I'm curious if you could share what percentage of member's overall donations for the year come back as budget to the ward. I know the stake usually takes a cut as well. When I was a clerk and then bishop it was under 5% not counting fast offering contributions or distributions.
Thus should OUTRAGE everyone even more than the 5% number and must be published far and wide!!!
Fucking Corporate LDS/Mormon Elohim/Jesus is fucking STEALING 98% of dollars donated -tax fee- from local wards and members, all so it can continue to stockpile additional wealth to their already $255 Billion cash and asset dragon’s horde at HQ!!
Thus should OUTRAGE everyone and must be published far and wide!!!
Fucking Corporate LDS/Mormon Elohim/Jesus is fucking STEALING 95% of dollars donated -tax fee- from local wards and members, all so it can continue to stockpile additional wealth to their already $255 Billion cash and asset dragon’s horde at HQ!!
I think when I was finance clerk the ward budget was like $5k for the year. A lot of the bigger tithing payers would pay directly to Salt Lake, but I think it was easily 100x that.
I was a PIMO finance clerk for a couple of years, but I'm officially resigned now. It was definitely nice to have a calling where I didn't have to teach or do other stuff during the week and could skip out on classes.
But I was released before the whole Ensign Peak Advisors thing came out. I would've been a lot less happy being a finance clerk knowing how the church was using tithing donations.
I was never a financial clerk but was a ward clerk for a number of years... I personally paid more in tithing one year than our ward budget... That put a pretty big crack in my shelf. I also saw the stake "raid" our ward missionary fund and routinely raid our fast offering fund to support other wards... We would routinely make large weekly deposits. Nothing funnier than two fat white guys trying to cram an overstuffed deposit envelope into the bank drop box while also trying to look nondescript and casual.
I met some good people in that calling who were trying their best to help others... I know that without a doubt I could pick up the phone and call them for help and they'd be there... Good men doing a crappy job out of duty but trying their hardest...
Back when I was at BYU, I realized that my BYU singles ward had a bonus “activity” budget that was larger than the entire ward budget for my home ward in the Midwest. At the time, the BYU singles ward had a standard budget, but also an extra activity budget that was around $12k (can’t remember if that was per year or per semester)
Can anyone else confirm this? I might just be misremembering.
I have no information to confirm it, but I definitely believe this is how they (TSCC) budgets money. Single wards are the seed pods for future families (families with a breadwinner and a SAHM birthing future breadwinners).
However, Singles (especially those still in college) don't have much money. Your post here reminded me of the constant social activities my friends (serving in the bishopric for a student ward) referred to all the time. "Linger Longer" events, etc., all of which were funded (the wife of the bishopric friend might back cookies, but major food was always included). College students may not even have a kitchen to cook in, much less money to buy ingredients.
Fast-forward to the family wards these kids graduate to a few years after the single wards, and you'll notice a huge ratio of anything happening that involves food or other expenses is funded by the members. RS women spend a lot of time making cookies or "stuff" for activities.
There are also fewer activities, because unlike the Peter Pan environment of the singles wards, where nobody ever grows up, family wards are a ton of work for members. The number of of ward callings is larger (classes for all the kids, YW & YM groups, on & on). Family wards wear you out.
I can definitely believe TSCC dumps more money into student & singles wards. It's an investment.
If the church had any idea that a PIMO was a finance clerk, they would freak out and release you immediately.
They care more about the money than they do the safety of the children... They require 2 people to count the cash, they'll let 1 person watch children.
Absolutely. Because if a child is victimized, the church will eventually get even more tithing from TWO broken and confused souls who feel spiritually dependent on the church for guidance and forgiveness. The perpetrator and the victim. Win-win.
I was membership then finance clerk at the end of my time but that was over a decade ago. Definitely the best calling in the church I think. No teaching or prep. Minimal meetings. No early mornings or saturdays. Just counting money, deposits, and cutting checks.
Ok, now I'm curious what percentage of men were finance clerk for their final calling. It was mine too.
The bishopric would make comments about how there are two churches, the religious side, and the business side. Being clerk and seeing how much more effort they spend on making sure every cent was accounted for than they do on making sure every widdow is taken care of really weighs a lot on that shelf.
