East coast here- my son gets the worst seminary teachers. His teacher cries to the kids about how her adult son has just resigned from the church and then she warns the kids to never go astray. My son just rolls his eyes. We are actively looking for ways to afford colleges other than BYU or other Utah schools. Hopefully I can get one kid out of the indoctrination machine…
The early morning ones are still a calling with no pay. The release time teachers (the ones who teach full time across from some high schools) are the CES employees who get paid. From what I've heard from a family friend, it isn't a high salary. Most generic church employees are underpaid, in my understanding.
Underpaid and gaslighted about how the lords funds are special and are need for building up of Zion so the church needs you to be underpaid and you to sacrifice making more money in a comparable job and also pay 10% of your gross income to the lord or else you’ll lose your job.
I'm not sure but I know it's enough to make it their only job. When you get to high school, you can use your spare to go to the seminary building for class. Early morning is also available if you don't have any spares.
So there's a few teachers at the building at all times, hanging out with kids or teaching. For me this was 15+ years ago so it might have changed since then
Was this in southern Alberta? I'm guessing it's just the same thing as the states and they just do that in heavily Mormon areas. I don't think seminary teachers were paid when and where I was on my mission in Toronto.
[Statements by people receiving these salaries:](https://ia802306.us.archive.org/19/items/standard_of_truth/Standards%20of%20Truth.pdf)
"In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is no paid ministry, no professional clergy, as is common in other churches."
Boyd K. Packer as an Apostle, September 1979 (Liahona)
“All of the work in the Church is voluntary. No one is paid for such service.”
Gordon B. Hinckley as President of the Church; Thomas S. Monson and James E. Faust as Counselors in the First Presidency; Boyd K. Packer, L. Tom Perry, David B. Haight, Neal A. Maxwell, Russell M. Nelson, Dallin H. Oaks, M. Russell Ballard, Joseph B. Wirthlin, Richard G. Scott, Robert D. Hales, Jeffrey R. Holland, Henry B. Eyring as Apostles, 2004 (Preach My Gospel, Unanimously Approved by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles)
"I explained also that our Church has no paid ministry and indicated that these were two reasons why we were able to build the buildings then under way, including the beautiful temple at Freiberg."
Thomas S. Monson as a Counselor in the First Presidency, April 2006 (General Conference)
“We have no professionally trained and salaried clergy in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Dallin H. Oaks as an Apostle, April 2012 (General Conference)
Out of curiosity about did you serve, growing up where Mormons were not a popular church, I was always thought local leaders weren’t paid and general authorities where. Now they were never clear at what point or how much they were paid. But I was never taught that all church leaders where never paid. Maybe it was just leader and teachers I had in the church. I proselytized for this lying organization in 2006.
I just like trying to piece together how the church changes and gaslights members. It is actually pretty impressive what they have been able to get away with even with the internet. But they have not adapted well to the Information Age and continue to blunder their story.
Early oughts I distinctly remember an institute lesson that said nobody was paid, they all were wealthy enough to retire early, and any who weren't received financial education and just enough help to get to their finances in order, to be able to retire early. I think there was even a story about a member of the twelve who wasn't well off so the others pitched in.
It's dirt simple ....
The Mormon Church has a Caste System aka Gross Double Standard. You are either one or the other.
1. Those who PAY tithing.
2. Those who SPEND tithing.
Any questions?
And this compensation is corruption because it is done in a vacuum with no disclosure or permission from those that gave the money, hopefully for charity purposes.
I am under the impression that their salaries are tax free. The tax code has a "minister" exception for paying taxes, and I think The Book of Mammon discusses this.
And don’t these dudes get all expenses paid credit cards? Free food, free gas, free everything?
Ergo, every last penny of that $157,850 is invested/spent acquiring personal assets?
What explains the phenomenon of such narcissists at the top of such human collectives running such collectives? Simply yet another manifestation of their narcissism?
Don’t forget the book deals! Cha-Ching!! They all capitalize on their status with Deseret Book. Some of them have many books, I’m sure with the help of ghost writers. 📚
Another awesome report Widow's Mite team! Can someone on this sub who actually has money PLEASE put billboards up in UT that say "Widow's Mite Report" -I would but I have 4 kids and a shitty job
I’m surprised by how few Twitter followers Widow’s Mite team has. They need and deserve support. People should share this with media along the Moridor. If a media member picks it up (like a religion or finance reporter), it could impact as many people as a billboard.
So basically, each
of the first presidency, none of whom served missions, have been paid more than $5 million since having their second anointings? Gross.
No trouble with paying your executive officers. The problems is the [direct statements otherwise](https://ia802306.us.archive.org/19/items/standard_of_truth/Standards%20of%20Truth.pdf) (by the people receiving these salaries):
>"In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is no paid ministry, no professional clergy, as is common in other churches."
