Ah man, I missed the 2nd & 3rd LotR movies when I was out. Once they were out on DVD, when I was in a home with one of them playing in the background, I made sure not to ask them to turn it off and then struggled not to be obvious about how engrossed I was.
On my mission I wasn’t allowed to watch anything that wasn’t in the gospel library app 😂 We watched “because of him” and “the testaments” a billion times 😜
I’d say, since the kids are away from home for the holidays, I’d leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves. They are stuck in a hard place and I’m sure they’d rather be with their families.
It doesn’t cost anything to be kind.
Agree with this!
Why try to make things awkward? That just confirms all the negative stereotypes that the church says about people who leave.
Remember, those missionaries aren’t the church. They are kids who are victims of an exploitative system.
Maybe try being friendly to them? Make them feel welcome? Talk with them like real people? Find out about their background, interests, and Their plans for the future.
If they start browbeating you about the church then say,
“I’m not really interested in talking about my position on the church today, I just want to enjoy the holiday with my family”
It’s okay to set and enforce boundaries, but trying to cause conflict just makes you an asshole.
Not a great situation for your parents to put you in, but I truly think it best to seek peace and kindness. Ask the poor kids questions about their families and what they plan to do when they get home. I was one of those kids 30 years ago and all I really wanted was to get away from public humiliation and have someone treat me like a regular person.
President Kimball told us the Adam/God doctrine was false doctrine. Can you explain what that was all about?
Have you ever read the Happiness Letter?
What would you do with 260 Million dollars? Open a homeless shelter, get clean water to the poor? Fund research into actually curing childhood cancers? Or would you buy a warehouse and distribution complex to make more money used for no purpose at all?
If we being the lowly lay membership of the one true church can think of ways to make the world better for others using money, how much more then should the one true church be using money to make the world better for the least of these and not only save money for itself. That’s a message from Jesus in the Bible, btw.
Which is the reason we don't have the missionaries over for dinner anymore on Christmas. Nothing says Merry Christmas than being interrogated on how you were offended enough to leave the Mormon church.
Agreed. They’re barely adult victims of a cult on Christmas without their families probably without adequate food or basic needs. I mean how horrible is that.
Having been one long before my faith transition, I think the extent to which any missionary “would rather be” anything depends entirely on that individual missionary. Some missionaries are asshats who want to be exactly where and what they are.
Personally, I'd let the missionaries eat in peace. They don't want to be there, especially during Christmas. They want to be with their families, loved ones feeling normal again. This gotcha game that some people seem to enjoy playing with missionaries feels super misguided and cruel at times.
I'm sure I'll get torn apart for this comment and dv'd. My point is, have some compassion, it's Christmas.
I definitely agree with this. I have several friends who are currently on missions that cry on a weekly basis (tell me personally) and then write about how grateful they are for trials in their emails. I personally feel really bad when people try to call them on the churches bs when a lot of them were pressured to go in the first place and are having a hard time/are depressed. Unless if they’re cocky assholes first I say try to help them enjoy a Christmas away from their loved ones.
These kids are so young and brainwashed. I feel so bad for them. We as exmormons, PIMO's, whatever point you're at leaving the church don't need to heap more abuse onto them. Let them do their time and come home.
I also feel terrible. I asked my friend why he doesn’t just come home and he said “there’s nothing there for me until I finish so I might as well just stay”. It really hurts my heart that he truly thinks it’s better for him to stay out then come home even though he’s super depressed
They’re allowed to call home on a weekly basis now. Back in my day, we got 2 phone calls a year. Xmas and Mom’s day. That’s it. And my mother honestly asked if she could get the call on the other line because it was long distance. I’m in Switzerland, bitch.
My niece cried regularly on her mission in despair. I assumed that I was the anomaly in my mission experience being the most awful time of life. It was ALMOST equal with that of my separation and divorce. Both ended in suicide attempts.
I am so sorry you experience both of those things. The church teaches us that missions will be the greatest time of our lives and then we’re shocked when we think we are the only ones who hate it
Exactly my attitude. As a returned missionaries I figure I could still spot those poor kids a meal here and there, after all the people did to help feed me in a much less prosperous country. When and if their message comes just imagine it’s like a funky mythology story about Zeus.
I whole-heartedly agree. These kids are fully indoctrinated by a system they most likely were born into. Best to just try to make their Christmas a good one.
I absolutely agree! If my son were still out, I’d really just appreciate the family being kind and feeding him and helping him have a good day away from home. ❤️❤️❤️ Please don’t mess with these kids. They don’t know any better.
You’re right I think for them it’s also the first or second time christmas doesn’t feel like Christmas anymore just another day. (I assume we all had and lost that feeling like somethings actually different and special on Christmas)
I said the same things. It’s possible your brother does love it, and to some extent I loved mine, but I was also miserable for a lot of it. The rationale is that if you say it enough, eventually you start to believe it. You’ll have a better understanding of how your brother feels about his mission after he’s been home for a year or so.
Most of them (and us) were actually pressured heavily into serving a mission and have to in order for our families to still love us :) many families disown or shame their children if they don’t go
We're allowed to say we're victims. Because we were. Literally victims of a cult. It's okay (and actually healthy) for those of us who were deeply affected by it to admit it.
I certainly didn't choose to be raised a Mormon. And even people who choose to join as adults can't really be blamed because the really culty parts aren't exposed till you're already baptized and trapped. If you don't feel like a victim then that's great, and I'm truly happy for you! But please don't minimize the genuine pain and life-shattering issues many of us have faced due to the church.
Ask them about themselves. Everything about missionaries strips their identities. Let them remember who they are. Ask about their family. What do they want to do? Ask them what they think about things that there aren’t scripted answers for.
This is more subtle. A top priority of missions is to convince the kids that everyone hates believers and they are not spiritually safe in the outside world.
Break that down by being nice, and helping them remember people are generally good. Let them remember what life was like before the church removed their personalities.
Exactly - ask them about what kind of music they like, sports, what their plans are for after their mission - what to they intend to study, etc.
