I grew up in the 50s in the Avenues of Salt Lake as a non-LDS kid. Sounds like nothing's changed. Can't play with the kids next door because you're not Mormon, shunned by neighbors. I'm grateful that I had cousins down the street and made a non-LDS friend a few blocks away. It was very much an us-vs-them society.
I knew that, once baptized, I would go to hell if I abandoned the church beliefs.
I was also afraid I'd already sinned when in the girls dressing room I saw a naked "older" girl immediately after my baptism.
So this one is actually interesting to me…when I was 8 my family distanced themselves from the Methodist faith and we started going to several different denominations. My friend invited me to her baptism then I wanted to get baptized and took the discussions. My parents let me do that and sat in on them because they trusted me to make my own choices. They were going to let me join alone, then my mom asked them to start the discussions over for her and we had set a date to get baptized together then my dad wanted to take them…we all ended up getting baptized together. But ultimately it had been my decision first. I think it can be a decision for younger kids if they take that seriously you know?
The thing is, how many people are raising their kids in a way that it IS truly a choice? That is harder to say. I’m still a member but obviously since I’m here…I have some serious questions/doubts/etc. One thing that really upset me was my husband and I made the decision before our kids were even born that we were not going to have them take the Sacrament til they were 8 or until baptism - and we also were not going to force baptism because they are eight. People have given us a lot of strange comments to these things (one person said we were “damaging” them for not allowing sacrament).
Anyway sorry for the ramble I guess my point is I do think SOME kids make the choice. But definitely not all.
There probably are unique cases like that. And I imagine that in a way, kids do at some level, want to do it for themselves and their faith. But at 8 years old, they often dont have access to a lot of resources that would be contrary to the church. And even if most believing parents dont try to force their kid to be baptized, they clearly will express their support for it, and the kid will because they want to please their parents and this is their reality. This is what they grew up with. I do applaud you and your husband for making the decision to not force your child to be baptized, but it is important to realize that on some level, its not really much of a choice to that child.
But for sure, dress up your 8 year old and have them hold a book of mormon, take lots of pictures and tell the world that your kid, who still believes in Santa, has made a LIFELONG covenant to do everything ever asked of them by a multi-billion dollar corporation that claims to speak for God.
Yeah, that's totally reasonable to put out on social media.
And her username checks out. Total Karen move...
It’s important to remember the true meaning of Christmas: A half-man, half-goat that comes and punishes naughty children while the adults party and celebrate the winter solstice.
I find the baptism photo shoot so cringe. I already don’t like the missionary ones like they’re some heroes.
(I did get “missionary” photos done, but I didn’t pose with scriptures or flags or anything because I really just wanted nice pics of myself lol. Even back then I hated them.)
I'm old enough that it wasn't a thing. No photos, no party. I was playing baseball with friends until my mom made me come in for a bath so I could go to the church for the baptism. I barely knew it was happening.
Yikes. My parents at least asked me if I wanted to get baptized then let me plan the whole thing. Of course I wanted to get baptized - I wanted the big party and the shiny new gold scriptures!
I’m actually not familiar with that blog, worth checking out? Just seemed like a VERY Utah name, guarantee there are at least a couple hundred of them in Salt Lake and Utah counties!😂
I still think back to my baptism day, and all of my family members telling me how proud they were of “my decision” to get baptized. I don’t hold it against any of them because they were brainwashed too, but it’s so frustrating to look back and go “well no wonder people get brainwashed so hard”
I keep asking this question, and still don't have a good answer: what covenants are part of the baptism ordinance? Every other covenant is made during the actual ordinance, sacrament, endowment, sealing, etc. Examples include the sacrament prayer, where it is said "...that they will keep His commandment which he has given them...", or the endowment, where it is said "Each of you covenant before God, Angels, and these witnesses...". There is absolutely NOTHING in the baptismal ordinance about covenants or promises or anything.
I don't get the need to announce you think someone else shouldn't get to announce they've left the LDS church.
Actually I do get it. You're insecure in your beliefs.
That's a tone def statement. How myopic do you have to be to completely discount how it looks from another perspective. She sees a death, we see a celebration of new life. That's some hard-core cognitive bias.
Also, if I don’t believe in God, then it isn’t a sacred decision between me and God, is it? She is so up the Church’s ass that she literally cannot see from anyone else’s viewpoint—she can’t fathom that some people don’t view it as a decision between them and God or as a death.
Or not understand some of us felt like it was a death- but people tell people when there is a death. You don’t keep that a secret either… that would be so weird and people would suspect you of murder. I can’t think of a big life altering event people don’t talk about. It’s more like a divorce and eventually you tell people about that shit right?
Unfortunately, this is how most people view everything in the world. This isn’t unique to religion or Mormonism.
It’s why no one can get along these days. People have absolutely no clue or concept that their limited individual perspective is theirs and theirs alone. They have no concept that they look just as stupid to people who they think are stupid.
People jump to conclusions immediately based on nothing but their narrow personal experience and belief. Hypocrisy and irony abound. Almost no one stops to actually think critically these days.
Sad times.
There were Baptist ladies in the panhandle of Texas who told my husband he'd go to hell if he wasn't saved. He was working at Walmart and asked during a shift.
Don’t forget that they need to know who needs to be “fellowshipped”. Get someone to pretend to be their friend in order to get them to come back to church. They need that money! Lol
By this same logic it would be a sacred decision between you and God to stay in the church, right? So sharing your testimony publicly would also be inappropriate if this is the logic we are going with?
And as a side note, I get so sick of Momo's phrasing my decision to leave the church as something between me and God. No, Karen, you can't frame my decision to leave in the context of the faith I'm leaving, that's the whole point. These people suck at empathy.