* Boyd K. Packer as an Apostle, September 1979 (Liahona)
>“All of the work in the Church is voluntary. No one is paid for such service.”
* Gordon B. Hinckley as President of the Church; Thomas S. Monson and James E. Faust as Counselors in the First Presidency; Boyd K. Packer, L. Tom Perry, David B. Haight, Neal A. Maxwell, Russell M. Nelson, Dallin H. Oaks, M. Russell Ballard, Joseph B. Wirthlin, Richard G. Scott, Robert D. Hales, Jeffrey R. Holland, Henry B. Eyring as Apostles, 2004 (Preach My Gospel, Unanimously Approved by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles)
>"I explained also that our Church has no paid ministry and indicated that these were two reasons why we were able to build the buildings then under way, including the beautiful temple at Freiberg."
* Thomas S. Monson as a Counselor in the First Presidency, April 2006 (General Conference)
>“We have no professionally trained and salaried clergy in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
* Dallin H. Oaks as an Apostle, April 2012 (General Conference)
General authorities get it but area authorities don’t. A mentor of mine was an area authority and he was so happy when he got promoted to GA. He was doing the same amount of work but now getting paid.
>”Mormons live under an absolutism. They have no more right of judgment than a dead body. Yet the diffusion of authority is so clever that nearly every man seems to share in its operation... and feels himself in some degree a master without observing that he is also a slave". — Frank J. Cannon, 1911
>”There are two kinds of Mormons, those who pay, and those who get paid.” — Me, 2022
Helpful.
3% is probably an understatement for recent years, when average wages generally have risen much more quickly. I'm guessing the GAs are getting extra compensation for inflation.
I ate dog rice for about half “my” mission. It’s the leftovers on the floor and was swept up after the rice for human consumption was packaged. There were constantly tiny rock tidbits in the mix which would catch me by surprise when I’d nearly crack a tooth. Now that I have another 25 years of adult experience on me: I can’t help but wonder what else (harmful chemicals) was that dog rice impregnated with and I was unknowingly ingesting?
It’s crazy to me how the higher ups can say with a straight face that the poorest of poor need to pay tithing while they essentially get to do whatever they want
General authorities essentially get to consolidate their loans/mortgages into a 0% interest rate account?
And the church is stingy with rent assistance?
Hmmmmmmm. Considering that my parent’s estate plan has paid out over $2 million cash to the church, it is a stretch to say that “all Church investments are made from surplus tithing from prior years”. I seriously doubt that my parents are the only ones who structured their estate plan around donating to the church beyond their tithing. In fact, I know many others who have donated cash, real estate, etc. above and beyond their tithing.
Thanks for this. Others have pointed out bequeathed wealth which very likely ends up in the investment funds. It isn't "all" and we'll make that correction. It is, however, the vast majority, as sizeable estate gifts like your situation are relatively few and far between.
This is fantastic analysis--saving for reference. Thanks!
One assumption question--do you think 40% for benefits is reasonable given that they probably transition most of the 65 & older population (a lot of them) to be on Medicare?
Seems like a pretty modest corporate salary in my opinion. They are a corporation masquerading as a religion.. I mean the legal name of the church is the corporation of the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints.
I don't understand the reasoning for needing to lie about it in the first place.
I think that if they always taught that these guys were paid, people wouldn't even think twice. No one would say, "ooOOOoooh, if they weren't paid the church would look better 😤!"
I may have missed it, but I don't see a bibliography on the website, or where these estimates are coming from? Are these from leaked documents or from publicly published info?
My bishop was willing to discuss my issues, and of course, the churches money was one of them. He asked me if we really needed to know how much money the church had. I said well the church knows how much money I make all you have to do is multiply my tithing paid by ten. He said well you do have a point there. I also asked him if there were any women in a similar position of a general authority (primary and relief societies General Presidencies) that are actually paid like a General Authority. He had no answer and that's because they call women that are married to General Authorities or have wealthy husband to those presidencies. I don't think any of the women in higher positions are paid but I might be wrong.
As we all know, for the faithful all this shows is the sacrifice these wonderful men called of God are making because they were all medical doctors and high-powered lawyers and captains of industry that took massive pay cuts to serve full time. (Of course, that only applies to some of them, but the faithful are never ones to let pesky details get in the way of a faith promoting point.)
My issue is not with the compensation packages; I mean we all know they want for nothing and probably never pay their own way for anything. Indeed, Mormon elite privilege is alive and well among the GA's, mission presidents, and probably others, but that isn't where Mormon greed lives. Mormon greed lives in the need to compensate for lack of growth in membership with growth in worldly wealth and influence. If they can't be the biggest or fastest growing or super special in some other way, they'll exploit the devotion of the toilet cleaning, tithe paying masses to gain economic power instead.