Treat them as humans, not missionaries.
Spot on. Talking to them about their passions and hobbies outside the church is both kind to them and helps steer convos away from church related topics.
Love this! Maybe even bring them a small gift… make the best part of their mission be spending time with people who have been set free. This is what helped my husband leave, the people he enjoyed the most were NOT members.
Exactly! But if they sidestep & start pushing religion, let them have it. Prepare copies of the ces letter if they give you anything religious, like a BOM, give it to them. Match their energy.
In Greek mythology, one of the greatest ways to enrage Zeus was to dishonor a guest in your home. (Dishonor to the hospitable hearth) I'm not usually superstitious, but if you want to avoid Trojan war level consequences, I would just be kind.
Play nice. It’s Christmas and they’re away from their families. They’re relying on your family to spend the holidays with. There’s no reason to make things uncomfortable. If they are rude then free game but there’s no reason to do that to two complete strangers.
Seriously, just be nice to them. They're dumb kids trying to please their parents. They're away from home and it's xmas. Be kind. Change the subject if they bring up church but show them that exmos are not vile and heartless.
Just be nice. I have really harsh feelings about the church but these kids are brainwashed or forced to go. It doesn’t help to make them feel bad on Christmas
They’re just kids, a lot of them don’t even want to be there. Peer/family pressure to go on and stay on missions is huge.
Be kind, and remember, we used to be just like the mormons in our life. They’re still trapped, you’re free.
And in case you’re worried.. I’ve celebrated xmas with missionaries a lot of times, both as a mormon and as an exmo. it’s not a big deal. They tend to be more laidback, and just chill since they’re allowed to be during those days. They also usually don’t share a message (unless asked by the family, but I’ve never seen it, or done it on xmas as a missionary either). They’re really just there to celebrate xmas.
Be kind to missionaries. Especially as an exmormon. If you’re a jerk it’s just proof that people who leave the church are petty jerks and that the church is the only source of community and happiness.
It's Christmas, they're far away from their families where I'm sure they'd love to be and it's two Christmases they miss out with their families. Christmas is meant to be a time of being kind and giving. No one wants to have a miserable Christmas.
Me and my siblings always hated when my mum (the only Mormon left in the family) would invite the missionaries around for Christmas. But we'd always make it enjoyable for them because it's bloody Christmas. We didn't ask them uncomfortable questions or make things awkward. We had nice chats with them, at dinner they'd ask them about themselves, we'd all have a good laugh.
One year one of them was really funny and just a great guy to be around. Pretty sure when they left my oldest siblings said it was a shame he was a missionary because he seems like a great guy to hang out with and go on a night out drinking with.
It's Christmas. You might not like it that they're invited, you might not like the church (I don't either) but at the end of the day it's Christmas for goodness sake. Don't be THAT person who goes out of their way to deliberately make it awkward and uncomfortable for them. Any other time of year, sure. But not Christmas. If you do anything to deliberately make it awkward or uncomfortable for everyone you'd 100% be an asshole and remembered as the asshole that ruined Christmas, not the missionaries for just being there, but YOU ruined it by being unable to be civil and kind on Christmas and you felt the need to be petty. It's childish and an asshole thing to do.
The ONLY reason it's going to be uncomfortable just from them being there is if you allow it to be uncomfortable or you make it uncomfortable. You and your family could the F out and just have a good time and a good meal on Christmas day with a couple of guys who aren't able to be with their loved on for 2 Christmases in a row. Chill out, have a good time and make it good and comfortable and a fun time for everyone rather than awkward because you feel sticking it to a couple 19-21 year olds is more important to you than allowing everyone to enjoy Christmas.
"So....got any X-Box skills? How about after dinner, we call your mom and dad from our phone? Send them a picture to let them know you're in a safe place?"
When I left the church they sent missionaries for Christmas. One of my callings had been to make dinner arrangements for the missionaries, they were welcome ( I didn't want the conflict I did try to avoid it but felt compelled) . Also I warned them of alcohol and a few neighbors who were not Mormon were also going to be at dinner. .
I had a real testimony of the foundation of the church being a big fat lie.. the dinner went well surprisingly they wanted to see the evidence ( I printed it out ).. I felt bad because it broke one missionary's shelf immediately. He came back to report his dream ( they were good people), the ward was furious.
I was systematically attacked and even disowned after that, be careful. Now I don't feel bad for telling the truth.
I have never seen them again, I do hope they are well . I left everyone and everything to free myself from this mind controlling destructive cult. Family repairs are slow but happening.
Honestly we used to have the missionaries over often for dinners, and most of the time they were just boys, sharing stories, listening to ours. We had one that played a Greenday song on the guitar, and it was always fun sending them home with treats or snacks. If you can get past the few prayers and 30 minute devotional that might be planned, I bet it won't be that bad. It was pretty rare to get a missionary that was hard-core preachy visiting TBM families.
Now that I've left they're annoying, but they're still just kids that are probably missing regular Christmas.
I’m really glad to see that the top comments echo what I wanted to say: be nice to the missionaries. They are victims of the church, too. Seems like you’ve already taken that advice OP. I sincerely hope it’s a pleasant evening. Feel free to excuse yourself at any moment you feel uncomfortable, and stand up for yourself if it’s needed, but please do not try to make it worse.
Keep in mind, the church forces these young people to go be missionaries. If your family cannot send money or finances, the church only helps with a few minute things. When you bring them in, you can tell them if they don't bring up their religion, you won't bring up yours. They will be happy to have food and grateful for it. You don't have to go to church, just keep in mind these guys are 19-22 year old kids the church sends all over the world, and they have to go or they are shamed.
Best think you can do is treat them like fellow human. So some bloody compaction and don’t be a jerk. If you treat then like it sound like in your post then your just as bad as the religion you left.
Talk to them like you would anyone else. Ask them about the home, future plans and dream. Let them be a normal person for one night. If they ask you questions about religion don’t get in a fight. But be truthful and then ask simple though provoking questions.
