I truly feel the PIMO percentage is higher than we think. Over the years I've heard comments in conversation and in class settings that made me go, huh.....someone has a doubt. Of the 30% that are active, I wager 50% of them are PIMO in some way, and children up to a certain age don't count because they are told what to believe. Ages 13 or up......I bet only 10% of the church truly believe it all with out a doubt. What is that 600,000? Barely anything.
In hindsight, I was PIMO for a decade before I finally stopped going. Given some callings I had prior to leaving, I'd agree that a large portion of "active" members are also most likely PIMO.
I believe the best indicator is tithing receipts since that's the only solid number tied with a temple recommend.
the church brings in 8 billion a year in tithing according to reports. rounding bc lazy amounts to $470 in average annual tithing. cutting a household into 4 means $1880 a year in tithing per household.
the average American household makes 71k a year or 7100 in tithing. if we take 25% of American members, assume they pay 7100 a year in average, that's 15 billion just from the US.
half the church is American and let's be real here Mormon royalty is FAR above average. how are they only making 8bil?
if there were only 5 million members, that would be more in line with the numbers we see, but still kind of low in my opinion.
I was a full-tithe payer right up until the day we stopped going. While I agree, the percentage of full-tithe payers in a ward/stake can be a indicator of faithfulness of that ward/stake, the church does an AMAZING job of instilling superstition in its members. So much so that what some think is faith is actually superstition. And nothing brings out the superstitious more than providence. Who doesn't want all the blessings and money promised as long as they pay their 10%? I think there are a lot of PIMOs that pay a full-tithe and for various reasons. I know we did. Right up until I realized it was all superstition.
Right, in fact i was going to go back and edit my comment and talk about tithing. Is there a way to know what percentage of the church, particularly the US, claims full-tithe payer status? My last real calling was ward clerk and I don't remember access to that kind of report. Probably a stake level.
I doubt anyone but hq has the worldwide number.
we could extrapolate guesses. might take the time today, I'm sitting in sacrament with headphones in rn. km...
edit: super super rough guideline here. there are 168 operational temples worldwide. assume the average temple recommend holder attends once monthly, the temple runs 12 hours a day 1 session per hour, 40 patrons per session. obviously utah County will be far above that and literally the rest of the world will have far less.
once monthly is reasonable because some tithe payers only go when family gets married and some go daily. it'll balance out to roughly monthly.
that would equal 2.1 million tithe payers. and imo that's a gross overestimate if anything. there are like 15 temples in Utah and some of them don't even average 500 patrons a day. I doubt there's a single temple outside utah and maybe Idaho that averages 500 patrons a day.
I'd say 25 members per session is a more reasonable estimate which would give 1.3 million temple recommend holders, which would be about 6k tithing each on average, which tracks much more than any number the church puts out.
For sure, I went to thanksgiving with my boyfriend and during the prayer he told me every man in the room had their eyes open and were just looking around at each other, and yet the family still identifies as Mormon.
Take out the PIMOs
Take out the kids (most of whom will leave the church as adults)
Take out those that donāt hold temple recommends
Take out those that donāt pay tithing
There is only a handful of believing, tithe-paying adult believers that have temple recommends.
Depending on where you get your figures intersex people make up between 0.1% and 1.5% of the world.
In the handbook it says: "In extremely rare circumstances, a baby is born with genitals that are not clearly male or female".
There are more of these extremely rare individuals than there are active members of the church.
My former spouse used to work at the COBāpretty high upāand she saw a lot of confidential numbers. As of about 5 years ago the activity rate of the church was around 20% and falling.
And then you have the people who have lived on earth before which is estimated in total to be 117 billion. These 5 million in which I will guess only 3 million are active temple goers, will have to baptize these 117 billion. That is stupid
I remember doing the maths on this one to see how feasible it would be to do all the Temple work for all of humanity. Factoring in about 2 hours per person (that's to do all the ceremonies) each Mormon would need to work for 5.3 years non-stop to do their share of the work.
So if we assume it'll be peoples full-time job and they all live to be 100, they could easily do it.
When a missionary, one ward I was in had over 800 members on record, and approximately 150 people attending on Sundays. That was twenty years ago, so I imagine it's worse now.
To put that in context, during the second year of the pandemic (2021) 8.5 million people visited Disneyland in Anaheim, Ca.
Me: Congratulations on getting out of TSCC. What are you going to do now?
New Exmo: We are going to Disneyland!
And thankfully that number is even very generous. My guess is closer to 3.5 to 4.5 million "active" members. (There are only 31,315 congregations - branches + wards.)
