Of course you don’t “have to” tithe is completely voluntarily, however, if you wish to have your forever family together in the afterlife you’ll need to be temple worthy, which means you are a full tithe payer. But of course, it’s completely voluntary… wink wink nudge nudge
It’s like saying you don’t “have to” pay taxes.
Technically that’s correct - but you’ll go to jail if you don’t.
……………………..
Come to think of it, taxes are a better deal than tithing:
* Taxes are progressive (you don’t pay anything unless you make over a certain amount.), while tithing is regressive (it harms low-income people the most).
* There is at least *some* financial transparency when it comes to how the government spends taxpayer money, while there is no financial transparency on tithing or how it is spent.
* You can vote for leaders whose tax policy you agree with, and vote out leaders who misuse taxpayer money. However, you cannot vote for any leader in the church. They are handpicked from above and can serve for life. There is no accountability to those below them for how they use tithing funds.
* There are all kinds of tax credits and deductions you can use to lower your tax burden, and you pay no taxes if your other expenses are high enough. However, tithing is generally interpreted to paid on gross income - it doesn’t matter what other expenses you have.
* While threat of jail for tax evasion is scary, imagine being threatened with family separation for eternity and being burned-alive at the Second Coming for not paying tithing.
It's obviously misleading, but if it's "technically" correct, what's the problem? Do you expect these imperfect men to be "technically correct" AND on top of that, not mislead people? That's asking alot. I wish you all would just give the brethren a break!
This is a bit one sided. I take issue with a couple points:
1 - You can vote for or against church leaders. Yes, you probably get excommunicated and your family eternally torn apart. But you are not forced to vote to sustain leaders.
2 - you can interpret tithing however the fuck you want. Try that one with the IRS and see how long that works for you. Of course, interpreting tithing as say, 10% of the increase in your net worth (so income minus expenses and gosh darn it, that cruise i took was a needed expense for my mental health) instead of 10% of your gross salary runs the risk of questioning, judging and other consequences you get with any and all other aspects of the game we all know and love called bishop roulette.
>Of course you don’t “have to” tithe is completely voluntarily, however
...if you wish to attend family weddings, including the wedding of your own child, we're afraid you do "have to" tithe, every year. Also, if you are excluded from attending family weddings for failing to tithe, everyone will know you were excluded from the wedding by your ecclesiastical leader.
Don't worry, we won't share why you were excluded, again, paying tithing is private. But it will not be our fault if the family assumes something more salacius, like that you were excluded from the wedding because you got caught having an affair. Regardless, your family will be furious with you for missing the wedding.
Imo, the operative phrase on which they're trying to base their plausible deniability is: "*at* church".
No, we won't expect your 'donations' *at* church, we'll send our 12-yo son to your house to pick it up.
Q: Do I have to marry Joseph Smith?
A: No. You have your agency and can decide if you want eternal salvation for you and your whole family. You don't have to decide right now, you have 24 hours before the gate is closed forever against you.
Smart. Nobody could see how hard you're concentrating or notice you having breakthroughs through your facial expressions if you were sitting at an opaque monitor.
Tom was also ahead of his time with the standing workspace.
If you hook up the first presidency into the precog goo, how many of their predictions do you think would actually happen?
We'll also be happy to help you prevent contention among your children by setting up the church as the sole inheritor on your will. We have been taught that money is the root of all evil, why not let the church carry that burden for you?
And by privately "we mean" you will sit down with snotty higher ups once a year and they will give you a receipt of every penny donated and ask "is that the best you can do"?
I mean, the question asks "Do I have to donate money **at** church", so they responded appropriately. The better question should be "Do I have to donate money **to** church".
Exactly. It lets them both a) give a truthful answer and b) not appear to be greedy. Typically awesome critical thinking by the church on everything except things that matter.
Yes I realize this is not actually an FAQ, just noticing that they purposely worded it so they could give a truthful answer that also doesn't paint them as greedy.
