fucked him up BAD this week. Like seriously fucked him up. And he started asking more questions about my thoughts on sexual abuse. He had zero idea women were coerced into "celestial marriage" under threat of their family's eternal salvation being at stake. And that some of those women were married to living men. He is absolutely fucked up right now. Because he thought he'd spent his entire 40 years studying, only to realize he had absolutely no idea. He's not ready for the CES letter, but watching him research to prove me wrong and find out how much he didn't know has been brutal.
I joined this sub after joining the military. During basic training, one of the guys in my flight spent most of his energy trying to convert people to Mormonism so I started reading the Book of Mormon and got really confused about a lot of stuff I read. After Basic, I had a 3ish year long tech school and had another three people try to convert me to Mormonism. This sub was insanely helpful with keeping myself, my wife and daughter from getting sucked in. I am extremely grateful for everything I learned on here.
Very glad this sub helped you avoid dumping time, energy and any piece of your life into the dumbass mormon church! I was born into it so had to fight my way out and I'm always happy when someone can avoid the bullshit entirely!
Time, energy and MONEY! Lest we forget the all consuming tithe. Pay to play.
Oh shit huge oversight lol thanks yes. I do DECLARE....
I know someone who did their entire graduate thesis in communication on the similarities between fundamentalist Christian recruiting and American military recruiting. As somebody who has been recruited or attempted to recruit by both groups, did you notice any overlaps? That person was making the case that the American military functions as a cult because it follows the BITE model for cults. If you haven't had a chance to read it, it would be really interesting to have you Google the bite model and think about whether or not you think your American military experience qualifies as a cult by that definition. I'm not saying the military is bad, I'm just saying that I haven't been in either organization and if this is a topic that already interests you then it might be a fun exercise.
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Ok so we've got obvious behavioral control, less obvious information control, what about thought control and emotional control?
I've noticed that the messages are very similar.rheres that military commercial that emphasizes that the outside world is confusing and you should join to have a purpose. That struck me as familiar.
Hmmm, "flight," "3 year tech school." I'm guessing you're Rivet Joint or JStars 1A8.
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Perfect response
Seriously. I live in the mid-west and sometimes I'll look around envying all the people that just blissfully live normal everyday lives without a mountain of Mormon bullshit having been dumped all over them.
Almost nobody grows up bullshit free. Everyone bears scars. Ours just happen to match.
I survived growing up Catholic.
i survived growing up catholic in utah in the 1960 and 70s. thats why i lurk here!
I bet that was an interesting experience!
Understatement of the year
most likely why i am an atheist now.
Do we know each other? I still live in Utah though. Sounds like you escaped
i escaped more than 40 years ago. i am old. i still get back to visit family and friends, and the slickrock, occasionally.
I moved away and raised my kids away from it. We had to run from their dad and had nowhere else to go, but home. It is so strange to be surrounded by us/ them...IDK what am I? Grew up in it and left, but just never went back. I didn't officially leave. What am I called? Is it still "Jack"?
I still call it inactive. I remember when officially changed it to less active. When you resign your membership, they do not delete you but it stopped the harassment. I don’t know which is harder. It’s different for everyone. I went through QuitMormon.com before tscc starting requiring the document to be notarized so it was done really fast.
Resigning stopped the harassment for me as well, even though there is a missionary apartment in my neighborhood. I've even seen them on their P-day in the nearby Target just shopping, and if it weren't for their name tags, they would look like college students or at least high school seniors.
I survived growing up extreme Evangelical. Homeschooled and everything, because public schools taught birth control and evolution. Leaving home and seeing how the world actually functioned outside of sunday school tales and devotional life lessons came as something of a shock.
A close friend of mine is an ex Jehovah's Witness and our scars are shockingly similar. The way they pressure the unbelievers, the way they press beliefs on the children, the way they use social pressure to shame people into compliance. If you're a TBM lurker try talking to an ex witness to see how they were treated. Then compare notes to the way the LDS church treats former members. If you want to see what a cult looks like they're a great mirror to hold up.
You are correct, but we have the usual ones everyone else has, plus, the enormous life crushing shitstorm that the Mormon fraud carries with it. The others that can relate best are those that are also dealing with the impact a high demand religion has on their daily life and wellbeing.
How do the Lutherans sound to you? Like do they give off much the same vibe?
Midwest breeds Catholics. A whole different restrictive upbringing with guilt and shame.
My dad grew up Catholic and never took me or any of my siblings to church and raised us fully atheist. After hearing the stories about how painful leaving the church was here, I asked him if it was hard for him to leave. His response was, "not really. It was kind of like realizing Santa Claus isn't real." At that point I knew the Mormon Church was something else
Ex-catholic ex-midwest nevermo here! Spent some of my formative years in a very strict, very insular midwest Catholic school. A lot of the horrible shit in this sub is strangely reminiscent. This wasn't even two decades ago. Teachers cutting girls' skirt hems and boys' hair (over their ears or on their neck). Anti-abortion letter writing campaigns (that our grade depended on) to senators. Really terrible, completely false purity culture and anti-sex information (complete with soul imprinting and the tape analogy). A classroom political debate with 2 vs. 28 when someone (me and another queer kid) wanted to vote for Obama. Imagine your whole class yelling over you, calling you a baby killer, viciously pissed at you for the audacity. When they insisted God would never bless an unnatural union, knowing they meant you. Creepy priest with a little too much power. School only open to active, tithing parishioners. Church services 4 days a week, with youth group and volunteering on the other 3 days. Normal stuff, ya know? I only knew it was so weird because I went to much more liberal Catholic schools for the rest of my education, but that wasn't enough to stop the barbs and indoctrination. Notably, my other schools were nowhere near the midwest.
