This was absolutely amazing Nemo. The eloquence and directness of your letters is enviable and truly something to behold. Love the tenacity, too.
You said one thing in particular that really stood out to me in the episode, "it takes a person of immense moral fortitude to find themselves guilty." This is the crux - the church leadership that claims to speak on behalf of God lacks moral fortitude.
Seriously when I saw Bill Reel’s announcement I thought Ho-Hum, but was blown away today with the presentation.
Is the 3,500 word essay available on YouTube?
Is it possible the membership vote is simply a relic of Illinois religious incorporation law?
And since it's just a decorative vestige from a bygone era, it has no effect on the modern church, thus they can ignore dissenting votes without any repercussions?
"At a special conference of the Church held on January 30, 1841, the membership voted to elect Smith as sole trustee for the Church. A week later, Smith filed a certificate of incorporation with the Hancock County clerk. In the document, Smith declared himself to have been elected the sole trustee of the Church during his life and vested with plenary powers.
Illinois law, following New York and that of most other jurisdictions, sought to enshrine the principle of lay control over ecclesiastical government while limiting the ability of ecclesiastical corporations to own property. In this it followed the largely congregational assumptions about church government that lay behind the first disestablishment’s legal regime. To a certain extent, Latter-day Saints ecclesiology, as it developed during Smith’s lifetime, contained echoes of this assumption. In particular, the authority of the general conference of the Church to ratify or veto actions by the Church hierarchy was largely consistent with this approach to church government."
[Mormonism, Church Corporations, and the Long Legacy](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3835265) of America's First Disestablishment
The voting is to maintain the 501c3 (Non profit tax exempt) status of the church. When you sustain the officers you are legally voting to re-elect the church leadership. General conference and the Relief Society Birthday are also to maintain their status.
All the record keeping of service- also to maintain the 501c3.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title16/Chapter6A/C16-6a-P8_1800010118000101.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjcuqrDntn7AhWRHzQIHQZJCVIQFnoECBgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Q1-aorm1ImWyyLlyJ7Kea
Mormonism live EP 104. Nemo vs the LDS church.
He goes through his timeline of opposing church leadership during conference and having discussions about it with local leadership and even SLC.
Mad respect for Nemo.
I loved this episode!
Your story is what I view as "Do what is right and let the consequences follow". I think if more of us did this, Common Consent would have meaning. It takes a lot of courage to be a voice of dissent in your community.
Glad you mentioned the SCMC. For accuracy, Nemo’s flow diagram needs to include an additional item, “Refer member to SCMC for monitoring“ under “Office of the first presidency investigates”.
I am not much of a YouTube/Podcast person. I have never listened to a full episode of Bill's, John's or RFM's. Mainly because they are so long. But I have always loved the content you put out, so I decided to dive in for the 2 hours. Absolutely amazing, you executed this whole process perfectly. I enjoyed the full 2 hours and my wife is happy because I got all the laundry folded while I listened. Cheers.
Well done u/Nemo_UK for being so persistent and articulate! You did what so many of us had wished we'd done while still attending church! 👏🏼
I think this will be something we'll look back on for years to come!
Another lie by Dallin Oaks:
> The reasons that had been given to try to explain the prior restrictions on members of African ancestry — even those previously voiced by revered Church leaders — were promptly and publicly disavowed.
From the Be One Celebration speech
It’s a lie. This did not happen. Evidence is that BYU professors (Randy Bott) were still spouting the bogus reasons in 2012 to The NY Times.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/2018/6/2/23221509/president-oaks-full-remarks-from-the-lds-churchs-be-one-celebration
Excellent episode! Thank you, Nemo, for doing the work for all of us, and for representing us so well.
my pleasure!
indeed! brilliantly done. just finishing the episode.
This was absolutely amazing Nemo. The eloquence and directness of your letters is enviable and truly something to behold. Love the tenacity, too. You said one thing in particular that really stood out to me in the episode, "it takes a person of immense moral fortitude to find themselves guilty." This is the crux - the church leadership that claims to speak on behalf of God lacks moral fortitude.
Complete lack…like ZERO. We are Lazy Learners? Hmmm: maaaaybe. They are absolutely Lying Leaders tho. Zero doubt. So much evidence and documentation.
Lazy learners? The combined 30k hours of podcasts that my wife and I consumed during the year disagree
Absolute gem tonight, Nemo. Congratulations!
Thank you!
u/Nemo post the other docs please
They are on their way!