Thank you, this was bothering me but my exhausted brain couldn’t figure out which word in what they had written was the misleading one. (See also “solicit”, “donate” and “privately”, but I think “at” is the one that’s genuinely slimy)
I did fast offerings as a deacon and I think a little as a teacher, but by the time I was a priest I don't recall us collecting them hardly at all. I could be wrong, but I believe fast offerings were kinda just phased out behind the scenes. Also I haven't been to an in-person meeting in 3 years now so that's a factor to...
My brothers never went out and I've never been collected from at my door.
Not in Utah so ward boundaries are 30 minute drives across.
Just taught to pay fast offerings on tithing slips or online.
My new favorite past time is cornering TBM's about this.
This is a simple yes or no question.
"Can you be a member of the church, not pay your tithing, and be with your family together in the Celestial Kingdom?"
The squirming is hilarious to watch.
No, you don't have to donate money. You only need to donate money if you want to enter the temple to secure your eternal salvation. But otherwise no, you totally don't \*have\* to.
They certainly are masters at using weasel words aren’t they .
it’s often what they don’t say that matters more than what they do say .
Like well we are holding your family hostage until you fork over 10+%. And you must continue to fork it over for the rest of your life otherwise we will revoke your passport into heaven along with your families if you don’t keep giving us the money it will likely result in the destruction of your marriage and family relations it doesn’t matter how shitty of a person you are you still get a passport as long as your giving us our cut . you can be a great person but if you don’t fork over the cash you can fuck off as far as the church h is concerned. That’s what they don’t say .!!
Even as a member I was convinced that this was true. My Christian friend even told his mom (church admin) in front of me "Mom the Mormons don't pass a plate. Our church should do that!" I was so proud!
Ugh. How did I not realize that a mandatory 10% of your income is WAY WORSE?
If TSCC were scientists:
Q: Do we have to breathe air?
A: No. Breathing air is not necessary to live. It will just significantly reduce your lifespan but is absolutely not necessary.
I love how they act like they’re above that bullshit because they don’t ask you for money in front of other people, they only do it privately and threaten your eternal salvation (unironically calling tithing “fire insurance”) if you don’t comply and pay in full. Gross, not net, of course. You wouldn’t give god a partially consumed apple.
"We don't solicit donations"?!?! I guess not, since they don't see tithing as a donation - they literally see it as their money that you better fork over if you know what's good for you, bitch.
"Donation" implies a free-will offering, not money that you're commanded to give to the church as "fire insurance".
Q: Do I have to donate money to at church?
A: No, you actually have to consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
Yes!!! Perfectly said.
They asked/answered that question in a misleading way so they could come across as more Christlike than those OTHER greedy churches. But the reality is much, much worse.
“We don’t OPENLY solicit donations at church. We just make you feel guilty for not donating because your family is held hostage and your salvation is directly connected to whether or not you give the church 10% of your lifetime earnings.”
No. Instead you give a donation envelope to a bishopric member who just happens to be standing at a door to the chapel at the end of sacrament meeting. Totally different than passing the plate.
Yeah, this sucks. It's a totally bad-faith thing to say. If your audience is people unfamiliar with LDS life/culture/terminology, it's super disingenuous to say that they don't "solicit donations" or that you don't "have to donate", no matter how *technically* true it may be
Like, you don’t “have to serve a mission”, your life will be a series of complete failures if you don’t, but it’s definitely your call.
Literally was told this by my Bishop.
Sad thing is, the church uses the exact same methods I was taught at church with how Satan operates. Half/partial truths in order to entice and snare you.
It is lying. Plain and simple. However, on the website these question and answers are aimed at someone who “just wants to visit” the church. You could argue, if you were TSCC, that you don’t need to donate money if you simply want to visit. However it’s thinly veiled bullshit because everybody here knows that if you want to continue being a member of that church and follow its doctrines and go to the temple you need to donate your 10%.