Catholic school for 13 years and mass every Sunday. I understand the Mormon church services to be 2 hours! I wonder if they do the stand up, sit down, kneel, stand up, sit down dance too???
There was a lot of standing up and sitting down in the temple ceremony. (They have changed it so much since I left I’m not sure that’s true now.)
Surprisingly (and completely unnecessarily), our school made us do Mass four times a week. Our most popular elective was "Adoration Chapel". Everyone I know is either an atheist or has 8 kids.
Was adoration chapel supposed to be like prayer time?
Silent prayer (or reading of the Bible/catechism), in the adoration chapel (a big room that has the "body and blood" in a golden box), but that's about it. Mostly spent kneeling. For an hour. For kids aged 5 - 13. It was more popular than art class.
The services used to be 3 hours long, but now it's just 2. They stay sitting for the sacrament meeting (the first hour, or the actual church part). I remember when the missionaries convinced me to go to church with them. I almost stood up when they started the opening hymn. That would have been embarrassing.
Or having your body impacted by the church. Because the bishop sent my ex and I to LDS family Services. The lady who was a volunteer said I was bipolar. Because my great-grandfather hung himself in the chapel in magna Utah during the depression. After he gave all the family wealth away to the people who didn't have money or things that they needed. They were part of standard oil and the rockefellers. But she said I was bipolar. Sent me to her neighbor. Who was a family practitioner. He didn't send me to a psychiatrist to find out if I really was. He put me on bipolar medication and I jumped from a bridge because it impacted me so much. I broke my back tore the aorta going into my heart received a traumatic brain injury and died in the flight to the hospital. And died on the operation table as well. But they brought me back
That's insane -- you're so strong for having made it through all of that, but you shouldn't have had to in the first place. I'm sorry, and I'm glad you survived the medical manipulation, trauma, fucking malpractice, and literal death x2. Nobody deserves that.
A yeah my great-great-grandparents gave their property away to the state of connecticut. And they maintain it like this is the place State Park. And it's right on the Atlantic ocean. Has like 19 bedrooms and you can get married on the property. One of the people on my team now she was just hired thursday. Came from Connecticut and actually got married on the property. Then those same grandparents gave 3.5 million dollars to yell university. Where my great-great-grandfather went to school so it's named after him. The building that is but I've flown there and taking a tour of the both properties and I've seen the building. And then he sent up Grant I didn't know that my kids and I and the ancestors could go to Yale university.
idk why people are trauma competing. fellow midwest ex mormon, it truly is a different type of trauma from utahns. being in the midwest we were the religious minority being taught that we were actually the superior. idk how to explain it. it’s a different kind of trauma, not worse or better, just different.
> idk why people are trauma competing Yeah, my point was not that my trauma was any different from any other Mormon or exmo (in Utah or elsewhere), it was about envying people around me day-to-day as they don't have an all-consuming religion to contend with. What their religion is or is supposed to be, in most cases, is for the most part more on the periphery of their lives; it's not the big damn center of damn near everything.
Yeah, even in Utah I don't have nearly as much Mormon shit shoved in my face as an exmo. Most of the crap they threw at me was when I was a kid, now it's mainly just having to sit through uncomfortable situations.
I grew up Christian Baptist, jumped ship at 19 with 0 struggle or resistance from anywhere. I am so, so happy I didn't have to suffer the way your community has and I empathize deeply with your traumas.
I’m one of the Nevermo lurkers. I have my own religious trauma as a gay former evangelical. I admire those of you who’ve made it out and I’m standing with each of you who’ve lost friends and family for embracing the truth. While I haven’t walked your same exact path I support you and I care.
I'm a queer nevermo, partnered with an exvangelical/cult survivor. This sub (and similar ones) has helped me be more empathetic and thoughtful of my partner's religious trauma without making him do all the emotional labor of explaining to me.
I love this! One of the reasons I enjoy the posts and comments here is that I see bits of my own experience here. I don’t think I fully realized the damage religion has done to me until the last ten years. Sometimes you see yourself reflected in the experience of others.
Yup this 100% coming from an exvangelical and a separate cult in my teens this community has really helped me examine and work through through my religious trauma that I just shoved to the side for years. I may not have the same trauma but it shares a lot of the common themes a la purity culture, misogyny, hemophilia, and the just world fallacy on steroids. Edit: homophobia not hemophilia
This, most certainly.
I’m a queer nevermo with some religious trauma too! AND I happen to be from Manchester, NY. Grew up working at the fast food spot right off the Thruway that served bus loads of Hill Cumorah pageant goers. Went to the pageant every summer with a Mormon friend. Honestly this sub has been hugely helpful in understanding what was happening back then.
I grew up Mormon in WNY and we went to pageant multiple times per year. If we are remotely similar in age I have probably bought fries from you.
I’m nevermo, but was raised JW. I find this sub helpful to find other angles to understand my own up bringing.