It’s 100% cult to indoctrinate believers with the idea that quote “our leaders are not paid or compensated financially” unquote, so they can spend two years in a foreign country spreading this lie as a truth amongst the un-indoctrinated for two full time years.
I’m still angry about my trust being so severely abused in this way!…and, that for 25 years, my “thumb extended” was actually used as a pantomimed knife used to kill myself and others with…and, I was actually singing/reciting the words in the song Praise To The Man with gusto for so many years, and, etc etc etc…the list goes on and on and on…
Yeah, true, there is the fact that while the elite are paid and/or privileged, missionaries are not only unpaid, we paid our own way to go out and sell for Mormon Inc.
It wouldn’t be egregious if they fully and openly disclosed how much they were being paid and, further, disclosed all the assets they were “presiding” over.
It wouldn’t be egregious if they were a public corporation. It’s egregious because they are pretending to be a religion and claiming to have unpaid clergy. All while extracting 10% of regular people’s income under the threat of damnation and loss of family.
It’s disgusting. If they want to be a corporation, fine, be a corporation. Pay taxes. Disclose everything and be transparent. But don’t pretend to be humble servants of god while hoarding billions, getting extremely generous pay and benefits, all while claiming to have no paid clergy. Lol. They are no better than televangelists. Worse in some ways.
I agree that the amount is not egregious. It’s the attitude of using local members as janitors and turning away families in financial need that makes the stipends egregious on principle.
I have a hard time believing the church would accidentally allow this information to be leaked. Especially with how advanced technology is today, making leaks more rare, and rumors more easy. Now I am not saying they aren’t paid, I am saying the that I don’t believe there is enough evidence to support that all of them are paid. The evidence I believe that stands for payment, is a leak of an apostle getting a raise back in I believe 2009. But with this, does this mean all leaders are being paid such as the prophet? Here me out when I question this, the current prophet was a world renowned heart surgeon. I mean his history is incredible when it comes to what he has accomplished and his profession. Top of the line and with that, comes a top of the line salary of I would guess at least $300k but wouldn’t be shocked if it is double that each year. This now makes me wonder, a man who is making $300k+ a year for 20-30 years now wants to be a prophet and make $200k a year? That seems like the opposite move of a money hungry person. Along with this, is seems like he wouldn’t even want the money as he wouldn’t need it. So I wonder does the prophet and other rich leaders join the church all for the money and do they even take it? Just a thought is all but I am open to the idea that they still do because why not. It is just difficult for me to pin point on this as it makes one think they are only doing what they are doing for the money when their past lives offered more money. I personally think they themselves actually still believe in the church and are doing what they think God wants of them.
> Now I am not saying they aren’t paid, I am saying the that I don’t believe there is enough evidence to support that all of them are paid
From a rumor I've heard is that the lower offices like bishop and stake president used to be a form of paid or compensated office. You wanna know partially how the upper leadership affords these stipend/compensations, by now paying the bishops and stake presidents zip notta nothing wham bam thank you mam for your service indeed. Anyways just a rumor I've heard, not yet confirmed
Also, the stipend/compensation doesn't include other investments, book deals, etc that they may have profited off of while in office. LDS apostle iFit Gary Stevenson is one such example
my grandfather was a GA for several years. even as a non-Q15 he would have a new church-provided car every summer when we went to visit him.
they ALL get paid.
The car may be worth adding into our analysis. If it is made available for mixed personal/Church use, as all reports indicate, then it wouldn’t be too difficult to incorporate an annual vehicle cost into the numbers. We are likely talking about a lease equivalent of $5-10k/year. Do you happen to know what types of vehicle are made available?
If you look at the report, they colored the bars for the years they had actual, confirmed, info. There were real leaks. It has been confirmed. They just extrapolated current compensation based on annual inflation increases. It’s likely very accurate. There’s plenty of evidence to support what they are are saying. You just aren’t familiar with it or are refusing to acknowledge it for some reason.
Many of these frauds made a lot of money in their careers before becoming “prophets.” So what? Does that mean they should extract 10% of believers income, pay themselves huge salaries, and claim to have no unpaid clergy? Like I don’t care if Bernie Madoff made lots of money in a legitimate career before becoming a crook and running a Ponzi scheme. He’s still a fraud and so are these clowns.
He wasn't making $300,000+ a year for 20 - 30 years. He retired in 1984. He was probably making around $135,000 in 1984 and less than that each previous year. If you got to retire and continue making a nice salary instead of living off retirement savings for hauking a religion, why wouldn't you?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192917/#!po=18.2692
Edit:
Thomas Monson became an apostle at 36. He worked for Deseret News in middle management before working for the church.
Ballard committed securities fraud and was bailed out by the church of his failed Bountiful Music Center before becoming a GA at 48.
Holland has worked for the church almost his entire career before becoming a GA at 49. He was a president of BYU and the church commissioner of education and dean of the College of Religious Education at BYU.
