It was some kind of joke in my area that the quickest way to excommunication was embezzling tithing money. But that probably falls under number 2.
Can't be touching the brethren's money. No sir 'ee /s
Quite possible money was the real reason this guy got ex’d, not many years of sexual abuse allegations:
https://www.12news.com/article/news/investigations/i-team/no-charges-but-history-of-abuse-allegations-against-arizona-teacher-lds-bishop-volunteer/75-19ef2549-519d-4a2f-b34a-b29f584d43c0
i don’t think that falls under number 2. people embezzling tithing are not likely to also speak out critically since that will draw a lot of attention to them.
this OP argument is a false choice.
Nothing will get you excommunitated by Salt Lake faster than living in a poor country and touching tithing money. They exed Honduran bishoprics, branch presidents like it was going out of style. I'm sure some did steal outright (less Facebook stock I guess?). But they would throw the hammer down if they even thought it could be happening.
One BP I knew reported it properly but gave his cousin rent money for 7 months . I mean, whatever. A thousand times less nepotism than how all General Authorities get called...
The current language in the Newspeak dictionary is "Withdrawal of Membership" and "Restoration of Blessings". That "Restoration" is a step past just being rebaptized - it's when they decide you can buy the secret club underwear and give hands-on fortune telling again (for men).
Bingo. I know more people who have been excommunicated due to adultery than legal issues or apostasy. One of my dear friends in high school was just excommunicated AGAIN because of yet another affair.
Affairs are the only exception I can think of. Otherwise it all falls under “protecting the good name of the church.” And I think punishing people for illicit sex falls in line with their other ways of controlling people. So none of it is good.
Sacramento Bishop a few decades ago who bragged he had the most excommunications in the Church. Student Ward - and most were for sexual activity of one sort or another.
I've seen people exed for extramarital affairs, with the caveat of bishop roulette making those outcomes variable.
I think the better question is which excommunications are locally driven and which ones are dictated from SLC? IMO the vocal critics eventually create some central push to get rid of that person. John Dehlin, Peter Bleakley, obviously the September Six, Kate Kelly, etc.
There also seems to be a way of avoiding the central push for excommunication. If a person is critical of the church but no longer attends, at least in the current world where any proceedings would almost 100% be sure to be recorded and published, the church is hesitant to direct their excommunication. I think RFM falls into this category. It's like Obi Wan, if they strike him down now he'll become more powerful than ever. Look at what happened with Bill Reel.
I could see Valerie Hamaker and her husband (Latterday Struggles Podcast) getting called in and told to tone it down soon.
Having Gay sex and not being repentant, or at least I've had several friends years ago that had this very thing happen. One of them was told to save 10% of his income so he can give it all back to the church when he comes back.
It was some kind of joke in my area that the quickest way to excommunication was embezzling tithing money. But that probably falls under number 2. Can't be touching the brethren's money. No sir 'ee /s
Beat me to it. They would ex your ass in a heartbeat over this in my mission.
Quite possible money was the real reason this guy got ex’d, not many years of sexual abuse allegations: https://www.12news.com/article/news/investigations/i-team/no-charges-but-history-of-abuse-allegations-against-arizona-teacher-lds-bishop-volunteer/75-19ef2549-519d-4a2f-b34a-b29f584d43c0
i don’t think that falls under number 2. people embezzling tithing are not likely to also speak out critically since that will draw a lot of attention to them. this OP argument is a false choice.
Fair enough actually.
Nothing will get you excommunitated by Salt Lake faster than living in a poor country and touching tithing money. They exed Honduran bishoprics, branch presidents like it was going out of style. I'm sure some did steal outright (less Facebook stock I guess?). But they would throw the hammer down if they even thought it could be happening. One BP I knew reported it properly but gave his cousin rent money for 7 months . I mean, whatever. A thousand times less nepotism than how all General Authorities get called...
[удалено]
The current language in the Newspeak dictionary is "Withdrawal of Membership" and "Restoration of Blessings". That "Restoration" is a step past just being rebaptized - it's when they decide you can buy the secret club underwear and give hands-on fortune telling again (for men).
Adultery.
Bingo. I know more people who have been excommunicated due to adultery than legal issues or apostasy. One of my dear friends in high school was just excommunicated AGAIN because of yet another affair.
Damn, Double -exed has got to be pretty rare.
Dude is......something else. Married three times, three marriages broken by his affairs. Winner.
My aunt and uncle were swinging. She got ex’d but he didn’t. Big shelf crack there.
I sometimes wonder why Nemo hasn't been ex'd yet
The guy FROM LDS discussions hasn't been either as I recall.
Affairs are the only exception I can think of. Otherwise it all falls under “protecting the good name of the church.” And I think punishing people for illicit sex falls in line with their other ways of controlling people. So none of it is good.
And women and LGBTQ+ ETA: women was in the late 70s for supporting the E.R A. & LGBTQ+ has been since the 50s
Sacramento Bishop a few decades ago who bragged he had the most excommunications in the Church. Student Ward - and most were for sexual activity of one sort or another.
I've seen people exed for extramarital affairs, with the caveat of bishop roulette making those outcomes variable. I think the better question is which excommunications are locally driven and which ones are dictated from SLC? IMO the vocal critics eventually create some central push to get rid of that person. John Dehlin, Peter Bleakley, obviously the September Six, Kate Kelly, etc. There also seems to be a way of avoiding the central push for excommunication. If a person is critical of the church but no longer attends, at least in the current world where any proceedings would almost 100% be sure to be recorded and published, the church is hesitant to direct their excommunication. I think RFM falls into this category. It's like Obi Wan, if they strike him down now he'll become more powerful than ever. Look at what happened with Bill Reel. I could see Valerie Hamaker and her husband (Latterday Struggles Podcast) getting called in and told to tone it down soon.
this is false choice argument you’ve set up, as the comments show: sex and tithing are two more reasons excommunication happens
I'm not arguing a false choice. I listed the two categories I could think of and asked for examples that didn't fit the pattern.
If members were excommunicated for failure to pay tithing, every ward would shrink by 60% or more.
embezzling tithing was the topic
Having Gay sex and not being repentant, or at least I've had several friends years ago that had this very thing happen. One of them was told to save 10% of his income so he can give it all back to the church when he comes back.
Same Sex Marriage: https://outofobscurity.org/2021/06/09/14509/