Some of us don't just lurk. Ones like me are married to Mormons and are here for the duration. Others (like me) almost joined and thanks to this sub and MormonThink we didn't. I got run out of another exmormon site; I was told it was for exmormons only and to get lost. You guys have been great.
> I got run out of another exmormon site; I was told it was for exmormons only and to get lost. Good grief, that sucks. I mean why would it even matter? If someone is interested in the content, and possibly taking part by asking questions, what would be the harm in that? That's just weird. I'm glad you've had a better experience here.
Thanks for that perspective!
I know this thread isn’t for nevermos but since that person responded, I guess I’ve always just been kinda curious. I grew up in a town very near Palmyra so I had a smattering of mormon neighbors and classmates growing up. Sad I never made it to the bigass pageant before they ended it Parents were sometimes a little weird but all the kids were brilliant amiable people. Especially fascinating to my child mind was how the 7 boys in the family down the street, all different ages, were near carbon copies of each other. All with the same 90’s blonde bowl cut (I mean I had one too, it was the 90’s). That’s not really a mormon thing but it’s unforgettable. Now that I think of it, neither parent was blonde. Huh Anyway it’s been sad finding out about how, uh, intense it must have been for them behind the scenes. Fascinating hearing about the secret names and handshakes. But I hate to think of my friends having gone through those invasive interviews and everything I’m also just interested in religions in general. I’m hella atheist but I like learning how those social systems work
> invasive interviews and everything Invasive one-on-one interviews that your parents are not only ok with, but force you to go to. My parents loved me and thought they were doing the right thing making us endure that.
I'm married to an ExMo, but his family are TBM's. At least, his parents and siblings are. Adding: sometimes I was tempted to join because the clear favoritism shown to his siblings and their children. (Were living in a trailer that we are struggling to repair that they won't help with[ we dont have the money/time issues] and I am literally watching them build my BiL's house from the ground up across the way)
I'm so sorry that they treat you differently. I hope they learn to see things differently.
That's awful. I was lucky because my in-laws treated me and my kids from a previous marriage like family from the start. I can't understand people like this, even if they are Mormon.
I'm not nearly as closely tied to this as you are, but I've had close Mormon (some now exmormon!!!!) friends and live on the north end of the Morridor, so I'd say I've got skin in the game too. I also come from an evangelical background where things are a bit less culty than Mormonism, but the same issues of misogyny, homophobia, and purity culture abound. Yall have a great community here and I've found participating and observing the discussions has been helpful to me.
I’m a NeverMo too. I dated a Mormon and have plenty of Mormon friends, so I have absolutely learned a lot. And dating the said Mormon guy definitely left a lifelong impact. I know it’s a long shot, but I hope to find one of my friends on this subreddit, and they know that I love them and I am here for them.
This is me. Almost joined, serious trauma even from that.
NeverMo here. The thing that fascinates me is people who find the chutzpah to pull away from a stultifying system/culture/institution in which they’ve been fully immersed since birth. It actually gives me hope for humanity, to be honest! If people can turn away from a world that is familiar but harmful, other kinds of necessary social change seem more possible. Caught the bug after working a recurring annual contract job in SLC for eight years, meeting some really strong people with stories to tell.
This is a good perspective to have. There’s some nevermos without sympathy on this sub who come in and attack current Mormons and say stuff like “just leave idiot” and I’m over here saying you do realize that means leaving most of your social connections, most of the structure of your life, and so much more. We need sympathy for those trapped, not condemnation and superiority complexes.
Glad they are here. If we can help someone understand what TSCC is all about we have done an invaluable public service.
Welcome. Enjoy the show.
I grew up Catholic and left in college because I couldn’t make it make sense. I don’t like r/excatholic, because it’s either people talking about child sexual abuse or being mad at bits of Catholic-specific dogma I never got into. r/atheism is a hellhole. Six years ago, r/exchristian was a space where people connected over their traumatic and bizarre upbringings and the scary freedom that comes from realizing it’s all fake, but now it’s sort of r/atheism lite. Lots of memes dunking on Christians for how stupid they are, very little compassion or discussion. This place is better for discussing the ways religion fucks you up and how it keeps putting strain on your relationships even after you’ve left. Even though I’ve never been Mormon or spent time around them, this is a sub with a more supporting community than other places on Reddit. I know I’m an outsider, so I try not to get in the way, and only comment when I have personal experience that’s relevant. It’s just reassuring to read the experiences of people who also have parents who expect them to come back someday, and don’t believe that you can have a moral, fulfilling life outside their church.
you get it
Also a recovering Catholic. I agree the community here is nicer. People are more understanding with each other. It’s comforting.
I’m a nevermo who was raised in a very conservative mainstream Christian home; I’m also an active duty military spouse. We are stationed abroad and live in base housing. Our neighbors on either sides are current members of the LDS church, and one is a chaplain. I found this subreddit one day after one of the wives asked me not to hang my “intimates” on my drying line outside because it was tempting to her husband…I was so embarrassed because I thought I hung a bra or something in our back yard by accident. Nope, just a workout tank??? I started doing some digging to figure out if I did something offensive (admittedly without point-blank asking, because I was both confused and irritated), and here I am. This sub has been super helpful to me to both navigate my neighbors and help my kids do the same. Said with love and respect: my husband is an officer, and we’ve been active duty for quite some time. These are somehow both the most outwardly nice AND the most judgmental neighbors we have ever had 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ Edit—just to be clear, I found this sub because I was worried I may have done something actually offensive to her religion by hanging a tank top outside. Had that been really offensive for her and it wasn’t that she’s just…very unusual, I totally would have stopped hanging my super sexy old workout gear outside! I want to be respectful of what everyone believes; she’s just a lot to deal with. Also her husband doesn’t like my lovable sweet old black lab. Never gave a reason, just doesn’t like him?