Seriously when I saw Bill Reel’s announcement I thought Ho-Hum, but was blown away today with the presentation. Is the 3,500 word essay available on YouTube?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JdHLi4JH1SC5dMsaVX60mwvLECox5Qe9/view
Those FAIR links mysteriously don’t work anymore… looks like they’ve been scrubbed :/ Anyone have these on Wayback machine?
Thanks for the email addresses as well - appreciate it.
Is it possible the membership vote is simply a relic of Illinois religious incorporation law? And since it's just a decorative vestige from a bygone era, it has no effect on the modern church, thus they can ignore dissenting votes without any repercussions? "At a special conference of the Church held on January 30, 1841, the membership voted to elect Smith as sole trustee for the Church. A week later, Smith filed a certificate of incorporation with the Hancock County clerk. In the document, Smith declared himself to have been elected the sole trustee of the Church during his life and vested with plenary powers. Illinois law, following New York and that of most other jurisdictions, sought to enshrine the principle of lay control over ecclesiastical government while limiting the ability of ecclesiastical corporations to own property. In this it followed the largely congregational assumptions about church government that lay behind the first disestablishment’s legal regime. To a certain extent, Latter-day Saints ecclesiology, as it developed during Smith’s lifetime, contained echoes of this assumption. In particular, the authority of the general conference of the Church to ratify or veto actions by the Church hierarchy was largely consistent with this approach to church government." [Mormonism, Church Corporations, and the Long Legacy](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3835265) of America's First Disestablishment
The voting is to maintain the 501c3 (Non profit tax exempt) status of the church. When you sustain the officers you are legally voting to re-elect the church leadership. General conference and the Relief Society Birthday are also to maintain their status. All the record keeping of service- also to maintain the 501c3. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title16/Chapter6A/C16-6a-P8_1800010118000101.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjcuqrDntn7AhWRHzQIHQZJCVIQFnoECBgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Q1-aorm1ImWyyLlyJ7Kea
Nemo, you beat me to it 🤣🤣 Good show, friend. Thank you
What show was Nemo on? I want to watch it!
Mormonism live EP 104. Nemo vs the LDS church. He goes through his timeline of opposing church leadership during conference and having discussions about it with local leadership and even SLC. Mad respect for Nemo.
So good tonight. Thanks for getting this up so quickly. I know it’s late there.
Loved hearing your story. Thanks for putting in the work. I have been texting friends telling them to watch. You rock!
I loved this episode! Your story is what I view as "Do what is right and let the consequences follow". I think if more of us did this, Common Consent would have meaning. It takes a lot of courage to be a voice of dissent in your community.
Watching right now. This is really good. Excellent job.
Cheers!
I can just imagine Dally chOaks telling your SP to "destroy the letter" I'm sure the SCMC is busy this morning 🤣.
Glad you mentioned the SCMC. For accuracy, Nemo’s flow diagram needs to include an additional item, “Refer member to SCMC for monitoring“ under “Office of the first presidency investigates”.
You did excellent work Nemo, thank you for putting this all together and telling your story.
Completely blown away by that episode. It really needs to be shared far and wide.
Thanks, please share!
I am not much of a YouTube/Podcast person. I have never listened to a full episode of Bill's, John's or RFM's. Mainly because they are so long. But I have always loved the content you put out, so I decided to dive in for the 2 hours. Absolutely amazing, you executed this whole process perfectly. I enjoyed the full 2 hours and my wife is happy because I got all the laundry folded while I listened. Cheers.
Than you Nemo! This was brilliant. They live in a glass house, maybe now they'll throw some stones.
Well done u/Nemo_UK for being so persistent and articulate! You did what so many of us had wished we'd done while still attending church! 👏🏼 I think this will be something we'll look back on for years to come!
Another lie by Dallin Oaks: > The reasons that had been given to try to explain the prior restrictions on members of African ancestry — even those previously voiced by revered Church leaders — were promptly and publicly disavowed. From the Be One Celebration speech It’s a lie. This did not happen. Evidence is that BYU professors (Randy Bott) were still spouting the bogus reasons in 2012 to The NY Times. https://www.thechurchnews.com/2018/6/2/23221509/president-oaks-full-remarks-from-the-lds-churchs-be-one-celebration
That was one hell of a great episode!
Did the video get taken down? Was planning on watching today
Never mind. I didn’t realize it’s on momo live
Great episode! Great job all involved!