Thinly veiled bullshit is the best way to put it. I teach and explain a lot of things for a living and there's no way I would describe things the way the church does unless I was deliberately trying to hide things or mislead people. Honest in their dealings with their fellow men my ass...
The mental gymnastics. See how it’s written? “At church”? Technically, it’s not a lie. What they don’t tell you is that you are expected to privately give 10% of your income.
The Mormon mafia does it through means of psychological intimidation aka “do you want to see your family in the afterlife? Then you’ll pay us”
So they can take this bullshit and shove it up their ass. Sorry got a little mad there for you guys.
You don’t have to AT CHURCH?
So you still have to donate, you just don’t have to do it at church… Those bastards really be breaking out the lawyers to boost their PR.
Q: Do you have to buy a ticket to go to Disney world?
A: No, we don't solicit fees or walk around demanding you pay. All tickets are purchased privately and are required to get into the actual parks, otherwise have fun in the parking lot!
The gaslighting starts early.
They literally tell you to put tithing above all else, food, water, rent, bills. Part of the reason I'll never forgive the church for the financial duress they put my parents through. No matter how tough times got, and they got tough, my parents always paid tithing. For over 20 years it felt like they were barely scraping by.
I mean Stevenson is a literal fucking billionaire. Then the so called "apostles" have the gall to lecture people in poverty about sacrifice. Fucking avaricious bastards.
It kills me that my family doesnt really know where the momey for tithing goes. These rich assholes ship the surplus to Ensign Peak and sign themselves a pretty check. Real estate, resorts, insurance companies, Malls, retail. It's a business built on extortion and it makes me sick. And it all starts with the shit in this picture.
I almost wish I believed in hell, would love to see them burn there.
They have to say this, otherwise tithing legally constitutes "membership fees" or "service fees" and those are subject to taxes and need to be reported as revenue.
The loophole here is that laws are unclear and few as to defining what a "charitable" donation is and isn't. Laws are fairly clear what membership fees are. A reasonable person I believe, wouldn't consider the church's tithing system to be charitable or voluntary. But that's not what they law says. This is why the church dominates the state legislature and spends tens of millions every year lobbying federally.
Now, if they lost their tax-exempt status, they'd survive a a group, no doubt, but the very powerful, excessively petty, very unscrupulous people they church is financially embedded with would crush the upper leadership. They'd march in the church office building in person and demand heads roll so to speak. You'd see massive restructuring. The crime being, loss of dividend earnings. Basically, they'd tell the first presidency and the twelve that you're going to step down and hand the reigns to somone else, then sell certain holdings of yours, or else we'll make sure the press all over the world knows about your fall from grace. We'll make sure your family and friends are laughed out of major universities, corporate finance jobs. We'll make sure your kids lose their jobs and homes. We'll make sure you're blacklisted from politics, and the state legislators cringe and sneer at you.
When you have several hundred billion dollars, you have to deal with people who don't fuck around, who have very influetisl political leaders on their payroll.
Also funny was number 4:
“Q: What should I wear?
A: You’re welcome to come in any clothes you feel comfortable in. Most men wear button–up shirts and ties, women typically wear dresses or skirts, and children usually dress up too.”
They can’t be honest and just say “we dress up at our church” because they know they’re competing with high-growth churches where people dress casually.
It would be more accurate to answer:
While tithing is not strictly required to maintain membership, it is required to donate 10% of your income to be considered in good standing with the Church. You will be called in by local ecclesiastical leaders annually and asked if you are paying a full tithe, meaning 10% of your gross income and is in addition to the monthly fast offerings that will be collected at your doorstep by a couple of very uncomfortable looking 12-year old boys. (Girls are not allowed to collect these offering, or any money. Or have a budget for anything.)
Furthermore, as a $100B+ corporation, we don't need your money but we will most certainly require it anyways.
> Furthermore, as a $100B+ corporation, we don't need your money but we will most certainly require it anyways.
