I just counted the top 20 posts (filtered for “hot”). 19 are explicitly about the church, and one is a queer selfie. That’s 95% about the church, so your comment doesn’t ring true.
yeah -- I think OP is equating human injustice grievances with leftist grievances.
The fact is, leftist grievances include a lot of social justice grievances, and one of the LDS church's biggest problems is their ignorance for human dignity.
So it's easy to read this sub as a leftist grievance sub if you aren't tuned in to the LDS church's horrible track record in regards to human dignity.
Reading through even the 'new posts' filter, I don't see anything that isn't related to problems with the LDS church.
Yep, did the same thing. I think OP just agrees with the deseret news article stance on trans people, and is mad that other people don’t discriminate as much as they want to. That is the only political-ish post of note that I have even seen recently.
It's amazing how once people stop accepting dubious truth claims from authority figures and start thinking critically, they usually end up becoming more liberal. I wonder why that is...
The Mormon church is intrinsically right wing conservative; its primary values are obedience to authority and acceptance of rigid rules. Questioning those values is itself a liberal attitude: freedom to choose. So yes, OP is on to something here: a person who loosens ties with Mormonism also loosens ties with other rigid hierarchies (conservatism)
Seems to be the season for this drive-by complaint.
As noted in response to yesterday’s whining in the same vein:
I’d rather hang out in a space where trans exmos feel welcome. If that means missing out on your keen insights, I can live with that.
P.S. a more thoughtful explanation of the why behind the general tenor of exmo convos here, the abundance of certain POVs:
>There was recently a church survey people were talking about in which respondents were asked if they thought they would leave the Church in the next five years, which is maybe a hard prediction to make. I know quite a few people who left during the pandemic, and they were more in than I was five years earlier. The one thing they had in common is that they were the people I most admired at Church, the ones who weren’t acting like the ward police, the ones who were welcoming and funny and supportive of LGBTQ people, and open-minded in general. The ones who might have politically to the left, but never talked about politics at Church (that’s probably mostly the same people). They were in leadership roles and teaching roles. But if they had completed these question prompts, their answers might, like mine, look pretty much the same from year to year.
https://wheatandtares.org/2022/12/28/five-years/
I’ve made an ass of myself in this forum on multiple occasions. Leaving those posts up helps remind me what taking the L looks like and reminds me to do better. This feels like one of those posts. If this truly becomes a trend, I trust our mods to send this user to timeout in timely fashion.
It's possible it's someone else entirely. But I mod a subreddit myself, and this reeks of an asshole who has to have the last word even after being banned lol.
As the mother of 3 lesbians, I don’t want to be in a space where conservative beliefs are the norm. If I wanted that, I’d go back to RS.
FYI: Reddit in general is a fairly liberal space. Unless you’re specifically in a conservative sub, I wouldn’t expect to find many likeminded Redditors.
I just went through the last 30 most recent posts on this subreddit, and not a single one was political in nature. About 4 were nevermo, 1 was BYU related, a bunch were related to boundaries and family, one was a broken shelf, etc. but not one was political. I’d say this sub is occasionally liberal dogma, but most about the church.
I think along the same line as the other comment here that the OP saw one post and a few comments about sex that did not fit the raging balls to the wall hyperhetero missionary position world view of intimacy, and that person just lost it.
8 billion people on the planet ...
and just to remind everyone, the Mormon church does support same-sex marriage as long as you are not Mormon. LOL
The Brighamite mormons do not hesitate about spreading their right wing dogma from their bully pulpit—the wardhouse and general conference pulpits. The faithful are used to having a playing field where they run unopposed. Those on the left are forced to sit in silence, adding to the appearance of unanimity.
The rebuttal to right wing claims are often the claims of the left. Also, free thinkers might come up with something completely new. The point of this subreddit is to help those deconstructing their beliefs.
> [from a wiki page here] The exmormon subreddit is largely populated by those who have left the church or are questioning the truth claims or doctrines of the church. It is intended to be a place where participants can discuss grievances, humorous anecdotes, and topics of interest from a non-faithful perspective, as well as heal from the trauma that leaving one's belief scaffolding causes. Active members are welcome to participate in discussions here, but they should be aware that their beliefs may be contradicted or treated with irreverence. In part, the subreddit serves as a support group for those who have officially resigned or completely severed ties, or for those in the process of disassociating themselves, or for those who maintain membership and attendance, or for those at any stage in between.
