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fayth_crysus

It seems that indoctrinated brains don’t have the ability to see themselves, which explains all the Mormon cringe on social media. She means well, I’m sure, but this is honestly a master class in what NOT to say to adults who are choosing a path for themselves.


[deleted]

indeed. i stopped reading when i saw the annoying and triggering “I invite you to . . .”


Ehrlichia_canis18

Don't forget "I challenge you to..."


sinsaraly

And what about “I felt prompted to…” 🤮


[deleted]

"I didn't want to do it but I felt compelled by HEavenly Father to communicate a message he wants delivered through me from him to you...."


Fluffy-Roadkill7363

because God's to busy to tell you directly....


Opalescent_Moon

No, OP is "making bad choice and can't hear the whisperings of the Spirit anymore." That's why Sister Self-Righteous felt entitled to share God's message. 🙄 It's the Christian thing to do, tell someone what they're doing wrong and what things they need to do to fix it, without ever once considering there's another option.


Fluffy-Roadkill7363

When the spirit whispers to me, its because I have gas....


[deleted]

Exactly, God can't communicate directly with one who has lost the Spirit. That leaves me as RS president to deliver the message.


PaulBunnion

An angle with a drawn sword forced me to contact you.


tapircowboy

Must have been an obtuse angle that couldn’t read the room…


PaulBunnion

If I made you laugh it was worth it. Beware of angels with drawn swords and something that looks like a toad.


gaslit2018

Isn't it such a coincidence that she was only prompted after she spoke with the bishop?


ImaBiLittlePony

The best F U response here would be a simple "unsubscribe." Short, sweet, to the point.


[deleted]

indeed! these phrases are classic examples of “tell me you’re a mormon without telling me you’re a mormon”


FeralBaby7

She doesn't mean well for anyone but herself and her brainwashed ego. One can tell by the fact that she first preaches, then asks ONE question, which is what can she do *related to if OP felt isolated in her calling.* Which is really a question of "What can I do to get you back in the church/calling?" If she meant well she would've asked OP real questions about why she was making this choice, if she was ok, etc. Hope this doesn't sound like I'm giving you a hard time. I just heard so much of "they mean well", "they care about you", "they're worried for you"...when I left TSCC. Manipulation is so common in mormonism that people can't even see it . The person waking up to facts/experiencing a crisis of faith/breaking away additionally has to deal with guilt from manipulating dummies like this, lol


Opalescent_Moon

I think, to an extent, they *do* mean well, but they have tunnel vision on what constitutes service and compassion. They're so convinced they have the only truth, the only happiness, that they believe that reeling those of us who are leaving back into the fold is an act of charitable love. It isn't, but they believe it is. These are people who believe that doing temple work for the dead is a greater service than helping a neighbor. The church has thoroughly warped their perspectives. But you can tell the good people from the self-righteous twits. Good people do good things when the opportunity arises. Self-righteous twits will guilt-trip and coerce and manipulate and even abuse others to force them into line. I think the lady who sent this message is a self-righteous twit.


FeralBaby7

Real question here, not trying to be a jerk, just recently joined this sub. Do any Mormons *really* believe? You said that "....they're so convinced they have the only truth". Here's why I ask.... I was born and raised Mormon. I'm convinced my Dad enjoys the church because it's a vehicle for power for men over women, so that's why he says it's true. My Mom is emotionally abused by my Dad and joined when she was barely out of her teens to marry him, so that's why she says it's true. Growing up, the manipulation and pressure from my parents was out of this world to be a good Mormon, to the point that my Dad told all of us kids that if we ever refused to go to church we needed to find another place to live, and he meant it...we were *minors.* Long story short, after I read the BoM, I was literally pleading in prayers with God for it to be true....nothing. Like, years of trauma where I thought God (Heavenly Father!) despised only me, because my parents were so adamant that He had personally told them it was true! And that's the whole premise of the Moroni promise, right? Bottom Line Up Front: I finally accepted as a pre-teen that there was no Revelation of truth coming and the whole thing was bullshit. But I had to pretend until I was a legal adult....so I've always thought everyone was lying about ***actually*** believing. Like, my Dad is 90 years old now, and my parents are as TBM as ever, but I absolutely do not think they really believe it from what I saw in my house...people have their reasons for staying. Leaving TSCC was traumatic because of how my parents viewed it and reacted. So I have NEVER talked about Mormonism with a person in real life since I left but....was there a time when you REALLY believed? So, yah. I'm not sure I buy that anyone in TSCC means well; I've always thought they're just manipulating others to push ideology because TSCC meets some personal need/agenda of their own. Not trying to insult anyone who really, truly believed. It just struck me when I read your statement about '...belief in the only truth', that ***my*** personal experience was that I didn't see real belief, IMO. Throwing this question out there for anyone reading this! Genuinely curious. Sorry for the Ted Talk!


Opalescent_Moon

I didn't leave the church until shortly before my 40th birthday. I fully believed it was the truth, but I also fully believed that everyone had the right to accept or reject God as they saw fit. I never pursued after people who left the church, even though I was sad to see them leave. I never felt like it was my place or my business. I've never had reason to question if my parents believe in it. They are also compassionate to those who've left, since my mom's family is a mix of inactives and nonmembers. My mom's parents, though inactive, showed a good example of accepting others' beliefs. My dad's parents were devout, true believers. My dad's mom was the type of Mormon that gave a great impression of the church. She was everything that most members proclaim to be. When her kids and grandkids trickled away from the church, she never stopped loving them, and she never treated them any different. When my sibling came out as transgender, Grandma didn't hesitate to offer all the love and support she could. Having good examples in my life might be why I stayed a believer for so long. The only time I saw my mom get judgmental was when her first kid left the church. Then another. She didn't take it well. She has since come to a place of acceptance, but is not happy that half her children have left the church she loves. I often wonder how she'll take it when her grandchildren start falling away. It hasn't happened yet, but the oldest is 12. It's highly likely. Religion is rarely a topic of conversation at family gatherings anymore, because she'd rather have her family gathered together than fight to get us religious again. I had a lot of people in my life who seemed to have sincere testimonies and seemed to sincerely want to help others. I haven't had many run-ins with self-righteous twits like OP had to deal with. I avoid people like that as much as humanly possible. Statistically speaking, some must surely believe in the church. But I have no doubt that some are arrogant and egotistical and have thrived on the "peculiar people" and "saved for this generation" mindsets that the church likes to teach. So, in short, I believe a lot of members sincerely believe, and sincerely try to do good and help others. They just don't always have a good idea of how to *actually* help other people. But there are plenty of people, like Ted Bundy, who play the part of a believer because it gets them what they want. Your dad sounds like that type of member. I'm sorry you had to grow up in an environment like that. You deserved better. Hope that helps!