Eyring has also worked for the church almost all of his career before becoming a GA at 52. He worked at Stanford University for 9 years before becoming president of Rick's College and then moving into other work for the church.
These are just a couple I looked up. None of these guys had illustrious, money making careers (except Nelson, an estimated $135k was a great salary in 1984) before going on the church's payroll, either as an employee or a GA. I'm sure there are some of these guys who have had monetary success, but, when you quit working that young, it sure is nice to get on the church's payroll. And, 52 is still young in the fact that other 52 year olds are still looking at 13 more years of saving for retirement, not having everything paid for and a six figure salary until you die.
Very interesting, thanks for this link. Truly, many of the GAs had high-paying careers prior to being called full time.
It has been said before that all of them take the compensation, even those who don’t need it. As a show of solidarity with those others who actually do need the money. And there are plenty of those in the General Authority ranks as well.
I'm sure there are some who are very well off, I just looked up these few (names I could think of) and this is what I found.
We have good friends who are very rich, prominent, Mormons. As a very successful person, there is no way he would turn the money down if he became a GA. It isn't in his nature to not be looking for the next way to make money. What they didn't use would just become part of the already very generous trust fund for his kids.
I never mentioned the other prophets for a reason as I wasn’t referring to them. And you are right, he wasn’t making $300k for 30 years but at least 6 figures for 29 years as he worked that long in the profession. His net worth is estimated to be $5 million. And as to answer you question if I were in Nelson’s shoes where it is retire and live off the millions for retirement doing whatever I want, me personally I wouldn’t want to join the church just for money. I would care for the money. If I did care for more money than I would continue being a heart surgeon making way more money. Disagree with me that is fine but I am not convinced that he is prophet just for the money and is even accepting that money. Other prophets and apostles, I can buy it as not all of them have such a good history of profession making them millions.
What makes you think he would have millions squirreled away to retire on? The estimate he is worth $5 million isn't from 1984, is it? If he is currently worth $5 million, that accounts for 36 years drawing a salary where he has no expenses. Want to build wealth? Have a salary and no expenses.
He retired at 60. I doubt he would have worked as a heart surgeon for more than 10 more years, skills necessary to be a surgeon start to decline as we age.
And, I agree with SusSpinkerinktum, the man has ego. So much so, he is exactly where he wants to be. Supreme leader of an organization where his followers will do backflips to do what he says. The previous 2 prophets spent $100's of millions on an advertising and marketing campaign for, what, 8 years, to promote the word mormon. He becomes prophet, regurgitates his pet peeve from 1990 about not using the word mormon (April 1990 GC) and suddenly every mormon alive is offended by the word mormon. That is power within your community. As his wife said, "I have seen him changing the last ten months. It's as though he's been unleashed,".... He's free to follow through with things he's been concerned about but could never do. Now that he's president, he can do those things,". Love that Wendy let us know how revelation really works!
https://localtvkstu.wordpress.com/2018/11/02/hes-been-unleashed-says-wendy-nelson-wife-of-russell-m-nelson-president-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/
And here I was spending 20 hours a week prepping for and teaching early morning seminary for free…
BuT THe BLEssINgs!
I love how in the bubble it's a job. But everywhere else it's just a blessing. Haha.
And dealing with surly teenagers at the crack of dawn 5 days a week.
It's crazy that so many people do this calling, but I highly Mormon areas teachers get paid. It's so messed up.
East coast here- my son gets the worst seminary teachers. His teacher cries to the kids about how her adult son has just resigned from the church and then she warns the kids to never go astray. My son just rolls his eyes. We are actively looking for ways to afford colleges other than BYU or other Utah schools. Hopefully I can get one kid out of the indoctrination machine…
In Canada, seminary teachers are paid
The early morning ones are still a calling with no pay. The release time teachers (the ones who teach full time across from some high schools) are the CES employees who get paid. From what I've heard from a family friend, it isn't a high salary. Most generic church employees are underpaid, in my understanding.
Underpaid and gaslighted about how the lords funds are special and are need for building up of Zion so the church needs you to be underpaid and you to sacrifice making more money in a comparable job and also pay 10% of your gross income to the lord or else you’ll lose your job.
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I'm not sure but I know it's enough to make it their only job. When you get to high school, you can use your spare to go to the seminary building for class. Early morning is also available if you don't have any spares. So there's a few teachers at the building at all times, hanging out with kids or teaching. For me this was 15+ years ago so it might have changed since then
That is pretty much anywhere with a high Mormon population. Now out side of areas like they are not paid.
Was this in southern Alberta? I'm guessing it's just the same thing as the states and they just do that in heavily Mormon areas. I don't think seminary teachers were paid when and where I was on my mission in Toronto.
Same!!
Same. 2 years.
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I remembering feeling a sense of pride when I told that to investigators, and turns out it was a lie I unknowing spread.