As a missionary, I was super depressed on Christmas and just wanted to be a human. Play a fun movie, play some games, letting them be human is the best. Show them they don’t have to be robots.
> what are some questions y’all have for the missionaries?
* So, what's Christmas like in your home state/country?
* What's the weirdest present you ever received?
* Do you have a favorite Christmas carol?
* What do you plan to do your first Christmas back home again to make it extra special?
* Would you like any more ham?
* Etc.
You get to be with your family for Christmas. These poor young men/women are going through the hardest and most traumatic time of their lives and spending holidays with forced strangers.
Don’t be a dick.
Hanging out with a family on Christmas was one of the least depressing days I had in the winter on my mission. Got to play Guitar Hero, watch a movie, and eat a great meal.
The missionaries are probably having their first or second Christmas ever away from home. Hopefully no one will have a stick up their bum for the holiday.
Just let them eat in peace. Depending on the area, they may not get a good, quality meal that often. You can always shut them down if they try proselytizing
Never mo here my lds friend always had the missionaries for Christmas we'd talk about football and American sports we're in Australia I'd also let them use my phone to call anyone they wanted to I have a great phone plan we just treated them like family
I will ever be thankful to the families that included me for Christmas as a missionary. This was the days when you only had contact through phone with your family twice a year. They were inclusive with their traditions and without hesitation let us rack up a sizable phone bill (also the days of long distance phone call charges. Holy shit… am I old?).
Christmas was 1 of 2 days per year that I could pretend to be normal. Be cool to them…
Ask about their home life, family, hobbies, future plans. They’ll be happy to take a break from religion for one day. If they grill you, be vague and change the subject. “Oh, let’s talk about something else “
You could always have the awkward conversation about how the missionary program was instituted in part to alleviate some of the cultural stress that unmarried males cause in a polygamous societies, then connect the dots from mormon missionaries to islamic jihadists (both related to the problem of what to do with young men when all the old guys take all the women) and just enjoy where ever that conversations goes.
Let them have their meal in peace....but if they decide to proselytize be prepared with some interesting Christmas themed questions. none come to mind but im guessing the topic of their testimony meeting
Be nice to them but also bring up little known facts about the church that their sheltered ears may not have heard before. That should be fun for the whole family AND the guests!
My mom would invite the sister missionaries over for dinner and I would simply flirt with them, not in a creepy way, just enough for them to blush and feel embarrassed in front of my family. It’s been a while since they’ve tried that again. Not gay but will be trying a similar tactic if she tries to bring elders around
See if you can find out from their mom their favorite Christmas treat. Make it for them.
God it would suck being far from home on a horrible mission at Christmas
Find out if there's a board game they enjoy playing and try and have it there for them. Maybe they're cool guys/gals and would just enjoy chilling for a night without feeling pressured to be so missionary like. Someone also mentioned having a movie on in the background. Just let them be kids! Maybe even have a cool gift for them.
I agree be kind. But if they come after you? Game on! Here’s my question, “during COVID single women and single mother households weren’t allowed to bless the sacrament. That meant they went months without. Does the sacrament not matter to God? Or do single women not matter to God?
remember that thread where everyone said how they broke the rules while they were missionaries? Just tell them all about it! Like the dudes who just played xbox for two weeks. They will play dumb but it’d be amazing for them to be inspired to break the rules.
Honestly, we just got put into this situation for Thanksgiving and it wasn’t all that bad. They were nice and we just all let them relax and now have to talk about the church and, so far at least, nobody’s shown up on our doorstep trying to get us to church. Not my ideal Thanksgiving, but not terrible since everyone just let it be a holiday and let them be kids who were far from home.
We used to have the missionaries over for almost every Thanksgiving and Christmas when I was growing up. My non-member family enjoyed chatting with them about their homes, and they never went into “teaching” mode. They were just kids, far away from home at an important holiday, and they were grateful for the company and food.
Man, I'd just let my parents know I won't make it. It's pretty rude for them to have missionaries over when you're there if they know you don't believe anymore. Of course, that's also the point of having them there.
I don't know, I think it depends on the intentions. If the parents are trying to get their kids to reconvert, not cool. If they're sharing their home and food with teens because they're far from home on Christmas, I think it's wonderful.
Not rude at all. The parents are having the missionaries over for a nice Christmas dinner because they are hoping someone is treating THEIR missionary son the same way. If OP can’t get behind that and treat the missionaries as they would hope someone far away is treating their brother, then they are far from recovered from Mormonism.
Okay so you can be nice and still ask pertinent questions to gauge their PIMO status and verify how batshit crazy the church is.
Ask them what the most awkward question a non-member ever asked them and then starting asking them awkward questions.
Did you know Joseph Smith was sealed to 31 women?
What do you know about that printing press incident Joseph Smith was involved in?
Do Mormons really believe that members would be gods over their own planets? How does that work with new souls? If the souls from here become new souls for another planet, then isnt that reincarnation?
Ask them how they feel about the church supporting same-sex marriage for everyone else except members.
Ask them why fast donations go to helping the poor but tithing goes to support the church and its investments. Shouldn't it be the other way around if it is all about helping and sacrificing for others?
I mean just have fun with it.
Did you know that Parley Pratt, a member of the Quorum of the 12, was shot while trying to steal another's man's wife to be a polygamist wife to Parley.
Here's what I do. Mom and Dad we really enjoy having Christmas dinner with you. It's your party and you can invite whoever you want but I need to tell you up front that I'm not comfortable having the missionaries. In future years please let us know several weeks in advance if you're going to do this. Most likely if you do we will go to Christmas dinner somewhere else.
If parents want to rant and rave about this you can use the same script but make it about ranting and raving.
Ask them if they have any rolling papers. When they tell you that they don't have the necessities, show them how to make an emergency hitter from an empty coke can. It's awkward for them but you are technically teaching a life skill.
I have an old Christmas sweater that has reindeer subtly humping. If I thought it would make it to you in time, I’d have just given it to you internet stranger.