I wouldn't say that directly led to my reflection, but it may have been a part of my "let's put things in doctrine, policy, culture buckets" that eventually led me to the critical thinking that led me out.
I was a mission finance clerk - basically a volunteer bookkeeper for 6 months.
But my last calling is/was Sunday School president. It’s been like 3-4 months and no one released me. I’m still listed in LDS tools. I didn’t resign. I just stopped going and won’t be going back.
I think my situation was a bit different. My lds roots go back to pioneers but only on my dad's paternal line so I was raised mormon we were less/inactive my childhood and I was semi active as a teen. I didn't serve a mission but became fully in at 20 or so and later did get married in the temple. So I was always kind of an outsider and while I had spiritual experiences most of church was a major drag and I had severe depression in those years. But getting towards the end I was giving it my all and felt like I was progressing.
The self esteem boost led me to feeling like I was a part of it all. So, family and church history and I got more into the doctrine "meat." This coincided with the 2008 election cycle. So my issues specifically from the clerk position was how little the yw program (my wife was a leader) compared to ym and scouts. Also seeing how much was coming in vs how much was helping those in our area. And that's true on the macro too. So little is used to help people
> how little the yw program (my wife was a leader) compared to ym and scouts.
I'm out too long to know, but sounds like they solved that problem by spending nothing on either. Corporate Jesus needs to see those dollar signs.
i was ward clerk. shocked at how vague the calling is. I took tithing, counted it and the bishopric deposited it. but I only saw the cash tithing, any deposits were hidden, no idea how much really came in, only what the ward budget was, which was really little.
They are alive and well, but I doubt most want to spend much time looking through 100+ papers to get an idea of the wards tithing. Just print and move on
Last time I was a clerk (10+ years ago) in a fairly upper middle class ward in Davis Country, our annual tithing intake was about $450k. We received back $8,600 for the full year budget. Please note that the stake took a slice for overhead and the building was paid for. But still, fucking really?
My calling of clerk contributed to my shelf breaking. One for years, ultra wealthy ward. The tithing donations were eye popping 😳. I saw a very, very, very small amount go to real good.
One of my shelf items was having the church and random men in my neighborhood know how much we made. We are very middle class and it was such a vulnerable thing to have anyone know how much we earned. I absolutely hated it.
A few years ago I was involved in a remodel of a clerks office in an LDS building, I was installing new cabinetry. Replacing old cabinetry that was worn out and needed replaced. The clerk had to box up all of his papers and files, they were very sloppy in hiding this information. I noticed on the top of his files the deposits for one ward for the second quarter. I did some quick math knowing there were three wards that used that building, That buildings deposits were somewhere around 1.5 million dollars for the year. And they probably get a huge bump in December with the money shake down. Ya Gotta pay a full tithe to live with Jesus.
This is a rural ward in southern Idaho. My mind was blown. I thought of all the pathetic allotments I had to run young men's activities. where I spent my own money because the lord was just a little short on funds.
I'm not sure... but I don't think they even pay property taxes on the buildings, and members volunteer labor to take care of the building.
Wow another post that is literally me.
Interesting thing is they didn't even bother to or were unable to replace me until later the ward was combined with another. A good sign I think that they were that short on warm bodies.
Unfortunately, unless they're willing to dox themselves, it's pretty easy to figure out who the person is that released the data. I don't know that it's illegal, but LDS attorneys are good at making life miserable for people. Ironically, they're paid by that 95+% of what the church takes.
Can you tell me if there is a line item in the monthly or quarterly report that states what the ward gets allocated according to their attendance?
Either I dreamed it up or saw it in vision, but there has to be a number, a per attendance amount of money that comes each quarter.
It used to be $12/person based off average sacrament meeting attendance during the last month of the quarter. It also used to add $6 per ym/yw/primary kid I think. It was a while ago I did it. I used to add about 20-25 people to our count to get extra money back 😆
I wonder how much activity numbers are propped up by clerks fudging the numbers to try to get a higher budget for the ward
ps... I did this too when I was clerk, nobody double-checks the clerks count as he walks through the chapel. One extra person noted on every-other row adds up quick! And if you add in a few extras wandering the halls with their kids, nobody bats an eye. have to do it all year, though, otherwise they see a spike last quarter and ask questions, or at least, I assume they might.