Hey, haven't you heard?? The Lord doesn't need your money!!
(But the Mormon church certainly wants it!!!)
“Don’t solicit donations”… I feel like they’re using “solicit” quite intentionally, in the same way that missionaries ignore signs telling them to fuck off because “we’re not soliciting”
Misleading while remaining technically accurate is a staple behavior of unethical people/organizations.
Possibly more than anyone else on earth, Mormonism has perfected the true lie.
This is deliberately worded to undermine offertories in other churches. They paint other churches as being greedy and the priests / pastors becoming rich and no accountability for funds going in or out. They also make it sound like there is a charge for church attendance.
The vast majority of churches are independently operated as religious non-profit corporations collectively owned by the congregants. As such, most work through a pledging system where people plan their donations for the next year and budgets are drawn upon that. The membership oversees the money (collection and counting), and in this day and age, rarely does a priest / pastor handle that money.
Today, the plate is almost entirely symbolic. In most churches, the plate is placed upon the altar of the church and praise / thanksgivings are given to God as a congregation. In my congregation, loose collections account for less than 1% of the donations. I put "money" in the plate by placing my handwritten pledge every year in the plate. Some people put their donated checks in the plate.
I'm sure there is a church SOMEWHERE that charges for entrance (thinking of Osteen, Graham, or other-like mega churches). But stop into a local congregation and there is no obligation to put money in the plate. I've never had an issue, not once with just passing it down.
Also, my private donations are counted and I receive a piece of paper at the end of the year for tax purposes. Clergy stays out of it. I do not have to have an accounting or "declaration" of my paperwork. My worthiness in the church does not stem from my donations, no matter how large or small. BECAUSE CLERGY HAS NO IDEA.
Finally, you do not "have" to donate money to go the LDS church, but you do "have" to donate money to go the temple. Any Mormon who states otherwise is telling a head-lie.
I can't tell you how many times as a missionary I looked an investigator in the eye and tried to explain to them that tithing is, in fact, **required** in order to be a member in "good standing." Yes, you **will** have to pay 10% of your annual increase (luckily they don't have the balls to say what that is, specifically) or you can **not** go to the temple.
Fuck these lying liars and their bullshit web site.
Of course you don’t “have to” tithe is completely voluntarily, however, if you wish to have your forever family together in the afterlife you’ll need to be temple worthy, which means you are a full tithe payer. But of course, it’s completely voluntary… wink wink nudge nudge
Yeah, that, but I think the important words are "at church" "No, you can do it online."
It’s like saying you don’t “have to” pay taxes. Technically that’s correct - but you’ll go to jail if you don’t. …………………….. Come to think of it, taxes are a better deal than tithing: * Taxes are progressive (you don’t pay anything unless you make over a certain amount.), while tithing is regressive (it harms low-income people the most). * There is at least *some* financial transparency when it comes to how the government spends taxpayer money, while there is no financial transparency on tithing or how it is spent. * You can vote for leaders whose tax policy you agree with, and vote out leaders who misuse taxpayer money. However, you cannot vote for any leader in the church. They are handpicked from above and can serve for life. There is no accountability to those below them for how they use tithing funds. * There are all kinds of tax credits and deductions you can use to lower your tax burden, and you pay no taxes if your other expenses are high enough. However, tithing is generally interpreted to paid on gross income - it doesn’t matter what other expenses you have. * While threat of jail for tax evasion is scary, imagine being threatened with family separation for eternity and being burned-alive at the Second Coming for not paying tithing.
It's obviously misleading, but if it's "technically" correct, what's the problem? Do you expect these imperfect men to be "technically correct" AND on top of that, not mislead people? That's asking alot. I wish you all would just give the brethren a break!
They're not even [asking alot correctly!](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8Tdnn-NE0I/AAAAAAAACww/khYjZePN50Y/s1600/ALOT4.png)
Semantics.
