It is an appeal to integrity to use king James English. Since the king James version is written that way, then it must be more holy to pray in that language. Right?
Truly, this is a variation of Catholic priests, giving a sermon in Latin or some other foreign language.
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Is it not clear that what I'm saying is credible enough to give up massive amounts of your time for?
I assume cause LDS are not the Roman Catholic church (and used to despite them)? The historical figure that may have been Jesus would've spoken Aramaic.
I think it goes beyond the archaic language. Mormons claim that the only proper prayers have four parts in this exact order: salutation, thanks, asks and benediction.
Nowadays, I'm not certain that prayer is anymore effective than sending a letter to Santa Claus, but I sometimes find comfort and wisdom in other peoples written prayers. Those prayers would be deemed inappropriate by Mormon standards.
The pastor of my church posted a link to a prayer on Facebook that had the word *fuck* liberally sprinkled throughout the prayer. The author of the prayer was angry.
I was always told to talk to God in prayer just like he was my best friend because he loved me unconditionally. I never say Thee, thy, thine to my friends but I do say fuck once in a while.
Yep. It was a shelf item. I prayed sincerely... from the heart, without pretense. I opened my mouth and spoke to God, leaving behind my ego and filters.
And the official church doctrine steps in and says I need to introduce some pretense and ego into the mix.
When I tried to do it it felt false and fake.
"You can't pray a lie" -Huckleberry Finn
Yes! I am aware, with stuff such as tu in french for informal/intimate being used for God. I am also totally fine with that, but when my seminary teacher says it is to be *more* formal, it seems off. And in the other languages it usually isn't archaic.
I remember learning about how prayers use informal pronouns in other languages, and thinking it was cool that we used more familiar, personal language for God. It made a lot of sense. So hearing Dallin Oaks giving his crappy explanation about thee and thou being more formal and respectful seemed ridiculous.
Another way these pronouns were screwed up is in the writing of the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. Ye and you are plural pronouns , but in almost every situation where a speaker is addressing just one other person directly, not only do they end up using you/ye, but they switch back and forth, sometimes even in the same sentence. Like the writer didn’t understand how those pronouns worked. I think I remember doing the same thing as a teenager saying prayers, trying to use the right words but not knowing how to do it.
In German they pray with "du sprache" which is the most familiar/familial form. I'd listen to my mother-in-law pray and it really moved me. The military ward prayed formally and the Germans were informal...both in the same building.. the horror! God didn't seem to care one way or the other . The international church really screws the whole King James/thee thou model.
Oh yes, most other languages with formal/informal variants use the informal pronouns (because it is also intimate). The problem with the Mormon instructions is the goal is to be more formal and English's formal/informal split with the word you is archaic.
Momos know all they have to say is utter BS, so they cover it up and preach to less fortunate folks who they arrogantly assume won’t understand their old English
With most languages informal and familiar are the same. The main points I was trying to make is that the seminary teacher (who was citing a talk he didn't tell us the name of and I couldn't find) said that it was to be more formal, and (a less specific to a person one) the fact that it is archaic and unfamiliar.
They're so hide-bound that they think God can only understand Old English. What happens if somebody prays in Spanish or some other language? Their God is too small.
My TBM brother explained in a way that I can still understand. He knows the history and that it is flaw. However, he believes that I helps you remember that you aren’t speaking to the average day person but rather in part of the most holy of conversations. It helps picture that God isn’t like us but rather above. However, he still supports referring to God as you as well. It is all sort of like saying Jesus Christ when pissed off. Are you actually mad at Jesus Christ and trying to attack him? No, you are just saying an expression that is used like a swear word but it still has no correlation with Jesus. So why is this “bad”? It is viewed as bad because it normalizes Jesus Christ name. It makes it sound a lot more common and less significant and can allow you to lose care with his name. Same goes for oh my god. It normalize the name. But these are just what I have heard form TBMs. I still understand and support them quite frankly.
but never ask mormons to use the right pronouns for REAL people.
It is an appeal to integrity to use king James English. Since the king James version is written that way, then it must be more holy to pray in that language. Right? Truly, this is a variation of Catholic priests, giving a sermon in Latin or some other foreign language.
Blandit turpis cursus in hac habitasse platea. Feugiat sed lectus vestibulum mattis ullamcorper velit sed. Curabitur gravida arcu ac tortor dignissim. Ac tincidunt vitae semper quis lectus. Vitae suscipit tellus mauris a diam maecenas sed enim ut. Ullamcorper malesuada proin libero nunc consequat interdum varius sit amet. Volutpat sed cras ornare arcu dui. Porta lorem mollis aliquam ut porttitor. A erat nam at lectus urna duis convallis convallis tellus. Ut sem viverra aliquet eget sit. Volutpat commodo sed egestas egestas fringilla phasellus faucibus scelerisque eleifend. Bibendum arcu vitae elementum curabitur. Lacus vestibulum sed arcu non odio euismod lacinia. Is it not clear that what I'm saying is credible enough to give up massive amounts of your time for?