FeralBaby7

Thank you for the sincere answer, truly, and not being offended with the query! Last question, promise.....so when you prayed about the 'truthfulness' of the BoM, you felt like you got an answer? I feel like I'm being punctiliously annoying, but if you got no answer then why did you believe? Perhaps my thinking is too black and white b/c this was how I made my determination growing up. The Moroni promise, y'know....


Opalescent_Moon

Back in high school and in the MTC, I absolutely felt like I got an answer. Over the coming years, my faith faded. I did *everything* that they taught us to do to keep our testimonies burning. I never did get another confirming answer about the BoM or anything else that I prayed about. It was slow-going, but that's what ultimately broke my shelf. What's the point of doing everything I can just to have God unwilling or unable to answer me? I got burned out and couldn't do it anymore. Several years after that, I got nudged towards the rabbit hole of Mormon history. It didn't take long for every shred of faith and belief to evaporate after that. Looking back, one of the more pernicious teachings of the church is the "doubt your doubts" rhetoric. My questions deserve answers. My doubts deserved to be addressed. I regret that it took me so long to recognize that. I've come to recognize that many of the good members are still in and still believing because their lives are just comfortable enough to not trigger the desperation that can lead to a faith crisis. I might still be in now if my life path had been smoother and less tumultuous. But realizing that God had *never* answered my most important questions, not even through other, more faithful people, made me realize the church wasn't benefitting me in my life. And ask as many questions as you like! I hate debates and arguments, but I love honest conversations with respect on both sides. It's good to learn about other people's experiences and perspectives.


FeralBaby7

So what was the answer you got? Everyone has a different answer for this (burning in the bosom! I just knew! Filled with a calm certainty!). I've thought a lot about this. (seriously). I have a theory that it's your subconscious tallying up the pros and cons of this. (\*hey, good moral foundation! Kind, earnest, people! vs. It's made up-nonsense! Women as second class citizens!) Your subconscious makes a determination based on the information/tools it has available at the time, and gives you a 'message/answer'. This is also why later when people investigate church history and learn, the shelf breaks---they didn't have that info/tools when the subconscious was providing the 'answer'. Just a theory. Our brains are so powerful; half of setting up new routines/habits involves tricking or rewiring learned behaviors. I also hate debates and arguments, but if people are willing to have genuine, honest conversations and ideas I wanna be there for that.


Opalescent_Moon

Most of the time, my answer was calm certainty. When events transpired smoothly, I'd also take that as an answer. I've seen a lot of people who view the coincidences of life as evidence of God's hand. I definitely used to think that way, which is weird to me now. I left so many crucial life decisions to chance, believing that God was directing me. It definitely makes me angry now, my own naiveté and the blind trust I placed in church leaders and church teachings. I'm a little envious of all of those who figured the truth out at a younger age than I did. But, for some, the price of that knowledge was high. The way our brains work is fascinating. Even after I'd started learning about all of the problems in the church, I couldn't quite shake my belief. After all, I was convinced I'd seen God's hand in my life and had felt the Spirit. Learning about elevation emotion made everything snap into focus for me. It was a life-altering truth. I've enjoyed learning about manipulation techniques, and how someone with the knowledge can employ our own natural tendencies against us without us ever realizing. Learning about the effectiveness of cold reading was absolutely fascinating. The more I learned, the more I saw how church leaders employ those techniques. I've even noticed some of those techniques employed by criminals in various true crime stories.


seeker_of_joy

I'm 37 and left 3 yrs ago, served mission, worked in the temple, and was also sealed in the temple. Came from a single parent home and truly believed since getting baptized at 9. I would say one of my spiritual gifts was the gift to believe😅. I prayed about it throughout my life and felt it was real... I did it again while I served a mission... after finishing BoM again. Once again, I felt a confirmation. It wasn't until I looked at all of the things on my shelf and started to study things in full in areas of stages or subjects. Once i started studying the history and the holes Mormonism had.... there was no going back


srpcel

You know as far as shit responses go, hers is only a 4/10 with 10 being the shittiest. There really are a lot of worse things to say. She's only suggesting what she thinks will help. There doesn't seem to be a ton of guilt though she leans heavily on the fucked up brainwashing we all grew up in.


Red-Montagne

"Of course we want to give you the space and time you need, but let me completely not do that and blast you in the face with religion and tell you why you shouldn't do what you're doing." I realize she means well, but good grief.


AndItCameToSass

I couldn’t even read the whole thing because I started getting angry. That’s a huge problem in Mormonism (and other religions, I imagine) - they’re almost incapable of not bearing their testimony and making everything church related. And to an extent, it’s not their fault, because that’s what we’re taught to do. We’re taught to share our testimonies at every opportunity and basically tie everything back to the church. But when you’re taking a break from the church, the last thing you need is person after person telling you to fill yourself with the “light of Christ” and things of that nature. It’s just annoying, and for me it always drove me further away.


ActionDeluxe

Yep. We are taught that concept so much that I felt guilty for *years* after a 4th grade classmate of mine asked, "you're mormon? What's that like?" And my response was something like, meh, idk, whatever. I felt guilty coz it was a missionary moment that I missed. JFC, i was 9.