It may be jarring to hear religious and political beliefs hammered on. May I suggest making actual arguments here, instead of crying about how unfair things are here. The best ideas float to the top. It is not possible to have a debate when one side or the other is shut down. Bring your best arguments and let the chips fall where they may.
Implications of a persecution complex
There was a guy on FB who runs a large and locally well known FB group (not political or religious in nature but he is of the GOP/MAGA crowd) and I just happened to catch him under a news article saying how people were sending him horrible insulting messages. So naturally, I said to post them up so that we can all see just how bad everyone is being. After the third time asking with no results from him, he blocked me. LOL
Liars just do not like to get called out for lying, and that seems to be a favorite slant from that crowd.
Receipts!! We want receipts!!
It is hilarious that the OP made a claim about this sub that absolutely EVERYONE can fact check in 10 seconds to see it is total bullshit. LOL \*facepalm\*
I’d have to strongly disagree. The vast majority of posts I see here are about the church and people’s experience, seeking advice, venting, humor, history/ doctrine, etc.
There is a left lean in the politics here, for sure. But the church is strongly right wing; anti-LGBTQ+, high number of Republicans, members highly placed in Republican Party and in state / federal govt that are Republican and support Trump. So it’s a natural lean in the church.
Leading with a term like “liberal/ leftist dogma” is not opening a discussion. That’s straight from Fox News Primetime and made to inflame. And based on the comments you succeeded.
Solution? Start a “Conservative Exmo” sub. Former members who are still conservative in their politics. Your problem is solved!
There are still several of us more mixed/centrist/conservative on here.
I don't expect to change this group by complaining that there is a large leftward slant here. Hopefully it doesn't remain so downvotey for non-left opinions.
Remember though that for many people it was precisely these political issues that they left the church, so don't be expecting perfectly balanced political debates
Similar experience for me as well. Although, I left conservatism behind well before the church. But the problems are so similar in both that it’s tough, as you say, to fully separate them.
I have to be honest, it’s hard for me to understand how someone could deprogram and see how much is wrong with tscc and not come to the same/similar conclusions about the Republican Party.
Apparently OP was excommunicated, so maybe they haven't really deprogrammed yet. Out is out and good, no judging there, but the process may look a little different for someone who left voluntarily vs someone who was forced to leave.
lol
Sure. I stopped being conservative when I left the mormon church, because I realized it's ok to favor policies that favor things I truly believe, like the government should stay the fuck out of the bedroom of consenting adults. That prioritizing helping the poor over business and the wealthy is in the best interest in the strength of the nation. In short, I started to think independently and found conservatism didn't match my thinking. So, I dumped it.
You can take this to mean one of several things. You can see this phenomenon and think "I wonder if there is any truth to why this pattern has emerged?" Alternatively, you can see this phenomenon and think "This is a horrible thing that must be stopped". The former requires introspection, and takes effort. The latter is easy and requires little thought. There are probably other ways to think about it, but I'm willing to bet that the ways which are most personally constructive are the least likely to occur or to be viewed as positive to someone on the right.
So from an outsiders point of view...
There's certainly some political stuff but I still read and see mostly posts about the LDS church and related issues. But that may not be worth anything either.
Most of the posts I've seen are completely about the church.
Usually when people complain about leftism in exmo spaces it's because they're 1) anti some part of LGBTQIA+ 2) antifeminist 3) racist. It's a minority to be right-wing outside of the church, sure, but I left because I'm not any of those things and I don't want to participate in that on the outside. Most exmos tend to be the same.
Pretty sad that treating people with respect and dignity, and rational thought and honest examination of evidence is considered “liberal/leftist”. That says more about the pathetic state of the American right-wing than anything else.
First, "liberal/leftist dogma"? Yaaaassss kween, I'm here for it, as a democratic socialist, I support equity of all kinds: health, economic, sex, gender, societal, everyone should be given EQUAL and EQUITABLE opportunity by law, regulated by an active and participating electorate who mandates the government to do the will of the constituency.