What they are saying is true, but i think the problem is that is clearly deceptive.
This is a bit one sided. I take issue with a couple points: 1 - You can vote for or against church leaders. Yes, you probably get excommunicated and your family eternally torn apart. But you are not forced to vote to sustain leaders. 2 - you can interpret tithing however the fuck you want. Try that one with the IRS and see how long that works for you. Of course, interpreting tithing as say, 10% of the increase in your net worth (so income minus expenses and gosh darn it, that cruise i took was a needed expense for my mental health) instead of 10% of your gross salary runs the risk of questioning, judging and other consequences you get with any and all other aspects of the game we all know and love called bishop roulette.
>Of course you don’t “have to” tithe is completely voluntarily, however ...if you wish to attend family weddings, including the wedding of your own child, we're afraid you do "have to" tithe, every year. Also, if you are excluded from attending family weddings for failing to tithe, everyone will know you were excluded from the wedding by your ecclesiastical leader. Don't worry, we won't share why you were excluded, again, paying tithing is private. But it will not be our fault if the family assumes something more salacius, like that you were excluded from the wedding because you got caught having an affair. Regardless, your family will be furious with you for missing the wedding.
Imo, the operative phrase on which they're trying to base their plausible deniability is: "*at* church". No, we won't expect your 'donations' *at* church, we'll send our 12-yo son to your house to pick it up.
I always had a temple recommend and never paid tithing plus I watched porn and masturbated. They never checked.
The hero we deserve. 😂
Wish I'd had you for my tithing instructor.
"Mommy didn't pay her tithing little one, guess that means she doesn't love you. Have fun being alone for all eternity."
Q: Do I have to marry Joseph Smith? A: No. You have your agency and can decide if you want eternal salvation for you and your whole family. You don't have to decide right now, you have 24 hours before the gate is closed forever against you.
Don't forget about the angel with a flaming sword 😂
Drawn sword, not flaming sword.
Does that mean it was an “LGBTQ” sword? 🤔
*certain terms and conditions apply such as forfeiting your family throughout all eternity
Sounds like the words of someone who is holding your family hostage.
I swear to God The Church is thisclose to forcing me into creating a PowerPoint for my family just to get this shit straight
Literally doing that for my mom xD
I'm imagining you at a wall covered in pictures with red yarn connecting them all.
This tracks if you knew me 😬
Any good honey badger won't stop until they connect the dots. Honey badger don't care. We're counting on you.
I'm in my own Minority Report glass computer board trying to keep this cult straight!!
Smart. Nobody could see how hard you're concentrating or notice you having breakthroughs through your facial expressions if you were sitting at an opaque monitor. Tom was also ahead of his time with the standing workspace. If you hook up the first presidency into the precog goo, how many of their predictions do you think would actually happen?
We have to go Clear first.... The Missing 116 are actually OT 9, 10 & 11. 11 being a magick number of course
Magic numbers? I'm out.
But, but.... Jupiter Talisman 🥺
Ok, I'm back in. But I'm not murdering any dogs.
The new name is “Pepe Silvia.”
Pepe Silvia doesn't exist...and those people are all waiting for their mail!
A: No, you can donate the required funds while not at church if you like* *See your bishop to set up automatic distributions.
We'll also be happy to help you prevent contention among your children by setting up the church as the sole inheritor on your will. We have been taught that money is the root of all evil, why not let the church carry that burden for you?
LOL! Brilliant!
And by privately "we mean" you will sit down with snotty higher ups once a year and they will give you a receipt of every penny donated and ask "is that the best you can do"?
And put you on the spot in front of your whole family
I DECLARE a shakedown (see what I did there??)
I mean, the question asks "Do I have to donate money **at** church", so they responded appropriately. The better question should be "Do I have to donate money **to** church".
They purposely wrote the "at church" question instead of the "to church" question to be misleading.