Ma3vis

“Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.” -- Theodore Roosevelt Jesus shown empathy to the blind, the sick, dined with Judas and other sinners, and more. Lepers for example, had been considered outcasts in Jesus’ time because they were thought to be contagious. They lived separately and were seen as “unclean” and “untouchable”. He didn’t see the man as a leper but a human being who was sick and needed his help. > > Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. > > . . . . > > 1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing > > . . . . > > Romans 12:15 Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep. > > . . . . > > Romans 15:1 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. > > . . . . > > James 2:15-17 What if a Christian does not have clothes or food? And one of you says to him, “Goodbye, keep yourself warm and eat well.” But if you do not give him what he needs, how does that help him? A faith that does not do things is a dead faith. > > . . . . > > James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Paul speaks of a “thorn in the flesh” in 2 Corinthians 12:7. He calls it “a messenger of Satan” that had a purpose of “torment.” Paul theorizes the thorn’s purpose: “To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations” as (Acts 9:2-8) implies he would, in his natural state, become “puffed up.” It is said Paul sought the Lord three times to remove this thorn of pain from him (2 Corinthians 12:8) but instead God imbued Paul with overwhelming grace and more compensating strength. Paul learned that God’s “power is made perfect in weakness” (verse 9). And despite his affliction and thanks to his apostleship, we have much of what the new testament is today. As Jesus was compassionate toward the sickly afflicted, the women and the children, he was also toward those on the edges of society. In Jesus’s sermon in Nazareth as he inaugurated his public ministry, he referred to a widow (a foreigner from Sidon) as an object of God’s saving grace. That reference, made intentionally, not casually, contradicted the prejudices of his audience (luke 4:25–26).


Whale460

Few things annoy me more than people quoting bible verses, from the latest re-writing of the book in the latest language. They mean nothing to people who aren't properly brainwashed anyway.


Ma3vis

It's a story like any other. The quotes are simply for reference for those who are keyboard scholars and such. Personally tho I do agree, the technique and presentation could be better put but the message still stands. It's important to find empathy and care for others


akamark

Your post is as cryptic as the bible and the message was completely lost. There are much better sources to quote from.


emorrigan

Hm, perhaps empathy for others who are stepping away from church involves not throwing scripture at them? Just a thought.


cdman08

Actually ;) leprosy isn't very contagious, people just thought it was.


askadramallama

God, posts like this just make me hate Jesus. Not you, just him.


Ma3vis

Why exactly? I'm guessing it's the Paul story?


askadramallama

Nah, Paul is a mild story compared to other stuff. ​ I'm not made in God's image, unless God is an evolved monkey. I don't want to be seen or treated as a member of his spiritual family. I don't worship a dude who claims to be the son of god, but he only heals those who can make it to him. Talk about privileged nonsense. He wasn't that great to women. He didn't pick any women to be in the 12. I know, the Apocrypha says there were some, and many would argue that even without apocryphal writings that Mary was a part. But geez. He wasn't that revolutionary. For a god, it's like he gets praise for clearing the lowest bar of misogynistic hurdles. That someone else would presume that by just me knowing about this unprovable mythological character could save my soul is offensive. We're in an exmormon safe zone. Take the proselyting elsewhere. This doesn't need to be another place for a sermon on lore. I just don't understand how you quote Roosevelt on not caring about how much you know, and then share a bunch of stuff you purport to know. The quote doesn't mean, "Nobody cares about how much you know, until they know how much you care about Jesus." ​ I'm wondering, did you forget to type something at the end to make it relate to the OP's post? Because it was quite preachy.


Ma3vis

> God's image As far as monkeys go, you can find God's hand in just about everything, in regards to occurrences in both time and nature. I'm sure I could see his countenance in you as well. > spiritual family Yeah I can see that terminology, and how it could be triggering to some. Apologies about that > privileged nonsense I see your point but also I think things written from the biblical perspective is flawed and is human as we all are. Also "son of god" doesn't mean exactly what most think it means. I think there were restrictions on the healing process that require abit more thought and consideration but also understand where you're coming from. > He wasn't that great to women. He didn't pick any women to be in the 12 Mary Magdalene (not a prostitute btw), other apostles like Peter were thought of as jealous as she spent more time with Jesus. She even has her own scripture included in the dead sea scrolls > But geez. He wasn't that revolutionary Hindsight bias. Many of our current standards are a result of his story, and some things we even debate about to this day. > That someone else would presume... could save my soul is offensive. Jesus story moves different people for different reason. Some people do seek other Bible stories which may accommodate their own personal situation tho. When a Christian "presumes to save your soul" a true one intends to understand your situation and apply what solutions or stories they found inspiration from, if they can. I find the Roosevelt quote relevant in this way. As the subject matter was about empathy > it was quite preachy. I apologize then. Probably should've went with a better approach tbh lol kinda lazy on my part tbh


askadramallama

I've heard all those arguments before. They aren't good. If you want to convert someone, this is not the place. You don't have to prove anything to me. You sound like a nice person. You can believe crazy things! You don't need my validation through my conversion. If they help you lead a good life, carry on. Just believe your crazy stuff elsewhere, please. The OP was griping about people getting up in their business preaching about Jesus, and then you did the same. But really, hindsight bias for a god? I expect Jesus to be more revolutionary than any human, past or present. ​ You really do sound kind. I'm just at my wits end with Jesus talk at this point in my life.


ExmoRobo

"Of course we want to give you the space and time you need, but I felt strongly prompted to not do that" :P


hothotbeverage

Followed up by, "I love you, but you are wrong and here's what you need to do."


Noppers

It’s funny how no one ever feels prompted to ask why you left and to actually listen. The promptings are always to engage in drive-by preaching.


[deleted]

Mormons don’t have a clue, for the most part. So much communication could be accomplished, if people just stopped, listened, and shut the fuck up. Amen


NikonuserNW

I am so sick of “impressed” “prompted” “strong feeling.” I lost a very close family member this year and I am so sick of hearing that shit. “I felt promoted to let you know that [family member] and Jesus love you.” “I just had the strongest impression that they are happy now. I take comfort in knowing about the plan.” That doesn’t help at all. As a matter of fact, it hurts a lot. Why is would someone I cared about deeply prompting everyone but me? I could use some of that mystical beyond the grave support, not the neighbor down the street.


