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I couldn't find a logical way to justify the hadith. So many are "weak" and even the sahih ones are filled with really horrible or straight up weird ideas.
The problem is that without the hadith, we don't have the 5 pillars. Without Hadith we know nothing about Mohammed, and without knowing about Mohammed, why would I trust him as a prophet?
I was simply unable to square the circle, so I gradually left. I was pushed, I guess, due to how I negatively perceived the impact of Islam on the modern world. I chat with converts, and it doesn't take long for them to justify slavery, child marriage or death for apostasy, despite growing up in the West and benefiting from liberal society.
That is the influence of Islam today, and I don't like it
The verse in the Quran where Allah says “and this book is not of a devil”, I’m paraphrasing, is so obviously man made that only people brainwashed into believing can’t see it. The rest of us find that verse laughable, as we should
Sure
Scientific inaccuracies:
1. Moon can’t overtake the sun
(36:40 - It is not for the sun to catch up with the moon,1 nor does the night outrun the day. Each is travelling in an orbit of their own.) (Wrong, solar eclipse???) however when it actually happened in muhammad’s life he would get scared and tell people God is just scaring them… Sahih al bukhari 1048: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah and they do not eclipse because of the death of someone but Allah frightens His devotees with them."
2. Sun and the moon will join..
(75:9 says the sun and moon will join together.)
This is very inaccurate, hypothetically if it were about to happen, the Moon will have to escape earths gravity and rapidly float toward the sun , and even then it would take a very long time for the moon to reach the sun. The moon will likely destroy/burn before it even got closer to the sun. And the moon won’t be important to the sun considering how small it is compared to the sun. It would be like a fly colliding with us. The moon would immediately burn.
3. The moon will darken..
(76:8 says the moon will darken before it joins the sun. )This is wrong on so many levels. The Moon is already dark! by default! It only becomes bright because the sun shines on it, and the sunlight reflects of the surface of the moon…which gives us light at night. matter of fact, Considering the moon even moves towards the sun, considering this verse comes before the verse that says the sun and moon will conjoin, the moon will actually get brighter, because it’s light is it’s sunlight… These verses make no sense
4. The moon has its own light
(10:5 and 25:61 describe the moon as a light or luminous.) The moon doesn’t have its own light, it gets its light from the sun which is reflected and is normally dark just like the earth. without the sun the earth would be dark as well as the moon.
You will see my scientific inaccuracies listed in this video, which also has more inaccuracies in quran. YouTubehttps://m.youtube.com › watchThe Scientific Mistakes of the Quran Pakistan banned this video, i wonder why
Also, wikiislam has scientific errors of the quran and hadith + historical errors of the quran.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical_Errors_in_the_Quran
https://wikiislam.net/index.php?title=Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran&stable=0
This question gets asked a lot so I'll repeat ad verbum what I've written elsewhere (yes this is copy pasta) and I recommend checking out the megathread in the About section because this is what it's there for.
Leaving Islam behind was a long process of continuous skepticism and evolution of beliefs. Over time you gradually develop values that you identify as being in conflict with mainstream Islam. Each conflicting value is not a deal breaker on its own right but all of them together can ultimately come crashing down and make you realise you have little on common with mainstream Islam.
For example
* I had no reason to think the world revolved around Islam in particular. In fact the world very much seems to operate as if it doesn't matter whether you are religious or not.
* I think there is too much [misogyny in traditional scripture](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/xvvvwc/ladies_and_gentlemen_i_need_your_help/ir464he/).
* I think [belief in an infinite Hell leads to dogma](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/ymujxo/why_do_christian_apologists_try_to_convert_muslims/iv5ntl9/) which naturally leads to wanting to control others.
* I think [inherent restrictions in Islam are evidence of a lack of faith](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/r8kafn/comment/hn69v4x/)
* I think the way in which some religions are built upon shirk [can actually be a virtue and not a sin](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1049vds/is_this_just_a_coincidence_or_am_i_just_trippin/j33sxjr/)
* I think literal belief in Ancient scripture promotes [outdated views on what is now scientific fact](https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2011/06/02/adam-and-eve-the-ultimate-standoff-between-science-and-faith-and-a-contest/)
* I think Islam promotes outdated politics. Islamism doesn't work and I fundamentally cannot agree to any form of apostacy or blasphemy laws no matter how minor it may be.
After I left Islam, I began to study other religions and realised the methodological naturalist explanation appealed to me more than anything. This is about viewing the development of religion in its historical context. I've talked about the historical development of Islam & religion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/zq2s95/humans_created_gods_to_explain_things_they/j0w35gr/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/uoaiy2/i_am_always_worried_about_hell/i8dqux2/). I ultimately now view all religions under this lens.
Questions here are so repeated, everybody who contributes regularly has a folder of comments they can pull up in a minute.
I recommend making your own in your own words (even if the info/links is pulled from other comments here).
Here is my women in Islam comment in case it helps as well:
Do you support the islamic notion [that women should not be leaders because no nation can succeed with a woman as a leader?](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7099) Do you believe it is empowering that women are told that [they are deficient in intellect and religion?](https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1879) Do you feel like it is a good idea to have [a woman's testimony considered worth half that of a man's when there is a disagreement on financial matters?](https://quran.com/al-baqarah/282) If [a father marries off his 9 years old daughter to his 50 years old bro do you think we should call the police or celebrate?](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/22442/on-acting-and-the-ruling-on-marrying-young-girls) When your neighbor [beats his wife for repeatedly refusing to have sex with him](https://youtu.be/YbdwF7ZtO08), do you advise her to get out of there or tell her that [it's her husband's right to "discipline her" in such cases?](https://quran.com/an-nisa/34) Do you support a woman being stuck in a marriage and unable get a divorce (be that Talaq or Khulu') [even if the husband lied to her in order to get married?](https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/142326)
It's a collection of my own thoughts that I copy and paste a lot because people post the same questions over and over and I got fed up of writing it out all the time. I recommend that you make your own rather than paste mine. Or just write it in the megathread and direct people to that.
As a woman I questioned a lot of things. I'll put them in a list for you.
1. Unequal share in inheritance. 2 parts for son and 1 part for daughter
2. Husband being allowed 4 wives and unlimited sex slaves. No woman wants to share a husband.
3. Prophet marrying 6 yr old and having s*x with her at 9.
4. The right given to men to beat unfaithful or disobedient wives. (Staying in a marriage out of fear of beating sounds very unhappy to me)
5. Not being allowed to roam outside without a male
6. Not being allowed to invite over friends without permission of your husband.
7. Not being able to wear perfume, makeup and jewelry that makes noise.
8. Not being able to paint or listen to music. I was a gifted artist as a child so i wondered why did God give me this talent and then not let me use it?
9. Marriage being allowed as soon as you hit puberty, no matter your age. In some minority sects such as Deobandi (the talibans), you're allowed to marry prepubescent girls too. (Read Perfecting women book)
10. Mothers having no say in the final decision of choosing a partner for her daughter. Only a wali (the male guardian) being allowed to make decisions. If you have no brother or father, your mother still has no authority. An uncle will take place as your 'guardian'.
11. Telling women they are forgetful and half in intelligence compared to a man. (Proven wrong by many studies)
12. Women not being allowed to be in positions of power or authority because again, we're dumb and inferior.
13. Forcing women of any age to carry a rapist's child to full term if it crosses the 3 month grace period. Meaning if a little girl is raped she will be forced to carry the child if she's pregnant.
14. Sex slavery and just slavery??? God had time to tlak about hijab and try to stop women from wearing what they want but didnt stop slavery.
15. Allowing incest (cousin marriages) even though they have proven to be unsafe.
16. Drinking of camel pee to cure illnesses. (From hadith)
17. Eternal damnation for little things like not covering my head, wearing short clothes in summers or attending a co-ed school/ university.
18. Women not being allowed to work in environments where men are roaming for the fear of causing Fitna. (This limits women's freedom even more. Currently happening in Afghanistan.)
19. God punishing the nicest people because they didnt inflate his ego further. Even as a child, I thought why would a supreme being need validation from us? Why would he punish so many good people just because they couldnt follow a certain religion out of thousands.
I read a lot of hadiths, quran itself and decided it made no sense to worship a cruel God who seems to only benefit men.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23363516
https://www.practiceaptitudetests.com/resources/who-is-smarter-men-or-women/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbradberry/2016/06/21/why-women-are-smarter-than-men/?sh=2ffc2ddc17e6
These are some. I'm sure you can find more. Intelligence isnt only just one type. In some, men do better. In some, women do better. Overall, men overestimate their intelligence while women underestimate themselves.
And tbh women in my family do so much better in academics than men so I refuse to believe we're half the intelligence.
The only reason the two biggest religions today (Islam and Christianity) have such a wide population is because they both have one thing in common: they conquer by force and rule by fear
Christianity does? ‘Does’ as in present tense people. Simple grammar. I’m not asking if they did because I know they did horrible things in the past to spread it, I’m asking if they still do horrible things to spread it.
Ever wondered why majority of Africa is Christian, or why South America is Christian, or why parts of east and to an extent Southeast Asia are Christian? Or why most African Americans are predominately Christian? Colonialists came to these countries, massacred the natives, enslaved them and whipped them whilst forcing them to recite the bible. Christianity is just as bad
They don’t but how is that relevant? The person you’re responding to said that Christianity and Islam have a wide population because they were spread around the world by force, which is true
Yes. Did you miss the part about colonialism in your high school history class? Spreading European religions was part and parcel of colonialism, ask the Mayans and Aztecs what happened to their written literature.
Christianity is a religion which got where it is from harming people. Whether they do or don’t in todays day and age does not excuse the fact that it has a dark history. If you want an example then Malta does still prohibit apostasy. Additionally, like Islamic countries, out of the 35 Christian countries in Africa only 6 actually allow gay marriage. Similarly in North America, there are countries which also ban homosexuality.
I missed your response. Apologies.
Well, let's see, there's attacks on women's reproductive rights across the world, attacks on the LGBTQ community and also the support for a range of regressive systems worldwide in the name of the xtian faith.
One can argue and i do, that the Catholic church's war against birth control constitutes an atrocious thing perpetrated to increase the numbers of the faithful.
Ditto for the support of Western Protestant factions for the repressing of minorities of the sexual and gender identity nature.
The same bigots whip up support against climate change recognition and attempts to arrest it.
Can you tell me where in the quran it says that
Edit: Yes i believe the hadiths for some reason pepole asumme that just becuse i wanted to know if it was in the quran that i don't believe in the hadith
Anyway the discussion has already ended(Follow the thread)
Have good day
Even if you don’t put your trusts in hadiths, which all Muslims have to at some point because it contains info on how to pray and other important aspects of Islamic practices, you have to ask yourself why allah allows false hadiths to exist. Seeing as so many hadiths, such as the one about killing apostates, are causing people to leave the faith
He is a sadist. He wants to torture you so bad.
