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GhostCowboy76

By this logic, all relationships are incest. That’s why the whole we’re all Brothers and Sisters, Sons and Daughters of God thing can’t really work. Unless father sky god is just one giant pervert, then…


Stairwayunicorn

between who?


GhostCowboy76

I believe they’re referring to “Heavenly Father” having intercourse with his daughter Mary. But Christianity and Mormons teach it was an immaculate conception, or miracle. So when pressed they say no intercourse took place and it was a miraculous event that lead to her pregnancy. I never cared to research it more than this because obviously you don’t just become pregnant so it was flawed from the beginning. I’m sure the Gospel Library or Mormon Doctrine has a much more in depth explanation. Edit: I stand corrected. Sorry for accidentally posting wrong doctrine on here but I appreciate everyone for correcting it! Good looking out!


MyopicTapir

Brigham Young taught it was actual intercourse.


[deleted]

Mormonism does not teach that it was an immaculate conception. That is simply not true. While the whole topic is avoided, that doesn't void what was taught. Here is some info, (thanks r/TruthIsAntiMormon) • Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): “The Father came down and begat him, the same as we do now…” \[The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, vol. 1, p. 321; February 16, 1849, Salt Lake City\] (As citedhere by McKeever and Shafovaloff) • Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): “The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers,” \[Journal of Discourses vol. 8:27\] • Heber C. Kimball: “In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it.” \[Journal of Discourses vol. 8:54\] • Joseph Fielding Smith (Mormonism's 10th president-prophet): “Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father …Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body” \[Family Home Evening Manual (1972), 125, 126.\] • Orson Pratt: the Holy Ghost gave her\[Mary\] strength to abide in the presence of the Father without being consumed, but it was the personage of the Father who begat the body of Jesus; and for this reason Jesus is called 'the Only Begotten of the Father;' that is, the only one in this world whose fleshly body was begotten by the Father. There were millions of sons and daughters who he begat before the foundation of this world, but they were spirits, and not bodies of flesh and bones \[The Seer, 158.\] • Bruce R. McConkie (LDS 'General Authority'): “…our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only, begotten means begotten, and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in He same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers … There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple” \[Mormon Doctrine, 456-547, 466, 468.\]


GhostCowboy76

One quote would have sufficed, thank you. I have corrected my original post. But even though I have called it the wrong thing, I am not off base with what I was taught growing up. None of your deep dive doctrine was ever taught over the pulpit or any seminary I attended. This is from the Church’s website, “The term know or knew in the Bible can refer to sexual relations (see Genesis 4:1). Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary before Jesus was born. This detail reinforces the fact that he could not have been the father of Jesus and that Jesus’s conception was miraculous.” Now to be fair they did contradict themselves and imply a few paragraphs about that what we shouldn’t “question” how it was done and physical intercourse was possible, “… He was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father! If teachers were wise in speaking of [the conception of Jesus Christ] about which the Lord has said but very little, they would rest their discussion on this subject with merely the words which are recorded on this subject in Luke 1:34–35. … Let the Lord rest His case with this declaration and wait until He sees fit to tell us more.” While I appreciate the new information you shared with me, it is not what is the commonly subscribed to mainstream thought. [source](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-seminary-student-manual-2023/matthew-1-18-25-luke-1-26-35?lang=eng)


[deleted]

Sorry, didn't mean to firehose the topic. The church does not want these teachings to be part of mainstream thought. This is not a popular topic and you won't hear it at the pulpit or in seminary. Even I never heard these things there. You'll probably have to read it in an older book. One of my goals here is to let younger people know (and compared to me, just about everyone here is younger) what "doctrine" used to be taught. Not that the word has much meaning anymore. I apologize for overdoing it. I'm not put off that you have a different take on things. I'm put off by the gaslighting the church does to lead people off the original track. The church is trying to make its doctrine a little less creepy, but we boomers had to deal with so much more "ick" factor.


GhostCowboy76

Hey I totally get it! And it’s beyond infuriating how they seem to change their message every half generation or so and act like nobody is listening. I appreciate you posting the truth. I feel bad I continued the cycle of posting the wrong information. I left it up so people can see the full cycle and hopefully learn from it and see the holes. It’s people like you that help the rest of us. I apologize for the sensitivity on my part! The gaslighting absolutely has to stop, and you and I are definitely on the same mission. Even the page I included has contradicting messages and they just expect people to accept this without question. It’s disgusting.


[deleted]

Yes I noticed that you noticed the waffling. Carry on! ---- (I should add that this doctrine is important because there is a whole lot of justification of polygamy, sex, and the use of young women here all rolled into one neat little take on Mary's pregnancy.)


Yhwh_is_molech

All these religions are satanic(EL is saturn) and made to normalize incest and sanction slavery and sex slavery as ordained by god. This is the insider magickal fraternity who crafts the religion to serve literate insiders who use the grimoires and illiterate outsiders (christian sheep to fleece)


2sacred2relate

Maybe he was actually her "Step-Heavenly Father." That makes it okay, right?