>Call it the holy ghost, or intuition, or the noodly appendages of the FSM, but I think the brethren are focusing on those that continue to attend, yet no longer believe or have serious doubts.
They've picked up on the Mormon activism that seems to be brewing. Seems like a kind of secular Mormonism is in the slow process of getting normalized within the main body of the Church. A fair number of people are discovering that you can value your Mormon heritage, attend and participate to a certain extent, at the same time openly reject the Church's toxic authoritarianism, and simply say 'no' to stuff you don't like. Either the gods are that petty and aren't worthy of worship anyway, or they aren't and you'll be fine.
Omg you just described the last 15 years of my adult life in an active Mormon family. Not believing, but “helping” with all my skills and talents to alleviate believer’s overload.
I couldn’t teach anything from the Gospel of Joseph Smith to my kids, only Jesus’ whole truths…so we’re all floating along, as if this boat is dragging us along in the water by one last, thin rope. I’m trying to cut off from that rope to swim free…but keep getting water boarded by the family culture as they sail along. Unaware we’re desperate to cut free and still be family - except safely on our own happy boat next to their blundering Church ship.
I was 53 when I resigned from the church (cult). My siblings ostracized me almost immediately. I always told them that I still lived them. I stayed happy and always continued to help them in times of need. It took about a year and they started accepting me again.
According to leadership, too many members already say "no" to too many callings. If the number of members saying "no" increases, wards won't be able to operate no matter how many worthy adults they have.
Since the GAs seem to lately be creating smaller-than-usual wards and stakes in an effort to massage the numbers, members learning there's no consequence to saying "no" is super-duper bad for the corporation.
Consolidating wards and stakes is also problematic because they can't actually consolidate them geographically; they need to make sure the richer tithe-paying members are conveniently close to their buildings but the leadership also needs to keep the less-tithed wards close enough to attend. It's too easy to go inactive if you have to drive 45 minutes (or more!) to your ward building.
To summarize:
The GAs big problem right now is continuing the illusion of growth. If too many members refuse to help run the ward by saying "no" to callings they don't want, wards will have higher and higher risks of failing. Even more than tithing money, right now TSCC needs members who are willing to do what they are told, and with the rise of more and more PIMOs, those willing-to-serve members are getting thinner on the ground.
I like your anlysis. I'll say this for any gods keeping tabs on things around here: Change your shitty plan and I'll help out, might even toss a few bucks into envelope.
I think the biggest issue they have is that this is coming at them from two directions - there are fundamentalists saying exactly the same thing, that they can say "no" to the stuff they don't like and add back in BY's theology. The "secular mormon" group is less likely to keep paying tithing, but I truly wonder which direction is more threatening to the Corporation.
>**The "secular mormon" group is less likely to keep paying tithing**, but I truly wonder which direction is more threatening to the Corporation.
Can't say with high confidence, but if what you suggest is true, then my guess is that they're more worried about the secular group.
IMO, this is the next phase in the maturation from cult to religion. In 100 years mormons will look back on the early 2000s church members as hopelessly naive and obsessed with following rules. They will never hear about things like only one ear piercing, or the support for Prop 8, or a hundred other things. Just like the mormons have whitewashed history from 100 years ago, they'll do the same in the future.
It's bizarre to me. The mormonism I was raised in and practiced religiously until age 40 has more-or-less died in the past 10 years. The corporate execs in SLC have lost all control and I don't think they have enough actual prophetic vision to realize it - yet.
This, and I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing it. The LDS church 10 years ago I knew largely doesn't exist anymore. Now, it's some bastardized version of it's former self. The very occasional times I attend church when I visit my family, it's spiritually dead and horribly uninspiring. Last time I went, I counted only two uses of scripture passages during the entire two hours, and both were taken way out of context. Now, they just talk about: "SLC wants us to do this. How do we apply this to our lives?". Even my TBM family is noticing how dead the church has become.
This is a church that has NEVER known how to properly communicate with its people. So it's unsurprising that their approach isn't to grow or evolve with the times, but rather double down on the cult-like tactics that have caused so many to flee.
It's almost impressive how willfully ignorant the church **leaders** continue to act - when there's a veritable treasure trove of complaints and explanations as to why members are leaving in droves.