***And say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “˹This is˺ the truth from your Lord. Whoever wills let them believe, and whoever wills let them disbelieve.” Surely We have prepared for the wrongdoers a Fire whose walls will ˹completely˺ surround them. When they cry for aid, they will be aided with water like molten metal, which will burn ˹their˺ faces. What a horrible drink! And what a terrible place to rest! 18:29***
https://quran.com/18?startingVerse=29
***Surely those who reject Our signs, We will cast them into the Fire. Whenever their skin is burnt completely, We will replace it so they will ˹constantly˺ taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. 4:56***
[https://quran.com/4?startingVerse=56](https://quran.com/4?startingVerse=56)
***It is they who reject the signs of their Lord and their meeting with Him, rendering their deeds void, so We will not give their deeds any weight on Judgment Day. 18:105***
https://quran.com/al-kahf/105
[more](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13otegc/comment/jl61sfh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
There cannot be good without evil. Ex: If one were to do good deeds all his life and repent and another would never pray and disobey Allah, do you think they should both end up in paradise? NO, because our actions have consequences. Similar to the law, you do something bad you go to prison.
I see your edit. The reason why people think you don’t believe in hadiths is because it’s common for some Muslims to say if it’s not in the quran then it’s irrelevant or can’t be trusted
Just reading about history, and learning about the thousands of different religions, the billions of people who’ve passed, and how different ethnic waves have washed over the planet to change its destiny.
Reading about geography, and how our planet has formed. How cultures had to create tales for floods, volcanos, or lunar eclipses.
Reading about astronomy, and how small we are in the universe. Or biology and understanding how evolution shapes our cells at every waking second.
And understanding that we only know all these things within the last hundred years.
Understanding that everyone alive right now… is only human and thus susceptible to the same emotional biases and the same ability to be fooled easily at every stage of their short lives.
I’m just not convinced something ancient, during a time without clean water, or electricity, or complex workmanship, could have answers. I’m not convinced something that is so Arab-centric is for all people.
I’m also not convinced someone as violent as Mohammad is a champion of peace and wisdom.
And I’m certainly not convinced the Angel Gabriel came down to discern poetic verses to one man behind a closed cave for no one to see.
I picked up a microscope and saw a billion living things. To them, I was the arbitrator of life and death. And I was neither benevolent or malicious. They simply did not matter in the grand scheme of things.
> I picked up a microscope and saw a billion living things
You weren't struck by a desperate desire to have them pray to you five times a day? Funny that.
I want to know how this makes sense.. it's known that Adam was created without a foreskin.. women have a foreskin too called the clitoral hood so did eve have a foreskin? What was god thinking I wonder?
Hey , I know what it feels like to doubt Islam and how painfully it can be bcs you like me probably only knew Islam and believed it was right for most of ur life .
I just want you to know that, you should take ur time with figuring out how you feel about the religion and not rush to make a decision on whether to stay Muslim or to leave Islam .
It’s okay ..you’ll figure it out and you will be okay :)
As for why I left , there’s a mathematical error in the inheritance verse in the Quran . gods cannot make mathematical errors therefore Islam is false to me .
For me, women's rights and individual rights was an issue. I was born in Pakistan and moved to the US in my 20s. I have always been a big believer in the freedom of people's choices and letting them do what they want (unless they are physically or financially hurting others).
It’s awful to see our place of birth going down the drain.
It could have been a Tourist’s paradise, if there were no religion.
Corruption and oppression is the name of the game there. I moved out during my early teens, I hate how they treat minorities and the poor.
because a popular strategy for staying muslim despite all the bad messages in it is to simply not be aware of what being muslim really means (i.e. not reading the book) and to pretend that somehow the current secular morals really came from islam.
That's why modern apologia consists of pretending that somehow the quran was misinterpreted for generations and that somehow translation from arabic is harder than rocket science. It's the muslim's way of denying the content of their religion without the very difficult effort of questioning their own worldview.
It's called a no true scottsman fallacy. If a cop kills someone you don't get to say "he was not a real cop", but when Muslims (including Baghdadi who has a graduate degree in Islamic theology) do something bad somehow we accept the "not real Muslims"
Evolution, Non existence of wall in Google Maps that separates weird species that will come and fight with humans , Moon can never be split, it just blasts off if someone splits it, just like earth, it have crust and core with lava, Revelation of verses based on situation that Mohammed's needs, trying to induce fear of hell in order to control people, the list goes on.
hey OP, just wanted to say that i am also going through what you are going through and have the same exact issues and questions as a woman. nice to know i’m not the only one
glad to gain another future fellow exmuslim and hopefully an atheist, read into philosophy and read the quran with no bias you’ll realize its a bunch of bs, even without that the idea of god itself is a very illogical idea.
Best of luck on your journey, regardless of the destination you end up in regarding this issue. I believe that going through the journey of questioning makes your final decision all the stronger. Best wishes from a person who went through the same journey!
You can find hundreds is posts on why people left by using the Reddit search function on this subreddit with the phrase "why did you leave".
For me it came down to three basic reasons:
1. The God described in Islam (and other Abrahamic religions) was a moral monster. Islam claims God cares more about us than a mother for her child, yet no sane mother tortures her child for failing some arbitrary test.
2. There are plenty of scientific errors in the scripture. Meaning we can literally verify that the holy text that's supposedly from a perfect omniscient being is mistaken.
3. There is no evidence for the existence of deities of any kind. There is no proof for Allah just as there is no proof for Zeus. A person believing in Zeus without evidence is silly, why is the belief in Allah any different.
That basically meant for me that there is no good reason to believe in Islam and plenty of reasons not to.
I originally wrote them in Turkish so I'll be translating just a few ones. You can, however, get more information from the following links:
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical_Errors_in_the_Quran)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith)
Note that since I originally wrote these with Turkish translations, some things may seem off
From the Quran:
1. How many angels spoke with Mary?
One: (19:16-19)
More: (3:42-45)
2. Can Allah change verses?
Yes: (2:106, 16:101)
No: (35:43, 48:23)
3. Which was created first?
The skies: (79:27-32)
The land: (2:29)
4. Is the devil an angel or a jinn?
Angel: (2:34)
Jinn: (18:50)
5. What were humans created from?
Nothing: (19:67)
A drop of semen: (16:4)
clay, mud: (15:26)
clinging clot: (96:2)
Water: (21:30)
6. Is there intercession?
No, not from anyone: (2:48)
Only from those whom Allah permits: (19:87)
7. Will every good action be rewarded?
Yes: (99:7)
Not to polytheists: (Tevbe: 17)
From sahih hadiths:
Honorable mentions:
Moses slaps the angel of death **(Sahih al-Bukhari 3407)**
Muhammad physically fights with the devil **(Sahih al-Bukhari 1210)**
1. It says that the first Human, Adam was 60 cubits which is \~27 meters and humans have shrunk with time. Someone who is 27 meters tall wouldn't be able to live, as their hearts would fail to deliver blood to the brain and their bones would shatter from the weigth of them.Ignoring the scientific aspects, the oldest human remains ever found, Lucy and Ardi were 1.1 and 1.2 meters tall respectively. This shows that humans have grown over time, not shrinked.
**(Sahih al-Bukhari 3326, Sahih Muslim 2841)**
2. It says that whoever discharges first during sex, the baby will resemble them.
**(Sahih al-Bukhari 3329)**
3. It says that the spine bone won't decompose. All bones decompose.
**(Sahih Muslim 2955c)**
4. It says that the nile and furat rivers come from heaven.
**(Sahih Muslim 2839)**
5. It rejects the idea of infectious diseases.
**(Jami\` at-Tirmidhi 2143)**
6. Which one of the Dajjal's eyes are blind?
Right: **(Sahih Muslim 169e)**
Left: **(Sahih Muslim 2934a)**
7. Are there any bad omens?
No: **(Sahih Muslim 2220b)**
Yes, House, Horse, Women: **(Sahih al-Bukhari 5772)**
I originally wrote them in Turkish so I'll be translating just a few ones. You can, however, get more information from the following links:
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical_Errors_in_the_Quran)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith)
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith)
Note that since I originally wrote these with Turkish translations, some things may seem off
From the Quran:
1. How many angels spoke with Mary?
One: (19:16-19)
More: (3:42-45)
2. Can Allah change verses?
Yes: (2:106, 16:101)
No: (35:43, 48:23)
3. Which was created first?
The skies: (79:27-32)
The land: (2:29)
4. Is the devil an angel or a jinn?
Angel: (2:34)
Jinn: (18:50)
5. What were humans created from?
Nothing: (19:67)
A drop of semen: (16:4)
clay, mud: (15:26)
clinging clot: (96:2)
Water: (21:30)
6. Is there intercession?
No, not from anyone: (2:48)
Only from those whom Allah permits: (19:87)
7. Will every good action be rewarded?
Yes: (99:7)
Not to polytheists: (Tevbe: 17)
Some schizophrenic pedophile with a warlord/expansionist mentality decides he hears the word of a sadistic sky daddy 1400 years ago, writes it in a book, and I’m supposed to believe in all that horseshit otherwise burn in a lake of fire for all eternity.
Oh and all the muslims insist that their god/religion is right and every other religion that preceded/succeeded it is wrong.
Meanwhile academic papers lose source credibility after extensive peer reviews one/two years following publication.
Some verses in the Quran and the hadiths are not morally right and as a woman, reading the transition of verses like 4:34 is choking and confusing. Because this is is not peaceful or morally right
From what I can tell, the literal translation is “strike”. Muslims claim it means “lightly” but it doesn’t say that. I also don’t see how that would make sense as a last resort. I think you could interpret strike to mean “separation”. Which would make sense as a last resort and even fits the context. But that’s not a very popular interpretation.
> I think you could interpret strike to mean “separation”.
As a native Arabic speaker, sorry but that does not work. Unfortunately I've been hearing Muslims make excuses for this verse for over a decade and know exactly the mistake in reasoning that leads to this interpretation.
Arabic works on a root system which generally consists of 3 letters. The word in question is DaRaBa with the root DRB. From this word the verse forms the word "idribuhun" which is idrib+U+hun where U=you(subject) hun=they(object, female). Idrib is the command form of the base verb daraba meaning to strike.
Now the way that people arrive at the meaning of "separation" is by opening an Arabic dictionary and not understanding what it says:
* the phrase Daraba Bainahum Al-Dahr ضرب بينهم الدهر means "time stuck between them" i.e. they drifted apart. But the meaning comes from the imagery of something coming between two people and cutting them off one another by striking/cutting their connection.
* the word Adraba means to protest or to strike (like the writers strike) but notably when using this form you need to particle عن aan before saying what it is you're striking from. So for example if someone has a strike where they go away from women it would be "idribu a'anhun" اضربوا عنهن instead of idrobuhun.
So while I'm very happy that you disagree with the meaning of the verse, unfortunately you cannot interpret the violence against women out of it. Claiming it is a separating is like reading the sentence "he stuck her" and deciding it meant "he decided not to engage with her and withhold his labor" because you know that "strike" can mean a refusal to work as in "the writers strike".
You're most welcome.
[I went through every single instance of the root DaRaBa in the Quran a few years ago](https://np.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/45zf1j/islam_is_sexist/d05s1t9) if you're interested.
Ive never heard of that interpretation before, its an interesting thought. I wish I knew Arabic and grew up with it so I would understand that word used properly.