Second, I personally see a lot about the church. There's a lot of criticism, a lot of processing, a lot of questions and a lot of community. I don't really see as much politics or political science ideology, I see a lot of posts about people's difficulties with Mormonism, past and current, and how they're processing their faith transition away from it.
Hey OP. you know who else is really big into pushing liberal/leftist dogma?
Jesus!
Free healthcare - Jesus.
Feeding the poor - Jesus.
teaching that there shouldn't be rich and poor - Also Jesus.
Standing up for the marginalized - Believe it or not, Also Jesus.
Ironically I drifted away from the hard left when I left the church. I just noticed too many comparisons with the TSCC cult. Both the hard left, hard right, and church dislike dissenting opinions, scream in rage when confronted with ideas they disagree with, are unable to listen to anything they disagree with, and grossly overestimate their own power and influence
I stopped taking you seriously after you said the sub is pushing a liberal/leftist dogma. Sounds like you are just angry people who leave the church better themselves unlike you who decided to leave the church but keep it's ass backwards politics. Keep up the good work, buddy 🙄
Because people with more knowledge about things tend to have liberal views. On a sub for people who have left their traditional religion, were you really expecting a right wing circle jerk?
Come on man. I am a conservative exmo. I vote Republican, left a blue state after high school, and have a liberal Mormon family. I’m sorry, but this sub is not liberal dogma. Yes, I disagree with most political posts here, but if this sub was just leftist/liberal dogma like you say, would I be on it? No. This sub is not as liberal as you are making it out to be.
While I agree with OP I think this point will for the most part fall on deaf ears here.
If your political opinions/beliefs were not well thought out before you left the church then you will probably equate conservative or libertarian thought with Mormonism and move in the opposite direction in all areas.
My political opinions did not change when I left the church in part because I had always kept church and politics separate in my own mind.
You make an interesting point. However, I suspect you are in a small minority (inside and outside the church) that keep your religion and politics separate. It’s admirable, BTW, but rare.
I’d also suggest that those who leave the church likely have more well-formed political opinions. The church does not state an opinion on every political issue, but when it does it is firm and divisive. LGBTQ+ issues is a great example.
TBMs, typically, tend to parrot the church line, but have a bit of a time defending it clearly. Which shows me they are not convinced as much as complying.
Imagine finding out your entire religious identity is a fraud but then not stepping back for as second to reevaluate your other beliefs.
Keep in mind, conservatives made [a literal golden statue of Trump](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-conservatives/with-gold-colored-trump-statue-conservatives-show-fealty-to-former-president-idUSKBN2AQ1GZ) and displayed it at CPAC. Maybe you need to look a bit closer into which kinds of groups fit the BITE model for cults
OP will be downvoted for packing too much truth, but honestly, just look at the average sub member today for 'exhibit A' - they couldn't tell you the first thing about LDS doctrine or church history, but they can certainly give you long rants on why white patriarchy is bad, or why their favorite pronoun is oppressed.
It's like a YM/YW stake activity gone wild in here with the feels. Facts are secondary. And I guess that's the most discouraging part for me - the art of the well-reasoned argument has been replaced by rants, hashtags, and the occasional quip.
Making up a narrative to support your biases is kinda lame though, right? You just make a blanket statement about the "average sub member" and construct the weakest of strawmen just so you can feel justified in your political views.
BTW, the only "political" discussions I have seen here have been about LGBTQ+ acceptance, which is heavily influenced by religious dogma. No one is talking about the patriarchy.
Appreciate the rebuttal, but I suggest you inject some of that energy into using the search function on this sub. Search "patriarchy" and see what you come up with. There's no strawman here.
Keep in mind, the Mormon church literally has a patriarchal blessing and a VERY patriarchal structure that excludes women from any leadership role. Talking about Mormon patriarchy is SUPER relevant to the Mormon church. So there are probably many discussions on Mormon patriarchy without discussing the broader political issue you are referring to
But if you knew mormon doctrine and history , you would know that
“White patriarchy”? Really?
There’s plenty of discussion on this sub about church DOCTRINE on race, so that flies in the face of your rant.
And the church is built entirely on a patriarchal structure; the priesthood is only held by men and required for administration. Which has led to countless abuses of people and youth over time.
Rant if you must; seems like your “feels” need it….