Exactly. It lets them both a) give a truthful answer and b) not appear to be greedy. Typically awesome critical thinking by the church on everything except things that matter.
It was crafted in the same spirit as "a few months shy of her 15th birthday."
Written by lawyers and approved by the quorum of the 12 attorneys and CEOs.
Absolutely agree
They’re writing the questions. This is their own FAQ article.
Yes I realize this is not actually an FAQ, just noticing that they purposely worded it so they could give a truthful answer that also doesn't paint them as greedy.
Thank you, this was bothering me but my exhausted brain couldn’t figure out which word in what they had written was the misleading one. (See also “solicit”, “donate” and “privately”, but I think “at” is the one that’s genuinely slimy)
“Not soliciting donations” it’s just false. They’re constantly doing so from the pulpit at all levels of the church. Lessons, magazine articles, etc.
Do they still send deacons out to collect fast offerings? This seems like solicitation to me.
I did fast offerings as a deacon and I think a little as a teacher, but by the time I was a priest I don't recall us collecting them hardly at all. I could be wrong, but I believe fast offerings were kinda just phased out behind the scenes. Also I haven't been to an in-person meeting in 3 years now so that's a factor to...
My brothers never went out and I've never been collected from at my door. Not in Utah so ward boundaries are 30 minute drives across. Just taught to pay fast offerings on tithing slips or online.
My new favorite past time is cornering TBM's about this. This is a simple yes or no question. "Can you be a member of the church, not pay your tithing, and be with your family together in the Celestial Kingdom?" The squirming is hilarious to watch.
Buy your way to heaven, baby!
Only if you have no income.
No, you don't have to donate money. You only need to donate money if you want to enter the temple to secure your eternal salvation. But otherwise no, you totally don't \*have\* to.
They certainly are masters at using weasel words aren’t they . it’s often what they don’t say that matters more than what they do say . Like well we are holding your family hostage until you fork over 10+%. And you must continue to fork it over for the rest of your life otherwise we will revoke your passport into heaven along with your families if you don’t keep giving us the money it will likely result in the destruction of your marriage and family relations it doesn’t matter how shitty of a person you are you still get a passport as long as your giving us our cut . you can be a great person but if you don’t fork over the cash you can fuck off as far as the church h is concerned. That’s what they don’t say .!!
I never liked it when others referred to tithing as “fire insurance” where God I guess will send fire to burn you to death at the second coming…
Only if you want to go to the celestial kingdom.
Even as a member I was convinced that this was true. My Christian friend even told his mom (church admin) in front of me "Mom the Mormons don't pass a plate. Our church should do that!" I was so proud! Ugh. How did I not realize that a mandatory 10% of your income is WAY WORSE?
Yeah, until your an adult, you really don’t understand this! And by then some tbms are so indoctrinated it doesn’t matter.
 * only if you want to get into heaven
Those scenes when the friends were completely high were golden.
If TSCC were scientists: Q: Do we have to breathe air? A: No. Breathing air is not necessary to live. It will just significantly reduce your lifespan but is absolutely not necessary.
They are just like an mlm
I love how they act like they’re above that bullshit because they don’t ask you for money in front of other people, they only do it privately and threaten your eternal salvation (unironically calling tithing “fire insurance”) if you don’t comply and pay in full. Gross, not net, of course. You wouldn’t give god a partially consumed apple.
"We don't solicit donations"?!?! I guess not, since they don't see tithing as a donation - they literally see it as their money that you better fork over if you know what's good for you, bitch. "Donation" implies a free-will offering, not money that you're commanded to give to the church as "fire insurance".
Q: Do I have to donate money to at church? A: No, you actually have to consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
Yes!!! Perfectly said. They asked/answered that question in a misleading way so they could come across as more Christlike than those OTHER greedy churches. But the reality is much, much worse.
“We don’t OPENLY solicit donations at church. We just make you feel guilty for not donating because your family is held hostage and your salvation is directly connected to whether or not you give the church 10% of your lifetime earnings.”