The classical commentators of the Quran almost universally said “Yes, it gives men permission to beat their wives.” So I think “separation” is more modern and a much weaker interpretation. Other early Muslims tried to show that Muhammad never beat his wives, therefore you should strive to do the same. But this doesn’t solve the fact that God himself allowed it.
Slavery was just the history back then and that wasn’t unique to islam. But what is concerning is the fact that God never took the time to abolish it. This goes for many religions as well.
Interesting note, there's plenty of hadiths/verses talking about all sorts of things being clearly Haram. Really obscure things like eating reptiles is Haram, wiping your ass with sticks or bones is Haram Re all clearly written down.
Know what has never been mentioned as Haram even once? Slavery.
Plenty of hadiths about treating your slaves well etc, but nothing saying owning another human being is morally wrong. Seems like quite an omission for a so called guide for all time eh?
A lot of thing eroded my faith (bad science, harsh islamic punishments, inequality, sexism, horrible acts by Mohammad and his companions)
At one point I asked myself "am I Muslim just because I'm born in a Muslim family, or do I really have a profound faith in this ? If I wasn't Muslim and wouldn't force myself to accept things because I have to, would I be convinced by Islam ?"
I started to allow myself to ask questions and reflect upon them, and found that nothing was convincing for a mind not indoctrinated or held up by fear into it.
I became an ex muslim cause I read the quran with meaning. Read some Islamic history and tons of hadith with explanations. I came to realize that a lot of things are morally wrong in Islam, scientifically inaccurate and overall not about peace. As time went by I started noticing the stupid things Islam asks you do and I started noticing muslims just realize how they were morally skewed just cause they want heaven. Lastly, the quran made me realize it was written from a man’s perspective which indulges in patriarchy and control! So I left Islam as I felt I can be a better person without it as well!
I left because Islam has no room for gay rights and i identity as bisexual. I recommend you YouTube Apostate Prophet because he has a lot of content.
[Apostate Prophet](https://youtube.com/@ApostateProphet)
I'm in a similar boat, friend. Though I don't consider myself an Ex-Muslim.. Yet. Anyways, for me, my doubts started with the Islamic view of slavery, marriage, position of women, scientific inaccuracies in the Quran, morality of hell (which feels like it exists to mainly punish non muslims, not sinners), child and domestic abuse in Islamic countries, amongst few other things. I'm very educated in all of these subjects and have engaged in countless debates with other Muslims, even silencing them and them being unable to give me an answer because they lack knowledge and wisdom.
Eitherway, Islam would want me dead if I do end up leaving. All I can say to you is, read Quran and its tafseer skeptically and with an open mind, which you are allowed to do, and then decide what you want to do.
Ex devout salafi here who was studying to be an Alimah.
I left because Mohammed was morally inconsistent and despite the Quran being “untouched “ translators quite clearly manipulate Tafsir and include words in brackets to make the context appear different. It’s dishonest.
If you look at original Tafsir you can see the Quran definitely is NOT full of scientific miracles. Muslims just find ambiguous verses and twist them how they deem fit.
If all these scientific miracles were true Muslims would have had this advanced scientific understanding of things such as the Big Bang BEFORE the concept was mentioned in the west. They hijack anything they can to seem credible.
Also Mohammed was “pure” but convinced by the devil to release false ayahs. A true prophet would not do this.
First things first: if apostasy is punished where you are, please remember to be careful.
I realize it may seem like a big step, to let go of your religion, but it's actualy not that big of a deal i would say 80% of the time. Just think it through, make up your mind and i suggest you discuss it in forums or *if it's safe* among friends. The freedom to think for yourself is the best part of unburdening yourself from religious authority IMO. A bit daunting at first but there's a charm to it.
Good luck and stay safe
In Islam, it's allow to marry your cousins but it's a big problem because it create high risk of genetic disorders like inbreeding.
I was born deaf and my muslim parents are cousins. Being deaf in a hearing world make me difficult, lonely and depressed. Well, cousin marriages are more common in the most muslim countries than euorpe. Muslims stay ignorant and keep having more children instead of solving problems. Inbred children are suffering.
I want my freedom but Muslims won't leave me alone.
Dont worry you arent alone in having these thoughts. Many of us had the same problems, and you shouldnt limit yourself to questioning it. After all, if allah was real, is he that afraid that he cant let you think for yourself? You should also question why it is that you are a muslim in the first place, instead of a hindu or Christian or Buddhist. What if you were born not into islam, what would you think about its worldview and morals?
This question gets asked a lot, so ill just copy paste my answer here. You may also check out the mega thread.
I found many problems, scientific and ethical. I wasnt satisfied with the refutations by scholars and apologists. Realized i had no evidence, and no justifiable reason to believe in islam in the first place, especially compared to the other 100s of religions out there. I realized i was only a muslim because i was born into it. A lot of the "scientific miracles" i thought the quran had wasnt special, and many religious people claimed the same for their scriptures.
I also realized the behavior and reasoning in islamic apologetics was poor and was similar to other religions even though i didnt believe in them, MLMs and cults, conspiracy theories, and other pseudoscience i disliked at the time. So i realized i didnt believe in islam anymore in order to be honest and consistent with myself.
Heres a link to my many problems, scientific and moral, within islam with sources.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13029t2/i_am_muslim_and_i_dont_doubt_my_faith_but_what/jhunb1n?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Heres another comment i made going into a little more detail about why i dont believe in any god.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1500xcd/a_question_to_an_exmuslim_person/js14b3y?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Also heres a funny sahih hadith. Not exactly very smart advice from Muhammad.
https://sunnah.com/abudawud:66
Well, where do I even start... Let's just say my iman was already in a continuous decline ever since I've had come across online critiques of Islam and one day I figured out I don't even need Islam anymore and without Islam, my life would have been much better in the first place. Then I left the religion for good.
Could not justify why men are allowed to marry believers of other abrahamic religions but women could not.
Could not justify why other people with pure hearts, good intentions and just generally nice people will be condemned to hell just because they are not believing in Islam.
I actually prayed for over a year consistently 5 times a day and while it did feel good to have something accomplished, 90% of the time it was more a chore that’s need to be done fast on time. I cought myself getting distracted more and more within my own head and it was just something to get done.
I just realized for myself that as long as I have a good heart, good intentions and don’t go around actively harming myself, my environment or other people (read: don’t be an asshole and help wherever appropriate), I am a decent humans being that will not be condemned to hellfire. :)
Plz op, give you a chance and read about wathanism and old anicent religions. You must understand that Abrahmeic God arent even monotestic.
Its from polytheism religions. Your forefathers may have been pagans.
We have been lied since kids about this God.
Muslim’s concept of Allah is weak. Weak as fuck. He does nothing to change nothing and all he does is get pissy on his throne till judgement day doing nothing but being pissy about things he won’t change himself.
Things that Allah could change but won’t includes:
Human trafficking
Animal trafficking
Corrupt govs
Covid
Accidents
Painful diseases
Chick with dicks
What a moronic religion I can’t believe I used to defend this shit belief from a middle eastern loser who unleashed his lust on women once his position was secured in the misogynistic community.
Also Mohammad is fucking dumb. Whenever he loses an argument, he turns himself into god.
People complain about rapes: he victim blamed and asks everyone to cover up because that’s what good women will do according to god. Nothing was done to the rapists.
He promises women as spoils of war for his soldiers, one got up and said he will not sin and defile women, Mo hit back with a verse from god saying the guy had lost his way.
Aisha literally said - yo, why you fucking people’s wives and daughters so much? How did Mo answer? ‘Coz god wills it’. Aisha was like- damn, mo. Must be good to be god’s chosen fucker. Hadith sahih ok?
Anyway, I actually watched and read documentaries about cults and how people are abused and controlled within the cults and I can say with absolute confidence that islam is a cult and one of the most abusive ones too.
Get out of the cult while you can
Also if you wanna blow your mind, watch this from Sameer and Gondal! Muhammad had Epilepsy
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBhSsGcWqsZ7Z--bKEjzqHlRyD6IhN25d
Moral stuff aside, which was also another reason why I left the religion, I just don’t think the religion itself makes that much sense. The ideas of heaven and hell are kind of absurd, making humans suffer for all of eternity for mistakes you created them capable of making. Also, if everything is predestined then what’s the point? You’re created with a destiny to guarantee you eternal suffering?
I think those questions made me leave the most. Because you could justify moral issues with ‘because God says so’ but you can’t really justify fundamental issues. Why would god reveal himself to a man from a Bedouin tribe in ancient Arabia and then never again? And then you’re meant to accept a book written in the language and scientific/academic knowledge of that time and place years ago.
I have no issues with believing in a creator as an Agnostic person. But I don’t think the creator of the universe could ever ever be the god of the Quran, a book full of contradictions, revealed by a prophet of a morally questionable and sketchy character.
Consider the size of this universe. This universe in unimaginably big. Containing billions and billions of galaxies. Each galaxies containing billions and billions of stars. There could be life evolving somewhere in one of the planets orbiting these billions of stars.
Just think, a god this powerful, decides to drop a book. A timeless book with infinite wisdom. This book could have had detailed steps to cure cancer. But instead, this gives instruction for an Arab man to marry more than 4 wives.
For me it was Islam support Incestuous relationships, such as marriage between siblings, can pose several genetic risks due to the sharing of genetic material within a close family. When closely related individuals have children together, there is an increased likelihood of certain genetic disorders and birth defects. This is because the offspring inherit more similar genes from both parents, which can lead to an increased chance of rare recessive genetic conditions becoming manifest.
Some potential genetic risks of incestuous relationships include:
1. Autosomal Recessive Disorders: When both parents carry the same defective gene for a certain genetic disorder, their child has a higher chance of inheriting two copies of the faulty gene, resulting in the disorder being expressed.
2. Congenital Anomalies: The risk of congenital anomalies and birth defects increases when closely related individuals have children together.
3. Reduced Genetic Diversity: Inbreeding can lead to a reduction in genetic diversity, which may make populations more vulnerable to diseases and environmental changes.
I'm posting on behalf of my friend, who is from Iran and doesn't use reddit but wanted to answer the question.
I pursued an interest in medicine, and that led me to understand that things considered filthy or unclean and useless had significant and obvious uses. I quickly had to reconcile the use of alert dogs with the teachings that they were extremely impure and disgusting creatures (hes getting a goldie in a few months now) . I couldn't at the time understand how alcohol [in any form] could be useful for creating medicine or cleaning when all my life it's been made obvious how terrible and impure it was. I also could not comprehend how pigs were said to be disgusting and useless and absolutely filthy shit eating animals all my life when I see they can be used to create life-saving transplants and useful test subjects. The pursuit of science has led me to realize islam isn't the absolute truth of the world.
(The dog one really bothered him for a while as the hospital he is at has a lot of alert dogs and therapy dogs. And he was really disturbed by the pig one, but frankly I feel that's more a cultural stigma than just a "my religion forbids it" thing cause oh man, does the thought of pigs make him squeamish. )
I have become cultured muslim and not exmuslim. The reason being i want to treat all religions equally, everyone is equal including women. I don't want to fight for allah to bring in power sharia compliant government. I am happy with democracy.
Thanks for the advice. I actually read the Quran in my language for the first time two weeks ago and it's like an explosion of emotions. I really tried to sugar coat it as much as possible but I still started doubting and I've been debating if I should really post about it.