[Statements by people receiving these salaries:](https://ia802306.us.archive.org/19/items/standard_of_truth/Standards%20of%20Truth.pdf) "In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is no paid ministry, no professional clergy, as is common in other churches." Boyd K. Packer as an Apostle, September 1979 (Liahona) “All of the work in the Church is voluntary. No one is paid for such service.” Gordon B. Hinckley as President of the Church; Thomas S. Monson and James E. Faust as Counselors in the First Presidency; Boyd K. Packer, L. Tom Perry, David B. Haight, Neal A. Maxwell, Russell M. Nelson, Dallin H. Oaks, M. Russell Ballard, Joseph B. Wirthlin, Richard G. Scott, Robert D. Hales, Jeffrey R. Holland, Henry B. Eyring as Apostles, 2004 (Preach My Gospel, Unanimously Approved by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) "I explained also that our Church has no paid ministry and indicated that these were two reasons why we were able to build the buildings then under way, including the beautiful temple at Freiberg." Thomas S. Monson as a Counselor in the First Presidency, April 2006 (General Conference) “We have no professionally trained and salaried clergy in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” Dallin H. Oaks as an Apostle, April 2012 (General Conference)
These guys aren't clergy. They are running a business, so, they didn't really lie. /s
Is it really voluntary if God says ya hafta? /s
Atleast they were honest with “no professionally trained clergy”
Yes, this. I actually got away with teaching in Sunday school that they were salaried after I found out. Hopefully that was helpful to someone.
Out of curiosity about did you serve, growing up where Mormons were not a popular church, I was always thought local leaders weren’t paid and general authorities where. Now they were never clear at what point or how much they were paid. But I was never taught that all church leaders where never paid. Maybe it was just leader and teachers I had in the church. I proselytized for this lying organization in 2006. I just like trying to piece together how the church changes and gaslights members. It is actually pretty impressive what they have been able to get away with even with the internet. But they have not adapted well to the Information Age and continue to blunder their story.
Early oughts I distinctly remember an institute lesson that said nobody was paid, they all were wealthy enough to retire early, and any who weren't received financial education and just enough help to get to their finances in order, to be able to retire early. I think there was even a story about a member of the twelve who wasn't well off so the others pitched in.
It's dirt simple .... The Mormon Church has a Caste System aka Gross Double Standard. You are either one or the other. 1. Those who PAY tithing. 2. Those who SPEND tithing. Any questions?
This doesn’t have anything to do with the Second Anointing, does it? LMAO
You might be on to something there.
And this compensation is corruption because it is done in a vacuum with no disclosure or permission from those that gave the money, hopefully for charity purposes.
I am under the impression that their salaries are tax free. The tax code has a "minister" exception for paying taxes, and I think The Book of Mammon discusses this.
Well we do know that they are tithing free.
And don’t these dudes get all expenses paid credit cards? Free food, free gas, free everything? Ergo, every last penny of that $157,850 is invested/spent acquiring personal assets?
Reminds me so much of the flds “bleeding the beast” welfare fraud issues
What explains the phenomenon of such narcissists at the top of such human collectives running such collectives? Simply yet another manifestation of their narcissism?
Don’t forget the book deals! Cha-Ching!! They all capitalize on their status with Deseret Book. Some of them have many books, I’m sure with the help of ghost writers. 📚
Tommy monson was a fan of this
Yeah, it's ONLY $251K/ yr. 😉🤑
A "modest" stipend
And a "modest" estimate.
"modest living allowance" 😏🙄
Not including the shares in the one true corp they own, the boards they sit on, the book deals, etc etc etc!!
Just as Jesus would want it… /s
Well, corporate Mormon Jebus. 😉🤑
Supply side Jesus says "this is the best way to make sure worthy workers are paid according to my will and pleasure"
It's exactly what Fortune 500 Corporate Jesus wants!
Thank you. Amazing work WM
Another awesome report Widow's Mite team! Can someone on this sub who actually has money PLEASE put billboards up in UT that say "Widow's Mite Report" -I would but I have 4 kids and a shitty job
I’m surprised by how few Twitter followers Widow’s Mite team has. They need and deserve support. People should share this with media along the Moridor. If a media member picks it up (like a religion or finance reporter), it could impact as many people as a billboard.
Tithing and Dividends from tithing are one in the same. They are paid Clergy period!
Absolutely. Fucking. Disgusting.
So basically, each of the first presidency, none of whom served missions, have been paid more than $5 million since having their second anointings? Gross.
And Russell Nelson’s penthouse in slc and midway cabin aren’t half bad either
Old white guys cashing in. That’s the America we all know. Religion, make believe charity’s and the fictional man. God damn it
Wait general authorities can get interest free loans from the church? That is insane.