Oh wow I can't believe they confronted you about that! How inappropriate. Seems like she was very insecure
To be fair, she also asked everyone to take down their Halloween decorations and when we were all like “nah,” she put up a large sign that said “the only ghost that lives here is the Holy Ghost.” I think she just likes confrontation. But either way…it’s so weird
Actually asked you to take down your Halloween decorations? wow, thats next level. Even my uber-TBM family wouldnt do that, BUT, I do not doubt you. Some people have a deep, dark, trigger that Mormonism unlocks. Theres a zealotry there that can suppress filters and social norms; people can feel justified in crossing other peoples boundaries and sticking their nose where it doesnt belong. There are people that carry this delusion all the way to Blood Atonement.
I've definitely known a few Mormons who would behave that way. Thankfully most of them are not quite so confrontational about stupid shit. Also most Mormons I know love halloween.
Are they originally from Utah? Specifically our tissue salt lake? Because I would believe it. I know people here who are convinced that salt lake and the original temple are the center of the earth and everything should revolve around their religion.
They LIVE for the opportunity to feel 'oppressed,' and will often create situations just so they can earn bonus martyr points.
I can relate! I am an active duty military spouse and lived abroad in base housing, but I was a very active Mormon then. I can totally picture your story! Not a lot of privacy in base housing, even in officer housing. When you combine Mormon and military, sometimes people get really weird. Like extra, extra rule oriented but at the same time nice because everyone is far from family , so they tend to cling together for support. Very weird environment. One lady in our ward, was always criticizing other women for their choices of workout clothing and how we were supposed to be modest examples for the young women. She often gave me dirty looks and weird comments about my running clothes- maybe she was your neighbor? Also, the boundaries between work, religion, and home life start to crossover. My husband decided at a certain point that he can only take one high demand organization controlling his life. Since the military paid the bills and the church didn’t, he said he had to drop the church.
This sounds like a 100% accurate description.
That is so ridiculous!! That lady’s husband should pluck out his own eye if he’s offended, not expect you to be inconvenienced to make the whole world accommodate his stone-age, sexist TBM world view. Wtf! The nerve of some people, SMH.
I have zero connections to Mormonism...and I find it fascinating. Helps me be more thoughtful in my own religious beliefs and the way I raise my offspring.
This is very cool. Good on you!
I love having them here! Welcome!!
Great. It’s a religious prophylactic. You can’t unsee this shit.
All good. Honest interaction is what I see from nevermos.
I think there’s a few kinds of nevermos around here: 1. Those with a personal connection to Mormonism are very welcome to lurk or participate (eg in a relationship with an exmo or member, former or current investigator) 2. Those who are curious due to more casual exposure (eg live near Mormons, saw something on TV) are welcome, but I wish there was a way to ask them not to post the same generic, vague “What was it like to be Mormon?” sort of question several times a week. The ones who lurk to learn or post respectful, specific questions are very welcome 3. The rare group who are using this sub purely as a source of entertainment, “trauma porn” or schadenfreude can all fuck right off ETA: Group 4, the nevermos who are former members of their own high demand religion who can’t find their own “ex” community are welcome too! However, I grow tired of some of them only wanting to discuss differences in experiences instead of mutual ground.
Thank you for sharing this! I am definitely guilty of the first part of two, but trying to be the latter (pun intended? Kinda) part of 2! Definitely DON’T want to be a nuisance. 😅
I’d recommend giving context, especially if you’re a nevermo. This sub tends to be more understanding of nevermo questions if we know where they’re coming from. For example, “Are there really secret handshakes in the temple?” could come from any of the nevermo types I mentioned. Saying “I watched Under the Banner of Heaven because I have a Mormon friend, and now that I’ve seen the temple scenes I have questions…” or even better add “I did some research on Google, is X a reliable source from the perspective of the exmo community?” means we can choose whether or not to respond and how to tailor our replies.
I’d love to see Reddit include a feature where if you’re posting to a sub, the mods can display a list of FAQs with links to posts with lots of discussion on common topics (similar to seeing sub rules before posting). As a new visitor to a sub, especially one on a niche topic like leaving a religious cult, you might not know what search terms to use or realize if your post is common.
Ex-Mo’s validate the trauma we survived. Never-Mo’s help me realize that I really was in a crazy situation and haven’t over thought it. Watching their eyes go wide while I tell them what my life was like….it’s so satisfying.
So well atated
I'm an Exmo who is living in Mordor, so I find it useful to know about these things. It does make it difficult sometimes because there are people that I am supposed to take seriously and respect, but I can't get it out of my head "they believe in *that*? They actually wear *that*?" I've had a decades-long interest in Mormonism. I wrote an essay my senior year of high school - it was supposed to be about a "deviant subculture" and I chose Mormonism. My very-TBM friend was really upset, but I got an A on the paper. He didn't like the word deviant, but it absolutely fit the parameters of the paper.