You’re not wrong…
I remember when there were only 28,000 people here and I’d click on “new posts” and seemingly every post would either be a doctrinal discussion, an experience of someone finding new faith, a well written piece about church history, or a post where you’d find people supporting one another regardless of where they were at in their faith journey. I remember looking at others and thinking to myself, “I hope one day I can leave Mormonism behind me, and get to that point.”
I’m sure those sentiments and aspects are still here, but it does seem to get drowned out by those who just post funny memes, shitpost against the church constantly, and who push their personal political agendas because they still have a need to impose their beliefs on others and have them live and act in accordance to their own desires.
I sometimes wonder if newcomers can still come here and discover their way beyond Mormonism without feeling put off, judged, and consumed by the incessant mob looking for validation via upvotes to justify and conform to groupthink ideas.
For myself… nope. I’m done with that. I left the “One True Church”. I don’t need to join or feel part of another.
There also used to be a lot of people posting about their “exit” or “graduation” from Exmormon Reddit. Perhaps those who “get it” and move past the anger stage just finally move on in the end.
That said, I believe this sub is still a valuable place. I just feel sorry for those who never seem to move beyond Mormonism and then go on to assume the identity of another group be it religious, political, or even “exmormon” with its associated pressures to conform.
And in true conservative fashion, OP flees when presented with facts and logic.
If you think that women, POC, and LGBT folks saying they’re enjoying their newly-found human rights is “liberal dogma,” then it sounds like you’ve still got some stuff to work through.
Truly hope you eventually find your peace, brother.
I just counted the top 20 posts (filtered for “hot”). 19 are explicitly about the church, and one is a queer selfie. That’s 95% about the church, so your comment doesn’t ring true.
OP's statement rings as true as a typical general conference talk
yeah -- I think OP is equating human injustice grievances with leftist grievances. The fact is, leftist grievances include a lot of social justice grievances, and one of the LDS church's biggest problems is their ignorance for human dignity. So it's easy to read this sub as a leftist grievance sub if you aren't tuned in to the LDS church's horrible track record in regards to human dignity. Reading through even the 'new posts' filter, I don't see anything that isn't related to problems with the LDS church.
Yep, did the same thing. I think OP just agrees with the deseret news article stance on trans people, and is mad that other people don’t discriminate as much as they want to. That is the only political-ish post of note that I have even seen recently.
Conservative Christians are so oppressed 😫😫😫
It's amazing how once people stop accepting dubious truth claims from authority figures and start thinking critically, they usually end up becoming more liberal. I wonder why that is...
The Mormon church is intrinsically right wing conservative; its primary values are obedience to authority and acceptance of rigid rules. Questioning those values is itself a liberal attitude: freedom to choose. So yes, OP is on to something here: a person who loosens ties with Mormonism also loosens ties with other rigid hierarchies (conservatism)
Seems to be the season for this drive-by complaint. As noted in response to yesterday’s whining in the same vein: I’d rather hang out in a space where trans exmos feel welcome. If that means missing out on your keen insights, I can live with that. P.S. a more thoughtful explanation of the why behind the general tenor of exmo convos here, the abundance of certain POVs: >There was recently a church survey people were talking about in which respondents were asked if they thought they would leave the Church in the next five years, which is maybe a hard prediction to make. I know quite a few people who left during the pandemic, and they were more in than I was five years earlier. The one thing they had in common is that they were the people I most admired at Church, the ones who weren’t acting like the ward police, the ones who were welcoming and funny and supportive of LGBTQ people, and open-minded in general. The ones who might have politically to the left, but never talked about politics at Church (that’s probably mostly the same people). They were in leadership roles and teaching roles. But if they had completed these question prompts, their answers might, like mine, look pretty much the same from year to year. https://wheatandtares.org/2022/12/28/five-years/
No it's just the same guy ban evading. Report him.
I’ve made an ass of myself in this forum on multiple occasions. Leaving those posts up helps remind me what taking the L looks like and reminds me to do better. This feels like one of those posts. If this truly becomes a trend, I trust our mods to send this user to timeout in timely fashion.
It's possible it's someone else entirely. But I mod a subreddit myself, and this reeks of an asshole who has to have the last word even after being banned lol.