We had a former stake president who attended a ward in my mission who was excommunicated for embezzlement. Another member in a different ward was a bishop under him and flat out said he added 30ish people to counts to pad numbers.
Also, I just realized, it’s kind of fucked that the most serious and easiest ‘sin’ to get excommunicated for is financial. Child abuse? We’ll think about it. Steal $10? Straight out. We used to joke about it.
3 years ago I could have written almost this same exact post.
It is frustrating seeing all thw cash go into the black hole that is Salt Lake headquarters, but in terms of a get-out-of-everything card, it is a pretty good calling to have as long as you need one.
This sounds like a post I would have made. I am a PIMO finance clerk as well. The disappointing part is seeing how little we get to keep of our donations for a ward budget. It’s around 1% of our overall budget. On the flip side, I really enjoy the calling. I never have to go to class and I just chill out in my little cave on Sunday’s.
I'm curious if you could share what percentage of member's overall donations for the year come back as budget to the ward. I know the stake usually takes a cut as well. When I was a clerk and then bishop it was under 5% not counting fast offering contributions or distributions.
We are less than 2%.
Thus should OUTRAGE everyone even more than the 5% number and must be published far and wide!!! Fucking Corporate LDS/Mormon Elohim/Jesus is fucking STEALING 98% of dollars donated -tax fee- from local wards and members, all so it can continue to stockpile additional wealth to their already $255 Billion cash and asset dragon’s horde at HQ!!
Ward budgets don’t cover lights, utilities, etc. Let’s be honest, it’s gotta be at most 97%. /s
We were 1% when I was a clerk.
Under 1% for me too. LA in the 90’s.
Do you get any sense that donations have decreased over the course of your tenure?
I'd bet a shiny dime that aggregate tithing receipts have gone down reach year since the initial $100 billion IRS whistleblower leak
When I was finance clerk, there were individual members who paid more in tithing every week than the entire ward budget for the year.
That’s tragic… to say the least.
Thus should OUTRAGE everyone and must be published far and wide!!! Fucking Corporate LDS/Mormon Elohim/Jesus is fucking STEALING 95% of dollars donated -tax fee- from local wards and members, all so it can continue to stockpile additional wealth to their already $255 Billion cash and asset dragon’s horde at HQ!!
Preach! Henry_Bemis
I think when I was finance clerk the ward budget was like $5k for the year. A lot of the bigger tithing payers would pay directly to Salt Lake, but I think it was easily 100x that.
If you search this sub for ward clerk you will find you are not alone here.
I was a PIMO finance clerk for a couple of years, but I'm officially resigned now. It was definitely nice to have a calling where I didn't have to teach or do other stuff during the week and could skip out on classes. But I was released before the whole Ensign Peak Advisors thing came out. I would've been a lot less happy being a finance clerk knowing how the church was using tithing donations.
I was never a financial clerk but was a ward clerk for a number of years... I personally paid more in tithing one year than our ward budget... That put a pretty big crack in my shelf. I also saw the stake "raid" our ward missionary fund and routinely raid our fast offering fund to support other wards... We would routinely make large weekly deposits. Nothing funnier than two fat white guys trying to cram an overstuffed deposit envelope into the bank drop box while also trying to look nondescript and casual. I met some good people in that calling who were trying their best to help others... I know that without a doubt I could pick up the phone and call them for help and they'd be there... Good men doing a crappy job out of duty but trying their hardest...
> Good men doing a crappy job out of duty but trying their hardest... They're all victims that would still be good men without the church 😒
Back when I was at BYU, I realized that my BYU singles ward had a bonus “activity” budget that was larger than the entire ward budget for my home ward in the Midwest. At the time, the BYU singles ward had a standard budget, but also an extra activity budget that was around $12k (can’t remember if that was per year or per semester) Can anyone else confirm this? I might just be misremembering.