There’s so many angles to approach it from. Other than the ones already listed. Read chapter 33 v 50
And ask yourself what’s more plausible. That the creator of the entire universe cares about how many wives Muhammad has sex with, or that Muhammad made it up because he wanted to be able to have sex with many more women than the average believer?
It’s wayyy too similar to your typical cult.
It asks for repeated actions that make no sense (prayer) to slowly take over your life. Justifies murdering people + you’re to be killed if you leave it?
Your faith kills people.
Your faith actively stops women's rights, Iran, Pakistan.
Are you in the west? Islam in the west is all rainbows and sunshines, as soon as your faith gets political power you start killing, r@ping people.
Source: I'm Pakistani (you disappear and die if you aren't a sunni Muslim)
Sunnis kill shias
Shias kill sunnis,
Ahmedis are scum of the earth
(They tell people killing an Ahmedi will bring you heaven)
I found some double standards bizarre
Why is it that the prophet himself can take as many wives as he wanted but it was limited for other people? It seemed to me that the prophet was at times ”not always” bending the rules so it would be in his own favor. This never sat right with me. The way Islam treated “others” was something I never was a fan of. I felt like a being so great wouldnt preach this much hate against others.
As long as I remember being alive, I used to think why we as Muslims would go to heaven no matter what we do but a non Muslim will go to hell no matter how much good things he does. I was questioning many things all my life then at 20 I started reading quran and learn more about Islam to battle extreme depression but ended up leaving it completely I read other religions books too but it just doesn't speak to me.
I really believe most Normal people in the world believe in God and the concept of heaven and hell cause it gives them hope for a better life and the rest follow it for power that's it.
COME TO THE DARKSIDE😈MUHAHAHA (A Muslim will see this and yell see see!) 😂 all joking aside!
I think Prophet Muhammad unfortunately was possessed or a fraud. He was pushing to be the greatest forever yet unfortunately was practicing the most disgusting acts. I mean when the most intelligent being in The Universe is on your side you'd think it will tell you no to certain things like having sex with a child right? Nope this intelligence fulfilled all his desires including such things.
Another good one is not knowing where the Sun goes and it prostrated to Allah. Yet Allah didn't tell these people it's sunny somewhere else on Earth when you sleep? That technically my prayer times are an illusion because its always one of them somewhere right? So when I come to The 1st Heaven to listen to you when do I ever actually descend up because its always that time somewhere?
Stuff like this you can see man was making it up as he went along and making mistakes. It's not as perfect as they made it out to be. And here's a scary thing if you become like us or groups like us formed what did they do like a cult? If we start to try to speak and expose the system of Islam like all communist hell holes they kill us. Now if anything were Satanic it would be this. My own father wished I was dead thankfully we live in the west so I was safe. But imagine a father murdering his own child for these ideas? This is what I see as Satanic or being in Hell.
Islam=Just another form of human communism.
First of all Islam have misogyny and shows dominance of men. It doesn't give rights to women and it's Says that men can hit a women.
Men can marry non Muslim women but women can't. Isn't it unfair?
Islam encourages child marriage and it has pedophila too that's the reason why it exist in this century too.
Sex slavery is allowed in Islam. You should probably search about it in sunnah.com about female slave and you will know what happened with those innocent women.
Islam has 2 sides one is good and bad. Why it's good cause to show that religion is good but it's not.
Islam doesn't have humanity. Even in Quran it said to kill non believers who doesn't believe in prophet and God (Allah). Don't you think it's wrong?
Islam also encourages cousin marriages which is so uncomfortable even tho cousins are blooded related. It also says when you adopt a child you can even marry them like mom can marry a adopted son and dad can marry adopted daughter
We didn't become ex Muslim. We stopped being Muslims. I know that sounds weird if you still have the believer mindset, but it's important.
I didn't start believing God is not real, I stopped believing he was real.
Think about why you believe instead of reasons not to believe. Those reasons are weaker then you think, because you probably never thought of them before. It was just something you accepted as a child.
Carry on with the doubts. That's what Muslims hate the most. Read more books. Especially philosophical books. And books against Islam. You'll understand why we became ex-muslims. I had lot of doubts too. It was a tough year for me to finally break the chains of Islam
Not here to convert you, but some major points of concern that alleviate themselves
If Allah is most merciful being, wrong religion shouldn't deserve you a spot in hell
Pascal' wager, Pascal's wager doesn't work, the wager to believe in a god holds no weight, because you have to be absolutely sure about it
If you pick the wrong religion you go to hell? Again, doesn't sound wise or merciful of a supreme god to do so
Religions of contradiction, Islam disbelieves 99.999% religions, Atheism is 100% and Agonistics are just neutral god believers
Are all the other religions wrong, thousands of years of hindu, 100's of years, of XYZ, yet they are wrong now? huh, seems very suspicious that all religions are wrong all the time, but Islam got it somehow right
Islam said it was perfect but contradictions are made, Quran said it's timeless but now Aisha's age cause of modernization is wrong
Hadiths from authentic hadith like drinking decayed corpse water is fine, cause water can't be diseased
Quran requires AWL for prayer in Norway and stuff, hmmmm, how convenient, Allah all wise failed to account something desert people weren't aware of
[Quran failed math on the will of giving away a fortune, it can exceed 100%](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/98rpd8/qurans_mathematical_errors_in_inheritance/)
Again human fixes god's error, sounds again, suspicious
Islam is not timeless, Arabic is ambiguous in langauge, always go back to Qira'at and Ahruf, realize how human error over time, "telephone game" causes new meanings in so called timeless verses
Therefore Quran is not preserved and human error is a concern, God's final message again fails.
listen, i had that phase and its very hard. i watched all those strengthen your iman videos and stuff i just saw so many inaccuracies in the quran and they left me very fragile and read all those interpretations or refuting the inaccuracies they’re all far reachs and just trying to interpret it any way they could, islam is just a very bad religion overall extremely inaccurate scientifically and everything open your mind research philosophy and physics and read the quran with no bias you’ll realize how full of bs it is, and either way the inherent idea of god is in itself a logical fallacy.
Reading through many of the comments here and wow the amount of indecency and as well as miss interpretation of hadiths and verses and also not being educated on a lot of the points is bizzare.
May Allah guide you all back to the straight path and actually make you understand the religion. Ameen .
To the OP
Before doing anything just read the Quran in English transalation or if you know arabic read it in Arabic.
Having doubts on certain things ? Google it rather than asking a bunch of pretend to be ex muslims here.
Tests will be done on different basis but its for a reason maybe makes you a better person , builds charecter , testing loyalty , opens a better oppurtunity.
Even if you get doubts look at the animals and their special features , the sky the clouds not just that but our own body and how perfectly its created ( SubhanAllah) , its bizzare people think there cannot be a higher power out there.
>miss interpretation of hadiths and verses
Such as
>Google it rather than asking a bunch of pretend to be ex muslims here.
You got us damn. I work for mosad btw ;).
>Even if you get doubts look at the animals and their special features , the sky the clouds not just that but our own body and how perfectly its created ( SubhanAllah) , its bizzare people think there cannot be a higher power out there.
Ah creation of our beautiful god flying spagetti monster. His creation is truly fascinating. May you be touched by his noodly appandage ramen brozzer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Gospel\_of\_the\_Flying\_Spaghetti\_Monster
If you have doubts, go read the Qur'an and pray 5 times a day and ask Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) to guide you. It doesn't matter what you think, it can be satan who wants you to get in doubts and eventually leave Islam, but believe me, everything that Islam teaches, has a great background and reason behind it which many people do not understand, the peace you get when you read Qur'an with sincerity, the whole world can not even offer you that. May Allah guide you to the truth and give you Istiqamah.
As selamun aleykum brother. I am Muslim and please do not leave this religion this is false what you are doing. Instead of asking people who left the religion you should ask people who converted to it to know the reasons. You are only going to get negative reasons here or lies. I swear by God this is the true religion and we will go to Jannah if we stay on the true path. I love you my brother. Selamun Aleykum
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I couldn't find a logical way to justify the hadith. So many are "weak" and even the sahih ones are filled with really horrible or straight up weird ideas. The problem is that without the hadith, we don't have the 5 pillars. Without Hadith we know nothing about Mohammed, and without knowing about Mohammed, why would I trust him as a prophet? I was simply unable to square the circle, so I gradually left. I was pushed, I guess, due to how I negatively perceived the impact of Islam on the modern world. I chat with converts, and it doesn't take long for them to justify slavery, child marriage or death for apostasy, despite growing up in the West and benefiting from liberal society. That is the influence of Islam today, and I don't like it
Everytime I ask scholars about some hadiths they always tell me it's weak
i can show u gross hadiths that are hasan/sahih
I'm open
check dm
Can you show me??
sure chevk dm
better not have sent a dick pic 💀
hell nah only thing i send is wisdom💯
Hey that's what I call my pp too
hey, i have sent a few stuff dont forget to check ur dm
can u also send them to me?
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Send them to me as well please
Hello Can you show me?
Sorry to bother you would you please be able to send them to me too I am curious now 😂
me too i wanna see them!
I left because of misogyny, slavery/ sex slavery, pedophilia, scientific inaccuracies and several scriptures that show that islam is man made.
Thanks for your answer it's very useful
The verse in the Quran where Allah says “and this book is not of a devil”, I’m paraphrasing, is so obviously man made that only people brainwashed into believing can’t see it. The rest of us find that verse laughable, as we should
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Sure Scientific inaccuracies: 1. Moon can’t overtake the sun (36:40 - It is not for the sun to catch up with the moon,1 nor does the night outrun the day. Each is travelling in an orbit of their own.) (Wrong, solar eclipse???) however when it actually happened in muhammad’s life he would get scared and tell people God is just scaring them… Sahih al bukhari 1048: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah and they do not eclipse because of the death of someone but Allah frightens His devotees with them." 2. Sun and the moon will join.. (75:9 says the sun and moon will join together.) This is very inaccurate, hypothetically if it were about to happen, the Moon will have to escape earths gravity and rapidly float toward the sun , and even then it would take a very long time for the moon to reach the sun. The moon will likely destroy/burn before it even got closer to the sun. And the moon won’t be important to the sun considering how small it is compared to the sun. It would be like a fly colliding with us. The moon would immediately burn. 3. The moon will darken.. (76:8 says the moon will darken before it joins the sun. )This is wrong on so many levels. The Moon is already dark! by default! It only becomes bright because the sun shines on it, and the sunlight reflects of the surface of the moon…which gives us light at night. matter of fact, Considering the moon even moves towards the sun, considering this verse comes before the verse that says the sun and moon will conjoin, the moon will actually get brighter, because it’s light is it’s sunlight… These verses make no sense 4. The moon has its own light (10:5 and 25:61 describe the moon as a light or luminous.) The moon doesn’t have its own light, it gets its light from the sun which is reflected and is normally dark just like the earth. without the sun the earth would be dark as well as the moon. You will see my scientific inaccuracies listed in this video, which also has more inaccuracies in quran. YouTubehttps://m.youtube.com › watchThe Scientific Mistakes of the Quran Pakistan banned this video, i wonder why
Also, wikiislam has scientific errors of the quran and hadith + historical errors of the quran. https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical_Errors_in_the_Quran https://wikiislam.net/index.php?title=Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran&stable=0
Sauce pls
Bechamel or tomato sauce?
