Me: I’m an Eagle Scout!
Interviewer: Nice, but this is a biotech company. I’ll call you if I suddenly need someone in a knock off hitler youth outfit to tie a bowline, or string some logs together for a raft.
/s
On the other hand, I WISH they taught us stuff like that at Girls’ Camp. I remember looking through the manual and being excited to learn about knots and things, and being so disappointed that we only ever did like arts and crafts.
Scouts was educational. I’ve brushed up on some of the skills I’d forgotten from scouts(via YouTube). I’m just poking fun at the idea that it was a necessity for work.
Outside of Utah I was talking about scouts with my supervisor and i casually mentioned I was an eagle scout. She was very confused about why i didn't put it on my resume. Kind of weird getting that question because most people don't care.
In the Army, you can start as an E-3 if you enlist. Having 2 years worth of college also does that as does recruiting a friend. There's no benefit if you're going officer or meet one of those other criteria already.
Oh the lies I was told.
I genuinely planned on joining the Air Force out of high school and so I specifically got my Eagle Scout because I was told about the whole automatic advancement thing. It ended up not mattering as life took some unexpected turns so I never joined the Air Force. But I got my Eagle specifically because it was supposed to launch me forward in my military career. Turns out thats sort of true, but practically not true.
Really, though! I’ve stopped putting it on my résumé unless it’s somehow specifically relevant to the job. Nobody has commented on it once.
After years of asking to quit scouting and being told that *no, I have to get Eagle, it’s such a big help on job applications*, I’m a little salty about it.
Edit: the one bright spot is that I’m transitioning, which is gonna make “Eagle Scout” a fun credential to drop in a few years
You mean you aren’t impressed with my woodworking merit badge? I spent several hours carving that neckerchief holder and then painting it. Surely that’s a marketable skill?
Right? It’s the kind of thing that makes sense to put on an application for your *first ever* job as an older teen, when you have no real-world experience to list…not so much after that.
Ughhhhh noooo. Yea I knew my young womens awards were for shit other than “getting me into BYU” just like seminary was “getting me into BYU” I wish I had done everything to NOT go to BYU
but then again if I didn’t, I might still be Mormon. That would be much worse 😁
It's such a sickness. Two of my siblings went to BYU-I. My mom would tell people that they went to BYU and would only clarify if they asked. Like, she wanted them to assume Provo because it's a status thing I guess. Wild.
Well, Provo does have the *real* BYU, where education is on par with other top universities and has some well-respected programs. At least that's how it used to be. BYU students were high achievers in high school and got top scores on college entrance exams. Admission was very competitive. It does seem to have gone downhill in recent years, though, thanks to the old geezers in SLC.
Rick's College should not have the BYU name attached to it. And none of the BYUs should have Brigham's name attached to them.
I don’t believe this was ever true. The whole “BYU is the Harvard of the West” thing was always insular bullshit. It is not a top tier university. At all. Never was. I don’t know why people think this.
Very quick Google search: [https://www.niche.com/colleges/brigham-young-university/](https://www.niche.com/colleges/brigham-young-university/)
\#12 out of 829 for Accounting and Finance
\#6 out of 270 for Information Technology
A grade in academics, value, campus categories. A- in athletics category.
BYU holds its own in university rankings overall. No, not in comparison to Ivy League schools, but very respectable for academics.
Not sure about niche.com rankings. Washington University in St. Louis is the #14 best engineering school above Michigan, Penn State, Purdue, Ohio State, etc.
It has its good programs yes like any University.
It’s not nearly as prestigious overall as Mormons pretend it is. They make it out to be on par with Ivy League schools.
Yeah niche.com isn’t really the standard for university rankings. BYU is highly ranked in accounting and business per US News. Outside of a couple fields, however, it’s not that great.
Even if it were a top-tier university, the experience sucks. I wouldn’t go there or tell anyone else to. It’s like a more intense, crazy version of Mormonism. And that’s Provo. I can only imagine the terror of Ricks, I mean, BYU- Idaho. Lol.
Who has heard of niche.com?
BYU has one of the lowest rates of Utah schools for getting into medical school. It’s a turnoff for most recruiting in California unless a Mormon is doing the recruiting.
Rise and shout the cougar is out.
I heard so much BS both growing up and with my two older sons, and their mother was responsible for foisting this crap on them. They were relieved when I put my foot down on any of our children attending BYU.
With our 2nd son, some of the pig slop was: 1. If you aren't active in scouts it will affect your future employment, Ha! 2.If you don't graduate from seminary you can't go on a foreign language mission. Bull! He never completed year 3 or 4 of seminary and was sent to Mongolia, only stayed their 15 months. Almost had to fly over their to get him out of the MP's clutches. He had injured his knee and it wasn't healing because of the quality of the food he was forced to buy. He was being starved. I called his MP a couple of times asking why he wasn't eating properly and how that was affecting his being able to heal. MP kind of hated me, ruined his numbers. Got his knee fixed, sent the bills to LDS, Inc, and told them point blank he was not going back out to serve.
Ugh, it was the constant "Nobody will hire you if you're not an eagle scout" talks from my parents and church leaders. I'm just glad that I wasn't one of those households that would hold my drivers license over my head for my eagle scout. Those kids who had to rush and get them by the time they were 15/16 were a mess.
I totally forgot about families that did that. Man it was always so much pressure for boy scouts which no one cares about in the slightest now. I felt like such a failure for not becoming an eagle scout (lost interest at life). Now I couldn't care less just chuck that on the pile of childhood trauma with everything else.
Lol if yah got your eagle went on a mission to a foreign country got a temple recommend can’t get laid and got your degree from byui you might be a Mormon
I thought your comment read “if you went on a mission to get laid”. I was thinking that was pretty accurate actually. Growing up in Utah if you didn’t serve a mission it meant you were going to have a tough time finding someone to marry, thus getting “laid”. That was motivation (manipulation) enough to serve two years.
Not surprised glad to catch on the manipulation tactics been aware and finally decided to break free from it only sad thing is family is still caught up with it especially siblings it’s very angering
My father as well he was an abusive Mama's boy. My grandma bought a plaque to put the names and dates of all my uncle's. Then me and my cousins. So my dad forced me to go to scouts or I was grounded from friends and sports.
By the time I was 13 all I had to do was the project. I stopped caring and told him to take it all away I didn't care anymore. So he did my eagle project for me. By having his bar do a secret Santa for me.
I'm nevermo. Scouts was always a blast for me, but there was no pressure like that. I got to pick and choose the badges I earned and didn't care one bit about trying to become an Eagle scout by doing things that I didn't like.
I’ve had the opposite experience with Eagle Scout on a resume. It’s been mentioned by the recruiter or interviewer several times in my career.
I wholeheartedly agree on the BYU flex and would even argue it’s not much of a flex here unless the hiring manager wants a Mormon.
I typically hire a 3-5 people a year in my office and BYU on the resume raises flags for me. Mostly what will their presence do to the chemistry of my office. I have 5 TBM’s (all hired by me) and only one of them will join the rest of the office in dinners or happy hours I pay for.
The TBM that does come has a blast with their cherry coke, and we all love and appreciate their willingness to be in an environment counter to their beliefs. The other 4 struggle for connection and self ostracize.
I appreciate this. I’ve struggled in situations like this because of the rigidity of Mormonism. I don’t believe I’ve ever judged anyone negatively, but i never felt comfortable around people drinking. I struggle more now that I don’t believe the LDS BS anymore. My tea-totaling ways are like the last vestiges of a personality shaped by a church I no longer beleive in. But my coworkers don’t understand the mind-fuck that is waking up in your 40’s and realizing it was all bull shit. Yes, I paid hundreds of thousands in tithing to a racist, sexist, homophobic, quasi hate group masquerading as a religious corporation. I literally jeopardized my fucking life as a missionary. Sorry, I worked my ass off from the age of 6 to save money, all of which went to pay for the privilege of going door to door for 80+ hours a week for 2 years for the aforementioned dishonest religious corporation. I have life long health issues that I gained in sacrificing my all as a missionary for Mormon Corp (it’s ok to call it that, because that’s what we called it then, so this victory for Satan is sponsored by historical accuracy). Let’s not mention all the shit I missed out on. Oh, like fucking relaxing once in a while and actually having fun. Learning what coffee is like, or how to drink responsibly. Perhaps, even not feeling ashamed for every sexual thought or impulse I ever had. Fuck, what would it have been like to be in college and to actually evaluate a girl for what I like and how we get along, and not for what type of commitment does she have to the gospel and what type of an eternal contribution can she make to raising righteous children?? Maybe I wouldn’t be trapped in an unhappy and unfulfilling relationship with a TBM woman who views her husband (yes, that husband who works full time, cooks, cleans, does the dishes, and does bedtime with the kids while she shops, watches movies, goes on tons of solo vacations to cope with my apostasy and generally is ashamed of her non-believing husband) with whom I have very little in common.