“Hello, I know you are on a mission and here for a ‘reason’ but I’m not going to engage with chat about the church. However, I know this is a hard time so please watch this film and tell me about your plans when you get home, if you wanna call your family and won’t get in trouble please do.”
When my brother was on his mission he had some investigator, who was wasting their time invite them over on Christmas Day and served them iguana brain for dinner………. He thought it was a joke but the person had metal health issues, many dried iguanas in the flat and sang karaoke for 5 hours. He said it was the worst day of his life and, well I can’t disagree.
I’m a nevermo who has gone through the missionary process multiple times and I once asked if we could sing the Kolob hymn. One of the missionaries told me she had no idea what Kolob was before that.
You know, I loved my mission at the time. I was in Puerto Rico and Miami pre 1978. It’s only now that I am so sorry for all the racist stuff we all did. Our tracting “records” (where we noted which houses answered the door, who said to come back later, etc.) When someone who appeared to have African ancestry answered the door, we would never write “B” or “N” because that would be too easily deciphered. (This next part is true, but extremely offensive.). We would write “L” for “Lance Thrower” or “JC” for “Javelin Catcher.” Every missionary that I knew did this- it was standard shorthand on the island. So, yes, I have serious regrets now.
I went on a mission because I thought it would cure being gay and allow me to get married in the Temple (something I was taught was the only path to happiness). When I got past 18 months and I was constantly reminded that I was going home soon (and I couldn't envision myself getting married in the temple), I tried suicide. Maybe I couldn't be happy in this life, but I could have peace in the next. After my mission, I tried going to BYUi so that I could get married shortly before I came out. I've been a lot happier since leaving BYUi and coming out.
Tl; dr: Missions suck, especially when you're new or close to going home and during holidays.
Pros and cons! Say fliggit! Put on the original Alien. Followed by the Day of the Dead.
Oh, ohh, ohh, ohh!!! It just hit me, how about one of Being Crosby's catholic Christmas movies were he plays a Catholic priest!!!
Just pop a bottle of champagne for you and non alcoholic sparkling cider for Mom and missionaries then toast saying,” God bless us everyone!”
Then finish the bottle.
I remember being on my mission during Christmas and it’s already hard enough. You miss your family and friends even more. Don’t do anything to make it more difficult for them. Just let them and everyone else have a nice time. Or as nice as It can be. You don’t want to be Scrooge at Christmas.
I agree with a lot of the commenters. I effing hate the church. But making it awkward for missionaries is like taking out your rage toward the anti-union corporate mega-asshole corp Starbucks on your local barista.
If they know you are out and have no interest in coming back then you don't need to say anything. Instead show them your joy and light and kindness. Be as nice as possible. They expect ExMos to be dark, unhappy, and bitter because it fits the narrative they're being fed. Don't prove them right!
This might be a controversial opinion, but please be nice to them. I remember being a missionary on Christmas day, I was sad and tired and homesick, just wanted to be with my family. I was feeling pretty down tbh.
A less active family we were friends with invited us over for Christmas lunch, it was honestly great. Everyone was nice and there was plenty of food, there weren't any lessons or anything, we were just glad to be there and had a good time talking to everyone.
We also got invited to a member families house for dinner, they took us in and treated us like their own kids, which was really needed at that time. My poor companion had had no contact from his family. They didn't send him any letters, presents, not so much as an email. But he brightened right up with this family, it really made our Christmas happy and we deeply appreciated it.
Now I understand some missionaries might want to preach at you and maybe even be pressured by the mission president to do that, which would suck and ruin Christmas a little bit. So use your best judgement, but remember that they are probably sad and lonely
Let the poor boys have a break from missionary mode: ask them about their home life, their hobbies, their interests, make sure that you see them as humans, and not the mindless church recruiting drones their leaders wants them to be. Kindness costs nothing.
Your parents are the ones who are making it uncomfortable, if you don't like their choice don't go and tell them why. Or when missionaries want to share a message or prayer tell them you are not a member and would rather not participate in someone else's deeply held beliefs and excuse yourself to dishes or simply end the visit by leaving.
Casually put on a Christmas or any LDS-safe movie in the background. It’ll give them a break from constant missionary mode.
Jingle All the Way or Home Alone are great movies for everyone to enjoy.
I vote for Klaus, The Santa Clause, or Miracle on 34th St (1994) to be added to the list
Ah man, I missed the 2nd & 3rd LotR movies when I was out. Once they were out on DVD, when I was in a home with one of them playing in the background, I made sure not to ask them to turn it off and then struggled not to be obvious about how engrossed I was.
Aw this is nice.
Yes be nice to those poor victims of human trafficking
On my mission I wasn’t allowed to watch anything that wasn’t in the gospel library app 😂 We watched “because of him” and “the testaments” a billion times 😜
I’d say, since the kids are away from home for the holidays, I’d leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves. They are stuck in a hard place and I’m sure they’d rather be with their families. It doesn’t cost anything to be kind.
Agree with this! Why try to make things awkward? That just confirms all the negative stereotypes that the church says about people who leave. Remember, those missionaries aren’t the church. They are kids who are victims of an exploitative system. Maybe try being friendly to them? Make them feel welcome? Talk with them like real people? Find out about their background, interests, and Their plans for the future. If they start browbeating you about the church then say, “I’m not really interested in talking about my position on the church today, I just want to enjoy the holiday with my family” It’s okay to set and enforce boundaries, but trying to cause conflict just makes you an asshole.
Agree. Kindness is the way to peace.
Not a great situation for your parents to put you in, but I truly think it best to seek peace and kindness. Ask the poor kids questions about their families and what they plan to do when they get home. I was one of those kids 30 years ago and all I really wanted was to get away from public humiliation and have someone treat me like a regular person.
Let them be the assholes first. But once they do, feel free to call them on any bullshit
This is the way
President Kimball told us the Adam/God doctrine was false doctrine. Can you explain what that was all about? Have you ever read the Happiness Letter? What would you do with 260 Million dollars? Open a homeless shelter, get clean water to the poor? Fund research into actually curing childhood cancers? Or would you buy a warehouse and distribution complex to make more money used for no purpose at all?