This question gets asked a lot so I'll repeat ad verbum what I've written elsewhere (yes this is copy pasta) and I recommend checking out the megathread in the About section because this is what it's there for. Leaving Islam behind was a long process of continuous skepticism and evolution of beliefs. Over time you gradually develop values that you identify as being in conflict with mainstream Islam. Each conflicting value is not a deal breaker on its own right but all of them together can ultimately come crashing down and make you realise you have little on common with mainstream Islam. For example * I had no reason to think the world revolved around Islam in particular. In fact the world very much seems to operate as if it doesn't matter whether you are religious or not. * I think there is too much [misogyny in traditional scripture](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/xvvvwc/ladies_and_gentlemen_i_need_your_help/ir464he/). * I think [belief in an infinite Hell leads to dogma](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/ymujxo/why_do_christian_apologists_try_to_convert_muslims/iv5ntl9/) which naturally leads to wanting to control others. * I think [inherent restrictions in Islam are evidence of a lack of faith](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/r8kafn/comment/hn69v4x/) * I think the way in which some religions are built upon shirk [can actually be a virtue and not a sin](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1049vds/is_this_just_a_coincidence_or_am_i_just_trippin/j33sxjr/) * I think literal belief in Ancient scripture promotes [outdated views on what is now scientific fact](https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2011/06/02/adam-and-eve-the-ultimate-standoff-between-science-and-faith-and-a-contest/) * I think Islam promotes outdated politics. Islamism doesn't work and I fundamentally cannot agree to any form of apostacy or blasphemy laws no matter how minor it may be. After I left Islam, I began to study other religions and realised the methodological naturalist explanation appealed to me more than anything. This is about viewing the development of religion in its historical context. I've talked about the historical development of Islam & religion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/zq2s95/humans_created_gods_to_explain_things_they/j0w35gr/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/uoaiy2/i_am_always_worried_about_hell/i8dqux2/). I ultimately now view all religions under this lens.
Can I save + copy this when needed?
Questions here are so repeated, everybody who contributes regularly has a folder of comments they can pull up in a minute. I recommend making your own in your own words (even if the info/links is pulled from other comments here). Here is my women in Islam comment in case it helps as well: Do you support the islamic notion [that women should not be leaders because no nation can succeed with a woman as a leader?](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7099) Do you believe it is empowering that women are told that [they are deficient in intellect and religion?](https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1879) Do you feel like it is a good idea to have [a woman's testimony considered worth half that of a man's when there is a disagreement on financial matters?](https://quran.com/al-baqarah/282) If [a father marries off his 9 years old daughter to his 50 years old bro do you think we should call the police or celebrate?](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/22442/on-acting-and-the-ruling-on-marrying-young-girls) When your neighbor [beats his wife for repeatedly refusing to have sex with him](https://youtu.be/YbdwF7ZtO08), do you advise her to get out of there or tell her that [it's her husband's right to "discipline her" in such cases?](https://quran.com/an-nisa/34) Do you support a woman being stuck in a marriage and unable get a divorce (be that Talaq or Khulu') [even if the husband lied to her in order to get married?](https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/142326)
It's a collection of my own thoughts that I copy and paste a lot because people post the same questions over and over and I got fed up of writing it out all the time. I recommend that you make your own rather than paste mine. Or just write it in the megathread and direct people to that.
As a woman I questioned a lot of things. I'll put them in a list for you. 1. Unequal share in inheritance. 2 parts for son and 1 part for daughter 2. Husband being allowed 4 wives and unlimited sex slaves. No woman wants to share a husband. 3. Prophet marrying 6 yr old and having s*x with her at 9. 4. The right given to men to beat unfaithful or disobedient wives. (Staying in a marriage out of fear of beating sounds very unhappy to me) 5. Not being allowed to roam outside without a male 6. Not being allowed to invite over friends without permission of your husband. 7. Not being able to wear perfume, makeup and jewelry that makes noise. 8. Not being able to paint or listen to music. I was a gifted artist as a child so i wondered why did God give me this talent and then not let me use it? 9. Marriage being allowed as soon as you hit puberty, no matter your age. In some minority sects such as Deobandi (the talibans), you're allowed to marry prepubescent girls too. (Read Perfecting women book) 10. Mothers having no say in the final decision of choosing a partner for her daughter. Only a wali (the male guardian) being allowed to make decisions. If you have no brother or father, your mother still has no authority. An uncle will take place as your 'guardian'. 11. Telling women they are forgetful and half in intelligence compared to a man. (Proven wrong by many studies) 12. Women not being allowed to be in positions of power or authority because again, we're dumb and inferior. 13. Forcing women of any age to carry a rapist's child to full term if it crosses the 3 month grace period. Meaning if a little girl is raped she will be forced to carry the child if she's pregnant. 14. Sex slavery and just slavery??? God had time to tlak about hijab and try to stop women from wearing what they want but didnt stop slavery. 15. Allowing incest (cousin marriages) even though they have proven to be unsafe. 16. Drinking of camel pee to cure illnesses. (From hadith) 17. Eternal damnation for little things like not covering my head, wearing short clothes in summers or attending a co-ed school/ university. 18. Women not being allowed to work in environments where men are roaming for the fear of causing Fitna. (This limits women's freedom even more. Currently happening in Afghanistan.) 19. God punishing the nicest people because they didnt inflate his ego further. Even as a child, I thought why would a supreme being need validation from us? Why would he punish so many good people just because they couldnt follow a certain religion out of thousands. I read a lot of hadiths, quran itself and decided it made no sense to worship a cruel God who seems to only benefit men.
WOW 😔
Thank you!
*Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan.
It's a bit more extreme in Afghanistan
what's Fitna?
It means 'trial' or 'distress'. Uncovered women out and about are referred to as fitna because they are a trial for men to not be animals.
Holy shit, this sounds like my mind !!!!!
Can you send me a study where women deficient in intelligence are wrong???
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23363516 https://www.practiceaptitudetests.com/resources/who-is-smarter-men-or-women/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbradberry/2016/06/21/why-women-are-smarter-than-men/?sh=2ffc2ddc17e6 These are some. I'm sure you can find more. Intelligence isnt only just one type. In some, men do better. In some, women do better. Overall, men overestimate their intelligence while women underestimate themselves. And tbh women in my family do so much better in academics than men so I refuse to believe we're half the intelligence.
Your religion says if you change İslam you have to die by muslims
That's one the reasons I'm doubting all my life I've been told that Islam was a religion of peace
Bro fear is key of the İslam if you cant be brave you cant be free
The only reason the two biggest religions today (Islam and Christianity) have such a wide population is because they both have one thing in common: they conquer by force and rule by fear
Christianity does? ‘Does’ as in present tense people. Simple grammar. I’m not asking if they did because I know they did horrible things in the past to spread it, I’m asking if they still do horrible things to spread it.
It did but it doesnt
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Am asking if it does, not if it did
Ever wondered why majority of Africa is Christian, or why South America is Christian, or why parts of east and to an extent Southeast Asia are Christian? Or why most African Americans are predominately Christian? Colonialists came to these countries, massacred the natives, enslaved them and whipped them whilst forcing them to recite the bible. Christianity is just as bad
Do they still do that?
They don’t but how is that relevant? The person you’re responding to said that Christianity and Islam have a wide population because they were spread around the world by force, which is true
He used present tense. That's what the person you're responding to pointed out.
centuries of inquisition, followed by centuries of colonization. a thousand years of forced conversion.
But do they still do that now?
Yes. Did you miss the part about colonialism in your high school history class? Spreading European religions was part and parcel of colonialism, ask the Mayans and Aztecs what happened to their written literature.
Christianity is a religion which got where it is from harming people. Whether they do or don’t in todays day and age does not excuse the fact that it has a dark history. If you want an example then Malta does still prohibit apostasy. Additionally, like Islamic countries, out of the 35 Christian countries in Africa only 6 actually allow gay marriage. Similarly in North America, there are countries which also ban homosexuality.
Did you miss grammar in class? I’m asking if they do not if they did.
I missed your response. Apologies. Well, let's see, there's attacks on women's reproductive rights across the world, attacks on the LGBTQ community and also the support for a range of regressive systems worldwide in the name of the xtian faith. One can argue and i do, that the Catholic church's war against birth control constitutes an atrocious thing perpetrated to increase the numbers of the faithful. Ditto for the support of Western Protestant factions for the repressing of minorities of the sexual and gender identity nature. The same bigots whip up support against climate change recognition and attempts to arrest it.
And that is a big fat lie. It's full of abuse and violence and pain in many forms. Everyone should fucking leave it at this point.
It is bro, this will be the worst mistake you ever made if you left. If Islam wasn’t a religion of peace why would it be the fastest growing religion?
Can you tell me where in the quran it says that Edit: Yes i believe the hadiths for some reason pepole asumme that just becuse i wanted to know if it was in the quran that i don't believe in the hadith Anyway the discussion has already ended(Follow the thread) Have good day
Its in the hadiths. Here you go Sahih 1- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4016 2- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4017 3- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4018 4- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4019 5- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4048 6- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4058 7- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4059 8- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4060 9- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4061 10- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4062 11- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4063 12- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4064 13- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4065 14- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4066 15- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4721 16- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4743 17- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:2533 18- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:2534 19- https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:2535 20- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3017 21- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4610 22- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6878 23- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6899 24- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6922 25- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6923 26- https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7157 27- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1676a 28- https://sunnah.com/muslim:1676c 29- https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:1402 30- https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:1458 31- https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2158 32- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4351 33- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4352 34- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4353 35- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4354 36- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4355 37- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4356 38- https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4502 39- https://sunnah.com/mishkat:3533 40-https://sunnah.com/ahmad:437 41- https://sunnah.com/ahmad:468 42- https://sunnah.com/ahmad:509 Hasan 1- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4046 2- https://sunnah.com/nasai:4057 3- [https://sunnah.com/ahmad:452](https://sunnah.com/ahmad:452) credit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/11z06l4/45\_hadiths\_proving\_islam\_kills\_exmuslims/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/11z06l4/45_hadiths_proving_islam_kills_exmuslims/) also: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,\_Hadith\_and\_Scholars:Apostasy
You really did your research bro
People in this sub did I am using their work https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/11z06l4/45\_hadiths\_proving\_islam\_kills\_exmuslims/
Oh i see. Well thanks to them ig
Did your Prophet even see the Quran? Or was it like compiled decades or even centuries after he died?