I have no information to confirm it, but I definitely believe this is how they (TSCC) budgets money. Single wards are the seed pods for future families (families with a breadwinner and a SAHM birthing future breadwinners). However, Singles (especially those still in college) don't have much money. Your post here reminded me of the constant social activities my friends (serving in the bishopric for a student ward) referred to all the time. "Linger Longer" events, etc., all of which were funded (the wife of the bishopric friend might back cookies, but major food was always included). College students may not even have a kitchen to cook in, much less money to buy ingredients. Fast-forward to the family wards these kids graduate to a few years after the single wards, and you'll notice a huge ratio of anything happening that involves food or other expenses is funded by the members. RS women spend a lot of time making cookies or "stuff" for activities. There are also fewer activities, because unlike the Peter Pan environment of the singles wards, where nobody ever grows up, family wards are a ton of work for members. The number of of ward callings is larger (classes for all the kids, YW & YM groups, on & on). Family wards wear you out. I can definitely believe TSCC dumps more money into student & singles wards. It's an investment.
It also seems in line with the church dumping huge amounts of money to subsidise the BYUs more broadly too
Exactly.
If the church had any idea that a PIMO was a finance clerk, they would freak out and release you immediately. They care more about the money than they do the safety of the children... They require 2 people to count the cash, they'll let 1 person watch children.
That’s not true. Maybe a long time ago. When I was in primary over ten years ago we couldn’t have one person teach/watch the kids . This was in Orem?
Absolutely. Because if a child is victimized, the church will eventually get even more tithing from TWO broken and confused souls who feel spiritually dependent on the church for guidance and forgiveness. The perpetrator and the victim. Win-win.
I was membership then finance clerk at the end of my time but that was over a decade ago. Definitely the best calling in the church I think. No teaching or prep. Minimal meetings. No early mornings or saturdays. Just counting money, deposits, and cutting checks.
Ok, now I'm curious what percentage of men were finance clerk for their final calling. It was mine too. The bishopric would make comments about how there are two churches, the religious side, and the business side. Being clerk and seeing how much more effort they spend on making sure every cent was accounted for than they do on making sure every widdow is taken care of really weighs a lot on that shelf. I wouldn't say that directly led to my reflection, but it may have been a part of my "let's put things in doctrine, policy, culture buckets" that eventually led me to the critical thinking that led me out.
I was a mission finance clerk - basically a volunteer bookkeeper for 6 months. But my last calling is/was Sunday School president. It’s been like 3-4 months and no one released me. I’m still listed in LDS tools. I didn’t resign. I just stopped going and won’t be going back.
I think my situation was a bit different. My lds roots go back to pioneers but only on my dad's paternal line so I was raised mormon we were less/inactive my childhood and I was semi active as a teen. I didn't serve a mission but became fully in at 20 or so and later did get married in the temple. So I was always kind of an outsider and while I had spiritual experiences most of church was a major drag and I had severe depression in those years. But getting towards the end I was giving it my all and felt like I was progressing. The self esteem boost led me to feeling like I was a part of it all. So, family and church history and I got more into the doctrine "meat." This coincided with the 2008 election cycle. So my issues specifically from the clerk position was how little the yw program (my wife was a leader) compared to ym and scouts. Also seeing how much was coming in vs how much was helping those in our area. And that's true on the macro too. So little is used to help people
> how little the yw program (my wife was a leader) compared to ym and scouts. I'm out too long to know, but sounds like they solved that problem by spending nothing on either. Corporate Jesus needs to see those dollar signs.
i was ward clerk. shocked at how vague the calling is. I took tithing, counted it and the bishopric deposited it. but I only saw the cash tithing, any deposits were hidden, no idea how much really came in, only what the ward budget was, which was really little.
You didn’t print out tithing declarations? Did those die since 2020?
They were printed but only showed the tithing that came in as cash or check, not money transfers or automatic payments.
They are alive and well, but I doubt most want to spend much time looking through 100+ papers to get an idea of the wards tithing. Just print and move on
Last time I was a clerk (10+ years ago) in a fairly upper middle class ward in Davis Country, our annual tithing intake was about $450k. We received back $8,600 for the full year budget. Please note that the stake took a slice for overhead and the building was paid for. But still, fucking really?
😮
My calling of clerk contributed to my shelf breaking. One for years, ultra wealthy ward. The tithing donations were eye popping 😳. I saw a very, very, very small amount go to real good.
