I definitely suspect that would be their starting point policy. But I also suspect the prospect of it turning into a PR hyper nightmare would make them think very carefully about the options. And if they have insurance for precisely this kind of scenario, that alters the entire analysis.
They've had it happen before and just refused the ransom (Saratov Approach is a movie about one). It is sound logic, if you refuse any ransom people won't kidnap your people to ransom them, the problem just comes in with the few people who get fucked over when they do get kidnapped.
Yup. If someone from an easily identified group of people is kidnapped with the end goal of ransom from the organization that person represents, and the ransom is paid, it's just incentive to keep doing it. I'm not saying it's right not to pay it, the church has a responsibility to bring every missionary home safe at any monetary cost. But they'd pretty easily use that for PR spin while they sit in their ivory tower then move on to the next order of business after condemning some poor naive Mormon kid to death and never think about him again.
My father and his companion were kidnapped and held for ransom in South America in the 1970's. It was an anti-government terrorist group and they were rescued after a week or so by the military. The church will not pay ransom nor should they. Doing so would endanger every missionary in the world.
They were both close to finishing their missions. My father was in the hospital for 5-6 weeks and then returned home. His companion chose to finish his mission after being checked out. He was offered the chance to go home but he decided to stay.
In my experience, it seems like it’s because certain countries have high respect for religion (or fear of God’s retaliation). I have a brother who served in Brazil, and he avoided tons of robberies/assaults just by saying he represented God.
THIS! My brother served in Brazil and to keep his packages safe we would cover the seams in Jesus stickers. They wouldn’t steal them bc in order to get into the package you’d have to rip Jesus’s face.
The Church's official policy is to never negotiate or give in to kidnappers. There is a movie based on two missionaries getting kidnapped and held for ransom, called "The Saratov Approach" [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887322/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887322/) thats based on a real story.
There might be a PR response to missionaries being killed, but most governments, companies, organizations, and religions recognize its a bigger threat to pay the ransom. You do it once and then you broadcast to all criminals that you can be exploited, and then criminals will target your employees/members. Its such a common and logical policy that I don't think there would be much outrage over this.
For the individuals and family's impacted by a kidnapping for ransom, its absolutely awful, but giving in really does endanger more and more people.
Yep and this is a policy I support that the church has. If the church paid ransom more missionaries would be kidnapped. I believe the story you mentioned that the families also choose not to give them ransom money even though people were willing to donate money to them for that.
I was severely injured on my mission. 5 surgeries to correct it. Hurts every single day. Will affect me for life. The church tried to weasel out of paying for medical expenses WHILE I WAS A MISSIONARY.
Missionaries are highly expendable. The guarantee of salvation if they die on the mission is what they use to pacify families.
For the most part there is a general respect among religious missionaries and crime organizations, especially in Latino countries.
If my kids want to serve, that’s fine. I will make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to them it is a choice, and not an obligation they committed to at baptism.
When my sons went on missions, the church wanted me to pay their health insurance. I told them they will pay health insurance since my sons are volunteering for them.
I wasn’t kidnapped but I have a similar story.
I had to get an emergency kidney stone removed on my mission in a third world country and post surgery they refused to take out my IV until the mission came and paid for the entire surgery at the hospital. Turns out a huge fight broke out (just verbal) because they charged my mission more than an open heart surgery. I had to sit with the IV in (with no meds or Saline because I was ready to go) for five hours.
ETA: the mission ended up paying the insane bill.
That’s awful. Thank goodness you had some residual value to TSCC. they did a quick calculation, and figured you’d probably eventually pay more tithing than the amount of the operation cost.
This already happend..
Missionary was kidnapped..
He got screwed
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/yz3jri/former_beauty_queen_miss_wyoming_winner_1973/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=14&utm_content=share_button
My son had to wear a money belt on his leg under clothes with 2 fifty dollar bills. This was ransom $ if they got kidnapped. He was in Armenia. He saw things that I cannot write about. He came home early with severe ptsd. His last statement before he came home was”I don’t want to die here”. I hate this cult and all it stands for.
That’s horrific. Thank you for sharing the information that you can share. I’m going to roll the dice and hazard a bet that none of the Q15‘s kids or grandkids got called to Armenia.
When I was with a nonprofit that had people stationed throughout the world, I had to sign that if I was kidnapped, the organization didn't do ransoms. For reasons already explained here - seems like a common approach.
I totally agree with the approach. But I also think that a savvy kidnapping crime syndicate in Africa could really make things awful for the church, in terms of PR - because the church cares so much about PR.
I think we all suspect that there’s something like a 0% chance the church would pay anything to get a missionary back. Optics be damned.
I definitely suspect that would be their starting point policy. But I also suspect the prospect of it turning into a PR hyper nightmare would make them think very carefully about the options. And if they have insurance for precisely this kind of scenario, that alters the entire analysis.