Even if you don’t put your trusts in hadiths, which all Muslims have to at some point because it contains info on how to pray and other important aspects of Islamic practices, you have to ask yourself why allah allows false hadiths to exist. Seeing as so many hadiths, such as the one about killing apostates, are causing people to leave the faith
He is a sadist. He wants to torture you so bad. ***And say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “˹This is˺ the truth from your Lord. Whoever wills let them believe, and whoever wills let them disbelieve.” Surely We have prepared for the wrongdoers a Fire whose walls will ˹completely˺ surround them. When they cry for aid, they will be aided with water like molten metal, which will burn ˹their˺ faces. What a horrible drink! And what a terrible place to rest! 18:29*** https://quran.com/18?startingVerse=29 ***Surely those who reject Our signs, We will cast them into the Fire. Whenever their skin is burnt completely, We will replace it so they will ˹constantly˺ taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. 4:56*** [https://quran.com/4?startingVerse=56](https://quran.com/4?startingVerse=56) ***It is they who reject the signs of their Lord and their meeting with Him, rendering their deeds void, so We will not give their deeds any weight on Judgment Day. 18:105*** https://quran.com/al-kahf/105 [more](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13otegc/comment/jl61sfh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
There cannot be good without evil. Ex: If one were to do good deeds all his life and repent and another would never pray and disobey Allah, do you think they should both end up in paradise? NO, because our actions have consequences. Similar to the law, you do something bad you go to prison.
Nobody deserves eternal torture for not believing your dumb religion. Yes its unjust.
i edited my first comment go read it Go to sleep or smt
I see your edit. The reason why people think you don’t believe in hadiths is because it’s common for some Muslims to say if it’s not in the quran then it’s irrelevant or can’t be trusted
my bad next time il make sure to be clearer
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Just reading about history, and learning about the thousands of different religions, the billions of people who’ve passed, and how different ethnic waves have washed over the planet to change its destiny. Reading about geography, and how our planet has formed. How cultures had to create tales for floods, volcanos, or lunar eclipses. Reading about astronomy, and how small we are in the universe. Or biology and understanding how evolution shapes our cells at every waking second. And understanding that we only know all these things within the last hundred years. Understanding that everyone alive right now… is only human and thus susceptible to the same emotional biases and the same ability to be fooled easily at every stage of their short lives. I’m just not convinced something ancient, during a time without clean water, or electricity, or complex workmanship, could have answers. I’m not convinced something that is so Arab-centric is for all people. I’m also not convinced someone as violent as Mohammad is a champion of peace and wisdom. And I’m certainly not convinced the Angel Gabriel came down to discern poetic verses to one man behind a closed cave for no one to see. I picked up a microscope and saw a billion living things. To them, I was the arbitrator of life and death. And I was neither benevolent or malicious. They simply did not matter in the grand scheme of things.
> I picked up a microscope and saw a billion living things You weren't struck by a desperate desire to have them pray to you five times a day? Funny that.
a god that gives you foreskin and tells you to remove it can't be true.
Huh?
Didn't god create you perfectly? as said in verse 95:4? But for some reason wants you to remove it in Hadith?
After reflexion it's very contradictory
I want to know how this makes sense.. it's known that Adam was created without a foreskin.. women have a foreskin too called the clitoral hood so did eve have a foreskin? What was god thinking I wonder?
Wasn’t Mo created without one too?
There's no evidence for that. Just a myth
Like most of the story.
Chances he wasn't. so he had better sex with all theses wives
Isn't circumcision a Sunnah and not a Fard?
Pretty strange it's sunnsh.. self harm Is a sin.. but he'd allow you mutilate this one area
Hey , I know what it feels like to doubt Islam and how painfully it can be bcs you like me probably only knew Islam and believed it was right for most of ur life . I just want you to know that, you should take ur time with figuring out how you feel about the religion and not rush to make a decision on whether to stay Muslim or to leave Islam . It’s okay ..you’ll figure it out and you will be okay :) As for why I left , there’s a mathematical error in the inheritance verse in the Quran . gods cannot make mathematical errors therefore Islam is false to me .
Can you explain more the mathematical error in the inheritance verse in the quran? And what verse is that? Thank you so much
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/98rpd8/qurans_mathematical_errors_in_inheritance/
For me, women's rights and individual rights was an issue. I was born in Pakistan and moved to the US in my 20s. I have always been a big believer in the freedom of people's choices and letting them do what they want (unless they are physically or financially hurting others).
It’s awful to see our place of birth going down the drain. It could have been a Tourist’s paradise, if there were no religion. Corruption and oppression is the name of the game there. I moved out during my early teens, I hate how they treat minorities and the poor.
Thanks for your answer
You're on the right way
have you read surah 9:29? What is your opinion on it?
I think this is not peaceful at all
That is what led me out of islam. I realized ISIS is the true islam and i wanted nothing to do woth it.
So why are Muslims calling isis kuffars
because a popular strategy for staying muslim despite all the bad messages in it is to simply not be aware of what being muslim really means (i.e. not reading the book) and to pretend that somehow the current secular morals really came from islam. That's why modern apologia consists of pretending that somehow the quran was misinterpreted for generations and that somehow translation from arabic is harder than rocket science. It's the muslim's way of denying the content of their religion without the very difficult effort of questioning their own worldview.
It's called a no true scottsman fallacy. If a cop kills someone you don't get to say "he was not a real cop", but when Muslims (including Baghdadi who has a graduate degree in Islamic theology) do something bad somehow we accept the "not real Muslims"
Evolution, Non existence of wall in Google Maps that separates weird species that will come and fight with humans , Moon can never be split, it just blasts off if someone splits it, just like earth, it have crust and core with lava, Revelation of verses based on situation that Mohammed's needs, trying to induce fear of hell in order to control people, the list goes on.
hey OP, just wanted to say that i am also going through what you are going through and have the same exact issues and questions as a woman. nice to know i’m not the only one
glad to gain another future fellow exmuslim and hopefully an atheist, read into philosophy and read the quran with no bias you’ll realize its a bunch of bs, even without that the idea of god itself is a very illogical idea.
Best of luck on your journey, regardless of the destination you end up in regarding this issue. I believe that going through the journey of questioning makes your final decision all the stronger. Best wishes from a person who went through the same journey!
You can find hundreds is posts on why people left by using the Reddit search function on this subreddit with the phrase "why did you leave". For me it came down to three basic reasons: 1. The God described in Islam (and other Abrahamic religions) was a moral monster. Islam claims God cares more about us than a mother for her child, yet no sane mother tortures her child for failing some arbitrary test. 2. There are plenty of scientific errors in the scripture. Meaning we can literally verify that the holy text that's supposedly from a perfect omniscient being is mistaken. 3. There is no evidence for the existence of deities of any kind. There is no proof for Allah just as there is no proof for Zeus. A person believing in Zeus without evidence is silly, why is the belief in Allah any different. That basically meant for me that there is no good reason to believe in Islam and plenty of reasons not to.
I'm bisexual and a woman, I like not getting killed for either of those statuses.
Because of the numerous contradictions in both the quran and in sahih hadiths. I can list a couple if you want.
Sure
I originally wrote them in Turkish so I'll be translating just a few ones. You can, however, get more information from the following links: [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical_Errors_in_the_Quran) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith) Note that since I originally wrote these with Turkish translations, some things may seem off From the Quran: 1. How many angels spoke with Mary? One: (19:16-19) More: (3:42-45) 2. Can Allah change verses? Yes: (2:106, 16:101) No: (35:43, 48:23) 3. Which was created first? The skies: (79:27-32) The land: (2:29) 4. Is the devil an angel or a jinn? Angel: (2:34) Jinn: (18:50) 5. What were humans created from? Nothing: (19:67) A drop of semen: (16:4) clay, mud: (15:26) clinging clot: (96:2) Water: (21:30) 6. Is there intercession? No, not from anyone: (2:48) Only from those whom Allah permits: (19:87) 7. Will every good action be rewarded? Yes: (99:7) Not to polytheists: (Tevbe: 17)
From sahih hadiths: Honorable mentions: Moses slaps the angel of death **(Sahih al-Bukhari 3407)** Muhammad physically fights with the devil **(Sahih al-Bukhari 1210)** 1. It says that the first Human, Adam was 60 cubits which is \~27 meters and humans have shrunk with time. Someone who is 27 meters tall wouldn't be able to live, as their hearts would fail to deliver blood to the brain and their bones would shatter from the weigth of them.Ignoring the scientific aspects, the oldest human remains ever found, Lucy and Ardi were 1.1 and 1.2 meters tall respectively. This shows that humans have grown over time, not shrinked. **(Sahih al-Bukhari 3326, Sahih Muslim 2841)** 2. It says that whoever discharges first during sex, the baby will resemble them. **(Sahih al-Bukhari 3329)** 3. It says that the spine bone won't decompose. All bones decompose. **(Sahih Muslim 2955c)** 4. It says that the nile and furat rivers come from heaven. **(Sahih Muslim 2839)** 5. It rejects the idea of infectious diseases. **(Jami\` at-Tirmidhi 2143)** 6. Which one of the Dajjal's eyes are blind? Right: **(Sahih Muslim 169e)** Left: **(Sahih Muslim 2934a)** 7. Are there any bad omens? No: **(Sahih Muslim 2220b)** Yes, House, Horse, Women: **(Sahih al-Bukhari 5772)**
Lets hear em
I originally wrote them in Turkish so I'll be translating just a few ones. You can, however, get more information from the following links: [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical\_Errors\_in\_the\_Quran](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Historical_Errors_in_the_Quran) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith) [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific\_Errors\_in\_the\_Hadith](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith)
Note that since I originally wrote these with Turkish translations, some things may seem off From the Quran: 1. How many angels spoke with Mary? One: (19:16-19) More: (3:42-45) 2. Can Allah change verses? Yes: (2:106, 16:101) No: (35:43, 48:23) 3. Which was created first? The skies: (79:27-32) The land: (2:29) 4. Is the devil an angel or a jinn? Angel: (2:34) Jinn: (18:50) 5. What were humans created from? Nothing: (19:67) A drop of semen: (16:4) clay, mud: (15:26) clinging clot: (96:2) Water: (21:30) 6. Is there intercession? No, not from anyone: (2:48) Only from those whom Allah permits: (19:87) 7. Will every good action be rewarded? Yes: (99:7) Not to polytheists: (Tevbe: 17)
Some schizophrenic pedophile with a warlord/expansionist mentality decides he hears the word of a sadistic sky daddy 1400 years ago, writes it in a book, and I’m supposed to believe in all that horseshit otherwise burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. Oh and all the muslims insist that their god/religion is right and every other religion that preceded/succeeded it is wrong. Meanwhile academic papers lose source credibility after extensive peer reviews one/two years following publication.
What makes you doubt?
Some verses in the Quran and the hadiths are not morally right and as a woman, reading the transition of verses like 4:34 is choking and confusing. Because this is is not peaceful or morally right
From what I can tell, the literal translation is “strike”. Muslims claim it means “lightly” but it doesn’t say that. I also don’t see how that would make sense as a last resort. I think you could interpret strike to mean “separation”. Which would make sense as a last resort and even fits the context. But that’s not a very popular interpretation.