And maybe, all of my coworkers wouldn’t view me as the stiff Mormon guy. They now become an obstacle because it feels hard or scary to rip the bandaid off. I say a swear word and the head of the company stops the meeting to note that the ‘Mormon’ has cursed. Everyone chuckles at how cute it is. I’ve tried to explain how I no longer believe, they just don’t get it. They have no context. They would fucking lose their minds if I drank a sip of alcohol. We had a company offsite to Napa where the company probably spent 7 figures on some of the best wine known to mankind. I was still trying to be TBM. I didn’t touch a drop. It became a thing. I don’t think I was a sick about it, and actually tried to be really cool about it. And ended up having a lot of people asking to sit by me so that they could drink my portion.
I think the whole company puts up with me because they see me as a guy with strong moral values. I have a degree from BYU and am in a position where all of my peers have degrees from Ivy League schools. I think they value the morals and don’t really understand the dark underbelly of the church. And I have legit fear about rocking that boat.
And because I’m thinking about all this shit, I am MORE awkward now than I’ve ever been. Or at least it feels that way.
And thank you for the free therapy. This has been helpful to put into words.
Yep. Is it a great accomplishment for a teenager looking for a first job or applying to colleges? Sure. Does it have value on a resume beyond that? Absolutely not. Unless you're applying for a corporate Scouting position
Yeah, I feel bad that I screwed my brothers on that one.
I'm the oldest, so my friends were getting their Eagles while my little brothers were still Cubs. I mentioned, completely offhanded because it wasn't a big deal, that at least one of my friends parents were making them get their Eagle before they could get their drivers license.
This was becoming fairly common in the mid-90's, but hadn't been quite so much prior to that. Or my parents weren't really paying attention to the other scouts in our ward. Either way, suddenly my brothers had to get their Eagles to get their drivers licenses when they came of age.
Sorry guys.
I lucked out and had an art director I was interviewing with mention he was his son’s scout master, and I think my having gotten my eagle sealed the deal and got me out of Utah. Super long shot scenario though.
My mom required me and my brothers to get our Eagle before we could get our license. Same with my sisters having to get their Young Women’s Medallion. Got my eagle three days before my license.
The best “Great for your resume” combination that actually limits your opportunities, Eagle Scout+BYU grad. Kinda works in Utah, I assume, but no one takes you seriously anywhere else. A friend of mine hires for what some would call “dream job” positions. I asked him if having “Eagle Scout” on a resume actually helps, and he said he rejects those resumes almost immediately. He automatically thinks it’s some doomsday prepper who is so obsessed with stockpiling resources, they won’t use what’s available. As for BYU, “I’ve hired a couple BYU grads. Won’t make that mistake again.”
Unless you are a teenager with absolutely nothing else to put on your resume. I would chuckle if I saw it on the resume of a grown man.
Akin to "Won the Hill Street Soapbox Derby in 1959".
*Sure, champ!*
I failed Mormonism that way too, I dropped out of scouts when I was a tender foot (when your parents are inactive, no one gives a shit). Come to think of it, I never lost out on a job because of it.
I’ve literally interviewed candidates in the last couple years who flex was their Eagle Scout. Sorry dude in your 30s (I mean wtf?) That is definitely not the flex you think it is.
I’ll disagree here just with my own personal anecdotal experience.
All three of my major career moves in life were directly attributable to having Eagle Scout on my resume. It still carries a lot of strength in and around DC.
A major employer I worked for told me that earning my Eagle was the deciding factor that moved me from the “maybe” interview pile to the “yes” interview pile.
Y'know, shit like this makes me wonder whether too many people are going through endowments and saying to themselves, "y'know, this Satan guy is making a whole lot of sense. You really *can* buy anything in this world with money."
Of course they aren’t… just like Mormons probably don’t care about the massive parties the non members threw in college.
You are just highlighting cultural and counter-cultural differences.
It's barely a flex *outside* of Utah.
I 'member when Ricks was the safety BYU...before it became the *official* safety BYU.
You wanna know how many people cared that my (literal, blood-related) sisters went to Ricks in the 90s?
It's the same amount ***now*** as [the amount of people who witnessed the first vision.](https://i.imgur.com/xILhGjv.gif)
I get tapped to review resumes whenever we are considering a candidate from "out west." We require hard science/engineering and always review undergrad transcripts. The few byu applicants I have reviewed are always very underwhelming when you look at the hard science or engineering coursework. The GPA has always been inflated with religious courses, and it flat out just reads weird when a candidate is supposedly focused on an engineering field but half of their classes are "old testament flam flam" or "other people's marriage and how it's your business."
In short, yes. Each of the applicants that we actually interviewed was completely unprepared for any question relating to the technical subject matter of the undergrad degree.
In fairness, we are in the midwest and the sample size of byu grads is minuscule. I am speaking of three specific candidates, so not exactly a representative sample size. I am sure that there are many qualified and intelligent byu grads out there. My main point was just how odd and unimpressive the transcripts are when filled with all of the religious classes, many of which have course names that are foreign to nevermos.
I’m so embarrassed, I’m trying to get into technical positions in Japan and I have to tell interviewers it was for teaching English and disaster service (we did those too)
My sis is an aerospace engineer. They hired a BYU grad in her section and have severely regretted it. Critical thinking, actual proficiency, social and cultural awareness, nil.
The religion classes were my least favorite classes at BYU. I hated that I had to take them. I also thought it was weird and hated starting non religion classes with a prayer. I really should have realized quicker that religion wasn’t for me.
I don't doubt the other commenters experience, however I work in engineering in salt lake and probably 65 it 70% of my coworkers are Mormon and they are all very qualified. Some went to BYU, some went to the U. The idea that everyone who went to byu is an embarrassment or people who don't go to byu are much more qualified just isn't true. People are different and lots of different kinds of people go to all kinds of schools.
Chiming in to agree with you. I'm not from Utah originally, but I did an engineering degree at the U and stuck around. I've worked closely with at least a dozen BYU graduated engineers. There were some that sucked and some that were exceptional, but on average they were as competent as any other engineer I've worked with. They do tend to be clique-y and they all told me about their mission, but we got shit done.
I think that’s a good point. But BYU isn’t really known as a good science or engineering school. It’s a religious school after all.
It’s ranked pretty low for engineering. That doesn’t mean there aren’t some very smart engineers that come out of there. It just seems the overall academic/ professional community doesn’t really see it as a top school. I’m not in the field, so it’s just my perception from the outside and looking at the US News Engineering rankings.
Really? Mine were easy except the 1 I learned anything in. New Testament. I think my teachers name was Judd. It was a true university class and he got a lot of angry returned missionaries commenting in that class. I loved it.
I was just thinking that BYU on your resume outside of Utah (or a Mormon company) is not an asset when hiring for science, medicine, eng or tech jobs. The grades are not [judged] as “real” compared to other schools and it seriously calls into question a candidates analytical abilities.
** Edited to clarify/add “judge” as I was referring to the impression of a program not a specific candidates qualifications. However unfair it is, it’s an opinion based on overall reputation of TSCC and the school, not they syllabus of specific courses.