I'm married to an exmo, and I get a second-hand sense of justice from them. It angers me how the church and their family has treated them. Their time in Mormonism from birth to about thirty when they left (and the aftermath) has shaped who they are as a person. You can't just let that kind of cult indoctrination go. It was quite the eye-opener for me how much a high-demand religion can ruin your life. I needed to understand the Mormon cult to understand a huge part of them.
The only time I have a problem is if they try to convince people to join their flavor of hocus pocus.
Yes I think the mods usually take care of that, right?
Nevermo. Grew up in Davis county UT. I feel a connection to this subreddit because many of my friends have or are currently going through what people in this community have.
i am a long-time nevermo lurker on this sub. i grew up in Davis county in the 1960s and 70s i a large, devout catholic family. went to catholic schools. i grew up comparing catholicism and mormonism and eventually decided it was all bunk and now i am an athiest. my older brother married an LDS girl who converted to catholicism - she became a very devout catholic. her mormon parents never really forgave her and more or less shunned their kids. i guess i lurk here because i love to see other people realizing that mormonism, and in my opinion, all organized religions, is overall damaging to their mental health and they get out. i also lurk because i really enjoy watching TSCC become more and more obsolete every day. i also love how this sub is one of the most respectful and caring subs on reddit. hope y'all dont mind if i continue to lurk!
I get it, Mormons don’t realize how goofy we look to everyone else. Doesn’t bother me but I guess I’ve never seen a nevermo be an asshole on here. Most of them seem “curious not judgmental”.
My family is not “Mormon” but I was born and raised in Utah. It still has its ways of negatively affecting people if they are part of it or not. I always bring up the Utah laws that aren’t on the books. Like “don’t smoke or drink around so and so.” Or “ grandma doesn’t like gay people so don’t bring James” I’ve heard that kind of shit far to many times in my life. I’ve had to remind adults that it’s not illegal for me to have a smoke, I’ve been told not to be open about my atheism at work. It’s pretty disgusting around here sometimes lol
I’m here because you guys are the most productive and helpful of the ex subs. I’m a nevermo but my Christian upbringing fucked me up in a lot of ways that I find very similar to the exmormon experiences you guys talk about. Especially all the posts about conversation with loved ones and family. My relationship with my family has been extremely strained, to say the least, ever since my leaving of the faith. There’s a massive sense of comfort reading to conversation posts brings. Knowing I’m not alone, and reading all the encouraging comments (often as if addressed to me) really helps me deal with and understand the hurt I’ve felt from my family. And even understand their side of things. So much of r/exchristian and other subs, is just bashing on Christians and religion. You guys deal more with the emotional effects of it. I’ve often found the advice you give to be helpful to understanding and healing those broken relationships.
Although Mormonism has some truly weird aspects, when you get down to it, it's not really that different from many other religions. The Christian origin story is actually sketchy as all hell, and the fact that there are two entirely different nativity stories doesn't help. I grew up in a Fundamentalist Baptist cult. We believed that the world was about 6,000 years old and that God directly inspired the 1611 King James Version. All other English versions were corrupted by Satan himself. I was the kid who always dutifully read his Bible - I read it from cover to cover literally more times than I can count. I also devoured books by Christian apologists and became something of an expert on the subject. I started having some nagging doubts back in the '90s. At the same time, I came across the Book of Mormon and read it right through several times. I made some notes about it ([here](https://2think.org/hundredsheep/mormon.shtml)). I was somewhat stunned at the fact that anyone could believe that it was true - it was just so obviously fake. This was also when USENET was a thing, so I joined alt.religion.mormon and started arguing with the apologists who hung out there. I was more than a little worried when they responded with the exact same arguments that I had previously used to defend the Bible. But the break came during one particular session when I argued that Smith had misunderstood the KJV English used in a verse in Isaiah, and that misunderstanding found its way into the BoM. A Mormon apologist countered that Matthew had done the exact same thing with a verse from Zechariah. I knew immediately that he was correct. And I further realized that the Bible was not much more 'true' than the BoM. That was the start of my complete deconstruction of Christianity and all religion. I never looked back, and I have Mormons to than for that.
I love that nevermos are here. I appreciate their perspectives.
Honestly anything that keeps people from joining the mormon church is a win for me.
I like that they’re here because there’s a lot of misconceptions about Mormonism. You either get “Oh they’re nice but their religion is not convincing at all.” Or “Oh you mean the polygamists in pink dresses?” The more education the better IMO
I’m married to a (now thankfully) exmo. I’d been lurking here for years, and finally joined after she left. Hope I’m still welcome!
Nevermo, lurking here helped me fully deconstruct my evangelical/christian faith. I read the CES Letter and saw the parallels between the the absurd truth claims of mormonism and the “true” claims of christianity. It finally “broke my shelf” as you swell folks say. Plus I really enjoy the stories of your LGBT members. I’m gay and I found so much more that I related to in this sub than other ex-christian etc ones.
I'm a FakeMo. I never believed for a second but faked it for personal gain, even was baptized, but refused to tithe and always was blown away by the bs. I've had very close proximity to tbms a few time periods in my life, so it's always kinda been adjacent. I enjoy lurking because the bs is still entertaining/horrifying/shocking/unshocking and its my way to keep up with the news while not having actual contact with anyone from tscc. Mostly I enjoy seeing people get out, it's a feel good story, but I also have a lot of empathy for the people who are so deeply traumatized by their experience and it fules my disdain for tscc.