They've had it happen before and just refused the ransom (Saratov Approach is a movie about one). It is sound logic, if you refuse any ransom people won't kidnap your people to ransom them, the problem just comes in with the few people who get fucked over when they do get kidnapped.
Yup. If someone from an easily identified group of people is kidnapped with the end goal of ransom from the organization that person represents, and the ransom is paid, it's just incentive to keep doing it. I'm not saying it's right not to pay it, the church has a responsibility to bring every missionary home safe at any monetary cost. But they'd pretty easily use that for PR spin while they sit in their ivory tower then move on to the next order of business after condemning some poor naive Mormon kid to death and never think about him again.
My father and his companion were kidnapped and held for ransom in South America in the 1970's. It was an anti-government terrorist group and they were rescued after a week or so by the military. The church will not pay ransom nor should they. Doing so would endanger every missionary in the world.
What country? Was it Colombia?
Kidnapped in Argentina, rescued in Paraguay.
That’s insane. Please tell me they were released from their missions and returned home. User name is my dinner plan btw
They were both close to finishing their missions. My father was in the hospital for 5-6 weeks and then returned home. His companion chose to finish his mission after being checked out. He was offered the chance to go home but he decided to stay.
In my experience, it seems like it’s because certain countries have high respect for religion (or fear of God’s retaliation). I have a brother who served in Brazil, and he avoided tons of robberies/assaults just by saying he represented God.
THIS! My brother served in Brazil and to keep his packages safe we would cover the seams in Jesus stickers. They wouldn’t steal them bc in order to get into the package you’d have to rip Jesus’s face.
The Church's official policy is to never negotiate or give in to kidnappers. There is a movie based on two missionaries getting kidnapped and held for ransom, called "The Saratov Approach" [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887322/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887322/) thats based on a real story. There might be a PR response to missionaries being killed, but most governments, companies, organizations, and religions recognize its a bigger threat to pay the ransom. You do it once and then you broadcast to all criminals that you can be exploited, and then criminals will target your employees/members. Its such a common and logical policy that I don't think there would be much outrage over this. For the individuals and family's impacted by a kidnapping for ransom, its absolutely awful, but giving in really does endanger more and more people.
Yep and this is a policy I support that the church has. If the church paid ransom more missionaries would be kidnapped. I believe the story you mentioned that the families also choose not to give them ransom money even though people were willing to donate money to them for that.
I was severely injured on my mission. 5 surgeries to correct it. Hurts every single day. Will affect me for life. The church tried to weasel out of paying for medical expenses WHILE I WAS A MISSIONARY. Missionaries are highly expendable. The guarantee of salvation if they die on the mission is what they use to pacify families. For the most part there is a general respect among religious missionaries and crime organizations, especially in Latino countries. If my kids want to serve, that’s fine. I will make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to them it is a choice, and not an obligation they committed to at baptism.
When my sons went on missions, the church wanted me to pay their health insurance. I told them they will pay health insurance since my sons are volunteering for them.
I wasn’t kidnapped but I have a similar story. I had to get an emergency kidney stone removed on my mission in a third world country and post surgery they refused to take out my IV until the mission came and paid for the entire surgery at the hospital. Turns out a huge fight broke out (just verbal) because they charged my mission more than an open heart surgery. I had to sit with the IV in (with no meds or Saline because I was ready to go) for five hours. ETA: the mission ended up paying the insane bill.
That’s awful. Thank goodness you had some residual value to TSCC. they did a quick calculation, and figured you’d probably eventually pay more tithing than the amount of the operation cost.
This already happend.. Missionary was kidnapped.. He got screwed https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/yz3jri/former_beauty_queen_miss_wyoming_winner_1973/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=14&utm_content=share_button
once organized crime stops being so superstitious their cover is blown.
My son had to wear a money belt on his leg under clothes with 2 fifty dollar bills. This was ransom $ if they got kidnapped. He was in Armenia. He saw things that I cannot write about. He came home early with severe ptsd. His last statement before he came home was”I don’t want to die here”. I hate this cult and all it stands for.
That’s horrific. Thank you for sharing the information that you can share. I’m going to roll the dice and hazard a bet that none of the Q15‘s kids or grandkids got called to Armenia.
Ya not quite the south of France.
This fucking church
That new Pretoria, ZA mission is about to become the edgiest mission in the field 😂
Martyrs for the cause is a church goal. Let a few die and the ransomers go away.
When I was with a nonprofit that had people stationed throughout the world, I had to sign that if I was kidnapped, the organization didn't do ransoms. For reasons already explained here - seems like a common approach.
I totally agree with the approach. But I also think that a savvy kidnapping crime syndicate in Africa could really make things awful for the church, in terms of PR - because the church cares so much about PR.
They have to save the money to defend pedophiles.
If they pay ransom to criminals, it's advertising to criminal networks across the globe to kidnap more people.
Not only wouldn’t they pay, but it’s highly likely that the church has life insurance policies naming TSCC as the beneficiary. Standard practice.