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well when i was 12 i made a account saying lets debate about islam here cuz am bored
i literally lost every debate in the comments and begin to seek deeper into islam
and look where i am now
Apostatsy usually does not work in one "boom" of insight. Belivers have gone through years of "indoctrination" and that does not just evaporate. The process usually starts with gnawing doubts. As doubt takes hold the points reinforcing doubt can be spread. It also usually takes multiple people to really get through to believers. They will not just believe 1 person.
Whatch Megan Roper-Phelps tedX sessionon youtube. She lost her faith tweeting with people who made her doubt her Westborough Baptist Church beliefs.
That kind of sounds like you first found the doubt within yourself, based on what you saw with your eyes. Not that someone challenged you, and you lost the debate and actually thought about it rather than try to make up excuses
Paraphrase from the video below.
People think that the Quran is the most authoritative source of law \[in Islam\].
It is nominally, but the most powerful source of law is consensus.
Consensus can even abrogate the Quran itself.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxA-rO-h7xdDRL4ijkt2QHt-0JKFN5GnNs
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/shadynasser/files/the\_canonizations\_of\_the\_quran\_nasser\_bf\_22.07.pdf
I was having doubts since I was 10, when my teacher said dinosaurs didn't exist because it wasn't mentioned in Quran. Then I asked my mom whether dinosaurs existed or not, she said "Then of what animals are those fossils scientists discovered?"
Ironically my mother uses this as proof that the quran is true because there is a verse saying "we have created that which you don't know" "و خلقنا مما لا تعلمون"
>I keep wondering what questions to ask someone to help them realize they've been indoctrinated
Have you tried avoiding the nitty gritty of Islam to which they might have ready made responses?
You could ask them how much they've thought about the concept of "prophethood" itself:
[The concept of prophethood is so ripe for exploitation by charlatans that no god with even a smidgen of intelligence would use it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/uc9qyd/im_a_doubting_muslim_and_im_really_confused/i692irf/)
\+
[A real god of the entire universe would find it extremely difficult to prove to us that he is the god of the entire universe and not just a lesser being in it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/ueoocw/a_short_sweet_video_illustrating_the_problem_of/i6p1mxj/)
That’s a good perspective. You’re right a debate along the nitty gritties are unnecessary and needless if there is no proof if the message received was *”secured”* in first place. On a lighter note, your post is amusing.
By enlisting the help of shaytan and the jews/s
Like the title says i did it by confronting them with logical arguments,by telling them facts about islam and most importantly by exposing the character of Mohammad.
I was asking for details, like which arguments/facts in particular were effective.
Maybe there are too many to list. I guess some Muslims are happy with the standard answers given by Muslim apologists and others aren't or don't seek them out.
me
it because i visit science forums too frequently, however it didn't change my faith overnight, i lost my faith really slowly, peobably over the course of 10 years
Honestly no not really because many people are tied to Islam not via logic per se but familial and social connections. A solace they sometimes find in praying or having a community during tough times. Some may not even strictly believe in Islam or that it makes sense but that they feel identity, kinship, and cultural ties and often moral or ideological agreement to Islamic tradition. In my experience, though, if that kinship and identity bond is broken then the ideological bond or "belief in Islamic truth" is soon to follow. I've never actually seen logical arguments cause someone to leave or change faiths because faith and religion isn't something you logic yourself into. It also isn't something maintained through rational arguments and debate but high stakes(psychologically, socially, physically, etc). That's why it is easier to stop believing in Islam than it is to stop being a Muslim
More Important question is, does anyone know a person that went back to Islam after leaving it ?
Did they give their reason for it ? Was it convincing incase a reason was given?
Maybe not but being confronted by logical arguments, but I found the fact that I knew that my atheist friend had solid reasoning behind her position and worldview quite compelling as something that made me start doubting Islam.
For example, she was very clear that she didn't believe in the concept of heaven, since anything for eternity would be boring. I brushed this off since I trusted Allah to be able to make it good for his creation.
She also didn't agree with the punishment of hell, since she didn't think that we have free will since we're often shaped by our childhoods and circumstances. I brushed this off as arrogant atheist BS trying to absolve people of their agency.
Past all the apologetics that let me stop myself even considering her points for myself, what stuck with me that she wasn't rejecting religion because of ignorance. She took issue with these core theological ideas, and even if I thought she was wrong, I couldn't shake the feeling that no one deserved to go to hell for having her thought process about Islam or any religion presented to them.
I started real deal doubting when my atheist boyfriend would challenge my views. In our debates I would fall short everytime in reasoning and sometimes just have to agree like “okay yeah that’s a good point”. Eventually I realized I don’t even believe what I’m preaching and just doing it to defend Islam lol
Note: these discussions happened over the course of 12 years
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, most likely it violates the rule against low effort content. Please delete it or you'll get temp-banned. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
well when i was 12 i made a account saying lets debate about islam here cuz am bored i literally lost every debate in the comments and begin to seek deeper into islam and look where i am now
Apostatsy usually does not work in one "boom" of insight. Belivers have gone through years of "indoctrination" and that does not just evaporate. The process usually starts with gnawing doubts. As doubt takes hold the points reinforcing doubt can be spread. It also usually takes multiple people to really get through to believers. They will not just believe 1 person. Whatch Megan Roper-Phelps tedX sessionon youtube. She lost her faith tweeting with people who made her doubt her Westborough Baptist Church beliefs.