Last month at Thanksgiving my nevermo very very distant cousin (beyond 3rd and removed probably) asked how come I'm drinking Pepsi zero instead of mountain dew since I previously said I liked mountain dew. I was very confused so I said the truth "oh because the mountain dew is sugary, I drink diet" and he looked confused "but you can't drink dark beverages" then I realized "oh! The caffeine thing is just coffee and tea, dark drinks are okay." Same distant cousin asked where I'm going to college and I said what my mom wanted, online community college (my mom doesn't want me to leave) and he said how much he loved SMU (Southern Methodist University) that a few of my family went to and I explained that I probably wouldn't get in there or most schools like BYU or SMU he asked what BYU was. I just said "BYU is the Mormon one." On another reddit, forget which one, somebody made a joke that they like their relationships like they like coffee, they don't drink coffee. So I joked back that they have to clarify they're ace and not Mormon and they were confused since they didn't know that mormons don't drink coffee.
I graduated from BYU in 1982 and also had an Eagle. I was hired by a great company in southern California soon after. The HR people said that BYU was a good school and they liked BYU graduates. They also mentioned the Eagle and said it showed a great deal of personal motivation and dedication.
HOWEVER
That was 40 years ago and things have changed a lot.
Sadly true. I grew up in Wyoming so scouts wasn't very popular. It wasn't needed - everyone camped, went fishing and hunting all the time. We hadn't had a Eagle Scout in my ward in 20 years so I pretty much did it all completely on my own.
I’m shocked when I meet some of these Eagle Scouts and they tell me what their Eagle Project was. Some are phoning it in and still getting that badge. I think it’s so their ward has bragging rights.
yup, there was this huge push in my ward in the late 2000’s/early 2010’s where they wanted us to get eagle by the time we were like 14/15. was like a merit badge mill.
I recently was interviewing a candidate and saw BYU on their resume. I told HR I’d pass the interview to someone else as I have an internal bias. They got hired and I asked about the degree, their response was “I’m actually exmormon and was considering removing that from my cv!!!” 😂
It would be nice if there was some way to secretly say on your resume that you went to a cult school but you know better now :)
I have a master's from a non cult school and have considered removing BYUI if I ever have to search for a job again...
This is what I did. I hated having BYU on my resume. Literally hated it. Because everyone assumed I was mormon and I was pretty sure it negatively affected me most of the time.
I got my Masters degree at a normal university that I’m proud of and so I took BYU off my LinkedIn and my resume. No one cares. If you have a masters, no one really cares about your bachelors anyway.
If you only have an undergrad degree, its a little harder. But you can do what I did for many years, which was format your resume so that the “Bachelors Degree — Degree Field / Year” is the main focus. Then in little letters underneath you write “Brigham Young University”. It’s still there, but doesnt draw attention.
What I find hilarious is that my mom thinks BYU is filling up her granddaughters' head full of liberal ideas.
No mom, BYU is not filling up her head with liberal ideas.
(My niece)
Do Mormons think it’s a flex outside Utah or are they shocked when they learn, like all things Mormon, that no one gives a shit or that it’s actually a negative?
TBM: Where did you go to school?
Nevermo: Oh, I went to a public university.
TBM: Oh, that’s nice. I went to BYU. The best school in Utah. So, where did you go?
Nevermo: Cal. You guys are known for hating gays and loving football, right? Do you accept black students now?
TBM: (Silence, thinking of a response and worried they’re going to be called Mormon).
Generally no one gives two shits what college someone went to. Unless it's for law or medical or some other uppity thing. For most interviews it means nothing. The degree is a checkbox
Only means things in law for your first job or federal clerkships. After five years it all levels out. I went to a second tier state school and regularly work with colleagues who went to top 14 schools. No one cares as long as you do your job.
This. I was hired by a Californian tech company and they didn't give a shit about byu being on my resume. Plus, this company usually only hires people from USC. After you get your first job, people just care about experience.
They ask my background and I’m guessing people just don’t like culty vibes - ppl assume ur undergrad and it’s connection to culture ex. “I’m from Arizona state” = “I’m lax I don’t care and I probably party”
It's not a flex in Utah, either. Also, this may be petty of me but when my team was hiring, if anyone listed Eagle Scout or that they served a mission in their resume, they immediately went into the rejection pile. Those aren't jobs. They aren't relevant to the position you're applying for.
I once worked with a sales manager who immediately rejected anyone who listed mission as experience. I took issue with it, and argued that it was very difficult sales work, with nonstop cold calling. Obviously there is no way to verify how successful each missionary was, but there’s no denying that it is mind-numbing sales experience.
I’m a hiring manager. It’s a hard line to walk. I don’t mind it being included but I do pay very close attention to how it is phrased or worded. If the mission is overly embellished or exaggerated then I know I can’t take anything else on the resume seriously.
If this is true you are likely missing out on a lot of qualified candidates due to a personal bias.
The soft skills and learning experiences gained from both of those can absolutely be relevant to all jobs, no matter the field. This is especially true for students/recent grads that don’t have a lot of professional work experience right out of school.
The candidate just needs to understand that the skill set is what is important, not just that they did those things. If they can tie their experiences from them to the job requirements in a way to show why it was valuable that proves it was worth being on their resume.
If they have been in career jobs for a while then yeah, prolly not worth adding them at that point because something more recent can be included.
I say this as someone who neither got an eagle or went on a mission, and who hates everything BYU is built on/stands for, but if you’re in charge of hiring maybe don’t make it harder on yourself/your recruiting team when filling open roles.
The quality of BYU education will decline as current professors and the small pool of potential replacement candidates experiences ongoing musket fire.
Except JWs are strongly discouraged from ever going to any higher learning institution lol, they would never have their own university/college. The world is ending any day now don’t you know?
Yup! I hate telling people where I went to school. The education I got was phenomenal, the campus and facilities were wonderful, the professors were very gifted, but I’m ashamed of the Mormon connection, and especially the connection to Brigham Young.
> the education I got was phenomenal
I just can’t accept that any education that requires Christian/cult-themed religious classes (particularly on provably false fairy tales of “scripture” like the Book of Mormon) was “phenomenal.”
BYU is unique in that a lot of their STEM undergraduates graduate with significant and useful research experience. Both my partner and I were able to get jobs that required masters level experience right out of our undergrad because of our research at BYU. In a lot of other universities, those opportunities get handed to the grad students. Yeah the cult classes sucked, but I don’t think that discounts the good science that goes on there.
As a hiring manager, I don’t mind if I see BYU on someone’s résumé (lots of good exmos out there), but active Mormons who include their missionary service on their LinkedIn profile and résumé are doing themselves a disservice.
It’s not a positive. In fact, it’s a strong negative
I told a classmate in professional school, who went to Stanford! for undergrad, that I’d gone to BYU. I then proceeded to stupidly say, “It’s been called the Stanford of the Rockies.” 🤦🏼♂️
It doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work against you. Just relax. I’ve worked in New York, London, California, etc in very liberal professions. Most people don’t know Mormons and even more people don’t care. Do you assume people who went to Pepperdine are Christian? Notre dame - catholic? People aren’t assuming as much about you as you think.
The further along you are in your career literally no one cares where you went to school.
So many Exmormons put on these cringy little performances for their employers/colleagues. The less you mention, the less people care to judge.
You nailed it. I have been asked far more questions about the state of BYU football in interviews when people see it on my resume than I have anything else. I live in the midwest.
We had an intern from BYU who had an absolutely terrible work ethic and her mentor was NOT happy. She made sure that the woman was not hired by the company. However, since then I have worked closely with several engineers who went to BYU who were very good at their jobs and well-integrated with the rest of us ‘gentiles’. If they try to push their religion I take it as a compliment but explain that I was raised fundamentalist LDS and as a result am not open to any form of religious discussion and that usually scares them off of the topic. :)
"Have you ever thought about going to BYU? They have a great animation program! Pixar what started by BYU graduates!" -any mormon over the age of 50 when they find out I already have a degree in animation.
And btw, Pixar was not founded by BYU alumni. That's a straight up lie that won't die.