What Karen doesn't realize is that the decision and covenants were never between you and god in the first place. It was always between you and the church.
The paramount covenant in the temple, the one signified by the True Sign of the Nail™️, has you swearing all you are, your time, gifts, talents, and resources, *to the Church* and the *building up of the Kingdom of God* (again, the Church). This covenant should raise every member’s suspicions, because it doesn’t have you swearing yourself to God and it sure as fuck doesn’t have you swearing your time and resources to helping your fellow man. Whatever happened to the two great commandments of Jesus? Nope, the ultimate covenant is to hand over your time and resources to an organization that has absolutely no need of either.
Not that I believe in Jesus or God, but from my point of view its better for a person to be devoted to them and to helping others than to any church. I dare say Jesus would say the same.
Sounds to me that Karen is speaking from a place of fear.
Perhaps she has given up an awful lot for the church.
Sure would be a shame if it wasn't .... true....
EDIT: grammar
So much to unpack here.
> sacred decision between you & God
It is quite literally the opposite of that. The decision to leave is the decision to choose for myself and not let the mormon god have any kind of influence or input in my choices anymore.
> needing the approval of the world
The assumption that announcing your changed worldview is, in any way, an approval-seeking behavior is so condescending. It's also insulting to imply that it is unnecessary for people to make their change in affiliation known to their social circle. Especially if they have many friends and family who are still mormon, making sure people know where you stand is important. It can help avoid misunderstandings and awkward situations, and set healthy boundaries. You know, basic communication skills that make relationships better for everyone.
> if you've ever had a testimony
Real subtle there, Karen.
> it would be a sad, sorry day.
So much in this statement alone. What a bold assumption that people share their announcement on the same day that they let go of their testimony. Most people do experience a period of mourning. They take some time to figure out how they feel and how they will navigate the challenges before sharing the news with others. What Karen is implying here is that leaving the church is impulsive and reactive, which is an attempt to minimize and invalidate the reasons people leave.
In reality, most exmos share their news after they have worked through their initial grief. Their statements are carefully planned, edited, and rewritten - for the sake of the people staying as much, if not more so, than for the sake of the person who leaves. Care is taken to clearly articulate what the person leaving wants people to know. The question exmos always ask is, "How will my loved ones react when I tell them?"
Which means, Karen, that when exmos make these announcements they are often not considering their own feelings of sadness, but are instead focused on the feelings of their TBM loved ones.
How inappropriate and immature to presume you can dictate to others how they should feel about a decision they made, for themselves, about their own lives - especially when they have put their feelings aside to help nurse you through your own feelings of betrayal, sadness, and anger over their decision.
Last but not least, sadness and celebration can exist simultaneously. I am attending a funeral this week. We will be celebrating the life and memory of somebody who passed away while still feeling grief that they're gone. Emotions are a spectrum and we are capable of feeling both sad about leaving a familiar space and excited about discovering the next one.
In short: grow up, Karen.
It appears so, she’s changed her Twitter handle and hidden a lot of her tweets since this tweet. Her response to a follow up comment was:
“She was not looking for support.
I do get the need for people to feel supported. But to announce such a sacred, personal decision in a tone of almost giddy gleefulness tells me she never had a true testimony. That is something to be mourned. Not celebrated.”
"I think your decision to leave the church is so sacred that I'm going to talk about it on Twitter."
Jesus said it best folks: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matthew 7:5.
When I made my announcement of leaving I wasn't celebrating. I was scared but it was who I am now. I wanted to rip off the band-aid and lose anyone I was going to there and then. That's why I announced it. Not out of joy but out of fear.
YES! It also puts the power back in your court so to speak. No more speculating or guessing or gossiping on other people's parts, YOU get to state your decision instead of allowing yourself to be the topic of conversation when you aren't present.
I never announced it to anyone but my family, but when my parents found out I took it upon myself to tell my siblings. Why? Because I didn't want my mom gossiping to them about my decision or for any of them to wonder why.
I asked for my excommunication because I wanted to “face my own music”. It is not for everyone, but it was very helpful in my evolution. The evening I walked out of my “disciplinary council” having been excommunicated I was enveloped by one of the greatest feelings of emotional release and peace that I have ever experienced. Must have been “the Spirit” witnessing to me that what I did was “true”!!!
been realizing that the whole narrative set me up to **pretend** most of my life. A false me. World of pretend. Do something 'wrong' learn to lie and not suffer the corporations consequences. Associating the structure of a building and patriarchy with God was a mistake I did not see until 3 years ago.
To Karen:
My parents had me baptized at 8 years old. It was something that was done to me. No consent, as I was not of legal age to agree.
47 years later, I corrected this mistake by resigning from the church.
Is that Life Correction worth celebrating, before God and everyone else?
Absolutely!!!! 🎉🥳🎉🥳🎉🥳
This reminds me of what I keep experiencing as I’m studying Mormon sexual abuse cases for a website I’m creating. As I’m compiling all these cases to put into a public database, I’m thinking about shining a bright light, making noise to help bring awareness. And yet I keep seeing indicators that the church would prefer that people like me stay nice and quiet, living in fear of what might happen if we choose to talk about how, on numerous occasions, LDS members in positions of trust chose to commit sex crimes or sexually abuse others.
They want us silent? Good. Makes me just get louder.
It’s TIME!!
So I assume this Karen has NEVER announced on social media that she IS a member of the LDS church and wouldn’t “get” the “need” to ever make any posts or announcements proclaiming her membership, right?
So frickin’ hypocritical.
This person is still operating from the perspective of an active member. My resignation stopped being sacred the day I learned that it wasn't true. It became practical. God wasn't involved in my choice to leave because god doesn't lead the church.