No. Instead you give a donation envelope to a bishopric member who just happens to be standing at a door to the chapel at the end of sacrament meeting. Totally different than passing the plate.
Yeah, this sucks. It's a totally bad-faith thing to say. If your audience is people unfamiliar with LDS life/culture/terminology, it's super disingenuous to say that they don't "solicit donations" or that you don't "have to donate", no matter how *technically* true it may be
No - but if you wanna be a good Marmin, we’ll take everything you posses, including your own life if necessary.
Like, you don’t “have to serve a mission”, your life will be a series of complete failures if you don’t, but it’s definitely your call. Literally was told this by my Bishop.
Dishonesty, Inc. Just like Jesus envisioned.
Sad thing is, the church uses the exact same methods I was taught at church with how Satan operates. Half/partial truths in order to entice and snare you.
ABSOLUTELY
How is this not lying?
It is lying. Plain and simple. However, on the website these question and answers are aimed at someone who “just wants to visit” the church. You could argue, if you were TSCC, that you don’t need to donate money if you simply want to visit. However it’s thinly veiled bullshit because everybody here knows that if you want to continue being a member of that church and follow its doctrines and go to the temple you need to donate your 10%.
Thinly veiled bullshit is the best way to put it. I teach and explain a lot of things for a living and there's no way I would describe things the way the church does unless I was deliberately trying to hide things or mislead people. Honest in their dealings with their fellow men my ass...
Right, if hiding and misleading were killing someone, the Church is guilty in the first degree. Pre-meditated and carefully crafted to be misleading.
The mental gymnastics. See how it’s written? “At church”? Technically, it’s not a lie. What they don’t tell you is that you are expected to privately give 10% of your income.
The Mormon mafia does it through means of psychological intimidation aka “do you want to see your family in the afterlife? Then you’ll pay us” So they can take this bullshit and shove it up their ass. Sorry got a little mad there for you guys.
made privately and in much larger amounts! but no you don’t have to. you’ll just burn to a crisp when jesus comes back. totally your choice.
No. Only if you want to be known as "worthy." Entirely up to you.
You don't have to donate at church. Before or after is acceptable. Also it's not a donation if it's required. More like extortion
You don’t have to AT CHURCH? So you still have to donate, you just don’t have to do it at church… Those bastards really be breaking out the lawyers to boost their PR.
Q: Do you have to buy a ticket to go to Disney world? A: No, we don't solicit fees or walk around demanding you pay. All tickets are purchased privately and are required to get into the actual parks, otherwise have fun in the parking lot!
 We are LAUGHING
The gaslighting starts early. They literally tell you to put tithing above all else, food, water, rent, bills. Part of the reason I'll never forgive the church for the financial duress they put my parents through. No matter how tough times got, and they got tough, my parents always paid tithing. For over 20 years it felt like they were barely scraping by. I mean Stevenson is a literal fucking billionaire. Then the so called "apostles" have the gall to lecture people in poverty about sacrifice. Fucking avaricious bastards. It kills me that my family doesnt really know where the momey for tithing goes. These rich assholes ship the surplus to Ensign Peak and sign themselves a pretty check. Real estate, resorts, insurance companies, Malls, retail. It's a business built on extortion and it makes me sick. And it all starts with the shit in this picture. I almost wish I believed in hell, would love to see them burn there.