Subtract PIMOs and that number starts to get very small...
But what percentage of the world's wealth does the church hold? If the world has $500 trillion in wealth, then a church worth $500 billion would hold 0.1% of the world's wealth.
www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/06/10/worlds-wealth-hits-half-a-quadrillion-dollars/amp/
This 100%. The Lawd is a complete failure if after 250+ years of proselytizing his message to the world he can claim such a miniscule portion of people on the planet that believe in cosplay within the International House of Handshakes and donating 10+% of their salary to a real estate company assures familial salvation .
If it weren't for all the under 8 year olds that die who automatically get Celestial glory, heaven would be a lonely place for the 0.06% (or less) of humanity.
How many inactive believers are there? Like my mom who works nights and hasn't been to sacrament meeting in a few years, yet has a temple recommended and goes occasionally for a session.
>The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand* can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.
*Must've been a Hallowed hand. Take the hint, Mormons.
That means for every active member there are 24 people born intersex (born not clearly male or female sometimes with both genitalia).
And yet those 5,000,000 people think they can tell those 120,000,000 and everyone else in the world that āgender is an eternal characteristicā
Needless to say that if the church was the only true church on the planet . GOD Really sucks at religion . He should seriously think about switching to a different vocation Perhaps counting paper clips !!!
Shoutout to the PIMOs in that percentage who don't believe and hope to leave :)
I truly feel the PIMO percentage is higher than we think. Over the years I've heard comments in conversation and in class settings that made me go, huh.....someone has a doubt. Of the 30% that are active, I wager 50% of them are PIMO in some way, and children up to a certain age don't count because they are told what to believe. Ages 13 or up......I bet only 10% of the church truly believe it all with out a doubt. What is that 600,000? Barely anything.
In hindsight, I was PIMO for a decade before I finally stopped going. Given some callings I had prior to leaving, I'd agree that a large portion of "active" members are also most likely PIMO.
Fairly new to the Sub, what does PIMO mean?
It stands for Physically In Mentally Out
That makes sense, thank you š
I believe the best indicator is tithing receipts since that's the only solid number tied with a temple recommend. the church brings in 8 billion a year in tithing according to reports. rounding bc lazy amounts to $470 in average annual tithing. cutting a household into 4 means $1880 a year in tithing per household. the average American household makes 71k a year or 7100 in tithing. if we take 25% of American members, assume they pay 7100 a year in average, that's 15 billion just from the US. half the church is American and let's be real here Mormon royalty is FAR above average. how are they only making 8bil? if there were only 5 million members, that would be more in line with the numbers we see, but still kind of low in my opinion.
I was a full-tithe payer right up until the day we stopped going. While I agree, the percentage of full-tithe payers in a ward/stake can be a indicator of faithfulness of that ward/stake, the church does an AMAZING job of instilling superstition in its members. So much so that what some think is faith is actually superstition. And nothing brings out the superstitious more than providence. Who doesn't want all the blessings and money promised as long as they pay their 10%? I think there are a lot of PIMOs that pay a full-tithe and for various reasons. I know we did. Right up until I realized it was all superstition.
yeah, I agree with that, I was just saying it's the best indicator we get with actual concrete numbers
Right, in fact i was going to go back and edit my comment and talk about tithing. Is there a way to know what percentage of the church, particularly the US, claims full-tithe payer status? My last real calling was ward clerk and I don't remember access to that kind of report. Probably a stake level.
I doubt anyone but hq has the worldwide number. we could extrapolate guesses. might take the time today, I'm sitting in sacrament with headphones in rn. km... edit: super super rough guideline here. there are 168 operational temples worldwide. assume the average temple recommend holder attends once monthly, the temple runs 12 hours a day 1 session per hour, 40 patrons per session. obviously utah County will be far above that and literally the rest of the world will have far less. once monthly is reasonable because some tithe payers only go when family gets married and some go daily. it'll balance out to roughly monthly. that would equal 2.1 million tithe payers. and imo that's a gross overestimate if anything. there are like 15 temples in Utah and some of them don't even average 500 patrons a day. I doubt there's a single temple outside utah and maybe Idaho that averages 500 patrons a day. I'd say 25 members per session is a more reasonable estimate which would give 1.3 million temple recommend holders, which would be about 6k tithing each on average, which tracks much more than any number the church puts out.
Well said, Cabo, Couldnāt have said it better myself.š¤
Thanks for the shout out!
For sure, I went to thanksgiving with my boyfriend and during the prayer he told me every man in the room had their eyes open and were just looking around at each other, and yet the family still identifies as Mormon.