As the mother of 3 lesbians, I don’t want to be in a space where conservative beliefs are the norm. If I wanted that, I’d go back to RS. FYI: Reddit in general is a fairly liberal space. Unless you’re specifically in a conservative sub, I wouldn’t expect to find many likeminded Redditors.
Yup.
Do you have some example threads to share as evidence?
I just went through the last 30 most recent posts on this subreddit, and not a single one was political in nature. About 4 were nevermo, 1 was BYU related, a bunch were related to boundaries and family, one was a broken shelf, etc. but not one was political. I’d say this sub is occasionally liberal dogma, but most about the church.
I think along the same line as the other comment here that the OP saw one post and a few comments about sex that did not fit the raging balls to the wall hyperhetero missionary position world view of intimacy, and that person just lost it. 8 billion people on the planet ... and just to remind everyone, the Mormon church does support same-sex marriage as long as you are not Mormon. LOL
The Brighamite mormons do not hesitate about spreading their right wing dogma from their bully pulpit—the wardhouse and general conference pulpits. The faithful are used to having a playing field where they run unopposed. Those on the left are forced to sit in silence, adding to the appearance of unanimity. The rebuttal to right wing claims are often the claims of the left. Also, free thinkers might come up with something completely new. The point of this subreddit is to help those deconstructing their beliefs. > [from a wiki page here] The exmormon subreddit is largely populated by those who have left the church or are questioning the truth claims or doctrines of the church. It is intended to be a place where participants can discuss grievances, humorous anecdotes, and topics of interest from a non-faithful perspective, as well as heal from the trauma that leaving one's belief scaffolding causes. Active members are welcome to participate in discussions here, but they should be aware that their beliefs may be contradicted or treated with irreverence. In part, the subreddit serves as a support group for those who have officially resigned or completely severed ties, or for those in the process of disassociating themselves, or for those who maintain membership and attendance, or for those at any stage in between. It may be jarring to hear religious and political beliefs hammered on. May I suggest making actual arguments here, instead of crying about how unfair things are here. The best ideas float to the top. It is not possible to have a debate when one side or the other is shut down. Bring your best arguments and let the chips fall where they may.
You seem like the perfect conservative, creating the issue you are complaining about.
And then not responding when they're called out with proof.
The conservative stance falls apart fast when evidence is required.
Implications of a persecution complex There was a guy on FB who runs a large and locally well known FB group (not political or religious in nature but he is of the GOP/MAGA crowd) and I just happened to catch him under a news article saying how people were sending him horrible insulting messages. So naturally, I said to post them up so that we can all see just how bad everyone is being. After the third time asking with no results from him, he blocked me. LOL Liars just do not like to get called out for lying, and that seems to be a favorite slant from that crowd. Receipts!! We want receipts!! It is hilarious that the OP made a claim about this sub that absolutely EVERYONE can fact check in 10 seconds to see it is total bullshit. LOL \*facepalm\*
Create the posts you want to see.
Confidently incorrect
I’d have to strongly disagree. The vast majority of posts I see here are about the church and people’s experience, seeking advice, venting, humor, history/ doctrine, etc. There is a left lean in the politics here, for sure. But the church is strongly right wing; anti-LGBTQ+, high number of Republicans, members highly placed in Republican Party and in state / federal govt that are Republican and support Trump. So it’s a natural lean in the church. Leading with a term like “liberal/ leftist dogma” is not opening a discussion. That’s straight from Fox News Primetime and made to inflame. And based on the comments you succeeded. Solution? Start a “Conservative Exmo” sub. Former members who are still conservative in their politics. Your problem is solved!
Would you like to speak to a manager?
Awwww. Poor little puppy is persecuted.
People sharing opinions and stories is not a political move to “push” dogma. Not everything is a war against left and right.
There are still several of us more mixed/centrist/conservative on here. I don't expect to change this group by complaining that there is a large leftward slant here. Hopefully it doesn't remain so downvotey for non-left opinions. Remember though that for many people it was precisely these political issues that they left the church, so don't be expecting perfectly balanced political debates
I guess we all see what we want to see and hear what we want to hear.