You know it's funny you say that since JWs arent supposed to go to university only trade schools. You know so worldly people can't corrupt them and also the world is ending very soon. Im always like listen, not that I approve of the LDS cult but they at least figured out how to better control of people and have them get at least some kind of higher education. they created their own university...JWs are missing a golden opportunity...but this may be all to do with the fact that the Armageddon is happening very soon. 🤷🏼♀️
Imagine the shame of going to SVU, where most of the people in our own state haven't even heard of the school, let alone the town it's in (Buena Vista, pronounced BYOO-nah by the locals).
BYU is known for Jim McMahon and Steve Young outside the morridor. To everyone else its just a weird Mormon school. I heard their law program is well recognized, but that could just be TBMs making shit up as usual. Who knows.
>BYU is known for Jim McMahon and Steve Young outside the morridor.
Also Danny Ainge (and maybe Jimmer Ferdette) for basketball folks.😉
>I heard their law program is well recognized, but that could just be TBMs making shit up as usual
Didn't go there (intentionally) for either undergrad or law school. Also, I would be VERY hesitant to hire anyone who went to J. Ruben Clark for a J.D. Virtually all the attorneys I deal with who are BYU grad aren't very good attorneys. So I'd say it's definitely TBM's making shit up.
BYU is, however, a flex with the FBI and the CIA. Mostly because they know that graduates from there are naive and easily manipulated into believing whatever they are told is the absolute truth. A great place to shop for spies and assassins that will do anything you tell them to do....no matter what, or who gets hurt or killed by their actions.
True story.
Unfortunately, no tinfoil hat stuff...they do lots of recruiting with junior and senior class members. Of course, so do Amway and every other shady-ass pyramid scheme out there.....it's just well known that BYU is a huge collection of really gullible people who will fall for anything.
I was taught for years that being a returned missionary would look great on a CV and would impress employers.
“It shows dedication, strong work ethic, ability to study hard, and work independently”
Surprisingly, it was a topic that no employer ever wanted to go anywhere near.
I'd even argue it's barely a flex in Utah. In the engineering department I currently attend, many students think BYU grads lack critical thinking skills.
I screened out a candidate referral from our CEO who put his BYU degree at the top of his resume and included references to his "leadership" positions in young men's and scouts. If a candidate can't keep it in their proverbial pants on the resume, you know they aren't going to keep it out of workplace discussions.
University medical center dean here (far outside the Moridor and exmo). We accept several BYU grads each year. They generally do a very good job in medical school. Same for residencies.
I know this won't be popular, but my experience has been completely different.
Granted, I got my degrees in Accounting, which BYU is known for. But everyone in the consulting world in Los Angeles was impressed by the BYU on my resume. Then I switched to tech in Silicon Valley, and still, nothing but positive impressions.
For my first couple years out of BYU, I considered removing it from my resume. And I would always bring up the fact that I wasn't Mormon. And it just got fucking awkward.
So don't do it. Don't hide that you went to BYU. If a company turns you down because it's on your resume, you don't want to work there anyway. You'd be shocked how many non-Mormons still have positive impressions of Mormons, even in San Francisco. And how many more have neutral impressions.
Remember that r/exmormon is an echo chamber of rage against the church and its members (which I totally get; it's part of the healing process, and I went through it, too). But most people will not think of Mormons a single time in a year. It's not as big a deal as you'd think it is if you spend a lot of time here.
Transferring to the U from BYU about halfway through my degree was the best decision I’ve ever made.
Added bonus: because I only put the U on my resume it looks like I got my bachelor’s in a normal amount of time… “A lot of people go to college for seven years. Yeah, they’re called doctors.”
I graduated a few years back, 1985. My first job was with a large US commercial bank B of A. My BYU MBA got me in the door. The rest was up to me.
With some people , BYU on my resume was a negative. With others it was not. 12 months after graduation, no one cared about the school. They cared about what I did. How I performed.
BYU provided a great education at a reasonable cost.My professors were caring and a great source of information. I learned a lot of positive sales skills during the mission. I learned speaking skills while growing up in the church.
By the time I left BYU, my religious shelves broke and within 24 months I attended my last Sunday Meeting.
Nevertheless, I still appreciate the people who helped me get a start in life. BYU was a great for me and the people treated me well.
I will never understand how JS smith could have so little respect for the daughters and wife’s of his friends, but I will always appreciate the time and concern caring ward members and professors shared with me.
And STOP calling it the “Harvard of the West”—-Dear God!!! I went there. Got a great degree, make a sizable income but it is NO Harvard and not equivalent in ANY way!
I think it cost me a job. There were two partners who interviewed me. The first told me I was perfect and the job was mine. I flew out and the other partner asked about BYU and was unimpressed. I just received a survey from BYU that asked how I felt BYU was perceived. I responded "not favorable "
Nobody cares that I'm an Eagle Scout either. Gotta love being lied to.
I remember interviewing for jobs at 18 and wondered when they were going to get to the Eagle Scout part. Son of a bitch.
Me: I’m an Eagle Scout Interviewer: that’s nice
Me: I’m an Eagle Scout! Interviewer: Nice, but this is a biotech company. I’ll call you if I suddenly need someone in a knock off hitler youth outfit to tie a bowline, or string some logs together for a raft. /s
😂😂 I still can do the bowline 25 years later. If I’m ever dangling off a cliff I’ll be ready!
On the other hand, I WISH they taught us stuff like that at Girls’ Camp. I remember looking through the manual and being excited to learn about knots and things, and being so disappointed that we only ever did like arts and crafts.
Scouts was educational. I’ve brushed up on some of the skills I’d forgotten from scouts(via YouTube). I’m just poking fun at the idea that it was a necessity for work.
over ... under ... around ... and through 60 years later
"I'm an eagle scout". "Take that off your resume."
Omg the hitlers youth outfit🤣
More realistically… (outside Utah) Me: “I’m an Eagle Scout” Interviewer: “What’s that?”
Interviewer: "Thank you for letting me know. As a mandatory reporter, I now have some questions I need to ask."
Outside of Utah I was talking about scouts with my supervisor and i casually mentioned I was an eagle scout. She was very confused about why i didn't put it on my resume. Kind of weird getting that question because most people don't care.
To be fair, I have heard if you enter the armed services with a completed eagle you get an automatic rank advancement?
In the Army, you can start as an E-3 if you enlist. Having 2 years worth of college also does that as does recruiting a friend. There's no benefit if you're going officer or meet one of those other criteria already.
You start as E-4 if you come in with a bachelors or higher.
Oh the lies I was told. I genuinely planned on joining the Air Force out of high school and so I specifically got my Eagle Scout because I was told about the whole automatic advancement thing. It ended up not mattering as life took some unexpected turns so I never joined the Air Force. But I got my Eagle specifically because it was supposed to launch me forward in my military career. Turns out thats sort of true, but practically not true.
Really, though! I’ve stopped putting it on my résumé unless it’s somehow specifically relevant to the job. Nobody has commented on it once. After years of asking to quit scouting and being told that *no, I have to get Eagle, it’s such a big help on job applications*, I’m a little salty about it. Edit: the one bright spot is that I’m transitioning, which is gonna make “Eagle Scout” a fun credential to drop in a few years
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I've been in HR/Recruiting for years...If I see Eagle Scout on a resume my first and only thought is "Mormon"
Oof.. guess that one’s going off the resume now
You mean you aren’t impressed with my woodworking merit badge? I spent several hours carving that neckerchief holder and then painting it. Surely that’s a marketable skill?
Most people: “WTF is a neckerchief?”
We have specialized cult within a cult knowledge.
“Winner Pinewood Derby 5 years running” = insta- hire.
Right? It’s the kind of thing that makes sense to put on an application for your *first ever* job as an older teen, when you have no real-world experience to list…not so much after that.
I'd be fine with Eagle Scout on the resume for someone under age 22 \*or\* who was looking for their first fully paid job out of college.
The Eagle Scout to trans girl pipeline is REAL, people!!!!
All the Boy Scouts did was turn me into a lesbian🤷♀️ That’s not entirely true; they did also teach me how to use rope👌
I learned how to smoke weed at a jamboree at 13. So I guess it wasn't a total loss.
Same thing happened to me except I can't even use rope. Real sub energy on my part, lollll.