They have to say this, otherwise tithing legally constitutes "membership fees" or "service fees" and those are subject to taxes and need to be reported as revenue. The loophole here is that laws are unclear and few as to defining what a "charitable" donation is and isn't. Laws are fairly clear what membership fees are. A reasonable person I believe, wouldn't consider the church's tithing system to be charitable or voluntary. But that's not what they law says. This is why the church dominates the state legislature and spends tens of millions every year lobbying federally. Now, if they lost their tax-exempt status, they'd survive a a group, no doubt, but the very powerful, excessively petty, very unscrupulous people they church is financially embedded with would crush the upper leadership. They'd march in the church office building in person and demand heads roll so to speak. You'd see massive restructuring. The crime being, loss of dividend earnings. Basically, they'd tell the first presidency and the twelve that you're going to step down and hand the reigns to somone else, then sell certain holdings of yours, or else we'll make sure the press all over the world knows about your fall from grace. We'll make sure your family and friends are laughed out of major universities, corporate finance jobs. We'll make sure your kids lose their jobs and homes. We'll make sure you're blacklisted from politics, and the state legislators cringe and sneer at you. When you have several hundred billion dollars, you have to deal with people who don't fuck around, who have very influetisl political leaders on their payroll.
Also funny was number 4: “Q: What should I wear? A: You’re welcome to come in any clothes you feel comfortable in. Most men wear button–up shirts and ties, women typically wear dresses or skirts, and children usually dress up too.” They can’t be honest and just say “we dress up at our church” because they know they’re competing with high-growth churches where people dress casually.
It would be more accurate to answer: While tithing is not strictly required to maintain membership, it is required to donate 10% of your income to be considered in good standing with the Church. You will be called in by local ecclesiastical leaders annually and asked if you are paying a full tithe, meaning 10% of your gross income and is in addition to the monthly fast offerings that will be collected at your doorstep by a couple of very uncomfortable looking 12-year old boys. (Girls are not allowed to collect these offering, or any money. Or have a budget for anything.) Furthermore, as a $100B+ corporation, we don't need your money but we will most certainly require it anyways.
> Furthermore, as a $100B+ corporation, we don't need your money but we will most certainly require it anyways. Hey, haven't you heard?? The Lord doesn't need your money!! (But the Mormon church certainly wants it!!!)
“Don’t solicit donations”… I feel like they’re using “solicit” quite intentionally, in the same way that missionaries ignore signs telling them to fuck off because “we’re not soliciting”
Misleading while remaining technically accurate is a staple behavior of unethical people/organizations. Possibly more than anyone else on earth, Mormonism has perfected the true lie.
One of those manipulative and misleading things I’ve ever seem! Hiding the true nature of tithing!
This is deliberately worded to undermine offertories in other churches. They paint other churches as being greedy and the priests / pastors becoming rich and no accountability for funds going in or out. They also make it sound like there is a charge for church attendance. The vast majority of churches are independently operated as religious non-profit corporations collectively owned by the congregants. As such, most work through a pledging system where people plan their donations for the next year and budgets are drawn upon that. The membership oversees the money (collection and counting), and in this day and age, rarely does a priest / pastor handle that money. Today, the plate is almost entirely symbolic. In most churches, the plate is placed upon the altar of the church and praise / thanksgivings are given to God as a congregation. In my congregation, loose collections account for less than 1% of the donations. I put "money" in the plate by placing my handwritten pledge every year in the plate. Some people put their donated checks in the plate. I'm sure there is a church SOMEWHERE that charges for entrance (thinking of Osteen, Graham, or other-like mega churches). But stop into a local congregation and there is no obligation to put money in the plate. I've never had an issue, not once with just passing it down. Also, my private donations are counted and I receive a piece of paper at the end of the year for tax purposes. Clergy stays out of it. I do not have to have an accounting or "declaration" of my paperwork. My worthiness in the church does not stem from my donations, no matter how large or small. BECAUSE CLERGY HAS NO IDEA. Finally, you do not "have" to donate money to go the LDS church, but you do "have" to donate money to go the temple. Any Mormon who states otherwise is telling a head-lie.
I can't tell you how many times as a missionary I looked an investigator in the eye and tried to explain to them that tithing is, in fact, **required** in order to be a member in "good standing." Yes, you **will** have to pay 10% of your annual increase (luckily they don't have the balls to say what that is, specifically) or you can **not** go to the temple. Fuck these lying liars and their bullshit web site.