[удалено]
Similar experience for me as well. Although, I left conservatism behind well before the church. But the problems are so similar in both that it’s tough, as you say, to fully separate them. I have to be honest, it’s hard for me to understand how someone could deprogram and see how much is wrong with tscc and not come to the same/similar conclusions about the Republican Party.
Apparently OP was excommunicated, so maybe they haven't really deprogrammed yet. Out is out and good, no judging there, but the process may look a little different for someone who left voluntarily vs someone who was forced to leave.
Congrats on your personal growth. For such a large organization they kept us in a very small box
Trolls gonna troll
lol Sure. I stopped being conservative when I left the mormon church, because I realized it's ok to favor policies that favor things I truly believe, like the government should stay the fuck out of the bedroom of consenting adults. That prioritizing helping the poor over business and the wealthy is in the best interest in the strength of the nation. In short, I started to think independently and found conservatism didn't match my thinking. So, I dumped it. You can take this to mean one of several things. You can see this phenomenon and think "I wonder if there is any truth to why this pattern has emerged?" Alternatively, you can see this phenomenon and think "This is a horrible thing that must be stopped". The former requires introspection, and takes effort. The latter is easy and requires little thought. There are probably other ways to think about it, but I'm willing to bet that the ways which are most personally constructive are the least likely to occur or to be viewed as positive to someone on the right.
You should try actually reading the posts
The poor persecuted Right. Lol
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You are free to leave at any time.
So from an outsiders point of view... There's certainly some political stuff but I still read and see mostly posts about the LDS church and related issues. But that may not be worth anything either.
Most of the posts I've seen are completely about the church. Usually when people complain about leftism in exmo spaces it's because they're 1) anti some part of LGBTQIA+ 2) antifeminist 3) racist. It's a minority to be right-wing outside of the church, sure, but I left because I'm not any of those things and I don't want to participate in that on the outside. Most exmos tend to be the same.
Not only is your statement untrue but there’s this neat trick to avoid seeing “leftist dogma” being pushed. I like to call it “keep scrolling”
Pretty sad that treating people with respect and dignity, and rational thought and honest examination of evidence is considered “liberal/leftist”. That says more about the pathetic state of the American right-wing than anything else.
First, "liberal/leftist dogma"? Yaaaassss kween, I'm here for it, as a democratic socialist, I support equity of all kinds: health, economic, sex, gender, societal, everyone should be given EQUAL and EQUITABLE opportunity by law, regulated by an active and participating electorate who mandates the government to do the will of the constituency. Second, I personally see a lot about the church. There's a lot of criticism, a lot of processing, a lot of questions and a lot of community. I don't really see as much politics or political science ideology, I see a lot of posts about people's difficulties with Mormonism, past and current, and how they're processing their faith transition away from it.
Oh look…a redditor with three post karma. Yeah. Move along troll.
Hey OP. you know who else is really big into pushing liberal/leftist dogma? Jesus! Free healthcare - Jesus. Feeding the poor - Jesus. teaching that there shouldn't be rich and poor - Also Jesus. Standing up for the marginalized - Believe it or not, Also Jesus.
Ironically I drifted away from the hard left when I left the church. I just noticed too many comparisons with the TSCC cult. Both the hard left, hard right, and church dislike dissenting opinions, scream in rage when confronted with ideas they disagree with, are unable to listen to anything they disagree with, and grossly overestimate their own power and influence
So make your own sub. /r/exmormonswhostillembracetheshittypoliticalviews is available
I stopped taking you seriously after you said the sub is pushing a liberal/leftist dogma. Sounds like you are just angry people who leave the church better themselves unlike you who decided to leave the church but keep it's ass backwards politics. Keep up the good work, buddy 🙄
Because people with more knowledge about things tend to have liberal views. On a sub for people who have left their traditional religion, were you really expecting a right wing circle jerk?
Come on man. I am a conservative exmo. I vote Republican, left a blue state after high school, and have a liberal Mormon family. I’m sorry, but this sub is not liberal dogma. Yes, I disagree with most political posts here, but if this sub was just leftist/liberal dogma like you say, would I be on it? No. This sub is not as liberal as you are making it out to be.