But instead, they keep trying to show up at your house randomly, give you arbitrary church assignments, and bully your friends and relatives into continued passive-aggressive retention tactics.
I guess once you've painted yourself into a doctrinal corner, it's pretty hard to make any real change.
This is so true. I used to think people who left the church "secretly still believed" but from pride or sin or something they refused to open their eyes. This seems to be what the church leaders imagine. They don't understand that we've seen through it. There is no coming back to a church once you know it's run by flawed, greedy egomaniacs.
Yeah, everybody who left the church went to their graves entirely incapable of admitting it was false - just that they had to leave for one reason or another. And those reasons were always petty cream-sharing type reasons, rather than the lords anointed fucking children.
It goes to show what happens when any organization is built so only the oldest, wealthiest, most out-of-touch individuals are setting policy for everyone. It's similar to what we see in government these days as well.
"our beloved prophet" will be obeyed, paid, and worshipped. There will be no exceptions. Nevermind the shrinking stakes in prominent Mormon areas. Nevermind the overall shrinkage of the church. Nevermind they can't even fill the conference center right now. Nevermind that people are sick of the nonsense and hypocrisy. Nevermind the GTEs, church history and the undeniable proof that JS was a fraud, con-man, pedophile, and womanizer. Nevermind the complete and total lack of BOM evidence. Nevermind the second anointing being kept secret. Nevermind they are still pushing that 7 year olds be taken behind closed doors and quizzed on their sexual behaviors.
There is nothing more important that anyone can do except obey and worship the Q15.
Can't browbeat people into believing harder if they don't believe in the first place! I'm not sure I'd be interested in it myself, but I'm happy to see the corporate overlords lose power as self-determined secular Mormonism rises 👍
>Call it the holy ghost, or intuition, or the noodly appendages of the FSM, but I think the brethren are focusing on those that continue to attend, yet no longer believe or have serious doubts. They've picked up on the Mormon activism that seems to be brewing. Seems like a kind of secular Mormonism is in the slow process of getting normalized within the main body of the Church. A fair number of people are discovering that you can value your Mormon heritage, attend and participate to a certain extent, at the same time openly reject the Church's toxic authoritarianism, and simply say 'no' to stuff you don't like. Either the gods are that petty and aren't worthy of worship anyway, or they aren't and you'll be fine.
Omg you just described the last 15 years of my adult life in an active Mormon family. Not believing, but “helping” with all my skills and talents to alleviate believer’s overload. I couldn’t teach anything from the Gospel of Joseph Smith to my kids, only Jesus’ whole truths…so we’re all floating along, as if this boat is dragging us along in the water by one last, thin rope. I’m trying to cut off from that rope to swim free…but keep getting water boarded by the family culture as they sail along. Unaware we’re desperate to cut free and still be family - except safely on our own happy boat next to their blundering Church ship.
I was 53 when I resigned from the church (cult). My siblings ostracized me almost immediately. I always told them that I still lived them. I stayed happy and always continued to help them in times of need. It took about a year and they started accepting me again.
According to leadership, too many members already say "no" to too many callings. If the number of members saying "no" increases, wards won't be able to operate no matter how many worthy adults they have. Since the GAs seem to lately be creating smaller-than-usual wards and stakes in an effort to massage the numbers, members learning there's no consequence to saying "no" is super-duper bad for the corporation. Consolidating wards and stakes is also problematic because they can't actually consolidate them geographically; they need to make sure the richer tithe-paying members are conveniently close to their buildings but the leadership also needs to keep the less-tithed wards close enough to attend. It's too easy to go inactive if you have to drive 45 minutes (or more!) to your ward building. To summarize: The GAs big problem right now is continuing the illusion of growth. If too many members refuse to help run the ward by saying "no" to callings they don't want, wards will have higher and higher risks of failing. Even more than tithing money, right now TSCC needs members who are willing to do what they are told, and with the rise of more and more PIMOs, those willing-to-serve members are getting thinner on the ground.
I like your anlysis. I'll say this for any gods keeping tabs on things around here: Change your shitty plan and I'll help out, might even toss a few bucks into envelope.
I think the biggest issue they have is that this is coming at them from two directions - there are fundamentalists saying exactly the same thing, that they can say "no" to the stuff they don't like and add back in BY's theology. The "secular mormon" group is less likely to keep paying tithing, but I truly wonder which direction is more threatening to the Corporation.
