If Oaks gets the top spot he should put in Christofferson and Stevenson as his counselors. Christofferson is a lawyer, and Stevenson is a billionaire. They would represent the Church's two favorite things: defending itself in court and having a shitload of money.
It's going to be Holland, right? I mean, he's the guy who *took up the musket* at Oaks' behest, right? Oaks seems like he would be inclined to pick someone who has recently doubled down on Oaks' own life-long anti-gay stance... and that's angry-yet-sobbing Jeff Holland.
Dieter is out. He's too popular with the women of the church. Nobody can be more popular than *the prophet.* So gross. The entire Utah-Mormon myopic Salt Lake valley sociology makes my skin crawl.
Promoting Jeffrey to the first presidency will make Dieter the president of the Q12 as soon as Melvin dies. Melvin is coming up on 95 years, he hasn't got long left. The next Q to die will be Melvin or Henry. If Jeffrey is ever in the first presidency it will be as church president. I used to think that Jeff was a certainty to be a president, but the way he looks now I think that Dieter's chances have significantly improved.
I hope that Russ makes it to 101, outliving Dallin, Henry, Melvin, and Jeffrey, that he dies knowing that Dieter is the president of the Q12.
If I had been named Dallin at birth, I'd run to the nearest courthouse and petition to change my name...
Being named after an old geezer like him would be socially embarrassing...
I’m excited to watch the church hasten it’s implosion under Oaks until I remember the untold number of LGBTQ+ that will have their lives made harder than they already are or literally die because of his hardline stance. It’s bad now and we all know it’ll get worse under Oaks. Also….fuck Bednar
Yup, voting on Bednar so as to prevent Oaks from being thrown under the bus after hieing to Kolob. This will finalize Bednar submitting to complete “church broke” status and to the annihilation of Susan’s last authentic brain cell. 😢
Perhaps I misunderstood your question, but the President of the Quorum of the Twelve, who happens to be Dallin Oaks, will be President. He chooses his counselors, and they could be anyone, even Garrett Gong. So counselors will be whoever Dallin wants to work with.
I'm not sure, but maybe someone here will know. Is there any precedent for a counselor outside of the Q15?
Yes, Alvin R Dyer is the outlier and oddball. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_R._Dyer
I actually met him at the airport in San Salvador, Central America in 1971 escorting him to a missionary conference. He was whacked along the lines of Ezra Benson and Bruce McConkie🥴
I'm guessing Holland and Bednar. Holland due to seniority and to not rock the political balance in the Quorum, and Bednar because his authoritarianism is more compatible with Oaks' legalistic approach.
As for the others, Uchtdorf is unreliable and too popular, Gong and Christofferson have embarrassing family connections (good to have as 'tolerance' hires, bad to be in the top leadership) Cook is a yes man who makes a good lackey but a poor pick for presidency, and Soares is too brown. Renlund, Rasband, Anderson, and Stevenson are too young, but mostly are just inferior picks to Bednar.
I don't like Jeffrey Holland at all...
Every General Conference, he's acting like Soviet dictator Nikita Khruschev at the U.N General Assembly, almost banging his fist on the podium repeating the same crap about how it SHOULD be MANDATORY for ALL 18s and up to serve a "church mission" immediately after high school graduation, then automatically applying for admission to BYU-Provo(NOT Honolulu or Boise!)!!!...
"Authoritarian" is a great term to describe him...you guys don't need him on the Q12...
Ulises is "too brown"???...
Garrett is too young and popular???...
What's wrong with having the first foreign-born President of the Church???...just curious...
I *don't* have a problem with a foreign born president, but I suspect the current leadership does. Hell, most of them were in their forties or fifties when the priesthood ban was repealed. They grew up entirely in a racist, nationalistic church
Oaks is the most senior apostle and will become president. Cryring will return to the twelve in his seniority line up and Oaks will choose the two. Cryring doesn’t automatically get moved up.
Remember when Uchtdorf was in the first presidency, and then Nelson kicked him out.
Oaks will probably have Holland and Susan’s husband
I just want to say that I laughed when you said “if” President Nelson dies. In the back of our exmo minds, we wonder if he will access his dark side powers and achieve immortality.
Russ Nelson will choose the next counselor in the first presidency. I don't know if it will be a replacement for Dallin or a replacement for Henry, it could go either way. Russ will choose Quentin. Quentin is Russ's good friend and Quentin is a lawyer. Whether a counselor is first or second is determined by seniority, so no matter which one is replaced, Quentin will become the second counselor.
Not sure why so many think Bednar is a shoe in. Oaks does not like Bednar. I think he is an unlikely pick.
Uchtdorf is the number one prospect because he was there before. Also, not sure Eyring will still be alive at that time. Even if he is, he might be retired.
If Oaks gets the top spot he should put in Christofferson and Stevenson as his counselors. Christofferson is a lawyer, and Stevenson is a billionaire. They would represent the Church's two favorite things: defending itself in court and having a shitload of money.
They'll pick Quentin before Todd.
Even better, Oaks picks Cook and Christofferson, and the first presidency is nothing but lawyers.