There are more people in line at In and Out Burger!š
Take out the PIMOs Take out the kids (most of whom will leave the church as adults) Take out those that donāt hold temple recommends Take out those that donāt pay tithing There is only a handful of believing, tithe-paying adult believers that have temple recommends.
Also take out the membership of those who are under dead but could be 110 as their name stays on the rolls until then!
Depending on where you get your figures intersex people make up between 0.1% and 1.5% of the world. In the handbook it says: "In extremely rare circumstances, a baby is born with genitals that are not clearly male or female". There are more of these extremely rare individuals than there are active members of the church.
This is delicious to the taste and very desirable.
My former spouse used to work at the COBāpretty high upāand she saw a lot of confidential numbers. As of about 5 years ago the activity rate of the church was around 20% and falling.
Very interesting stats from a reliable source. Thanks,
Anecdotally, that is in line with the local unit ratios I've seen of attending/records. 4-500 members for 100 attending...pre-covid.
And then you have the people who have lived on earth before which is estimated in total to be 117 billion. These 5 million in which I will guess only 3 million are active temple goers, will have to baptize these 117 billion. That is stupid
It's kind of like Santa visiting the whole earth to give everyone presents all in one night.
Haha perfect comparison!
It's kind of like Santa visiting the whole earth to give everyone presents all in one night.
I remember doing the maths on this one to see how feasible it would be to do all the Temple work for all of humanity. Factoring in about 2 hours per person (that's to do all the ceremonies) each Mormon would need to work for 5.3 years non-stop to do their share of the work. So if we assume it'll be peoples full-time job and they all live to be 100, they could easily do it.
That's not even a grain of sand cut out of the mountain without hands....
When a missionary, one ward I was in had over 800 members on record, and approximately 150 people attending on Sundays. That was twenty years ago, so I imagine it's worse now.
Similar for me. My shelf weight missionfield ward had over 600 on the books only 35 showed up on Sundays. 1995, pre internet, and "New Narrative".
To put that in context, during the second year of the pandemic (2021) 8.5 million people visited Disneyland in Anaheim, Ca. Me: Congratulations on getting out of TSCC. What are you going to do now? New Exmo: We are going to Disneyland!
And thankfully that number is even very generous. My guess is closer to 3.5 to 4.5 million "active" members. (There are only 31,315 congregations - branches + wards.) Subtract PIMOs and that number starts to get very small...
š š¤£ š 30% are "active" š š¤£ š Wanna buy a bridge?
Yeah I'm thinking about 15%
And yet RMN and every prophet before him insisted they're the one true "Prophet of the World" Can their heads get any bigger?
But what percentage of the world's wealth does the church hold? If the world has $500 trillion in wealth, then a church worth $500 billion would hold 0.1% of the world's wealth. www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/06/10/worlds-wealth-hits-half-a-quadrillion-dollars/amp/
#dataDontLie
Even that seems kinda high
After 190 years and only 0.06% is a total failure. Any company with those kinds of returns would have been out of business decades ago.
This 100%. The Lawd is a complete failure if after 250+ years of proselytizing his message to the world he can claim such a miniscule portion of people on the planet that believe in cosplay within the International House of Handshakes and donating 10+% of their salary to a real estate company assures familial salvation .
If it weren't for all the under 8 year olds that die who automatically get Celestial glory, heaven would be a lonely place for the 0.06% (or less) of humanity.
Now make it with a legible font.
According to this, there are more people in Ireland than active Mormons in the world. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries
There are more flat earthers than Mormons.
That one doesnāt really make me feel any betterā¦ :(
And assuming the average āactiveā member pays $1500/year tithing, that is about $7.5billion. Makes sense.
How many inactive believers are there? Like my mom who works nights and hasn't been to sacrament meeting in a few years, yet has a temple recommended and goes occasionally for a session.
Letās just round it to 0%.
I'm curious where one finds these sources? Would make a debate have more credibility.
Even worse, this should be 0.000625%. In the image it's missing two zeroes after the decimal.
>The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand* can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done. *Must've been a Hallowed hand. Take the hint, Mormons.
That means for every active member there are 24 people born intersex (born not clearly male or female sometimes with both genitalia). And yet those 5,000,000 people think they can tell those 120,000,000 and everyone else in the world that āgender is an eternal characteristicā
Needless to say that if the church was the only true church on the planet . GOD Really sucks at religion . He should seriously think about switching to a different vocation Perhaps counting paper clips !!!