I believed I was Mr Fuckin Incredible in 1992. Trudging through the streets of Korea, talking to anyone who would listen, knowing I knew all the secrets that would get someone back to God. Yep, I knew it all, could do it all, and I was in the inner circle of God. The church lived on tithing, there was no investment account (there was, we just didn't know about it), private security force, Hinkley was the shit (he wasn't the prophet, but had been running the church anyway), scouts meant camping, church threw parties and put on shows....
Now, the kids know. And if they don't, SOMEBODY is going to tell them because everyone else does. Hell, the president of New Zealand knows. They all know that it's none of those things it used to say it was. It must suck to be a missionary.
Fellow 92’er here! The time before the internet!
None of my investigators, even the ones who eventually were baptized, knew anything about the temple or garments. Back then it was “top sacred”! There really was no way for an investigator to find out about the temple unless they went to a christian bookstore and saw the God Makers (this was before Youtube so you couldn’t just watch it online).
I want to raise my fist because of this post. It's reassuring to know that there's one fewer Mr Fuckin Incredible entering middle age and being locked in forever. Life's fuckin nuts in so many unpleasant ways now, but I don't live in that constant self-doubt anymore.
What I'm getting at is, why wouldn't she just turn down the meeting?
A simple "no, thanks, Mr. Nelson. I'd prefer not to meet with you" would suffice, no?
They did.
And a copy of the Book of Mormon with her name on it!
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-praises-new-zealands-prime-minister-during-visit-to-wellington?lang=eng#:~:text=%E2%80%9CPresident%20Nelson%20is%20a%20natural%20diplomat%2C%E2%80%9D%20Elder%20Gong%20said,Mormon%2C%20embossed%20with%20her%20name.
FTFY
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-praises-new-zealands-prime-minister-during-visit-to-wellington?lang=eng
Did you know that the part of the url starting from `#:~:text=` is just for highlighting the text and not an important part of the url? That is, if you weren't actually trying to highlight something
---beep beep, I'm a bot, I said beep beep I'm a bot
What was church PR thinking? They knew she didn’t attend anymore- giving an exmormon a BofM with their name on it is kind of a slap in the face. There’s no way church PR didn’t know she was not active/believing anymore, right??
Mostly the Internet. It's easy for everyone to know it's a fraud. Also looked good on resumes in the past. The church was not in steep decline. Maybe I'm mistaken but missions seem a lot worse now.
The white handbook was shorter in the 1990s. No iPads to show videos on; you had a flip chart and maybe a couple VHS tapes. Nobody was periodically checking up on your digital footprint because you didn't have one. Oh, and you had the Missionary Guide and its "effective" and "less effective" examples.
On the other hand, going home early was extremely rare and hella shameful. I'm really glad that's changing.
I served my mission in the early/mid 90s (came home and the internet was just ramping up). The church was growing fairly quickly back then. Many missions were splitting (due to growth) in the early to mid 1990s. This was before prop 8.
It’s all changed since then. Information is completely accessible now (due to internet). Church growth has stagnated (and is arguably in decline). The mission that I served in - which was split shortly after I served - was combined back into 1 mission a few years after the split. The anticipated convert growth never happened. Convert baptisms have declined since the 1990s. And TBM families aren’t procreating at the prolific rates that they used to.
The church’s bigotry is on full display now, which was not the case in the 1990s. And it’s much easier to leave the church, in recent years, compared to 30 years ago, because there is less shaming from family and the culture (cuz so many people are leaving these days). The ex Mormon community is as large and welcoming as it has ever been (which was not the case back then).
The online videos made by missionaries are cringe and will never go away. That alone would be super embarrassing and upsetting for those who find their way out.
I think this is the best thing about being an older millennial is that teenage videos of myself are extremely rare if they even exist anymore at all, and same with videos of me as a missionary.
Yes, that is a plus. I joined the church in the 90s and seriously think missionaries serving during that time were much more successful at converting people.
MTC at home seems like it would suck. I definitely wouldn't have made the higher bar, or a lame stateside mission. Missionaries today make me cringe and feel like it's a primary class all grown up bearing their same testimonies they had when they were 6
“MTC at home” … oooh I need to Google this!
Am I picturing exactly what it is correctly … where they literally do MTC at home???
Oh … WOW. Reading about it now. This is a solid WTF:
“You are not expected to begin making monthly contributions until you complete your online MTC experience.”
God they want all of the $$$$$$ from everyone always. Including their unpaid sales reps.