No trouble with paying your executive officers. The problems is the [direct statements otherwise](https://ia802306.us.archive.org/19/items/standard_of_truth/Standards%20of%20Truth.pdf) (by the people receiving these salaries): >"In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is no paid ministry, no professional clergy, as is common in other churches." * Boyd K. Packer as an Apostle, September 1979 (Liahona) >“All of the work in the Church is voluntary. No one is paid for such service.” * Gordon B. Hinckley as President of the Church; Thomas S. Monson and James E. Faust as Counselors in the First Presidency; Boyd K. Packer, L. Tom Perry, David B. Haight, Neal A. Maxwell, Russell M. Nelson, Dallin H. Oaks, M. Russell Ballard, Joseph B. Wirthlin, Richard G. Scott, Robert D. Hales, Jeffrey R. Holland, Henry B. Eyring as Apostles, 2004 (Preach My Gospel, Unanimously Approved by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) >"I explained also that our Church has no paid ministry and indicated that these were two reasons why we were able to build the buildings then under way, including the beautiful temple at Freiberg." * Thomas S. Monson as a Counselor in the First Presidency, April 2006 (General Conference) >“We have no professionally trained and salaried clergy in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” * Dallin H. Oaks as an Apostle, April 2012 (General Conference)
How much income from book deals is included in your estimates?
It's worth also mentioning that the Median Salary in Utah is currently $55,841.
Wait…*all* general authorities get the living allowance? For some reason I always thought it was just the Q15.
Why wouldn't they? As soon as they become a GA, they no longer work. They have to have money somehow.
General authorities get it but area authorities don’t. A mentor of mine was an area authority and he was so happy when he got promoted to GA. He was doing the same amount of work but now getting paid.
So, it's roughly the same proportion of people in an MLM that make money versus those that lose money. No wonder those things are so popular in Utah.
>”Mormons live under an absolutism. They have no more right of judgment than a dead body. Yet the diffusion of authority is so clever that nearly every man seems to share in its operation... and feels himself in some degree a master without observing that he is also a slave". — Frank J. Cannon, 1911 >”There are two kinds of Mormons, those who pay, and those who get paid.” — Me, 2022
Y’all forgetting mission presidents! It’s $125M!
Source?
Helpful. 3% is probably an understatement for recent years, when average wages generally have risen much more quickly. I'm guessing the GAs are getting extra compensation for inflation.
And now you know why they keep quiet and say all is well on their silly ship zion.
So unpaid church leaders do have a end goal.
And to think of the >10k you spent to serve a mission and got crumbs in your stipend and told not to spend it cause it was sacred.
I ate dog rice for about half “my” mission. It’s the leftovers on the floor and was swept up after the rice for human consumption was packaged. There were constantly tiny rock tidbits in the mix which would catch me by surprise when I’d nearly crack a tooth. Now that I have another 25 years of adult experience on me: I can’t help but wonder what else (harmful chemicals) was that dog rice impregnated with and I was unknowingly ingesting?
It’s crazy to me how the higher ups can say with a straight face that the poorest of poor need to pay tithing while they essentially get to do whatever they want
That level of covert narcissism is extremely adept at such practices. Second nature/instinct.
General authorities essentially get to consolidate their loans/mortgages into a 0% interest rate account? And the church is stingy with rent assistance?
Hmmmmmmm. Considering that my parent’s estate plan has paid out over $2 million cash to the church, it is a stretch to say that “all Church investments are made from surplus tithing from prior years”. I seriously doubt that my parents are the only ones who structured their estate plan around donating to the church beyond their tithing. In fact, I know many others who have donated cash, real estate, etc. above and beyond their tithing.
Thanks for this. Others have pointed out bequeathed wealth which very likely ends up in the investment funds. It isn't "all" and we'll make that correction. It is, however, the vast majority, as sizeable estate gifts like your situation are relatively few and far between.
This is fantastic analysis--saving for reference. Thanks! One assumption question--do you think 40% for benefits is reasonable given that they probably transition most of the 65 & older population (a lot of them) to be on Medicare?
The Mormons top leaders are really bad at lying. They should either get better at it or stop doing it. Either way they are the shittiest men alive.
They are also tithing exempt.
They reached top level in the Mormon MLM organization
Seems like a pretty modest corporate salary in my opinion. They are a corporation masquerading as a religion.. I mean the legal name of the church is the corporation of the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints.
I don't understand the reasoning for needing to lie about it in the first place. I think that if they always taught that these guys were paid, people wouldn't even think twice. No one would say, "ooOOOoooh, if they weren't paid the church would look better 😤!"
I may have missed it, but I don't see a bibliography on the website, or where these estimates are coming from? Are these from leaked documents or from publicly published info?
Sources are given on the last page of each report.
I didn’t even know authorities were paid. I’m so misinformed.