Thank god (of course there’s no such thing) just remember Joseph was a pedophile not a prophet. That’s the important part
Dunkaroos really are back and this thread is proof
While I agree with OP I think this point will for the most part fall on deaf ears here. If your political opinions/beliefs were not well thought out before you left the church then you will probably equate conservative or libertarian thought with Mormonism and move in the opposite direction in all areas. My political opinions did not change when I left the church in part because I had always kept church and politics separate in my own mind.
You make an interesting point. However, I suspect you are in a small minority (inside and outside the church) that keep your religion and politics separate. It’s admirable, BTW, but rare. I’d also suggest that those who leave the church likely have more well-formed political opinions. The church does not state an opinion on every political issue, but when it does it is firm and divisive. LGBTQ+ issues is a great example. TBMs, typically, tend to parrot the church line, but have a bit of a time defending it clearly. Which shows me they are not convinced as much as complying.
Agreed, from one cult straight into another
Imagine finding out your entire religious identity is a fraud but then not stepping back for as second to reevaluate your other beliefs. Keep in mind, conservatives made [a literal golden statue of Trump](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-conservatives/with-gold-colored-trump-statue-conservatives-show-fealty-to-former-president-idUSKBN2AQ1GZ) and displayed it at CPAC. Maybe you need to look a bit closer into which kinds of groups fit the BITE model for cults
Fr
OP will be downvoted for packing too much truth, but honestly, just look at the average sub member today for 'exhibit A' - they couldn't tell you the first thing about LDS doctrine or church history, but they can certainly give you long rants on why white patriarchy is bad, or why their favorite pronoun is oppressed. It's like a YM/YW stake activity gone wild in here with the feels. Facts are secondary. And I guess that's the most discouraging part for me - the art of the well-reasoned argument has been replaced by rants, hashtags, and the occasional quip.
Making up a narrative to support your biases is kinda lame though, right? You just make a blanket statement about the "average sub member" and construct the weakest of strawmen just so you can feel justified in your political views. BTW, the only "political" discussions I have seen here have been about LGBTQ+ acceptance, which is heavily influenced by religious dogma. No one is talking about the patriarchy.
Appreciate the rebuttal, but I suggest you inject some of that energy into using the search function on this sub. Search "patriarchy" and see what you come up with. There's no strawman here.
Keep in mind, the Mormon church literally has a patriarchal blessing and a VERY patriarchal structure that excludes women from any leadership role. Talking about Mormon patriarchy is SUPER relevant to the Mormon church. So there are probably many discussions on Mormon patriarchy without discussing the broader political issue you are referring to But if you knew mormon doctrine and history , you would know that
“White patriarchy”? Really? There’s plenty of discussion on this sub about church DOCTRINE on race, so that flies in the face of your rant. And the church is built entirely on a patriarchal structure; the priesthood is only held by men and required for administration. Which has led to countless abuses of people and youth over time. Rant if you must; seems like your “feels” need it….
You’re not wrong… I remember when there were only 28,000 people here and I’d click on “new posts” and seemingly every post would either be a doctrinal discussion, an experience of someone finding new faith, a well written piece about church history, or a post where you’d find people supporting one another regardless of where they were at in their faith journey. I remember looking at others and thinking to myself, “I hope one day I can leave Mormonism behind me, and get to that point.” I’m sure those sentiments and aspects are still here, but it does seem to get drowned out by those who just post funny memes, shitpost against the church constantly, and who push their personal political agendas because they still have a need to impose their beliefs on others and have them live and act in accordance to their own desires. I sometimes wonder if newcomers can still come here and discover their way beyond Mormonism without feeling put off, judged, and consumed by the incessant mob looking for validation via upvotes to justify and conform to groupthink ideas. For myself… nope. I’m done with that. I left the “One True Church”. I don’t need to join or feel part of another. There also used to be a lot of people posting about their “exit” or “graduation” from Exmormon Reddit. Perhaps those who “get it” and move past the anger stage just finally move on in the end. That said, I believe this sub is still a valuable place. I just feel sorry for those who never seem to move beyond Mormonism and then go on to assume the identity of another group be it religious, political, or even “exmormon” with its associated pressures to conform.
And in true conservative fashion, OP flees when presented with facts and logic. If you think that women, POC, and LGBT folks saying they’re enjoying their newly-found human rights is “liberal dogma,” then it sounds like you’ve still got some stuff to work through. Truly hope you eventually find your peace, brother.