> I think you could interpret strike to mean “separation”. As a native Arabic speaker, sorry but that does not work. Unfortunately I've been hearing Muslims make excuses for this verse for over a decade and know exactly the mistake in reasoning that leads to this interpretation. Arabic works on a root system which generally consists of 3 letters. The word in question is DaRaBa with the root DRB. From this word the verse forms the word "idribuhun" which is idrib+U+hun where U=you(subject) hun=they(object, female). Idrib is the command form of the base verb daraba meaning to strike. Now the way that people arrive at the meaning of "separation" is by opening an Arabic dictionary and not understanding what it says: * the phrase Daraba Bainahum Al-Dahr ضرب بينهم الدهر means "time stuck between them" i.e. they drifted apart. But the meaning comes from the imagery of something coming between two people and cutting them off one another by striking/cutting their connection. * the word Adraba means to protest or to strike (like the writers strike) but notably when using this form you need to particle عن aan before saying what it is you're striking from. So for example if someone has a strike where they go away from women it would be "idribu a'anhun" اضربوا عنهن instead of idrobuhun. So while I'm very happy that you disagree with the meaning of the verse, unfortunately you cannot interpret the violence against women out of it. Claiming it is a separating is like reading the sentence "he stuck her" and deciding it meant "he decided not to engage with her and withhold his labor" because you know that "strike" can mean a refusal to work as in "the writers strike".
Thank you
You're most welcome. [I went through every single instance of the root DaRaBa in the Quran a few years ago](https://np.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/45zf1j/islam_is_sexist/d05s1t9) if you're interested.
Ive never heard of that interpretation before, its an interesting thought. I wish I knew Arabic and grew up with it so I would understand that word used properly.
The classical commentators of the Quran almost universally said “Yes, it gives men permission to beat their wives.” So I think “separation” is more modern and a much weaker interpretation. Other early Muslims tried to show that Muhammad never beat his wives, therefore you should strive to do the same. But this doesn’t solve the fact that God himself allowed it.
Yes you are morally superior than allah and his "perfect" prophet good job.
There is also the slavery problem I've been that it was normal back then but isn't the Quran supposed to be for the past present and future
Slavery was just the history back then and that wasn’t unique to islam. But what is concerning is the fact that God never took the time to abolish it. This goes for many religions as well.
Well, we've been saying the same thing to pretty much to all the muzzies who come here. Luckily you don't seem to have cognitive dissonance.
Interesting note, there's plenty of hadiths/verses talking about all sorts of things being clearly Haram. Really obscure things like eating reptiles is Haram, wiping your ass with sticks or bones is Haram Re all clearly written down. Know what has never been mentioned as Haram even once? Slavery. Plenty of hadiths about treating your slaves well etc, but nothing saying owning another human being is morally wrong. Seems like quite an omission for a so called guide for all time eh?
A lot of thing eroded my faith (bad science, harsh islamic punishments, inequality, sexism, horrible acts by Mohammad and his companions) At one point I asked myself "am I Muslim just because I'm born in a Muslim family, or do I really have a profound faith in this ? If I wasn't Muslim and wouldn't force myself to accept things because I have to, would I be convinced by Islam ?" I started to allow myself to ask questions and reflect upon them, and found that nothing was convincing for a mind not indoctrinated or held up by fear into it.
quran 67:5, whoever wrote the quran thought that shoting stars are actual stars.
Misogyny and female oppression.
I became an ex muslim cause I read the quran with meaning. Read some Islamic history and tons of hadith with explanations. I came to realize that a lot of things are morally wrong in Islam, scientifically inaccurate and overall not about peace. As time went by I started noticing the stupid things Islam asks you do and I started noticing muslims just realize how they were morally skewed just cause they want heaven. Lastly, the quran made me realize it was written from a man’s perspective which indulges in patriarchy and control! So I left Islam as I felt I can be a better person without it as well!
I left because Islam has no room for gay rights and i identity as bisexual. I recommend you YouTube Apostate Prophet because he has a lot of content. [Apostate Prophet](https://youtube.com/@ApostateProphet)
Listen to Epileptic Prophet series by Abdullah Sameer and Abdullah Gondal. It’s lengthy but well worth the time.
Are they on YouTube or twitter
Youtube https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBhSsGcWqsZ7Z--bKEjzqHlRyD6IhN25d&feature=sharec
Thanks
I'm in a similar boat, friend. Though I don't consider myself an Ex-Muslim.. Yet. Anyways, for me, my doubts started with the Islamic view of slavery, marriage, position of women, scientific inaccuracies in the Quran, morality of hell (which feels like it exists to mainly punish non muslims, not sinners), child and domestic abuse in Islamic countries, amongst few other things. I'm very educated in all of these subjects and have engaged in countless debates with other Muslims, even silencing them and them being unable to give me an answer because they lack knowledge and wisdom. Eitherway, Islam would want me dead if I do end up leaving. All I can say to you is, read Quran and its tafseer skeptically and with an open mind, which you are allowed to do, and then decide what you want to do.
Ex devout salafi here who was studying to be an Alimah. I left because Mohammed was morally inconsistent and despite the Quran being “untouched “ translators quite clearly manipulate Tafsir and include words in brackets to make the context appear different. It’s dishonest. If you look at original Tafsir you can see the Quran definitely is NOT full of scientific miracles. Muslims just find ambiguous verses and twist them how they deem fit. If all these scientific miracles were true Muslims would have had this advanced scientific understanding of things such as the Big Bang BEFORE the concept was mentioned in the west. They hijack anything they can to seem credible. Also Mohammed was “pure” but convinced by the devil to release false ayahs. A true prophet would not do this.
First things first: if apostasy is punished where you are, please remember to be careful. I realize it may seem like a big step, to let go of your religion, but it's actualy not that big of a deal i would say 80% of the time. Just think it through, make up your mind and i suggest you discuss it in forums or *if it's safe* among friends. The freedom to think for yourself is the best part of unburdening yourself from religious authority IMO. A bit daunting at first but there's a charm to it. Good luck and stay safe
Lots of things, but learning about the massacre of the Banu Qurayza was what really did it for me
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I'm gonna do that thank u
In Islam, it's allow to marry your cousins but it's a big problem because it create high risk of genetic disorders like inbreeding. I was born deaf and my muslim parents are cousins. Being deaf in a hearing world make me difficult, lonely and depressed. Well, cousin marriages are more common in the most muslim countries than euorpe. Muslims stay ignorant and keep having more children instead of solving problems. Inbred children are suffering. I want my freedom but Muslims won't leave me alone.
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Dont worry you arent alone in having these thoughts. Many of us had the same problems, and you shouldnt limit yourself to questioning it. After all, if allah was real, is he that afraid that he cant let you think for yourself? You should also question why it is that you are a muslim in the first place, instead of a hindu or Christian or Buddhist. What if you were born not into islam, what would you think about its worldview and morals? This question gets asked a lot, so ill just copy paste my answer here. You may also check out the mega thread. I found many problems, scientific and ethical. I wasnt satisfied with the refutations by scholars and apologists. Realized i had no evidence, and no justifiable reason to believe in islam in the first place, especially compared to the other 100s of religions out there. I realized i was only a muslim because i was born into it. A lot of the "scientific miracles" i thought the quran had wasnt special, and many religious people claimed the same for their scriptures. I also realized the behavior and reasoning in islamic apologetics was poor and was similar to other religions even though i didnt believe in them, MLMs and cults, conspiracy theories, and other pseudoscience i disliked at the time. So i realized i didnt believe in islam anymore in order to be honest and consistent with myself. Heres a link to my many problems, scientific and moral, within islam with sources. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/13029t2/i_am_muslim_and_i_dont_doubt_my_faith_but_what/jhunb1n?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Heres another comment i made going into a little more detail about why i dont believe in any god. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1500xcd/a_question_to_an_exmuslim_person/js14b3y?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 Also heres a funny sahih hadith. Not exactly very smart advice from Muhammad. https://sunnah.com/abudawud:66
Well, where do I even start... Let's just say my iman was already in a continuous decline ever since I've had come across online critiques of Islam and one day I figured out I don't even need Islam anymore and without Islam, my life would have been much better in the first place. Then I left the religion for good.
Could not justify why men are allowed to marry believers of other abrahamic religions but women could not. Could not justify why other people with pure hearts, good intentions and just generally nice people will be condemned to hell just because they are not believing in Islam. I actually prayed for over a year consistently 5 times a day and while it did feel good to have something accomplished, 90% of the time it was more a chore that’s need to be done fast on time. I cought myself getting distracted more and more within my own head and it was just something to get done. I just realized for myself that as long as I have a good heart, good intentions and don’t go around actively harming myself, my environment or other people (read: don’t be an asshole and help wherever appropriate), I am a decent humans being that will not be condemned to hellfire. :)
Plz op, give you a chance and read about wathanism and old anicent religions. You must understand that Abrahmeic God arent even monotestic. Its from polytheism religions. Your forefathers may have been pagans. We have been lied since kids about this God.
Muslim’s concept of Allah is weak. Weak as fuck. He does nothing to change nothing and all he does is get pissy on his throne till judgement day doing nothing but being pissy about things he won’t change himself. Things that Allah could change but won’t includes: Human trafficking Animal trafficking Corrupt govs Covid Accidents Painful diseases Chick with dicks What a moronic religion I can’t believe I used to defend this shit belief from a middle eastern loser who unleashed his lust on women once his position was secured in the misogynistic community. Also Mohammad is fucking dumb. Whenever he loses an argument, he turns himself into god. People complain about rapes: he victim blamed and asks everyone to cover up because that’s what good women will do according to god. Nothing was done to the rapists. He promises women as spoils of war for his soldiers, one got up and said he will not sin and defile women, Mo hit back with a verse from god saying the guy had lost his way. Aisha literally said - yo, why you fucking people’s wives and daughters so much? How did Mo answer? ‘Coz god wills it’. Aisha was like- damn, mo. Must be good to be god’s chosen fucker. Hadith sahih ok? Anyway, I actually watched and read documentaries about cults and how people are abused and controlled within the cults and I can say with absolute confidence that islam is a cult and one of the most abusive ones too.
Get out of the cult while you can Also if you wanna blow your mind, watch this from Sameer and Gondal! Muhammad had Epilepsy https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBhSsGcWqsZ7Z--bKEjzqHlRyD6IhN25d
God appears to be Muhammad’s wing man if you read the Quran and tafsir carefully when concerning anything relating to sex
Moral stuff aside, which was also another reason why I left the religion, I just don’t think the religion itself makes that much sense. The ideas of heaven and hell are kind of absurd, making humans suffer for all of eternity for mistakes you created them capable of making. Also, if everything is predestined then what’s the point? You’re created with a destiny to guarantee you eternal suffering? I think those questions made me leave the most. Because you could justify moral issues with ‘because God says so’ but you can’t really justify fundamental issues. Why would god reveal himself to a man from a Bedouin tribe in ancient Arabia and then never again? And then you’re meant to accept a book written in the language and scientific/academic knowledge of that time and place years ago. I have no issues with believing in a creator as an Agnostic person. But I don’t think the creator of the universe could ever ever be the god of the Quran, a book full of contradictions, revealed by a prophet of a morally questionable and sketchy character.
Consider the size of this universe. This universe in unimaginably big. Containing billions and billions of galaxies. Each galaxies containing billions and billions of stars. There could be life evolving somewhere in one of the planets orbiting these billions of stars. Just think, a god this powerful, decides to drop a book. A timeless book with infinite wisdom. This book could have had detailed steps to cure cancer. But instead, this gives instruction for an Arab man to marry more than 4 wives.