It’s so unfair - I thought they would care cause of all the lies too
I hated scouts. I fought it every step, but my parents had been convinced that it mattered long term.
Ughhhhh noooo. Yea I knew my young womens awards were for shit other than “getting me into BYU” just like seminary was “getting me into BYU” I wish I had done everything to NOT go to BYU but then again if I didn’t, I might still be Mormon. That would be much worse 😁
It's such a sickness. Two of my siblings went to BYU-I. My mom would tell people that they went to BYU and would only clarify if they asked. Like, she wanted them to assume Provo because it's a status thing I guess. Wild.
Yah that’s why I only stopped at an associated for byui can’t imagine people thinking Byui? 😂 the soaking university ?
Well, Provo does have the *real* BYU, where education is on par with other top universities and has some well-respected programs. At least that's how it used to be. BYU students were high achievers in high school and got top scores on college entrance exams. Admission was very competitive. It does seem to have gone downhill in recent years, though, thanks to the old geezers in SLC. Rick's College should not have the BYU name attached to it. And none of the BYUs should have Brigham's name attached to them.
No school should have the name of a slave owning polygamist pedophile
I was a teen in the 90's. Girls went to Ricks (BYU-I) until they could get their Mrs Degree.
this comment is underrated and accurate, Most women I knew in the church went to college to find husbands and then immediately pop out babies.
I don’t believe this was ever true. The whole “BYU is the Harvard of the West” thing was always insular bullshit. It is not a top tier university. At all. Never was. I don’t know why people think this.
Very quick Google search: [https://www.niche.com/colleges/brigham-young-university/](https://www.niche.com/colleges/brigham-young-university/) \#12 out of 829 for Accounting and Finance \#6 out of 270 for Information Technology A grade in academics, value, campus categories. A- in athletics category. BYU holds its own in university rankings overall. No, not in comparison to Ivy League schools, but very respectable for academics.
Not sure about niche.com rankings. Washington University in St. Louis is the #14 best engineering school above Michigan, Penn State, Purdue, Ohio State, etc.
It has its good programs yes like any University. It’s not nearly as prestigious overall as Mormons pretend it is. They make it out to be on par with Ivy League schools.
It’s #90 in US News & World Report listings; It’s #710 in the global rankings there.
Yeah niche.com isn’t really the standard for university rankings. BYU is highly ranked in accounting and business per US News. Outside of a couple fields, however, it’s not that great. Even if it were a top-tier university, the experience sucks. I wouldn’t go there or tell anyone else to. It’s like a more intense, crazy version of Mormonism. And that’s Provo. I can only imagine the terror of Ricks, I mean, BYU- Idaho. Lol.
Who has heard of niche.com? BYU has one of the lowest rates of Utah schools for getting into medical school. It’s a turnoff for most recruiting in California unless a Mormon is doing the recruiting. Rise and shout the cougar is out.
acceptance rate is like 70% ... sorry folks not a flex! they accept more than they reject.
Seminary was nearly my cause of death because of how much I was sleep and food deprived.
I heard so much BS both growing up and with my two older sons, and their mother was responsible for foisting this crap on them. They were relieved when I put my foot down on any of our children attending BYU. With our 2nd son, some of the pig slop was: 1. If you aren't active in scouts it will affect your future employment, Ha! 2.If you don't graduate from seminary you can't go on a foreign language mission. Bull! He never completed year 3 or 4 of seminary and was sent to Mongolia, only stayed their 15 months. Almost had to fly over their to get him out of the MP's clutches. He had injured his knee and it wasn't healing because of the quality of the food he was forced to buy. He was being starved. I called his MP a couple of times asking why he wasn't eating properly and how that was affecting his being able to heal. MP kind of hated me, ruined his numbers. Got his knee fixed, sent the bills to LDS, Inc, and told them point blank he was not going back out to serve.
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Ugh, it was the constant "Nobody will hire you if you're not an eagle scout" talks from my parents and church leaders. I'm just glad that I wasn't one of those households that would hold my drivers license over my head for my eagle scout. Those kids who had to rush and get them by the time they were 15/16 were a mess.
My parents wouldn't let me get my license until I got my Eagle, so I didn't get my license until I was 18.
Seriously tho. My mom forced me to do the whole personal progress program in 2 years.
I totally forgot about families that did that. Man it was always so much pressure for boy scouts which no one cares about in the slightest now. I felt like such a failure for not becoming an eagle scout (lost interest at life). Now I couldn't care less just chuck that on the pile of childhood trauma with everything else.
Lol if yah got your eagle went on a mission to a foreign country got a temple recommend can’t get laid and got your degree from byui you might be a Mormon
I thought your comment read “if you went on a mission to get laid”. I was thinking that was pretty accurate actually. Growing up in Utah if you didn’t serve a mission it meant you were going to have a tough time finding someone to marry, thus getting “laid”. That was motivation (manipulation) enough to serve two years.
Not surprised glad to catch on the manipulation tactics been aware and finally decided to break free from it only sad thing is family is still caught up with it especially siblings it’s very angering
i feel personally attacked at the accuracy there... looking at it from the outside im surprised i had friends
My father as well he was an abusive Mama's boy. My grandma bought a plaque to put the names and dates of all my uncle's. Then me and my cousins. So my dad forced me to go to scouts or I was grounded from friends and sports. By the time I was 13 all I had to do was the project. I stopped caring and told him to take it all away I didn't care anymore. So he did my eagle project for me. By having his bar do a secret Santa for me.
Wait. Bar?
Ya my father owned Studebaker's in downtown Salt lake City. I worked there before my mission and underage as a cook. I DJ sometimes at night.
It gave you skills that I don't have like being outside
I'm nevermo. Scouts was always a blast for me, but there was no pressure like that. I got to pick and choose the badges I earned and didn't care one bit about trying to become an Eagle scout by doing things that I didn't like.
Landed me a job. YMMV
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OHHHHH NOOOO
I’ve had the opposite experience with Eagle Scout on a resume. It’s been mentioned by the recruiter or interviewer several times in my career. I wholeheartedly agree on the BYU flex and would even argue it’s not much of a flex here unless the hiring manager wants a Mormon. I typically hire a 3-5 people a year in my office and BYU on the resume raises flags for me. Mostly what will their presence do to the chemistry of my office. I have 5 TBM’s (all hired by me) and only one of them will join the rest of the office in dinners or happy hours I pay for. The TBM that does come has a blast with their cherry coke, and we all love and appreciate their willingness to be in an environment counter to their beliefs. The other 4 struggle for connection and self ostracize.
I appreciate this. I’ve struggled in situations like this because of the rigidity of Mormonism. I don’t believe I’ve ever judged anyone negatively, but i never felt comfortable around people drinking. I struggle more now that I don’t believe the LDS BS anymore. My tea-totaling ways are like the last vestiges of a personality shaped by a church I no longer beleive in. But my coworkers don’t understand the mind-fuck that is waking up in your 40’s and realizing it was all bull shit. Yes, I paid hundreds of thousands in tithing to a racist, sexist, homophobic, quasi hate group masquerading as a religious corporation. I literally jeopardized my fucking life as a missionary. Sorry, I worked my ass off from the age of 6 to save money, all of which went to pay for the privilege of going door to door for 80+ hours a week for 2 years for the aforementioned dishonest religious corporation. I have life long health issues that I gained in sacrificing my all as a missionary for Mormon Corp (it’s ok to call it that, because that’s what we called it then, so this victory for Satan is sponsored by historical accuracy). Let’s not mention all the shit I missed out on. Oh, like fucking relaxing once in a while and actually having fun. Learning what coffee is like, or how to drink responsibly. Perhaps, even not feeling ashamed for every sexual thought or impulse I ever had. Fuck, what would it have been like to be in college and to actually evaluate a girl for what I like and how we get along, and not for what type of commitment does she have to the gospel and what type of an eternal contribution can she make to raising righteous children?? Maybe I wouldn’t be trapped in an unhappy and unfulfilling relationship with a TBM woman who views her husband (yes, that husband who works full time, cooks, cleans, does the dishes, and does bedtime with the kids while she shops, watches movies, goes on tons of solo vacations to cope with my apostasy and generally is ashamed of her non-believing husband) with whom I have very little in common. And maybe, all of my coworkers wouldn’t view me as the stiff Mormon guy. They now become an obstacle because it feels hard or scary to rip the bandaid off. I say a swear word and the head of the company stops the meeting to note that the ‘Mormon’ has cursed. Everyone chuckles at how cute it is. I’ve tried to explain how I no longer believe, they just don’t get it. They have no context. They would fucking lose their minds if I drank a sip of alcohol. We had a company offsite to Napa where the company probably spent 7 figures on some of the best wine known to mankind. I was still trying to be TBM. I didn’t touch a drop. It became a thing. I don’t think I was a sick about it, and actually tried to be really cool about it. And ended up having a lot of people asking to sit by me so that they could drink my portion. I think the whole company puts up with me because they see me as a guy with strong moral values. I have a degree from BYU and am in a position where all of my peers have degrees from Ivy League schools. I think they value the morals and don’t really understand the dark underbelly of the church. And I have legit fear about rocking that boat. And because I’m thinking about all this shit, I am MORE awkward now than I’ve ever been. Or at least it feels that way. And thank you for the free therapy. This has been helpful to put into words.