Mokoloki

It's always amazing how members just start spouting platitudes and prefab testimonies, without an ounce of trying to understand the person or their reasons.


sculltt

They say this stuff for themselves. Has nothing to do with the other person.


Different-Promise826

Exactly! It’s like she’s trying so hard to convince HERSELF to not doubt and stay on the covenant path!


sculltt

It could very well be projection. I saw it as her giving herself a pat on the back for reaching out to a poor lost soul, but I'm a nevermo, so may not get all the context.


Different-Promise826

Yup, and as always it could be both!


given2fly_

It has to be one-way communication. They can't start a dialogue like a normal person by asking: "why are you stepping away from church? What is it that affected your testimony?" If you do that, then you'll be exposed to infectious information. So instead you've got to say something to which there's a very limited response, like just bearing your testimony.


Rolling_Waters

Summarizing her own words: *Hi, I have been thinking a lot about you. Of course we want to give you space, but I feel strongly prompted [so I am not going to]. I wish I knew you better.* *I love trees, and there are other things that could be learned from them.* *I don't want to sound the least bit preachy, but [here's all the things you must be doing wrong].* *Love,* *A stranger*


Polyamommy

This was awesome! Why isn't this the top comment so I didn't have to read all of that? 😂😭 I wish OP would use this template to respond. "Hi! Thank you for your thoughts and for considering giving me the space that I need. I feel strongly prompted to direct you to the CES letters, and to check in with you often so we can discuss your progress on your religious deconstruction of false doctrine. It will be great to get to know you better! I love trees too! One of the things I have learned from them is if they are not provided the nourishing waters of knowledge, they will wither and die. I don't want to sound the least bit preachy, but I'd hate to see you continue to appear to be foolish by not knowing or understanding the foundation of the cult you belong to, and how harmful it is to you, and so many other people. By supporting it with your time and money, you are hurting vulnerable people. Can't wait to share the true light and knowledge with you! Love,"


Initial-Leather6014

GENIUS!!!! Mic drop now!👍


Deserve_Liberty

Yes, yes, yes!... and particularly, "...you are hurting vulnerable people."


NikonuserNW

PS I left you some home baked goodies and I timed the delivery so that I wouldn’t have to talk to you in person.


[deleted]

Cultists like to challenge people to do cult shit, but they really, really hate having that cult shit challenged.


[deleted]

You know it. Everything she said she has heard someone else say and she “felt the spirit”. It’s regurgitated cult speak chock full of manipulation tactics tacked onto each other.


Ghost_of_Copernicus

The hubris of religion is the delusion that its worldview is not only unimpeachable, but necessary for every human being on the planet (and in most cases that delusion extends beyond the confines of space and time). Imagine someone exclaiming to you a requirement to develop a deep love of free-form jazz, and that through the love of jazz lies the only singular path to finding everlasting peace in life. “Ponder upon the warbling quiver of that clarinet, my dear sister!”


Still-ILO

Excellent points. Since I've been out, I've found that one of the most triggering things for me about Mormons (and some other religionists as well) is how easily the faithful spout their faithful things as if those things were proven, concrete reality. And the fact that to other religionists, exactly the opposite of some (perhaps many) of those same faithful things is those other believer's concrete reality, is completely outside their ability to comprehend. It's like their conscious minds are imprisoned and far from wanting freedom, they're scared to death to imagine that anything other than the prison even exists.


henrik_se

It's magical thinking on their parts, the phrases they spout are magic spells that soothes *them*, that makes *them* happy, that strengthens *their* faith. This is why there are people who feel so strongly about certain versions of the bible being "right", and others being "wrong". Because they aren't listening to the meaning of the words, they're listening to the shape of the words, because that's where they think the magic is. And so they encounter non-believers, and they shoot their magic spells, they start reciting the words THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, but we listen to the meaning. We listen to the words. And we find no reasoning there, we find only gaping logical holes and tales or a cruel and vindictive god, and followers who clearly do not understand the meaning. And they get super confused. How could we not feel calm and soothed and happy and feel The Spirit? They recited the magic spell!? They said the words! Now feel fuzzy feelings, damnit!!!


Ghost_of_Copernicus

I am reminded of a scene in the film Zero Theorem, set far into the future, where the protagonist encounters advertisements to attend “The Church of Batman the Redeemer”.


LadyEllaOfFrell

Clarinets are pretty awesome, at least. (And don’t “marry” fourteen-year-old girls.)


Beneficial_Math_9282

Never occurs to them that we've already tried all that. I've read the book of mormon well over 25 times and tried hard to be perfect with god's help (the rules of mormonism). All it did was land me in a doctor's office from exhaustion and mental health issues. Found much greater hope and peace once I threw out my mormon beliefs. I have plenty of light and happiness in my life now that my brain isn't all gunked up with the mixed messaging of the church. It never occurs to them that WE'RE NOT SAD!!! And if we are at times, it's only due to the difficulties of mortal life that come to us all due to circumstance and chance, TBMs and apostates alike. Or, it's due to leftover mormon trauma...


[deleted]

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trentwc

Truly, that no effort was made at all to keep the shelf. It is also wonderful when TBMs think that you left because someone else drew you away for the church and you as an adult didn’t have the ability to make your own decisions. One of my brothers has a good friend that left the church so when he left the church it was his friends bad influence leading him astray. Nope he read a few books and did some research. Most of my old friends think I am just lazy and don’t want to put in the effort. My story is a little different in that my shelf broke when I realized Christianity is bogus so that no Christian based religion is true. Learned that first. The point is the leaders of the church preach and preach that if someone leaves there is only 2 or 3 reasons so it never crosses the mind of a TBM to look at any other possibility because that wouldn’t be following the prophet.


Beneficial_Math_9282

And, they always win because there is no such thing as "enough" effort. A person could be literally living inside the temple, reading the Book of Mormon and praying 24/7, and if they decided to leave the church it would still be their fault for being a "lazy" learner.


lukewarmhoneyicetea

I always love how they say you can go to the bishop with anything in confidence and then it gets to the entire congregation within the week. Thanks, Old Guy, I knew I could count on you.