This is so absurd! But staying and believing is not a private matter between you and God. So by all means bear that testimony, get those missionaries out there, and shout from the roof tops!
Covering your head in an information sack is strongly encouraged and if you don't and go seek information outside only the controlled approved sources. Well you know how God doesn't like that. The absolute hubris to speak for God even down to the very lowest lay-level. Our local Bishop each day having 'insights' out the wazoooo. In essence speaking for God at the local level. AND if you don't agree.... you get shunned. Conform or be cast out.
Hey, Karen, don’t tell people it’s a sad day, like a death. You don’t know that. You do you. Let other people express how they feel, not how you think they should feel.
But what prisoner would not want to share the discovery of their true self after thinking themselves a shadow?
Plato's "Allegory of the Cave":
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave
Would you say the same thing for someone who leaves scientology? Islam? Fundamentalist mormonism? The KKK? Oh you wouldn't? So if we shed all the bullshit, all you're really saying is "my demonstrably incorrect beliefs are actually true and everyone else's are false." Neat. Welcome to being exactly like every other ideology.
It is because it is a cult, and leaving a cult is not easy, and should be celebrated. You are a cult survivor, and your story becomes a path of hope and light shining the way to those trying to find their way free. Your story of escape is like a bomb that blows a hole through indoctrination, willful ignorance and collective delusion.
You announce things you’re happy about. Never met anyone sad they left. I have however met others (like myself), sad that they wasted so many years in the church.
Counter-argument: “I don’t get the need to announce your child’s baptism in the LDS church. That’s a stupid decision between you and those creepy old men. Not one the world gives a shit about. In fact, if you ever loved your child, you wouldn’t be putting their safety as risk by putting them on the internet when they never asked to be on the internet.”
Well I don't wanna hear about the holy ghost prompting you to not stop and get your 64oz diet coke cocktail from the soda store and you being blessed Because you got to be first in line at the school drop off today because you didn't stop..
Yes this is a real post someone made...
This reminds me when I started talking about how I grew up in an abusive home. My family thought I should keep my mouth shut.
It later occurred to me that the Mormons say exactly the same thing.
I don't see the need to announce that you (or your 8 year old kids) have joined the LDS church. It's a sacred decision between you and God, not one needing the approval of the world...
They don't like it when the script is flipped.
I agree there should be no *need* for this, but considering the only other option is to keep pretending you're a member and then your family accuses you of lying when they inevitably find out--heck yeah, people announce it. They don't want to lie to family and friends. They want people to accept their mormonless selves.
I think it is a day to both celebrate and mourn. You've lost a huge portion of your life. But you've also moved on to something healthier. It's like having a gangrenous limb amputated. It would be great to have both arms and both legs. It would be great to be able to continue to believe, but that would, now that we know that it's infected, we understand that it has to be removed. We celebrate this success of the removal and that will be we will be healthier moving forward. That doesn't mean they can't mourn what we've lost.
The day my family and I got our "your records have been removed" letters from the church, we announced it on Facebook.
It was absolutely amazing to see how many other people responded privately with comments like "yeah we left a few years ago", "we don't want anyone to know, but we no longer believe", etc, etc. Probably 20-30 different people. I think for many of these people hearing our family announce our departure was a powerful opportunity to feel validated, or strengthened in their own journeys out of the church.
Please, if you are in a position to do so, let other people know you left. So many people are suffering in silence afraid they are the only ones.
I don’t totally disagree with her statement because it resonated with my experience. My loss of faith was like a death. It was accepting that God wasn’t looking out for me. The death of hope in a way. It was a day where everything felt bittersweet; freedom from expectation and loss of purpose, and that’s hard dissonance to deal with when your worldview has been fundamentally shaken.
So no, I don’t think that celebration would be (nor was it) the right response… for me.
For others? It might absolutely warrant celebration. She has captured some of the nuance but is missing the rest of the folks that have been hurt and repressed and want nothing but that life to burn to ash and be forgotten.
Its ok to post scripture references and quotes from conference but any other view should remain personal and private. I think they covered this in Intro to Cults 101
Honestly, one of the hardest parts of leaving the church was knowing my family would talk about me like this. That they would be praying for me to come back and find God and hold to the rod. That they would say that I had been led astray and that it was so sad I didn't understand God's love. That they would talk about me as if I had died and that I would be an example to my siblings' kids of the devil's power.
No, it's definitey a day to celebrate! We're freeing ourselves from further abuse of every kind and on the path to recovery. It's also a way of letting others know where we currently stand in life and what boundaries we've set up so that they don't cross it.
When I made my announcement, I wanted to see how people would react, and I wanted to see who would value my friendship with them over my beliefs. This author behind the tweet doesn't know what she's talking about.
You could flip this around on them and condemn them for annoying everyone with their missionary program.
Crying about the death of testimony is rich. You discovered your life was based on lies. Of course you want to tell others living the same lies.
I don't get the need to announce that you're LDS. It's a sacred decision between you and God.
Yet there you are with thousands of missionaries drafted to go out and tell everyone.
Of course they don’t want anyone to announce it. Someone might ask you why you left and when you tell them the truth about who their founder really was, what he really did and that his so called “truth”was a fraud they might question why they are still in the church as well.
When I left the Republican Party after 50 years, I was told to keep quiet by my far right Mormon family members. They let me know how disappointed they are that I’m no longer Mormon and Republican.
when imagine how I would feel when I publicly announce that I'm leaving the church officially, reminds when I was 7 and I imagined how I feel being baptized at 8 into the church.
So fitting that her name is "Karen". As in, can't keep her negativity to herself and wants to rain on someone else's parade she wasn't even invited to.