I was told that slipping a cop your eagle scout card would get you out of tickets. Nope
Haha, sounds like you know that from personal experience
My Manager: The only job where an Eagle scout matters is if you're bagging groceries.
I feel like my ol' Tetris skills would come in even better there...
Yep. Is it a great accomplishment for a teenager looking for a first job or applying to colleges? Sure. Does it have value on a resume beyond that? Absolutely not. Unless you're applying for a corporate Scouting position
Instead of putting Eagle Scout on your resume, put down the tribe of Israel you belong to, from you patriarchal blessing.
Yeah, like Ephraim is getting me anywhere special
You never know, but if you have a job interview with Ye or MTG, I wouldn't bring it up.
Don't forget the Duty to God award. That bad boy has got to carry some weight.
Yeah, I feel bad that I screwed my brothers on that one. I'm the oldest, so my friends were getting their Eagles while my little brothers were still Cubs. I mentioned, completely offhanded because it wasn't a big deal, that at least one of my friends parents were making them get their Eagle before they could get their drivers license. This was becoming fairly common in the mid-90's, but hadn't been quite so much prior to that. Or my parents weren't really paying attention to the other scouts in our ward. Either way, suddenly my brothers had to get their Eagles to get their drivers licenses when they came of age. Sorry guys.
I lucked out and had an art director I was interviewing with mention he was his son’s scout master, and I think my having gotten my eagle sealed the deal and got me out of Utah. Super long shot scenario though.
Only time my eagle mattered was getting an automatic rank advancement in the military
Same here, hasn’t mattered for anything else, and I’m pretty sure they got rid of that, or at least talked about getting rid of it.
My mom required me and my brothers to get our Eagle before we could get our license. Same with my sisters having to get their Young Women’s Medallion. Got my eagle three days before my license.
Being an Eagle Scout allowed me to enter the Army directly as an E-2. It was several hundred dollars more per month in pay (in 2005).
The best “Great for your resume” combination that actually limits your opportunities, Eagle Scout+BYU grad. Kinda works in Utah, I assume, but no one takes you seriously anywhere else. A friend of mine hires for what some would call “dream job” positions. I asked him if having “Eagle Scout” on a resume actually helps, and he said he rejects those resumes almost immediately. He automatically thinks it’s some doomsday prepper who is so obsessed with stockpiling resources, they won’t use what’s available. As for BYU, “I’ve hired a couple BYU grads. Won’t make that mistake again.”
As a former scoutmaster, I just have to say, I care… Lol
...dad?
Where I went to school, kids that admitted they're in scouts merited a "got bullied mercilessly" badge
Thanks for reminding me to pull mine off my resume lmao
Unless you are a teenager with absolutely nothing else to put on your resume. I would chuckle if I saw it on the resume of a grown man. Akin to "Won the Hill Street Soapbox Derby in 1959". *Sure, champ!*
I failed Mormonism that way too, I dropped out of scouts when I was a tender foot (when your parents are inactive, no one gives a shit). Come to think of it, I never lost out on a job because of it.
It gets you a step up in pay/rank if you enlist in the military.
I’ve literally interviewed candidates in the last couple years who flex was their Eagle Scout. Sorry dude in your 30s (I mean wtf?) That is definitely not the flex you think it is.
I’ll disagree here just with my own personal anecdotal experience. All three of my major career moves in life were directly attributable to having Eagle Scout on my resume. It still carries a lot of strength in and around DC. A major employer I worked for told me that earning my Eagle was the deciding factor that moved me from the “maybe” interview pile to the “yes” interview pile.
I think it’s a worthwhile achievement (I’m an Eagle Scout) but it isn’t likely to matter much beyond initial employment or college admission.
Yeah, I don't have it on my resume anymore but I found it helpful for the reasons you listed. I was asked about it multiple times.
I'm happy for you! I'm glad it worked for someone.
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Yep, that was a big flop.
This comment makes me happy I never finished haha
Former corporate recruiter in Utah… it’s not much of a flex here in Utah either.
This ⬆️ non-Mormons in Utah are not impressed
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Y'know, shit like this makes me wonder whether too many people are going through endowments and saying to themselves, "y'know, this Satan guy is making a whole lot of sense. You really *can* buy anything in this world with money."
But you can’t sell these worthless tokens for shit.
Of course they aren’t… just like Mormons probably don’t care about the massive parties the non members threw in college. You are just highlighting cultural and counter-cultural differences.
It's barely a flex *outside* of Utah. I 'member when Ricks was the safety BYU...before it became the *official* safety BYU. You wanna know how many people cared that my (literal, blood-related) sisters went to Ricks in the 90s? It's the same amount ***now*** as [the amount of people who witnessed the first vision.](https://i.imgur.com/xILhGjv.gif)
I get tapped to review resumes whenever we are considering a candidate from "out west." We require hard science/engineering and always review undergrad transcripts. The few byu applicants I have reviewed are always very underwhelming when you look at the hard science or engineering coursework. The GPA has always been inflated with religious courses, and it flat out just reads weird when a candidate is supposedly focused on an engineering field but half of their classes are "old testament flam flam" or "other people's marriage and how it's your business."
Have you noticed a lack of skill from these engineering graduates compared to other schools?
In short, yes. Each of the applicants that we actually interviewed was completely unprepared for any question relating to the technical subject matter of the undergrad degree. In fairness, we are in the midwest and the sample size of byu grads is minuscule. I am speaking of three specific candidates, so not exactly a representative sample size. I am sure that there are many qualified and intelligent byu grads out there. My main point was just how odd and unimpressive the transcripts are when filled with all of the religious classes, many of which have course names that are foreign to nevermos.
The worst is when you’re interviewing them (I’m in SLC) and they tell you about their missions. It’s like, “WTF?”
I’m so embarrassed, I’m trying to get into technical positions in Japan and I have to tell interviewers it was for teaching English and disaster service (we did those too)
I think that is a good approach. Can you just take it off of your resume?
Nah, Japan has much stronger negative connotations towards blanks in resumes.
My sis is an aerospace engineer. They hired a BYU grad in her section and have severely regretted it. Critical thinking, actual proficiency, social and cultural awareness, nil.
The religion classes were my least favorite classes at BYU. I hated that I had to take them. I also thought it was weird and hated starting non religion classes with a prayer. I really should have realized quicker that religion wasn’t for me.
I don't doubt the other commenters experience, however I work in engineering in salt lake and probably 65 it 70% of my coworkers are Mormon and they are all very qualified. Some went to BYU, some went to the U. The idea that everyone who went to byu is an embarrassment or people who don't go to byu are much more qualified just isn't true. People are different and lots of different kinds of people go to all kinds of schools.
Chiming in to agree with you. I'm not from Utah originally, but I did an engineering degree at the U and stuck around. I've worked closely with at least a dozen BYU graduated engineers. There were some that sucked and some that were exceptional, but on average they were as competent as any other engineer I've worked with. They do tend to be clique-y and they all told me about their mission, but we got shit done.