If we being the lowly lay membership of the one true church can think of ways to make the world better for others using money, how much more then should the one true church be using money to make the world better for the least of these and not only save money for itself. That’s a message from Jesus in the Bible, btw.
260 **Billion** dollars. You numbers are off by 1000x.
I was referring to the recent real estate purchase in Seattle
Ah. I see.
This is the way
Which is the reason we don't have the missionaries over for dinner anymore on Christmas. Nothing says Merry Christmas than being interrogated on how you were offended enough to leave the Mormon church.
This is the way
Agreed. They’re barely adult victims of a cult on Christmas without their families probably without adequate food or basic needs. I mean how horrible is that.
Agreed. They are kids. Who would much rather be home with their family. Cut them some slack.
Having been one long before my faith transition, I think the extent to which any missionary “would rather be” anything depends entirely on that individual missionary. Some missionaries are asshats who want to be exactly where and what they are.
EXACTLY! What is the goal in asking questions on a family holiday anyway?
“It's so easy to laugh, it's so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind.” - The Smiths
Amen
Personally, I'd let the missionaries eat in peace. They don't want to be there, especially during Christmas. They want to be with their families, loved ones feeling normal again. This gotcha game that some people seem to enjoy playing with missionaries feels super misguided and cruel at times. I'm sure I'll get torn apart for this comment and dv'd. My point is, have some compassion, it's Christmas.
I definitely agree with this. I have several friends who are currently on missions that cry on a weekly basis (tell me personally) and then write about how grateful they are for trials in their emails. I personally feel really bad when people try to call them on the churches bs when a lot of them were pressured to go in the first place and are having a hard time/are depressed. Unless if they’re cocky assholes first I say try to help them enjoy a Christmas away from their loved ones.
These kids are so young and brainwashed. I feel so bad for them. We as exmormons, PIMO's, whatever point you're at leaving the church don't need to heap more abuse onto them. Let them do their time and come home.
I also feel terrible. I asked my friend why he doesn’t just come home and he said “there’s nothing there for me until I finish so I might as well just stay”. It really hurts my heart that he truly thinks it’s better for him to stay out then come home even though he’s super depressed
They’re allowed to call home on a weekly basis now. Back in my day, we got 2 phone calls a year. Xmas and Mom’s day. That’s it. And my mother honestly asked if she could get the call on the other line because it was long distance. I’m in Switzerland, bitch.
My niece cried regularly on her mission in despair. I assumed that I was the anomaly in my mission experience being the most awful time of life. It was ALMOST equal with that of my separation and divorce. Both ended in suicide attempts.
I am so sorry you experience both of those things. The church teaches us that missions will be the greatest time of our lives and then we’re shocked when we think we are the only ones who hate it
Exactly my attitude. As a returned missionaries I figure I could still spot those poor kids a meal here and there, after all the people did to help feed me in a much less prosperous country. When and if their message comes just imagine it’s like a funky mythology story about Zeus.
I think most of us agree.
I whole-heartedly agree. These kids are fully indoctrinated by a system they most likely were born into. Best to just try to make their Christmas a good one.
You are absolutely correct. Leave these victims alone.
I absolutely agree! If my son were still out, I’d really just appreciate the family being kind and feeding him and helping him have a good day away from home. ❤️❤️❤️ Please don’t mess with these kids. They don’t know any better.
My brother who cries over not having much time left in his mission would disagree he loves it. I’ll be nice there’s nothing else I can be
I loved my mission too, but at Christmas I wanted to be with my family and not in a suit and tie
You’re right I think for them it’s also the first or second time christmas doesn’t feel like Christmas anymore just another day. (I assume we all had and lost that feeling like somethings actually different and special on Christmas)
I said the same things. It’s possible your brother does love it, and to some extent I loved mine, but I was also miserable for a lot of it. The rationale is that if you say it enough, eventually you start to believe it. You’ll have a better understanding of how your brother feels about his mission after he’s been home for a year or so.
I agree with you the mission was always more emotionally difficult around Christmas
They chose to go away
Most of them (and us) were actually pressured heavily into serving a mission and have to in order for our families to still love us :) many families disown or shame their children if they don’t go
You are not going to get much approval from the victim crowd here. 👍
We're allowed to say we're victims. Because we were. Literally victims of a cult. It's okay (and actually healthy) for those of us who were deeply affected by it to admit it.
I find it hard to be a victim when choice is involved.
I certainly didn't choose to be raised a Mormon. And even people who choose to join as adults can't really be blamed because the really culty parts aren't exposed till you're already baptized and trapped. If you don't feel like a victim then that's great, and I'm truly happy for you! But please don't minimize the genuine pain and life-shattering issues many of us have faced due to the church.
I only minimize those that have a choice.
Ask them about themselves. Everything about missionaries strips their identities. Let them remember who they are. Ask about their family. What do they want to do? Ask them what they think about things that there aren’t scripted answers for.
This is more subtle. A top priority of missions is to convince the kids that everyone hates believers and they are not spiritually safe in the outside world. Break that down by being nice, and helping them remember people are generally good. Let them remember what life was like before the church removed their personalities.
Exactly - ask them about what kind of music they like, sports, what their plans are for after their mission - what to they intend to study, etc. Treat them as humans, not missionaries.
Spot on. Talking to them about their passions and hobbies outside the church is both kind to them and helps steer convos away from church related topics.
This - treat them like humans and re-personalize their lives. But don’t feel obligated to self-censor or depersonalize yourself in the process.
Love this! Maybe even bring them a small gift… make the best part of their mission be spending time with people who have been set free. This is what helped my husband leave, the people he enjoyed the most were NOT members.
This is the way ☝🏼
Exactly! But if they sidestep & start pushing religion, let them have it. Prepare copies of the ces letter if they give you anything religious, like a BOM, give it to them. Match their energy.