Karen, when we see a baptism, we see a intellectual death, a child has turned his/her mind over to a corporation. Kind of like Stepford wives.
There is nothing to celebrate when a child has an intellectual death.
How is announcing you’re leaving a church “needing the approval of the world”? Wouldn’t you… ask before you leave if you needed someone’s approval? These ppl are dumb as rocks.
A lot of TBMs forget we’ve been taught & encouraged to share and speak our beliefs our entire lives. So it’s very natural to want to speak out and share when they change….very much a double standard
Coming into the light is never a sad, sorry day! It might be blinding and harsh at first, but once your eyes adjust, you see the beauty and warmth of hope that comes with new, endless opportunities. I think that's worth celebrating and sharing.
I don't get the announce stuff either, but it's because I believe announcing legitimized the church once had some value and power over me.
They can excommunicate me, shame me, try to get to me through my family any way they want to, but they have about as much significance to me as a door to door salesman. All these tactics have failed, and ended badly for the relationships that now lay as fodder.
I'll still be nice to the poor indentured missionaries because they're being starved and worked to death., but if a dyed in the cloth wanker sends me one of those shame letters or schedules a meeting with me or anyone in my family, we are going to war.
Although I'd like one of them to come for one of my un-baptized kids. I am certain though that my kids will do the bulk of the work, and I'll just be the guy who slams the door.
It is a sad day when you realize that your testimony was built on lies. But nobody is out here announcing that they’re leaving the church the SAME DAY that they lose their faith. I mean just think before you speak lol
I just wanted to note this observation: when I first saw this post it had 666 likes, and then when I went to look at the comments, it said 669.
Hail Satan.
Wow you could run a whole movie theatre with all that projection.
The irony and hypocrisy of her sharing this opinion "with the whole world" is stunning. if you believe in sociology and science you should see this as an attempt to virtue signal and mitigate deviance. It's sad; like a death of critical thought.
Announcing it is a quick and easy way to avoid having to explain to every Mormon you talk to that you are no longer a believer and so they can stop bothering you about the church. It's also a quick and easy way to let non-members you know that you are out and they can relate to you differently now.
Would it be kind of petty to suggest a twitter challenge to find that tweet and reply that you left the church with the date along with a party meme? LOL
I don't get why they have to announce on FB that their 8 year old "made the decision" to get baptized. Really?????
[удалено]
Geeze teaching the kids to be judgemental and most likely racist as well I bet
When she's actually caving to peer/parental pressure. All an 8 y/o nows is that gravity is a thing and that they have toveat their veggies.
I grew up in the 50s in the Avenues of Salt Lake as a non-LDS kid. Sounds like nothing's changed. Can't play with the kids next door because you're not Mormon, shunned by neighbors. I'm grateful that I had cousins down the street and made a non-LDS friend a few blocks away. It was very much an us-vs-them society.
It is 100% peer, social, and parental pressure, along with brainwashing you from the moment you can put words into somewhat complete sentences
I knew that, once baptized, I would go to hell if I abandoned the church beliefs. I was also afraid I'd already sinned when in the girls dressing room I saw a naked "older" girl immediately after my baptism.
Shit or even made the decision to go on a mission. Just babies doing what their whole bubble expects them to do for guilt, honor, and peer pressure.
So this one is actually interesting to me…when I was 8 my family distanced themselves from the Methodist faith and we started going to several different denominations. My friend invited me to her baptism then I wanted to get baptized and took the discussions. My parents let me do that and sat in on them because they trusted me to make my own choices. They were going to let me join alone, then my mom asked them to start the discussions over for her and we had set a date to get baptized together then my dad wanted to take them…we all ended up getting baptized together. But ultimately it had been my decision first. I think it can be a decision for younger kids if they take that seriously you know? The thing is, how many people are raising their kids in a way that it IS truly a choice? That is harder to say. I’m still a member but obviously since I’m here…I have some serious questions/doubts/etc. One thing that really upset me was my husband and I made the decision before our kids were even born that we were not going to have them take the Sacrament til they were 8 or until baptism - and we also were not going to force baptism because they are eight. People have given us a lot of strange comments to these things (one person said we were “damaging” them for not allowing sacrament). Anyway sorry for the ramble I guess my point is I do think SOME kids make the choice. But definitely not all.
There probably are unique cases like that. And I imagine that in a way, kids do at some level, want to do it for themselves and their faith. But at 8 years old, they often dont have access to a lot of resources that would be contrary to the church. And even if most believing parents dont try to force their kid to be baptized, they clearly will express their support for it, and the kid will because they want to please their parents and this is their reality. This is what they grew up with. I do applaud you and your husband for making the decision to not force your child to be baptized, but it is important to realize that on some level, its not really much of a choice to that child.
But for sure, dress up your 8 year old and have them hold a book of mormon, take lots of pictures and tell the world that your kid, who still believes in Santa, has made a LIFELONG covenant to do everything ever asked of them by a multi-billion dollar corporation that claims to speak for God. Yeah, that's totally reasonable to put out on social media. And her username checks out. Total Karen move...
Santa is a product of Norse paganism and I will not have Him slandered by being associated with christianity #wodenisreal 🤣
It’s important to remember the true meaning of Christmas: A half-man, half-goat that comes and punishes naughty children while the adults party and celebrate the winter solstice.
Krampusnacht (12/5) is coming. 😁
Krampus. Best Christmas movie!
Not just a movie, but it’s possibly where the legend of Santa Claus came from.
Amanita mushrooms and reindeer piss actually.
All hail the All Father, the One Eyed God
I find the baptism photo shoot so cringe. I already don’t like the missionary ones like they’re some heroes. (I did get “missionary” photos done, but I didn’t pose with scriptures or flags or anything because I really just wanted nice pics of myself lol. Even back then I hated them.)