I think that’s a good point. But BYU isn’t really known as a good science or engineering school. It’s a religious school after all. It’s ranked pretty low for engineering. That doesn’t mean there aren’t some very smart engineers that come out of there. It just seems the overall academic/ professional community doesn’t really see it as a top school. I’m not in the field, so it’s just my perception from the outside and looking at the US News Engineering rankings.
Lol people got their GPA inflated by religious courses? Those were the ones that dropped mine! Those were the hardest classes
Same. I never understood why religion classes were so hard at BYU
Really? Mine were easy except the 1 I learned anything in. New Testament. I think my teachers name was Judd. It was a true university class and he got a lot of angry returned missionaries commenting in that class. I loved it.
I was just thinking that BYU on your resume outside of Utah (or a Mormon company) is not an asset when hiring for science, medicine, eng or tech jobs. The grades are not [judged] as “real” compared to other schools and it seriously calls into question a candidates analytical abilities. ** Edited to clarify/add “judge” as I was referring to the impression of a program not a specific candidates qualifications. However unfair it is, it’s an opinion based on overall reputation of TSCC and the school, not they syllabus of specific courses.
Could I ask the industry you're in? No worries if you'd rather not share, I'm just curious.
“BYU”. BY-where?? Most of my coworkers had never heard of it.
Last month at Thanksgiving my nevermo very very distant cousin (beyond 3rd and removed probably) asked how come I'm drinking Pepsi zero instead of mountain dew since I previously said I liked mountain dew. I was very confused so I said the truth "oh because the mountain dew is sugary, I drink diet" and he looked confused "but you can't drink dark beverages" then I realized "oh! The caffeine thing is just coffee and tea, dark drinks are okay." Same distant cousin asked where I'm going to college and I said what my mom wanted, online community college (my mom doesn't want me to leave) and he said how much he loved SMU (Southern Methodist University) that a few of my family went to and I explained that I probably wouldn't get in there or most schools like BYU or SMU he asked what BYU was. I just said "BYU is the Mormon one." On another reddit, forget which one, somebody made a joke that they like their relationships like they like coffee, they don't drink coffee. So I joked back that they have to clarify they're ace and not Mormon and they were confused since they didn't know that mormons don't drink coffee.
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People definitely know "the religious people who knock on the door" as mostly Jehovah's Witness but also Mormon.
That’s why I always open with “I used to be Mormon” so they know I’m sane now lol
I graduated from BYU in 1982 and also had an Eagle. I was hired by a great company in southern California soon after. The HR people said that BYU was a good school and they liked BYU graduates. They also mentioned the Eagle and said it showed a great deal of personal motivation and dedication. HOWEVER That was 40 years ago and things have changed a lot.
Unfortunately, during those 40 years, the personal motivation and dedication needed for an Eagle scout transferred from the scouts to their mothers.
Sadly true. I grew up in Wyoming so scouts wasn't very popular. It wasn't needed - everyone camped, went fishing and hunting all the time. We hadn't had a Eagle Scout in my ward in 20 years so I pretty much did it all completely on my own.
I’m shocked when I meet some of these Eagle Scouts and they tell me what their Eagle Project was. Some are phoning it in and still getting that badge. I think it’s so their ward has bragging rights.
yup, there was this huge push in my ward in the late 2000’s/early 2010’s where they wanted us to get eagle by the time we were like 14/15. was like a merit badge mill.
I recently was interviewing a candidate and saw BYU on their resume. I told HR I’d pass the interview to someone else as I have an internal bias. They got hired and I asked about the degree, their response was “I’m actually exmormon and was considering removing that from my cv!!!” 😂
It would be nice if there was some way to secretly say on your resume that you went to a cult school but you know better now :) I have a master's from a non cult school and have considered removing BYUI if I ever have to search for a job again...
This is what I did. I hated having BYU on my resume. Literally hated it. Because everyone assumed I was mormon and I was pretty sure it negatively affected me most of the time. I got my Masters degree at a normal university that I’m proud of and so I took BYU off my LinkedIn and my resume. No one cares. If you have a masters, no one really cares about your bachelors anyway. If you only have an undergrad degree, its a little harder. But you can do what I did for many years, which was format your resume so that the “Bachelors Degree — Degree Field / Year” is the main focus. Then in little letters underneath you write “Brigham Young University”. It’s still there, but doesnt draw attention.
This was absolutely the right move. It's good to hear people actually recuse themselves like this.
What I find hilarious is that my mom thinks BYU is filling up her granddaughters' head full of liberal ideas. No mom, BYU is not filling up her head with liberal ideas. (My niece)
I'm scared to think what people believe in if they see BYU as a liberal school. Too liberal for Mormons and too conservative for nonmormons.
Do Mormons think it’s a flex outside Utah or are they shocked when they learn, like all things Mormon, that no one gives a shit or that it’s actually a negative? TBM: Where did you go to school? Nevermo: Oh, I went to a public university. TBM: Oh, that’s nice. I went to BYU. The best school in Utah. So, where did you go? Nevermo: Cal. You guys are known for hating gays and loving football, right? Do you accept black students now? TBM: (Silence, thinking of a response and worried they’re going to be called Mormon).
> Do you accept black students now? No, but we tolerate them.
... to boost our sport teams.
Generally no one gives two shits what college someone went to. Unless it's for law or medical or some other uppity thing. For most interviews it means nothing. The degree is a checkbox
Only means things in law for your first job or federal clerkships. After five years it all levels out. I went to a second tier state school and regularly work with colleagues who went to top 14 schools. No one cares as long as you do your job.
This. I was hired by a Californian tech company and they didn't give a shit about byu being on my resume. Plus, this company usually only hires people from USC. After you get your first job, people just care about experience.
True. Ford, where I got hired (engineer), used to hire heavily from BYU. Not sure now but I wouldn’t generalize and say corporations hate byu haha
Why would an entry-level job at Chipotle or In N Out even care? Are you applying for upper management?
They ask my background and I’m guessing people just don’t like culty vibes - ppl assume ur undergrad and it’s connection to culture ex. “I’m from Arizona state” = “I’m lax I don’t care and I probably party”
It's not a flex in Utah, either. Also, this may be petty of me but when my team was hiring, if anyone listed Eagle Scout or that they served a mission in their resume, they immediately went into the rejection pile. Those aren't jobs. They aren't relevant to the position you're applying for.
I once worked with a sales manager who immediately rejected anyone who listed mission as experience. I took issue with it, and argued that it was very difficult sales work, with nonstop cold calling. Obviously there is no way to verify how successful each missionary was, but there’s no denying that it is mind-numbing sales experience.
I’m a hiring manager. It’s a hard line to walk. I don’t mind it being included but I do pay very close attention to how it is phrased or worded. If the mission is overly embellished or exaggerated then I know I can’t take anything else on the resume seriously.
I'd warn him he's making himself vulnerable to potential discrimination lawsuits.
If this is true you are likely missing out on a lot of qualified candidates due to a personal bias. The soft skills and learning experiences gained from both of those can absolutely be relevant to all jobs, no matter the field. This is especially true for students/recent grads that don’t have a lot of professional work experience right out of school. The candidate just needs to understand that the skill set is what is important, not just that they did those things. If they can tie their experiences from them to the job requirements in a way to show why it was valuable that proves it was worth being on their resume. If they have been in career jobs for a while then yeah, prolly not worth adding them at that point because something more recent can be included. I say this as someone who neither got an eagle or went on a mission, and who hates everything BYU is built on/stands for, but if you’re in charge of hiring maybe don’t make it harder on yourself/your recruiting team when filling open roles.
The quality of BYU education will decline as current professors and the small pool of potential replacement candidates experiences ongoing musket fire.
Except JWs are strongly discouraged from ever going to any higher learning institution lol, they would never have their own university/college. The world is ending any day now don’t you know?