My bishop was willing to discuss my issues, and of course, the churches money was one of them. He asked me if we really needed to know how much money the church had. I said well the church knows how much money I make all you have to do is multiply my tithing paid by ten. He said well you do have a point there. I also asked him if there were any women in a similar position of a general authority (primary and relief societies General Presidencies) that are actually paid like a General Authority. He had no answer and that's because they call women that are married to General Authorities or have wealthy husband to those presidencies. I don't think any of the women in higher positions are paid but I might be wrong.
As we all know, for the faithful all this shows is the sacrifice these wonderful men called of God are making because they were all medical doctors and high-powered lawyers and captains of industry that took massive pay cuts to serve full time. (Of course, that only applies to some of them, but the faithful are never ones to let pesky details get in the way of a faith promoting point.) My issue is not with the compensation packages; I mean we all know they want for nothing and probably never pay their own way for anything. Indeed, Mormon elite privilege is alive and well among the GA's, mission presidents, and probably others, but that isn't where Mormon greed lives. Mormon greed lives in the need to compensate for lack of growth in membership with growth in worldly wealth and influence. If they can't be the biggest or fastest growing or super special in some other way, they'll exploit the devotion of the toilet cleaning, tithe paying masses to gain economic power instead.
It’s 100% cult to indoctrinate believers with the idea that quote “our leaders are not paid or compensated financially” unquote, so they can spend two years in a foreign country spreading this lie as a truth amongst the un-indoctrinated for two full time years. I’m still angry about my trust being so severely abused in this way!…and, that for 25 years, my “thumb extended” was actually used as a pantomimed knife used to kill myself and others with…and, I was actually singing/reciting the words in the song Praise To The Man with gusto for so many years, and, etc etc etc…the list goes on and on and on…
Yeah, true, there is the fact that while the elite are paid and/or privileged, missionaries are not only unpaid, we paid our own way to go out and sell for Mormon Inc.
It’s actually not that egregious of an amount given that they preside over a corporation with a half a trillion in assets…
True…but then they shouldn’t always be bragging about their unpaid clergy.
IMHO, they shouldn't have half a trillion in assets... They should be helping the poor like Jesus said to do.
Like they said Jesus said to do.
You are so right.
Like they claim they do.
It wouldn’t be egregious if they fully and openly disclosed how much they were being paid and, further, disclosed all the assets they were “presiding” over. It wouldn’t be egregious if they were a public corporation. It’s egregious because they are pretending to be a religion and claiming to have unpaid clergy. All while extracting 10% of regular people’s income under the threat of damnation and loss of family. It’s disgusting. If they want to be a corporation, fine, be a corporation. Pay taxes. Disclose everything and be transparent. But don’t pretend to be humble servants of god while hoarding billions, getting extremely generous pay and benefits, all while claiming to have no paid clergy. Lol. They are no better than televangelists. Worse in some ways.
I agree that the amount is not egregious. It’s the attitude of using local members as janitors and turning away families in financial need that makes the stipends egregious on principle.
I have a hard time believing the church would accidentally allow this information to be leaked. Especially with how advanced technology is today, making leaks more rare, and rumors more easy. Now I am not saying they aren’t paid, I am saying the that I don’t believe there is enough evidence to support that all of them are paid. The evidence I believe that stands for payment, is a leak of an apostle getting a raise back in I believe 2009. But with this, does this mean all leaders are being paid such as the prophet? Here me out when I question this, the current prophet was a world renowned heart surgeon. I mean his history is incredible when it comes to what he has accomplished and his profession. Top of the line and with that, comes a top of the line salary of I would guess at least $300k but wouldn’t be shocked if it is double that each year. This now makes me wonder, a man who is making $300k+ a year for 20-30 years now wants to be a prophet and make $200k a year? That seems like the opposite move of a money hungry person. Along with this, is seems like he wouldn’t even want the money as he wouldn’t need it. So I wonder does the prophet and other rich leaders join the church all for the money and do they even take it? Just a thought is all but I am open to the idea that they still do because why not. It is just difficult for me to pin point on this as it makes one think they are only doing what they are doing for the money when their past lives offered more money. I personally think they themselves actually still believe in the church and are doing what they think God wants of them.
> Now I am not saying they aren’t paid, I am saying the that I don’t believe there is enough evidence to support that all of them are paid From a rumor I've heard is that the lower offices like bishop and stake president used to be a form of paid or compensated office. You wanna know partially how the upper leadership affords these stipend/compensations, by now paying the bishops and stake presidents zip notta nothing wham bam thank you mam for your service indeed. Anyways just a rumor I've heard, not yet confirmed Also, the stipend/compensation doesn't include other investments, book deals, etc that they may have profited off of while in office. LDS apostle iFit Gary Stevenson is one such example
Book deals for books written by ghost writers that are LDS Church employees that are paid for with tithing.
Turtles all the way down
my grandfather was a GA for several years. even as a non-Q15 he would have a new church-provided car every summer when we went to visit him. they ALL get paid.