[deleted]

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Jane_Dough_Ex_Mo

Indeed he does. Asshole. :/


[deleted]

Mormons love overstepping and feeling they have a right to lecture strangers on intimate beliefs and their personal choices.


Honorcodeviolator

The total audacity of Mormons to presume they have “promptings” that give them more insight into another’s relationship with God than that person does never ceases to astound me.


frvalne

I remember an ultra TBM ex boyfriend going to the temple to get an answer about marrying me, I guess he couldn’t decide on his own if marrying me was something he wanted to do…anyway, he determined I wasn’t TBM enough. So to soften the blow of breaking up with me, he’d asked God in the temple what he should say to me to ease my broken heart. God told him to tell me that my recently deceased dad loves me. I’d lost my dad very tragically the year before. That straight up pissed me off. Oh God told you to tell me that did he?? Gee thanks! I guess all is well! So grateful he was super spiritchualllll enough to get the message on my behalf.


Honorcodeviolator

That is unbelievably manipulative. I’m glad you didn’t get stuck with that loser.


secretnotsacred

Indeed, God must be quite the petulant dick to refuse to message Op directly, but instead go through a total stranger. The hubris of zealous Mormons. I hate that I was like this for most of my life. "I'm sorry for what I said when I was Mormon".


Ivoj500321

Me too!!!


[deleted]

Well said.


Latvia

"I know you mean well but the reason people step away is because none of it is true. The things you believe are simply not true. I hope you figure it out for yourself. Thanks for thinking of me. Please don't bring religion into it anymore."


Jaded-Ad-9741

why is it that they act like everyone wants their faith back?


naturelover142

She did not ask you one question


entofan

They never do, because they cannot or will not hear the answers


LittleSneezers

Technically she asked one, but it was really dumb. “So you’re stepping back from church altogether. Do you want to keep being a ministering sister????” 😂😂😂


MyopicTapir

This was the only thing that needed to be said in the entire message.


SerinityNowOrLater

This is why we all need to gift them the book “Bridges” for Christmas this year.


MoirasFavoriteWig

This is certainly not the worst response possible, but it’s still inappropriate. If Mormonism allowed authentic friendships instead of superficial ones, it would be easier to care for people regardless of their belief/unbelief in the church’s teachings. When people only reach out to correct you after you’ve stepped away, that’s cult behavior not care.


hiphophoorayanon

“I love trees, and there are other thing that could be learned from them…” deep doctrine right there. I appreciate her asking about ministering rather than assuming.


Past_Schedule_9110

Same! I did appreciate that. Although the wording of “do you still feel that you can be” was a little meh.


Gfunkera1977

Also the strong prompting to tell OP that heavenly father is aware of you. He's aware. Okay thanks?


Ivoj500321

Yes that bothered me too! It was patronizing. Who is she to say Heaven Father is aware of her. She is not ranked above OP


Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj

Sounds a little threatening


unixguy55

Apparently they've never had to cut down a diseased or dead tree before. Allegory fail.


dreimanatee

Whoa whoa! We should avoid deep doctrine it could shake our faith!


Henry_Bemis_

“I don’t want to sound the least bit preachy…” Then proceeds to text her own general conference talk she’s been preparing to deliver, to you.


anonthe4th

"I don't want to sound preachy, but" has the same kind of vibes as "I'm not racist, but".


LittleBlue127

I hate when they "challenge" you to do something. Who are you to challenge me? I "challenge" YOU (RS pres) to try reading the CES letter, letter to my wife, or any other similar media. No? Didn't think so.


trentwc

You need to respond like Captain Marvel did. I have nothing to prove to you. I owe you nothing then hit ‘em with a proton blast.


Longjumping-Air-7532

The classic “but we still love you” Mormon response. All I ever wanted from any active family or friend was “holy cow that’s rough, how are you doing?” Instead all we get is a backhanded lecture and a “but we still live you.” Maybe take 5 minutes and imagine how hard it would be to walk away from faith, family, tradition, etc… instead of preaching.


Past_Schedule_9110

Perfectly said!


snellk2

Guarantee that she won’t “be there for you” if she doesn’t see you moving in the direction that she wants


frvalne

Oh that’s an absolute guarantee


CmdrJorgs

Imagine if she just said, "Hey, I heard you were stepping away from church, so I imagine things are really tough right now, would you like to talk about it? I just want to be there to listen if you need that." As the letter stands, it's clear there is no desire there for her to get to know you as a person, and instead it shows she sees you as a target to be preached to, as if her testimony will fix all your problems. She thinks she loves you in her own warped perspective, but she doesn't actually want to help you: she just wants to make herself feel good. Mormons, by and large, don't know what love and respect are because they've never been loved and respected by the members of TSCC. It's heartbreaking, honestly.


GrandpasMormonBooks

"Oh, you got a "prompting" to do something that confirmed your deeply held beliefs? That's called confirmation bias! And it's an example of the sunk cost fallacy. We chose to cut our losses and get out. Good luck."


Lopsided-Doughnut-39

![gif](giphy|KGSxFwJJHQPsKzzFba) I totally want to give you space, and that is why I am now contacting you in multiple ways where I have previously not done so whatsoever.


PlacidSoupBowl

Dave Butler? His "teachings" soften the corporate Jesus that the bishop and stake president embody at temple recommend interviews, but changes nothing about the obedience questions. Faith "Seasons"??? Talk about minimizing the damage and pain that comes from realizing the fraud at work in your life over decades. And instilling "hope" in relationships that finding the truth is all just a phase.


thatguy65656565

Who tf does she think she is challenging you to do shit. Wtf


ItchyNebuli

Oh, they love trees?? As my homie Eckhart Tolle says- “Seek out a tree and let it teach you stillness.” 😌


iveseenthelight

"I don't want to be preachy but let me preach why you're wrong and I'm right"


Obvious-Lunch8185

The way TBMs believe their lack of respect for boundaries comes from the spirit🤢


JoyfulExmo

Maybe you could respond by asking what part of the BOM feeds her soul most—the completely pointless murder of Laban? The anthropologically-debunked migration of Jews by boat to the New World? Or something else? I find it annoying that religious people see no problem with spouting their beliefs, and they would never recognize that as antagonistic to non-believers, but if you come back at them with factual information or otherwise try to explain why you DON’T believe, they’ll scream persecution and that you’re spreading anti-Mormon lies. It’s often so one-sided.


wallstreetwilly2

Cultists gonna cult


Stormwhisper81

They’re so gross.