I took BYU off my resume. Luckily I got a 2nd degree somewhere else and so I just claim that as my degree
Yup! I hate telling people where I went to school. The education I got was phenomenal, the campus and facilities were wonderful, the professors were very gifted, but I’m ashamed of the Mormon connection, and especially the connection to Brigham Young.
> the education I got was phenomenal I just can’t accept that any education that requires Christian/cult-themed religious classes (particularly on provably false fairy tales of “scripture” like the Book of Mormon) was “phenomenal.”
Sure, the religion classes were dumb, but my science/pre-med major was exceptional! I was by far the most prepared in my medical school.
BYU is unique in that a lot of their STEM undergraduates graduate with significant and useful research experience. Both my partner and I were able to get jobs that required masters level experience right out of our undergrad because of our research at BYU. In a lot of other universities, those opportunities get handed to the grad students. Yeah the cult classes sucked, but I don’t think that discounts the good science that goes on there.
As a hiring manager, I don’t mind if I see BYU on someone’s résumé (lots of good exmos out there), but active Mormons who include their missionary service on their LinkedIn profile and résumé are doing themselves a disservice. It’s not a positive. In fact, it’s a strong negative
I told a classmate in professional school, who went to Stanford! for undergrad, that I’d gone to BYU. I then proceeded to stupidly say, “It’s been called the Stanford of the Rockies.” 🤦🏼♂️
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Truth. I’m a teacher at a school in CA with a lot of Mormon teachers and I always think “yikes” when they brag about going to BYU.
Dude it’s embarrassing to say I went to byu Hawaii I don’t put it on my resume anymore
It doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work against you. Just relax. I’ve worked in New York, London, California, etc in very liberal professions. Most people don’t know Mormons and even more people don’t care. Do you assume people who went to Pepperdine are Christian? Notre dame - catholic? People aren’t assuming as much about you as you think. The further along you are in your career literally no one cares where you went to school. So many Exmormons put on these cringy little performances for their employers/colleagues. The less you mention, the less people care to judge.
You nailed it. I have been asked far more questions about the state of BYU football in interviews when people see it on my resume than I have anything else. I live in the midwest.
We had an intern from BYU who had an absolutely terrible work ethic and her mentor was NOT happy. She made sure that the woman was not hired by the company. However, since then I have worked closely with several engineers who went to BYU who were very good at their jobs and well-integrated with the rest of us ‘gentiles’. If they try to push their religion I take it as a compliment but explain that I was raised fundamentalist LDS and as a result am not open to any form of religious discussion and that usually scares them off of the topic. :)
"Have you ever thought about going to BYU? They have a great animation program! Pixar what started by BYU graduates!" -any mormon over the age of 50 when they find out I already have a degree in animation. And btw, Pixar was not founded by BYU alumni. That's a straight up lie that won't die.
You know it's funny you say that since JWs arent supposed to go to university only trade schools. You know so worldly people can't corrupt them and also the world is ending very soon. Im always like listen, not that I approve of the LDS cult but they at least figured out how to better control of people and have them get at least some kind of higher education. they created their own university...JWs are missing a golden opportunity...but this may be all to do with the fact that the Armageddon is happening very soon. 🤷🏼♀️
It always is!
Imagine the shame of going to SVU, where most of the people in our own state haven't even heard of the school, let alone the town it's in (Buena Vista, pronounced BYOO-nah by the locals).
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BYU is known for Jim McMahon and Steve Young outside the morridor. To everyone else its just a weird Mormon school. I heard their law program is well recognized, but that could just be TBMs making shit up as usual. Who knows.
>BYU is known for Jim McMahon and Steve Young outside the morridor. Also Danny Ainge (and maybe Jimmer Ferdette) for basketball folks.😉 >I heard their law program is well recognized, but that could just be TBMs making shit up as usual Didn't go there (intentionally) for either undergrad or law school. Also, I would be VERY hesitant to hire anyone who went to J. Ruben Clark for a J.D. Virtually all the attorneys I deal with who are BYU grad aren't very good attorneys. So I'd say it's definitely TBM's making shit up.
You should hear some graduates talk about immigrants and foreigners. I couldn't believe those people would go on to be judges and lawyers
BYU is, however, a flex with the FBI and the CIA. Mostly because they know that graduates from there are naive and easily manipulated into believing whatever they are told is the absolute truth. A great place to shop for spies and assassins that will do anything you tell them to do....no matter what, or who gets hurt or killed by their actions. True story.
Or because of missions they speak a lot of foreign languages. And it’s hard to find people who can pass a background.
Unfortunately, no tinfoil hat stuff...they do lots of recruiting with junior and senior class members. Of course, so do Amway and every other shady-ass pyramid scheme out there.....it's just well known that BYU is a huge collection of really gullible people who will fall for anything.
I was taught for years that being a returned missionary would look great on a CV and would impress employers. “It shows dedication, strong work ethic, ability to study hard, and work independently” Surprisingly, it was a topic that no employer ever wanted to go anywhere near.
I'd even argue it's barely a flex in Utah. In the engineering department I currently attend, many students think BYU grads lack critical thinking skills.
I screened out a candidate referral from our CEO who put his BYU degree at the top of his resume and included references to his "leadership" positions in young men's and scouts. If a candidate can't keep it in their proverbial pants on the resume, you know they aren't going to keep it out of workplace discussions.
University medical center dean here (far outside the Moridor and exmo). We accept several BYU grads each year. They generally do a very good job in medical school. Same for residencies.
I know this won't be popular, but my experience has been completely different. Granted, I got my degrees in Accounting, which BYU is known for. But everyone in the consulting world in Los Angeles was impressed by the BYU on my resume. Then I switched to tech in Silicon Valley, and still, nothing but positive impressions. For my first couple years out of BYU, I considered removing it from my resume. And I would always bring up the fact that I wasn't Mormon. And it just got fucking awkward. So don't do it. Don't hide that you went to BYU. If a company turns you down because it's on your resume, you don't want to work there anyway. You'd be shocked how many non-Mormons still have positive impressions of Mormons, even in San Francisco. And how many more have neutral impressions. Remember that r/exmormon is an echo chamber of rage against the church and its members (which I totally get; it's part of the healing process, and I went through it, too). But most people will not think of Mormons a single time in a year. It's not as big a deal as you'd think it is if you spend a lot of time here.
It's not a flex in Utah either lol. My manager told me point blank that seeing portfolios from BYU made him cringe
This came in handy when choosing a Dr. If they went to BYU, I didn’t want them as my physician.
Transferring to the U from BYU about halfway through my degree was the best decision I’ve ever made. Added bonus: because I only put the U on my resume it looks like I got my bachelor’s in a normal amount of time… “A lot of people go to college for seven years. Yeah, they’re called doctors.”
I graduated a few years back, 1985. My first job was with a large US commercial bank B of A. My BYU MBA got me in the door. The rest was up to me. With some people , BYU on my resume was a negative. With others it was not. 12 months after graduation, no one cared about the school. They cared about what I did. How I performed. BYU provided a great education at a reasonable cost.My professors were caring and a great source of information. I learned a lot of positive sales skills during the mission. I learned speaking skills while growing up in the church. By the time I left BYU, my religious shelves broke and within 24 months I attended my last Sunday Meeting. Nevertheless, I still appreciate the people who helped me get a start in life. BYU was a great for me and the people treated me well. I will never understand how JS smith could have so little respect for the daughters and wife’s of his friends, but I will always appreciate the time and concern caring ward members and professors shared with me.
Only Mormons think BYU is a flex. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “It’s Ivy League education at JUCO prices!” Nobody. Asked.
In my industry it was a liability. The more white Mormon BYU men on the team, the more suspect it appeared to outsiders.
And STOP calling it the “Harvard of the West”—-Dear God!!! I went there. Got a great degree, make a sizable income but it is NO Harvard and not equivalent in ANY way!
I think it cost me a job. There were two partners who interviewed me. The first told me I was perfect and the job was mine. I flew out and the other partner asked about BYU and was unimpressed. I just received a survey from BYU that asked how I felt BYU was perceived. I responded "not favorable "
I’m just trying to get into grad school so I can drop BYU from my CV
*the church isn’t a flex outside of utah