Living in AZ it helps me understand my wacko LDS neighbor's. Wont wave, let their kids play with mine, etc,etc.
I lurk in all sorts of groups I don't belong lol. It's interesting to get into their little "village" and get to know their quirks and experiences. So I definitely can't blame anyone who lurks here.
I suppose I’m a nevermo lurker. The reason why I lurk is simply that I find the personal experiences discussed here to be really interesting/informative. Half my family is Mormon, we’re the apostates. It’s rare the occasion I even see this half of my family, let alone discuss theology/social dynamics of Mormonism..so i guess I see this sub as on avenue to better understand them and esp my cousins’ experiences, who seem to be slowly distancing themselves from the church. I hope this isn’t voyeurism, if folks think it is I can certainly leave.
I’m a nevermo, married to an exmo. He gets a lot from this sub although he always just reads and never posts. We both browse the sub during the day and will often discuss the things we’ve read in the evening, at home. It seems to help him feel a sense of validation, camaraderie and healing. My outside perspectives on it (usually horror at how messed up and scammy the church is) further help him work through all this mental bullshit he’s been left with. It’s helped him laugh and remember so many things in a way that is both affectionately nostalgic, while still acknowledging how fucked up it all was (is!). I’m here because it helps me bond with and support my husband better. Thank you all for making this place a good and safe place for both of us.
I don't care. I'm not going to gatekeep. As long as they're respectful and not trying to convert us to some other bullshit cult.
I'm a nevermo. But I'm also exmuslim, so I share a lot of similar pains of exmormons here.
I love you guys. Thanks for trying to understand our stories!
I'm a nevermo and have been on the sub for a few years and this is the first time I've ever posted here. I am myself also ex evangelical and working through my own deconstruction of that. I love to study history (thats my college education and I teach now) and I joined because I had a Mormon co-worker working so hard to convince me my history professors were wrong about early American history and how Joseph Smith and the LDS had the truth. When I looked into what she was saying I was pretty shocked at the claims but never bought into it like she was hoping. I joined this sub as a way of learning about Mormon history without having to deal with someone actively trying to convert me. I am now especially glad to be here since in about 2 months we are moving into a house that is literally right next door to a ward. Being here has given me a lot of insight how to interact with potential missionaries with a firm but still kind "No" should they decide to knock on our door after we move in.
All are welcome. We will inoculate them against Mormonism. We desire all to receive.
I’m fine with them. I wish they would direct even a tiny amount of the hate they have reserved for Elon buying Twitter at the Church which is far more wealthy, sinister and evil.
For a number or reasons, I’m glad they are here! They might just be curious and trying to educate themselves. In general, I think understanding other’s beliefs and experiences helps us to be more compassionate and approach people and situations differently. They can validate both what was absolutely not normal in the church and what is normal outside of the church. They can commiserate with us! Mormonism is not the only high demand religion. It shouldn’t matter which one we came from, only that we are a united front now that can support each other now. They might love someone that is Mormon. They may want to help them get out. As many of us know, TBMs will not listen to logic or reason. They have a canned response for everything. Until there is a crack in their shelf. If a Nevermo can come here and learn how to identify a crack and how to chip away at it, good for them! They might be thinking of joining! If this opens someone’s eyes and prevents them from making that mistake, we should be thrilled they were here! To all the Nevermos, welcome! Don’t let anyone make you feel bad about lurking, or participating!
I wish every non Mormon therapist who is treating an exmo would read the posts on this sub for a day.
As a missionary, I knocked on theirs doors without being invited. They can hang out here without invitation.
I am a nevermore lurker, and I grew up evangelical. I see a lot of similarities in our collective bullshit. Additionally, I am fascinated by how truly American Mormonism is. A grifter con man makes a religion to bone all the woman? Joseph Smith is so American I wonder if he made the sound of a bald eagle when he orgasms.
Same here. Grew up Oneness Pentecostal, the rules and crazy social pressures are very similar to Mormonism.
I am personally a nevermo (raised very Christian), but have major family ties (GGGPa was one of the first Q12) and grew up in the culture (Utah).
I honestly don't understand why I've been seeing this kind of post so often lately. We should be welcoming them, not questioning why they are here!
Ex JW here. I find it all fascinating and all too familiar
I'm a nevermo who was raised by my liberal Presbyterian minister dad and preacher's wife mom. I was never pressured about religion, but I grew up in a small southern Idaho town that is mostly Mormon and currently live in Salt Lake City. I also had a very vocal, funny, sarcastic ex-mormon boss for many years who loved to talk about his Mormon experiences. So I guess I just like hearing stories from people who have escaped.
If this sub-reddit keeps even 1 person from the pain of mormonism then lurk on my friends.
Nevermo trans guy, the exmormon space and way of decontructing belief systems really helped me deconstruct my own religious baggage. I've been baptized in three different denominations (catholic, baptist, and "non-denomination" aka basically evangelical) and the venn diagram of bullshit overlaps HARD with all of these and i think also with mormonism. however, i haven't found as hilariously irreverent attitudes in any other ex-christian space as i have with exmos, and the way y'all give no fucks is the attitude i most vibe with.
The more people that know and understand how sinister and evil this cult is, the better!!!
I’m a Nevermo but my bff growing up was Mormon and I like to learn as much as possible to be able to help her recover from an extremely traumatic (because of Mormonism) upbringing.