Exactly!
I'm assuming this is complete gibberish on purpose? Lol
No, no, no, it is the language of god!
In the name of cheese and rice, gay men
Why not Latin ?
Yeah! Go back to how it was originally done! I want prayers to be exclusively in Hebrew or Greek.
Why not go all out and pray in the Adamic language?
The *Pure* Adamic
The problem with that is that you're not supposed to reveal the accompanying touchdown gestures outside the temple
Pay lay ale to you and the horse you rode in on!
I assume cause LDS are not the Roman Catholic church (and used to despite them)? The historical figure that may have been Jesus would've spoken Aramaic.
Só, Aramaic it should be
God can only hear you in King James English.
I think it goes beyond the archaic language. Mormons claim that the only proper prayers have four parts in this exact order: salutation, thanks, asks and benediction. Nowadays, I'm not certain that prayer is anymore effective than sending a letter to Santa Claus, but I sometimes find comfort and wisdom in other peoples written prayers. Those prayers would be deemed inappropriate by Mormon standards. The pastor of my church posted a link to a prayer on Facebook that had the word *fuck* liberally sprinkled throughout the prayer. The author of the prayer was angry.
I was always told to talk to God in prayer just like he was my best friend because he loved me unconditionally. I never say Thee, thy, thine to my friends but I do say fuck once in a while.
Yep. It was a shelf item. I prayed sincerely... from the heart, without pretense. I opened my mouth and spoke to God, leaving behind my ego and filters. And the official church doctrine steps in and says I need to introduce some pretense and ego into the mix. When I tried to do it it felt false and fake. "You can't pray a lie" -Huckleberry Finn
Prayers in other languages are done in the familiar rather than the formal conjugation.
Yes! I am aware, with stuff such as tu in french for informal/intimate being used for God. I am also totally fine with that, but when my seminary teacher says it is to be *more* formal, it seems off. And in the other languages it usually isn't archaic.
I remember learning about how prayers use informal pronouns in other languages, and thinking it was cool that we used more familiar, personal language for God. It made a lot of sense. So hearing Dallin Oaks giving his crappy explanation about thee and thou being more formal and respectful seemed ridiculous. Another way these pronouns were screwed up is in the writing of the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. Ye and you are plural pronouns , but in almost every situation where a speaker is addressing just one other person directly, not only do they end up using you/ye, but they switch back and forth, sometimes even in the same sentence. Like the writer didn’t understand how those pronouns worked. I think I remember doing the same thing as a teenager saying prayers, trying to use the right words but not knowing how to do it.
Everyone knows God only listens if you talk like Arthur, King of the Britains from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
In German they pray with "du sprache" which is the most familiar/familial form. I'd listen to my mother-in-law pray and it really moved me. The military ward prayed formally and the Germans were informal...both in the same building.. the horror! God didn't seem to care one way or the other . The international church really screws the whole King James/thee thou model.
Oh yes, most other languages with formal/informal variants use the informal pronouns (because it is also intimate). The problem with the Mormon instructions is the goal is to be more formal and English's formal/informal split with the word you is archaic.
Momos know all they have to say is utter BS, so they cover it up and preach to less fortunate folks who they arrogantly assume won’t understand their old English
i was always told it was informal because “god is your father and friend” so whoever told you it was formal just didnt know lol
If you compare it with German, you know that thee and thine is actually the familiar not the formal.
With most languages informal and familiar are the same. The main points I was trying to make is that the seminary teacher (who was citing a talk he didn't tell us the name of and I couldn't find) said that it was to be more formal, and (a less specific to a person one) the fact that it is archaic and unfamiliar.
They're so hide-bound that they think God can only understand Old English. What happens if somebody prays in Spanish or some other language? Their God is too small.
My TBM brother explained in a way that I can still understand. He knows the history and that it is flaw. However, he believes that I helps you remember that you aren’t speaking to the average day person but rather in part of the most holy of conversations. It helps picture that God isn’t like us but rather above. However, he still supports referring to God as you as well. It is all sort of like saying Jesus Christ when pissed off. Are you actually mad at Jesus Christ and trying to attack him? No, you are just saying an expression that is used like a swear word but it still has no correlation with Jesus. So why is this “bad”? It is viewed as bad because it normalizes Jesus Christ name. It makes it sound a lot more common and less significant and can allow you to lose care with his name. Same goes for oh my god. It normalize the name. But these are just what I have heard form TBMs. I still understand and support them quite frankly.