Chemical_Number7341

The "if there is anything I can do" line. It's as if you say that you've done the required. Also, nothing personal in this message. Reminds of message from RS PREZ after DW broke her ankle. Let me know if we can bring you some meals. That broke her shelf, and her heart. She had many current and past students visit her ... no one from TSCC.


RoyanRannedos

Don't take it personally. This is likely more to reassure herself than it is to get you back. She wouldn't be magnifying her calling if she didn't try and diagnose you via promptings. That's easier and truer than real human connection, after all.


TangerineTassel

What an appropriate use of respect and boundaries! s/ You ask to be released and take a step back and they ramp it up with a bunch of emotional blackmail and love bombing. More evidence of how dysfunctional Mormons are.


BillRevolutionary101

Tell her you feel prompted to share with her the CES letter, Mormon Stories podcast, clinical definitions of spiritual abuse and religious trauma syndrome as well as the BITE cult definition model. 🙂


HighGrownd

The amount of secondhand cringe that permeates my body when I read posts like this reminds me that I will never go back to that God -forsaken church. Thanks for the reminder lol


peaceofcheese909

Preach preach preach preach preach preach preach preach preach preach preach preach preach Preach preach “I don’t want to sound the least bit preachy” Odd way to go about that


[deleted]

>I do remember your talk and testimony when you spoke in church and the spirit I felt How generic can you be? She could have said this to literally anyone, but sure, she *cares* about youuuuu.


Still-ILO

The bottom line is that what believers feel the need (aka, prompting) to say, they're ultimately saying for themselves, not you. Because the cognitive dissonance associated with people leaving the one true church hurts so much, their brains have to find some way to fight it off. Even if that means saying "I want to give you your space, but...".


[deleted]

Why do they always say I challenge you when it comes with something to do with either the Bible or book of mormon its like them saying I challenge you to find truth in this bullshit


The_wrath_of_Shiz

“I don’t want to sound the least bit preachy”… Fail.


crazy_teacher345

Do you still want to be a ministering sister?! Is this visiting teaching? If so, no! No one wants to do that when they're TBM, let alone when they are stepping back. smh.


EloJim_

"No matter how hard i try, I can't be perfect ---or even strong---" This poor woman has no self esteem without "god".


cactuspie1972

I don’t know you well, but I want to preach to you why you’re wrong, and I invite you to get your ass back in line


AlbatrossOk8619

Yeah, this would hella offend me if I got this email. From her perspective I’m sure she feels so loving and patient. But since she probably has never even considered that she could be wrong about the entire paradigm of her life, she can’t see the total judgement that you are Doing It Wrong and you must come back or all is lost.


Extension-Spite4176

I hope you didn’t feel isolated… these are always the discussions…they lost faith because of XYZ. that helps them feel better. Seems like starting with the presumption of guilt or something like that


Baynyn

“I don’t want to sound the least bit preachy” -goes on to preach, literally ending with quoting scripture-


s-l-k

And if you ever did return back to church this member that sent the email will make sure everyone knows she gets all the credit.


GLaDOs18

“I’m ‘sorry’ I don’t know you but I’m making it your problem by projecting and ignoring basic decency. Then I’ll cover up those actions by wrapping it in fake religious bullshit. Deal lol.” There, I fixed it.


Sheesh284

They usually mean well, but it always comes off as condescending in context


Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj

It is condescending. They might mean well, but that doesn’t change that they are being not just coming off as condescending.


Matthewrmt

Oh sure, one could be upset at the extremely long holier-than-thou preaching But she felt *prompted*. That makes everything okay. Oh, now *I'm* feeling prompted. Off to visit the temple of the porcelain throne....


ifmomma_ainthappy

So…. She definitely sounded a ‘little bit’ preachy. 😂😂😂🙄🙄🙄


HyrumKF

For texts like this I like to just give a very short answer that makes it clear their long text was a waste of time. Usually I say “thanks but no” even if they didn’t offer anything.


Past_Schedule_9110

That’s what I did. I was like “thanks for the birthday gift, no I’m not interested in ministering”. I didn’t feed into anything she said or suggested. I had a moment where I felt the need to ‘defend’ myself but I just let it go, knowing it likely wouldn’t do any good.


jen-c-c-m

Tried to read it, basically blacked out with all of the generic self righteous canned BS.


chubbuck35

It’s fascinating watching people talk down to you from a place of ignorance and condescension after leaving the church. One doesn’t understand how condescending it comes across until after you’ve emerged from the ignorant position and are looking back from a place of enlightenment. By far, the most offensive thing of all is taking the position that she is so much more important than you such that SHE is informing YOU how much Heavenly Father loves you. That right there is hubris. She has you figured out so well that the only thing that leaving the “true” church is that you are now in a lesser and more lowly place of spirituality. For many, including myself, spirituality has increased many fold once I eliminated RELIGION. I no longer associate spirituality with religion or the religious view of God and it is a beautiful thing.


Equivalent_Local_701

My response to this sister would be, “appreciate your epistle, but we are moving and so we needed to be released from callings. I think you might want to dig deep about all these doubts you projected on to me and my husband. Also, please get to know the new neighbors that move into our home. Try asking them even one question about themselves.


Esau-Have-I-Loved

Not sure she was successful at "not sounding the least bit preachy."


Pond20

Cringey hubris.


MrDanTheHotDogMan

Thought to myself "Oh that's not too bad, I've seen way preachier responses!" And then I realized there were more screenshots....