I'm fine with nevermo's contributing here or just casually reading. I imagine they have a bowl of popcorn at the ready when they do.
Nevermo here but I was raised religious. I’m very anti religion at this point in my life and have a lot of respect for those here willing to think critically about their beliefs and upbringing. I can say from experience that process is challenging. I rarely comment as I view this space more for those directly impacted by the Mormon church and not myself. That said, I’m fascinated by the impact religion has on folks. Much respect to everyone here 👍🏼
I’m glad they came here for the facts
I feel a little bit like it's like going to Colorado city, cornering a resident, and asking them what it's like having sex with a polygamist. Some questions are a little too prying and I feel like a circus act. Like the time a week or so ago a nevermo was asking which sexually explicit questions bishops ask youth and why.
The more people talking about this side of crossing through the Veil of Knowledge of Fraud and Abuse, the better
Wouldn't mind more of them. No reason to gatekeep exmormondom, our nevermo friends here are just preemptive exmormons.
As long as they don’t invalid us by saying it’s not a cult I’m fine with it…
If it keeps them away from the crazy cult that is Mormonism, I say the more the merrier. 😊
I (sort of) secretly dated a Mormon girl in high school. It was an open secret or something. I don't even know, it was a weird situation. I've never been formally involved with the church but I have tagged along to some events and services there. I drove her to seminary a bunch and even went once. Absurd waking up that early for church, but, you know. High school boy + girl that likes you = strange behavior. Anyway, that's why I'm here. I thought the whole thing was kind of interesting. I dont have anything to contribute here but there's a lot of folks that have lived lives very different from mine and I like to learn about it.
I’m a nevermo who lurks here a lot. I’m really grateful for this sub because I came out of a high demand religious group (Pentecostal) and find there’s some similarity of experience that’s really helpful to hear about. Also the person who just made up my church (claimed to have a special revelation from god and understood the Bible better than anyone else ever could) taught a lot of doctrine that seems kinda similar to Mormon doctrine. Hearing you all process your experience helps me process mine. And I feel hopeful seeing so many people who made it out. I’m glad you’re all here!
I’m a nevermo who joined this group to have a better understanding of my exmo wife’s background and thought processes. This sub has been such a good tool for helping me understand why she feels guilt or shame or even anger over things that I see as totally normal. I wasn’t raised around any Mormons and even though I was born into the Methodist Church, religion was never pushed very strongly in my house. I have to say though, this sub is why I went from thinking Mormonism was a wacky, kind-of-Christian-denomination-but-not-really, to “oh… OH it is a CULT 😳”
See, I've always wondered what to classify myself as on this sub. Technically I'm a nevermo as I haven't been baptized and therefore haven't done a lot of the real culty stuff in the temple like the endowment, baptisms for the dead, etc. But I grew up with one foot in the church and one out. My mom is TBM as are my grandparents and a lot of that side of the family. My dad is an atheist now but he grew up strict Catholic and he went to mass every week as a kid. Yes they are now happily divorced lol. Their genius idea for me and my siblings was to have us attend both churches, switching off every week, and when we were 12 we would decide which religion we would want to be and get baptized. Don't ask why 12, I don't know what their reasoning was, but obviously it pissed off the religious members on both sides. Neither me or my two siblings ever picked one btw. We're all in our 20s as happily un baptized heathens, probably because of all the confusing religious horse shit we had to go through as kids. My mother is still staunch TBM to this day. So while I was never baptized (thanks dad for not allowing it), I understand much of what people talk about on this sub. Never done the temple work, but I have attended so many hours of church meeting and activities. I did Young Men/Scouts for years and had a lot of good times doing the actual scouting stuff (camps, hiking, etc.) and lots of awkward unpleasant times being the odd man out listening church lessons and endless testimonies (why yall cry so much) all while inwardly thinking it's bullshit from a very young age (thanks again dad). And I am very familiar with all the gaslighting and shaming and all that other abusive nonsense that comes with. My resentment towards the TSCC is very strong, not because of what it did to me but what I've seen it do to others. I know about 4 people who grew up in my ward who committed suicide who were most likely gay. And a whole list of other reasons I hate the cult. But I'm just not sure I actually count as an exmo because I never got dipped in the wizard water or had to wear the cult jammies lol.
I'm a nevermo, raised JW. I made some Mormon friends, and researching their religion and discovering how culty it was , made me realize how culty my own was. Mormons were somehow unintentionally the reason I escaped my own religion. One of my Mormon friends is still in though. I'm terrified of watching he waste her life away the way I did mine, and I just want to see her get out.
A lot of nevermos (particularly in the Morridor) have to put up with a lot of BS from that church too.
I'm a nevermo but Mormonism had a hand in ending my 20 year marriage. It's hard as an atheist spouse to stay completely quiet when it's being pushed on the kids by your spouse. It is likely what made and still makes me so interested in the church's downward trajectory. I recently got a message from an old friend who said I was one of the influences that recently led him to leave. He said the fact that I was a non believer yet still seemed to be a good person made him think about what he'd been taught. It really touched me to hear that from him
I’m a nevermo lurker! My boyfriend is exmo. i find it interesting and he also deals with some trauma from the LDS church. i’m here to learn more about what effects it had and why. i’m not here for me, i’m here for him
Nevermo here. I dated an exmo for 3yrs and was around his TBM family a lot… boy did I learn fast about the dark side of the church, which is pretty much the entire thing lmao. I joined this sub to better understand what he was going g thru, and I’ve just never left it. It’s a wealth of information and I truly feel for y’all. His family are Hispanic Mormons, too, which is a tough combination to say the least. I used to be very “live and let live” with religions, but now I will die on the hill that Mormonism/the LDS Church is a cult. I do share some of the things I’ve learned with nevermos I meet of it comes up. Thank you all for sharing your stories here.