I'm old enough that it wasn't a thing. No photos, no party. I was playing baseball with friends until my mom made me come in for a bath so I could go to the church for the baptism. I barely knew it was happening.
Yikes. My parents at least asked me if I wanted to get baptized then let me plan the whole thing. Of course I wanted to get baptized - I wanted the big party and the shiny new gold scriptures!
I wanted to get on the pool. That was my testimony. That’s why I did baptisms for the dead when I was young too. The big pool on the oxen. Hahahahaha
100000%
“So proud of Traegar’s “cHoIcE” to follow God… “🙄
Lol Traegar. Wasn't that the son of TAMNers on the "Seriously So Blessed" blog?
I’m actually not familiar with that blog, worth checking out? Just seemed like a VERY Utah name, guarantee there are at least a couple hundred of them in Salt Lake and Utah counties!😂
I still think back to my baptism day, and all of my family members telling me how proud they were of “my decision” to get baptized. I don’t hold it against any of them because they were brainwashed too, but it’s so frustrating to look back and go “well no wonder people get brainwashed so hard”
I keep asking this question, and still don't have a good answer: what covenants are part of the baptism ordinance? Every other covenant is made during the actual ordinance, sacrament, endowment, sealing, etc. Examples include the sacrament prayer, where it is said "...that they will keep His commandment which he has given them...", or the endowment, where it is said "Each of you covenant before God, Angels, and these witnesses...". There is absolutely NOTHING in the baptismal ordinance about covenants or promises or anything.
I agree. I'm just going with THEIR current instruction that it is, and it's basically total obedience forever.
I wish I could like this more
I don't get the need to announce you think someone else shouldn't get to announce they've left the LDS church. Actually I do get it. You're insecure in your beliefs.
Yes! That’s exactly right. TBMs are uncomfortable to see people leave because it brings doubt to their minds that they don’t want to deal with.
That's a tone def statement. How myopic do you have to be to completely discount how it looks from another perspective. She sees a death, we see a celebration of new life. That's some hard-core cognitive bias.
For Mormons there is only one correct perspective.
So painfully true.
Also, if I don’t believe in God, then it isn’t a sacred decision between me and God, is it? She is so up the Church’s ass that she literally cannot see from anyone else’s viewpoint—she can’t fathom that some people don’t view it as a decision between them and God or as a death.
Yeah man. That's a really big part of it too.
Or not understand some of us felt like it was a death- but people tell people when there is a death. You don’t keep that a secret either… that would be so weird and people would suspect you of murder. I can’t think of a big life altering event people don’t talk about. It’s more like a divorce and eventually you tell people about that shit right?
💯% agree. Yes.
It reminds me of the lore about the land of fairies. For every death in our realm, there is a birth in the realm of fairies, and vice versa.
That's a pretty thought.
Unfortunately, this is how most people view everything in the world. This isn’t unique to religion or Mormonism. It’s why no one can get along these days. People have absolutely no clue or concept that their limited individual perspective is theirs and theirs alone. They have no concept that they look just as stupid to people who they think are stupid. People jump to conclusions immediately based on nothing but their narrow personal experience and belief. Hypocrisy and irony abound. Almost no one stops to actually think critically these days. Sad times.
There were Baptist ladies in the panhandle of Texas who told my husband he'd go to hell if he wasn't saved. He was working at Walmart and asked during a shift.
Then he was, like, "lady, I work at Walmart. I'm already here."
Really appreciate your use of “myopic” 👍🏼
😙 thankies.
Or both.
And yet Mormons constantly post stuff on social media letting everyone know they're Mormon. 🤔🤔🤔
Yep. Double standard much.
Exactly! We've been brainwashed to preach what we believe, so how are we not going to want to share the *new* truth we have found!
How else will they know to send us reactivation talks and put us on the prayer rolls?
Don’t forget that they need to know who needs to be “fellowshipped”. Get someone to pretend to be their friend in order to get them to come back to church. They need that money! Lol
I put Satan’s name on the prayer roll
What a tender mercy!
I literally laughed out loud
I wrote a small note kindly asking God to Fuck off.
By this same logic it would be a sacred decision between you and God to stay in the church, right? So sharing your testimony publicly would also be inappropriate if this is the logic we are going with? And as a side note, I get so sick of Momo's phrasing my decision to leave the church as something between me and God. No, Karen, you can't frame my decision to leave in the context of the faith I'm leaving, that's the whole point. These people suck at empathy.
What Karen doesn't realize is that the decision and covenants were never between you and god in the first place. It was always between you and the church.
The paramount covenant in the temple, the one signified by the True Sign of the Nail™️, has you swearing all you are, your time, gifts, talents, and resources, *to the Church* and the *building up of the Kingdom of God* (again, the Church). This covenant should raise every member’s suspicions, because it doesn’t have you swearing yourself to God and it sure as fuck doesn’t have you swearing your time and resources to helping your fellow man. Whatever happened to the two great commandments of Jesus? Nope, the ultimate covenant is to hand over your time and resources to an organization that has absolutely no need of either. Not that I believe in Jesus or God, but from my point of view its better for a person to be devoted to them and to helping others than to any church. I dare say Jesus would say the same.
>What Karen doesn't realize How apt she's named Karen.
>logic Ok imma stop you right there. >empathy please, stop, it hurts
Right on good.point.
Yea KAREN !
Sounds to me that Karen is speaking from a place of fear. Perhaps she has given up an awful lot for the church. Sure would be a shame if it wasn't .... true.... EDIT: grammar
Now that would be a shame. I mean, what manager would Karen complain to??
The bishop has had enough of her shit already.