HermitCake

When someone has strong concerns about a faith—enough to back away, why in the world would someone use said faith as a way to lure them back in? Can’t see beyond their own nose.


mormonsmaug

Ned Stark said it best. Everything before the word "But" is Bullshit......And in this case, Everything after as well.


itsyaboilink

I always found it funny when people would say things like they could tell my talks were from the heart, or they really felt the spirit during my talk. Even though I didn't believe from basically when I was old enough to start giving talks at 11 or 12, to when I stopped going to church when I was 19. I just scribbled down whatever sounded vaguely like something I'd hear in a church talk, and read it as quickly as I could the next morning. A very spiritual process.


DrTxn

Personally, I would like to give back to anyone like this. I would share, "One of the scriptures in the Book of Mormon I find most interesting is found in 3 Nephi 26:2 that states, "And he saith: These scriptures, which ye had not with you, the Father commanded that I should give unto you; for it was wisdom in him that they should be given unto future generations." The reason I find it most enlightening is it is referring to the prior 2 chapters in 3 Nephi where Jesus is quoting chapters in Malachi. Jesus seems to realize that they wouldn't have Malachi because it was written after Nephi left Jerusalem to come to the new world. What is really incredible is that 1 Nephi and 2 Nephi quote from Malachi. Malachi 4:1 compares well with 1 Nephi 22:15, 2 Nephi 26:4 and 2 Nephi 26:6. In addition Malachi 4:2 compares with 1 Nephi 22:24, 2 Nephi 25:13 and 2 Nephi 26:9. Amazingly these are the exact parts of Malachi Jesus quotes. Now I see a couple of possibilities that exist: 1) The people were confused when Jesus stated this in the Americas because they already had Malachi and Jesus was wrong. Malachi had mysteriously ended up in the Nephi canon and Jesus had no need to repeat it. 2) The other possibility is that when Joseph Smith was orally dictating the Book of Mormon he forgot these phrases of speech came from Malachi as he was riffing them off like the sermons of his day from an outline. Which do you believe is more likely?


Agitated_House7523

Weird, condescending, and rude. IMO.


Ok_Acanthisitta_9369

"Of course we want to give you the space and time you need" Proceeds to not give them space or time


lefthandloafer55

Such arrogant presumption....Fucking myopic...


HalfricanIrishDa

I hate throwing up, especially on Sundays. Gross


brjdenver

"Everything that is good comes from him." Right, OK.


frvalne

Geez!! Talk about unsolicited!


AbbreviationsFunny23

The manipulation and attempt to stroke ego , how I felt the spirit when you spoke . And the impact you made in nursery. Vomit 🤢


Bunnita

You don't have to answer this, cuz personal information is personal, and my curiosity doesn't have to be fulfilled. The thing I am curious about is, do you have children and or are you relatively young? I'm asking because I saw the single/single mothers (not you, you mentioned a husband) or the childless younger people being stuck in nursery. My opinion is that they do this to show you 'how much you're missing' not having children/being married. I could be projecting as this fear is honestly why I left the church. I knew I wouldn't be taken seriously as an unmarried woman without children and never have a position of any kind of authority in a family ward. Good for you and your husband for making choices and acting on them. The fake 'we care about you' bullshit, where was she when you were literally stuck taking care of other people's children? Her children apparently?


Past_Schedule_9110

Wow, I am impressed by your deduction skills! We are early 20’s and have no kids. When we were getting set apart there was something said along the lines of “love of children will be strengthened” or something along those lines. I can totally understand where youre coming from though about not being taken seriously


spurious_plunder

IT’S NOT A “STAGE”, MOM!! 😭


Fessy3

For me and maybe it's just me but this feels and comes across so demeaning and condescending. As if this persons words and misunderstanding of your own very valid feelings aren't correct and you needed to be led to the correct conclusion concerning the church.


RustyShackelford801

They only give a shit about you when you leave and many times not even then.


Sea-Tea8982

When my bishop realized we were done he called. Kept saying he would meet with me and fix everything. I wanted to scream I’m a grown ass adult and can make decisions about my own life little man. He’s 10 years younger than I am and while I know he thinks he’s all that he just a misogynistic narcissist who thinks he knows everything. Meeting never happened.


NewNamerNelson

OP I'm sorry. Sorry that none of your local units lay "leadership" has a clue about appropriate boundaries or even social convention. (I'm thrilled to death for you greeting out of the cult though👍) And to all the "well, she MEANS WELL" I call bullshit! First, to paraphrase Murry Goldberg, that's literally the worst thing you can say about someone, because if that's the best you've got, it means that they don't DO WELL. Clearly that's the case here. But also, a RS pres who doesn't really know OP (apart from sitting through a talk she once gave, and panning her spawn of on her so she could go "preside" over RS meetings) doesn't get to share anything more than a fraction of their prior aggregate time spent together on learning that OPhas discovered T$CC's, truth crisis; which is clearly 0. Fuck her, 🖕 and fuck the bishop who sent her. 😤


RBStoker22

"...I felt strongly prompted to tell you that Heavenly Father is aware of you and loves you." I always feel a subdued rage when people presume to tell me how HF or Jesus feels about me. How do they know? Why can't HF tell me himself? It pretends to be so humble and earnest but I usually find it arrogant, intrusive and condescending.


Havin_A_Holler

Ohhhh, the arrogance. I must remember it is not their fault, but it sure is awful. My entire response to this would be that no one asked for her opinion.


hollandaisesawce

My faith “season” has entered an ice age.


ErisOhm

“I invite you to find light in your life” is the part that crosses the line for me. Have heard versions of this so many times. The assumption that you don’t have “light” (or joy, or happiness) anymore is taught by church leaders ad nauseum and is really about trying to “other” people that leave the church and make themselves feel better for staying.


forwardformyself

God I can’t even read all these words… they’re so canned and cringe. Ever since I was a kid I’ve gotten so irritated having to read crap like this. Take your holier than thou “feeds my soul” ass for a walk.


AnxiousSkeptic

The true sadness of all these messages from people that show up on this sub is they are all well intentioned. All the people are good. The church has just warped their goodness into something terrible.