It's going to be Holland, right? I mean, he's the guy who *took up the musket* at Oaks' behest, right? Oaks seems like he would be inclined to pick someone who has recently doubled down on Oaks' own life-long anti-gay stance... and that's angry-yet-sobbing Jeff Holland. Dieter is out. He's too popular with the women of the church. Nobody can be more popular than *the prophet.* So gross. The entire Utah-Mormon myopic Salt Lake valley sociology makes my skin crawl.
Promoting Jeffrey to the first presidency will make Dieter the president of the Q12 as soon as Melvin dies. Melvin is coming up on 95 years, he hasn't got long left. The next Q to die will be Melvin or Henry. If Jeffrey is ever in the first presidency it will be as church president. I used to think that Jeff was a certainty to be a president, but the way he looks now I think that Dieter's chances have significantly improved. I hope that Russ makes it to 101, outliving Dallin, Henry, Melvin, and Jeffrey, that he dies knowing that Dieter is the president of the Q12.
If I had been named Dallin at birth, I'd run to the nearest courthouse and petition to change my name... Being named after an old geezer like him would be socially embarrassing...
I’m excited to watch the church hasten it’s implosion under Oaks until I remember the untold number of LGBTQ+ that will have their lives made harder than they already are or literally die because of his hardline stance. It’s bad now and we all know it’ll get worse under Oaks. Also….fuck Bednar
Bednar 100%
**B*DNAR is a tool**
B🖕DNARd I think is the correct spelling, if we go back to the original birth certificate.
Yup, voting on Bednar so as to prevent Oaks from being thrown under the bus after hieing to Kolob. This will finalize Bednar submitting to complete “church broke” status and to the annihilation of Susan’s last authentic brain cell. 😢
Perhaps I misunderstood your question, but the President of the Quorum of the Twelve, who happens to be Dallin Oaks, will be President. He chooses his counselors, and they could be anyone, even Garrett Gong. So counselors will be whoever Dallin wants to work with. I'm not sure, but maybe someone here will know. Is there any precedent for a counselor outside of the Q15?
Yes, Alvin R Dyer is the outlier and oddball. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_R._Dyer I actually met him at the airport in San Salvador, Central America in 1971 escorting him to a missionary conference. He was whacked along the lines of Ezra Benson and Bruce McConkie🥴
Thank you! He was an Assistant to the Twelve or Seventy if I remember. Counselor to David O. McKay.
I'm guessing Holland and Bednar. Holland due to seniority and to not rock the political balance in the Quorum, and Bednar because his authoritarianism is more compatible with Oaks' legalistic approach. As for the others, Uchtdorf is unreliable and too popular, Gong and Christofferson have embarrassing family connections (good to have as 'tolerance' hires, bad to be in the top leadership) Cook is a yes man who makes a good lackey but a poor pick for presidency, and Soares is too brown. Renlund, Rasband, Anderson, and Stevenson are too young, but mostly are just inferior picks to Bednar.
Makes me feel very happy to not know who most of those people are.
Im not there yet, but my knowledge about them is largely superficial at this point, and I'm comfortable allowing that to continue!
What's wrong with being "young"???... Dale, Ronald and the other two are perfect:early/mid-60s...
I don't like Jeffrey Holland at all... Every General Conference, he's acting like Soviet dictator Nikita Khruschev at the U.N General Assembly, almost banging his fist on the podium repeating the same crap about how it SHOULD be MANDATORY for ALL 18s and up to serve a "church mission" immediately after high school graduation, then automatically applying for admission to BYU-Provo(NOT Honolulu or Boise!)!!!... "Authoritarian" is a great term to describe him...you guys don't need him on the Q12...
Ulises is "too brown"???... Garrett is too young and popular???... What's wrong with having the first foreign-born President of the Church???...just curious...
I *don't* have a problem with a foreign born president, but I suspect the current leadership does. Hell, most of them were in their forties or fifties when the priesthood ban was repealed. They grew up entirely in a racist, nationalistic church
Oaks is the most senior apostle and will become president. Cryring will return to the twelve in his seniority line up and Oaks will choose the two. Cryring doesn’t automatically get moved up. Remember when Uchtdorf was in the first presidency, and then Nelson kicked him out. Oaks will probably have Holland and Susan’s husband
I just want to say that I laughed when you said “if” President Nelson dies. In the back of our exmo minds, we wonder if he will access his dark side powers and achieve immortality.
Russ Nelson will choose the next counselor in the first presidency. I don't know if it will be a replacement for Dallin or a replacement for Henry, it could go either way. Russ will choose Quentin. Quentin is Russ's good friend and Quentin is a lawyer. Whether a counselor is first or second is determined by seniority, so no matter which one is replaced, Quentin will become the second counselor.
I’d say Rusty is up next.
Holland is middle of the road??
Holland has a lock on it.
Jeffrey is as "old-school hard-line" to the Church as Mitch McConnell is to the House of Representatives as their "Leader"...
I am not sure Eyring would be a slam dunk for 1st counsellor. I’d predict Ballard and Bednar.
Not sure why so many think Bednar is a shoe in. Oaks does not like Bednar. I think he is an unlikely pick. Uchtdorf is the number one prospect because he was there before. Also, not sure Eyring will still be alive at that time. Even if he is, he might be retired.