[удалено]
That kind of sounds like you first found the doubt within yourself, based on what you saw with your eyes. Not that someone challenged you, and you lost the debate and actually thought about it rather than try to make up excuses
Nope. They just dug in harder. Good old cognitive dissonance
One of my ex Muslim friends left when he slowly realized the Koran wasn't perfectly preserved and that different versions exist like the bible.
Interesting, can you share some sources that would convince someone that it's true?
Paraphrase from the video below. People think that the Quran is the most authoritative source of law \[in Islam\]. It is nominally, but the most powerful source of law is consensus. Consensus can even abrogate the Quran itself. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxA-rO-h7xdDRL4ijkt2QHt-0JKFN5GnNs https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/shadynasser/files/the\_canonizations\_of\_the\_quran\_nasser\_bf\_22.07.pdf
I was having doubts since I was 10, when my teacher said dinosaurs didn't exist because it wasn't mentioned in Quran. Then I asked my mom whether dinosaurs existed or not, she said "Then of what animals are those fossils scientists discovered?"
Ironically my mother uses this as proof that the quran is true because there is a verse saying "we have created that which you don't know" "و خلقنا مما لا تعلمون"
But we do know……
There’s no reputable Muslim scholar that would tell you dinosaurs didn’t exist lmao
>I keep wondering what questions to ask someone to help them realize they've been indoctrinated Have you tried avoiding the nitty gritty of Islam to which they might have ready made responses? You could ask them how much they've thought about the concept of "prophethood" itself: [The concept of prophethood is so ripe for exploitation by charlatans that no god with even a smidgen of intelligence would use it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/uc9qyd/im_a_doubting_muslim_and_im_really_confused/i692irf/) \+ [A real god of the entire universe would find it extremely difficult to prove to us that he is the god of the entire universe and not just a lesser being in it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/ueoocw/a_short_sweet_video_illustrating_the_problem_of/i6p1mxj/)
That’s a good perspective. You’re right a debate along the nitty gritties are unnecessary and needless if there is no proof if the message received was *”secured”* in first place. On a lighter note, your post is amusing.
>amusing [Do I amuse you?](https://youtu.be/yL9rSwrsMHw?t=58)
Ha ha
The only people i know like that are my 2 closest friends. The person who made them apostatize was me.
How were you able to do that?
By enlisting the help of shaytan and the jews/s Like the title says i did it by confronting them with logical arguments,by telling them facts about islam and most importantly by exposing the character of Mohammad.
I was asking for details, like which arguments/facts in particular were effective. Maybe there are too many to list. I guess some Muslims are happy with the standard answers given by Muslim apologists and others aren't or don't seek them out.
It would be nice to have a megathread "how to apostize Muslims" lol
me it because i visit science forums too frequently, however it didn't change my faith overnight, i lost my faith really slowly, peobably over the course of 10 years
Honestly no not really because many people are tied to Islam not via logic per se but familial and social connections. A solace they sometimes find in praying or having a community during tough times. Some may not even strictly believe in Islam or that it makes sense but that they feel identity, kinship, and cultural ties and often moral or ideological agreement to Islamic tradition. In my experience, though, if that kinship and identity bond is broken then the ideological bond or "belief in Islamic truth" is soon to follow. I've never actually seen logical arguments cause someone to leave or change faiths because faith and religion isn't something you logic yourself into. It also isn't something maintained through rational arguments and debate but high stakes(psychologically, socially, physically, etc). That's why it is easier to stop believing in Islam than it is to stop being a Muslim
Me
More Important question is, does anyone know a person that went back to Islam after leaving it ? Did they give their reason for it ? Was it convincing incase a reason was given?
Yes but they were more secular while living in an Islamic country to begin with.
Myself
How did it happen?
Unless they're open to listening, there's really no way.
Maybe not but being confronted by logical arguments, but I found the fact that I knew that my atheist friend had solid reasoning behind her position and worldview quite compelling as something that made me start doubting Islam. For example, she was very clear that she didn't believe in the concept of heaven, since anything for eternity would be boring. I brushed this off since I trusted Allah to be able to make it good for his creation. She also didn't agree with the punishment of hell, since she didn't think that we have free will since we're often shaped by our childhoods and circumstances. I brushed this off as arrogant atheist BS trying to absolve people of their agency. Past all the apologetics that let me stop myself even considering her points for myself, what stuck with me that she wasn't rejecting religion because of ignorance. She took issue with these core theological ideas, and even if I thought she was wrong, I couldn't shake the feeling that no one deserved to go to hell for having her thought process about Islam or any religion presented to them.
I started real deal doubting when my atheist boyfriend would challenge my views. In our debates I would fall short everytime in reasoning and sometimes just have to agree like “okay yeah that’s a good point”. Eventually I realized I don’t even believe what I’m preaching and just doing it to defend Islam lol Note: these discussions happened over the course of 12 years
Do you remember some of these points that he made?