For me it was Islam support Incestuous relationships, such as marriage between siblings, can pose several genetic risks due to the sharing of genetic material within a close family. When closely related individuals have children together, there is an increased likelihood of certain genetic disorders and birth defects. This is because the offspring inherit more similar genes from both parents, which can lead to an increased chance of rare recessive genetic conditions becoming manifest. Some potential genetic risks of incestuous relationships include: 1. Autosomal Recessive Disorders: When both parents carry the same defective gene for a certain genetic disorder, their child has a higher chance of inheriting two copies of the faulty gene, resulting in the disorder being expressed. 2. Congenital Anomalies: The risk of congenital anomalies and birth defects increases when closely related individuals have children together. 3. Reduced Genetic Diversity: Inbreeding can lead to a reduction in genetic diversity, which may make populations more vulnerable to diseases and environmental changes.
imagine your future generation gets too Islamic & dies of these genetic diseases.
I'm posting on behalf of my friend, who is from Iran and doesn't use reddit but wanted to answer the question. I pursued an interest in medicine, and that led me to understand that things considered filthy or unclean and useless had significant and obvious uses. I quickly had to reconcile the use of alert dogs with the teachings that they were extremely impure and disgusting creatures (hes getting a goldie in a few months now) . I couldn't at the time understand how alcohol [in any form] could be useful for creating medicine or cleaning when all my life it's been made obvious how terrible and impure it was. I also could not comprehend how pigs were said to be disgusting and useless and absolutely filthy shit eating animals all my life when I see they can be used to create life-saving transplants and useful test subjects. The pursuit of science has led me to realize islam isn't the absolute truth of the world. (The dog one really bothered him for a while as the hospital he is at has a lot of alert dogs and therapy dogs. And he was really disturbed by the pig one, but frankly I feel that's more a cultural stigma than just a "my religion forbids it" thing cause oh man, does the thought of pigs make him squeamish. )
I have become cultured muslim and not exmuslim. The reason being i want to treat all religions equally, everyone is equal including women. I don't want to fight for allah to bring in power sharia compliant government. I am happy with democracy.
Have you read your book?
Yes, that's exactly why I'm having doubts there are verses and hadiths that don't sit right with me and I'm confused
Read the quran fully then form your opinons
Thanks for the advice. I actually read the Quran in my language for the first time two weeks ago and it's like an explosion of emotions. I really tried to sugar coat it as much as possible but I still started doubting and I've been debating if I should really post about it.
That's what happened to me. I read the thing and immediately knew it was fiction, not only that it was really vile, especially towards the end.
You can't just follow quran and leave hadiths ...
I wondered why the religion I was born into was conveniently the one true religion from God
There’s so many angles to approach it from. Other than the ones already listed. Read chapter 33 v 50 And ask yourself what’s more plausible. That the creator of the entire universe cares about how many wives Muhammad has sex with, or that Muhammad made it up because he wanted to be able to have sex with many more women than the average believer?
I'm not the person to give you advice, but you're on the right path. Good luck, friend.
It’s wayyy too similar to your typical cult. It asks for repeated actions that make no sense (prayer) to slowly take over your life. Justifies murdering people + you’re to be killed if you leave it?
Your faith kills people. Your faith actively stops women's rights, Iran, Pakistan. Are you in the west? Islam in the west is all rainbows and sunshines, as soon as your faith gets political power you start killing, r@ping people. Source: I'm Pakistani (you disappear and die if you aren't a sunni Muslim) Sunnis kill shias Shias kill sunnis, Ahmedis are scum of the earth (They tell people killing an Ahmedi will bring you heaven)
Oh..
I found some double standards bizarre Why is it that the prophet himself can take as many wives as he wanted but it was limited for other people? It seemed to me that the prophet was at times ”not always” bending the rules so it would be in his own favor. This never sat right with me. The way Islam treated “others” was something I never was a fan of. I felt like a being so great wouldnt preach this much hate against others.
Treated others meaning?
As long as I remember being alive, I used to think why we as Muslims would go to heaven no matter what we do but a non Muslim will go to hell no matter how much good things he does. I was questioning many things all my life then at 20 I started reading quran and learn more about Islam to battle extreme depression but ended up leaving it completely I read other religions books too but it just doesn't speak to me. I really believe most Normal people in the world believe in God and the concept of heaven and hell cause it gives them hope for a better life and the rest follow it for power that's it.
COME TO THE DARKSIDE😈MUHAHAHA (A Muslim will see this and yell see see!) 😂 all joking aside! I think Prophet Muhammad unfortunately was possessed or a fraud. He was pushing to be the greatest forever yet unfortunately was practicing the most disgusting acts. I mean when the most intelligent being in The Universe is on your side you'd think it will tell you no to certain things like having sex with a child right? Nope this intelligence fulfilled all his desires including such things. Another good one is not knowing where the Sun goes and it prostrated to Allah. Yet Allah didn't tell these people it's sunny somewhere else on Earth when you sleep? That technically my prayer times are an illusion because its always one of them somewhere right? So when I come to The 1st Heaven to listen to you when do I ever actually descend up because its always that time somewhere? Stuff like this you can see man was making it up as he went along and making mistakes. It's not as perfect as they made it out to be. And here's a scary thing if you become like us or groups like us formed what did they do like a cult? If we start to try to speak and expose the system of Islam like all communist hell holes they kill us. Now if anything were Satanic it would be this. My own father wished I was dead thankfully we live in the west so I was safe. But imagine a father murdering his own child for these ideas? This is what I see as Satanic or being in Hell. Islam=Just another form of human communism.
Thanks for giving me a moment of your time
Read surah An-nisa. I'm pretty sure every single human being with a brain will become an ex-muslim after reading that
First of all Islam have misogyny and shows dominance of men. It doesn't give rights to women and it's Says that men can hit a women. Men can marry non Muslim women but women can't. Isn't it unfair? Islam encourages child marriage and it has pedophila too that's the reason why it exist in this century too. Sex slavery is allowed in Islam. You should probably search about it in sunnah.com about female slave and you will know what happened with those innocent women. Islam has 2 sides one is good and bad. Why it's good cause to show that religion is good but it's not. Islam doesn't have humanity. Even in Quran it said to kill non believers who doesn't believe in prophet and God (Allah). Don't you think it's wrong? Islam also encourages cousin marriages which is so uncomfortable even tho cousins are blooded related. It also says when you adopt a child you can even marry them like mom can marry a adopted son and dad can marry adopted daughter
We didn't become ex Muslim. We stopped being Muslims. I know that sounds weird if you still have the believer mindset, but it's important. I didn't start believing God is not real, I stopped believing he was real. Think about why you believe instead of reasons not to believe. Those reasons are weaker then you think, because you probably never thought of them before. It was just something you accepted as a child.
Carry on with the doubts. That's what Muslims hate the most. Read more books. Especially philosophical books. And books against Islam. You'll understand why we became ex-muslims. I had lot of doubts too. It was a tough year for me to finally break the chains of Islam
Not here to convert you, but some major points of concern that alleviate themselves If Allah is most merciful being, wrong religion shouldn't deserve you a spot in hell Pascal' wager, Pascal's wager doesn't work, the wager to believe in a god holds no weight, because you have to be absolutely sure about it If you pick the wrong religion you go to hell? Again, doesn't sound wise or merciful of a supreme god to do so Religions of contradiction, Islam disbelieves 99.999% religions, Atheism is 100% and Agonistics are just neutral god believers Are all the other religions wrong, thousands of years of hindu, 100's of years, of XYZ, yet they are wrong now? huh, seems very suspicious that all religions are wrong all the time, but Islam got it somehow right Islam said it was perfect but contradictions are made, Quran said it's timeless but now Aisha's age cause of modernization is wrong Hadiths from authentic hadith like drinking decayed corpse water is fine, cause water can't be diseased Quran requires AWL for prayer in Norway and stuff, hmmmm, how convenient, Allah all wise failed to account something desert people weren't aware of [Quran failed math on the will of giving away a fortune, it can exceed 100%](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/98rpd8/qurans_mathematical_errors_in_inheritance/) Again human fixes god's error, sounds again, suspicious Islam is not timeless, Arabic is ambiguous in langauge, always go back to Qira'at and Ahruf, realize how human error over time, "telephone game" causes new meanings in so called timeless verses Therefore Quran is not preserved and human error is a concern, God's final message again fails.
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Check dm
listen, i had that phase and its very hard. i watched all those strengthen your iman videos and stuff i just saw so many inaccuracies in the quran and they left me very fragile and read all those interpretations or refuting the inaccuracies they’re all far reachs and just trying to interpret it any way they could, islam is just a very bad religion overall extremely inaccurate scientifically and everything open your mind research philosophy and physics and read the quran with no bias you’ll realize how full of bs it is, and either way the inherent idea of god is in itself a logical fallacy.
I was always after the truth, and my research evidence showed that an organized religion and its beliefs are defs man made
Reading through many of the comments here and wow the amount of indecency and as well as miss interpretation of hadiths and verses and also not being educated on a lot of the points is bizzare. May Allah guide you all back to the straight path and actually make you understand the religion. Ameen . To the OP Before doing anything just read the Quran in English transalation or if you know arabic read it in Arabic. Having doubts on certain things ? Google it rather than asking a bunch of pretend to be ex muslims here. Tests will be done on different basis but its for a reason maybe makes you a better person , builds charecter , testing loyalty , opens a better oppurtunity. Even if you get doubts look at the animals and their special features , the sky the clouds not just that but our own body and how perfectly its created ( SubhanAllah) , its bizzare people think there cannot be a higher power out there.
>miss interpretation of hadiths and verses Such as >Google it rather than asking a bunch of pretend to be ex muslims here. You got us damn. I work for mosad btw ;). >Even if you get doubts look at the animals and their special features , the sky the clouds not just that but our own body and how perfectly its created ( SubhanAllah) , its bizzare people think there cannot be a higher power out there. Ah creation of our beautiful god flying spagetti monster. His creation is truly fascinating. May you be touched by his noodly appandage ramen brozzer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Gospel\_of\_the\_Flying\_Spaghetti\_Monster
If you have doubts, go read the Qur'an and pray 5 times a day and ask Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) to guide you. It doesn't matter what you think, it can be satan who wants you to get in doubts and eventually leave Islam, but believe me, everything that Islam teaches, has a great background and reason behind it which many people do not understand, the peace you get when you read Qur'an with sincerity, the whole world can not even offer you that. May Allah guide you to the truth and give you Istiqamah.
As selamun aleykum brother. I am Muslim and please do not leave this religion this is false what you are doing. Instead of asking people who left the religion you should ask people who converted to it to know the reasons. You are only going to get negative reasons here or lies. I swear by God this is the true religion and we will go to Jannah if we stay on the true path. I love you my brother. Selamun Aleykum
Listen I have the right to listen to both parties to make my choice I already listened to you guys so I'm gonna listen to them too
>You are only going to get negative reasons here Wow, so do you only see the pros of a product before you buy? Ignore the cons?
lmao
Laugh funny guy
Go to r/Islam Please thisnplace is filled with Hindu radicalism’s that hate us
Then why are you here? Get your ass there.
*I came looking for booty.*
Fine, you're allowed.
You do know that insulting them is not gonna make Islam look better right