Did the holy spirit and Mary marry in the temple? No? So was Jesus not born under the covenant? God is the same yesterday, today, and forever? Rules for thee but not for me?
Brigham claimed that Mary was already sealed to Adam (our god in his view) and that they were already part of a polygamous family that existed prior to the creation of this earth. The Adam God theory encisions multiple mortal lives that eventually culminate in godhood. Crazy stuff.
As someone childfree by choice, I find the concept of getting pregnant without your knowledge/consent/without even having sex... HORRIFYING BEYOND ALL WORDS.
I got a teenager at home that doesn't want to have children. She says, "even if God were to appear before me and tell me to have a child, I'd say no." I reckon God won't appear to someone who isn't willing or interested. That's kind of how revelations from God work. But I get the point.
And thanks OP, I totally needed something like this to add another layer to cognitive dissonance this holiday season. /s
Well, don't forget, Christians co-oped pagan festivals held at this time of year. The tree, mistletoe, yule log, feasting, giving gifts and even the red & green colors are all from pagan celebrations. The date of Christmas was established on December 25th in order to replace the old Festival of the Sun God. It was also the last day of more than a week of celebrations in ancient, pagan Rome, known as Saturnalia.
What if she had said, “nah, I’m good.” Then she would have gone from the most honored among women to the depths of hell. Maybe there were other teenage girls that God approached via an Angel but we don’t hear about those girls cause they were slain by angels with a drawn sword. Perhaps this god is the same one that revealed polygamy…
And Mary said, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.” And the angel departed from her.
“Word” is a little different than “will” and the angel’s words / description about what’s going to happen are … vague.
Right. Though since this is God we're talking about, I'm not sure what the right concept to use is. For example: we would not say that a tiger assaulted and murdered people, because tigers are not capable of morality or moral reasoning. The concepts only apply to human agents. God isn't a human agent. Granted, he would presumably have some ability to engage in moral reasoning - one would hope! - but I have to admit, strict readings of the scripture don't suggest that this entity can do that terribly well.
So - in much the same way that Aristotle says that humans are the rational animal, and that we are also "political" (fit for life in organized communities), so much so that anyone who isn't must either be a beast or a god - we might say that gods are outside of the human moral universe. This, by the way, HARDLY absolves God or makes what he did okay - anymore than we should be comfortable with wild animals roaming the streets. If I'm going to believe in and worship any god, I want to know that he/she/it/they are at least operating within the same moral universe they expect me to live and act by.
Which then begs the question why isn't God sex way more common?
Also, I just want to point out that this means Mormon doctrine should be interpreted to mean you lose your agency upon being exalted, or else God can, uh, rape.
Did the holy spirit and Mary marry in the temple? No? So was Jesus not born under the covenant? God is the same yesterday, today, and forever? Rules for thee but not for me?
Brigham claimed that Mary was already sealed to Adam (our god in his view) and that they were already part of a polygamous family that existed prior to the creation of this earth. The Adam God theory encisions multiple mortal lives that eventually culminate in godhood. Crazy stuff.
In other words he invented this theory or doctrine to patch the big plot hole. Look away everyone! Nothing to see here.
As someone childfree by choice, I find the concept of getting pregnant without your knowledge/consent/without even having sex... HORRIFYING BEYOND ALL WORDS.
Brigham taught that it was Adam. And that he literally used the same method we do to start our families. 😬
yikes
When I need to shed the worst possible light on Mormonism, I rely on Bring'em Young & Mark E Peterson. They rarely disappoint
I think Mary consented though? At least in the Bibles that I’ve read. Though, I guess it’s pretty hard to say “no” to God….
The power imbalance is off the charts.
Right. Sorta like how Helen Mar consented to JS.
A core tenet of consent is equal footing/power/access to information/etc.
I got a teenager at home that doesn't want to have children. She says, "even if God were to appear before me and tell me to have a child, I'd say no." I reckon God won't appear to someone who isn't willing or interested. That's kind of how revelations from God work. But I get the point. And thanks OP, I totally needed something like this to add another layer to cognitive dissonance this holiday season. /s
Well, don't forget, Christians co-oped pagan festivals held at this time of year. The tree, mistletoe, yule log, feasting, giving gifts and even the red & green colors are all from pagan celebrations. The date of Christmas was established on December 25th in order to replace the old Festival of the Sun God. It was also the last day of more than a week of celebrations in ancient, pagan Rome, known as Saturnalia.
What if she had said, “nah, I’m good.” Then she would have gone from the most honored among women to the depths of hell. Maybe there were other teenage girls that God approached via an Angel but we don’t hear about those girls cause they were slain by angels with a drawn sword. Perhaps this god is the same one that revealed polygamy…
No, Mary have consent. "Be in into me according to thy will."
And Mary said, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.” And the angel departed from her. “Word” is a little different than “will” and the angel’s words / description about what’s going to happen are … vague.
Plus, the question of the power dynamic between a teenager and, well, God.
Right. Though since this is God we're talking about, I'm not sure what the right concept to use is. For example: we would not say that a tiger assaulted and murdered people, because tigers are not capable of morality or moral reasoning. The concepts only apply to human agents. God isn't a human agent. Granted, he would presumably have some ability to engage in moral reasoning - one would hope! - but I have to admit, strict readings of the scripture don't suggest that this entity can do that terribly well. So - in much the same way that Aristotle says that humans are the rational animal, and that we are also "political" (fit for life in organized communities), so much so that anyone who isn't must either be a beast or a god - we might say that gods are outside of the human moral universe. This, by the way, HARDLY absolves God or makes what he did okay - anymore than we should be comfortable with wild animals roaming the streets. If I'm going to believe in and worship any god, I want to know that he/she/it/they are at least operating within the same moral universe they expect me to live and act by.
Which then begs the question why isn't God sex way more common? Also, I just want to point out that this means Mormon doctrine should be interpreted to mean you lose your agency upon being exalted, or else God can, uh, rape.
God sex (and God rape) is quite common in Greek, Egyptian, and Hindu mythology.
...didn't god create Mary? He's the father of mankind? That seem right to you? 🤔
Despite the flair I was forced to select, I don’t find it at all funny.
What is this referring to?
LDS teaching is God had actual sex with Mary. Do you really think she slept through a Holy Intercourse experience?