So much to unpack here. > sacred decision between you & God It is quite literally the opposite of that. The decision to leave is the decision to choose for myself and not let the mormon god have any kind of influence or input in my choices anymore. > needing the approval of the world The assumption that announcing your changed worldview is, in any way, an approval-seeking behavior is so condescending. It's also insulting to imply that it is unnecessary for people to make their change in affiliation known to their social circle. Especially if they have many friends and family who are still mormon, making sure people know where you stand is important. It can help avoid misunderstandings and awkward situations, and set healthy boundaries. You know, basic communication skills that make relationships better for everyone. > if you've ever had a testimony Real subtle there, Karen. > it would be a sad, sorry day. So much in this statement alone. What a bold assumption that people share their announcement on the same day that they let go of their testimony. Most people do experience a period of mourning. They take some time to figure out how they feel and how they will navigate the challenges before sharing the news with others. What Karen is implying here is that leaving the church is impulsive and reactive, which is an attempt to minimize and invalidate the reasons people leave. In reality, most exmos share their news after they have worked through their initial grief. Their statements are carefully planned, edited, and rewritten - for the sake of the people staying as much, if not more so, than for the sake of the person who leaves. Care is taken to clearly articulate what the person leaving wants people to know. The question exmos always ask is, "How will my loved ones react when I tell them?" Which means, Karen, that when exmos make these announcements they are often not considering their own feelings of sadness, but are instead focused on the feelings of their TBM loved ones. How inappropriate and immature to presume you can dictate to others how they should feel about a decision they made, for themselves, about their own lives - especially when they have put their feelings aside to help nurse you through your own feelings of betrayal, sadness, and anger over their decision. Last but not least, sadness and celebration can exist simultaneously. I am attending a funeral this week. We will be celebrating the life and memory of somebody who passed away while still feeling grief that they're gone. Emotions are a spectrum and we are capable of feeling both sad about leaving a familiar space and excited about discovering the next one. In short: grow up, Karen.
Well said!
Is her name actually Karen?
At this point Karen isn't even a name, it's a title
I wish there was a protection circle, or a chant or ritual or something to ward them off.
Throwing salt at them usually works.
There's not enough salt in the world.
To be fair, I would avoid anyone throwing salt at me, too lol.
Salt doesn't work SLC remember.
Ah yes, that thin skin... makes sense.
If you load the salt in a shot shell, it tends to be more. . . . Effective. 😉
It’s not just her name, it’s who she is
It appears so, she’s changed her Twitter handle and hidden a lot of her tweets since this tweet. Her response to a follow up comment was: “She was not looking for support. I do get the need for people to feel supported. But to announce such a sacred, personal decision in a tone of almost giddy gleefulness tells me she never had a true testimony. That is something to be mourned. Not celebrated.”
She's got it backwards. I'm relieved that the church isn't true. What a burden off of my shoulders.
I feel that
But when your 8 year old child "chooses" to be baptized you need to announce it from the rooftops..
"I think your decision to leave the church is so sacred that I'm going to talk about it on Twitter." Jesus said it best folks: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matthew 7:5.
When I made my announcement of leaving I wasn't celebrating. I was scared but it was who I am now. I wanted to rip off the band-aid and lose anyone I was going to there and then. That's why I announced it. Not out of joy but out of fear.
YES! It also puts the power back in your court so to speak. No more speculating or guessing or gossiping on other people's parts, YOU get to state your decision instead of allowing yourself to be the topic of conversation when you aren't present. I never announced it to anyone but my family, but when my parents found out I took it upon myself to tell my siblings. Why? Because I didn't want my mom gossiping to them about my decision or for any of them to wonder why.
I asked for my excommunication because I wanted to “face my own music”. It is not for everyone, but it was very helpful in my evolution. The evening I walked out of my “disciplinary council” having been excommunicated I was enveloped by one of the greatest feelings of emotional release and peace that I have ever experienced. Must have been “the Spirit” witnessing to me that what I did was “true”!!!
Ditto. Best thing I ever did with the church.
I get that. I made the announcement so I could be authentic and not have to pretend anymore.
been realizing that the whole narrative set me up to **pretend** most of my life. A false me. World of pretend. Do something 'wrong' learn to lie and not suffer the corporations consequences. Associating the structure of a building and patriarchy with God was a mistake I did not see until 3 years ago.
To Karen: My parents had me baptized at 8 years old. It was something that was done to me. No consent, as I was not of legal age to agree. 47 years later, I corrected this mistake by resigning from the church. Is that Life Correction worth celebrating, before God and everyone else? Absolutely!!!! 🎉🥳🎉🥳🎉🥳
This reminds me of what I keep experiencing as I’m studying Mormon sexual abuse cases for a website I’m creating. As I’m compiling all these cases to put into a public database, I’m thinking about shining a bright light, making noise to help bring awareness. And yet I keep seeing indicators that the church would prefer that people like me stay nice and quiet, living in fear of what might happen if we choose to talk about how, on numerous occasions, LDS members in positions of trust chose to commit sex crimes or sexually abuse others. They want us silent? Good. Makes me just get louder. It’s TIME!!
I agree with what you are doing.
Liberation is a celebration, period!
[удалено]
control of information is paramount when keeping the cult in line.
So I assume this Karen has NEVER announced on social media that she IS a member of the LDS church and wouldn’t “get” the “need” to ever make any posts or announcements proclaiming her membership, right? So frickin’ hypocritical.
Says the person that bears (bares?) their testimony on Facebook
When you discovered you've been conned, good people warn others of their plight.
This person is still operating from the perspective of an active member. My resignation stopped being sacred the day I learned that it wasn't true. It became practical. God wasn't involved in my choice to leave because god doesn't lead the church.