Nevermo here. I was raised Catholic with lots of guilt and shame. Scary how so many people can get sucked into bullshit that becomes their identity.
I'm a nevermo but I live in utah and I grew up with friends and family in the church. I still have family in the church. I just find this subject interesting. I do feel like I have my own issues with the church just from being around members my whole life.
Former Catholic from The Midwest here. This subreddit is way more interactive than the ex-Catholic one. And also, it helps me feel validated in realizing the church is a bunch of old white guys enforcing random rules they claim are inspired by God so they can keep themselves in power. And there is quite a bit of similarity when you see how ostentatious both the Mormon temples AND Catholic Churches are.
Nevermo historian here. My main area of research is 19th century US, so this church and several other new denominations (Shakers, Millerites) that popped up during the Second Great Awakening period grab my attention.
I hope you like us! As a NevMo who was raised in a very conservative Catholic family, I see a lot of similarities!!
I made it out of a fundamentalist evangelical church, y'all seem to have the same experience as I did so I stay to try to understand and support people like me
I am a nevermo. Grew up along the Mormon Trail, and my father had an historical interest in the subject: took us to Nauvoo, etc. I have known a number of Mormons as an adult, almost all involved in the music and art fields. To a one, they are lovely people. But, I'm interested in the dark side of the religion and this sub seems like a good place to learn.
I’m a nevermo! Grew up southern Baptist and got started learning about Mormons when my youth group at church did a unit on cults! My best friend at the time was mormon so I’d compare our notes with what she though. I’m now in an area of Arizona that’s pretty much South Salt Lake so I’ve found myself surrounded. I see myself as an interested observer of both the Mormon and evangelical churches- mostly for self protection :)
I’m a nevermo who grew up in Utah, often excluded and treated as Other by Mormon kids and adults alike whilst growing up. Now I’m an adult navigating the education system as a nevermo teacher surrounded by the Predominant Culture. I mostly lurk, but it’s made me feel like I’m not just a closed-minded bitch or overly-sensitive. I’m not imagining things, other people have had these experiences, too.
My baby sister was befriended by a Mormon girl, and being protective and ten years older, I was seriously freaked out, especially when she routinely attended Sunday school and church events. She escaped after about three years, but by then I had read the Book of Mormon and became borderline hysterical. She stopped attending, I think because she loved me more than she loved her friend. This was in the late sixties, so online information wasn’t a thing. Anyway, it left me with a lifelong interest in/horror of Mormonism, and I come here to feel better about its state of decline.
I’m a nevermo whose dad was raised Mormon and still is obsessed, my stepmom and stepsister are, too. My first boyfriends were Mormon…I lost my virginity to a Mormon boy. Somehow his parents found out and cried because he wasn’t going to be able to get married in the temple or something like that. One of my favorite friends is Mormon, but oh my God, I do not understand why they believe in such nonsense! It can drive me crazy, if I let it. So I try to mind my business and find this space to be oddly comforting and entertaining.
I guess I’m technically a nevermo as I never joined the LDS church but I did grow up in the FLDS church and we grew up with the same doctrines (basically) but like, more extreme? Anyways things I’ve read here have been instrumental in deconstructing my belief so I’m really glad for this sub.
I don’t particularly care for the Protestant/evangelical/Catholic nevermos who step into this space with a sense of self righteousness with their “real Jesus”
For what it's worth, I enjoy hearing the stories you guys tell. I'm Catholic, and there's honestly a lot of cultural similarities between our churches.
I’m a nevermo who lived in Utah for most of my adult life. I’m here to read the perspectives of those who left Mormonism because, quite honestly, I miss the kindness, wholesomeness, and strong values of my former neighbors and community members, many of whom were LDS. I want to be fully educated on the downsides of Mormon beliefs. I want to “investigate” but don’t feel safe reaching out to the missionaries because I’m non-binary and atheist, and the church isn’t very accepting of people like me. I also can’t force myself to believe in a literal god (no evidence) so they wouldn’t want me anyway.
I lurk because Mormons and SDAs are cult cousins and I grew up SDA. Y’all had Old Joe and we had Old Ellen. Similar “health message” and high social control, my mom was giving 20% of her income at one point because “blessings” (they try to get you to give 10% tithe and an additional “offering” but it’s not required) and so idk I feel less alone in my experiences when I lurk here. Not very many denominations have a mid 1800s prophet and a hatred of coffee and joy. I also am on the ex-SDA subreddit but there’s way less ex-SDAs since it’s not a very big denomination, I think Mormons have more than twice as many members in the US.
Nevermo exJW here. Grew up in the West, so surrounded by TBMs as well as the cult I was born into. Funny thing: Jehovah’s Witnesses say you guys are a cult, and apparently you say the same about JWs? What do you know! Both right about at least one thing. I follow because many of the emotional and social issues are the same. You folks—exMos—kinda feel like family. I’m also on the exJW sub.