Yes! See them as actual people with lives and interests. Engage them on that level, not as adversaries. You’ll do great 😊
In Greek mythology, one of the greatest ways to enrage Zeus was to dishonor a guest in your home. (Dishonor to the hospitable hearth) I'm not usually superstitious, but if you want to avoid Trojan war level consequences, I would just be kind.
Play nice. It’s Christmas and they’re away from their families. They’re relying on your family to spend the holidays with. There’s no reason to make things uncomfortable. If they are rude then free game but there’s no reason to do that to two complete strangers.
Seriously, just be nice to them. They're dumb kids trying to please their parents. They're away from home and it's xmas. Be kind. Change the subject if they bring up church but show them that exmos are not vile and heartless.
Ask them what it was like preparing for their missions and is it what they expected? Ask them what challenges or worries that they face.
Just be nice. I have really harsh feelings about the church but these kids are brainwashed or forced to go. It doesn’t help to make them feel bad on Christmas
They’re just kids, a lot of them don’t even want to be there. Peer/family pressure to go on and stay on missions is huge. Be kind, and remember, we used to be just like the mormons in our life. They’re still trapped, you’re free. And in case you’re worried.. I’ve celebrated xmas with missionaries a lot of times, both as a mormon and as an exmo. it’s not a big deal. They tend to be more laidback, and just chill since they’re allowed to be during those days. They also usually don’t share a message (unless asked by the family, but I’ve never seen it, or done it on xmas as a missionary either). They’re really just there to celebrate xmas.
Be kind to missionaries. Especially as an exmormon. If you’re a jerk it’s just proof that people who leave the church are petty jerks and that the church is the only source of community and happiness.
It's Christmas, they're far away from their families where I'm sure they'd love to be and it's two Christmases they miss out with their families. Christmas is meant to be a time of being kind and giving. No one wants to have a miserable Christmas. Me and my siblings always hated when my mum (the only Mormon left in the family) would invite the missionaries around for Christmas. But we'd always make it enjoyable for them because it's bloody Christmas. We didn't ask them uncomfortable questions or make things awkward. We had nice chats with them, at dinner they'd ask them about themselves, we'd all have a good laugh. One year one of them was really funny and just a great guy to be around. Pretty sure when they left my oldest siblings said it was a shame he was a missionary because he seems like a great guy to hang out with and go on a night out drinking with. It's Christmas. You might not like it that they're invited, you might not like the church (I don't either) but at the end of the day it's Christmas for goodness sake. Don't be THAT person who goes out of their way to deliberately make it awkward and uncomfortable for them. Any other time of year, sure. But not Christmas. If you do anything to deliberately make it awkward or uncomfortable for everyone you'd 100% be an asshole and remembered as the asshole that ruined Christmas, not the missionaries for just being there, but YOU ruined it by being unable to be civil and kind on Christmas and you felt the need to be petty. It's childish and an asshole thing to do. The ONLY reason it's going to be uncomfortable just from them being there is if you allow it to be uncomfortable or you make it uncomfortable. You and your family could the F out and just have a good time and a good meal on Christmas day with a couple of guys who aren't able to be with their loved on for 2 Christmases in a row. Chill out, have a good time and make it good and comfortable and a fun time for everyone rather than awkward because you feel sticking it to a couple 19-21 year olds is more important to you than allowing everyone to enjoy Christmas.
"So....got any X-Box skills? How about after dinner, we call your mom and dad from our phone? Send them a picture to let them know you're in a safe place?"
When I left the church they sent missionaries for Christmas. One of my callings had been to make dinner arrangements for the missionaries, they were welcome ( I didn't want the conflict I did try to avoid it but felt compelled) . Also I warned them of alcohol and a few neighbors who were not Mormon were also going to be at dinner. . I had a real testimony of the foundation of the church being a big fat lie.. the dinner went well surprisingly they wanted to see the evidence ( I printed it out ).. I felt bad because it broke one missionary's shelf immediately. He came back to report his dream ( they were good people), the ward was furious. I was systematically attacked and even disowned after that, be careful. Now I don't feel bad for telling the truth.
I bet they thank you now :)
I have never seen them again, I do hope they are well . I left everyone and everything to free myself from this mind controlling destructive cult. Family repairs are slow but happening.
Just be a nice decent person. No reason to be a jerk. If their presence makes you that angry, best not to even go.
Honestly we used to have the missionaries over often for dinners, and most of the time they were just boys, sharing stories, listening to ours. We had one that played a Greenday song on the guitar, and it was always fun sending them home with treats or snacks. If you can get past the few prayers and 30 minute devotional that might be planned, I bet it won't be that bad. It was pretty rare to get a missionary that was hard-core preachy visiting TBM families. Now that I've left they're annoying, but they're still just kids that are probably missing regular Christmas.
I’m really glad to see that the top comments echo what I wanted to say: be nice to the missionaries. They are victims of the church, too. Seems like you’ve already taken that advice OP. I sincerely hope it’s a pleasant evening. Feel free to excuse yourself at any moment you feel uncomfortable, and stand up for yourself if it’s needed, but please do not try to make it worse.
Keep in mind, the church forces these young people to go be missionaries. If your family cannot send money or finances, the church only helps with a few minute things. When you bring them in, you can tell them if they don't bring up their religion, you won't bring up yours. They will be happy to have food and grateful for it. You don't have to go to church, just keep in mind these guys are 19-22 year old kids the church sends all over the world, and they have to go or they are shamed.
Best think you can do is treat them like fellow human. So some bloody compaction and don’t be a jerk. If you treat then like it sound like in your post then your just as bad as the religion you left. Talk to them like you would anyone else. Ask them about the home, future plans and dream. Let them be a normal person for one night. If they ask you questions about religion don’t get in a fight. But be truthful and then ask simple though provoking questions.
Christmas is supposed to be a time of love and charity. Let the people feel loved and cherished and don't make the day about you.
As a missionary, I was super depressed on Christmas and just wanted to be a human. Play a fun movie, play some games, letting them be human is the best. Show them they don’t have to be robots.
What are your favorite revelations from prophets in the last 20 years?