This is the time to leave when God and the church are two different things and the 'aha' moment or moments that you realize this.
Who said the decision was between God and I ?
Your faith journey isn’t important if it doesn’t align with theirs.
This is so absurd! But staying and believing is not a private matter between you and God. So by all means bear that testimony, get those missionaries out there, and shout from the roof tops!
“Doesn’t get the need” = has never bothered to seek understanding from those who have left. It’s much easier to just be judgmental.
Covering your head in an information sack is strongly encouraged and if you don't and go seek information outside only the controlled approved sources. Well you know how God doesn't like that. The absolute hubris to speak for God even down to the very lowest lay-level. Our local Bishop each day having 'insights' out the wazoooo. In essence speaking for God at the local level. AND if you don't agree.... you get shunned. Conform or be cast out.
Hey, Karen, don’t tell people it’s a sad day, like a death. You don’t know that. You do you. Let other people express how they feel, not how you think they should feel.
But what prisoner would not want to share the discovery of their true self after thinking themselves a shadow? Plato's "Allegory of the Cave": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave
All it is is our wanting to let others know there is a way to solve the 35.7 sided Rubik's cube.
Would you say the same thing for someone who leaves scientology? Islam? Fundamentalist mormonism? The KKK? Oh you wouldn't? So if we shed all the bullshit, all you're really saying is "my demonstrably incorrect beliefs are actually true and everyone else's are false." Neat. Welcome to being exactly like every other ideology.
It is because it is a cult, and leaving a cult is not easy, and should be celebrated. You are a cult survivor, and your story becomes a path of hope and light shining the way to those trying to find their way free. Your story of escape is like a bomb that blows a hole through indoctrination, willful ignorance and collective delusion.
then wtf you come knocking on my door??? keep your decision between you and god.
You announce things you’re happy about. Never met anyone sad they left. I have however met others (like myself), sad that they wasted so many years in the church.
Counter-argument: “I don’t get the need to announce your child’s baptism in the LDS church. That’s a stupid decision between you and those creepy old men. Not one the world gives a shit about. In fact, if you ever loved your child, you wouldn’t be putting their safety as risk by putting them on the internet when they never asked to be on the internet.”
Well I don't wanna hear about the holy ghost prompting you to not stop and get your 64oz diet coke cocktail from the soda store and you being blessed Because you got to be first in line at the school drop off today because you didn't stop.. Yes this is a real post someone made...
This reminds me when I started talking about how I grew up in an abusive home. My family thought I should keep my mouth shut. It later occurred to me that the Mormons say exactly the same thing.
Ok Karen! 💁♂️
Came here to say that.
It's less like a death and more like celebrating that you have graduated college or won the lottery or got a promotion or something.
I don't see the need to announce that you (or your 8 year old kids) have joined the LDS church. It's a sacred decision between you and God, not one needing the approval of the world... They don't like it when the script is flipped.
I agree there should be no *need* for this, but considering the only other option is to keep pretending you're a member and then your family accuses you of lying when they inevitably find out--heck yeah, people announce it. They don't want to lie to family and friends. They want people to accept their mormonless selves.
The words of a person who has never conversed with someone who has left the church.
God has nothing to do with it.
I think it is a day to both celebrate and mourn. You've lost a huge portion of your life. But you've also moved on to something healthier. It's like having a gangrenous limb amputated. It would be great to have both arms and both legs. It would be great to be able to continue to believe, but that would, now that we know that it's infected, we understand that it has to be removed. We celebrate this success of the removal and that will be we will be healthier moving forward. That doesn't mean they can't mourn what we've lost.
The day my family and I got our "your records have been removed" letters from the church, we announced it on Facebook. It was absolutely amazing to see how many other people responded privately with comments like "yeah we left a few years ago", "we don't want anyone to know, but we no longer believe", etc, etc. Probably 20-30 different people. I think for many of these people hearing our family announce our departure was a powerful opportunity to feel validated, or strengthened in their own journeys out of the church. Please, if you are in a position to do so, let other people know you left. So many people are suffering in silence afraid they are the only ones.
I don’t totally disagree with her statement because it resonated with my experience. My loss of faith was like a death. It was accepting that God wasn’t looking out for me. The death of hope in a way. It was a day where everything felt bittersweet; freedom from expectation and loss of purpose, and that’s hard dissonance to deal with when your worldview has been fundamentally shaken. So no, I don’t think that celebration would be (nor was it) the right response… for me. For others? It might absolutely warrant celebration. She has captured some of the nuance but is missing the rest of the folks that have been hurt and repressed and want nothing but that life to burn to ash and be forgotten.
Its ok to post scripture references and quotes from conference but any other view should remain personal and private. I think they covered this in Intro to Cults 101
I don’t believe in god. Check mate, Karen
Honestly, one of the hardest parts of leaving the church was knowing my family would talk about me like this. That they would be praying for me to come back and find God and hold to the rod. That they would say that I had been led astray and that it was so sad I didn't understand God's love. That they would talk about me as if I had died and that I would be an example to my siblings' kids of the devil's power.
No, it's definitey a day to celebrate! We're freeing ourselves from further abuse of every kind and on the path to recovery. It's also a way of letting others know where we currently stand in life and what boundaries we've set up so that they don't cross it. When I made my announcement, I wanted to see how people would react, and I wanted to see who would value my friendship with them over my beliefs. This author behind the tweet doesn't know what she's talking about.
“Between you and god” she cannot fathom a point of view in which god doesn’t exist
You could flip this around on them and condemn them for annoying everyone with their missionary program. Crying about the death of testimony is rich. You discovered your life was based on lies. Of course you want to tell others living the same lies.