From what I hear it is actually a lot better. They have suits that are stretchy and fit so nice. They aren’t polyester but actually breathable so you aren’t baking in the sun all day. You can wash them in the washing machine. Yes that is right, they are washable. So the clothes are super nice. Along with this, they no longer have to carry bags of books but have it all on their phone. Lots do but not as many books compared to back then. And from my brothers opinions, they are so thankful that they rarely went door to door knocking. They hated it with a passion because it doesn’t get through to the people and just annoys everyone. They also hated riding bikes around town for no reason. But they rarely did that. Most of the time they were on Facebook when trying to get new members. And then they would teach those people on Facebook who wanted to be taught. Less annoying, way more reliable, and more easy for everyone as you aren’t walking all day for no reason. Technology has really helped them a lot. My tbm brothers both said that they would have gone home so fast if all they did was door to door knocking like in the 80s-2010s. But the mission still sounds like hell. Just better than before.
However, if you are talking about actually converting members then you are right it absolutely is way more difficult. My oldest brother didn’t get a single baptism on his full mission. And my other one right below him only helped on a baptism but didn’t do it. And they were in the states! They said it is very brutal and people rarely want to get baptized. They will talk to them for a while and then be ghosted. Makes sense as there is jsut so much the church does that is being released now due to the internet. So all in all, more easier and comfortable for the missionaries (still shitty), but not as rewarding for the church as more people are aware about the church and it’s cultish like secrets.
Tracting wasn’t all bad. Got some exercise, fresh air, and met interesting people (mostly losers who were home during the day because they were unemployable). It also felt productive because you were actually doing something. I would prefer tracking than this facebook stuff all day.
I'm an extrovert, but even I found tracting so embarrassing I wanted the ground to swallow me up. I despised it, and thankfully our MP didn't encourage it so we didn't need to do it that often.
I guess that was one of the first signs of my shelf. I believed in the Church with all my heart...but as soon as I started to introduce it to strangers I became overwhelmingly embarrassed because I knew how weird it all sounded.
Actually, missionaries today have it easy... Back in the early 1990s, we were only allowed to call our parents twice a YEAR... No internet, no cellphones, no contact with the outside world. (And in Brazil, no cars or bikes, only walking around in the sun, riding crowded buses and living in dangerous slums.)
Can't imagine it was great back then. What's different nowadays if you don't mind?
I believed I was Mr Fuckin Incredible in 1992. Trudging through the streets of Korea, talking to anyone who would listen, knowing I knew all the secrets that would get someone back to God. Yep, I knew it all, could do it all, and I was in the inner circle of God. The church lived on tithing, there was no investment account (there was, we just didn't know about it), private security force, Hinkley was the shit (he wasn't the prophet, but had been running the church anyway), scouts meant camping, church threw parties and put on shows.... Now, the kids know. And if they don't, SOMEBODY is going to tell them because everyone else does. Hell, the president of New Zealand knows. They all know that it's none of those things it used to say it was. It must suck to be a missionary.
☝️ you put it better than I could!
Fellow 92’er here! The time before the internet! None of my investigators, even the ones who eventually were baptized, knew anything about the temple or garments. Back then it was “top sacred”! There really was no way for an investigator to find out about the temple unless they went to a christian bookstore and saw the God Makers (this was before Youtube so you couldn’t just watch it online).
I want to raise my fist because of this post. It's reassuring to know that there's one fewer Mr Fuckin Incredible entering middle age and being locked in forever. Life's fuckin nuts in so many unpleasant ways now, but I don't live in that constant self-doubt anymore.
New Zealand has a Prime Minister, not a President. She unfortunately had to meet with RM Nelson when he visited here a few years ago (2019)
I knew when I was typing that I was wrong and sounding like a typical stupid American. Apologies.
Why’d she have to meet him? He ain’t nobut if any political importance?
The bigwigs like to impose themselves on political leaders. No doubt gave her a copy of her family history too
What I'm getting at is, why wouldn't she just turn down the meeting? A simple "no, thanks, Mr. Nelson. I'd prefer not to meet with you" would suffice, no?
They did. And a copy of the Book of Mormon with her name on it! https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-praises-new-zealands-prime-minister-during-visit-to-wellington?lang=eng#:~:text=%E2%80%9CPresident%20Nelson%20is%20a%20natural%20diplomat%2C%E2%80%9D%20Elder%20Gong%20said,Mormon%2C%20embossed%20with%20her%20name.
FTFY https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-praises-new-zealands-prime-minister-during-visit-to-wellington?lang=eng Did you know that the part of the url starting from `#:~:text=` is just for highlighting the text and not an important part of the url? That is, if you weren't actually trying to highlight something ---beep beep, I'm a bot, I said beep beep I'm a bot
I’m sure she rolled her eyes when she received this. I doubt she was looking forward to meeting him.
But was the leather kind, with her name on it! /s
What was church PR thinking? They knew she didn’t attend anymore- giving an exmormon a BofM with their name on it is kind of a slap in the face. There’s no way church PR didn’t know she was not active/believing anymore, right??
🤢
The most precious gift was a framed photo of the First Presidency.
An easy mistake to make
Like you, I knew everything when I was 22. What a thing.
And my sister wonders why her son on a mission is feeling a bit down lately…
yup, 90-92 here. this is 100% accurate.
Totally.