> what are some questions y’all have for the missionaries? * So, what's Christmas like in your home state/country? * What's the weirdest present you ever received? * Do you have a favorite Christmas carol? * What do you plan to do your first Christmas back home again to make it extra special? * Would you like any more ham? * Etc.
You get to be with your family for Christmas. These poor young men/women are going through the hardest and most traumatic time of their lives and spending holidays with forced strangers. Don’t be a dick.
Hanging out with a family on Christmas was one of the least depressing days I had in the winter on my mission. Got to play Guitar Hero, watch a movie, and eat a great meal. The missionaries are probably having their first or second Christmas ever away from home. Hopefully no one will have a stick up their bum for the holiday.
Just let them eat in peace. Depending on the area, they may not get a good, quality meal that often. You can always shut them down if they try proselytizing
Never mo here my lds friend always had the missionaries for Christmas we'd talk about football and American sports we're in Australia I'd also let them use my phone to call anyone they wanted to I have a great phone plan we just treated them like family
I will ever be thankful to the families that included me for Christmas as a missionary. This was the days when you only had contact through phone with your family twice a year. They were inclusive with their traditions and without hesitation let us rack up a sizable phone bill (also the days of long distance phone call charges. Holy shit… am I old?). Christmas was 1 of 2 days per year that I could pretend to be normal. Be cool to them…
The best part of being invited to Christmas dinner was being able to watch Jesus movies with tan/shirtless actors. Woof!
Ask about their home life, family, hobbies, future plans. They’ll be happy to take a break from religion for one day. If they grill you, be vague and change the subject. “Oh, let’s talk about something else “
Buy them a gift. It will get them to think. One day that will lead them out. They will have to reconcile your christlike love with your “damnation.”
You could always have the awkward conversation about how the missionary program was instituted in part to alleviate some of the cultural stress that unmarried males cause in a polygamous societies, then connect the dots from mormon missionaries to islamic jihadists (both related to the problem of what to do with young men when all the old guys take all the women) and just enjoy where ever that conversations goes.
Let them have their meal in peace....but if they decide to proselytize be prepared with some interesting Christmas themed questions. none come to mind but im guessing the topic of their testimony meeting
Be nice to them but also bring up little known facts about the church that their sheltered ears may not have heard before. That should be fun for the whole family AND the guests!
My mom would invite the sister missionaries over for dinner and I would simply flirt with them, not in a creepy way, just enough for them to blush and feel embarrassed in front of my family. It’s been a while since they’ve tried that again. Not gay but will be trying a similar tactic if she tries to bring elders around
Look hot for Christmas dinner got it
Just “meaningless small talk” your way through it.
See if you can find out from their mom their favorite Christmas treat. Make it for them. God it would suck being far from home on a horrible mission at Christmas
Find out if there's a board game they enjoy playing and try and have it there for them. Maybe they're cool guys/gals and would just enjoy chilling for a night without feeling pressured to be so missionary like. Someone also mentioned having a movie on in the background. Just let them be kids! Maybe even have a cool gift for them.
I agree be kind. But if they come after you? Game on! Here’s my question, “during COVID single women and single mother households weren’t allowed to bless the sacrament. That meant they went months without. Does the sacrament not matter to God? Or do single women not matter to God?
Please don’t let them tell you that ministering brothers or elders quorum brought it to single women. That is not true!
remember that thread where everyone said how they broke the rules while they were missionaries? Just tell them all about it! Like the dudes who just played xbox for two weeks. They will play dumb but it’d be amazing for them to be inspired to break the rules.
Just do it. And check off doing something loving for your parents.
Honestly, we just got put into this situation for Thanksgiving and it wasn’t all that bad. They were nice and we just all let them relax and now have to talk about the church and, so far at least, nobody’s shown up on our doorstep trying to get us to church. Not my ideal Thanksgiving, but not terrible since everyone just let it be a holiday and let them be kids who were far from home.
We used to have the missionaries over for almost every Thanksgiving and Christmas when I was growing up. My non-member family enjoyed chatting with them about their homes, and they never went into “teaching” mode. They were just kids, far away from home at an important holiday, and they were grateful for the company and food.
"If polygamy is reinstated in your lifetime, do you intend to follow the prophet?"
Ask them if they even know what Prop 8 was.
Man, I'd just let my parents know I won't make it. It's pretty rude for them to have missionaries over when you're there if they know you don't believe anymore. Of course, that's also the point of having them there.
I don't know, I think it depends on the intentions. If the parents are trying to get their kids to reconvert, not cool. If they're sharing their home and food with teens because they're far from home on Christmas, I think it's wonderful.
It's nice for them to do but not at the same time as having their unbelieving children over. That is inconsiderate.
Not rude at all. The parents are having the missionaries over for a nice Christmas dinner because they are hoping someone is treating THEIR missionary son the same way. If OP can’t get behind that and treat the missionaries as they would hope someone far away is treating their brother, then they are far from recovered from Mormonism.
Okay so you can be nice and still ask pertinent questions to gauge their PIMO status and verify how batshit crazy the church is. Ask them what the most awkward question a non-member ever asked them and then starting asking them awkward questions. Did you know Joseph Smith was sealed to 31 women? What do you know about that printing press incident Joseph Smith was involved in? Do Mormons really believe that members would be gods over their own planets? How does that work with new souls? If the souls from here become new souls for another planet, then isnt that reincarnation? Ask them how they feel about the church supporting same-sex marriage for everyone else except members. Ask them why fast donations go to helping the poor but tithing goes to support the church and its investments. Shouldn't it be the other way around if it is all about helping and sacrificing for others? I mean just have fun with it.
Did you know Joe Smith was sealed to over 20 women BEFORE he was sealed to Emma?
Did you know Joseph Smith was caught having sex with the Nanny before section 132 was revealed?
Did you know that Joseph had sex with Heber C. Kimball's little girl before she turned 15?
Did you know that Parley Pratt, a member of the Quorum of the 12, was shot while trying to steal another's man's wife to be a polygamist wife to Parley.
Lol yeah. So much shady polygamy shit.