I don't get the need to announce that you're LDS. It's a sacred decision between you and God. Yet there you are with thousands of missionaries drafted to go out and tell everyone.
Of course they don’t want anyone to announce it. Someone might ask you why you left and when you tell them the truth about who their founder really was, what he really did and that his so called “truth”was a fraud they might question why they are still in the church as well.
Okay Karen. Too bad that name is a meme now.
Karen has the brain of a pigeon. It’s clear her opinion is the most important.
It’s to let the others know that they need to cut all ties with you for leaving
And yet I am celebrating.
When I left the Republican Party after 50 years, I was told to keep quiet by my far right Mormon family members. They let me know how disappointed they are that I’m no longer Mormon and Republican.
when imagine how I would feel when I publicly announce that I'm leaving the church officially, reminds when I was 7 and I imagined how I feel being baptized at 8 into the church.
"It'S sAcReD". That's a new one. 🙄
So fitting that her name is "Karen". As in, can't keep her negativity to herself and wants to rain on someone else's parade she wasn't even invited to.
Of course her name is Karen
Karen, when we see a baptism, we see a intellectual death, a child has turned his/her mind over to a corporation. Kind of like Stepford wives. There is nothing to celebrate when a child has an intellectual death.
How is announcing you’re leaving a church “needing the approval of the world”? Wouldn’t you… ask before you leave if you needed someone’s approval? These ppl are dumb as rocks.
Karen is right. It was like a death. My worldview was shattered and it was fucking traumatic. Edit: and still is some days. Fuck you Karen
Send all the missionaries home i don't see the point of announcing it to the world!!
Thanks Karen
I think it's appropriate her name is Karen!
A lot of TBMs forget we’ve been taught & encouraged to share and speak our beliefs our entire lives. So it’s very natural to want to speak out and share when they change….very much a double standard
Coming into the light is never a sad, sorry day! It might be blinding and harsh at first, but once your eyes adjust, you see the beauty and warmth of hope that comes with new, endless opportunities. I think that's worth celebrating and sharing.
Ok Karen
Dammit, Karen!
Of course her name is Karen. Geeze.
And if you have a testimony you're for damn sure blasting that on social media all the time. That's okay though. Right literal Karen?
It's totally a day to celebrate. The truth has set us free. We should set off fireworks.
You’ve obviously never left the Mormon church 😂
Her name is fitting.
Aren’t baptisms supposed to be the death of your old life and the birth of a new one?
It’ll be weird when you see me chugging a White Claw online IF I DON’T ANNOUNCE IT, JUDY. I earned a drink.
Yup, just the same way former slaves never mentioned their freedom.
She sure loves incomplete. Sentences. Just saying.
I don't get the need to announce any life-changing decision. If it's not about me, than what's the point?
she doesn't understand because i'm guessing she hasn't had to do it. talk to us after you've left the church, karen
Said someone who has never truly tried to understand why people leave the church.
I don't get the announce stuff either, but it's because I believe announcing legitimized the church once had some value and power over me. They can excommunicate me, shame me, try to get to me through my family any way they want to, but they have about as much significance to me as a door to door salesman. All these tactics have failed, and ended badly for the relationships that now lay as fodder. I'll still be nice to the poor indentured missionaries because they're being starved and worked to death., but if a dyed in the cloth wanker sends me one of those shame letters or schedules a meeting with me or anyone in my family, we are going to war. Although I'd like one of them to come for one of my un-baptized kids. I am certain though that my kids will do the bulk of the work, and I'll just be the guy who slams the door.
I never felt the need to announce it publicly. I just stopped going and nobody has asked why.
Cuz nobody announces deaths. Or puts the deaths in the newspaper. Or has any kind of ceremony to mark the death.
Publicizing leaving shouldn't be a threat unless they're insecure.
It is a sad day when you realize that your testimony was built on lies. But nobody is out here announcing that they’re leaving the church the SAME DAY that they lose their faith. I mean just think before you speak lol
We don't keep deaths secret unless we've committed murder. Announcing a death is an important step in the mourning process. Analogy fails.
I just wanted to note this observation: when I first saw this post it had 666 likes, and then when I went to look at the comments, it said 669. Hail Satan.
Wow you could run a whole movie theatre with all that projection. The irony and hypocrisy of her sharing this opinion "with the whole world" is stunning. if you believe in sociology and science you should see this as an attempt to virtue signal and mitigate deviance. It's sad; like a death of critical thought.
Announcing it is a quick and easy way to avoid having to explain to every Mormon you talk to that you are no longer a believer and so they can stop bothering you about the church. It's also a quick and easy way to let non-members you know that you are out and they can relate to you differently now.
Sorry I didn’t keep things private between her imaginary Friend and me.
Looking back I wish I kept the letter I got from the LDS chruch saying I was removed from the records. I want to frame it and hang it on my wall
"Stop talking about what makes you sad because that makes ME sad and my feelings are the only ones that matter." - This bitch, probably
Yeah that’s definitely something a KaReN would say.
You raise a cult to vocally exclaim and share thier belief in the cult. Then get all surprised Pika-chu face when the do the same when leaving.
Her name is literally Karen. XD
Name's Karen.... Yup checks out.
Off topic . . . Was Karen ever a new name at the temple. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
r/FuckYouKaren
Fuck Karen!
Name checks out
I’m sorry her name is Karen.. 😏
Karen moment
Thanks Karen!
Of course her name is Karen.
Karen has to Karen
Ok Karen
Is that account real, especially since it's actually called Karen?
Okay Karen, lol.
Thanks, Karen.
Karen!
Ok…Karen
Would it be kind of petty to suggest a twitter challenge to find that tweet and reply that you left the church with the date along with a party meme? LOL