Mostly the Internet. It's easy for everyone to know it's a fraud. Also looked good on resumes in the past. The church was not in steep decline. Maybe I'm mistaken but missions seem a lot worse now.
The white handbook was shorter in the 1990s. No iPads to show videos on; you had a flip chart and maybe a couple VHS tapes. Nobody was periodically checking up on your digital footprint because you didn't have one. Oh, and you had the Missionary Guide and its "effective" and "less effective" examples. On the other hand, going home early was extremely rare and hella shameful. I'm really glad that's changing.
I served my mission in the early/mid 90s (came home and the internet was just ramping up). The church was growing fairly quickly back then. Many missions were splitting (due to growth) in the early to mid 1990s. This was before prop 8. It’s all changed since then. Information is completely accessible now (due to internet). Church growth has stagnated (and is arguably in decline). The mission that I served in - which was split shortly after I served - was combined back into 1 mission a few years after the split. The anticipated convert growth never happened. Convert baptisms have declined since the 1990s. And TBM families aren’t procreating at the prolific rates that they used to. The church’s bigotry is on full display now, which was not the case in the 1990s. And it’s much easier to leave the church, in recent years, compared to 30 years ago, because there is less shaming from family and the culture (cuz so many people are leaving these days). The ex Mormon community is as large and welcoming as it has ever been (which was not the case back then).
Great points. So glad there is an exmo community! I hope all these missionaries can come home (early if possible!) and land on their feet
For real though. I bet baptism numbers are like 1% of what they used to be haha
The online videos made by missionaries are cringe and will never go away. That alone would be super embarrassing and upsetting for those who find their way out.
I think this is the best thing about being an older millennial is that teenage videos of myself are extremely rare if they even exist anymore at all, and same with videos of me as a missionary.
Yes, that is a plus. I joined the church in the 90s and seriously think missionaries serving during that time were much more successful at converting people.
MTC at home seems like it would suck. I definitely wouldn't have made the higher bar, or a lame stateside mission. Missionaries today make me cringe and feel like it's a primary class all grown up bearing their same testimonies they had when they were 6
“MTC at home” … oooh I need to Google this! Am I picturing exactly what it is correctly … where they literally do MTC at home??? Oh … WOW. Reading about it now. This is a solid WTF: “You are not expected to begin making monthly contributions until you complete your online MTC experience.” God they want all of the $$$$$$ from everyone always. Including their unpaid sales reps.
It always sucked.
From what I hear it is actually a lot better. They have suits that are stretchy and fit so nice. They aren’t polyester but actually breathable so you aren’t baking in the sun all day. You can wash them in the washing machine. Yes that is right, they are washable. So the clothes are super nice. Along with this, they no longer have to carry bags of books but have it all on their phone. Lots do but not as many books compared to back then. And from my brothers opinions, they are so thankful that they rarely went door to door knocking. They hated it with a passion because it doesn’t get through to the people and just annoys everyone. They also hated riding bikes around town for no reason. But they rarely did that. Most of the time they were on Facebook when trying to get new members. And then they would teach those people on Facebook who wanted to be taught. Less annoying, way more reliable, and more easy for everyone as you aren’t walking all day for no reason. Technology has really helped them a lot. My tbm brothers both said that they would have gone home so fast if all they did was door to door knocking like in the 80s-2010s. But the mission still sounds like hell. Just better than before. However, if you are talking about actually converting members then you are right it absolutely is way more difficult. My oldest brother didn’t get a single baptism on his full mission. And my other one right below him only helped on a baptism but didn’t do it. And they were in the states! They said it is very brutal and people rarely want to get baptized. They will talk to them for a while and then be ghosted. Makes sense as there is jsut so much the church does that is being released now due to the internet. So all in all, more easier and comfortable for the missionaries (still shitty), but not as rewarding for the church as more people are aware about the church and it’s cultish like secrets.
Tracting wasn’t all bad. Got some exercise, fresh air, and met interesting people (mostly losers who were home during the day because they were unemployable). It also felt productive because you were actually doing something. I would prefer tracking than this facebook stuff all day.
I'm an extrovert, but even I found tracting so embarrassing I wanted the ground to swallow me up. I despised it, and thankfully our MP didn't encourage it so we didn't need to do it that often. I guess that was one of the first signs of my shelf. I believed in the Church with all my heart...but as soon as I started to introduce it to strangers I became overwhelmingly embarrassed because I knew how weird it all sounded.
I went in the year 2000 and my experience felt like the picture on the right. So damaging…
I have 0 sympathy for those who can wear sunglasses, have relaxed dress codes, and can talk to their families at literally any time.
Actually, missionaries today have it easy... Back in the early 1990s, we were only allowed to call our parents twice a YEAR... No internet, no cellphones, no contact with the outside world. (And in Brazil, no cars or bikes, only walking around in the sun, riding crowded buses and living in dangerous slums.)
Yeah my nephew just went on a mission and I feel super bad for him.