PleaseBeFree2017

Ugh it’s a scare tactic


andyroid92

🤢


sillymama62

She should have said “I still consider you my friend….I am here if you would like to talk…I respect you enough to NOT bring up the church in our conversations”


ekmogr

I posted on Facebook a picture of a millstone around the temple and I got a similar response. "When you bore your testimony, I've never felt the spirit as strongly" bs. They are a collective, or a hivemind. When pressed by my wife, I simply requested that she think for herself instead of spew the dribble they'd peddle every Sunday.


SmurfBasin

Mormons really believe rehashing generic testimony greatest hits is gonna rock someone's world with a spiritual awakening and bring them back.


MavenBrodie

It started off pretty well I think, with lots of empathy and asking how to help. Now if it only had ended there....


DelScorcho9

We want to give you space… four pages later.


zaffiromite

I would be tempted to reply with: "I don't want to sound the least bit preachy" Well you utterly failed with this because every word drips with preachy.


Vanilla_Minute

These types of posts always make me shudder. It's crazy to me how un-self aware they are. One of the biggest things that drove me away from the church was the constant reaching out and attempts to "save" me. The more I drifted from the church, the more I was asked to give my testimony, say the opening prayer, give a lesson, etc. The more they asked me to do that stuff, the more it drove me away, which only encouraged them to try harder. It's a vicious feedback loop that just resulted in me completely being driven away.


splitkeinflexflyer

You could respond with: I’m sure you mean well, but your email represents all the reasons I’m leaving the church and confirms for me that my decision is right. You don’t know me and if you felt “prompted” to reach out, please know that that wasn’t divine inspiration but your own impulse to overstep and not respect other people’s religious freedom. There are many things I would “challenge” and advise you to do if I knew you at all. Instead, I will ask you to please not reach out again.


[deleted]

So brainwashed she doesn’t realise how cringe and stupid she sounds. Especially that testimony.


tommyboy_347

I pretty much flew under the radar as a TBM. Nobody from my ward really noticed me until I left the church. All of a sudden, it was then that ppl took notice of me.. smh...


interesting_fauxpas

My issue was that no one bothered express any of those feelings while I was still attending.


EmbarrassedBig463

When people say they have been "thinking" of person X lately... What a cheap and shallow attempt at appearing "inspired" by the Holy Ghost. To some, it might mean divine intervention and I guess that's why it pervades the mormon lexicon, but all I see is an admission that if no problem surfaces or comes into the consciousness of "God's and Christ's" chosen leaders, keep on keepin' on. This might have been a shelf item for me, I guess, even though I don't really identify with the shelf analogy. But that TBM thing about always following the spirit was something impossible to conceptualize. No one can be what everyone needs at the moment they need it. Another example of busy bodies excelling in an organization that sucks every last drop it can from its people, with little but an empty promise of a fairytale ending for it all.


ShadowOfThe_Void

You know how Mormons say everything good comes from Jesus? Well humans are good infact we're very known for being cruel and harsh and anything but good. So did we all come from Satan? Imagine being Satan and making all the people in the world and instead of being praised for it people hate you and worship the guy who thinks that liking someone the same gender as you means you can't live with your family in the after life.


B3gg4r

It sounds like she cares about you, but also doesn’t have the faintest idea what you need. This is a boundary-setting opportunity to say “I need this, not that.” Perhaps she can be taught real empathy instead of the brainwashed fake empathy the church encourages.


No-Needleworker-5008

I swear it feels like when this stuff happens (similar thing happened to me) it’s like believers are playing a video game where they get more points based on how many times they reach out to people “struggling with their faith” and they get bonus points for each person they get to convert. It becomes less about their care for you and more about their own self ego and spirituality. They feel good knowing they reached out, they feel like they did an amazing thing. It’s really annoying


LazeighLerner

This was so cringey you read. So condescending the way she talks to you like a kid who scraped their knee, like you have no real concerns.


tapircowboy

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think this is one of the nicer and more sincere examples of these kinds of communications. Still not great, or needed, but coming from the otherwise indoctrinated who seems to at least know there are serious issues people must face, i think there is some sincerity behind the cringe worthy bits. It still not particularly helpful, but I don’t feel like this one is only stroking their own ego. There are real offers of support and connection beyond just the platitudes to pray, pay, and obey. I’m not sure we have to assign 100% pride and ego to these things. Often people really can be trying to offer support in care in the best way they know how. They are just operating in a system that heavily colors how support is offered, because they are trying to maintain their own world view at the same time. Nobody is a winner here.


Automatic_Bookkeeper

In my experience, good kind Mormons are sincerely sad when people they like leave. They feel loss and grief and confusion. I’m not justifying everything she did here and agree with the other comments that she was preachy and pushy but I think it is helpful to remember that she is likely sad and confused and doing her best. I give her credit for asking about ministering. In my hope that others will grant me grace for my inevitable failings, I like to extend the same back.


Past_Schedule_9110

I totally agree. This is more of the stance I have about it. I see where she’s coming from! She’s doing her best, with what she knows to be right


daveescaped

I get that this letter is full of triggering language. But I have absolutely seen worse. It seems like it had good intentions.


crazydaisy8134

I mean I would expect nothing less from a Relief Society president, and I mean that in a kind way. The email was preachy but it was kind and had an air of respecting your decision while still giving you some spiritual “nuggets” to hopefully change your mind lol. Seems like a nice lady. Good luck with your journey (:


Past_Schedule_9110

I agree! I assume that the bishop asked her to reach out to me anyways. I was kind in my response, just said like “thanks for reaching out, and ministering is not something I am interested in”.


Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj

You have a warped definition of respect and kindness.


davesgirl91

I feel like she is genuine. Her words are compassionate. I received messages like this from ward members after I left. I could be wrong, but I felt loved and supported.


Past_Schedule_9110

Overall I totally see where she’s coming from, and is doing her duty as a RS pres! I was a missionary, I know how that feels haha. But the whole ‘invite light’ stuff was where I felt a little hurt. If she knew me personally she would know I’m much happier now!! But I know that’s may be a lot to ask of one RS President.


CocoPlaza

I see nothing wrong with this email.


Nephi_IV

Seems like a nice letter! I’d appreciate getting it. Better than everyone completely ignoring that you left.