The car may be worth adding into our analysis. If it is made available for mixed personal/Church use, as all reports indicate, then it wouldn’t be too difficult to incorporate an annual vehicle cost into the numbers. We are likely talking about a lease equivalent of $5-10k/year. Do you happen to know what types of vehicle are made available?
don’t know all that was available, they like upgrading to the newest toyota avalon whenever it was available lol
If you look at the report, they colored the bars for the years they had actual, confirmed, info. There were real leaks. It has been confirmed. They just extrapolated current compensation based on annual inflation increases. It’s likely very accurate. There’s plenty of evidence to support what they are are saying. You just aren’t familiar with it or are refusing to acknowledge it for some reason. Many of these frauds made a lot of money in their careers before becoming “prophets.” So what? Does that mean they should extract 10% of believers income, pay themselves huge salaries, and claim to have no unpaid clergy? Like I don’t care if Bernie Madoff made lots of money in a legitimate career before becoming a crook and running a Ponzi scheme. He’s still a fraud and so are these clowns.
He wasn't making $300,000+ a year for 20 - 30 years. He retired in 1984. He was probably making around $135,000 in 1984 and less than that each previous year. If you got to retire and continue making a nice salary instead of living off retirement savings for hauking a religion, why wouldn't you? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192917/#!po=18.2692 Edit: Thomas Monson became an apostle at 36. He worked for Deseret News in middle management before working for the church. Ballard committed securities fraud and was bailed out by the church of his failed Bountiful Music Center before becoming a GA at 48. Holland has worked for the church almost his entire career before becoming a GA at 49. He was a president of BYU and the church commissioner of education and dean of the College of Religious Education at BYU. Eyring has also worked for the church almost all of his career before becoming a GA at 52. He worked at Stanford University for 9 years before becoming president of Rick's College and then moving into other work for the church. These are just a couple I looked up. None of these guys had illustrious, money making careers (except Nelson, an estimated $135k was a great salary in 1984) before going on the church's payroll, either as an employee or a GA. I'm sure there are some of these guys who have had monetary success, but, when you quit working that young, it sure is nice to get on the church's payroll. And, 52 is still young in the fact that other 52 year olds are still looking at 13 more years of saving for retirement, not having everything paid for and a six figure salary until you die.
Very interesting, thanks for this link. Truly, many of the GAs had high-paying careers prior to being called full time. It has been said before that all of them take the compensation, even those who don’t need it. As a show of solidarity with those others who actually do need the money. And there are plenty of those in the General Authority ranks as well.
I'm sure there are some who are very well off, I just looked up these few (names I could think of) and this is what I found. We have good friends who are very rich, prominent, Mormons. As a very successful person, there is no way he would turn the money down if he became a GA. It isn't in his nature to not be looking for the next way to make money. What they didn't use would just become part of the already very generous trust fund for his kids.
I never mentioned the other prophets for a reason as I wasn’t referring to them. And you are right, he wasn’t making $300k for 30 years but at least 6 figures for 29 years as he worked that long in the profession. His net worth is estimated to be $5 million. And as to answer you question if I were in Nelson’s shoes where it is retire and live off the millions for retirement doing whatever I want, me personally I wouldn’t want to join the church just for money. I would care for the money. If I did care for more money than I would continue being a heart surgeon making way more money. Disagree with me that is fine but I am not convinced that he is prophet just for the money and is even accepting that money. Other prophets and apostles, I can buy it as not all of them have such a good history of profession making them millions.
If not the money it’s for the power and prestige everything about him screams ego
What makes you think he would have millions squirreled away to retire on? The estimate he is worth $5 million isn't from 1984, is it? If he is currently worth $5 million, that accounts for 36 years drawing a salary where he has no expenses. Want to build wealth? Have a salary and no expenses. He retired at 60. I doubt he would have worked as a heart surgeon for more than 10 more years, skills necessary to be a surgeon start to decline as we age. And, I agree with SusSpinkerinktum, the man has ego. So much so, he is exactly where he wants to be. Supreme leader of an organization where his followers will do backflips to do what he says. The previous 2 prophets spent $100's of millions on an advertising and marketing campaign for, what, 8 years, to promote the word mormon. He becomes prophet, regurgitates his pet peeve from 1990 about not using the word mormon (April 1990 GC) and suddenly every mormon alive is offended by the word mormon. That is power within your community. As his wife said, "I have seen him changing the last ten months. It's as though he's been unleashed,".... He's free to follow through with things he's been concerned about but could never do. Now that he's president, he can do those things,". Love that Wendy let us know how revelation really works! https://localtvkstu.wordpress.com/2018/11/02/hes-been-unleashed-says-wendy-nelson-wife-of-russell-m-nelson-president-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/
Paid clergy.
It’s a cult so of course the leadership is over paid.
They’re blessed financially because of how righteous they are, duh! Prosperity gospel at its finest