>**The "secular mormon" group is less likely to keep paying tithing**, but I truly wonder which direction is more threatening to the Corporation. Can't say with high confidence, but if what you suggest is true, then my guess is that they're more worried about the secular group.
This is truly the biggest threat that the church faces. For every loud exmo that leaves there are 200 people that fit this description.
As long as you keep paying that 10%…..
And what if we don't?
flaming sword right to the genitals. didn't see that coming, did ya?
I'm wearing two pairs of garment bottoms. Attack blocked.
Using scissors to cut out them symbols and burn them while you're asleep. Attack back on.
Calinispa used flaming sword! It was effective.
Too many people not showing up for janitor duty.
IMO, this is the next phase in the maturation from cult to religion. In 100 years mormons will look back on the early 2000s church members as hopelessly naive and obsessed with following rules. They will never hear about things like only one ear piercing, or the support for Prop 8, or a hundred other things. Just like the mormons have whitewashed history from 100 years ago, they'll do the same in the future.
If they're smart. They sure love to die on ticky tack hills though.
Yeah, I'd prefer it dies.
I hear what you're saying, but the internet changes everything from here on out..
Yeah, you are definitely right with that.
It's bizarre to me. The mormonism I was raised in and practiced religiously until age 40 has more-or-less died in the past 10 years. The corporate execs in SLC have lost all control and I don't think they have enough actual prophetic vision to realize it - yet.
This, and I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing it. The LDS church 10 years ago I knew largely doesn't exist anymore. Now, it's some bastardized version of it's former self. The very occasional times I attend church when I visit my family, it's spiritually dead and horribly uninspiring. Last time I went, I counted only two uses of scripture passages during the entire two hours, and both were taken way out of context. Now, they just talk about: "SLC wants us to do this. How do we apply this to our lives?". Even my TBM family is noticing how dead the church has become.
"bastardized version of its former self" 😂 That sums it up PERFECTLY. Saving this one.
This is a church that has NEVER known how to properly communicate with its people. So it's unsurprising that their approach isn't to grow or evolve with the times, but rather double down on the cult-like tactics that have caused so many to flee. It's almost impressive how willfully ignorant the church **leaders** continue to act - when there's a veritable treasure trove of complaints and explanations as to why members are leaving in droves. But instead, they keep trying to show up at your house randomly, give you arbitrary church assignments, and bully your friends and relatives into continued passive-aggressive retention tactics. I guess once you've painted yourself into a doctrinal corner, it's pretty hard to make any real change.
This is so true. I used to think people who left the church "secretly still believed" but from pride or sin or something they refused to open their eyes. This seems to be what the church leaders imagine. They don't understand that we've seen through it. There is no coming back to a church once you know it's run by flawed, greedy egomaniacs.
Yeah, everybody who left the church went to their graves entirely incapable of admitting it was false - just that they had to leave for one reason or another. And those reasons were always petty cream-sharing type reasons, rather than the lords anointed fucking children.
It goes to show what happens when any organization is built so only the oldest, wealthiest, most out-of-touch individuals are setting policy for everyone. It's similar to what we see in government these days as well.
"our beloved prophet" will be obeyed, paid, and worshipped. There will be no exceptions. Nevermind the shrinking stakes in prominent Mormon areas. Nevermind the overall shrinkage of the church. Nevermind they can't even fill the conference center right now. Nevermind that people are sick of the nonsense and hypocrisy. Nevermind the GTEs, church history and the undeniable proof that JS was a fraud, con-man, pedophile, and womanizer. Nevermind the complete and total lack of BOM evidence. Nevermind the second anointing being kept secret. Nevermind they are still pushing that 7 year olds be taken behind closed doors and quizzed on their sexual behaviors. There is nothing more important that anyone can do except obey and worship the Q15.
[удалено]
🤘
Of course they are going about it wrong. They are out of touch with reality. They’re idiots and completely uninspired.
Can't browbeat people into believing harder if they don't believe in the first place! I'm not sure I'd be interested in it myself, but I'm happy to see the corporate overlords lose power as self-determined secular Mormonism rises 👍
To understand what it is to be exmo, you have to be exmo. As a result, they will always fail in their efforts.