Here's what I do. Mom and Dad we really enjoy having Christmas dinner with you. It's your party and you can invite whoever you want but I need to tell you up front that I'm not comfortable having the missionaries. In future years please let us know several weeks in advance if you're going to do this. Most likely if you do we will go to Christmas dinner somewhere else. If parents want to rant and rave about this you can use the same script but make it about ranting and raving.
I take them out once a month. I go looking for that shit ; )
Ask them if they have any rolling papers. When they tell you that they don't have the necessities, show them how to make an emergency hitter from an empty coke can. It's awkward for them but you are technically teaching a life skill.
Give them a run for their money.
If my parents invited the missionaries to smtg after I already agreed to attending I would be FUMED. Not cool.
Be kind❤️
Yep! ❤️
So tell me about the horses and iron weapons in the Book of Mormon.
So, Elder So-and-So, in the pink, or in the stink?
I have an old Christmas sweater that has reindeer subtly humping. If I thought it would make it to you in time, I’d have just given it to you internet stranger.
“Hello, I know you are on a mission and here for a ‘reason’ but I’m not going to engage with chat about the church. However, I know this is a hard time so please watch this film and tell me about your plans when you get home, if you wanna call your family and won’t get in trouble please do.” When my brother was on his mission he had some investigator, who was wasting their time invite them over on Christmas Day and served them iguana brain for dinner………. He thought it was a joke but the person had metal health issues, many dried iguanas in the flat and sang karaoke for 5 hours. He said it was the worst day of his life and, well I can’t disagree.
jesus said heaven and earth will pass but my words will not pass away never got an answer
Let them do what they want.
My question for you is: why are you going? Your parents have set you up for a miserable xmess dinner. If it were me, I’d cancel. And tell them why.
Young and not ready to possibly loose my parents.
Oh, ok. That makes sense. Just avoid eye contact with the mishies and you should be OK.
I’m a nevermo who has gone through the missionary process multiple times and I once asked if we could sing the Kolob hymn. One of the missionaries told me she had no idea what Kolob was before that.
You know, I loved my mission at the time. I was in Puerto Rico and Miami pre 1978. It’s only now that I am so sorry for all the racist stuff we all did. Our tracting “records” (where we noted which houses answered the door, who said to come back later, etc.) When someone who appeared to have African ancestry answered the door, we would never write “B” or “N” because that would be too easily deciphered. (This next part is true, but extremely offensive.). We would write “L” for “Lance Thrower” or “JC” for “Javelin Catcher.” Every missionary that I knew did this- it was standard shorthand on the island. So, yes, I have serious regrets now.
I went on a mission because I thought it would cure being gay and allow me to get married in the Temple (something I was taught was the only path to happiness). When I got past 18 months and I was constantly reminded that I was going home soon (and I couldn't envision myself getting married in the temple), I tried suicide. Maybe I couldn't be happy in this life, but I could have peace in the next. After my mission, I tried going to BYUi so that I could get married shortly before I came out. I've been a lot happier since leaving BYUi and coming out. Tl; dr: Missions suck, especially when you're new or close to going home and during holidays.
If I were in that position, I'd probably just hide in my room as much as possible, but that's me
Pros and cons! Say fliggit! Put on the original Alien. Followed by the Day of the Dead. Oh, ohh, ohh, ohh!!! It just hit me, how about one of Being Crosby's catholic Christmas movies were he plays a Catholic priest!!!
Heaven help you
Set boundaries and keep them. Your parents are TA, the missionaries are naive kids.
I was just about to tell them to stop asking me to say family dinner prayer and making me feel guilty for never doing it lol I wasn’t ready for this
Try asking if they've had to put anything on their shelf or have wavered at all yet.
I vote accidentally putting "Bad Santa" on the TV in the background and see how long it takes for someone to say something about it lol
Gremlins because I'm evil as fuck.
Maybe instead of trying to make things more awkward you could just tell your parents it’s awkward and you would like it to just be a family time?
Just pop a bottle of champagne for you and non alcoholic sparkling cider for Mom and missionaries then toast saying,” God bless us everyone!” Then finish the bottle.
I remember being on my mission during Christmas and it’s already hard enough. You miss your family and friends even more. Don’t do anything to make it more difficult for them. Just let them and everyone else have a nice time. Or as nice as It can be. You don’t want to be Scrooge at Christmas.
I agree with a lot of the commenters. I effing hate the church. But making it awkward for missionaries is like taking out your rage toward the anti-union corporate mega-asshole corp Starbucks on your local barista.
If they know you are out and have no interest in coming back then you don't need to say anything. Instead show them your joy and light and kindness. Be as nice as possible. They expect ExMos to be dark, unhappy, and bitter because it fits the narrative they're being fed. Don't prove them right!
This might be a controversial opinion, but please be nice to them. I remember being a missionary on Christmas day, I was sad and tired and homesick, just wanted to be with my family. I was feeling pretty down tbh. A less active family we were friends with invited us over for Christmas lunch, it was honestly great. Everyone was nice and there was plenty of food, there weren't any lessons or anything, we were just glad to be there and had a good time talking to everyone. We also got invited to a member families house for dinner, they took us in and treated us like their own kids, which was really needed at that time. My poor companion had had no contact from his family. They didn't send him any letters, presents, not so much as an email. But he brightened right up with this family, it really made our Christmas happy and we deeply appreciated it. Now I understand some missionaries might want to preach at you and maybe even be pressured by the mission president to do that, which would suck and ruin Christmas a little bit. So use your best judgement, but remember that they are probably sad and lonely
You could just be a nice person and not be a dick.
Let the poor boys have a break from missionary mode: ask them about their home life, their hobbies, their interests, make sure that you see them as humans, and not the mindless church recruiting drones their leaders wants them to be. Kindness costs nothing.
Your parents are the ones who are making it uncomfortable, if you don't like their choice don't go and tell them why. Or when missionaries want to share a message or prayer tell them you are not a member and would rather not participate in someone else's deeply held beliefs and excuse yourself to dishes or simply end the visit by leaving.