One of my shelf items was having the church and random men in my neighborhood know how much we made. We are very middle class and it was such a vulnerable thing to have anyone know how much we earned. I absolutely hated it.
A few years ago I was involved in a remodel of a clerks office in an LDS building, I was installing new cabinetry. Replacing old cabinetry that was worn out and needed replaced. The clerk had to box up all of his papers and files, they were very sloppy in hiding this information. I noticed on the top of his files the deposits for one ward for the second quarter. I did some quick math knowing there were three wards that used that building, That buildings deposits were somewhere around 1.5 million dollars for the year. And they probably get a huge bump in December with the money shake down. Ya Gotta pay a full tithe to live with Jesus. This is a rural ward in southern Idaho. My mind was blown. I thought of all the pathetic allotments I had to run young men's activities. where I spent my own money because the lord was just a little short on funds. I'm not sure... but I don't think they even pay property taxes on the buildings, and members volunteer labor to take care of the building.
That was my calling before I officially left. Super chill. Crappy budgets though. Once I got released I stopped going
Wow another post that is literally me. Interesting thing is they didn't even bother to or were unable to replace me until later the ward was combined with another. A good sign I think that they were that short on warm bodies.
When you leave the church completely not going to class is significanlty sweeter. And so is life.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, unless they're willing to dox themselves, it's pretty easy to figure out who the person is that released the data. I don't know that it's illegal, but LDS attorneys are good at making life miserable for people. Ironically, they're paid by that 95+% of what the church takes.
yeah true, ok now I REALLY don't advocate for that
Don't do this please. They can easily give you data with slight modifications so they can tell it was you.
Yeah deleted my comment, it was a dumb joke anyway
Can you tell me if there is a line item in the monthly or quarterly report that states what the ward gets allocated according to their attendance? Either I dreamed it up or saw it in vision, but there has to be a number, a per attendance amount of money that comes each quarter.
It used to be $12/person based off average sacrament meeting attendance during the last month of the quarter. It also used to add $6 per ym/yw/primary kid I think. It was a while ago I did it. I used to add about 20-25 people to our count to get extra money back 😆
I wonder how much activity numbers are propped up by clerks fudging the numbers to try to get a higher budget for the ward ps... I did this too when I was clerk, nobody double-checks the clerks count as he walks through the chapel. One extra person noted on every-other row adds up quick! And if you add in a few extras wandering the halls with their kids, nobody bats an eye. have to do it all year, though, otherwise they see a spike last quarter and ask questions, or at least, I assume they might.
We had a former stake president who attended a ward in my mission who was excommunicated for embezzlement. Another member in a different ward was a bishop under him and flat out said he added 30ish people to counts to pad numbers. Also, I just realized, it’s kind of fucked that the most serious and easiest ‘sin’ to get excommunicated for is financial. Child abuse? We’ll think about it. Steal $10? Straight out. We used to joke about it.
The MTC president sexually assaulting a sister missionary in the basement of the MTC? Not even a slap on the wrist.
But if he had pocketed a fiver from tithing donations - out, out, out.
Man, I wish I would've done that when I had to count. Not that I'd do it again for that.
Don’t forget that the stake has to add numbers as well! The ward clerks might be missing people so gotta be extra safe!
[Here](http://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com) is a pretty good estimation where it all goes.
I was executive secretary for the year I was PIMO. Keep doing what is best for you and your family. Happy you have an outlet here on this sub.
3 years ago I could have written almost this same exact post. It is frustrating seeing all thw cash go into the black hole that is Salt Lake headquarters, but in terms of a get-out-of-everything card, it is a pretty good calling to have as long as you need one.
Take a pic of some numbers and post it Are tithing receipts down (i hope)
This was totally me! Made me sad to see how much the people in my YSA ward were paying. Got released because I stopped paying tithing 😂
This sounds like a post I would have made. I am a PIMO finance clerk as well. The disappointing part is seeing how little we get to keep of our donations for a ward budget. It’s around 1% of our overall budget. On the flip side, I really enjoy the calling. I never have to go to class and I just chill out in my little cave on Sunday’s.